Manchester United Banter Archive December 17 2013

17 Dec 2013 20:11:38
"Maybe some of the other managers haven't been as fortunate as I have. The best clubs have had stability over the years, if you look at Arsene Wenger the stability he's given Arsenal Football Club. I look at Sir Alex Ferguson and the stability he gave Manchester United and even to my own extent what happened at Everton Football Club."

A quote from our manager about stability. Definitely worth examining, so stability did exactly what for Arsenal and Everton, who have won what in recent years? Yes SAF had stability and continued success but is stability without success acceptable at Manchester United? The inference from the statement is that nirvana is stability and that is what defines the best clubs rather than success. Finally is it stability of the manager or the structure of the club which defines the best?

I tend to agree with you on most things Red Man.

But I just can't here, regardless of the trophies Arsenal have never fallen out of the top 4 even with the terrible squad they had over the past 6-7 years.

Arsenal have been incredibly successful when you consider they had to pay for a new ground and use a thin squad that talent wise is on par with our first XI.

Stability does eventually bring success providing the they bring in the right players.

now I don't want Moyes at United but I can tell you right now if he brings the right players to United they'll win the league for years to come.

Stability in a club does not necessary mean keeping the same manager, we all know SAF was unique, where as the great teams like Barcelona bayern and real change managers every 3/4 years but maintains stability and success.
I am all for giving Moyes a chance but have been far from impressed with our style of play and tactics so far.

Did you make the same point last year when the "sack race" was under way and Fergie made more or less the same statement word for word, even IIRC using the same 3 examples of himself, Wenger and Moyse? It's from the standard LMA playlist when one of their own is sacked.

YOUR inference may be that Moyse considers stability more important than success - but whether you wanted him, like him or not, give him credit for knowing the professional football business better than you or I do. He knows he will be given time but he also knows he must win trophies at United or time will run out.

"Success" is relative depending on the club you're at. At United it's trophies, at Arsenal certainly since they built the Emeroids it has been top 4 and no money on players. At Everton for Moyse it was Premier league survival. In the 10yrs before he went there they were a bottom half side and 6 of those years they were in a relegation scrap. In the 11yrs of Moyse they were once in relation fight in his second season but pretty much a top third of the table side most of the time.

Given the financial consequences of relegation for a skint club like Everton, that was success even if he didn't win trophies.

I don't know whether Moyse is the right man, no-one does yet but FFS give the guy a chance. If you're right, this time next year you can crow about it, if you're wrong you can change your user name;-)

Brilliant reply gbj. He is our manager now and wether some think he's the right man for the job or not it certainly doesn't help when our fans r jumping on his statments and looking for negatives in the words but the facts r there like gdj said his success at Everton can't b measured in trophies because martinez won a cup got wigan relageted! Judge him in a yrs time but 4 now support utd and our manager.

How many Champions League finals has the instability and buying "world class" players brought Real Madrid in the last decade?

Stability with the right manager is all well and good but success is what is vital. Real Madrid are not the model but Bayern and Barca don't look for a long term figure that is all powerful. Whilst SAF brought much success was he in danger of being bigger than the club especially in the scheme of things during the takeover. Changing managers hasn't looked too good at times with Chelsea but their wins have been pretty good over the last ten years.
My thoughts are that stability is only one element but not the holy grail and whilst it worked with SAF it doesn't mean it will work again.
Times change and we haven't moved with them, I hope the romantic idea of appointing for stability works but feel it is the skill of the manager that will make the difference.
Finally we know what Moyes thinks of stability, we get it he wants to keep his job for a long time, we all do, but how about sharing his football philosophy and vision?

GNJ

Have not read any of your previous posts but what a great and balanced reply.

Last night was a reminder for those who like to throw stones, teams with half our issues are not performing to the level they should be, this team and this manager needs time after 26 years of SAF.

I think we will try our best to bring in a few players in Jan but as rightfully said by DM they have to be quality players and available. We are missing that little bit of creativity upfront due to midfield woes and inconsistent wing play and if we can deal with that, we will win a lot of games.

Wenger has done very well under financial restrictions when the new stadium was being developed. Now he's been given big money he will only improve. Ozil being a good example. Stability is then answer. Rise above the "rent a manager" mentality.

Stability is important when you have on board a man who can guide your team to success not just to show to the world that we're different.

I rather change the manager in every 3 years and Win titles than spend 3 years win less, just to impress the media.

@Red Man

What has the model of changing managers and having a director of football brought at a self sustaining club like Tottenham? Has it worked?

Bayern are clearly looking at the long term right now with Guardiola.

Barcelona is the only real example where things have worked without managerial stability (although it can be argued that Guardiola did bring stability), and the only reason is the philosophy of football and success of the youth setup. Their financial situation without having any ownership related debt is a concern.

How do you know Moyes is not the right manager? Based on not even half a season gone, in which he was given just 1 on his targets? If this is how we are going to judge, we should be changing managers every six months.

You clearly have made up your mind already, gotten to a conclusion and then desperately trying to find selective quotes to try and fit into your argument and give a very biased picture.

City appointed a manager who hasn't won a single trophy in Europe. Barcelona appointed somebody whom we didn't even know about until he was linked with them.

Time will tell if Moyes is the right manager for us, but such clutching at straws to prove he ain't the right man doesn't get much credibility in my eyes. The club has clearly looked at somebody who they feel is suited to the job, not a short term fix.

Lets be honest, with this squad and the injuries we have had, any new manager would have had a hard time. Jose hasn't really set the world alight with a better squad at Chelsea has he?

I find it laughable when Chelsea and Man City's models get compared to United's. Will Chelsea, the way they have operated, have worked in the last 10 years had they not been bankrolled by Roman? No chance.

Ultimately it comes down to the quality of the players on the pitch.

Bayern and Barcelona or even Chelsea are not the example to use and as usual not stating the fact but using it to suit an opinion.

Barca has been blessed with having a host of unbelievable players all come through their academy and more coming and you could argue they get away with changing managers because they have huge financial capability, great players an unbelievable academy and most decent managers could not screw up when you have 7 or 8 players from the starting line up of the world and european champions and also Mr. Messi and now Neymar.

Bayern has no Rival in the Bundesliga when it comes to financial power and dwarf the rest of the teams and have assembled a squad of word class players that most decent managers again could not possibly screw up.

Chelsea get way with it because abrahamovic seems to have an endless budget and just keeps buying great players and for most managers it is like winning the lottery.

The morale of the story is you can do that when you have unbelievable players or ready to spend vast sums of money consistently with change of managers. We don't have that Luxury and stability is a big part of why we are so successful.

Give Arsene Wenger the current Barca or Bayern squad and he will destroy teams as he is no lesser manager than Guardiola or anyone else around and I have a lot of respect for him. bad loser though.

REDFAITH

"You clearly have made up your mind already, gotten to a conclusion and then desperately trying to find selective quotes to try and fit into your argument and give a very biased picture"

I picked out a quote about stability and now I am desperate? I have given an opinion based on what has been said and done but also what he hasn't said. Let's be honest some of his comments to the press have shown inexperience. I was going to credit Moyes with his push to Welbeck to train harder when I got chance, I will also praise him when he gets his tactics right. Yet I lived through the Sexton years and we were sold him as being the answer in a similar way hence some valid skepticism.

"City appointed a manager who hasn't won a single trophy in Europe"

Very selective "in Europe" whilst ignoring City's managers success in South America. Also Champions league qualification with different teams in debut season or the fact he managed Real Madrid to a points total only surpassed once in their history by Mourinho's team. However I didn't suggest him even though he has a better CV than Moyes. Were you being selective?

"Barcelona appointed somebody whom we didn't even know about until he was linked with them"

Is that Martino, who I never suggested, yet with four titles with four different teams in Paraguay and being voted South American coach of the year in 2007, again he seems to have more on his CV than our manager.

" Time will tell and clutching at straws to prove he ain't the right man doesn't get much credibility in my eyes."

Tell me what Moyes has done that makes him the right manager for Manchester United? It isn't clutching at straws it's is looking at other managers experience versus his and I haven't even got to the top managers. Moyes is a massive risk that I truly hope works, otherwise we will have taken a major backward step and too late to put it right. It may work but it is a massive risk, massive.

"Jose hasn't really set the world alight with a better squad at Chelsea has he?"

As I have said before we know Jose has the experience to get it right, he has demonstrated he can get it right previously, he is a serial winner, however, whether Moyes can, is a guess we are all making, some positively, some not but it is a guess. I have everything crossed that it will work because I have seen the mess when it didn't and these days we have far further to fall.

Redman

Chelsea spend 75 million in the summer and I am sure jose will get it right once he spends another 100 million.

So a manager that wins some chicken farm league in Paraguay is a better candidate than one who has over 10 years of premiere league experience. You are truly unique.

I can't wait for your post match analysis, I am sure he got it all wrong today as usual.

Let's see hat our manager can do if he was given a 100 million.

RedMan - Paraguay? Seriously? Clutching a but there, mate :)

GCU

Yes please do read my post match, I am objective.

Steviek and GCU

I did not suggest either as manager of our club. Go and compare any of the real top managers CVs against Moyes. No matter what you do he doesn't have the CV of a top manager and I maintain it is a major risk to appoint him.

The only consistancy we have is that under saf for his last few years we played boring football and now under our new manager we are still playing the same boring football.ive said since early season we wouldn't make the top 4, I hope i'm wrong but I've seen very little to make me change my opinion.the big problem moyes will have is that come the jan window if we haven't halved the points between us and 4th place then any targets will be worried about no cl football next season and hold off till the summer or not at all.also moyes will not have the pull of other managers and might struggle with certain targets especially if they have watched our performances so far and don't like the headless chicken chaos they've seen.utd don't have that magical auora around us anymore and unless the yankee doodles commit to spending big then the better players will mostly choose the money of the madrids, barca, bayerns city and chelseas of this world.the next 4-5 weeks will either shape moyes or break him let's hope its the 1st option.

17 Dec 2013 18:53:02
Just read down a few posts, as an Evertonian I'm just wondering why is it that some of you are so obsessed with our players?
Is is because you think we are easy pickings and desperate for the money?
If that is what you all think then you need to wake up!
Yes you got Felaini but he'd been touting for a move to either yourselves or Chelsea for some time and by the way you got rinsed in that purchase,
Baines? A possibility because we have a very good option in Oviedo, but guess what - a rinsing will be what happens again,
Barkley now come on you really are having a laugh, Martinez will not let that happen, the fans would be outraged but not only that - it was Moyes who held him back, why would he want to play for him again? Because you can offer him CL, right now maybe but not come the end of the season, it's clear for all to see that you are way off the pace.

Baz

We don't give a lame crap about your payers. It's Moyes who seems obsessed with them.

Most posters on this page would put forward 5 left backs they would rather have before even considering Baines.

Now Barkley seems like some people's favourite wonder boy, while others believe his technical limitations make his price tag all the more ridiculous

We discuss Everton players because we are linked with Everton players. Simple as that.

Most likely because Moyes knows most of them well. Some lazy media, some genuine interest. If you moved from one company to another at work, would you consider trying to bring a few select members of the team you left behind with you? It's human nature.

No need for the dismissive replies from the United posters. Everton are in good shape and have decent players. Barkley especially could really kick on. He'd look good on red but can't see it. Moyes didn't really play him anyway.

Ben

I really dnt want Barkley! good little player but for me there are players out there we need more!
The fact ure on here telling us we have no chance tells me u are a lil bit worried!

Says the Everton supporter who's coming on the united page talking about obsession. What with arsenal supporters and Everton ones on here lately because of a few good results where have you been previously? I don't rate Barkley that highly and don't know what the fuss is about. It seems that you can now be a young British player, play a few average games for your club and country, have moments when you skip past a player or 2 or play a few passes that don't go to the other side and then you are in the 25-30 million bracket. (Or is that 30-40 million if your a supporter of that club)?
Keep him I'm really not bothered as there are plenty more talented players about than him. Don't want brained either or anyone else from your club. Don't think they are good enough for who we are I'm afraid. Didn't want fellaini either but he's here now so they better get their monies worth and use him effectively.
And before you mention managers I didn't want Moyes, I wouldn't want Martinez as my favourite choice was Mourinho followed by guardiola and Klopp. I'm also of the opinion that if Moyes doesn't work out in the next year or so you could still see 1 of those 3 at the club especially Mourinho as he isn't having the best time. I'd gladly take him as manager even if he is a bit of an arse now and again, I like him.

Supasub why would you want Mourinho at our club? He's been successful everywhere except arguably Real Madrid but he doesn't stay around long and what with all the drama he brings with him. The worst thing about him which is partly down to him only sticking around for a few seasons is that he doesn't give a monkey's a55 about the club's youth academy and bringing young talent through the ranks. That's one of the most special things at our club.

Klopp is a much better manager for us, suited to our needs and even Guardiola. way before Mourinho. I'd even have Moyes over Mourinho.

I know what your saying Oswald, I just think we are different to any of those clubs. He did win the league with Madrid didn't he? and a cup, that's not too bad.
SAF could also be controversial at times and it never did any harm. Mourinho is pretty much successful wherever he goes. Maybe I just see it different to other, when he was at Chelsea first time around apparently he used to go on about our club a lot (positively I mean) says something, I think if he were at the right club he'd be around for a long time, he would of been at Chelsea longer if it weren't of abramovich interfering.

Supasub, controversial from time to time. Yep. However I can't ever remember Fergie trying to gouge someone's eye out :)

I used to like Jose when he first arrived in England, but now I just think he's a bit of a tool.

17 Dec 2013 17:20:23
From what Moyes has recently said, it does seem that we were in for Ronaldo or Bale this summer. Sounds to me to be more like Bale as he said that the player choose to go elsewhere and he described the player as a 'top, top player'. I hope that we are in the mix for such players again in future with the next one being Reus.

We would all love to have seen Ronaldo don red again or see Bale in a United shirt. But much as it pains me to say it the Citeh method of paying on average £25m for a player but spending that on EVERY player seems to be working out v well for them. Noteable exception is £40m+ for Aguero who let's face it is a steal at that given he's clearly a match for Falcao, Cavani, Suarez etc.

So my brethren .
£75m on 3 first teamers we desparately need or
£75m on one 'worldie'?

Halesini

Definitely the latter, every single god-damn time.
Spend £85million on bringing Ronaldo home? Nah, why not use that to bring in 4 awesome new signings to improve all the areas that need improving.

Halesini, I would be over the moon with Herrera, Reus & Moreno. Young, Fabio & Anderson should raise a little cash to help fund the moves. But overall they would cost around £75m. But £75m well spent IMO.

17 Dec 2013 15:12:53
ngiak must be hearing it wrong
4 players on the way in
7 players on the way out
But only 2 have buyers so far
ngiak is disbelieving
But the other feathered friends have rarely got it wrong
But in January?!? Never happened!
gan

Man o man mr penguin. I sure do hope your right

Such a shame we never signed David de Gea isn't it gan?

17 Dec 2013 06:00:30
Question goes For ED's and Other Experts on this Site.

Do you all think that current Utd academy has a lot of players that can get in to the first team in next year or may be two years from now, the likes of james wilson, Enkagamane, Andres Periera, Keane Brothers?

I think the academy is in good shape, and the emergance of Januzaj this season will certainly give encouragement to the younger players that they can make it.

Given the step up from youth and reserve football I think most of the youngsters will go on loan to championship clubs or lower premiership clubs to gain experience in the same way Powell and Lindgaard are out on loan at the moment. I think when they return to Old Trafford we will have a clearer indication of Moyes plans for the youth. There are a number of youngsters who could potentially make it into the first team especially given the number of players likely to leave in the next 2-3 transfer windows.

I'm no expert, but in my view we have some potentially fantastic young players coming through. It is hard to say with young players though, as you never know if they will manage that step up in quality. If they get to an age where they go out on loan and prove they can make the step up, then you can judge much better.

In my eyes though, Powell will be a quality player for us in the short term just like Januzaj is proving. Lingard I think will be, at worst, a very very good squad player but could also become a first team regular. Blackett will be a very good backup LB for whoever we bring in. The Keane brothers could be top class in the coming years if they continue to develop and make the step up, I just hope Wills past bad injury doesn't ruin what was going to be a fantastic career. Henriquez is doing well at Zaragoza on loan (5 goals in 11 appearances I think) this season and in my eyes will be a very good replacement for RVP when he gets past his best, again if he continues to improve.

These are just a few that I think could make it at United and that is not including Ekangamene, Vermijl(doing well on loan at NEC), Lawrence(doing well at Carlisle), Petrucci, Pearson, Cole, Barmby, Pereira, Goss and Wilson. I would go as far as to say that if everything went wrong and we had to sell our full first team, I think the youngsters coming through, given a bit of experience, would be good enough to keep us as a top 6 side on there own, and who knows what else in years to come. I could be wrong, but that is how good I feel some of them will be if they continue as they are and are given a chance. Class of 92 again? Very possibly, in my eyes, but only time will tell.

The delusion of some people is hilarious.

If we lost our entire full team squad which is full of experienced internationals. we would still have enough talent in reserve to finish in the top 6?

Really. we can't even get into the top 6 with all them international players and you think a bunch of kids who struggle in some under age matches could win us 60 points plus in the EPL. I give up!

Devil Dust don't miss the 'given a bit of experience' bit fella, of course it would take time and a few years of PL playing experience but we'd have no first team so we wouldn't be expecting a champions league spot would we? come on fella. It's not going to happen anyway, but the youngsters we have coming through could be a very very good group, in my eyes, and in time would more than hold their own in the PL, if they carry on developing as they are, that was the point I was trying make before you came on trying to be an smart arse.

Brendan81, glad to see we're not overrating our youngsters.

Another class of 92? 3 of our 4 most talented youngsters are gone. Pogba, Morrison and Daehli are the only ones, along with Januzaj, who are fit to lace the boots of the class of 92 and it's very unlikely that any of them will reach the level of Scholes/Giggs/Beckham/Neville.

Ekangamene is good and hardworking, but he doesn't possess the natural talent to go with his hunger, much like Ryan Tunnicliffe. He's unlikely to reach Butt's level, never mind Scholes.

Lingard might become a regular here, but he's no Giggs. he's intelligent and makes the right decisions more often than not, but his ability is limited.

Powell is a great talent, and the most likely to become a great player, but he has a very very long way to go to be even mentioned in the same sentence as David Beckham.

The Keane brothers are good, but they don't stand out that much. Michael is in the same age bracket as Kurt Zouma, Marquinhos, Varane and Jones. Keane has had a very nasty injury, and god knows where he'll end up. He's struggling to get into Wigan's team atm ( granted at his first competitive couple of games ).

Perreira is more inconsistent than Nani and has not progressed at all in the last 18 months.

Larnell Cole? He's unlikely to be a starting player for us. Very unlikely.

Petrucci is the most talented of the bunch but can't seem to get off the treatment table.

Barmby is going to grow up to be like Ben Arfa.

Pearson, I see why everybody loves him, but he's the most over rated kid in the academy. Plenty of talent, very hardworking but nowhere near as good as some think he is.

The only players I think will likely go on to have fantastic careers in the game are Goss and Wilson.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if these players all prove me wrong, but it's extremely unlikely we'd see more than 4 or 5 of them become first team regulars, even less will reach the level of the 92 bunch

Mick

Considering you are a bit of an expert when it comes to our youth players, I am a little stunned at your assessments for Pearson and Perreira? More so Pearson, I would be genuinely surprised if he does not end up making it big. Perreira is young, yes he hasn't carried on the way he started. But you can just see and tell, he is a special talent. I think Daelhi was a bit overrated to be fair. Agree with the Petrucci bit. Goss looks class on the ball, but he has a long way to go. Wilson is fantastic. My darkhorse is Lawrence, nothing very special except for his technique and shooting, but boy he turns up with match winning contributions more often than not.

Just to be sure, Mick, you were not taking the "mick" while grading Perreira and Pearson ;)?

Deeps.

Mick1 I'm not overrating our youngsters, I'm just saying that 'I' believe they could be a very good group 'IF' they continue to develop and can make the step up, just a personal opinion. Personally I would put Januzaj in the bracket of Giggs if he carries on how he is going. Powell has the natural ability to be at Beckhams level if he continues his development, although a different type of player. Scholes was just exceptional, in my eyes, so I don't think we will ever produce another like him. Butt wasnt a 'great' player, but he was important and did a job. Neville was also a very good player but not, for me, exceptional. He was 100% committed, gave everything on the pitch and was United through and through though and that is what we need from our youngsters. I do feel they could get to the level of Neville and Butt, but it will take hard work and dedication like they had.

I'd be surprised if less than 4 of the youngsters don't go on to be very good players for us. Whether they become as good as 92 is up to them, I think, but I do believe some of them have the ability to be, if they make the right choices.

As always, just my opinions.

Deeps, I'm not saying Pearson is not talented, but I've been on a few blogs and a lot of football youth amateurs want him to start playing games for the first team. For me he's the joint second best academy player, after Goss and as good as Wilson. He might make it here, I'd even say he say a pretty good shot of doing so, but he still has a very, very long way to go.

I see a lot of similarities between him and Larnell Cole, who I thought would be on a premiership loan by now. But sometimes players just don't progress the way you think. Look at Magnus Eikrem, the highest rated academy prodigy in quite a while and here we are 5 years later he has yet to prove himself at Henerveen. Same goes or Tosic.

As for Perreira, he's definitely the most talented, but he's not the best. He's very inconsistent and has not progressed as expected over the last couple of years. When I first saw him playing for the U18s he was a good couple of years younger than everyone else and showed brilliance in flashes. He's still exactly the same 18 months later, which is a disappointment.

I don't think he works as hard as some of the others. Just because you have more talent than everyone else doesn't mean you will become a better player. Ravel Morrison is by far the most talented youngster to come through our academy for the last 10 years ( maybe more, I was too young to give a hoot before than ). He's more talented than any of the youngsters in the league, including the much lauded Barkley and our own Januzaj, but he's not much of a hard worker even after he left his corrupted lifestyle.

Now Brendan, I'm not saying they can't be as good as the 92s, I'm saying it's extremely unlikely and I would be very pleasantly surprised if 6 or 7 of the lads break into the first team and make their mark. And most of them, especially the U21s, Powell and Januzaj aside, are much more likely to become Nevilles and Butts ( lol become butts ) than Beckhams, Giggs' and Scholes'. The U18s can go either way, and it's still way too early to judge.

By the end of the season, we'd see where the loanees are in their development. I think Powell would be ready for a squad place, while Lingard, Keanes and Henriquez would need a premier league loan to further prove themselves, while we might see Ekangamene, Vermijl and Blackett get championship loans, with Janko an outside bet. Petrucci seems on his way out because of his injuries, which is such a shame given how much natural ability this guy has, and so are Macheda, Bebe and Tunnicliffe who has yet to shine in the championship even now that he's been given a central midfield spot.

Goss, Pearson and Barmby should be playing for the u18s by then, which would give us a much more solid base to assess them. I'm not too sure about Barmby while Pearson is likely to get a couple of loans before joining the first team squad. Goss has more natural ability than both, he's also bigger and stronger and might just make the first team squad in the next couple of years.

All in all, if 4 of them manage to become first teamers ( obviously Powell is excluded ), we'd have 9 first team academy graduates, which is more like what we are used to and I'd be extremely pleased with that

I'm with you Mick, would be delighted with that. I agree that there is a lot of work for them all to do, not just the U18 lads, to get anywhere near that 92 bunch, but on raw talent I personally believe a few could be, if they put the huge amount of work and commitment in that is needed. Ronaldo, for me, should be the player all young lads watch and aspire to be. He too was a talented, raw youngster but he worked his arse off day after day on the training pitch, in the gym and just as importantly in his personal life with his diet etc. If our youngsters show that
defication they could be a fantastic bunch, obviously not at Ronaldo's level because the guy is just a freak of nature, but in a good way.

Mick

I wanted to know what's your take on our Lawrence? On a side note, if you watch other youth players, how do you think Chalobah or Zelalem would shape up?

I see you mention Ward Prowse in a post above this thread, I think he is a talent. His maturity is beyond his young age, set piece delivery top notch and overall one to look out for.

I know Pearson has been hyped up by a lot of people. let's hope he justifies it. I think Joe Rothwell has gone under the radar a bit, tidy little player.

Deeps.

Lawrence is a tough one. He's not the most talented but he does have a certain something on his side. He's one of those new bred British youngsters with actual technical ability. I mean he can receive a pass and not mess up his touch more often than not!

He's quite tiny and has suffered a lot with injuries, which is why he often starts on the bench but he does look good every time he comes one. His composure and consistency for a boy this age is impressive. When he's in a position to score or pass, he almost always make the right decision. He's also very versatile and if he manages to sort out his consistency problems, he might just become something special.

Rothwell, well that can be complicated. He can go either way really. He's technically capable, hard working and consistent but he just never stands out. Ben pearson outshone him throughout their time in the academy and at this level, talented players tend to shine and he just never did. He's quite similar to Ryan Tunnicliffe, with a bit more technical ability and less ball winning abilities. Maybe he hasn't shown what he can do because of a couple of injury but I wouldn't get my hopes up

I haven't watched a lot of youth football from outside of our own academy but I know a bit about Zelalem. He went with Arsenal on their tour and for a new signing of his age it's pretty impressive. He's obviously very talented and very highly rated by Arsenal's coaching staff. Lots of people praise how well he adapted to the physical side of the game, and how imaginative he is. What is most impressive about him is his ability to spot a pass and execute it to perfection. never seen that for a kid his age.

And chalobah. Big things were expected of him and he performed quite well at Watford but hasn't set the world alight at Nottingham. He's a bit of an all rounder, tall, strong and not too slow but he has a very bad disciplinary record and has to improve his passing. He's like a less good Pogba.

I rate Ward Prowse quite highly and prefer him over Barkley. He's not as strong and doesn't have the same presence but he's just so much better technically and can go on to become a fantastic midfielder

And might I just add, Goss is probably our brightest prospect. very young and very classy on the ball. His passing is top notch and he's quite skillful. Imo a Carrick replacement in the making