Manchester United Banter Archive March 18 2013

 

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18 Mar 2013 20:40:23
Regarding Martin ferguson being at Porto games and my post below, it is also reported that he may be following Moutinho and defour (haven't heard his name for a while and he happens to be starting most Porto games recently).

Supasub

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I thought years ago that we would sign Moutinho, 2009 it seemed very very likely. Defour has been of interest for years I think, how is he progessing? Strootman and a player like Moutinho/Defour/Cabaye/Modric is what I would like to see.

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18 Mar 2013 19:55:08
I seem to remember quite a while back someone posted that combative CB's would be a thing of the past with defenders needing to be able to bring the ball out from the back and tackling going out of the game etc.

IMO that has been shown to be untrue this season, in the EPL at least. Vidic being the best example, look at our defensive record since he returned. Rio and Evans have been great and can play the ball nicely but we are best with Nemanja alongside one of them. Then there's JT - you can slate him as much as you want but Chelsea's defense looks a bit toothless in his absence. Arsenal don't really have a strong, combative CB and look how toothless they look at times.

So I still think the best combination is one combative CB and one ball player (who is still good aerially and positionally). Hence, Vidic with either Rio or Evans as 1st choice.

This brings me round to my main point (in a long winded way!) - why I think Phil Jones should be seen as a CB in the long term. Smalling looks perfect to replace the Rio/Evans role and Jones looks perfect to take over Vidic's role. He attacks the tackle zone and throws himself in front of things just like Nemanja would. No matter how good we get we still need someone who's good at 'last ditch' defence IMO.

I do value Jones' contribution as a DCM in the mean time and it's good to give him games but I'd rather we buy 1 or 2 top CM'ers and see Jones as the long term parnter of Smalling or Evans (when Rio/Vidic are gone).

Any thoughts?

Believable17 Unbelievable2

Yeah, bang on HB.

Also, for 90% of our games we wouldn't need a DCM and would want more of a passer. Jones would quickly get bored of playing 10 games a season.

I think he'll be a very very good centre back in the future. He's learning his trade, and will also fit in well to the midfield for big Madrid/Barca type games.

DodgyBanter

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Agreed, DodgyBanter. To me, Jones is a great option as a DCM but only in a 3 man midfield as he doesn't have the technical ability or passing range of a full time CM. I think he will be a true beast at CB in years to come.

HBadger

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'Silk and Steel'

Hoppy

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18 Mar 2013 19:44:07
Hate International breaks mid season, would much prefer to watch the EPL than the circus we call our national team!
I'm a very passionate football supporter but I'm finding it hard to find any passion for England and can't see that changing any time soon.
Glad Rio has pulled out after the way he has been treated by Roy "I don't know how to attack" Hodgson.
We should be easily beating both teams but we will probably look amazing for 20 mins then makes it hard work and narrowly win 1 or 2 nil.

IHaveNoName!

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I'm sorry mate, but I don't know how anyone can 'lose passion' for their national team - it's a representation of national pride and who you are. You shouldn't be able to turn love for your country on and off like a tap

I live in a country with a sh!t national football team, but I still go and watch them at every opportunity, and always dreamt of playing for them. The green shirt means everything to me, despite our relative crapness.

I was in Spain for the glorious Espana '82 campaign, and times like that fill me with a pride that just can't be replicated elsewhere - and I was there in the Nou Camp in '99

I made sure that the first game I took my son to, was an international match, before I took him to Old Trafford, so he would try and imbibe the atmosphere and passion felt there. Even he knows the standard of football is better at OT, but he still now wants to go to as many international games as possible.

I don't know if this is peculiar to England or not - it seems to be, going by a lot of the comments on here, but I'm sure if you ask the majority of Scots, Welsh and Irish (North and South) on here, they would still feel national allegiance is the number one priority.

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As an Englishman I feel you have to have your nation at your heart. My dream in life from as young as I can remember was to play for England and if that was not possible to see them win a world cup before I died. There seems to be an English mentality with quite a few people that because we are not the best then why bother. Every footballers pinacle should be to play for their national side no matter how good they are and every fan should support their national side no matter what. {Ed007's Note - As a Scotsman (and to you Stevie) I have absolutely no interest in the Scottish national team or even the Eire team that a lot of Celtic supporters follow. The reason is that I find international football just so boring.
During World Cups or Euros I will pick and choose what games I want to watch but if I miss them I wouldn't mind. If anything I have a soft spot for Argentina, but that is only because two of the best (my favourite) players ever in Maradona and Batistuta played for them.}

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Bond - Argentina, mate? Nothing to do with annoying the English then :)

I would have thought the memories of Ally's army would have put any Scotsman off Argentina for life.

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19 Mar 2013 11:54:45
Try being Welsh we haven't qualified or even looked like qualifying for anything for such a long time. At least we have the egg chasing. We always seem to have a team with one great talent, two or three other good talents and then the rest are just league one or championship players. Its the same with scotland and northern ireland. Winning anything? I'd kill just to qualify! With the English I do think some of them get the humph because they can't win it. I think their sick of keep having 66 rammed down their throat and want to equal it but just can't manage it. Its either poor managers, poor players or just sheer bad luck. A large core of england fans look to be from the lower leagues going on the banners around wembley so as their clubs aren't successful they translate the desire for success to the national team. Then you have the fans like kloot and others from manchester and from liverpool who are club over country as an anti london thing. O but just to qualify for something!

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Noname, being Welsh too I share your pain - to qualify for a tournament would be something else! Thought we had a chance a couple years back with Bale, Ramsey, Allen all breaking through and Bellamy still in good form - but it's all gone t!ts up again, lol.

In all honesty though, international football doesn't interest me anywhere near the same as club football. Too many poor players and boring games. Too many pointless friendles and it's all too disjointed with teams only getting together for a week at a time and many players dropping out.

I get excited before a weekend of Premier League Football whereas I don't when it's international week.

HBadger

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19 Mar 2013 17:02:49
HBADGER I agree international weeks are dull because we have no expectations. If we were storming a qualifying group we'd get more excited. Imagine how the weeks building up to a world cup would be. Imagine the world cup record we could produce with all the great world class musical talent we have. We always seem to have a team with a couple of talents and the rest is rubbish. Look at the southall, hughes, rush team. Then poor old Giggsy had to carry the team with speed and hartson. Now its bale with just allen and ramsey who aren't the greatest. Caerdyff was rocking saturday after the rugby imagine it in a world cup.

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Tell me about it, would love to see the same atmos in Cardiff as there is for the rugby. It was mental! You're right about music too. If the world was run on music and rugby we would be world champs! :)

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18 Mar 2013 19:33:36
as long as we sign strootman i'd be happy, anything else is a bonus.
mick the red fireman.

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He's mentioned so much on here I'll now be really disappointed if we don't get him!

If we say it enough times we all start to believe it as fact! Done it with so many players.

I do think he is just what we need, could see him and Carrick playing very well together. But also him paired with Ando or Clevs would give Carrick a rest and still look strong.

Carrick can't continue to play this many games without picking up an injury.

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Is Strootman this year's Shnyder? :)

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18 Mar 2013 18:40:04
Sydney
You are going on about a player isn't worth X but is probably going to be sold for that value. Isn't it all about perspective? What the point of having a "worth value" if no club ever uses that figure. Or is it a reference where 10/20mil is added on to it. Sydney you're always going on about that player is worth this or that. In the end worth is determined on how badly a club wants a player and how much a club wants to hold on to him. Its not about how many goals or assists a player gets.

Sulei

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Sorry mate, don't mean to be rude, but what's your point? I don't believe Messi is worth £250m, but Anzhi were willing to pay it. I understand people on here believe Bale is worth £50m, I disagree. Isn't that what it's all about, difference of opinion?

Sydney!

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Yeh you're right about opinions, I was just trying to change yours.
By the way how do you base worth? For example messi scored 90 goals give or take last calender year, how much would you value him? If there were 5 messis. He wouldn't be worth 60mil but there is only one so demand is high.

Sulei

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Bale is not worth 50m as ronaldo was not worth 80m, but the price is dictated by the selling club, what syd is trying to say is, Bale could well end up selling for 50m but that is not what his value.
he is a 25-35m player tops, but to spurs he is worth more because they dnt have just another Bale in the rezzies to replace him with.
A players value is broke down into a mixture of things by the selling club when talks take place i. e league places potentially lost, CL qualification, Europa league etc, for example, Steven Fletcher of wolves last season cost sunderland 13-15m, but he is worth no way near that sum, but to wolves selling Steven Fletcher ment they had a big dent in there hopes of promotion in 1 attempt (and so it has proved), so to them a 5-8m player was worth to them what sunderland paid.

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Chris the REDman

Yes but what did you base this 5-8 million value on? the years remaining on his contract? the price of other strikers of the similar level sold before? and if so there value was based on previous players and so on.

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Cristiano was well worth the 80m real paid, every penny has been worthit for them, what are his stats, something like a goal every game and a half or something like that, ronaldo in my opinion will be the only player to go for over 60m until transfer fee's get ridiculously inflated and an average squad player that will usually cost 10-15m would bump upto 25-30 and the world class players would go from 30-40 to 40-90m football will go into a crisis, and we are powerless to stop our game being destroyed, gets me mad when city and anzhi and psg pay ridiculous prices summer in summer out, effing annoys me.

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Gareth Bale's independent valuation is £37m. That is his market value. But due to an inflated market and Spurs being hard bargainers he will likely sell for between £45m-£50m. Personally I value him at £35m-£40m with his British premium. Players like Hazard I would put in Mata's bracket of £25m, Moura in Oscar's bracket at around £20m. We know they sold for more, but that is another example of an inflated market and Sugar daddy owned clubs not caring about overpaying for players. So with Hazard & Mata rated at around £25m, I think £35m would be a fair price for Bale, £40m with his premium. But I would expect him to go for more.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - You appreciate this is all BS I assume Syd?}

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Didn't mean to slate your beloved Chelsea Ed, but Chelsea have overpaid for players i'm sure you would agree? Torres was not a £50m player even when in his prime. Clubs like Chelsea, PSG, Anzhi & City do not mind paying over the odds when the owners are footing the bill. It's true isn't it?

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - They are not a "beloved" Chelsea Syd, it's only a football team. I don't think I have ever said Chelsea has not overpaid on occasion. My point was all of the numbers you used are simply made up.}

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Didn't mean to slate your beloved Chelsea Ed, but Chelsea have overpaid for players i'm sure you would agree? Torres was not a £50m player even when in his prime. Clubs like Chelsea, PSG, Anzhi & City do not mind paying over the odds when the owners are footing the bill. It's true isn't it?

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - It is a football team Syd, hardly "beloved". I don't think you will ever find me saying that Chelsea and many other clubs have not "overspent" on occasion - it is simply a subjective term. My point was that all of these numbers you have given are simply made up.}

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Sorry Ed, didn't mean to send my post twice. I shouldn't have bothered with the figures and just said I believe Hazard should have cost in line with what Mata would cost etc etc. The £37m Bale valuation was from Transfermarkt, I know whatever a player is worth is whatever a club is willing to pay, but I thought it would be nice to put an independent opinion on it. I think I have just got too much time on my hands Ed, tending to my Peach Bhut Jolokia's and Yellow Fatali's isn't occupying my day ;)

That's what happens when you work til 9am, got the whole day to potter around with boredom.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - Transfermarkt values are simply made up numbers Syd - ignore them completely.}

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Ed, can you give us an independent valuation on Bale or does this just not exist? I guess it changes on a week to week basis perhaps?

While you are about Ed, any news on United? I know the summer is some way off, but do you know of any enquiries? Thanks.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - I have zero interest in the money Syd as it does nothing but confuse people now. There is nothing new I can think of aside from Eliaquim Mangala being looked at again.}

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Sydney

I think that's a fare price but what is this independent market value based on?

Yes I agree Cristiano for 80mil was a bargain, correct me if i'm wrong but isn't it true Real got all that back in a couple of months from shirt sales?

Sulei

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Independent market value is a load of balls
In this current market bale is worth 40+
If spurs put him up for sale at the end of the season I wouldn't be surprised if they got 50 mill, ridiculous amount of money but that's the way it is.

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I am sure SAF will pay 40 for him for spurs were willing to sell to us but will not happen. We were willing to pay 35ish for Moura last year so 4o million for bale on current form is cheap.

Shahram

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18 Mar 2013 18:24:46
So how come the press are not jumping on lampard for inciting the westham fans when he scored? If I remember right didn't Ferdinand get condemned when he celebrated in front if our OWN fans at the council house after being hit by a coin? If remember right the press tried spinning it round on our players, but because its that useless excuse of a midfielder lampard, nothing! There is such a ABU mantra in the press its unreal!
P. s well done rio for dropping out, I wouldn't touch england if I was him after the way they treated him! I see sly already trying to spin this!
Chris the REDman

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18 Mar 2013 17:24:23
Interesting to see the Assist & Score chats this year for us, obviously RVP has scored 23, Rooney & Hernandez have 16 each, but after that Giggs & Kagawa are tied on 5 a piece. For me, there isn't enough coming from midfield. As for assists, Rooney has 12, RVP 8, Evra 5, Kagawa 4 & Valencia 4. So whatever you say about Rooney, he has made a big contribution to this title haul. There is a lot wrong with him, and he has genuinly been poor, but without him we could be 16 goals and 12 assists worse off.

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That shows we need a few more goals/assists from midfield but a whole load more from the wings. It also shows (as you say) that Rooney has made a valuable contribution yet again, whilst admittedly not being on top form. We've been lucky he's popped up with quite a few since RVP has gone quiet on that front.

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If we could get a winger that gets us 15 a season and then the others chip in with 6 or 7 then we would be a much more complete team.

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Bale it is then ; )

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I think we will see a lot more from Kagawa next year, I think he's a great little player and we will really see what a player he is next season.

Sorry to butt in on your two's conversation, almost turning into a Fresh and HoneyBadger site. The new ant and dec :)

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Great. They're Ant and Dec whilst Stevie and I are Waldorf and Statler

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Good point Ports I'm a huge fan of Kagawa regardless of his little impact so far. I hope and think he be a top player next year and should be able to chip in with goals/assists.

Bit rude butting in though ;)

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I agree Port, I think Kagawa will get to double figures, RVP to 25, Rooney another 20 and then Lewandowski with at least 15 if we sign him. Zaha might just surprise us as well.

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Which one's which? Ant & Dec always stand the same way to avoid confusion.

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I can live with being dec, even though he is shorlike me! I say this mainly because he did well to get Georgie Thompson haha.

Fresh!

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18 Mar 2013 17:11:03
Whilst I think we will sign 1 or possibly 2 central midfielders this summer, I have to hand it to SAF. A lot of people said that SAF didn't sign a CM in Summer because he was stubborn. If that is the case, then I think he has proved his point that the squad is more than capable of winning the League with what we have. Ultimatley, the great man was right - however, there is no way that he will rest on his laurels. He knows we have toppled City, but they are going to make a big splash this summer and a ressurgence next season. I'm sure midfield reinforcements will be made (as well as elsewhere) - but you have to take your hat off to SAF this season!

Believable8 Unbelievable2

Well said. I try my best not to critisize the team and players but I have to admit that quietly I had little faith in our midfield to deliver the title this season. Luckily our forwards dragged us through until Christmas and the defence has stepped up since Vidic's return. And fair play to Carrick who has been in the form of his career. A big hat's off to SAF though for proving a lot of people wrong (if we do go on to win that is!).

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I think the good thing is that now SAF has proved his point, he will continue to strengthen the team and the midfield in particular.

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Yeah, credit to Fergie, I seriously hope we get an overhaul in midfield though this summer. 1-2 new, energetic and reliable bodies in there and we'd be a match for anyone!

RED_SKY

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The problem this season contray to what many think is not our central midfiled, but our wingers. Nani, Young inconsistent and Valencia looks a former shadow of himself. That has left us with Giggsy and forwards having to play wide for the team. that's the area that needs sorting

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I tend to disagree. I'm delighted with where we are but I think we have got away with it on a number of occasions. As we have said many times, we have not dominated teams this year like we used to and I thimk that has stemmed from a lack of control in midfield. We've also conceded possession superiority on a number of occasions which also suggests we have struggled to control games. Hats off to SAF for getting us 15 points clear but I genuinely believe our midfield needs a serious and urgent overhaul. Of course, I may be completely wrong :-/

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AJH I think that was kind of the point - that SAF has managed to pull it off (so far) as he claimed was possible, without buying that midfielder we all said we needed. I don't think anyone disagrees that we need to improve CM if we are going to step up to the next level. Perhaps a top winger/AM needed too.

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I think we are kidding ourselves if we don't reshuffle this squad in serious way come this summer. There are a number of reasons that leads me to believe a Strootman type purchase will not be enough and we need a lot more and here it goes.

1. The new TV package from what I understand translates to about 35 million pounds more per team starting next year, which will men all the teams in PL will have more resources to spend and strengthen their squads.

2. Man City will have major overhaul and will buy big with some world class players joining their squad and although this year has been poor, I expect them to be back knocking on the door next year.

3. Chelsea will be buying big and give Matta, Hazzard and Oscar another year to gel and they will be there challenging. Add a top strikers to that squad and a proper CB and they will be a handful.

4. Arsenal will spend given their cash position and will be better and very competitive. I have a feeling Goetze will end up at Arsenal.

5. Spurs will be buying and they will be better.


Now when you look at our squad, we have RVP who is 30 next year, Rooney who I believe his best years are behind him, Carrick who will be 32, Giggs 39, Rio 35. Whilst everyone talks about this player and that player, the facts are we are not going to have anyone coming through the youth ranks next year that will have an impact and be genuine starter and yes there will be one or 2 who will get the token starts in the league cup and few premiere league games but I don't consider them as being fundamental to the teams make up.


I would be highly disappointed if the summer is all about Strootman given our new sponsorship deals and additional tv revenue. We should have a 50 to 60 million pound transfer budget and with the outgoing players that should allow us to spend 80 to maybe 90 million total.

I am chuffed with how well we have done this year but frankly so many games have been quite ugly and poor but credit to the manager and the squad we have grinded out results and helped by the other top teams all having their own issues.

Shahram

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Shahram, good post, agree with all your points.

AJH

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Sharham

I tend to agree with you in theory but still I will retain my faith in SAF and what he deems necessary. 2 CM'ers, a winger and possibly a LB are all we need IMO but I won't be surprised to see only one CM arrive.

One thing I will say is every year we hear that United aren't spending enough and that by 'next season' the likes of Chlesea and City will have super squad having spent billions. We also hear that Spurs, Arsensal etc. will be pushing for top spots. But usually SAF brings us through and ends up successful over these other teams.

So whilst I do wish for a good level of investment and 2 CM'ers to come in I'm not going to worry too much about the other teams. City, for instance, may spend a lot but they might lose Silva, Tezez/Dzeko, Nasri etc. as well as their manager and it's not easy to rebuild a team from scratch.

HBadger

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More specifically, Sharham:

2. City will have a major rebuild and there's no guarantee they will be better from day one.
3. I doubt Chelsea will spend as much as last summer and will have yet another new manager. No guarantee they will hit the ground running.
4. We ALWAYS hear this about Arsenal, they always have cash but don't like going to the shops! That may well change this season or may not - but I do find it hard imagining Wenger going from a highest ever transfer fee paid of £15m to suddenly picking up a Goetze who could cost £30m+.
5. Spurs always spend money and usually sell the odd player too. They usually end up between 4th and 6th and it's hard to imagine them pushing much further IMO.

My point being that we always hear these things about our rivals but it rarely has panned out that way.

I agree that we need to strengthen and strengthen well to get to the next level (esp. in Europe) but won't worry too much about our EPL rivals.

I think one of the strongest points we have as a club/squad is consitency - in terms of players, staff, systems etc. If we can keep things ticking over and add 2 or 3 good additions I think we should be able to stay ahead of the pack (or at least in amongst it) in England whilst hopefully improving in Europe.

HBadger

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HBadger

If we bought 2cm, a lb and a winger I would be very happy. I just hope we buy proper players rather than pay for potential that is a hit and miss.

However, I don't agree with your views of the other top teams.

1. Chelsea in my view will spend and will have a top manager to go with it. Their owner loves winning and has no limits when it comes to buying players.

2. City will not go away. I live in Dubai and actually know the chairman of that club. The owners of that club will keep spending and they have very ambitious plans. They will have a clear out of players who are not earning their wage and will replace them with a quality players and most likely a new manager. Mancini is imo very poor and they will benefit from a management change. BTW there is high probability of Mourinho landing there.

3. Arsenal and Spurs will be better and here is another one for you the scousers will even be better.

Finally, there is not an honest soul that can say they expected our position in the league this year and the current gap. I did expect us to be up there and in the running but never expected this.

I have said many times before that I am not much into stats and the gap is deceiving and there are many games that I consider us fortunate to have squeezed out wins and it could have gone the other way.

I have watched enough football over the years to be able to tell the difference between a team that is in control of games to a team that is pushing itself to its limits to squeeze results and we are in the latter.

Whilst there is no doubt in my mind that the league is ours, we have some interesting games coming up with 2 games against chelsea and potentially 2 against man city and arsenal, which will be a good test to see how we close out the year.

Shahram

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Sharham

I don't deny that Chelsea and City will continue to spend money but they have always done so (in recent times). I just don't see it as a guarantee to success. Cheslea spent loads last summer and many were tipping them to run as title contenders but that slipped away quickly. We don't even know who their next manager is so I'd say things could go 50/50 with Chelsea. City will spend but they will also lose players. Who's to say the new ones will adapt quickly enough to make up for losses like Silva & Tevez who have been top EPL performers? I'm not saying they won't be there or there abouts - I'm sure they will - but again, their rebuild could either be successful from day one or could hit a few snags along the way.

Spurs, Arsenal and yes even Liverpool, will be trying to improve - but again they have been doing so for years. Arsenal are best placed to challenge in terms of finances but it will depend on whether they choose to invest in quality players for a change. Spurs and Liverpool both work on careful finances so much will depend on their nous in the transfer market. Still, I find it hard to imagine either of these 2 breaking permanantly into the top 3 as things stand.

I agree with regards United, we don't control games like we used to. Partially because of a weakness in midfield but also partially due to an improvement in the EPL's 'lesser' sides IMO. No game is an easy game now like it was sometimes in the 90's.

So I do think we need to invest and invest wisely. But my point is just that we hear exactly the same points you were making about other teams 'next season' on a regular basis but I don't think we need worry too much about others. SAF usually pulls us through and so long as he makes those few changes he feels neccessary I'm confident we will be OK, even if we don't match up star for star with the likes of City.

I hope we sign 2 midfielders and if I was in SAF's shoes I would do - but if he just gets the 1 I'll still have faith that he knows what he's doing and will try not to worry about City signing Falcao or Chelsea signing Cavani. We have a great squad that needs a few additions and like I said in a previous post we have consistency on our side which I feel can be an advantage.

(sorry for rambling on! :) {Ed004's Note - I reckon this summer if we made 5 signings we could massively improve the team. I reckon a left back is needed, 2 central midfielders, and possibly two wide players however, still a left back, one midfielder and a left winger/right winger and possibly keeping Nani? Would improve us a lot}

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Pretty much agree Ed004.

What I'd like - LB (Shaw/Baines), two CM's (Strootman/Wanyama and Modric/Cabaye/Erikson), LAM (Bale/Rodriquez/Isco/Goetze) plus Zaha.

But I predict we will get - just one CM (Strootman), LW (Rodriquez?), Zaha and a random signing we don't expect (possibly a youngster)

I'm not expecting too much so will be delighted if I'm proved wrong!

I wouldn't be totally against keeping Nani (depending on our other transfers) but I still expect him to leave TBH. {Ed004's Note - Oh I expect Nani to leave and do people on here think Eriksen is suited to a) the premiership? b) to playing in a two man midfield along side someone defensive such as Wanyama? c) would he want a move to England?}

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TBH I've not seen lots of Eriksen but put him there as an example of an available midfield target who is creative. Modric would definitely be my choice but I think it unlikely. Cabaye looks decent but not in Modric's league IMO. From what I hear Eriksen would be better in a 3 man midfield, concentrating more on going forwards - so he wouldn't be my pick at all. But knowing SAF he will sign him and try to mold him into a 2 man CM like he did with Ando! :/ {Ed004's Note - I would love a midfield of Modric and Witsel but I just can't see either being available and I think Anderson was ruined slightly by moving deeper though if he wasn't as lazy and unlucky with injuries there is no knowing how good he could have been}

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Agreed Ed4, either Witsel or Khedeira (spelling) alongside Modric is pretty much the best midfield combo I can think of. Seeing as most of them are unavailable to us we need to look for the next best options. And if we can't get someone as strong as Witsel/Khedeira then we need to go down the route of 2 more all-rounders IMO rather than one holder and one creative. Which is why we come back to Strootman, he is a decent all-rounder who could either replace Carrick or sit alongside him.

HBadger

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ED004 I would also love a witzel and Modric addition. I think whilst we all believe we need a 2 midfielders, it does come with a host of issues.

Assuming that carrick is also in there that means we will have a 3 man midfield (which I prefer and allows us to defend higher up the pitch but need to have CB's that have some pace and don't get beat for pace with over the top ball. This would mean we play win one genuine striker and 2 winger/forwards ( again my preference).

If we were going to shift to something like 3 man midfield, how do we play rooney, RVP, Hernandez, Welbeck as realistically after first and second choice the rest will almost get no game time.

Rooney on the left or right wing is a no starter and he loses all his effectiveness and much better through the middle. Whilst welback can play on the wings, he is not a good enough passer or crosser and his finishing is rubbish. He does not score enough, hence what do you do with him.


The whole system will depend on quality wingers/forwards who can score goals. Rodriguez on the left with Zaha/Nani might be an interesting set up.

Shahram {Ed004's Note - Isnt Smalling meant to be very fast? I reckon he would be able to cover for the speed of Vidic who isn't the slowest of defenders compared to others. Also I don't think we would play a 3 in midfield unless we were playing in Europe away so strikers would still get a lot of game time and Rooney could play in a 3 man midfield IMO and welbeck can play out wide}

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Sorry to butt in ;) but I don't think we would switch to 3 in midfield permanantly either, just in certain games.

As you say Sharham our forward line isn't set up for a 3 man attack. RVP and Rooney both need to play centrally and our wide men aren't prolific enough in front of goal.

What's likely is we will buy one CM to sit alongside Carrick then play Jones in with them if necessary IMO. Personally, I'd prefer if we bought 2 new CM's so they could be rotated more and could form a 3 man midfield without Jones if necessary.

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18 Mar 2013 15:50:10
In case anyone needs cheering up this Monday just remember if Liverpool won all there remaining games (I know, just pretend for a second it's possible) they would have 69 points, which is 5 points less than our current total.

Believable13 Unbelievable1

Don't forget they are in a transition period. Next year could be theirs!

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18 Mar 2013 15:35:29
Today Neymar has said
''I dream of playing Europe, for a big club like Barcelona, Real Madrid and Chelsea'' Neymar told Esporte Espetacular
Chelsea really a team struggling to get top 4 they have a new manager every year and no history what so ever! Ya everyone would understand Real Madrid and Barcelona but of all other european teams chelsea!

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Yeah have you not heard they have a good project apparently lol

Giants14

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They have a core of Brazilians there now though, Ramires, Luiz, Oscar, Piazon, so not all that unlikely for him to name drop Chelsea.

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Yes, all what u said is true but you are the only brat on this planet who will never admit Chelsea is a big club in europe - ask anyone to mention the names of the big teams in the famous epl and after the mention of United the next team will probably be either City or Chelsea, stop being a pussy and admit they are not that useless or are you frustrated about the fact that Neymar did not mention the name of United?. Andy H

X cube {Ed004's Note - Personally wouldn't want Neymar there are better out there for the money and not sure he would suit the premierhip}

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This is a majorly petty post. Just because Neymar didn't mention United but mentioned Chelsea you criticise him? I'm sure that doesn't mean he doesn't view United as a big club. Grow up.

s20c

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He mentioned the clubs that have all made their interest know.

He's over hyped anyway.

JK92

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18 Mar 2013 14:41:45
My ideal summer transfer window at United would be this.

OUT:
Scholes - retired
Fletcher - retired
Valencia
Anderson
Young
Hernandez

IN:
Luke Shaw - Southampton
Jack Wilshere - Arsenal
James Rodriguez - FC Porto
Robert Lewandowski - Borussia Dortmund

Believable6 Unbelievable12

Are you mad? Why Hernandez out?

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Because he's brining in lewandowski

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Hernandez is a good goalscorer, but offers very little else. If we got a decent sum for Hernandez and replaced him with a much more rounded striker in Lewandowski then I would do it in a heartbeat.

s20c

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We have to think with our heads not hearts, Lewandowski is better than Hernandez, end of. Lewandowski IN with Hernandez OUT improves the team which is what matters. Would love Shaw as well, Wilshere is a pipe dream, he could be another Hargreaves anyway. {Ed004's Note - How much would people want for Hernandez and how much would Lewandowski cost? I reckon Hernandez would cover the cost of signing Lewandowski}

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Easily Ed. We may even have a few million left over purely for the fact that Lewandowski's contract is running low.

TK-Red {Ed004's Note - Although if that was the case even know it would not affect the net spend it would probably still affect who we bring in as I can't see more than 4 first team players being bought}

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Fresh
I don't think it's quite that simple, if you look at the way Dortmund are set up the players they have its no surprise the amount of goals lewandowski has scored, which is a good not great amount. I think Hernandez would of scored just as many if not more than him,
Lewandowski is a good player but massively over rated on this site imo

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We probably massively underestimate Hernandez on here and probably overrate Lewandowski on here. Nevertheless, I still think the deals will be done.

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If we sign lewandowski I think Hernandez will be on his way

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Lewy will want to start most games, which given RvP & Rooney in his way isn't realistic.

Hernandez doesn't publicly moan about game time. I get the impression Lewy would.

Hernandez is prem proven. Just because Lewy can score goals in a Dortmund team with those players doesn't guarantee he will score here.

I'd vote to keep Hernandez and not buy Lewy. 2 midfielders and a winger are more pressing than playing round with strikers who don't need to be changed.

If Hernandez asks to go then its a different story, but you've got to be looking at £25 million. Proven goals scorer in one of the toughest more physical leagues.

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Bang on Mort, agree 100%

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Mort I would agree as well I think the front 4 gives us a bit of everything front 5 if you include kags, that's why the lewandowski rumours have never made much sense to me unless a player is wanting to leave.
I honestly think we bought rvp instead of lewandowski in the summer

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18 Mar 2013 14:18:30
Eden Hazard is one player Fergie shd have signed at all cost. A real talent and modern footballer! He's pure class.
ManUp

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So how many premier league medals will he have at the end of the season?

We tried to sign him and he chose to go somewhere for more money, we forget about him and move on.

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Pure class? Do you know how he conducted himself in the summer? He fits in well at Chelski.

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How can you disagree.

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Great player that will only get better but a rubbish off a character and very cocky.

Shahram

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He is a great player, but unfortunately we missed out by offering less wages

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The boy is a proper Chelsea player! If he was half as good as he thinks he is, he would be twice the player he is!
Chris the REDman

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Hazard started the season on fire, but he's been very, very inconsistent. Between October & now he has produced on rare occassions. No great miss so far imo.

s20c

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Agree with the replies - will be a great player but not the right attitude for United imo. It's funny how this post comes after he played a stormer on the weekend and not before Christmas when he was a little anomonous. Don't get me wrong he is very talented but there are many other options out there (who hopefully won't warrant such big wages and agents fees).

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19 Mar 2013 11:52:06
I have never known a player to announce his new club on twitter. He is very arrogant and up himself.

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18 Mar 2013 13:07:48
Ed do you think its likely that Ando will move on in the summer?

Dan {Ed004's Note - I reckon there is a good possibility that he will be sold}

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I really don't see why we can't sell anderson and bring in Wanyama, and also bring in strootman.

Fletcher isn't going to be the player he was, maybe he'll even retire?

Scholes will probably retire.

this leaves us with Carrick, Cleverley and Giggs, Kagawa is capable but he's an attacking player we need to keep him like that.

JK92

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Nobody wants Anderson he doesn't really offer anything. He has the talent for many lower european teams, but do you want to pay his fee and wages. The man struggles to stay fit for more than 10 games?

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JK92, that would be ideal, still don't see it though. I could perhaps see a move for Cabaye happen.

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Agree with aaallj5 - the clubs that could afford Ando's wages don't want him, the clubs that want him can't afford his wages.

TommyH

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18 Mar 2013 11:51:58
Just going to say what I think will happen this summer regarding transfers:)
Outs: scholes, bebe, macheda, (couple other young finge players), sadley fletcher, lindergard and nani although I'd rather young or Valencia.

Ins:possibly a keeper, young CB (zouma?), strootman, Rodriquez, lewi.
GK. if lindergard does leave we will obviously go for another keeper and the only one we've been linked with is begovic and I can't see why do we need to spend around 10m on a second keeper?
Defence! And we have enough Defenders and cover for a another season but I can see fergie signing a young CB.
Midfield! I can see strootman joining and I think we need another cm but I can't see us buying 2 first team CM's in one window when we haven't signed one for years.
Wingers! we've signed zaha which I'm very pleased about he looks very promising and I'd love us to sign bale or Ronaldo but honestly can't see it happening, but who better to replace the one and only Ryan giggs with than another welsh superstar? But being strongly linked with Rodriquez for 35m euros he can't be a bad player! Not seen him but I'm sure he's a great talent.
strikers! I really don't think we need one we have a bit of everything up front with RVP Rooney Hernandez and welbeck but I have a strong feeling we will sign lewi!
Thank you:-)

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Elroy!

Just a mention on Valencia, he is having a bad season and is off form. But I can't but help think it's a blip, like Hernandez had last season, everyone says he trains like a beast so I think he'll work his way back into form and come back stronger next season. But I don't think anyone can see what Young is bringing to the squad at the moment.

I think your probably right about most of the rest, but I think we will sign one 1st team cm and one Squad cm even though i'd love to see Powell or Petrucci given a go instead!

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All the evidence says we will sign Lewandowski. I defo think Powell will be given loads of first team action next season. He performs best when on the big stage IMO

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Everything is pointing to Powell getting a Loan. I'd like him to play loads of first team games though.

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Powel is far from being ready for loads of first team action and will probably go on loan.

Shahram

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18 Mar 2013 11:48:05
Daniel levy believes Gareth Bale is valued at £70M

Well I just found out something pretty interesting about 3 of the top forward players in the world, well 1 is potential;

- Neymar has a buyout Clause of £61M
- Falcao has a buyout Clause of £52M
- Isco has a buyout Clause of £30M

It just astounds me that 2 players rated more highly than Bale are cheaper and one with just as much potential is more than half of that valuation.

Believable6 Unbelievable3

There is a difference between what bale is worth and what it would take for levy to sell him.
Unlike the 3 players u have mentioned spurs don't want or need to sell and the player doesn't want to leave.
Bale is a 50 mill player for me but anybody who wants him will have to pay over the odds at the moment

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He didn't look a £50m player against Liverpool or Fulham. £35m-£40m tops IMO. He would sell for more as like you said Spurs do not need to sell and the market can be crazy. However finishing 5th may change things for player and club.

Sydney!

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Plus at the moment bale is better than isco and neymar weather you like it or not plus he's proven in the hardest league in the world.

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Syd
Neymar didn't look a 60 mill player against England
falcoa didn't look a 50 mill player last night or for the last few weeks, he's having a bit of a bad patch bit like Rvp
Daft way to judge a player really.
When you take everything into account age potential etc etc and then look at how much other players are going for I would say 50 mill is about right.
I honestly do see any better young players out there at the moment, neymar will go for mega cash but I think bale is easily at the same level. {Ed004's Note - I wonder how much people on here would be willing to spend on Bale and if Spurs are interested in Young anymore I would happily involve him in a deal. However, my issue with Bale is... Would he be as good as he is currently playing for a top team that have other top players and Bale wouldn't be the main man and have a team built around him? At the minute he is playing behind the striker for Spurs but would he still be as effective playing out wide and being allowed to inter change with a front 3 in a 4231}

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Neymar isn't worth £60m and Falcao isn't worth £50m IMO. Bale isn't worth £50m either. But it wouldn't surprise me if these players went for those prices.

Sydney!

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Ed
any team that spend 50 mill on a player would look to get the best out of him and would play him in his best position
.
I don't think bale will ever be a United play but if its true that United were ready to pay 35 mill for Lucas, well I would say that would off been a bigger gamble than 50 for bale.

Truth is with the exception of ronaldo and messi I don't think anyone is worth 50 mill but the transfer market is mental {Ed004's Note - I'm not sure the team that are showing the most interest in him appear to be Real Madrid who are also very interested in Silva and they have Ozil along with Ronaldo, I can't see him starting out left or central}

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To be honest Ed, I don't think it has much to do with what we are willing to pay. If Spurs held out for £33m for Modric, then I think £50m is probably a bit optimistic. Spurs wanted £40m from any EPL team looking at Modric, so I think we'd be looking at closer to £60m-£70m to even have a chance.

That's just silly money for any player, and would be our entire transfer kitty and that's with selling some players. Is Bale worth £40m? I'm not sure. He's top class but needs a free role like Ronaldo, to get the best from him the team needs to be built around him. Bale is certainly one of the best in the league but I'm not sure if he's at the level where you set up your whole team to suit him.

Regardless, there is zero chance of the lad coming to us in the foreseeable future so can we might as well put the speculation to bed now before this drags out.

Danny Pughnited

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Lol Syd - what has RVP looked like in his last few games? I didn't realise you get valued lower after a couple of quiet games!

HBadger

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Ed004

I'd take Bale for £30m + Young any day. Maybe even go slightly higher.

HBadger {Ed004's Note - I reckon you'd still be looking at closer to 40 million}

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Difference being that nobody is saying RVP is worth £50million.

TK-Red

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2bh we got an over inflated market so all prices are way over the top plus most importantly when United come calling every players value grows. Not to mention the Levy united thing +£20-30 million just out of pure spite when he sees us calling!

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HBadger, I haven't devalued anyone on the basis of two bad games. I genuinely value Bale at £40m tops.

Sydney!

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{Ed004's Note - I wonder how much people on here would be willing to spend on Bale and if Spurs are interested in Young anymore I would happily involve him in a deal. However, my issue with Bale is. Would he be as good as he is currently playing for a top team that have other top players and Bale wouldn't be the main man and have a team built around him? At the minute he is playing behind the striker for Spurs but would he still be as effective playing out wide and being allowed to inter change with a front 3 in a 4231}

Ed he would be better if he had better players around him. Imagine him in a united set up with RVP, Nani/Zaha Rooney/lewandowski with a couple of good midfielders. As a team defending how do you cover that sort of personnel. At the moment when he gets the ball there are 2 or 3 players surrounding him and that leaves a lot of room on the pitch for other players.

I am not saying he is worth what levy is asking but he is a hell of player and deserves a major premium to guys like Rodrigues and Neymar.



Shahram {Ed004's Note - But at a club like united or real would he see as much of the ball and would he be played centrally}

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TK/Syd

My point was that a player's value does not change based on 2 specific games. Every player has good games and bad games - so to say 'he didn't look like a £50m player in 2 games' is irrelevant IMO.

Regardless of what we paid for RVP - he has not looked like he is worth as much in the last few games compared to the start of the season. That was my only point, you judge a player's value by looking at form over time, age, ability and so on - it does not change on a 2 game basis!

Syd - as others have said the market is very much inflated so players will tend to cost more than they are WORTH. I did not think Lucas was WORTH what PSG paid for him, for instance, nor was Witsel worth what Zenit payed for him. If you want these type of players you have to pay over the odds occasionally. Or just stick to our guns, which is most likely.

HBadger

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Now there is a player I Like Witsel and prefer him to Strootman.

ED, I would stick bale down the left wing and with amount of movement that we have upfront it would be fun to watch the interchanging of players when we are going forward. What he does provide which we currently don't have is someone getting down the left touch line as both Welbeck and Young tend to come inside and makes our play very narrow unless Evra gets forward and that has it's own consequences.

Shahram {Ed004's Note - If Bale was signed I still think a left back would need to be able to offer width for when Bale comes inside looking for space and to link up with the player in the hole Rooney/Kagawa when they go out wide. The biggest problem in signing Bale is that it will take the majority if not all summer budget and I feel the right wing is letting us down the most as atleast Kagawa can play out wide left and come in, our right wingers have been very poor this season and Nani looks like he will be sold so by signing Bale we can't sort out the right wing unless Rooney is sold and Kagawa plays centrally and a right sided player is sold}

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HBadger, IMO a £50m player doesn't go a few games unseen at a crucial part of the season. I think that is what separates a £25m-£30m player from a £50m+ player. That's just my opinion though.

Sydney!

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I'd rather Ozil than Bale. I bet if we offered £25mil it'd have Real Madrid tempted. Then they could put it towards the £40mil capture of Bale. Bale will stay with Spurs another season if they get a top 4.

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Ozil will cost north of 30 million and he would be a dream signing but highly unlikely I would say. I think Real will move Higuain, Modric, Kaka and few more fringe players in the summer. Eds is Ozil available?

Shahram {Ed004's Note - Ed 2 has previously said Real would listen to offers of around 25 million Euros I think. However, if Ozil was signed and along with Kagawa I reckon we would have to play a fluid formation something I am not sure Rooney would suit. He isn't quick enough to make up for his dodgy touch}

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Ed I agree that if signing Bale it means no other signings that would be nuts. I would rather get a couple of really good midfielders and a solid left back and go with what we have on the wings if worst came to worst.


Shahram {Ed004's Note - The only way I can see this happening is if Rooney is sold to fund the move and therefore leaving the rest of the transfer budget available to make furthe signings. I reckon priority this summer is a left back, centre midfielder and a right winger. If Rooney was sold along I'd be happy to have Kagawa playing central for us.}

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Napoli president Aurelio De Laurentiis says Edinson Cavani will be allowed to leave the Partenopei this summer - but only if a club matches his €70 million buy-out clause

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Just want to add - I agree with Sharham's view of Bale. Obviously he wouldn't get as much of the ball at United but having better players around him (e. g. RVP to finish his low raking crosses) I think he would excell. This is of course academic though as I don't see us paying what Levy would want for him.

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Everyone talks about what a player is worth, without an idea of what they are saying.

A player is worth exactly what someone is willing and able to pay for them not a penny more or less.

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Bale wouldn't see as much of the ball here or at Madrid. He is the gem of the Spurs team, where as Rooney, RVP & Kagawa in my opinion are our gems and the players that can make us tick. The best that we could hope for would obviously be a front 4 or RVP, Rooney, Kagawa & Ronaldo. That would be incredible, but unlikely. Anyway. Cannot see Bale coming to us, if he leaves Spurs he goes abroad.

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Fresh why would not see a lot of the ball? at the moment we have young and welbeck on the left wing.

I can understand when strikers are not scoring but they do provide assists, Welbeck can't score and can't pick a pass to save his life. Young who in my view is a much better passer and better touch than welbeck also does not exactly offer a lot and hence everything we do is down the right and valencia is having a horrible season.

I guarantee you if Bale was down the left wing he would get as much or maybe more of the ball than rooney or some of the other marquee players.

Shahram

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18 Mar 2013 11:43:07
Hi Ed, Is it okay if I repost an post that I put up the other day for it only to be moved because silly old me forgot about not being allowed to put an actual team line up in? my bad.

I just think it'll get a few responses in the Banter section rather than the team section - as to my knowledge it's not exactly the most popular part of the site :).

Anyway.

"Hey guys,

I just thought I would give my opinion on the performance of our players this season.

Goalkeepers:

De Gea - IMO this boy has been 1 of the 3 best in the EPL this season a long with Lloris and Vorm. I stand by what I've said all along, this boy has Peter Schmeichel written all over him.

Lindegaard - hasn't really had much game time, but still when he has played he's look decent, Great Number 2.

Fullbacks:

Rafael - best RB in the league by a country mile, okay his concentration lapses but he can be forgiven for that. this season he's done well at keeping Ronaldo and Bale relatively Quiet.

Evra - I've actually been impressed, he's not a defensive wall but his attacking play has been decent and he's adding goals to his game. still needs to track back though.

Buttner - hm, unsure about this guy, still reminds me of a Clichy when Cole left Arsenal. very raw, very hit and miss but clearly potential.

Center Backs:

Smalling - hugely disappointing with the lack of playing time he's had, granted the other CB have played well but I thought this year would be his year.

Vidic - Still the best center half in the world for me. Back to his old self.

Ferdinand - well, I think we all expected him to play few games this year but instead he's been brilliant. he will 100% not be leaving Old Trafford this season.

Evans - Brilliant, just brilliant. we all raved about Jones and smalling but we've got someone who IMO is currently even better and at a similar age. fair play to the lad for overcoming his critics.

Jones - He's looked decent when he's played but a future of Smalling and Evans with Jones sitting infront does look incredible to me.

Central Midfielders:

Carrick - Can somebody explain to me how Gareth Barry ever played in front of Carrick? without a doubt the best 'Xavi' that England have. Proves again for the 2nd season why he's just as important if not more than Rooney, RVP, etc.

Cleverley - quite meh. I mean he's been okay, but he just reminds me of Park with a little less energy and a little more technical ability. He'll never be great but he's useful.

Anderson - sadly I think he's off this summer which in my books is a shame. Much like Kleberson if the injuries had never happened we could have had one of best attacking players in world football right now. But if Van Basten never got injured we wouldn't be saying Pele and Maradonna.

Scholes - I get that he's currently injured but I don't see what he's actually done this year. Complete legend and I would even go as far as to say he's the best DLP ever to play football. 1 year to many Paul, 1 year to many.

Wingers:

Valencia - I love how everyone is going on about how we should sell him because he's playing poorly. People have short memories in the football world. last season this guy was the best winger in world football, this season he's awful and we should pay someone to have him. He's playing through the Pain barrier, give the guy a break.

Giggs - just Brilliant. The best player on the park in the 2nd Leg against Madrid. He's nearly as old as SAF yet he continues to show us why we shouldn't say he's past it. If ever the word Legend needed to be used.

Nani - I have a feeling we'll see Nani back towards the end of the season, just a hunch. everyone has got bored of slating him and I think it'll help his confidence a little.

Young - Why did we buy this guy again? looks like an ant, plays like a hungover David Bentley. can't shoot, can't cross, can't pass and can't dribble. I'm actually being honest when I saw that Bebe looks quite appealing right now.

Attacking Midfielders:

Kagawa - little poor, but I think its just the style we play and the fact it's all new to him. however I do believe if he had signed for Arsenal in the summer he would be as good as Cazorla is now. He's done well with the restrictions he's had.

Rooney - I still want this guy gone, but he has contributed goals and assists this season. he may not be the 'old Rooney' but he's still pretty good at chipping in.

Strikers:

Hernandez - okay, he's not playing much, but he's managed to rack up 48 goals in 109 games for United since he's been here, incredible. this season he's even managed to get 16 goals in 28 games. so for somebody who hasn't really featured he has show us why he's arguably our most prolific forward.

Welbeck - as a winger I think we may have something, as a Striker i'm yet to be convinced. 2 goals all season in 33 games, even our 'awful' LB has managed to get 4 goals in 26. I'll support him but I'm yet to be completely convinced.

Van Persie - okay, the goals have dried up in 2013, but he's still playing really well. it also looks as if he's being asked to play relatively deep when Welbeck is starting. still be the difference for us this season and I'm more than happy with his contribute so far.

Summer Prediction time!

Ins:
- Strootman (£17M)
- Lewandowski (£20M)
- Rodriguez (£23M+)
- Christian Eriksen (£11M)
Outs:
- Scholes (RET) -
- Fletcher (RET)
- Anderson (£6-9M)
- Young (£11M)


I would be more than happy with that as a summer.

A line up of;

De Gea, Rafael, Evans, Vidic, Fabio, Strootman, Carrick, Kagawa, Rooney, Eriksen, RVP/Lewandowski looks incredible to me.

Although one thing I would like to see is the arrival if Schmelzer who IMO is the best LB in world football. "

Believable2 Unbelievable2

So you would sign Rodriguez and not play him? {Ed004's Note - If Rodriguez is signed he would start IMO. I'm not sure on Eriksen. He is a talented player but I'm not sure of his best position. He isn't the most influential up top and drifts in and out of games, however, if he was to sit back and play as the deep lying playmaker his passing is good enough but he is too weak and not strong enough defensively}

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Agree with a lot of things. But I think that Fletcher will come back and play a limted role as a DM in the Cup Games - largely to blend experience with youth in these games. Anderson I agree will leave & Scholes will retire. As for Young, he is a good squad player.

As for in comings, Strootman for me is nailed on. Many also think that we ould move for Wanyama also, but this remains to be seen! Lewandowski is 50-50 right now, although I think that we will sign him due to SAF's love of forwards. In terms of a winger, I think Zaha replaces Nani regardless. If we can't get a deal done for Rodriguez then I think we will keep Hernandez, but if Rodriguez comes in then Hernandez leaves. I don't say this because they are like for like. but because if we don't sign Rodriguez then we could do with that extra forward. Rodriguez may not be the be all and end all though, I hope we take a very close look at Lamela, he might not be the quickest but he is so similar to Mata. Could be a real aquisition for us.

So, in conclusion:

The nailed on incomers and leaves I think are Zaha, Strootman & Lewandowski. Guaranteed outgoings being Nani, Anderson & Scholes. Then potential outgoings such as Hernandez depend on who we bring in, hopefully Lamela or Rodriguez.

I'd also like to say that I hope we don't sell Fabio, he is the utility wing back that we need. Evra & Buttner for the left and Rafael & Fabio for the right will be fine and will let Smalling & Jones concentrate on the defence. We could also get rid of Lindegaard for Begovic, that is another possible deal.

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Schmelzer the best LB in world football?

What?

s20c {Ed004's Note - I reckon currently Baines is up there with the best. I can't think of many top left backs available}

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Lahm is the best left-back I think.

Sydney!

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S20c - Schmelzer is stupidly under-rated.

I this guy is the best defensive and attacking LB in the world.

ED4 - I like Baines but I'm an old fashioned guy, I want my LB and RB to defend first then attack.

Syd - Have to agree there mate, although I see him more often as a RB.

Lahm is probably the best, but Schmelzer isn't far behind imo.

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I agree Sydney. Jordi Alba is not far behind although not as good as lahm defensively but much better offensively.

Shahram

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18 Mar 2013 09:54:07
Surely Fergie cannot defend that fat overweight no good junk eating slob from Brazil any more.
Watching Anderson on Saturday was embarrassing, he is actually struggling to run now. His passing was poor, he looked absolutely knackered after 25 minutes AGAIN.
I haven't got a clue what this looser earns a week but I bet it's close to 80-90 grand.
No wonder he doesn't want to leave and want's to fight for his place, he's getting a massive amounts of money and does absolutely nothing for it.
What angers me even more is that players like Fletcher would kill just to be back on the pitch and playing again and money wouldn't matter.
I look at this clown and think what a waste of money and Man United resources, how has he got away with being fat for 6 years, why is he still here?
Get a grip Fergie and kick this guy out on his fat arse, even if it means taking a loss you will save on the dinners in the canteen at Carrington.

Simmo

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Simmo, can I ask you what the difference is between Anderson and Rooney? Both let themselves get out of shape. Yet you defend Rooney? It's a legitimate question mate.

Sydney!

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Sydney

Have a look at what Rooney has done in since he's been at Man United.
Then have a look at Andersons highlights, that should tell you everything you need to know.
I thought you were intellegent Sydney, what a stupid question!

Simmo

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Simmo, it's also difficult to offload players when they are consistently injured. He has been available for sale for a while, but you need interest to be able to sell. There will be several changes the manager wants to make, but unless he can offload certain players his hands are tied. Anderson will be getting a salary in line with Cleverley, Hernandez, Smalling, Jones etc probably around the £40k a week mark. Barring another long lay-off I think the club will get rid this summer.

Sydney!

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Syd
Surely even you can see what Rooney has contributed to the team over the years compared to anderson.
I'm not sure Anderson has looked fully fit for the last 5 years

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Ok so Rooney has contributed a lot in the past. What about the future though? Isn't that where the issue lies?

TK-Red

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Simmo, so it's one rule for one and one for another? Of course Rooney has contributed a lot, but if he isn't keeping himself at 100% then why is he any different from Anderson?

Sydney!

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18 Mar 2013 11:57:50
Correct me if I am wrong here but didn't we knock back an approach from spurs last Summer? It says a lot about the coaches that he's constantly out of shape.

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Why is Rooney even being brought into this, my original post is about Anderson.

Simmo

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Tk
To be honest no
I think that is a different issue

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Simmo
The same people bring Rooney into everything it's getting obsessive

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Rooney and Anderson's situations are vastly different.

Rooney has struggled to keep 100% fit this year. He is not actually unfit (aside from the start of the season), he just needs to take a look at his lifestyle.

Anderson has not been fit in years, to the point that I can't remember the last time he didn't run out of steam before the 90 minutes were up. A few months ago when Anderson hit a purple patch people were back talking about him as if he was the solution to our midfield problems. He isn't and never will be because he cannot do the bare minimum required of any professional athlete; maintain a level of fitness that allows you to do your bloody job.

The only reason I can see that we haven't sold Anderson is that nobody is willing to pay anything close to what we would like. But at some point we will have to cut our losses because the lad is a disgrace to professional sport. However, talented he, or anyone else, thinks he is, if a player is unable to last a full match season after season then they simply aren't worthy of a squad number let alone a starting birth. We have plenty of young lads who work their backsides off week after week, and I would much rather see them given a chance than a lazy bo***cks with a massive chip on his shoulder (and yes the chip is probably left over from a KFC family bucket)

Danny Pughnited

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Simmo, I agree regarding Anderson. I think it's totally unprofessional for an athlete to turn up to work out of shape. But my point was Rooney does the same thing and he gets a free pass by some. Considering Rooney is on five times the salary of Anderson and is a far more important player to the team, he shouldn't be an exception to the rule.

No name, I think the problem is the coaches do not go home with the player so when a player leaves Carrington it is the player's job to look after his own body. Eating junk food, smoking, drinking beer etc should be done in moderation, smoking really shouldn't be happening at all if you are a Manchester United player in the 21st century. It's down to the player, not the coaching.

Sydney!

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I don't think it is jred. Simmo was saying we should sell Anderson as he is getting worse and is out of shape. I think it's a fairly relevant question to ask whether the same could be said of Rooney as Simmo has defended Rooney in the past. It's not me being argumentative, I'm just curious what the difference is.

TK-Red

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Tk
I don't think can compare Rooney and Anderson to be honest.

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Sydney

You are missing the question. I never mentioned Rooney, my question was about Anderson.
Rooney hasn't got away with coming back out of shape, he was dropped by Fergie for one of the biggest games in his footballing career only last week, we were told tactics but a fit and scoring Rooney would of got a starting berth against Real Madrid. Why are you saying he gets away with it when he clearly doesn't?
He gets slaughtered by the press everytime he puts a bit of timber on, they then report that his time at United is up etc. Rooney can't away with pissing in the wrong direction. Anderson however has quietly gone about his business doing sod all for 6 years and taking a large chunks of money from Man United.
You go on about Rooney earning 4 times more than Anderson, do you not think he's earned the right? Has Anderson earned the right to sponge 50 grand a week of Man United not he hasn't really has he.
This is becoming a stupid conversation now, please stick to the initial question about ANDERSON.

Simmo

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Simmo what do you expect people to say about Ando? There's not much of a discussion to be had as everyone seems to be in agreement.

TK-Red

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Simmo, I have already answered your original question on Anderson.

I meant Rooney gets away with it on this site by one or two of his fans.

According to one or two Rooney never gets dropped for fitness issues.

At least you aren't one of the Rooney apologists who thinks he can do no wrong.

Sydney!

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TK-Red

I don't expect anybody to say anything, it was an observation that's all.

Simmo

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18 Mar 2013 09:49:38
good morning campers, just in, is the news that utds fa cup replay against chelsea will be played on april fools day, what a very apt day-out for both sets of fans lol.
ps, do you not think that rvp is on the slide, maybe you have seen the best of him, what age is he -31 or something, o well not to worry, I mean he's still a better player than the passenger that is wayne rooney.

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Wow that's mean he is 29. But didn't we win our game an gather more points incase you haven't noticed we are 15 point clear of the nearest rival a laughable amount of points clear of Liverpool an you lads got hammered 3-1. You are fighting for 6th place that's not exaggerating an will lose your best players in the summer while we will build. Plus RVP doesn't have to score another goal all season if he wants he has done enough but I still think there's a lot more. Struggle for sixth or cruise on top. You know what the answer is

CAIN

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He's actually 29, I would look at the facts before posting silly things.
Your prize possesion will be off at the end of the year as well.
Your not even the top side in Liverpool now, you trail Everton by three points and they have a game in hand, it's laughable that you can even come on here and comment.
Where do you go from here, no Suarez and Stevie G will be drawing his pension next season.
Ha ha ha. long live the kop!

Simmo

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Is this the same person who claimed we are one man team when Van Persie was scoring for fun. Now he doesn't score for few games and we have seen the best of him
Wait for few days, this guy might come up with something interesting when Van Persie kicks in again.
I guess Suarez was scoring for fun before this season or only this season.

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18 Mar 2013 11:57:02
nice to see your a fan of micheal, fan -of-carrick, you know he's a very underated player, he sort of reminds me of xabi alonso, only thing is he's like alonso in slow-motion replays lol, he's as slow as a snail.

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What the hell is this banter? I'm sorry lfc but xabi alonso has gone mate, he's just a memory to liverpool fc now. What is it with liverpool fans constantly trying to relive the golden days. I would love to see your house bet its like going back to the 1980's, betamax constantly on with liverpools 'greatest moments'. You probably have a picture of Steven Gerrard holding the old 1982-83 first division trophy with king kenny lifting him up on his shoulders, cause that is the only time Stevie will hold a league title!

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18 Mar 2013 13:01:56
yeah carricks slow good one but still got more winners medals than gerrard

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18 Mar 2013 13:05:06
now aaallj5, when steve lifts the prem title in the next couple of seasons, I hope you will come on here and apologise. also lpool are like betamax, while utd are like vhs, we all know vhs is more popular, but betamax is better
quality.

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Ha ha ha good one lfc. Compare Carrick to an ex Liverpool player because youve got nothing playin in Carricks league at the moment. How the mighty have fallen. Jokes like youve just posted show clearly you know Liverpool are a mid table team anymore. Ye competed once for the prem, lost and went into meltdown. I LOVE IT!

GALWAY RED

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Now that's banter aaallj ha ha :-)

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18 Mar 2013 13:29:21
GALWAY RED, its good to see your english is improving immensely, now if only carrick could speed up his game a little, well a lot lol, everything would be hunky dory, would it not.

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Lfc I will gladly come on here and apologise, i'll even buy you a drink to celebrate, but that will never happen my friend.
The only way Liverpool FC will win the premiership is if every other team in the league was called Liverpool FC. Or if an elite european league is made for the best teams in Europe and Man United, Chelsea and the rest leave the league, then you'll only have to beat of Everton and Southampton?
There is one thing we agree with VHS quality isn't the best, but you can by up-to-date dvd's with Manchester United winning the league!

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"everything would be hunky dory"

What, you mean like being 15 points clear at the top of the league LOL? No! you're right - if Carrick were any good we'd be 20+ points clear!

On Alonso - I wonder if he misses playing for Liverpool whilst he's gone onto to achieve great things at a top club like Real? I'm guessing a resounding no! He's forgotton about you but you can't forget about him, bless! Perhaps you haven't quite managed to replace him yet with Allen or Henderson or Charlie Adam?

How the mighty fave fallen, yet keep falling further :)

HBadger

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I love the way the grammatical genius who uses p. s. in the wrong context constantly has the audacity to slag off someone elses english.

GALWAY RED

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Im afraid the only thing stevie g will be lifting is pancakes baby
Blackpool Red

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18 Mar 2013 09:44:11
I realize everyone is jumping on the strootman bandwagon as our savior given the poor state of our midfield. I am curious to knwo, how many people have actually watched him and I mean watched him a number of games and their opinion of him?

I have seen him quite a bit and if you guys are wondering how and why I watch all these different leagues that is because I have bets all over the place on many leagues and games. Yesterday was a great day and had a 10 accumulator out of 11 games with 11 lines come in BTW on a pretty sizable bet.

Here is my personal view of this guy. I can't make him for a defensive midfielder at all as he plays higher up the pitch, he is not a creative midfielder either because he is no pirlo or scholes, who are quite smart in terms of making themselves always available for the pass and being the centre of distribution.

The only thing I make him out is a better version of cleverly, technically ok but nothing special and pace wise ok but again nothing special.

I am not sure Strootman is enough purchase come this summer to fix our midfield and still believe we also need a creative midfielder.


Shahram

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18 Mar 2013 10:42:08
When you say creative midfielder you really need to clarify that. I believe you mean a deep lying playmaker a la Pirlo who you mention by name. Others may get confused and think you mean an advanced playmaker, in the hole role, number 10. I actually agree with you and think we need a minimum of two central midfielders signed. Strootman on his own wouldn't be enough. I could see Strootman playing alongside Carrick taking over from Cleverley in the big games with Cleverley as understudy and rotation option. And strootman eventually succeeding Carrick in that role. I'd like to see someone else signed though. My shortlist would involve Modric, Cabaye, Bender, Wanyama. All different types but it depends on what the manager thinks we need. We think that scholes will retire, fletcher as well and anderson deserves to be sold so we definitely need two in. Be interesting to see what happens with petrucci and powell too. MrE

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He is a tough tackling box-to-box midfielder. I do not believe he is everyone's first choice, but the reason he is mentioned a lot on here is because he is the most likely midfielder to be signed at this time. United are heavily linked to him.

Sydney!

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When ever I've seen him he's played further up the park but if we sign him I think we will do a bit of a Carrick and play him deeper.
Wouldn't be my first choice if I'm honest but Sydney is right the reason he is mentioned so much is because we have been linked to him {Ed004's Note - Out of curiosity who would others like to see signed if Strootman isn't...}

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Don't talk about bandwagons mate, you'll never hear the end of it ;)

I've watched a fair bit of Strootman and I understand what you mean in terms of him not appearing to be very specialist but I wouldn't say Yaya Toure is either. I don't think we need a defensive midfielder as such, we need a physical, driving presence in midfield and I think Strootman is just that.

TK-Red

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Modric or bender, if it was a wish list Martinez or Vidal,
I think khedira could do the role well.
I would pick wanyama over strootman to be honest, I think strootman is the better player at the moment but wanyama has impressed me this year I think would be more suited to the role.
Wanyama May be a bit of a risk but I think it worth a chance.
I also think thiago in that role could be interesting

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Ed004, I like Lars Bender, but Strootman will be a top player in a year or two and getting him now would be a wise move.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - Is lars bender good enough on the ball I know he is very physical and is a force in midfield but how good is he on the ball}

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Tk
I think we need a cm that breaks up play and keeps possession basically feeds the front 4
Personally I would love a box to box midfielder but I think most the top teams have moved away from that

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Jred I think that's a job that Strootman can do. He enjoys a tackle but he is quite similar to Carrick in that he intercepts a lot of passes. Teams have moved away from the box to box midfielder but that's not to say they don't have a place in the game.

TK-Red

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Agree with TK and Jred, Strootman can do what Carrick can do with intercepting, plus he has an aggressive streak and can tackle. He can sit in midfield i'm sure, but he also does the box to box thing well. People like Wilshere because he grabs the game by the scruff of the neck and drives forward. Well Strootman drives forward too so IMO would be a good signing.

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - I reckon my ideal midfield from next season would be Wanyama, as he is brilliant defensively and offers a very physical presence as well as being very good on the ball and he also offers a presence for set pieces, and then along side him Modric or Cabaye. I have rated both very highly or awhile now I reckon Modric is better and we could get him for relatively cheap as he hasn't been playing to the best of his ability. Strootman would be an alternative to either of them}

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Tk
I'm not saying strootman isn't a good player, just not my first choice

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No he doesn't seem to be a few people's first choice to be fair Jred. Who would be your first choice, in that case?

TK-Red

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Tk
I've all ready posted my first choice above pal

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Thank guys, all interesting feedback. The more I see him the less I am convinced and this is in the dutch league, which is much easier than the PL.

I am more and more inclined to think/hope we would be better off buying a Dembele and Cabaye.

I was watching Juve the other day and love the way their midfield harasses the opposition in numbers and very physical. Having said that they are not just brutes but also very good technically and can ll play a decent pass, which is what I think we are missing.


Does anyone remember when was the last time we bought a midfielder from outside the pl that has worked out well for us?

If my memory serves me right we have had one after another that have turned out to be waste of money.


Shahram

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It depends how harsh you want to be Shahram. Vidic and Evra certainly worked out well and I might even go as far as to say that Nani, DDG, Rafael and Hargreaves were good signings in terms of how they adapted to the league, obviously Hargreaves was a disaster in terms of injuries etc.

TK-Red

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Tk

The question was midfielders signed from outside the pl. I recognize we have had much better luck with defenders and strikers from outside the pl.

Shahram

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18 Mar 2013 08:45:40
I think last year we all jumped the gun saying the league was done and dusted, with only 8 points being the gap. However, I think it's fair enough to say it's all over this year, we're not going to lose 5 games in our last 9, it's just not possible.

Also, well done to Rooney, he has really stepped up to the plate when we needed him the most (being the time when RVP isn't having his best games). Without him stepping up and grabbing some much needed goals, who knows where this title race would stand.

Now, onto the summer. I believe that it has got to the point of requiring a midfielder, where that Fergie is almost afraid of taking a chance on a CM. The last few seasons, it has been so blatant that a midfielder has been needed, that when we finally do sign one, if he were to fail, it could see a backlash of moans to Fergie about buying one sooner. That, is why, I believe that we will sign 2 midfielders this summer, so that there is a higher chance of one succeeding should the other not.

You may say that it sounds stupid, but if you actually think about it, it does make sense. (At least to me anyhow haha).

I think Danny Welbeck needs to go. Well done kid, you made it through the system of the Greatest Club in the World from the age of 9, but i'm sorry the lad is just not good enough. Move on, get first team minutes, and maybe you could show us that we missed a trick. but, right now at this moment, we don't need to be waiting on a striker to "potentially" turn out good, we need the finished article, or very close to it.

I believe that Robert Lewandowski will come in, should a striker be sought for. If he isn't available/achievable, no other striker will be looked towards, as we all know it's either the one he wants, or none.

It wouldn't surprise me to see a young CB, possibly Zouma or Garay, come in. We all know jt is coming to the time when both Rio and Vidic will be looking towards hanging their boots up, and we need to prepare for that occasion. I think an experienced CB will be looked for next summer, who though is the big question, as I for one have no idea. I would love to see Hummels, but don't know whether he is achievable or not, and whether or not Dortmund would wish to sell another player to us.

Apart from that, I see a youngster or two being brought in, such as we have Zaha already coming in. Alas, I would like to hear your reflections on this post, and what your thoughts are for this summer window ahead.

Believable4 Unbelievable9

So much for our 1 man team hey.
Chris the REDman

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18 Mar 2013 11:01:03
Well first off Garay isn't young, he's mid twenties. I also doubt if he'd settle in England only being used to Latin styles. Zouma is young but is too young, he'd be behind Evans, Smalling and maybe Jones so not sure what the point would be of signing Zouma when we might as well just trust Michael Keane. I also massively disagree on Welbeck. He's skilled, technical, works hard. Yes he could score more but most of the season he's been played out of position. We've seen how that's affected Rooney in the past. I'd like to see how many Hernandez would score if three quarters of his starts were on the wing. There's more to his game than scoring as the Madrid games proved. I don't get the rush to kick out homegrown players in favour of the latest fancy foreign name. Its done Arsenal, Chelsea and City no favours at all. And I don't rate Lewandowski as highly as some on here. He'd expect to start most games which he isn't going to manage with Rooney and Robin in front of him. At least Welbeck and Hernandez don't publicly moan. I get the feeling Lewandowski would. And I didn't like his comments about moving every couple of years. I think we need ve prioritise midfield, the wings and leftback and leave the striking department alone especially given what we have developing. Fergie is so striker fixated though we'll end up signing Lewandowski and it'll cause problems. MrE

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18 Mar 2013 07:49:53
Hi Guys,

Well 15pts clears is a nice cushion with 9 to play, but let's not get to ahead of ourselves. Sunderland away next, I hope that isn't this seasons Wigan. Its no coincidence that the 2 reasons we are so far ahead at this point it Van Persie and Vidic. Although RVP goals seemed to have dried up, the lack of goals being conceded is all down to that colossus at the back.

Sunderland will depend on many factors, most obviously the Easter Monday replay with Chelsea. I think he will go with fringe for Sunderland now the dynamic of the season has changed so dramatically this weekend. The league is the priority obviously but the breathing space is such that we can afford to drop points up there and not be to badly affected by it. We don't want to drop points obviously but a draw even if they beat Newcastle would mean us going in to the derby 13pts clear.

The state of the players after this international break will have a bearing on matters. I think Hernandez has to travel to south america so that will rule him out of Sunderland, plus he likes to play him against Chelsea. The same will probably apply to Kagawa. I suspect that the front 3 against Sunderland will be Rooney Welbeck and Nani (if fit). Giggs will start and probably Valencia and Cleverley. The back four is anybody's guess but I would imagine Evans and Smalling will feature. The big hitters will be on the bench to see how things are going.

So I expect as full strength as possible for Chelsea. So anyway all looking up again after the Madrid disappointment

Speak soon

Mike the Moston Red

Believable1 Unbelievable1

18 Mar 2013 04:17:14
Hey all,
Just said I'd post about the positions and players that are mainly being scouted. we have GK, LB, CB, CM and versatile attackers/strikers.
As regards GK begovic seems to be the most obvious 1 but I think will happen only if lindegaard is sold which is 50/50
Left Back - shaw/sandro/baines come to mind as targets in that position and everybody can see that evra needs competition and rest but I don't see buttner helping with that. unfortunatly I don't see united going for a left back this summer either though.

Centre Backs - zouma/garay/mangala/de vrij seem to be the main ones linked and I do think united will sign a cb this summer.

Centre midfield - this is the main area we all know badly needs strengthening. I personally think we need 2 cm's but don't see it happening. scholes/Ando/fletcher I think will all be gone. as for targets the obvious ones are strootman/Wanyama/bender amongst others but in my own opinion I think strootman will happen.

Versatile attackers/strikers - as regards who will go its a very tough call but it could be Hernandez. nani's time is definetly up I would think. asfor coming in there's the links with Rodriguez/bale/ronaldo/lewandowski etc. now I honestly think that united could break their transfer record this summer for a special talent or marquee player whichever phrase ye prefer. I don't see bale or ronaldo ever happening though. I think Rodriguez will come in for nani and lewandowski only IF Hernandez wants to go.
Sorry for the long post guys I've tried to break it up a bit. what's your thoughts eds/anyone?
Dave

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18 Mar 2013 09:55:37
I know it sounds silly but don't pay any attention to what kind of players we are scouting. You've just said we are scouting goalkeepers, defenders, midfielders and forwards, well what positions aren't we scouting then? We scout all players for all positions all of the time, it doesn't mean we are going to sign any of them. that's just football nowadays, you need to be ready to sign players and you need to know as much as possible about them so we have years worth of scouting to fall back on. I would expect us to sign 3 more players after Zaha at most. We never sign loads of players, we are and evolution not revolution team.

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17 Mar 2013 23:57:38
Alright United fans, Everton fan here just to ask a question. I don't reguarly watch the United games so I can't say I've seen much of him in the Prem but what do you guys think of Shinji Kagawa? I thought he was excellent for Dortmund and I wanted Everton to sign him last Summer. Do you think he is Manchester United standard? The reason I ask is that I think he's a very good player and I want to see him succeed in the Prem.

BitterBlue {Ed004's Note - I think he is a fantastic player but he hasn't yet adapted to the premiership or the united style of play. This wasn't helped with the injury that set him back a couple of months. Personally I think he will be a key player for united next season as does Ferguson according to his interviews on the player}

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Ed, we should adapt the the kagawa style, our current style is boring. {Ed004's Note - I am hoping we are trying to adapt to it}

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