17 Aug 2011 23:41:24
Food for thought. maybe we are we focused too much on a goal scoring mid. maybe possesion was the biggest factor needing addressed. neither xavi or inesta are year in year out goalscorers. I think both achieved around the ten amount only once or twice. The rest less than half that. they are all about link up play possesion assists composure intellegence. we have cleverly and anderson.
ok your thinking they are not as good. but then neither were xavi or inesta outstanding early on. they had to have time blooding in. and look at the benefits they are reaping for the faith put in them.
think of the man city barce type goal. ok wba was a bit flat but early days. I thought we needed a goal mid but after looking at the barce boys a little closer. i'm becoming more confident that possesion was the more important. and that those boys can fulfill it. I thought another mid either of age or just plain outstanding for their club could help bring them on.
but if this is a great team in the making and not the finished article. Then surely as much game time to anderson and cleverly the better. Right? get them blooded in now so that safs last great team blooms just at the right time.
not being able to secure a mid might just turn out a blessing.
fletcher carrick cleverly giggs anderson with jones and maybe even park and some of pogba.
maybe alex is looking at that and with some justification is thinking this is ok. To me it looks like it misses a hard man and a goal scorer but tactically do we need them? barce dont. unless you think busquets is like makelele which he is far from. for them its possesion. I have to admit I'm stuck in the middle.
cons red
Manchester United Banter Archive August 17 2011
Use our rumours form to send us manchester united transfer rumours.
17 Aug 2011 23:08:43
redman
u r 100% correct and anyone that cant see that if we dont keep improving our rivals will and they will catch and then eventually overtake us to ensure this does not happen we need to aquire top quality players so that they can not only keep the trophies coming but also teach our young talent how to win and improve if we dont then we may end up firstly like arsenal with our best talent leaving and our youngster never achieving there full potential and that will in turn lead to us ending up going down the same road as liverpool and if anyone out there thinks it cant happen to us go ask an arsenal fan if they thought the fa cup win on pens in 2005 would be there last trophy and at the time they all trusted wenger and his youth policy and non spending stance now see where it has got them we need to address this before it becomes too much of a problem
soory for the long post bond but redmans post has been one of the best and thought provoking for a long time
onecut
17 Aug 2011 22:51:55
Watching barca and real and we haven't got a realistic chance in europe against either as our team stands. Come on fergie, we need sneijder or goetze or eriksen now. Either we got no money or we can't get these players to come to old trafford. I'm sure fergie knows best but I hope he is trying his best to get somone in like these players. I wwould also like tiote from newcastle for that tackling destroyer I think we need. What do you guys think ? KELO 77
17 Aug 2011 21:11:03
I am beginning to wonder if a few on here are becoming a little arrogant, too arrogant.
Talking about Nasri most have posted that if he wanted trophies he would come to us. Well we may well win trophies, we have a good recent record but trophies are no more guaranteed with us than they are elsewhere.
I would hope he or another class player would come to us given our very rich history , 76,000 crowd and to play at the highest level for the famous red shirt and with a better chance of winning a trophy than in most other teams. We should be able to pay them sufficient to make their decision based on those things however that may be the major problem, we dont.
Arrogance has a habit of biting you on the backside, I urge you all to look at Liverpool in 1990 being the classic example.
We sit and wait on the transfer window but actually Mick the Moston red made an important point last season. That is by winning the league it can be used as an excuse to claim we do not to need to strengthen, as said by many on here. That I believe would be a major mistake.
Let us stop the arrogance that if Nasri or anyone else "wants to win trophies" they will come to us. We need to look at why they, the world standard players, are not at this point coming to us. Is it our managers intransigence or has the money not been forthcoming either for fee or more likely wages?
Finally if Nasri goes to City, instead of deriding him and City, we better stop being arrogant because look what happened to Liverpool in 1990. Dont be arrogant enough to think it wont happen to us because whilst City spend their money on better and better players, we pay as much in interest as we do on transfer fees , this means we are at risk of a big fall.
So lets see what the youngsters do, can they become what we all hope? Actually hope is the key word, they have become our only hope and that adds even more pressure to them than before.
Red Man
17 Aug 2011 20:40:45
I am absolutely sick to th back teeth with this WS saga. Will he, won't he, he is, he isn't. If he was and he's not he can FROff for me. If he does fantastic al be the 1st one jumping about like a loo {Ed007's Note - Believe me mate, if it happens you will need to be quick to beat me for jumping about like a loony, I've already started and it's still clear as a the muddiest mud you could imagine, mixed with tar.}
17 Aug 2011 20:06:23
The NextGen competition starts tonight with Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Villa, Celtic, Barca and Inter all involved (that is just to name a few). This competition is a sort of 'Junior Champions League' and features players that are at under 19 level for their clubs.
I am gobsmacked that Manchester United have not decided to take part in this competition from an early stage and have instead decided to enter NextGen during forthcoming seasons if it progresses well. Considering the exciting talent we have in our academy (Will Keane, Morrison, Pogba etc.) wouldn't it have been ideal to test these players against other european clubs players, on a competitive and meaningful stage, instead of playing against sub standard and tactically inept opposition in the academy and under 19 cup competitions?
If we want our youngsters, and by our I mean English youngsters too, to learn how to pass and interact like the Spanish and Brazilian players, then surely we need to play against them from a younger age and in doing so adopt some of their skills and play to our own.
I for one will be taking an interest in this NextGen inaugural season and I hope that United don't pass up on the offer for next season.
17 Aug 2011 19:49:34
Celtic fan here and want to join debate on which team players wants to play for and if money comes into it. Just a thought but when Glasgow Celtic won the European Cup in 1967 most of the players were on a pittance by todays standards (£200 weekly top wage) But we had 11 players who played for the LOVE of the game and THEIR Club Glasgow Celtic. They played with a smile on their faces and entertained the football world. I defy anyone to name a more entertaining player than wee Jinky Johnstone or a more courageous one. These modern multi millionaire players have lost the love of the game that wee Jinky had and all they want is more money.
As to Man Utd being biggest club in world? If Celtic could get access to the television courage UTD get we would be way up there too with our massive Scots/Irish/American/Australian/South African/Canadian and rest of the world fans.
Glasgow Celtic colours the GREEN AND WHITE HOOPS are recognised instantly worldwide. How many teams play in red and white? hail hail timalloy
17 Aug 2011 17:34:45
Hi Ed & Sydney!
United is one of the biggest club- in terms of popularity, income, trophies, fans, etc. I am sure there are so many talents who wants to play for United. But why is it that the big names among footballer at the moment all dream to play for other clubs like Real or Barca (with all respect though i put them at par with United). We have even seen Fabregas who is contributing himself to get transferred to his dream club. Every year some big names are linked (or rumoured) with United, only to leave their fans in anticipation. Why is very difficult to bring one?
No doubt United has the biggest number of fans around the world. But i'm starting to doubt that it is not the dream or ultimate club among the footballers.
Do you agree?
GoEzManUnited {Ed007's Note - Sorry I took so long, I was thinking of an answer TBH, you took the time to put a well thought question so it warrants an answer. The only thing I can say is IMO it is down to money, plain and simple. The lifestyles of players these days is on par with movie stars really. I know of a foreign player up here that had to phone his club when the light bulb in his garage needed changed, he didn't know this, never even checked before lifting the phone! Players moan about weather etc but that is BS to me, it is money and when they have more than they know what to do with you get players like Tevez, he would ask for a transfer from Heavens XI because he didn't like harp music I reckon. This is just me talking as a supporter as there is all the politics and behind the scenes shenanigans but it still boils down to cold hard cash. I would have love to play for CFC and always said the only team I could EVER possibly leave them for was Utd (then a wee nest egg at Madrid in my 30s lol), but even that is BS, if Arsenal had came in for me and CFC agreed the fee as soon as I saw the wages etc I would be off, anyone who says otherwise is deluded. On a smaller scale I suppose there are players who leave or reject CFC and Rangers for lower echelons of the EPL, the Championship and smaller clubs lose players to League 1 etc, all again because of the financial side, seems better to have slogged away in the Championship than have a chance of winning the league, cups and playing in Europe every year. I know you all look down your noses at the SPL and I know it has it's faults but it is the same principle on a smaller scale (I think). Manchester United are the biggest team/club in the world to me, a bit bias I know but the only reason I can think of mate is really money. Sorry for the rant there and I hope it made sense. Syd, TK, etc .......}
17 Aug 2011 17:37:04
nasri close to 25million signing of city, money grabbing swine, according to sky sports in june he was our top target, what a load of rubbish that was.
17 Aug 2011 16:40:06
I am really gutted if the quotes from Inter are true. A marquee signing in the centre of midfield is definately a must this summer. Fletcher or Jones can perform the holding role quite easily but we need a playmaker, Carrick & Anderson have had ther chance and disappointed. I think CM is not the only place we need a new face in.. If SAF thinks Welbeck is a better choice to partner Rooney than Berba when Chico is unavailable I really do worry...Welbeck is a back up player at best as is Owen (when fit) Berba needs to be sold if he is not going to extend his contract and we need a new CF if he is going...I really hope there is a few suprises to come in the next fortnight otherwise we are going to struggle.
Salford Red"""
dear mr salford red
ngiak is sad to read your post
you have just undermined not only our players, but you have also undermined sir alex's rebuilding process
and sadly you have no faith in the players or the manager
by the way, just to make a statement,
ngiak TOTALLY disagrees with your assessment of all the players you mentioned
well if you are so disappointed in all things man united, there is always another louder and flashier team in manchester. they have just what you and fellow fans like you, ordered
gan
17 Aug 2011 15:33:52
arrigo sacchi done an article on the evolution of footbal and reckons that the next tactical step will to be to play with one big midfield no strikers, cb etc just midfield players who keep the ball. the argument was you dont need a cb if you keep the ball for 70-80% of the game.
does anyone else think this is what barce are trying to do could this be the future.
jred
17 Aug 2011 15:24:04
the way i see it is, barca have improved theyre squad greatly when it was already considerably better than ours with sanchez and cesc. city have improved theres greatly with aguero and we have just bought young players, granted i think young is great and phil jones and de gea are going to be top, but at the start of the window our main aim was to find a keeper which weve done and a cm. everyone else is improving their squad and we are staying stationary. i think cleverly is a good player, but were talking about needing to replace scholesy who was our linch pin, it is insanity to 'hope' that cleverly becomes world class, and waiting five years for him to develop, when he may not even become good enough...thats five years of a further weakened team. it. we need a world class centre mid
17 Aug 2011 15:08:42
to all those who still think utd have money to spend and dont think the glazers are using utd as as a cash cow just wait until they float 30% on the stock xchange to line there own pockets? when we are still buying young players and hoping they improve enough to sell on and not buying genuine proven talent everyone will finally see where all the moneys going? and it isnt on the squad the guvnor
17 Aug 2011 14:57:39
strange how gill as said for ages no worries utd happy with carrying the debt&cant be paid off, now the the rumours of a 25% sell off to asia stock market which raise whatever about of money, well surely the glazers as we know what there like would no way want to give up part of owning the club if didnt need to
so maybe its the beginning of debt catch up time for the glazers&will lead to the payoff there after,
they say rumours all they like but no doubt they will have looked into&who really believes Gill over anything concerning the Glazers
rem utd dont look at just the fee like fans do they go on the fee&length of contract wages total, De gea,jones,young could all in time be sold on for higher cash back or just some return, sneijder 35m &wages at 27 in 2 or 3 years is dead money, fergie said a while back didnt sign zola as age&5m was dead moneyhow wrong was thatlol
17 Aug 2011 14:51:42
Ive said it before but I really dont know why we dropped out of the Nasri saga, absolutely brilliant player and definitely would complete our transfers with the attacking presence he brings.
Haze
17 Aug 2011 14:24:02
Really getting bored of fickle fans turning on their own. This point is emphasised by all the criticism thrown at De Gea. Yes he has made mistakes. Brace yourselves lads, because he will make a lot more before the seasons end. Does that make him rubbish? Of course not. We didn't sign him to be the best keeper in the world this season. Very unlikely a 20 year old could reach those heights in a couple of games. I watch a lot of Spanish football and De Gea over the last two seasons has given a combination of superb displays as well as some disappointing mistakes. Sir Alex definitely knew this prior to the purchase. He is a work in progress and will be one of the worlds best in a few years time. He will improve year on year.
I am sure if you have been watching the game long enough you will know mistakes are a part of the game.
Spend 15 mins watching youtube and refresh yourself as to the number of mistakes made by very high profile keepers over the years just to get a little perspective.
I guess my main point is give him a chance, don't judge him too quickly. If you have only ever seen him play for us then you really don't have much to go on.
Let me leave you with one final example. I thought Neuer was superb in the first leg against us last year. He was also a very high profile purchase for Bayern. Has anyone seen his debut? (link below).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAAnPkhgoTw
Is he rubbish now? Or did he just make a mistake.
Have faith guys / girls. 20 here we come.
U-N-I-T-E-D F-O-R-E-V-E-R
17 Aug 2011 14:17:11
i dont understand? why oh why hasnt a new decent midfielder been bought? WS, to hell with him, now fergie usually has back up plans - well i hope damm well there is one or else were fooked or the quality of the reserves is damm good for a step up he must have SOMEONE in mind? dont let us down fergie, please
17 Aug 2011 13:47:11
DE gea young and jones 3 good signings , are they going to make us any better , prob not but they will maintain our current standard and i think this if what the glazers are looking for.
we won the league and got to the euro final , which is good and from a financial point great but there lies the problem.
Us fans want to be the best team in europe with the best possible team we can have, but i think the owners are prob happy where we are now , is there enough profit in making that step up from second best to first to justify spending the big money it would take to get us the likes of sneijder etc...
real barce city even chelsea are prepaired to spend to be no 1 the question is are our owners or are they happy with being second
jred
17 Aug 2011 13:26:31
Sneijder prepared for paycut
In an attempt to push through a move from Inter Milan to Manchester United, Wesley Sneijder is planning to slash his pay demands.
According to reports in the Sun, the 27-year-old is worried that his pay demands of £200,000 a week have frightened off the Red Devils, and is now willing to lower that by £60,000 a week.
However, that may still be too rich for United's blood, as it would make him the second highest paid player in their squad, behind Wayne Rooney on £250,000 a week.
Both clubs had previously agreed on a £35 million deal to bring Sneijder to Old Trafford, but that was scuttled when the Premier League title-holders were turned off by the midfield maestro's salary demands.
He expected the Red Devil's to return to the negotiating table, but was surprised at their lack of interest thereafter.
Manchester United have already splashed out around £50million on new signings like Ashley Young, Phil Jones and David de Gea - and this latest turn of events could spur Sir Alex Ferguson to spend even more towards the close of the summer transfer window.
17 Aug 2011 12:52:24
guys i keep seeing people writing about liverpools debt.
i couldnt care less if theres is more.
Clearly our is affecting our activity in the transfer market.
Bull$hit Fergie dont want Sneijder of course he does and Nasri for that matter and god knows who else but the simple fact is the Glaziers dont want to stump up the cash.
Simple as that.
Where as Liverpool have spent over 100million. And still looking to add to there squad.
What a let down this window has been.
i really wish those yan*y tw4ts would F**K off and stick with what other shi*e they have there greasy hands in.
Mr Angry.
17 Aug 2011 12:15:09
Talksport last night. Adrian Durham said watching CITY against swans was like watching BARCELONA.
17 Aug 2011 12:00:30
'Redeyedhector ywna'
You Liverpool fans are so naive, your current net debt is £123m, your gross debt is over £200m plus whatever you have spent this summer. So you are at least £250m in debt my friend.
Our gross debt is £477.7m. The only difference between our debt and your debt is our debt has high interest. Yours is nowhere near as high.
Sydney!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sydney your link proves that the acquisition debt has SINCE been cleared, the remaining debt is minimal as its repayment are £2m-£3m per year. Compared with our turnover that is a tiny repayment, FSG bought Liverpool at a bargain price and will build the Liverpool brand to see returns on their investment.
"The transaction values the club at £300m and eliminates all of the acquisition debt placed on LFC by its previous owners," it said, "reducing the club's debt servicing obligations from £25m-£30m a year to £2m-£3m." (David Conn, Guardian, 2010).
Liverpool Manchester United
Turnover: £164.2m Turnover: £278.5m
Operating profit: £24.9m Operating profit: £91.3m
Net debt: £261.7m (now approx. £37m) Net debt: £716.6m
Interest payment: £36.5m (now approx. £2m-£3m) Interest payment: £68.5m
(Independent.co.uk)
Christian Purslow, has claimed that the club's debt has come down to £237m.
£200m has SINCE been cleared leaving approx £37m net debt.
We no longer have cowboy’s running our club but clearly you do. Look at what Glazier is doing from a business point of view, yes he could clear your debt but would lose 25-40 percent of his company in the process and gain arguably nothing. It would be a far better business plan for him to pocket the money gained from this share sale, put the money in his bank account and earn the interest himself.
This financial gain would work twofold firstly he would be considerably better off, secondly with his own money (gained from this sale) he basically could underwrite your debt if muck hit the fan. He could then allow Utd fans to repay the remainder of HIS debts through your profits until they are cleared, then sell his remaining shares of the club and earn a massive profit on a debt free club, your money would make him extremely rich and his outlay is near enough zero. In essence he has removed that wealth from your club and given nothing, that money could have been used to make you into a superpower bigger than Barca. instead it has been leaked into his pocket.
Remember this, Liverpool got rid of their cowboys, your prawn sandwich munching fans seem to like to ball tickling someone who is clearly ripping you off.
K79
17 Aug 2011 11:55:56
Does anyone know how much debt we actually have now? My colleagues are pulling up sites and articles saying we still owe $1.4bn or £1.1bn. I thought the latest reports were thatt we only owed about £500m, yeah i know only
17 Aug 2011 09:12:15
Kaka will discuss options with MUFC and will have medical next tuesday.
17 Aug 2011 08:35:01
Breaking News
Mike Phelan told BBC that Vidic will only be missing for a week. Nemanja Vidic was thought to be carrying his injury into the game which only aggrevated it further and maybe will return against Arsenal.
RamoN 19
17 Aug 2011 08:33:36
Fabio revealed: "One day we deceived the coach.
"Ferguson had called Rafael to train then I went to the session instead.
"But I found it impossible to maintain the rate my brother was capable of at the time, and the coach said: 'Are you Fabio? He just smiled and give me a clip round the head'."
RamoN 19
17 Aug 2011 06:20:17
Sydney
Why would glazers pay off debt now they could just pocket the 500m
If they did pay the debt off we r no better off as the 45m would be taken in divs by them
When you gonna learn the glazers just care bout themselves and we ain't goin to be in better situation until they are out for good