Manchester United Banter Archive February 16 2015

16 Feb 2015 23:06:24
Davie Moyes's signings (Felliani in particular, who was slated by all) are fast becoming key players in our team. Not bad from a guy who had no idea what he was doing and completely out of his depth.

It's a funny old game.

16 Feb 2015 23:53:49
Yes I thought juan mata had his best game for a while tonight. Which other signings other than Fellaini who was awful under moyes played well tonight?

A post that says it isn't Lvg but Moyes we have to thank this morning for a win. Let's look at Moyes major signings. Mata can't command a regular place, bought for £37m for a position we didn't need to buy for. Then Fellaini, the simple issue last season is that Moyes, having had him for years, knew his best position but was too scared to play him in it. Moyes knew how Fellaini could play but also knew there would be criticism of playing him that way and bottled it. LvG has recognised Fellaini's attributes and doesn't care what people think, uses him appropriately. So our thanks to jmb as we can now glaringly see the difference from last years Fellaini to this years, managerial bottle.

It is easy to forget that Fellaini was a key player for Everton a couple of seasons ago. Last year he seemed lost and overwhelmed in our side but this season I think he's certainly found his niche in the United line up.

17 Feb 2015 02:07:44
GDS - I was more alluding to Felliani here. I think you'll find under Moyes Felliani played the best football of his career at Everton so that's a horrible statement for you to make.

Herrera and Shaw could effectively be classed as Moyes signings as it was him and Woodward who earmarked them.

As for Juan Mata he is our best technical player and has not been utilised properly at all by LVG. Another talented player being wasted this season like Falcao, Di Maria and Januzaj.

Please GDS think before you post mate.

17 Feb 2015 05:31:14
Red Man are you are so far in the 'LVG is the best thing to happen since sliced bread camp' you can't give out a little praise at all to anyone else? When LVG does something well I praise him as I do everyone else whether that be Moyes, Fergie or whomever.

Mata and Felliani I discussed above and like I said Herrera and Shaw were signings earmarked by Moyes not LVG.

It gives a good insight into your anti Moyes psyche (or vendetta) that you can't even give him one little plaudits. Shame.

Red Man - managerial bottle, you must be talking about the manager who admits that Rooney's best position is up front and then plays him in midfield, the manager who plays a right winger at right back, the manager who plays an out of form RVP no matter what, the manager who sits one of our best midfielder on the bench and plays a striker in midfield, I see what you mean by managerial bottle.
If LVG has such managerial bottle we will no doubt see Rooney and Fellani playing up front for most of the rest of the season, I won't hold my breath.
By the way I was never a Moyes fan but don't buy into the constant criticism of him, as for LVG I don't see him as quite the genius you do and will give him time like I was prepared to do with Moyes.

17 Feb 2015 06:58:07
I love the fact u seemingly found abuse in my post but then write 3 baiting other jmb, funny old page this one.

17 Feb 2015 08:02:05
I wouldn't say Mata or fellaini have become 'key' players tbh. Calling Shaw and Herrera Moyes signings is a bit of a stretch too, the club were interested in both pre Moyes.

17 Feb 2015 08:19:36
I've just read JMB's 3 posts again this morning and they are quite clearly a wind up, I can't believe I bit last night at such a ridiculous post. There was no need for any mention of moyes and the whole statement is untrue, so wasn't even worth a reply.

If you think Fellaini was good under moyes last season JMB then you are wrong, but again, I think this whole post was just trolling for a reaction and I am annoyed I gave you one.

Juan would you just drop this Moyes talk? If you are so into him then Sociedad await. For now we have LvG, hate him or love him we are stuck with him, so let's get behind the team!

Got to say I agree with Redman completely. If I had the choice, fellaini would never have been bought. As for Mata, I said 8 months ago that he doesn't influence games. Chelsea bought Fabregas for £34m and sold us Mata for £37m ! I know who I would prefer playing for our side, Fabregas any day.
While I have given lvg compliments and stick, I have struggled to read one positive post that JuanMbeard has posted re lvg!!
Listen, the football we're playing is not attractive, but we have to give this guy a chance, believe what you like, but he got barca to play the way they do now, he bought and promoted the core of the bayern side that have been so successful.
Any comparison with Moyes is just ridiculous. Just a little reminder, Moyes asking our team to hit 84 crosses against the tallest defender in the league last year of which only one was successful. That is the Moyes you need to remember. So please stop fantasising about Moyes as if he was some kind of untapped talent that we let go. He's had 14 years management in top flight and won NOTHING.

If moyes had played felliani up front he would of got slated.
Lvg can do no wrong in some peoples eyes

17 Feb 2015 09:20:02
Sorry Chris I don't understand.?

17 Feb 2015 09:30:37
Stop biting guys, it is clearly a wind up.

jred,

Again, for the millionth time, nobody has said lvg can do no wrong, but JMB is giving Moyes credit for something he didn't do, stop banging the 'LVG can do no wrong' drum, you've said it about 50 times now.

Nomidfield, I fantasise about Moyes a lot. He's wearing hot pants, stilettos and not much else.

So much bad feelings against fellow posters, remember we all have something in common here.
UNITED, so why are we always divided.
Its only different opinions.

17 Feb 2015 09:55:17
GDS - again read the post mate I said Felliani played his best football under Moyes at Everton. Who said anything about last season? Come on.

Nomid - If the board had backed Moyes then Fabregas would be in our midfield today rather than Chelsea's. Also if you look through my posts I have given LVG credit when credit is due but it so happens that is very seldom at the minute.

HB - you misquote me. I said 'becoming'. Felliani has been more key than Di Maria and Falcao combined this season.

Mbd - is that what you said last year? Or were you banging the Moyes out drum? Thought as much.

As soon as you mention Moyes in any positive light all the LVG fanboys start freaking out.

JRed - spot on mate. One rule for some another rule for others.

And I am not trolling I am just expressing an opinion. Is that forbidden on this page?

17 Feb 2015 10:28:30
Your original post said David Moyes signings, which is more than one.

Why are you talking about how Fellaini played at Everton? It means nothing.

Anyway, let's leave it there, the Sociedad page should be where people talk about Moyes, he is a minor blot / mistake in Man United's history that fortunately most people moved on from 9 months ago, we will never agree if you think Moyes was anything but out of his depth at United, last season was terrible and he made us a laughing stock, scousers came to Old Trafford with a 'David Moyes, Football Genius' banner and most ABU's were gutted when we sacked him as they could see what he was doing to our club.

17 Feb 2015 11:01:47
HERBIE, you always remind me of the hippy, surfer-dude turtle in Finding Nemo. That's a good thing, by the way.

17 Feb 2015 11:02:44
Jmb,

I didn't quote you though

Still disagree, fellaini has been useful at times but 'key' now or even in the future, no not for me.

Mata is the only other Moyes signing and he's far from key!

The rest just sounds like you're trying to prove a point about lvg/moyes, not sure there is a point to be made here.

Ajh,

Like the repeated scene out of I'm Alan partridge with the bbc executive?

Jred,

You don't like LvG do you? Just a hunch 😊

Gds
United decision to buy fellaini was slated by many of the above posters.
fellaini "wasnt united class and shouldn't wear the top ."
"Is moyes going to turn us into a long ball team " etc.

of course lvg plays him up front and every thing is ok , the very same people are defending the decision .

For some people lvg can do no wrong

Jmata
You need to be careful giving an opinion that could come across as negative or anti lvg .
Infact at all unbiased .

Let's deal with a couple of issues.

JMB
"Red Man are you are so far in the 'LVG is the best thing to happen since sliced bread camp' you can't give out a little praise at all to anyone else"
I have made it pretty clear that LvG was not my choice as manager but he did have a far far better pedigree than the previous incumbent. Then why should I give out praise to a failed sacked manager who we should not even be discussing the morning after a win and circa 9 months after he rightly left! The question is what is your agenda for constantly bringing him up and particularly at this time?

Mata, we all talk about needing pace in the team, buying strong pacy players then perhaps should realise that Mourinho has done some top business dealings, one of which was selling us Mata at that price when we lacked a true midfield general not another number 10. Moyes was not cute with that deal was he, wonder how much Mata would go for now? Very good player we overpaid for but not what we needed.
Moyes deserved no plaudits for getting us to 7th and taking us backwards, the question why you want to compliment him even now after a win is a more relevant question.

Keanooh
Repeat, I am no fan of LvG, however the man built teams at Ajax, Bayern and Barcelona so I cut him some slack here. Bottle is doing things his way and having the guts to change to plan B using Fellaini differently, something the previous incumbent did not dare do, after all Moyes didn't dare take a player off for fear of the crowd reaction. LvG may not make decisions we agree with but he makes them based on trying to win games and given his previous record deserves more time.

We keep getting people comparing the two managers and this OP even praising a failed sacked manager who did nothing for us but take us backwards. People can disagree but he got sacked by the board for it so praising him 9 months after his sacking is bizarre as is the constant efforts to compare him to LvG. I would be happy if people would not mention him again.

Honey
I don't like the double standards .
i was actually quite a fan during the 90s .
Its a bit like the double standards over rooney .
I also quite like to talk about football ,i think its ok to talk about the negative aspects of the game and still enjoy it and be a fan.

Just on lvg i gave my opinion on him during the summer i though it was a fair assessment and to be honest the season has pretty much played out the way i though .
It upset a few of the experts on the site at the time . But then again for many lvg can do no wrong and is a top top manager.
For me i think he us decent but was a top manager in the 90s .
His brand of football isn't great to watch and hasn't been for a while.
His munich team was painful on the eye.
But we have bought well and should get top 4.
I still don't believe he has a title in him tho

17 Feb 2015 12:02:06
I have no agenda Red Man I am just stating that LVG should not get as many plaudits as he gets by some on here. The fact you think I have an agenda is another intresting insight into the way you think though.

Noucamp that hippy turtle character was actually based on my lifestyle.
:-)

17 Feb 2015 12:59:32
I know that jred, tbf you have been very consistent in your views, which I respect.

Young has come good under LvG as well, oh wait he too must have been signed by moyes via fergie, right JMB?

17 Feb 2015 21:56:02
Young has come good because the system suits him. A system that doesn't suit most of our team. Would you rather have a fantastic Ashley Young or a fantastic Rooney or Mata or Falcao or Januzaj or Di Maria.

16 Feb 2015 21:33:49
Despite playing for one of our greatest rivals over the years, I would just like to thank, and congratulate, Mr Martin Keown for him impartiality during the commentary tonight.
Christ, I can't wait till we get back to winning ways and winning trophies. Not so I can gloat, just so I can enjoy the disappointment of those who !are taking such pleasure from watching United struggle. People like that pug faced cad Keown.

16 Feb 2015 23:13:47
It was the most embarrassing biased commentary I have ever heard. He found everything he could to have a go at united and you would have thought kevin davies was the best player ever to play the game.

16 Feb 2015 23:29:28
I usually like Keown, but my God he was hard to listen to tonight.

17 Feb 2015 01:08:38
I just found this definition of commentator on the Cambridge dictionary: A reporter for radio or television who provides a spoken description of and remarks on an event as it happens. The money that's pumped into the BBC and Martin Keown is the go to expert. Bring back FanZone.

17 Feb 2015 02:14:11
See his mother must be reading this.

17 Feb 2015 07:02:03
It was laughable, the quote of the match was, "well all the top managers I speak to." Got me thinking I wonder what top managers he speaks too!?

16 Feb 2015 21:44:46
Another example of how much better we look when the team has width. First hour we created nothing and looked like we'd struggle to get an equaliser. Ashley Young is sent on and we immediately have space because their defence is being stretched by our wingers. Herrera and Blind look like they could form a good partnership, and the defence has more protection because the wingers can track the opposition full backs.

It's not rocket science, but playing with wingers and genuine midfielders makes us look twice the team. No more chopping and changing, Rooney back up top, Herrera in midfield and Di Maria on the wing.

16 Feb 2015 22:10:10
Agreed 100%

Thought Herrera and Blind did well only thing I thought was Herrera had a weird first half, he Wasn't as mobile as he generally is,couldn't figure out where he was meant to be,him and blind just looked like they were getting in each other's way. Di'Maria looked like he was playing off the 2 of them and was there to pick it up and run with it. When we went flat 4 in midfield with Angel and Young on the wings Herrera and Blind were much better. Rooney played very well he showed desire to play upfront. Tony V was MOTM for me, worked his ass off all game, 1 silly mistake all game that I could see

16 Feb 2015 22:14:17
Was going to post something similar. Di Maria needs to play out wide all the while we don't have a fast moving, fluid forward line. You can tell even as the game went on that Blind and Herrera need to play together, they have a good understanding, find space, move the ball quickly and have good vision. Hopefully LvG stops f**king around and starts Herrera every game.

Also on a side note we desperately need a CB to replace Smalling and Jones, someone to partner Rojo who is looking like the only decent CB we have with any genuine chance of becoming a top quality player for us.

16 Feb 2015 22:17:47
For all the talk of fancy new formations, I always feel better when we play with wingers in a 442.

I've grown up with Gordon Hill and Steve Coppell, Andrei Kanchelskis, Giggsy, and Beckham.

Good wingers get you off your seat, and get the crowd going. Quick and direct.

And apart from against Barca in their prime, I always thought 442 worked fine in Europe too. None of the top European sides liked playing against English teams playing at Premier League tempo, compared to their walking pace style.

Sometimes we try to make this simple game, so bloody over-complicated.

Few thoughts / observations from tonight's game, in no particular order:

Never doubted for one minute we wouldn't win - Preston just weren't good enough in any area of the pitch.

Kevin Davies is a complete a$$e of a player. Never liked his cart horse style of play and should have been red-carded.

Signs of life tonight and against Burnley from DiMaria. He looks like he is finally settling in.

Shaw and Rojo should be fixtures in our back four for years - both are quick and defend very well.

Need a Smalling / Jones to step up and own the other CB spot - if they can't we need to buy a replacement.
I'd sell Evans right now!

Buy a RB in the summer - Clyne for me. Rafael needs to prove he can stay healthy and McNair is a good prospect.

RVP is done and Falcao is not worth $40million. So we need a top striker in the summer - question is who.
My choice would be a front man who can lead the line and has pace.

Place 5 in the middle - we have enough options - pick the best players - Rooney pushing in behind the striker with DiMaria wide.

I'd look at Reus / DePay in the summer too.

There is enough talent to build on with the core of players we have and the youth coming through.

IF LVG sticks to playing our best 11 we will finish in the top 3

Bring on Arsenal in the cup.

17 Feb 2015 02:21:12
Scotbos - a few of my thoughts on the points you've made.

First off I agree what you say about Davies, he was always an ugly player but like it or not he would fit right in with our long ball approach at the moment and that in itself is scary.

Di Maria I think was very wasteful time and time again in possession. He turns it on in small flashes but he has not convinced me this far that he is the man we should build around.

You say sell Evans now but you have to remember the lad is one of our own and we have very few of our own left at the moment. He's not the best player but he gives his all when he gets the chance. He is a committed fringe player who has been around the block. I hope he stays as backup.

Jones and Smalling on the other hand were purchased for large fee's and have yet to convince me of their ability. I'd rather see one of them moved on than Evans.

17 Feb 2015 09:18:03
JMB,

Kevin Davies would fit in with our long ball approach? You must be watching a different game to me, even when we put Fellaini up front we did not go 'long ball', none of the goals came from 'long balls' and Fellaini looked decent up top with his feet.

17 Feb 2015 10:00:31
Gds - did you watch us against West Ham or is that long wiped from your memory?

16 Feb 2015 21:41:54
I think lvg is finding English football a lot better than he thought.

I think he expected teams to sit back and admire them instead they are getting stuck in.

If lvg doesn't know his best team or formation how does he expect the team to play with any structure or confidence, most of them, are playing it safe with passes back or to the side, scared to give the ball away.

just watched the game tonight, we won that's the best I can say, the starting line up was devoid of ideas, ponderous, cue plan B send fellani up front again, several players not doing enough for me.

Arsenal next I'll be stunned if we beat them playing like this, i live in hope.

16 Feb 2015 19:17:42
Well we have the team most of us might have picked tonight, as long as its Rooney behind Falcao and not Di maria. We can only hope this brings some quality football that will make the manager stick to it.

And we're still playing rubbish.

16 Feb 2015 18:57:14
30 minutes till the draw whos everyone want assuming we get through?

i want arsenal or liverpool at home

16 Feb 2015 21:21:23
Well done. spb. Cheers for that! :)

Bit of a comedian are we noucamp?

16 Feb 2015 22:21:55
No. My point was, I wished you'd predicted a home tie against Bradford or Reading. No need to be touchy.

Wasnt be touchy, just got the wrong end of the stick :)

my apologies.

17 Feb 2015 00:51:27
No harm, no foul :)

16 Feb 2015 15:58:22
I seem to recall that the one thing about United of old was the unpredictability of the forwards' movement. The runs across the defence, and the interchanging of positions, made it impossible for defenders to fully prepare for the match.

The other thing I found interesting was a recent comment by Scholesy that SAF insisted he take risks, both in attempting the difficult pass, and making the runs. Yes, that often conceded possession, or left a player out of position in the event there was a swift counterattack, but the philosophy was basically we'll just score more goals than the opponents.

Win or lose, I think that's what we all seem to want, and expect, from a United side. Unfortunately, the financial stakes are so high today that qualifying for Europe seems to have become the more important than how we play. I have some sympathy for LVG because he doesn't have the defenders all the best United teams had.

Just for a second cast your mind back to the 2008 team. That is what we need to recreate and it is a model that would be just as effective now as it was then. I am talking more so about our Champions League formation here, not our League one.

We played with a front 3 of Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney. None of whom had a fixed position as such, one would come inside and the other would take his position on the outside. It was very, very good and very fluid.

The midfield area for me though was the key. We had a defensive midfielder in Hargreaves, Scholes with his amazing range of passing and Carrick was somewhere in between the both of them.

Now, what are we missing?

Well we still have Carrick, and Blind is similar in my opinion to Hargreaves. Is Herrera similar to Scholes? I'm not sure. A deep lying playmaker that can pick the passes in my opinion is what we are lacking, evidence of this is seen as LVG tried to make Rooney this deep lying playmaker. We are missing a Verratti or someone of that mold (not necessarily him). Someone that can make the cross field switches, chip the balls over the top, slide them through and burst into the box also. We are also missing flexibility and pace up front. Rooney, Di Maria and Falcao as a front three you would of thought could give us that dynamic movement, but it has been untested.

16 Feb 2015 18:06:42
Blinds actually similar to 2008 Carrick. Herrera is similar to 2004 Scholes. Its the Hargreaves we're missing. Which is what he said in the press conference.

Pogba or naingolan is what we're missing. And i wouldn't say no to modric.

We need a players like Reus and Verratti style to replace the the Schoels and Tevez of 2008 we have the rest off the players in the team now

16 Feb 2015 12:17:22
Onto tonight lads. What are we all going for?

What do we want to see in terms of the team tonight? I just want an attractive performance and a comfortable won. I would also like Wilson, McNair and Januzaj to get 90 minutes under their belt.

I'm going for a cagey 2-1 win for us. Probably Fellaini last minute from a corner.

I think RVP will be "rested" tonight with Wilson playing. Rooney still deep. Although I wouldn't put money on anything other than another borefest on the cards.

16 Feb 2015 12:51:27
I feel an away game against a League 1 side isn't where we are going to see an 'attractive performance' so I would imagine you are going to be disappointed. Fingers crossed for the comfortable win, need an early goal to silence their crowd and push on from there. 0-0 at half time and I imagine we could be in for a replay.

Were going to hammer them 4-0 with a world class performance with Falcao and RVP sharing the goals.

16 Feb 2015 13:40:44
i wouldn't expect a massive score line, regardless of how were playing games like this away from home are always difficult.

if we get through i want a nice OT quarter final against either liverpool or arsenal

16 Feb 2015 14:05:55
We will know before the game what is in store for the quarter final should we get through which I like.

I wouldn't expect fireworks. I suspect that one of RVP, Rooney or Falcao will be rested. Wilson should start, Januzaj too with McNair at right back again. I hope Shaw is fit to play. I just want to see an attractive performance with none of this boot it up field to Fellaini. Get Herrera on the pitch and in the game, push Rooney forward and see what happens from there.

Didnt know that thanks GDS2,

I want us to win. And I don't think you'll see an open game from us. Sorry, but this is cup competition and the aim is to get through to the next round.

What about starting Pereira.
He has been training with the first team all season and trained this Saturday too.
He recently played as a right-sided forward and grabbed a goal and an assist for U21s.
I would go with a very different formation tonight.
A 4-3-3 with
Mcnair Smalling Rojo Shaw
Fellaini Blind Herrera
Pereira Rooney Wilson

All of the front 6 are hard-working and I can see us winning by 3-4 goals with the above lineup.

PS Mata should not start today, he nevers plays well outside Old Trafford.

16 Feb 2015 17:02:27
Line up I'd like to see

DDG
McNair Smalling Rojo Shaw
Fellani
Herrera Mata
Young Rooney ADM

but I'm going for a line-up more like this
DDG
McNair Smalling Rojo Shaw
Januzaj Herrera Rooney Young
Wilson ADM

Whatever formation or selection. We will not win by 3 or 4. I expect a narrow win or a draw.

I think we will win big, think we will score 3.0.

16 Feb 2015 11:57:58
Arsenal have been quoted 40 mill for verratti surely he'd be better going to us? Get Rooney back up top and another CF? Maybe Ings, vietto, dybala or icardi? Also, chances of Varane??

16 Feb 2015 13:00:04
Ronnie - Other than Ings (who is alright but nothing special) we have zero chance of signing any of those you have mentioned in my opinion.

You should have a look through Ed002's posts of your interested in possible transfers.

17 Feb 2015 06:49:17
I'd love Verratti, he'd add the vision and composure on the ball we've missed since Scholes I think but last I remember Ed002 said Juventus wanted him, who knows what will happen with him now. Probably stay at PSG i'd imagine.