Manchester United Banter Archive December 18 2019

18 Dec 2019 16:00:43
looks as though gomes is definately on his way out, after being overlooked recently and deleting all utd refrences from his social media he's been overlooked again from tonights squad.

18 Dec 2019 16:06:04
Good, mentally too big for his boots and literally too small for his boots. If you don't want to be here when you've seen the chances we have given Williams, McTominay and Greenwood then off you go.

18 Dec 2019 16:38:54
So it's his fault then GDS?

18 Dec 2019 16:51:46
Was a world class talent a couple of months ago.

18 Dec 2019 16:53:06
i don't like his attitude but he is a very talented footballer whos probably pissed off at not getting a few more starts even when some players are underperforming but still getting game time.

18 Dec 2019 16:56:35
He hasn’t performed when given opportunities, and given that we’re crying out for a number 10 and he failed to convince the coaching staff that he was up to task, I think we can safely assume that he thinks he’s better than he is at present.

We saw the same thing Adnan, buckets of potential but not enough application, now he’s a bit part player for Sociedad. Gomes could turn it around, but I haven’t seen much progression over the last few seasons.

18 Dec 2019 17:02:45
Ole has given a lot of youngsters chances and some have taken them with both hands. When I have watched Gomes this year he has seemed slightly detached, not really interested. I am sure that’s wrong but he has done nothing at all to suggest he should get more game time. If he was good enough, he’d be on the pitch more.

18 Dec 2019 17:20:51
Its really amazing how whenever a player does poorly every fan turns into a world renowned psychologist.

Yes he hasn't done too well in the chances given, but then i see the amount of chances lingard's been given this season or periera's been given and how well they grabbed their chances. Can someone really say that if gomes was given 1600 mins of football in premeire league this season he might not have done better than 1 goal and 1 assist?

18 Dec 2019 17:47:38
I for one think it's a big mistake. I think he's young and wants to break into the team. He has more skill in his little toe than Lingard will ever have. Coupled with the aging Mata and useless Pereira, Gomes is better than all these.
If he goes, we'll regret it, mark my words.
What opportunities has he been handed? Few minutes here and there, that's not enough. Lingard, Fred, Pereira have been utter dross, yet they keep getting starts.

18 Dec 2019 18:15:04
he just looks like a gust of wind would blow him over.

18 Dec 2019 18:50:07
I'll go with the views of the people who see him day in, day out on the training pitch. If they don't think he was good enough for more starts, then that's good enough for me.

18 Dec 2019 19:12:30
Nou the same people are also responsible for getting us off to the worst ever start in don't even know how many years and think lingard and Pereira are good enough to start, so their views definitely are not above reproach.

18 Dec 2019 19:54:38
He can go if he wants. We have Puigmal and Mjebri on the way who look better then him.

18 Dec 2019 20:04:34
If he was good enough now, he’d be playing. You have to give OGS at least that credit that he will pick the academy lads. That’s not to say he won’t be a great player.

18 Dec 2019 20:32:34
CSM, they still know more than all of us put together, or they'd be posting on here while we did the coaching. They don't get these jobs by accident, and they get to see the person as well as the player.

18 Dec 2019 21:02:01
I said on here a couple of months ago that I was told he’s being poorly advised and his family are a very negative influence. Ed001 have you heard anything similar?

{Ed001's Note - it depends on what you call negative. They think he should move on and are telling him to move.}

18 Dec 2019 21:55:53
I was told Ed that he’s been expecting to be a first team player since his debut.

{Ed001's Note - it does seem he believes he should be the one in the first team ahead of the likes of Greenwood.}

19 Dec 2019 00:58:47
Must be something with his mindset maybe? Maybe he dosnt do the job in the training ground like the others that have made full debut's. Ole is not a typical throw a player out as long he isn't training hard or has a attitude problem?
Could it be him Keane is refering to when he was here before the City game that really pissed both him and the rest of the players?
Or maybe he isn't good enough for what he is asking of in his contract extention?
There has been questions about Chong's contract, but he was on the bench today.

Maybe this is Ole showing the rest of the squad that he takes no bull from players that aren't team players?

He is certanly a great talent, but so was Ravel back in the day. He could just be a waste of talent.

Etzaz Hussain (a former norwegian academy player) when he left United, SAF said that Hussain had a "better understanding of his own developement, than the United staff"

Its a lot of maybe's, maybe he will come back biting us in the behind or maybe he will be a league two player in 4-5 years time?

19 Dec 2019 05:33:48
Norwegian red the keane meeting is fake news, ole himself confirmed later that keane did not speak to any player.

About him wanting starts, can you really blame him? Look at our no 10's, look at their performances, their nos. Is he really incorrect or entitled in thinking that he can do better than those who start every week?

18 Dec 2019 23:35:14
I don’t think he’s in the same class as mason Ed. Don’t get me wrong Gomes has got a top player in him, but if he’s jealous of Greenwood getting minutes then that says a lot about his character perhaps. I think Gomes is more suited to European football, perhaps Spain.

{Ed001's Note - I wouldn't disagree with you mate.}

19 Dec 2019 07:39:11
Totally agree Common Sense. We had Mata and Pereira playing last night and they contributed less than zero. So unless Gomes is not even bothering to turn up for training then I can't see how he's not being given a chance.
Ogs said when he came in that he thought Gomes was very small, that's a worrying statement to make. Messi Silva Maddiaon Zola are all small players and they seem to have done alright for themselves.
I think it's nothing to do with training or what they're seeing on the training ground because if they're watching Pereira and Mata in action there then God help us. It's more to do with him not wanting to sign a contract until he's assured of more playing time. Ogs is trying to teach him a lesson and it's going to backfire.

19 Dec 2019 07:50:03
Ok, i didn't know the Keane thing was fake. I can sort of understand him, but i think he is, as Pogba did back when he went to Juve that he is demanding first team football too sign a new deal?
I don't know what it is, but i trust the decission if he don't get a new contract.

It might be an issue over they don't want anyone to hold the club for ransom anymore. For me that is a good enough reason.

He is a great talent, but mentality and workrate comes first, in my opinion.

19 Dec 2019 09:35:48
Apparently it’s being pushed by his family who are filling his head with big ideas like Barcelona and believing he’s better than current first team. For football family you’d expect better.

I don’t think they get he’ll play in their B team with the other English lad they have from Arsenal. But his ability is limited by his physicality and attitude.

He’s also had a fall out with 2-3 academy lads getting first team minutes. Again rumours are his family are driving it.

I’m not believing the hype with Gomes, attitude is far more important than ability we’ve seen this hundreds of times. with his family as they are he won’t amount to much if they’re not careful.

19 Dec 2019 10:56:25
Gomes is one of the most naturally talented players in our academy, only Mason and possibly Garner are on a similar level to Gomes.

If Gomes was 5 inches taller he would be a regular by now. Unfortunately his limited physical ability means it will take longer for him to establish himself in a physical league such as the EPL.

He'd be a phenomenon if he was playing in Spain currently. But in the EPL he drifts in and out of games too much.

He has twice the ability of Andreas Pereira and Jesse Lingard, yet both of them offer so much more out of possession. Gomes can't effectively press centre backs who are several stone heavier than him and in many case a foot taller.

In my opinion he needs a season long loan in the Championship. Get roughed up and learn to cope with it, learn how to adapt and impose his game on those far more physically stronger than him.

He is shorter than Messi, and currently not as strong. That doesn't mean he can't be a success, just that his path to the first team might be a little longer.

Jesse Lingard didn't really get into the first team until he was 22 because he was small and lightweight. He had several loans to the Championship in order for him to learn and develop.

I hope the kid makes it, with us or elsewhere. If he thinks it is best for his career to move on then fair enough.

19 Dec 2019 14:57:32
Shappy I doubt Gomes would go on a loan to the championship if I’m honest.

19 Dec 2019 16:14:03
Caolan, he won't with 6 months left on his contract. He needs regular games in a physical league if he is to succeed in the EPL.

He could go on loan abroad, Spain maybe, but more likely a league outside Europe's "big five". Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium maybe. I don't know how he would adapt to a different league. Although in saying that I would imagine he can speak a bit of Portuguese if he isn't fluent.

So maybe a move to a Portuguese club, it would be a step up in quality from the Under 23's, yet it still won't prepare him for a more physical league.

18 Dec 2019 13:44:59
Eds, any chance we can have a poll on whether Pogba should be some this January?
Cheers.

{Ed033's Note - be some what? A footballer? :)


Sell Pogba Poll

18 Dec 2019 15:17:58
Looking at the results I would say jred hasn't voted yet. lol.

18 Dec 2019 16:39:17
😂 shappy.

19 Dec 2019 01:02:04
A pro wedding dancer, maybe? "I love dancing for Man United, i always dance for mysel. The team.

19 Dec 2019 09:40:06
Throw in Rojo as a bonus.

19 Dec 2019 09:59:09
I voted no. I think we should wait until the summer when I think we will get more for him. I also think we are light in midfield and although he is not the long term answer and he is a lazy under performer, he at least can add some badly needed creativity until we can buy someone better.

18 Dec 2019 12:06:41
I have been thinking about VAR and how it has been used in the EPL so far.

Personally I like the idea of it, and feel that anything that can be used to bring up the standard of refereeing decisions is a vital tool we need to use.

Clubs have been using sport science to improve the speed and agility of their players, and the balls have become lighter and move quicker, pitches have become pristine playing surfaces designed to allow the ball to move as quickly as possible.

So a lot of technology has been used to speed up the game, while TV analysis has massively improved meaning that fractional decisions can be analysed and checked and fans can find out on their phones during half time whether a fractional decision went their way or not.

All of this while all the ref's have got to help improve their performance is a can of shaving foam.

It's hardly surprising that the ability of a Ref has declined as the speed of the game has increased with no allowances for the ref's.

VAR is needed, that said it is not a perfect system and it never will be. But in a world where one bad decision in the EFL play off final could be the difference between promotion and 100m windfall or financial ruin for a club we need to make sure these decisions are right.

So, what do I think needs to change to improve VAR?

Firstly, it is supposed to be used for clear and obvious errors. Therefore, I would introduce a time limit of 2 minutes. If after 2 minutes of reviewing a decision you can't decide if it was wrong then it is neither clear or obvious. Also where possible the game should be allowed to continue being played while the VAR decision is being made, and where it isn't possible then the stoppage should be added to extra time.

Secondly, it shouldn't be used for offside calls. On the whole linesmen get these decisions right (although it does annoy me when they flag a player offside then it turns out they weren't as they are supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking team unless they are 100% sure, which in cases where they are wrong they clearly couldn't have been) .

Thirdly, every stadium should have at least one large screen which shows a live feed of what VAR is reviewing. That way people in the stadium know what is going on, and don't feel detached from the proceedings. It also removes ambiguity about what is being reviewed and why a decision is given one way or the other.

These three changes would in my opinion transform the impact of VAR, and go a long way to solving many of the complaints people have with it.

18 Dec 2019 13:01:55
Just scrap it and improve the quality of refereeing in general. Have an independent body review refereeing decisions, rather than themselves.

18 Dec 2019 13:59:24
Sepp, what practical solutions would you suggest to improve the quality of refereeing?

The issue is the game move too fast for a single person to keep up with every decision.

You would need refs to be fitter and quicker to at least the standard of the average EPL player. That's just not practical. To even have a chance you would need most of your refs to be in the mid to late twenties in order to physically keep up with athletes of a similar age.

Secondly how often do you see a foul or an issue during a game which until you see it in slow motion it is hard to give a clear verdict either way. How do you expect someone on the pitch, 30 yards away with players potentially obstructing his view to actually see something that you and the pundits can only see from three different angles with the action slowed down?

For a slightly different example go and have a look at Julian Brandt's goal for Dortmund against Leipzig the other day. Apart from being one of the most elegant goals you'll see all year, you have to watch it 3 or 4 times from multiple angles and slowed down to truly understand what he has done and the brilliance of the goal.

Now imagine if he went over, a player was near him had stuck out a leg, your 20 yards away in the same position that the Ref was in. Can you 100% guarantee you would be able to tell if there was sufficient contact to give a penalty?

What training would you give a Ref for them to be able to make that call?

If we the fans and pundits need multiple replays, slowed down in order to tell what happened then how do you expect a man on the pitch who sees it once in real time to be a better judge?

The game has moved on and progressed, technology has increased the pace it is played at. Professional footballers can sprint at Olympic qualifying sprint times, the movement is so quick the naked eye struggles to keep up.

We can either just accept Ref's making wrong decisions or we can provide them the tools needed to make the correct call more often than not.

Considering the money in football, and place it holds in the sporting world its a damning indictment that Tennis, Rugby and Cricket can all embrace technology in the refereeing processes and make it work. While football can't.

It's just the same stuffy grey haired antiquated old men who refuse to bring football into the 21st century as its scary new world they don't understand. It these same men who feel you need to make women wear skimpier clothes to improve women's football. Or those that give the excuse that we shouldn't include technology in football as it moves it away from grass roots. Ridiculous ideas or excuses made in a pathetic attempt to keep football in the 1970's when these men felt happy and safe.

18 Dec 2019 16:48:04
Just a thought, how accurate are the GPS trackers they wear, could they decide offsides and forget about armpits and little toes ect, I have read somewhere the current camera system is only accurate to about 3/ 6 inches anyway?

{Ed002's Note - No, even with DGPS the answer is no.}