Manchester United Banter Archive September 17 2013

17 Sep 2013 23:29:16
Scholes has apparently joined as Nicky butts assistant on a match by match basis. Great news if true and he can sprinkle some magic maestro dust on some of them.
Also great to see Ed02 back on the page. Been very missed by all as its great to benefit from all the eds input.
Looking forward to seeing some of those sharp witted responses to posters. It has not been the same without him imo.

17 Sep 2013 22:52:55
Just watched the city highlights. Wow Aguero is so good at finding himself that little bit of space and powering a clinical strike. I think we're going to have to play a counter attacking game against them and pack players into our half, to try to catch them on the break. We need to keep two men on him at all times or I can see his pace and touch tearing vidic and rio apart.

They played a poor European side, we put 4 past the 3rd best side in Europe why should we change how we play because we play city? Yes at times we will be backs to the wall, but we should go there like any united side and attack and win the game, not just playing for the counter. Attack is the best form of defence!

Third best side in Germany Caolan. Leverkusen are good but not that good haha.

That's what I meant to say! Thanks for correcting me Fresh!

I agree with you to an extent caolan, but you have to compensate for the qualities of the opposition. If we go there and all out attack yes we may score goals, but I think Agueros pace is dangerous and our defence is not quick at the best of times, so we are naturally going to have to sit deeper, or risk being exposed. I would love nothing more to go there and hammer them 3-0, but in reality it's unlikely.
I think our best bet would be to sit deep soak up everything they can throw at us, and use Rvps and valencias pace, and Rooneys and new found lease of of life to break quick and catch them off guard. I hope Fellaini will be man marking Toure and keep him quiet whilst Carrick and the central defence can crowd out Aguero, and keep him from turning and snapping shots in. Smalling was outstanding tonight and hopefully can carry that form into the game at RB, which would limit the amount of crosses into the box from the left, thus negating Dzeckos aerial threat. Obviously everyone knows Evra may be the weak link but if we use welbeck on the left wing he would be useful at helping Evra out, perhaps even young as he looked sharp tonight when he came on. If we were to play as i'm suggesting, then I don't think kagawa will play as his style wouldn't suit that type of game.
Anyway it was only my opinion, perhaps you will be right and we will go there to play a free flowing attack minded game. Only time will tell. :-)
Fresh- lmfao! ;-)

17 Sep 2013 22:30:06
Aside from the game, which was probably our best performance of the season so far, anyone find the post match interview from Rooney and Moyes weird when asked about Wayne's future and happiness etc. Something still not quite right there, even if he is performing on the pitch, it would be nice to just put it all to bed, otherwise we are going to be having another summer of constant speculation about his future. Thoughts?

I thought the same - he's not committing

Got to agree Elvis whether its contract issues with the seniors within the club I don't know but the simple fact is he's staying but only for now. If he was happy at the club and wanted to stay surely he would jus come out and say it just like van persie has recently

He probably just wants to put it all behind him. Whatever he said, whether it was positive or negative would have dragged it all back up again and would have taken the focus away from what was a very good performance.
Put it this way if he were to say "NO I never wanted to leave", then the back pages tomorrow would have had a field day, and it would have all been about Wayne Rooney, rather than teams fantastic result.

We don't have ITV so missed the interview. I agree he should just put things to bed but refusing to do it also gets me thinking this is not over.

He is trying to negotiate a new bumper deal for himself, when he gets that he will publicly commit.

Rooney played really well tonight. He looks as fit and sharp as he has done for a long time.
I actually thought Rooney handled the situation well. Everyone knows something is amiss, but straight after an important game the interviewer should be concentrating on the game. He is not going to get an exclusive so it must surely only have been asked to antagonise.
I have always hoped that he stays but only if he got himself in shape and showed greater commitment. So far he has shown that.

He refused to answer a question about whether he ever asked to leave United GCU.
I have to agree with CAM, it was clearly publicity hunting, and Rooney was never going to give him the exclusive "yes or no" so it probably was to antagonise either him or the supporters. I too thought he handled it well.

I actually think the post match interviewer ( whoever it was ) will get a bit of a ticking off from united. He asked pretty much twice, Rooney was polite first time and then got a bit tetchy when asked again. Thought he handled it well. He will probably sign a new contract between now and Xmas.

He actually didn't answer either question of where he was happy at the club or if he asked to leave the club he swerved both questions.

I think its all to do with that agent stretford to be fair he is a little crook.

I think he will sign a new contract but I think there might be problems over the terms offered especially after the equalizers comments in the summer about not being scared to run a contract down etc.

If he wants a rise on his already 200k+ a week he does not deserve it same terms should be agreed in my opinion but let's just wait and see

To be fair to the interviewer, the questions need to be asked, unless we're happy that it all gets swept under the carpet and forgotten about.

These modern players are so molly-coddled, wrapped up in cotton wool, and surrounded by yes men, that they forget there are fans up and down the country, who do want to know what went on, before giving Wayne their full backing.

I suspect, underneath a lot of the fawning adoration, there are still plenty like me, who want to see the player actually come out and say, 'I want to stay', or 'I'm still looking to move away', and then we can make up our minds.

Plus, we always go on about post-match interviewers asking sugar-coated, fluff questions, that insult our intelligence. At least Clarke was doing his job, and it would have been remiss of him if he hadn't asked questions pertaining to the ongoing situation with Wayne.

17 Sep 2013 21:57:03
I couldn't be more happier for a player scoring than Valencia, you can really see how much it means to him to score for United. Hopefully, the old Valencia is back! He just needs confidence

17 Sep 2013 21:54:34
And that's why Kagawa hasn't been playing! Worse player on the pitch by a mile!

Eh?

Yeah ok!

Nonsense.

Wasn't terrible but he was a little off the pace, but the only way to fix that is to play him. If Valencia is back to form then that should be our lineup, if not then I'd like to see zaha get a shot on the right. But with no real lw options I'd have Rooney and kagawa switching btw the left and the 10. So tough to defend.

Fredo are you stupid? He's had no game time then when he does you expect him to be really sharp, match fit and playing his best football straight away? Give me strength.

Fredo has always had a gripe with Kagawa. Kagawa is a very special player, but may not be the right fit for MU and our style of play. We build up slowly and he is a one touch player who breaks much quicker. We will see how he gets on this season, but a swap involving Gundogan cannot be completely out of the question. It depends on a lot of factors, but there is a lot of interest in Gundogan from other places.

Kagawa is a super player, but he did look a little lost at times.

He needs to build his understanding with Rooney and RVP and Carrick a Little better.

Carrick needs to be watching Kagawas little Runs he always finds space and Kagawa watching the front 2 runners, unfortunately we don't really have a runner from midfield like a young scholes, maybe that's the piece of the puzzle that missing?

Good player but doesn't really fit in, I would swap him for gundogen in a heart beat. It seems others are starting to see it to

Sydney

Fredo is right. He was the worst player on the pitch last night and was rightly taken off.
His first touch was bad, he couldn't hold the ball up and was constantly getting knocked off the ball.
He looked completely lost at times.
He may be talanted but he just doesn't fit into our style of play.

Jred, I don't think it's anything to do with his size or that he doesn't suit a Moyes' team. Like I said last season, Dortmund play a different way to us and Kags is used to quicker flowing football. Klopp is right when he says he is wasted here. We would need players like Thiago and Cesc to work well with Kagawa. I think Carrick and Fellaini are slow builders and not on his wavelength. Kags will be a great asset this season and will get a few goals and assists, but I am with you and Red Man, I would swap Kags for Gundogan, especially if Rooney stays.

Simmo, Kagawa played some nice stuff yesterday and was very close to scoring. His touch at times was very refreshing to see and for me he only struggled when he fell deep into midfield. Leverkusen make Stoke look like elves, they are a big, powerful side. Against 95% of other sides he will do fine size wise. That being said I think he will be used sparingly this season and will probably leave next summer, especially if Rooney stays.

Syd
It took a while but you are starting to see what others have all ready pointed out.
Moyes is playing slow football with either 4_4_2 or 4_4_1_1 so like I have said kags doesn't fit in.
I also still don't think kags is the type of player that moyes will play in the hole, for reasons I have previously stated.
Do you still think kagawa has replaced Rooney as you said all year

Kagawa was asked to play the same role welbeck has been asked to this season. Lw but drifting in to the middle to make the numbers up . Welbeck has played it very well putting real effort in to cover the ground needed kagawa never.
To many times there was a massive hole on our left side .
He's a good player on the ball but look at every other player for United and at Everton when moyes was there they all had a defensive job

Syd he made one of two good passes, he was a passenger for the whole game.
Everytime he received the ball with a defender behind him he either lost it with a poor first touch or the defender just muscled him off the ball. His passing was alo very poor.
We was by far the worst player on the pitch and looks completey lost in our style of play.

Jred, yes, I think Kagawa would have replaced Rooney had SAF remained in charge. SAF clearly tried turfing Rooney out and Kagawa IMO was bought in advance to replace him. As for "just starting to see" we have always played slow. We are not playing any different under Moyes than what we were playing last season under SAF. We were always going to have to adapt to Kagawa for us to be able to get the best out of him. I said this all of last season. You said he was too small for a Moyes team, I disagree as Pienaar and Osman are not giants. I do agree with the defensive work though and like I said yesterday, I would prefer Welbeck against City.

No syd I never Said he wasn't big enough I said he wasn't physical enough also he is nothing like pienaar.
I said a while back kags didn't fit in you disagreed .
I also said on several times he wouldn't replace Rooney for various reason we have discussed it several times .

You seem to remember the things you want to remember and forget about others.

I said when we signed Kagawa that we will need to change the way we play and we will need more tippy tappy players to play alongside him. After signing just Fellaini and Rooney still here (for now), I also said I could see Kagawa leaving this summer or next. That is a big possibility, especially if Rooney stays.

You said he wasn't physical enough for a Moyes' team. I disagreed with that as Pienaar and Osman are not physical either. I think Kagawa can play a big part of this season, but like you I agree that he does lack the defensive qualities that we will need. Pienaar and Baines worked well together (neither are physical), but both better defensively.

Lol
Only last week you disagreed with me about kags .
You've gone on about him replacing Rooney for 12 month .
As I have said before kags isn't a moyes type .
Kags won't replace Rooney
Like I have said before I take most things you say with a pinch of salt .
You will be telling me next you always rated Rooney and never really rated cleverly

I rate both Rooney and Cleverley. When have I ever not rated Rooney? Is calling him a top player when fit not rating him? He had a poor season last season, I am entitled to expect more of him. When we have been spoiled with his brilliance for years, it's not nice when we are watching him overweight and looking disinterested. You may be happy with that, but I expect a MU player to be better than that.

Last week I said Kagawa wasn't being played as he has been hampered by internationals. David Moyes' words, not mine. I disagreed that you think he isn't a Moyes type player based on his size when Osman and Pienaar are similar sizes. I actually agree that Welbeck would be preferred due to his defensive qualities. If Moyes doesn't want Kagawa then why did he refuse to sell him Jred?

Kagawa plays in the hole/2nd striker. SAF said he bought him to play him in that position. SAF also bought RvP to play as the main striker. So where do you think in SAF's mind did that leave Rooney? SAF wanted him out, Moyes may want different, but IMO Kagawa was bought by '''''SAF''''' to be a future replacement for Rooney. That is what I believe. Just because it hasn't ended up that way doesn't mean that wasn't SAF's intention.

Of course syd that explains everything, it amazing how so much of what you say never happens but there's a perfectly good explanation why you're still right.
As for Rooney, of course you have all ways rated him, after all the posts you have made about him over the last 12 month I can't imagine why anyone would think any different ;)

Things change Jred, like a change of manager for example ;)

Syd
Lol, you weren't wrong " things changed "
I like that
not really much point discussing things with you but I suppose it's good for a laugh

17 Sep 2013 21:49:55
Wayne's look and answer when questioned if he asked to leave :) Is there some hidden propellers in that Scrum hat, Looked so sharp tonight.

More worrying was the way he refused to answer the "are you happy" question!

What did he say? I have danish TV.

He will be happy when he gets his improved deal. Keep playing like that and he may well warrant it. {Ed007's Note - *faint* ;-)

Thought he was going to stick the head in Gabriel :)

Ed007, perhaps an extra £100 a week and a few M&S vouchers :-)

Joking aside, he is showing 2011/12 form, I hope he can keep it. {Ed007's Note - Perhaps he has been told if he applies himself and works hard it won't do his case for a new deal any harm Syd. All players can lose form, very few play can play at the very top of their game every season (except Dennis Irwin) but with Rooney his form will improve with his fitness. I expect, and hope, Rooney will get a new deal and will go on to end his career at Utd, or at least be there for the majority of of the time he has left as a player. He has certainly looked much better so far this season.

I think he always wanted an improved deal, he's like Ronaldo, he needs to be the leading figure. I just didn't think last season's showing deserved an improved deal. SAF clearly wanted him out as their relationship was strained. Now he is gone, Rooney has got his ass into shape, he is showing signs of 2011/12. I hope he can keep it up. I also hope he isn't being too unreasonable with his demands. MU will not break the bank and it would be a great shame for him to go just for the sake of a few grand.

17 Sep 2013 21:35:06
Interesting game. First the good. Rooney was excellent from start to finish, let's hope he can keep this form and enthusiasm going. RVP was a bit subdued but scored a great and critical goal. Fellaini and Carrick were solid throughout, I think Fellaini will settle in and be a big success. The biggest plus for me was Valencia who looked hungry and committed - I thought he had an excellent game.

Now to the not so good. I do think Rio is showing serious signs of decline and was caught out a few times and for al the class Kagawa oozes, he does get pushed off the ball very easily . On a general note, the 1st half was very pedestrian. We could see the impact of some pace and energy in the 2nd half with a typical United clinical move. I just wish we would start quicker. Anyway, great result and some very encouraging signs all round

Totally agree about Rio, as much as I love him, he was our weakest defender tonight, that says a lot for me as I'm not the greatest fan of Evra!

Best part was seeing Toni looking like he was up for it again, and trying to go past people.

The criticism he's had on this site after one poor season, was absolutely ridiculous, especially after coming back from such a serious injury.

Yes he's pretty one-dimensional, but it doesn't matter when he's in that sort of form.

17 Sep 2013 21:24:34
I really hope all the Fellaini doubters are watching the game tonight. I'm not suggesting that you can judge a player over one game, but you can certainly get an idea of his capabilities. On deadline day and the days following I read loads of comments on here that Fellaini was slow, couldn't pass and had a poor 1st touch. Basically he was just a big lump of a target man. I hope that those posters will see tonight what a great player he can be for us. He is not Messi or Ronaldo, but he gives us something that we have been lacking for a long time. Yes he is big and strong, but he can play football too. And play it very well.
Lots of you were saying that he was a desperation buy and we should have signed Ozil or Ronaldo etc etc. Yes Ozil would have been nice, but we have NEEDED a Fellaini type player for a long time. Now we have him and hopefully he will now get the recognition he deserves as a footballer, and not just get criticized for having big hair!

He wouldn't of been the type of player I would of went for I would of much prefered a fabergas type, but fellaini is good player much better than a lot give him credit for and will improve us

I would have loved Fabregas too Jred, but I honestly think we still needed Fellaini as well. I think Fellaini was always at the top of Moyes' list of targets, with another more creative player ideally coming in too. But we have what we have, and our squad is more more that capable of adding more silverware this season. And if Rooney can carry on tonights form and desire, along with the vastly improved Valencia we can all look forwards to a very exciting season.

17 Sep 2013 20:38:07
I think the goal should not have been allowed as Valencia was interfering with the play to be honest.

Rooney, Fellaini and carrick have been brilliant. Kagawa has so much class. Smalling very good at right back. Rio and Vidic solid.

Anyone know why zaha is not even a sub, Would have been great to see zaha on for Valencia at some point tonight.

Andy Grey hates us BTW and has not had a good thing to say about us for 5 weeks now, fed up with listening to him.

Agree with you about all of that GCU. Andy grey is just miserable, I'm not a fan of Roy Keane as a pundit either, he neve me seems to have anything good to say whether its united or England.

Shahram

Kagawa may ooze class but he has been bullied off the ball regularly.

Andy grey must have read your post as he's definitely changed his tune this second half haha!

AJH

He needs a run of games and he offers something very different. He has not had the best of luck with injuries and constant internationals.

I would rather have him on the left than Welbeck. He is very intelligent and composed and our only true attacking midfielder.

As I right this Andy Grey is going on about DDG not being good. He is real w. ker.

AJH, to be fair Leverkusen are a massive side. They are all big, strong lads. Something like 7/11 of the players are over 6ft. I do not think we will face many sides like this again. Perhaps Stoke City and Leverkusen away ;)

Andy Gray? Are you guys watching on Al Jazeera tv or something?!

Yes I live in Dubai and unfortunately they have Keegan and Grey as two main pundits on AlJazeera and I have to listen to their s. t every week.

Oops andy Townsend haha :-D

Had him last year and he has nothing good to say about us either :) I think it is years of getting beat by us that makes these guys hate us:)

Haha, yes GCU your probably right there. I can't believe andy grey was slating DDG, is he really that biased or does he just not know anything football? I think the commentators should give a fair assessment of the game or they should just keep there mouths shut. :-)

17 Sep 2013 19:24:26
A very strong side. Kagawa playing the Pienaar role. Rafael at RB, Nani on right wing and that will probably be our strongest line-up this season. Is that fair? {Ed004's Note - That's what I reckon. Very similar to his style of play at Everton}

Syd, Nani on form maybe. I agree that with Rafael in and someone on the right playing well this is our best team.

You said it a while back Ed in regards to Pienaar. This could be the side that starts against City.

As long as kagawa is playing in field and not out on the wing i'd have to agree with u syd.

Mick, I think Kagawa playing the David Silva role as a left inverted winger works well. He plays there for Japan so it isn't new to him. At least if he plays there we get to have him and Rooney on the pitch at the same time.

Welbeck if fit or young will play the lw role against city imo

Jred

I tend to agree with you. I think DM will set us up not to lose and they will offer more defensively where kagawa offers more offensively.

I agree, Welbeck if fit Jred, I think I'd go with him against City too. How big is our team? Smalling, Vidic, Ferdinand, Fellaini, Carrick, Valencia, RvP and Welbeck. Corners could be interesting.

Rooney and EV can head a ball or two too. We will certainly pose a threat to City at corners. Kompany returning is a massive boost for them.

17 Sep 2013 19:15:45
I like that line up. Just need Rafael back. And then we have wellbeck and Hernandez and Mani to use wings or up front as replacements. Herrera would also replace Carrick long term.

Agreed but I don't see Herrera coming.

17 Sep 2013 19:05:42
Have to say i'm very happy with the line up/formation for tonight. Very pleased to see Kagawa getting some game time and Fellaini/Carrick should give plenty of cover for the front 4 to hopefully cause lots of problems.

17 Sep 2013 15:41:12
Guys the under 19's kick off at 4 against Leverkusen on Eurosport

Playing not too far away from where I grew up.

Keep an eye out for Wilson and Pearson.

LOL, and both have scored within ten minutes.

Looks like we have imploded now, 2-2

Scholes is on the bench with the rest of the staff too, have I missed something or is he just watching?

Must say Pearson does look a gem! Dissapointed that it's 2-2 at half time! Poor defence for th goals! Rothwell has been good too shame about his miss at the end if the half!

He's coaching staff.

Hes also in a United jacket hopefully he's on the coaching staff

now 2-3 down due to mistake

A good 4-3 win very impressed by Wilson great pace and a willing runner showed good composure for his goal and won't the penalty brilliantly and finished it well!

Ive watched wilson a lot over the last 18 months and he's a goal machine very talented all round player

17 Sep 2013 13:23:26
It was fantastic to see Adnan get a run out at the weekend, albeit, in a favourable circumstance.
I really am looking forward to the crop of youngsters slowing entering the frame, ready to be major contributors to United’s future success. I know there is a few on the site that was a bit upset with the lack of marquee signings. I too was a bit upset that no midfielder was bought. Fellani is a good player but he isn't there to replace Cleverly or Anderson, which I still consider a major problem area.
However, with time I really believe the future is bright for the club, and the one major reason Moyes was brought to the club. Stability and a familiar face for the kids’ year in year out.
Recently I've been having constant disagreements with my Dad about why Moyes is in charge. Personally, I fully support the decision and the manager and will back him to the end, but I am at the age, where I have only seen Manchester United at the top. My Dad has supported them much longer and has seen both sides of the spectrum, and really doesn't want another baron period. He has a major passion for the club and doesn't want to see the disappointment of the past, I believe more for me than himself, as I’ve never experienced it.
He was upset with the lack of activity, so I tried to explain the more important decisions and roles higher up at the club, above Moyes, which he reluctantly accepted.
However, personally I am much more excited about the potential of the younger players, even if that means risking success in the short-term. Don’t get me wrong I want us to challenge for everything, but if I begin to see more players like Januzaj getting in the line-up, I would be much more excited than if we went out and bought Leighton Baines or a Yohan Cabaye.
I see down the page someone questioning our academy and the lack of World Class talent we have produce in the last 10 years plus.
Firstly, I would like to know if you have seen our very talented youth, which contains some wonderful players from Michael and Will (Unlucky) Keane, Larnell Cole, Lingard, Powell, Johnstone, Ben Pearson, Pereria, Barmby…so on?
Secondly, I would also like to pose the question to all; apart from Barca (Who succeeds greatly in this sector), what major club in Europe has produced their own World Class Talent that is in their team today from the last 10+ years? I'm talking Bayern, REAL MADRID, Chelsea, so on. The only World-class players in those teams have learnt their trade somewhere else and been purchased.
In terms of youth players coming through the ranks, although they may not be World Class they have all contributed to Manchester United’s success. Evans, Welbeck, Fletcher, (Through gritted teeth) Cleverly.
The time of Fergie's fledging’s is gone and youth production seems to be finding a player that adds to the squad rather than producing future starlets! However, I do believe the next crop will be immensely talented, dubbed Moyes' Mini's, (Little giggle to self).

17 Sep 2013 11:46:07
It is good to see Ed0002 back - hopefully!

Do you think they could re-open the transfer window for a day for us?

That last day was awful without his/her input and I am sure that was why Woodward got it all wrong - he was waiting for some insight!

17 Sep 2013 23:28:53
Damn right, not the same without you Ed02! Please delete any tool who decides to break the rules in future. I mean their profile obviously, not as in permanently!

17 Sep 2013 09:49:29
I saw some gentleman complaining below about being charged exhorbitant prices to watch football games on tv.

Not that I am rubbing it in his face but in Mumbai I pay just 250 Rupees per month(4 Dollars) and get all channels. I saying Movies/Sports/Daily Soaps/News Channels/Hollywood movies/Bollywood Movies/Regional Channels.

I get all these channels(400 channels approx) at 4 dollars per month.

Dont get MUTV though but all matches of United and other major teams are televised. Be it Premier League or Champions League.

{Ed002's Note - The television money in England keeps a lot of sides, at least for now, from going under.}

Mumbai_Boy
We in India do not realise the commercial value of Football as it is not a major sport here.
Consider it same as TV Channel paying Millions & Millions to broadcast IPL / CL T20 etc.That is the major source of the Cricket board income!

FeaRED I think you cannot compare IPL and the English football structure.

We just have 9 teams and have just one league. In England they have 5-6 tiers of football and the teams on the lower levels certainly require the TV money for survival.


The 9 IPL on the other hand couldn't care less about the TV money as all the owners are rich and have lot of money to spend.


I wasnt trying to make any point in my original post neither was I trying to compare. I just wanted to know what people from other countries are paying to watch games whereas we in India don't pay a lot.

P.S: FeaRED we don't have to pay any additional money to watch IPL games whereas these guys in England do need to pay that extra money to watch EPL/CL games.

Wow Mumbai Boy, that's amazing, it's about 20x that amount in the uk, and that wouldn't include half the channels that you get over there. Everything is an optional extra over here such as ESPN, MUTV, and as of this year BT now own some premier league rights, so your probably talking closer to £100pm ($150 approx) for all the sports channels. Maybe I should consider moving to india ;-)

I just pay RS 175 for a month for around 400 channels approx. But things are normalised over here when we pay extra for the basic commodities.
so Jase don't rush in to a decision now think over it again ;)