Manchester United Banter Archive June 18 2014

18 Jun 2014 23:21:29
I have a really good feeling that United will sign Memphis Depay from PSV. I can't help but think that after todays performance and LVG's supposed love for the player, that we will go in for him. I have a feeling MD would welcome the jump from PSV to United eapecially with LVG as manager. Thoughts? Or am I just looking into things too much and convincing myself?

Congratulations on today's 'we should sign the player who has just had a good game' post. There will be plenty more in the coming weeks.

You should ask our resident dutch expert about him, van de fresh

Jred, what the one who "doesn't actually watch much Dutch football"?

Don't worry Fresh!, only messing. We all luv ya really xx

I'm here all year!

AJH. If you can understand my post and read PROPERLY you'll see that I said maybe LVG can have an influence on the transfer. It has nothing to do with me 'watching his first game'. Plus its a silly assumption for you go make that maybe I don't know Depay well enough to reinforce my belief. But ofcourse you MUST know everything about me! Fool.

19 Jun 2014 11:27:05
AJH,

That is some bite you got there. I don't think Tony meant anything bad about your as a person Joe, just every day there is a post about a player in the world cup and it is a running joke to take the mick out of it.

Fool. ;)

Calm down Joe, just having some fun. Must be a coincidence he had a good game yesterday - please tell us all about him

AJH, I am curious as to how your old man has progressed? Was he still MOTM last time he played? At this rate he should outdo Buttner.

Deeps.

18 Jun 2014 21:57:16
At least Mata and De Gea will be ready for preseason. Surely Mata will get a game against Australia. Perhaps De Gea too if fit?

Hopefully they'll both play. Am just glad the team I despised the most is the first out

Yeah, I'm pretty pleased they've gone out; I love a good first round upset.

Strange really because I really like Spain and spanish people. Guess I just can't stand Tiki Taka 'cos it bores me silly although it wasn't really evident from this Spanish team.

oh well, punishment for past crimes against entertainment I suppose.

19 Jun 2014 06:25:14
'Past crimes against entertainment '?

Spain and Barcas only crime was to be highly successful with their style of football , which at it's best was brilliant to watch. Boring is watching Moyes United team or Sam Allardyce's crimes against football .

Exactly bilko

And even if they were boring, it was not entirely their fault. Every single opposition they played against used to put all men behind the ball. Obviously the game would be boring with one side having all of the ball and the other side defending with 9 - 10 men.
The only gripe I have against them is all of the diving/play acting and the complete lack of a plan B.

Let's not kid ourselves. Spain were an incredibly efficient team over the last decade, but the whole point of tika taka is to drown the opposition out of the game by monopolising possession of the football. If people think that watching one team pass the ball around the middle of the pitch for 90% of a game while the opposition tries to chase them down is entertaining, they should probably just stick to watching training exercises instead of actual games.

Tika taka was anti-football: the whole idea behind it was to prevent the opposition from getting any time on the ball and, therefore, turn it into an one sided exhibition of passin instead of a two sided game. It was very efficient and very difficult to play against, but entertaining it was not. Thankfully the tika taka generation is on its last legs and younger, hungrier teams can but them to the sword.

19 Jun 2014 13:28:32
Danny,

I agree 100% with that explanation. Bayern Munich now try and play the same way under Pep, at Old Trafford last year I found them extremely boring and 1 dimensional and a better side than ourselves would have put them to the sword.

The reason Tika Taka has worked so well for Barcelona is because they have the x factor Messi who finished off a lot of the moves, without him at his best I am unsure how successful Pep would have been at Barcelona. I appreciate Iniesta and Xavi are quality players (in that system) but I feel they may have been found out if they ever signed for another club.

Spain will be back, they have a load of quality youngsters coming through, but don't forget until the last world cup and euros they have always been a team of quality players who massively underachieved and that is what happened again this time round.

19 Jun 2014 13:54:43
Barca at their best looked to play the same way home and away , always looked to impose their game on the opposition and always tried to win every game .They never 'parked the bus' or just knock it long into the corners . They had the courage and skill to pass out from the back at all times .
I kinda fail to see how that's anti football .
When they wiped the floor with United in two champions league finals , I would have given anything for United being the team playing that football

Nobody is saying that it wasn't effective or successful. But,

It's anti-football because the whole idea behind it is to stop the other team from playing by refusing to allow them any time on the ball. It's a strategy that focuses on wearing the opposition down by forcing them to chase the ball, and games are won by attrition rather than attacking dynamism.

If your idea of good football is watching 80 minutes of keep away punctuated by 10 minutes of incisive attacking, then tika taka is perfect. Personally I like to watch a game of football where two sides are involved, but hey that's just me.

19 Jun 2014 14:40:35
IMO the Spanish team suffererd from the effects of a very grueling season. La Liga was very competitive this year more so than any other year and there were a lot less easy games throughout the league last season and even towards the end of the season RM AM and Barca lost a nd drew games against opposition they were steamrolling in previous seasons. and as a result the Spanish players were a lot more exhausted than before.

RM and AM went all the way to the CL final also the players were shattered and mentally exhausted
This coupled with the inevitable decline of xavi who is the fulcrum of the team. At Barca yes Messi is the master but the team did not function at all last year because Xavi did not function. We saw it with Scholes, once the legs are gone at the highest level there is no way back.
Its the end of an era and it will be some time before a national team dominates over a 6 year period like Spain have done,
The style of play when at its best was unplayable and not boring but it became a little mundane towards the end of the era as other teams found the only way to cope was to put 10 behind the ball and let them keep it without much penetration

Danny

So your idea of football is to let the opposition have the ball every once in a while in the spirit of football.
Barca's football started off as very exciting but then every team against them started puttting all men behind the ball.So what were barca supposed to do?Lump the ball into the box?Or patiently wait and carve out an opening. It wouldn't be boring if you/i supported them.

My idea of entertaining football is that you attack and try to score goals, not just keep possession until the opposition wear themselves out. Direct attacking football doesn't mean that you're wide open defensively, there's obviously a balance. There is plenty of examples of teams that play attacking football without sacrificing defence: United during the late 90s, Real last season, and Bayern two seasons ago were one of the best attacking sides I've seen in a long the time.

The difference between these sides and the Barca/Spain style is they are prepared to take risks: attacking with pace and numbers leaves you open to counter attacks. But these risks make the game exciting, and a good attacking team will get the result 9 times out of 10. Tika taka is the opposite of this: it is about eliminating risks by holding possession in the middle of the park. If I supported Barca I'd probably be happy with the success but it doesn't make it any more exciting or interesting to watch.

19 Jun 2014 17:26:07
Barca / Spain constantly played the ball out from the back from the goalie on , even in tight situations. How is that not taking risks when most other teams would play it safe and knock the ball long .

18 Jun 2014 17:59:40
Evening lads

General question, who in today's football
Premier league based only. Who do you think united possibly missed out on and would off liked us to sign? 3 players only.

Yaya toure
Suarez
Kompany

Yaya
silva
hazard

18 Jun 2014 21:08:39
Willian
Kompany
Ageuro

Kompany to be fair was just an average midfielder who developed into a top CB.

If I could have three players it would be Aguero, Suarez & Fabregas.

Just thinking about the past couple of years we have missed out on Matic, Hazard, Fabregas. next year we will see how good our midfield Could have been!

If someone asked this question two years ago, most of us would have said Mata of Chelsea & Van Persie of Arsenal. Now they play for us :)

Yaya Toure
Cesc Fabregas
Eden Hazard

Kompany
Ramsey
Lukaku

Kompany was not a average midfielder to be fair he was moved there by Hughes he was a versatile player with loads of potential much like Jones and his best position was always centre back I knew before he came to city that he would be a class act and that's why city signed him

Cant say kompany or toure to be honest, toure was used as defensive midlfielder for barca, if he signed for man utd we don't know if he would have progresses'd into the midfielder he is today so kudos to the staff at city who transformed him. sydney makes a good point on kompany as well. i'd say missing out on hazard was a huge blow, suarez second, and silva the next, narrow escape = john obi mikel . phew

18 Jun 2014 16:48:09
Rvp will play well tonite, after all he rested himself well all year, didn't want to play for DM, if he played when he was supposed to and not faking injury and acting like a spoilt chil could we have got 4th place, should be good next year as he will be the teachers pet, if it was up to me he would be gone.

Fishing.

Luckily Leah it's not up to you.

There's no fishing only facts, I'm not on here to fish

If you're not here to fish, then stop carping on; it's not the right plaice.

You're right Leah. If it wasn't for RVP we would've been fine last season. He would've won most games on his own. Rooney, Nani, Carrick and Cleverley would've all played better, Evra would've returned to the form of 4 years ago and all would be rosey.

So, what are these supposed facts, i'll be glad to know

Mike b this is a banter page to give views and opinions, fergie got rid of Stam for less, theirs no carping on about it, that's why we finished 7th cause people didn't want to talk about it, it had a big impact on our season, you play for your club ang give 100%

Was this ever confirmed?I'm not arguing. I honestly don't know

Excellent Mike :):)

18 Jun 2014 19:58:14
Think you better re-read Mikes comment Leahy, clearly you don't know a great deal about fish.

Dj wher have you been hiding, the whole world and his dog knows that rvp didn't want to play for moyes, he is a pro footballer on big money that we can only dream about, playing for the biggest club in the world, and he behaved like a spoilt child, no respect for the manager or the fans that spend their hard earned money every week to go and watch him, and kids like my 2 who idolise him

I think you've got the definition of fact all wrong.

For Cod sake Mike, I can't believe he took the bait! Hook, line and sinker. He was talking a load of Pollocks anyway :)

Imightbesomeone, your sitting on both sides of the fence, one post your not arguing you honestly don't know, next post I got the definition of facts wrong if I did you tell me what they are, or do you honestly not know

Betty your like a fish out of water, you should be on a comedy page, your name on here is enough

Leah, there is no fact in that, only speculation. LVG. And RVP have both said that he has been no where near 100% fitness this season, and why would RVP score a hattrick against Olympiakos and thet fake an injury to not play our biggest match of the season vs Bayern?

The injury in question was his thigh injury that he was out with around xmas. The medical staff said he was fit he said he wasnt and went back to Holland.
The knee injury i'm sure was just a coincidence he returned to training the same week moyes got the sack

18 Jun 2014 14:30:11
Rumours in the Portuguese press:

United have agreed a deal for Gaitan from Benfica - cash plus Bebe.


Now we're linked with him every summer so I'm not convinced it's true. That said, to go from Sanchez/Robben to Gaitan as our winger signing, would be par for the course. after Hummels to Vermaelen.

There's a reason Gaitan hasn't left Benfica despite being linked with moves for 4years or so.

Not a massive Gaitain fan I must say. As you say, there is likely to be a reason why he hasn't left Benfica - either his quality or his price. Ourselves and Juventus have been strongly linked in the past.

If he was called van den Gaitain, he'd be exactly what we need ;)

18 Jun 2014 19:07:17
No thank you, move on

18 Jun 2014 13:45:51
A handy guide to Manchester United lack of summer transfers excuses:

June: The window isn't open. We're obviously working on stuff, but we can't announce it till July.
July: The window is just open, transfers take time, and the manager needs time to assess his squad.
August: The papers say that we're on the verge of some big signings so just be patient.
September 1st: Well there's nothing we can do about it now so just support the players we have.

That should save some of you some time over the next few months.

It is increasingly frustrating; but I think the new manager will have a big role in the negotiating process - once he takes over officially. Well, I am hoping he will. Either that or we have got some deals done, and are just waiting for the World Cup to end.

Last season's calamity was due - part - to Moyes' not wanting any of the player's the previous boss and chief executive had sorted out.

{Ed002's Note - Managers rarely get involved in any negotiation.}

Danny

Could definitely see this coming to pass. I suspect LVG will be our 'world class signing' this summer and last season's fiasco will be completely blamed on a poor manager rather than a combination of poor manager and past-it players.

LvG may make a couple phone calls, he has done already if rumours are to be believed, but other than that he will have no part in negotiations. Why would he? Many managers make personal phone calls to players, SAF visited their houses. But when negotiations start, it's up to Ed Woodward to sort out :(

Truth is MU have been trying very hard for several players behind the scenes. It looks like probably only Shaw is looking likely at this point, albeit not done. We need to pay top dollar this summer to attract the best, but I believe it's business as usual. Penny pinching and refusing to kiss agent's asses.

Wouldn't surprise me if LVG does though, particular with the guys he already knows well.

Danny, you missed a couple there. "It's world cup year, it was always going to be hard getting the players", "Let's wait for the winter transfer window. LvG would have had sufficient time to assess the squad by then", as if he is going to come from Pluto.

Deeps.

Deeps

Exactly. The squad has already been assessed and has failed the assessment - it was called the 2013/14 season.

Our LB (who'd been declining for about 2yrs) was at fault for many goals conceded (and his backup was even worse).

Our CBs continued to be injury and error prone.

Our Midfield continued it's 3yr+ trend of being completely absent.

Our wingers continued to be frustrating with no end product.

The assessment period is over - everyone knows what positions need an overhaul.

You guys crack me up, miserable sods all of you lol.

Dp, you forgot
"we're not in CL so it was always difficult to attract the right players"
and
"what can we do when clubs like Chelsea city and PSG pay silly money for players".

18 Jun 2014 13:40:43
Am I the only one a little worried we're not being linked with many midfielders? The only one really is strootman who's injured?

18 Jun 2014 12:08:13
I like the look of our fixtures for next season 18 from 18 I think before the first difficult game. Give us time to adjust to the new manager and system.

Arsenal at home the penultimate game of the season could be a very important one.

So you think we'll win 6 games on the trot while adjusting to your above mentioned new manager and system? The last few seasons in the PL have shown that every game is difficult for every club, the name of our club does not give us a god given right to win them all, no matter who the opposition.

Have to say I agree. We have to be near the top or even top by October. Nice run of games

18 Jun 2014 13:29:26
The Beast,

It really does not work like that mate, but the first 6 games are much more straight forward than last year. I would be happy with 12-15 points from the first 6 games, would give us a good platform, but we will be playing under a new manager with new ideas and a system that can take some time to get used to.

I love that we have more straight forward games to learn the system, and also that we have to play the bigger teams when the champions league / europa league starts, but we cannot be arrogant to say we will get 18 from 18, especially after last year.

Obviously I understand that it isn't as easy as just saying it. But if you look at each game stand alone you would expect us to win it. I would be happy with 15points, but those first 6 will be winnable even in transition and with our current crop.

18 Jun 2014 09:19:07
Long time lurker first time poster:
Surely this summer’s transfer activity is becoming more and more reminiscent of last year’s summer transfer debacle. A couple of tabloids indicate it is down to many players unwilling to commit before the World Cup but that hasn’t stopped Chelsea having a bit of a dabble and securing some signings already. Signings that Mourinho thought would strengthen the squad further, add quality and increase depth in certain areas. Sounds ideal and makes perfect sense yeah?!?
Rebuilding was a huge priority last season and Moyes did highlight players that would have made a huge difference in squad depth and quality but Ed Woodward’s business model clearly has no place in the modern footballing world. Paul Scholes in May 2014 stated "Edward Woodward has an awful lot to prove this time that he's good enough at his job. He has to bring the players in that the new manager wants”.
Obviously it is always a novel treat to have a gander at the rumours page and have a little bit of speculation but for Manchester United fans it is important to recognise that rumours and speculation have little or no place in the survival of our football club. Granted Ed Woodward has turned Manchester United into a proverbial money cow but he should stick to what he knows. marketing!
I think it’s a perfect time to introduce a Director of Football and I think it’s about time we reviewed our policy on the wage budget in order to attract players who may have not been willing to play a year out of the Champions League.

I'm hoping, that as a few have posted, we are waiting for LVG to officially take up his position, after the world cup, before we announce/finalise any deals.

Just thinking, last year, we could have had Thiago, Strootman, Garay and Coentrao if we had really tried and Herrera if we had paid the £30m makes me worried. I have no idea why we did not go all out for Kroos and Fabregas already this window. Ok Fabregas may have chosen Chelsea anyway and Kroos seems to prefer RM but when players of this calibre become available surely you have to go all out even more so when they are positions we need to address.

18 Jun 2014 12:47:15
Welcome to the site sneaky.

It certainly is time to panic, Ed knows nothing, we have not announced anything yet because Ed has sat on his arse at home since May.

In all seriousness, there would be more people moaning if the club were making all of their dealing public. I would imagine there are deals in the pipeline, and nothing will be announced until we have a manager in place. Looking at the fixtures we have a good start to the season, so the people moaning last year we needed to get players before the start of the season I imagine will be accepting that if we get the players in before the end of August it would be good business.

If Ed fails by the end of August then everybody has the right to complain.

Relax folks. Enjoy the World Cup. I am sure we will add a few players of quality.

In any event, be confident that even if we buy no one LVG will impose a system and instill enough confidence in our remaining squad to improve on last year's disaster. Expect big strides from Jones, Smalling, Rafael, Janusaj, some exciting cameo appearances from younger players, and a resurgent RVP.

The rebuilding process will happen - maybe not as quickly as you/we may want - but financially the Glazers have to get the club back into the top 4 on a regular basis.

Good post peashooter. I completely agree.

I have been doing my fair share of moaning; but I think that regardless of who we sign, we will still be a lot stronger next season, IMO.

We still have some fantastic player's, who I believe will much improve under Van Gaal.

An added bonus has to be our fixture list.
I know there are no easy games, but compared to last season, it looks a lot more doable; for I think it is imperative that we get a good start to the campaign and get some early momentum.