Manchester United Banter Archive February 16 2014

16 Feb 2014 21:54:40
Long time reader, first time poster. Am from the tiny dot on the world map called St.Lucia and proud to be a Manchester United Fan. I've been a fan for 13 years now and continue being a fan until death do us part. I know we're going through a rough patch right now but I have faith that things will get better whether it be with moyes or another manager. This season reminds me of the 2004 season when mourinho first came on the scene with Chelsea. Everyone thought their dominance would of lasted forever but we came back to show our class. So have faith fellow red devils.

{Ed007's Note - Welcome to the site but can you please register before posting in future, thanks.}

Where abouts in st Lucia? What a lovely island.

Ed, I thought you could only post if you had signed in? every time I go to make a post it makes me sign in.

{Ed007's Note - Sometimes (I have no idea why, sorry) while people are typing their post they get logged out and their post still comes through to us.}

16 Feb 2014 18:56:15
I don't know why there's suddenly been a love in with kagawa. He's never done anything that would earn him a place in the team even when he's been played as a number 10! I'd much rather see januzaj play ahead of him as he's already twice the player kagawa is!

Hmm 2 time Bundesliga winner and Bundesliga player of the year or an 18 year old with 6 months professional football under his belt, I see where your coming from.

Or maybe we could not make sweeping generalisations.

Most of our best performances this season, such as Leverkusen away, have come with Shinji at No 10.

It's a bit harsh because Kagawa hasn't really had a proper run as a number 10. Last season was his first in a new league and he showed glimpses, but this year he just hasn't been given a chance. However, when he has played he has offered very little, and even he admits that he has been well below par.

Ultimately, after buying Mata and offering Rooney a new contract, I can't see him at the club next year. No doubt he will thrive again in a team that plays to his strengths, but it won't be for us.

I disagree Fredo, when Kagawa plays in a central role, he looks a very good player:intelligent, skillful, aware and excellent touch.He has been played out of position too much, he has been injured and he has needed time to adjust.Who would you rather:Welbeck?Young?Nani?If he leaves he'll go to a team were he will be played in his proper position and look quality.Also, the players and formation around him has not been great has it?He's a cracking player and I hope he gets a proper chance and comes good
The Big Lewandowski

If Moyes was going to use him he would have by now!

Maybe he is too lightweight for the premiership and never will reach his bundesliga form over here, but it will be a massive shame if we never know for sure because he never had a run in his best position.
I also think though that he should have perhaps shown a bit more at times even when played out of position considering how good a player we know he is.

Fredo

I completely agree with you mate, he's had plenty of chances.
He's even had chances playing at no 10 and done absolutely nowt.
Some people are obesessed with him because he won the Bundesliga and had two good seasons at Dortmund.
Get rid, get some money for him or at least tempt Dortmund with a swap plus cash deal for Gundogen or Matts Hummels.

16 Feb 2014 18:33:26
Ed do you think Fellaini will be staying past the summer? He doesn't seem to fit in with the squad.

{Ed004's Note - Yes}

He's been out since November!

Is that meant to be a joke?

If you believe one if the fanzines he gets laughed at by some of players because he us so crap and robotic in training. Want him to be good because he is one of us now but not a player I particularly wanted us to sign especially for the amount we paid.

Pancho: I read that as well and it got me thinking. The fanzines have got good info on the club (and it's where the media get a lot of 2nd hand stories from)

The Utd fanzines have, in the past, been about 65% accurate in their reports so for what it's worth I'd put money on it.

16 Feb 2014 16:52:31
Hi Ed, would you happen to know if Kagawa is actually in Moyes's plans or if he may be an outgoing come Summer? Is the player unsettled?

There is probably interest from Dortmund who would be keen to take him back I assume.

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - At this time, I really don't know if Dortmund would want him back nor if Moyes plans to keep him.}

16 Feb 2014 17:05:36
If two of my favourite players Chicharito and Kagawa leave in the summer (that's real quality leaving there) then I have three realistic targets in mind to replace them (Reus being the unrealistic one). I think it would be a fight between Lucas, Griezmann or Muniain and to be honest, I really don't know what my preference would be. Probably Muniain or Griezmann, I think they have the potential to be truly world class. Does anyone know much about them or have any preferences?

Griezmann would fit well into the EPL. Muniain could struggle, as could Lucas. I think something could be done with PSG as he isn't doing great there.

I think that all three are accessible. Muniain was brilliant against us in the Europa League, really classy. And I think that the days of these players struggling in the EPL have gone, look at Mata, Silva etc - hardly big blokes and not much different to Muniain. I'd say on balance that Muniain is the one, the fact he can play as a striker if need be too is appealing. He is also used to playing high pressured, fast paced football which fits into Moyes philosophy.

Yes but can he cross?

I have no idea, but no one else on the team can so does it matter LOL.

We'll make him cross!

16 Feb 2014 14:28:04
Is it true that Evra has got a one year extension as part of a clause in his contract? If this is the case and he stays then we can only assume that Shaw is the one that we have earmarked - he will learn from Evra for a year, play a lot, get helped out and then take over from him. This is what I am hoping for anyway!

{Ed002's Note - Whatever Evra's contract says has nothing to do with Shaw.}

I'm not saying it has anything to do with how transfer, but I think that might be a plan.

Shaw will be on his way to Chelsea I expect along with maybe Cavani in the summer. That is if Ed can confirm if cavani's reps approached Chelsea?

{Ed002's Note - They spoke to Chelsea about possible options if his issues in Paris cannot be resolved. PSG will not be keen to sell and I rather suspect will want to get Hazard involved in any deal - which Chelsea won't want to do. Do not be surprised to see involvement from Real Madrid if they cannot get their first or second choice strikers. They also might be of interest to Cavani and may include Benzema in a deal which will appease the fans of PSG.}

Fresh, Shaw is already a better LB than Evra is. Evra could learn from Shaw.

Evra would act as a mentor though, no doubt, that's what the old players at our club are expected to do - nurture those beneath them. Evra's experience would help Shaw no end, even if Evra can no longer perform like he used to he still has the know how to pass on.

Evra would sulk that he isn't playing and that would cause friction for the new LB. Evra has been a great servant for MU and a great player for 50% of his MU career, but he needs to go. It's LONG overdue.

I still think he could have a role to play, as a background influence. I think its either choose to accept that or move to Monaco / Inter. I hope we get Shaw and he gives him a hand for a year, I think it would help. Of course Shaw would be first choice. I think its a less riskier strategy than buying Shaw and having Buttner as back up anyway.

Syd, how could you possibly know that Evra would sulk?

I read that the clause means we have to offer him a new deal, if he were to stay he'd probably have to take a pay cut.

I read that the clause means we have to offer him a new deal, if he were to stay he'd probably have to take a pay cut.

Just go for a clean break. From the way he's playing it looks as if he's made his mind up anyway.

16 Feb 2014 13:35:15
rvp & rooney should both stay. what moyes need to do is to get them competing
whoever performs bettet should start. therez a reason we have substitution in a match. we should opt for only one striker. janujaz mata and kagz r all intelligent footballer who can interchange and create for any of the striker. they r all equally good at converting as well. we need to mix up our play a little bit. its our predictability that is our problem. add that with a lil bit of low confidence.

Neither of them would want to play second fiddle

16 Feb 2014 11:50:31
What has rooney done to deserve 300k a week ok he is a good player but 300k making him the most expensive hmmm not to sure about that and I hope we cover lb cb cm dm and rw in the summer

Perhaps the club is considering the cost of replacing Rooney in comparison to what it would take to keep him? No doubt he adds much value to "brand" Manchester United.

I think the figures reported in the media are exaggerated and a lot of his salary will be performance related bonuses.

Rooney will NOT be earning £300k per week. That is a story fabricated by the papers for sales.

I hope it is because he is 28 turnin 29 and to be honest I dnt think many other clubs would be interested in rooney

RF, his contract is based on performance related bonuses and that could be part of the issue. SAF wanted him to be a central midfielder, it seems Moyes has been considering it too with Rooney dropping back at times this season, but if he was to become a midfielder he wouldn't score as much, meaning less money. Rooney likes scoring goals, he is a goalscorer and with his salary based on scoring goals, he will want to play as a striker. Clearly Rooney wants to remain a striker, hence the reason Moyes will not drop him into the hole where he is best.

I don't believe Rooney's salary is bonus based as you think. Would you agree to a contract where it's dependent on service from our crap midfield and wingers.

I don't believe Rooney's salary is bonus based as you think. Would you agree to a contract where it's dependent on service from our crap midfield and wingers.

Supposedly Rooney has a £160k a week basic salary. The rest is incentive based bonuses.

16 Feb 2014 11:05:14
It is quite clear that Moyes worships the ground that Rooney walks on so will never sell him and reports have already surfaced that he has signed a new deal. I also am not convinced by these RVP rumours, his agent has said that he wants to retire here so that is also a good sign for him staying. This still leaves Moyes with a HUGE headache though, how does he get the best out of these players? I am really struggling to formulate a system. What we ideally need is Rooney, RVP, Mata, Januzaj and Kagawa on the pitch - our 5 best players by a long way. The only way to do that is play the 4-1-4-1 and have no fixed positions, but I think that would terrify Moyes as it would be so far out of his comfort zone - that is what Pep would play if he was here though.

One saving grace may be that RVP is getting older and will need to pick and choose him games a little more - this would mean that Rooney can play up top with the three behind him. But for me, we need Kagawa on the pitch. I read a tactical analysis of Kagawa against Leverkusen and he completely ran the show, pulling the strings from an advanced midfield position. The likelihood is though that one will have to be dropped at all times, and Moyes doesn't favour Kagawa and probably never will even though he would link up with Mata the best.

I must admit, if it was up to me I would probably have to bite the bullet and the fan backlash and sell Rooney, it would advance the club. But Moyes will never do that. The only solution is probably a 4-2-4 with Fellaini and Carrick holding, Rooney and RVP up top with Mata/Kagawa/Januzaj having free roles to drift. That's the only way I see this squad of players working.

Interesting post that man I think your right about having to play mata rvp rooney kagawa and januzaj but I would play them in a 4-1-2-3 with carrick holding and mata and kagawa playing just ahead of him with rooney rvp and januzaj all interchanging up top a bit like teez rooney and Ronaldo did back in 2008 but like you said I can't see moyes being that bold either. it's also a shame h doesn't have any faith in kagawa because it seems like our best performances this season have happened when he has played in the centre. so in conclusion what i'm saying is moyes needs to play kagawa in centre mid with mata and we will be unstoppable imo

Agreed that it could be effective, and we would have a lot of possession. Moyes would never do something like that. The best that we can hope for is a 4-2-3-1 that's fairly narrow, start Mata on the rights of it, Rooney on the left of it with Kagawa through the middle. Then have Januzaj et al to rotate with. I can't see it though unfortunately - I think Kagawa's days are numbered and he will be used in a deal with Dortmund for Gundogan and hopefully also Reus.

16 Feb 2014 13:34:56
Carrick on his own in midfield with two players infront that aren't that defensive we'd get destroyed. Teams walk through us now. The 1 would have to be Vidal to stand a chance.

Some really good, insightful comments regarding Kagawa (rightfully getting a bit of recognition) and how Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj and Rooney could/should line up. I think the potential of that attack is incredible. I think van Persie is the odd one out. Think back to how Dortmund played with Kagawa and Lewandowski, they were telepathic and I believe Ferguson wanted to buy Lewandowski and play him with Kagawa at United and offload Rooney. Things haven't quite gone to plan unfortunately, as I would of loved to have seen that partnership at United. And no, I'm not a Rooney hater. It's all about the team and how they play and represent the United ethos.
If the midfield is strengthened, ( I don't like the prospect of Carrick being the holding midfielder in this set up) and a left back and a centre back and the defense can start playing a higher line, then we could start challenging.
But do you think Moyes can deliver? I just don't think he has the ability or technical know how. But who knows. It's a funny old game after all.

The Big Lewandowski

I would say that Rooney is the odd one out, RVP is more like Lewandowski and a far superior striker. He would be ideal with Kagawa, Mata and Januzaj behind him, but I think that the changes of that are slim as Rooney by default for some reason takes one of those spots.

Agree in principle Fresh but I think that van Persies age and fitness issues tied in with the fact that he looks an unhappy player indicates he might leave or want to.But you're right Fresh, in a perfect world, that formation is world class
The Big Lewandowski

16 Feb 2014 08:12:49
Ed is there any truth to the van persie rumours please

{Ed002's Note - RTP.}

I have and tried the search but I can't see an answer off yourself

{Ed002's Note - Read yesterday's posts then.}

16 Feb 2014 09:48:28
I've read a quote from his agent saying he was very happy here and will likely finish his career here, anyway if I had it my way i'd keep van Persie and sell Rooney if I had to pick one because he's twice the striker Wayne is IMO

Hop on the rumor page. The expectation right now is that Van Persie will stay, but if he asks to leave things might change.

Thanks for the answer Ed002

Ed002, good morning, there are reports from the Times today claiming Evra can trigger a clause in his contract forcing MU to give him an extra year. Do you know if this is accurate? I cannot bare another season with Evra at LB. The last three have been enough for me to pull all of my hair out. It will be difficult for MU to compete for a top notch LB with Evra in the squad and on the wage bill. Do you have anything on this? Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - I don't know if there is such a clause but others have had similar clauses. It is not uncommon for a club to buy the clause out then let the player leave on a free allowing them to get a better signing on fee elsewhere.}

Thanks Ed. One more season of Evra and I think I will be bald.

You are already bald syd! Not much left on that old head of yours mate. Who are you trying to kid?

16 Feb 2014 07:48:29
Do we have any interest in Miranda? Tall girl though dives a lot. I do of course mean Joao Miranda from Madrid.

16 Feb 2014 00:28:55
GAGUS, I compared they're playing style.

Which is exactly the same, start out wide left, drift into the gaps between fullback and CB.

I never said he was as good or had achieved the same accolades.

but as usual mate, you just hear what you want.

The Moon.
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Yeah sure, I'll have a beer.