Manchester United Banter Archive July 18 2014

18 Jul 2014 23:51:13
Ed(s),
With all the Vidal talk going on, has United maintained contact or interest in carvalho? Thanks for any input, you all do a great job.

{Ed002's Note - There is nothing right now.}

18 Jul 2014 20:46:24
We have so many players not excelled at our club! Ando, Kagawa, Fellaini, Zaha, Nani, Clevs.
A quick question to all, was Clevs better than Pogba? Why was Clevs getting more chance or was Clevs starting to get his first team game after Pogba left?

#sigh#. Pogba was very young but should have given more of a chance than he was given. SAF, for whatever reason, refused to play him and played anyone he could instead of him in midfield. The last straw was when he picked Rafael ahead of giving him a chance, nobody has ever explained what the issue was but it was not one of SAF's finest moments.

Fergie messed up with that one, Pogba was ready Fergie thought he was'nt and also thought Rafael was a better option(example), 1 year later he's worth a shed load of money. Unfortunate for UTD.

Kagawa and ando suffer from the same condition of being asked to do what they aren't rally good at.Its too late for anderson. There is still hope for kagawa.Fellaini was a panic buy and can never play in his most useful position at united, not unless we're being managed by big sam.Clevs hasn't been the same since the injury. I fear its too late for him too.
And even when clevs was fit, pogba was way better.

Difference was attitude one was grounded the other thought he was was born like paul scholes so he played tricky games and pushed himself out for various reasons.

I don't think you can ever say that was a mistake by Fergie because no one knew exactly what went in pogbas head other then what we been told and heard.

I also believe when you let a player go there is always another option available not saying you always succeed with other options, but there is more to a team then individuals and if they are not prepared to sacrifice certain things or do not obey their manager's orders then there is no room for them.

It may come to bite us after 10 years if we don't win anything but you never know there is another pogba in the making and we will all forget about him if we continue to be successful in terms of winning silverware.

Sorry if I said something wrong.

Right.

I know this is one where Sydney and I disagree. Sydney will tell you his agent was hawking him around whilst he was at United and this is the reason he left. Personally I think this is rubbish.

If he was being hawked round it was because he wanted to leave as for some reason fergie didn't rate him.

I watched pogba playing for our reserves and as part of our fa youth cup winning team. He was a beast then. He was clearly ready to play. However when we had massive injury problems a right back was preferred to play in midfield rather than him.

I love fergie but he got this wrong and I just wish some on here acknowledged that rather than placing the blame on pogbw. An exceedingly talented player who was ready to play but wasn't given a chance thus he left.

I was posting about him 3 or 4 years ago saying he needed to play and it didn't happen. I don't blame him or his agent in this one I blame fergie.

Fertile is widely heralded for brining through our youth but since the class of 92 who did he actually bring through. Cleverly didn't play till 22 and we haven't seen any other talent come through out youth team since then. (Thill fergie left) I actually think fergie knew he was going to retire soon and lost his interest in youth and It became more about securing his legacy.

It's the one massive black mark for me that sits in the negative column when it comes to appraising his time as Our manager.

The more time without fergie I can see so many things he did wrong and must take a sh*ep load of blame, he is one of the sole reasons we are in such a mess right now, his signings was crap, he let the future best midfielder in the world go, in fact he did very lil right in his last 6 years it is amazing we won the league so many bad signings

Red Bear how do you know if pogba signed a big contract that he wouldn't winge again after few years and hawk himself around europe like he is doing now or going to be soon.

I have a feeling that pogba will soon join psg and when he gets tired there and if Real Madrid come calling he would run to play for them.

I don't have a problem with youth coming through but when it is an bad apple you get rid of the apple not the tree.

Let's remember during one of our soap opera Sneijder links a couple of years back Fergie said he wouldn't be signing Sneijder during a pres conference and the reason he gave was Pogba was ready and might get disillusioned by Sneijder coming in affecting his development.

Clearly Fergie rated Pogba, there must have been some reason behind the scenes why Fergie was not playing him because let's be honest its not like Fergie was afraid to trust young players during his time at United.

It does sadden me to see the beast he has become given he is everything United need and it will be even harder should he sign for Chelski seeing him light up the Premier League for one of our rivals but que sera sera unfortunately.

Fergie became too cantankerous and stuck in his ways in his old age and obstinately resisted the transfer trends and rising power of agents in what had become more internationally based sport. I think he found the approach of the new generation of young kids to be insolent and disrespectful, and was unable to accept their negotiating capacity.

Last summer I met a gentleman from Scotland on my way back from the US who had recently had dinner with SAF's brother. He said Fergie knew he'd left a mess and was incapable of fixing it, which is why he retired so suddenly.

It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, in particular when the old dog doesn't want to learn.

I recall the game, believe it was Blackburn at home where instead of playing the upcoming Pogba in midfield SAF put Rafael and Park in the middle. I believed at the time it was a massive mistake and since then Pogba has highlighted it. As SAF got later in his time with us he seemed to become more set in his ways, unwilling to take chances. I believe the rise of City and their spending power rattled him and made him lean more greatly on experience to get him through. Earlier in his time with us he knew he had time to get it right therefore was more decisive but in later years he seemed to take a short term view. Pogba was a mistake, perhaps even because SAF would not grant the pay the French youngster wanted, again SAF liked that structure and control around youngsters who should perhaps "know their place". Pogba is vilified by some as being driven by his agent but the act of being ignored at a time when you are young, talented and patently good enough would have been enough to make someone angry enough to leave. After all how many of us have felt frustration if overlooked at work. Pogba may still want to prove he could do it on our stage, to show SAF how wrong he was but I can't see it, sadly. We all make mistakes, that was a big one from SAF yet we should remember he got Januzaj right.

That's right red man most of it was about the money and agent at the time. You were right about my picture being of a certain 70's centre ward if I knew how to upload it . I've had a go anyway

He actually never played januzaj haha moyes did only good thing he did

Reddevil0690

I may be wrong but SAF would have been the decision maker to bring Januzaj to the club and did he not make Adnan a sub in his final game at West Brom to give him a taste of the first team?

19 Jul 2014 15:36:25
Let's be honest, without Fergie we would probably not be the most successful side of the last 20 odd years. He was a genius at getting the best out of his players, but he also was guilty of some serious howlers.

1) getting rid of Stam was a mistake.
2) not signing Van Der Saar as schmeichels replacement.
3) believing djemba djembe was the new Roy Kane.
4) Believing David bellion was the new Thierry Henry.
5) trying to turn veron into a dfm.
6) Pogba.

Enough said. We all have good and bad points. Luckily for our club Fergies good points delivered a truck load of trophies that most clubs can only dream of.

18 Jul 2014 18:11:57
Tonight's burning question is, has Ash.da.1 calmed down yet or has his head exploded? Hope you're ok mate.

Haha he's a cracking poster but I miss I am kloot and zee's inspiring posts.

I'm ok mate,
But not with utd lack of transfers.
If you went to watch games at OT
Last season, you will know what I'm talking about.
Mr woodwoody and yanks need to act fast before we end up with another bush head.

Ash, you are a star, particularly like the Mr Woodwoody name, I think it may stick. You will however have to explain bush head to me. I'm guessing you mean anothe traffic bollard like Fellaini

Totally agree ash .

18 Jul 2014 21:46:55
Soory ash but we have just signed 2 great young players and more to come. Not sure where your issueis

Bush head is Fellani.
If you ever get a chance
Pls tell mr woodwoody not to make mistake again like that on transfers.

18 Jul 2014 17:46:59
Vidal has come out and said he 'could remain with Juventus for the rest of my career'. He is expected back for training on the 28th July, I expect his future won't become any clearer until then.

18 Jul 2014 15:35:09
The one thing I am realishing under Van Gaal is having more power in the dugout lower teams like Leicester and Crystal Palace will be less confident of getting results than they were when Moyes was in charge and tactics to nulify the opositions danger men

18 Jul 2014 14:59:33
No Anderson, Bebe, Powell or Henriquez on the U.S. tour. Also no Wilson which is a big shame.

I guess that means Bebe will be sold soon enough. I just hope that Powell and Henriquez are being sent on loan rather than sold. As for Anderson, I think van Gaal was smart not to bring him. The best chance we have of selling him is if people forget how crap he really is. Plus I imagine that if he started getting stuck into the local cuisine, we'd struggle to fit him back on the plane home.

They couldn't find him danny he was still in the all you can eat chinese on portland street 2 days later.

18 Jul 2014 15:08:52
Danny,

Just laughed out loud at that mate, so simple but effective.

18 Jul 2014 15:42:05
Apparently he has a calf injury that's why he's been left out. Shocker.

You misheard, he injured a calf and missed the flight because he was butchering it for steaks.

'Calf Injury' I assume means:- injured whilst eating a calf, half a pig and two legs of lamb!

What you are saying is that he ate an entire calf and can no longer move

18 Jul 2014 17:05:23
You know what, I was so close to putting a calf joke and thought no, its too obvious ;)

18 Jul 2014 14:00:10
I am laughing at how some are starting to panic now about how we haven't signed anyone. Its almost as if you have forgotten how much we spent on 2 players before the manager even got here! Do you all really think it would be that easy to sign Vidal, Hummels and Reus? I don't and most of the time big signings take much longer unless more is payed than the club value the player at. If the club threw £60m at Vidal and £35m at hummels then I am sure they would be in our kit right now.

Of course then half of you would be like 'oh dear now we have lost all our money and we have payed too much'.

The club will be trying to get these players for as cheap as possible without trying to turn to second rate players just to make fans happy. Plus add into account we are not in the champs league, clubs we are trying to buy off are and don't want to sell and teams like Madrid just buy everyone in sight making life even harder.

To sum up I want to stop reading people posting football manager messages about the glaziers ruining our club or Eddy not buying everyone without negotiation and finally last rule, stop reading into what certain sites and papers say. Its funny how we believe everything we hear. I have probably read 100 rumours saying Vidal is signed and 100 saying he isn't so make of that what you will.

18 Jul 2014 14:46:05
1red,

This happens every year we buy players early and it annoys me each time. People come out and say 'we need to get players in as soon as possible' then when we get a few in early they start moaning we need to buy more players.

Even if we had signed 5 players at the start of the window people would still be saying we are desperate for more players, that's just how it works. It is the same as people ignoring the players we have at the club as if they don't exist when saying what we need.

HMM not sure where you are getting this. You both read and post quite regularly. BEFORE the end of last season the consensus on here was 5 new players 1 LB, 1 CB, 2 CM and a pacey forward/winger. I admit some were saying another CB and a RB but the overwhelming majority wanted 5. I have already posted Vidal along with Shaw and Herrera would be a great window.

Absolutely many of us got "Vidal Fever" Ed004 is getting therapy for it as I write this.

If any of you really believe we will make no moves or enquiries for players, behind the scenes, for the next few weeks, while LVG assesses our squad. I have this tooth from "the tooth fairy" I'd like to sell you.

{Ed004's Note - The therapy is intense atm. I have to spend hours every day with the Chelsea fans being told that Vidal ain't coming and they're getting Pogba}

18 Jul 2014 15:21:59
Grund,

Was that on the correct thread mate? Where did I say we won't be making moves for players. It is quite obvious that we will be and that LVG was just 'saying the right things' yesterday, I have posted this further down.

Grund, I don't mean that I don't think anyone else is coming in I mean that people should stop expecting to wake up every morning to a new signing.

Grund, you must have a different tooth fairy to me. Mine takes them away :)

18 Jul 2014 13:23:18
Seems Like a Decent squad being brought on the US tour.

Looks like Zaha has earned a spot too
I hope he gets his opportunity and Impresses Mr LVG

Anyone else feel he deserves it?

Thing is even if he has a good tour what does it tell van gall? he played well on last years tour under moyes and never got a look in all season, he then was loaned to cardiff and soskjaer didn't seeem to take to him either. he has ability but there is a deeper lying problem with him somewhere and if its anything to do with attitude then i'm afraid he is history with van gall in charge.

Not sure he has earned a spot, and it is more a case of LVG bringing everyone available so that he can have a look at them and make his own decisions.

I don't think anyone can judge if he deserves it, he has had very limited play time with UTD. I would like to see him given a chance but if rumours are to be believed he is on his way out.

There a so many differing reports

What I saw was Moyes was a afraid to take a risk and Solksjaer was in a relegation battle who probably wanted to stick to his core team.

Now I Know Moyes took a Punt on Januzaj and it worked out but he also had very little game time after he signed a new deal.

Maybe Zaha did throw his toys out of the pram but I don't think he would of with Fergie and I think with LVG's appointment he might adjust his attitude as he knows its a my way or the highway situation.

I think if his attitude is right I think for pure football reasons he deserves to get game time to Impress both Professionally and Personally.

We will probably find his attitude stinks as the rumours say

18 Jul 2014 12:58:53
Just wanted to pay tribute to someone who I consider the best CB I've had the privilege of watching in my lifetime. For me Rio really changed the mold when it came to defending, he had it all in his prime. His grace on the ball & his passing ability were that of a midfielder, his positional sense & awareness was excellent. Then there was his pace! Absolutely electric in his prime, would show the striker where to go, give him a start & still nip in ahead of him & dispossess him. Good luck Rio you'll br sorely missed.

who do you think are the best 2 CBs we've had? It's hard since we've been blessed over the years in that position but for me it's Rio & Stam/Vidic

Utd have had some top CB's in the past, hard choice.
Stam stands out for me but Rio/Vidic/Pallister/Bruce are not far behind.

Got to admit I also loved watching Staam, but my favourite all time defender has to be Martin Buchan. He was a Rolls Royce of a player in an era when there were some real hardmen & cloggers around.

Stam was a beast. I liked Pallister too.

Gotta give Big Gordon McQueen a shout, I was only a young lad at that time but I thought he was the bee's knee's.
Good shout for Buchan.

18 Jul 2014 14:47:52
Middleton he was before my time but my old man always raves about Buchan, from what I've seen he reminded me of blood & thunder defender.

He was far from blood & thunder but he could put his foot in when needed. He just seemed to stroll around the pitch & was never panicked, immaculate timed tackles or interceptions & was good in the air. We could do with him now.

My favourites were Stam and Paul McGrath.

Martin Buchan, very classy. Steve Bruce, best player never to be capped by England.

Middleton, had to read your post. I think Buchan was ahead of his time, he would be priceless today.

18 Jul 2014 11:42:44
Morning Ed's, just wondering after LVG's comments yesterday, should we not be expecting any marquee signings (anything other than 15 year olds) for the next 4 weeks or so?

Cheers,
Flynn

{Ed002's Note - You all seem to have heard different secret messages.}

You're better off just having no expectations!

18 Jul 2014 11:24:45
I've just watched the press conference, and I was very impressed by Van Gaal. The thing that struck me at the end was his reaction to the question on Rooney. When asked about experience he said that it isn't just about age or apps, but about personality and mental strength which suggests he doesn't necessarily think Rooney has it.

By all means, he could just be saying we have lots of youth players who could be key for us and restricting the captaincy to an Italian system (oldest is best)can be counterproductive but I can't help but think he was saying the other thing too.

I think a properly motivated Rooney is a fantastic prospect, and I don't think we should get rid of him however, he has shown immaturity over the last couple of years on numerous occasions and I think one of the most refreshing things Van Gaal said was insinuating that match winning performances don't necessarily always come from your most experienced/expensive players which is encouraging for those who aren't on stupid amounts of money.

Jack

18 Jul 2014 12:39:35
I've been saying it for a while I think LVG will sell Rooney and play Mata behind RVP and Welbeck. I wouldn't be too disappointed to be honest he has mugged us a couple of times now and never worth the £300k a week not even worth half of that. Don't be surprised to see AH and WZ given an opportunity this season
Just my thoughts

Deeps, you're needed here

18 Jul 2014 11:04:50
Come on utd get our transfer targets ASAP
Before they go, 3-4weeks is too long.
It's like going to supermarket at 10am on
Saturday, you will find everything on stock,
But if you go at 5pm most things are gone.

18 Jul 2014 13:05:05
You must go to different supermarkets to me, always nice and full whenever I go. Maybe chill out and stop pressing enter!

18 Jul 2014 04:17:50
Not a rumour but I do want to point out how great it is and how proud I felt seeing Sir Bobby Charlton showing our new manager around and presenting him to the media. Its so much better than any chief exec or ceo doing it. It just shows how much our club values and respects its legendary players and Sir Bobby is one of the players who have help build this great club people are quick to criticise our club our own fans included but when the club does something right it should be appreciated.

Here here. Couldn't agree more & I said exactly the same to my mate during the conference.

18 Jul 2014 01:10:41
we lol enticed a world class manager but beleive me no world class players let me eat my words but u are all dreamers been in the k stand for the last 20 years so correct me if i'm wrong carrick will still be playing week in week out nani on left toni on right and maybe 5th if we are lucky haven't renewed my season ticket and I won't till the yanks go

18 Jul 2014 02:14:56
What's world class Sparky? i'm not sticking up for the Glaziers but I reckon some people ain't happy unless they have something to moan about. What about Mata? An 18 year old left back who is already one of the best around and Herrera who was one of the best midfielders in La Liga last season and who many reckon will be the lynchpin for the spanish team in the near future. that's 100 million spent in the last 6 months.

Transfer window isn't even shut yet why the doom and gloom. We have already spent fairly big and are in the market for more. Can only be a good thing have faith in van gaal and get behind your team

Carrick won't play week in week out for a while ;-)

An eleven of DDG, Rafael, Shaw, Evans, Jones, Carrick, Herrara, Mata, Rooney, Adnan, RVP would be an improvement on last season but still work to do in key areas imo.

18 Jul 2014 10:13:29
also carrick is out for 3 months injured and will take a while to recover due to his age so he won't be playing week in week out will her

I can understand your feelings Sparkey. For years the fans have been treated like persons but the suits at OT. Always an excuse for not buying top players, buying for the future etc etc. however, I feel a little more confident now that times are changing. No CL and 7th in the league has frightened the owners into action and perhaps now, we are going to see investment where it matters, in the team! United have been attracting sponsors from all over the world and the money is flooding in, but no CL has damaged the club. Sit tight mate, I now feel confident that in a very short time, United will be very watchable again, new, class players will arrive and United will be winning trophies again. Believe!

18 Jul 2014 10:56:06
So if being in the k stand makes your opinion more valid than others if you have not renewed your season ticket does that mean your opinion isn't valid anymore?

It is a good positive time for the club, I imagine the club are better off without you (season tickets sold out)

To fess
Have faith and we will be again in 7th.
Last year we all said the same.
In football world you don't spend money, you ain't winning nothing.
Unless only if your Alex ferguson.
Managers like pep, mourinho are so successful is because they had money.
You don't spend money, ask
Wenger what in the last 8 or 9yrs.

I have to admit I am worried as well. If we don't bring in another great midfielder and central defender we are going to fall short of the top 4 again this year.
I know that that the transfer window hasn't closed but if anyone on here thinks that we will get ingto the top 4 this season with the squad we have now is deluded.
Chelsea have brought in 4 superb players and in my eyes will walk away with the title next season. All they were missing was a forward that will score 20+ goals and they now have one.
Arsenal have invested in Sanchez and it looks like they are looking at Khedeira or another midfielder.
City are miles ahead of us anyway at the moment and i'm sure that they will start spending pretty soon and Liverpool are now investing the Suarez money.
We HAVE and I stress the word HAVE to buy a top class midfielder and a centre half for the season ahead. It's a must!

There WILL be transfers happening for us but after last year there is no way Utd are gona be so open about it. I can understand why people are getting twitchy after LVG saying he is going to take his time but after years of Sir Alex surely people must have realised by now managers don't tell the truth in their press confrences about things like transfers. I fully expect work going on behind the scenes for Vidal Hummels reus dimaria players of that calibre.

18 Jul 2014 13:07:28
Simmo,

I agree, and if me and you know we HAVE to buy a top class midfielder and top class defender I think maybe just maybe LVG has worked that out as well?!

Gds

No it doesn't give me the right but I'm a realist not a dreamerand u my friend if u think we can compete with city chelski and the goons next season u r sadly wrong not unless we get in the players we have been severely lacking in midfield since keano and Scholes y