Manchester United Banter Archive November 18 2012

18 Nov 2012 20:50:58
Kenny Morgans RIP

18 Nov 2012 20:04:25
just off top, chelsea were flying, then beaten by us, now cant win a game. if we beat neighbours we will shatter there confidence, just see. norwich was poor no doubt about it. but we will make up for it. league is our only chance this season as cl out of the question. sir Alex is my idol, top man, a mans man. but i am not blind either, a football tactician he is not, shows in european results over the years. a driven man is what he is, and drives everybody else as well. he sorted this club out in the 80s, took him a few years but did it. 12 glorious titles, ahead of liverpool, yeha. last time in this position with sir Mat we blew it. now the only difference between us and liverpool is bob paisley. he took over from shanks and drove them on, foundation was laid. imagine if sir Alex took over straigh away from sir Mat, wow wow wow. we would have 10 european cups, especially as english teams cleaned up in that era. sir Alex has a few years left in him yet, i hope anyway but his biggest signing ever will be new manager of UNITED.
as for this team, well cm is poor, very poor. cleverly not up to it, but who do we sign. player i was gutted we didnt try harder for was modric. he was ideal for us. dan

18 Nov 2012 19:45:56
Everyones commenting on Giggs,Scholes,Carrick and SAF after the loss to Norwich and my question is really off topic and might sound a bit stupid to some of you but im curious and I want to ask:Our opponent in the round of 16 in cl will be decided by drawing?Or our group (H) is going to be met with another specific group,for example G,first position with second?

Drawn, we will get a team that finishes 2nd in the group but cannot meet another English team until the last 8.

GDS

18 Nov 2012 18:16:28
So it would appear that we are very much in the hunt for Zaha. He isn't someone that tantalises the footballing tastebuds to be honest, can't see him being world class like Ronaldo. Loved the glint in the bosses eye when talking about Ronaldo, would love to see him back but its not going to happen soon. Ed, would you say Zaha is more of a winger or more of a striker? I think he's more likely a winger.

We seem to be being linked with the right central midfielders - Bender, Wanyama, Strootman etc. Whether we actually move for them or not is another matter.

I suppose Zaha and Wanyama coming in January wouldn't be bad, but I'd like someone a little better than Zaha (Ronaldo? ;)

Fresh! {Ed004's Note - I don't know. I don't rate him that highly as he has no end product. Why are being linked with him all of a sudden?}

He is f***ing guff!

No idea when we should be looking at buying quality at a massively higher level ie Rodriguez or Muniain that we should be wasting, yes wasting close to 20m on him.

Jesus Christ if a deal that DOESNT represent value for money Zaha for anything over 6 million is definitely it!

Is he English by any chance? Haha

Jono

I would be shocked if we pay that kind of money and more like 6 to 8 mill if its true.

For 20 we can get Rodiguez if we throw Nani in there as part exchange. However I really hope we just drop this idea of buying one winger after another and just spend the money on a centre midfielder.

Shahram

18 Nov 2012 17:55:40
You have to laugh. After the Tottenham game, you were all calling for Fergie's head on a plate. Then we won all but one match up to yesterday, and you all want him out again? You'd think we were Chelsea fans...

Now don't get me wrong, the team selection was wrong, but how many managers would still be competitive with this squad?

All this crap lately about selling Rooney, sacking Fergie. You don't know what you want! You all change your mind every day. In my opinion, in 2005/06, we were in a lot worse position than this.

G.A.G.U.S

GAGUS

There is a huge difference. In 2005 /6 we had a young emerging talent that was truly world class in Ronaldo. Read what Gary Neville said about him, plus Rooney was coming into his own. Tevez a real quality player was added to a team of potential. There is no such talent as Ronaldo in our team right now. Also in 2006 key players like Scholes, Giggs and Rio were nowhere near the level they have declined to now. Add to that the manager was six years younger which should not be underestimated.

I don't see the same reasons to be optimistic and the manager is close to retirement now.

Red Man

Red Man

At the start of the 05/06 season, our team was:
__________VDS
Neville___Rio___Brown__Heinze
Ronaldo__Scholes__Keane__Giggs
________RVN__Rooney

Keane left after 3 months, Scholes had a career threatening eye condition. There was a lot of specualtion about Ronaldo's future after the Rooney incident. Alan Smith suffered a badly broken leg. RVN left after that season. So we lost Keane, Van Nistelrooy, Smith, and had doubts over Scholes and Ronaldo's future. We signed Michael Carrick and no one else. We ended up holding onto Ronaldo, and Vidic and Evra thankfully came into their own. Saha, Scholes and Solskjaer got over their injuries and were brilliant for us. As far as I can see, we had big problems that season and the following summer. It all came good, but it could've gone either way. It was in summer 2007 when we added Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves and Tevez, and then we became a top team.

G.A.G.U.S

Oh yeah?! and do you see that happening now GAGUS? We have no midfield at all, so while it has been great that we have managed to keep up in the League, I think the lack of midfield talent and bad tactics will catch up with us.
I have been saying for some time that once the legend that saf decides to retire then the club needs to change direction and start playing more modern football or risk being left behind.
Nothing has changed my view. I only want us to be the best.
NoMidfield

Gagus, we are not the same anymore, SAF needs to go, mourinho or moyes for me, and investment in defence and midfield,
So gagus stop criticising others, you low life. Max the red

G.A.G.U.S.

I think the main thing was although you said we only signed Carrick that season the return of a 30 year old scholes, good aged squad player in smith and emergance fully to the fore of Ronny and Rooney was reasons to be optimistic.

Now we are hailing the return from retirement of a 37 year old scholes with other starters a 30+ carrick and a 38 year old Giggs. On top of that our young attacking world class talents shot off to Spain, the other top class striker fell out with Saf and moved, our 2 long term replacements for Giggs and Scholes have failed to deliver after 6 years and the only top class CMer Hargo was very unlucky with injury and would have made a massive difference in the years he was out.

Since then we have signed no CMer to either replace hargo or to mould into replacing scholes and carrick.

Could you imagine SAF having the ruthlessness now to chop Carrick for a youngster like he once did with Ince?

I can't!

Jono

Also

I know SAF has done wonders over the last few years with this squad but it's only in this state due to him! Either he didn't think certain players were good enough or unwilling to pay what was needed. If it was the first then god help us and if it's the second then roll on the new manager as I'm certain our first signing or 2 will be a top CMer as the next guy won't be so short sighted.

Since SAF has turned us successful I can honestly say we have never looked so weak in CM and although other combos didn't work ie Veron the area of the park was still littered with top talent. Now with the state of the CM we are struggling v the Norwiches, the blackpools, the southamptons never mind when we play a top team.

I'm not calling fod his head now but had we won the league last year I had hoped he would go and we are further behind now I can't see us challenging to the last day in any comp. so will he leave on another trophy less season?

Probably not, so Giggs, Scholes and Rio, sign up those deals buddies.

Jono

Saf to go Scholes to giggs to go !!What a fickle lot you are.

18 Nov 2012 17:49:24
United Ready to pay for W.zaha transfer wages

18 Nov 2012 16:41:14
Who's for a friendly wager Giggs and Scholes to sign for another year

Stand on me it's going to happen

Pardoe

Nice one, get everyone steamed up. lol

Shahram

The worrying thing is pardoe is probably correct :-(
Onecut

With our midfield policy we might aswel sign Powell on a 20yr contract now. He can re negotiate when he's 38 like the Scholesy.

TJ

18 Nov 2012 16:12:50
I have been shot down on this site for having the cheek to say that SAF has lost whatever it was he had to give youth a chance and stop with this farcical idea that Scholes and Giggs are somehow still up to the standard that a club like Manchester United expects.

For me Scholes and Giggs should have taken the burden away from him and retired gracefully instead of this self indulgent attempt to try and still be premier league footballers and the wages that provides. Its embarrassing and pathetic they have won everything in the game and should have been remembered as legends but with every disappointing display that they produce like yesterday pushes that further and further to the back of peoples minds and memories and ruins the super hero status that they both held.

Fergie grow a pair and do the right thing (give youth a chance)

Devil Dust.

Great shout surely petrucci and powell would provide more to the team than giggs pogba slag him off for leaving but you can see why he did!
carrick scholes giggs young nani fgor whatever for various reasons arent up to standard anymore
cleverley andersson kagawa petrucci powell zaha lamela wanyama all good ages talented and are up to the physical high demand hectic premier league football

Devil dust i agree with everything u said.i dont understand wat SAF is afraid of. he needs to start doing the right thing by the team. i have a feeling he wants giggs to score a league goal so he can continue the record of being the only player to score a goal in all the PL seasons.

I agree with what your saying. But your missing the point fergie doesnt see a problem with giggs, scholes, carrick or rio. Even if he did he doesnt feel theres anyone better and feels against lower teams they have the legs to cope which they dont. Also fergie feels hes probably got a coupla years left and doesnt want to go out like wenger may. Unfortunatly if he doesnt realise these few just arent what they were there will be more scalps. I dont think one person felt it was going to be comfortable with giggs and carrick. It seems we have untouchables which are rio evra giggs scholes carrick all can be replaced within the squad but i dontexpect fergie to stop being stubborn any time soon.
Red dev

18 Nov 2012 14:32:48
personally would love to have james rodriguez in january..
i am soooooo frustrated watching nani and young playing and not even passing forward.....young for instance whenever gets the ball looks for back pass or sideways(hell evra does more attacking runs than him ).
any player who can dribble pass players is needed in our team in centre(much like a dembele or yaya toure )...all the defensive trouble will get over when vidic returns(i mean hope so).

huzzi..

18 Nov 2012 13:52:07
Lindegaard needs sold, Smalling not good enough, scholes plus giggs need to retire and hernandez is a sub not a starter! pretty much if this happens wel be a better team {Ed004's Note - Smalling is definitely good enough. What makes you think other wise? He is arguably are the best available defender atm and it won't be long till he is better than Vidic}

Agree with ed, thought smalling had a good game again yesterday, fantastic even after being rushed back, and covered for a few rio mistakes.

GDS {Ed004's Note - He is surprisingly good in the air and his defending for Holts chance 6 yards out was brilliant. He did very well not to divert it into his own net}

No doubt Evans will be returned to the side when fit, now he definitely is not good enough!

Dave

Again, agree fully, I was impressed with how he had the awareness to move out of the way of that. I have lost count in the last 2 weeks how many headers he has won. Every time we do something good at the back it seems to be smalling, he has such a great footballing brain.

GDS

Evans has also been pretty good Dave, he is maybe not first choice but is a great stop gap and always gives 100% unlike some.

GDS

Who was it that lost the goalscorer? Remind me.

So he does 50 things right and loses his man once, which I didn't really think was his fault and he isn't good enough? Silly.

GDS

18 Nov 2012 13:20:52
De gea
Rafa smalling vidic evra

Anderson fletcher cleverly

Kagawa

Rooney Van Persie


Surley this has to be our starting eleven when all fit until we hopefully invest in our midfield and a new left back.
Nathan

Prefer Carrick to Fletcher and Rooney in the hole and Little pea upfront with RVP.

Shahram

18 Nov 2012 12:23:44
After the match Fergie said that United had enough class players on the pitch to win the match and you persons come on here criticizing the greatest manager of all times and asking how many of our players would get into the top teams. You are all gloryhunting arises

Carrick is the best CM in the world. His passing is amazing. Teams like Barca will kill to have a player like him. Better than these overrated Xavi and Iniesta.

Scholes and Giggs absolute legends. Can give us 3-4 more years. Any team will be privileged to have them.

Valencia best winger in the world, better than Ronaldo IMO. His perfect crosses create havoc in the best of defences.

Young 2nd best behind Valencia. Closest thing we have to Messi.
Both Young and Valencia have great left foots as well but they are prohibited by the UEFA to use them as it would make the matches totally 1 sided. If you think its a joke then I can prove it. Remember the friendly midweek it doesn't count in competitions so Young was allowed to cross the ball with his left.

You guys say why not give the game to younger guys. Well SAF knows they are worthless and will be sold soon to championship clubs.

Cleverly doesn't know how to pass, Anderson might need to be substituted after half an hour cause he can't carry his fat arse for more than that and for Fletcher well he is ill.

We lost bcoz FA told us to make the league a little more competetive.

Peter

Liverpool fan.

-JakeW

I can't tell if this is meant to be serious? Parts of it are clearly tongue in cheek (I hope) but other parts I can't tell?

GDS

Fair enough - one of the more original trolls :)

StevieK

Best post ever

18 Nov 2012 11:38:53
Everyone was happy until yesterday, 1 defeat and half of you are calling for the bosses head.
I cant beleive the stuff im reading here its pathetic.
im off to the liverpool page to watch them speculate about cavani to cheer myself up

brendan

I was happy with our results up until yesterday but not with our performances tbh. That was the 12th time we have gone behind already this season which just would not happen if we had a midfield capable of controlling the game. Surely you can't be satisfied with that? Our lack of quality in CM along with the manager's insistace on starting a 39 yr old winger in there is what is hard to take. We can play any team mid week as we've already qualified for the CL so we should have played our very best team yesterday. A midfield 2 of Giggs and Carrick is just embarassing when we are trying to win the league

That said I would never personally call for the manager's head but fans have good reason to be pi$$ed off this weekend IMO following that team selection and performance (or lack of)

Gav

It's not just "One loss" is it? For the last 3+ Years it's been the same old, no proper midfield and no one is addressing to it! We will get destroyed by City if we continue to let Carrick, Giggs and Scholes play, and don't forget Ferdinand and Evra too.

-JakeW

I agree with Gav. As I've as said before (and been given stick for), I generally haven't enjoyed watching us apart from the odd short period and the Arsenal game. I do care if we win or lose but I also miss the energy and pace we have always had. I was bored senseless during the 1st half yesterday...

AJH

Well said Jake, too many people on here with rose tinted glasses. ferguson has struggled for the last 3 years. what he has done for the club will never be matched and we will be forever greatful but everything has to come to an end, for Ferguson this should be his last season along with Giggsy, Scholesy & Ferdinand.

Dave

18 Nov 2012 11:13:23
Despite being a very good player, and someone who I like and think is good for the team, Antonio Valencia really needs to add more to his game. Far too often he gets the ball, slows it down, shifts it and drills it across the box or chips it to the far post. Although this can work, it gets predictable a lot of the time. His left foot is non existent, and i'm pretty sure he has no clue of how to whip a ball in rather than just drill it. If he really wants to keep his place, he needs to improve those aspects.

On a side note, our play(especially against Norwich) is too flat. It can simply be summed up by the following:

1. Carrick plays ball to strikers feet, facing away from goal.

2. Striker gives it to Valencia.

3. Valencia crosses it. (sometimes well and other times badly)

We need to change this aproach.

MelonRed

18 Nov 2012 10:45:30
What's i going to take for AF to realise that Giggs is no longer of any use to us. He's a legend, but playing him is like playing with 10 men against 11. How many games like the one yesterday is it going to take to realise that Young and Valencia are not working? This goes for AF and fans, just like AF, Valencia is not infallible.

Percy

I love the guy for what he had done for the club (SAF) but am absolutely flabbergasted that he still fails to see what everyone else has seen since the season before last! Anderson would have been the ideal partner for Carrick yesterday IMO and that's not hindsight, just common sense

Gav

18 Nov 2012 10:13:19
We keep speculating who we'll buy. Problem is we could have iniesta Xavi and busquets and Ferguson will still play carrick and Giggs and Scholesy ahead of them. There lies our problem.
NoMidfield

Its not just the centre of midfield thats the problem.its the predictable wing play we have when we play young and valencia,young is reluctant to go outside and use his left foot always turning inside,therefore easy to defend the same sort of problem on the right as valencia lacks dribbling skills cannot use his left foot either so cant beat his man then tends to blast the ball across the box.manchester united where renowned for exciting wing play and we dont have that anymore coupled with the fact our centre mids are too slow with or without the ball makes defending against us a lot easier.i know im gonna get well where second in the league and have scored a few goals but think the strikers have masked the fact the midfield is dire,we as fans have been spoilt the last 20 odd years as weve had exceptional players and at the moment weve got to face that its not so good and back the players weve got.in fergie i trust.

nellym

Good post nellym, we are too predictable and pedestrian and as you say, it's not just centre mid. Add in the old legs in defence and its a testament to the forwards that we are still up there. I can't for the life of me understand whybCleverley and Anderson are not getting more game time though.

AJH

18 Nov 2012 10:00:04
The morning after the night before.

There will be some who say we were top before the game so it was a blip, these are probably the same as those who hide behind only losing the league on goal difference and in doing so fail to see the obvious. It was obviously the wrong choice in midfield but Fergusons transfer dealings have also left a lot to be desired. I have watched him carefully and doubt Ashley Young is good enough to be any more than a reserve. Still it was the spine of the team that failed us. Was De Gea's dental treatment really needed at that moment, it left us with an ordinary keeper although he couldn't have done much with the goal his kicking is ordinary.
Has Ferguson really planned his defensive strategy well? An ageing left back and a young one bought who he doesn't seem to trust. However the middle of defence has been a mish mash and relied upon 34 year old Rio too far past his best. Still it is the midfield and especially centrally where we are the most ordinary in Fergusons time at the club. There is no embodiment of the manager on the pitch. We have needed a Keane since he left and the manager has dithered around with Anderson, Fletcher, Cleverley and co who sat on the bench. At the same time he has dithered over Scholes and Giggs, seemingly unable to let go of their golden era at the club.
In summer he bought Kagawa but where did he see him fitting in because he isn't the central midfield player we have needed for years. I wonder if the money would have been better spent on a more dynamic midfield player but again Ferguson has dithered, there is no way the manager can claim there are no players who could improve on Giggs and Carrick which was a dereliction of duty, Fergusons statue will have more pace and movement.
I wonder what is going on behind the scenes, what Fergusons plan is because centre of defence and midfield is muddled with little clear thinking on what is best. He even dithered on the goalkeeper when it was obvious but is this a sign of the managers mind set, dithering when there used to be clarity.

Gill needs to have a look at what is going on because there are worrying signs. Ferguson has spoken about Ronaldo who would improve us but that is a deflection tactic like when he used to talk about referees. A question needs to be asked on Fergusons plans and quickly.

Red Man

On kagawa I'm not sure we would of bought him if fergy had known he was going to get RVP
Jred

18 Nov 2012 09:58:54
The sooner giggs and scholes retire the better as they are both far past it now and everyone but the manager can see this and we will lose more games when they play in our midfield. While no one can doubt there service and there pure class when they were younger but it is getting embarrising watching them get over ran by average players. The manager needs to take a step back and understand they no longer have the legs for premiership football and both should be given another role in our staff. I will not be watching any more games when these two start as it is embarrassing and painfull to watch. I know there are other players in the team who are also average but we are talking about manchester uniteds midfield where we have had some of the best players ever, now no other team in the top 6 would take our midfield maybe even the top 10!

18 Nov 2012 09:45:53
In this recent run of winning games... Cleverley,Carrick and Anderson were our main midfield choices. So why Sir Alex do you think it's a good idea leaving two of them on the bench and starting Giggs is beyond the pale. Everyone saw it last night, a lack of pace and urgency and it was so easy for Norwich to defend against as our midfield lacked any presence.

Hopefully everyone is now understanding how average our wingers at last. I mean Valencia, have you forgotten how to take a man on. And Ashley Young is doing what Downing has done at Liverpool, was a good solid player at Villa but has seemed to lack the confidence in his ability at a big club. Your a left winger who refuses to use your left foot, you need to try it every now and again.

RedKnight

18 Nov 2012 08:47:28
Interesting point made by Strachan last night about none of the big four would want any of our midfielders.I'm wondering which of our players if any would the big clubs in Europe want?It's not many is it?

18 Nov 2012 08:20:30
last week i posted a 4 -3 -1- 2 will be suitable,fergie is losin it,instead of playin fletcher 28,anderson 24,cleverly 23 we ended yesterday's much b playing a 3 man midfield of carrick 31 ,scholes 38 and giggs 39.now do u all see the differnece..there was no midfield yesterday.what should it take ando,clevs and fletch to do before they are allowed to play.finally since fergies has decide to play this old folks ahead of the young guys ,i will personally plead with scoles and giggs to immediately call it quit if they are reading this ,they shouldnt tarnish their reputation ,leave the game for the young guys please.for a scouser to tease me that the best position for giggs is between the legs of his sisiter-in-law is disheartening

united 1999

18 Nov 2012 07:22:50
Thinking if it possible either in january/summer getting Kevin Strootman & James Rodriguez wud solve a hell of a lot of problems,any views?

-JEB-

I think strootman and rodriguez are a must buy because we need presence in the midfield and a winger who can actually take a man on.

The Devil

I will take 2 cm players instead. Wanyama and Strootman fine with me and will not cost us a fortune and probably both available.

Shahram

18 Nov 2012 02:14:32
I am disappointed with some of our fans .we might have won had van persie taken his chances or valencia could ping a decent cross in or any of the 12 odd corners produce a goal.

why cant people understand its just wasnt our day and those who want fergie out please post with your name so that we can all remember come may when we win the title and shove it up your glory hunting A**



nikz

Because inept team selection made it "not our day." ! It wasn't fate dude, it was mismanagement to a) pick the team on the day and b) to let the midfield become so weak.

I'm not going to start this response with the usual historical love-in for SAF, because its tiring travelling hundreds of miles to see how a now gerriatric midfield of Scholes, Giggs and Carrick leave us open to the mercy of any team.

Timbo

Sorry, I have to disagree.
It just wasn't our day applies when we completely dominate a team, hit the woodwork several times, their keeper has a blinder and you wonder how we didn't win the game.
Neither of those happened yesterday.

We were very poor, no tactics, poor team selection, poor substitutions, no urgency, no link up and looked more like conceding than scoring!


Karllap

18 Nov 2012 09:20:41
With your current squad you're not going to win the league, you're not going to win the Champions league and your extremely unlikely to win the Fa Cup.
Feel free to continue to big up sub par players that shouldn't be anywhere near a real Utd team, feel free to play your equivalent of the Chelsea pensioners but most importantly pray that RVP stays fit.
You squad with very few exceptions are an embarrassment to your club!

Jenny Taylor

NikZ we are all united supporters and we love our club. But when u see our manager making obvious selection mistakes, allowing our midfield to be so weak, playing with poor tactics. Then we should voice our concern. As much as some people think it, but Ferguson is not God, he makes mistakes like all of us, problem is he's making more now and is not owning up or learning from them.
I'll be the happiest man in the world if we win the PL this year, but can u honestly believe we will if we keep playing Carrick Giggs combo in midfield?
NoMidfield

Karllap, it's been like this for most of the season. We only get going when the goals have gone in at the other end. I'm getting a bit fed up of Valencia standing still with the ball waiting for the defender to commit. It takes all the pace from any attack and the move usually breaks down. Scholesy, (bless him) looked like he was running through rice pudding chasing back near the end. Chicharito is an impact player not a starter no matter how many he scores the week before. Rafael gets caught out of position too much. This is a coaching issue and he has a lot of work to do before becoming anywhere near the same standard as Gary Nev. Evra is the same although its his legs that have gone, not his head. Carrick is very good when he has lots of time but when teams get about him he isnt quick enough in thought to get away from them. Young has been sussed out as wanting to come inside off the left. Very easy to defend against. Up to now Fergie has been starting with the wrong team and correcting it when things go wrong. I wish he would put more faith in the likes of Powell, Ando, Cleverley etc. Players with energy who can get beyond the opposing midfield and make them panic a bit. Doing this means we need to buy a strong defensive midfielder, but, hey, havent we heard that before!, The last three games have been utter dross for the most part and we have got away with two out of three.
We cant keep doing that, things need to change or we will have another trophyless season. Apparently, this is whats driving the team on! (Chris Smalling in the Sun)
MANCRED 99

18 Nov 2012 01:16:01
A lot of people on this forum stated that we don't need new midfielders. On this evidence to add to the other dismal games.the fact is the strikers have been saving our bacon. Not today! If fergie did buy new players would they get in ahead of Giggs and scholes as fergie still plays them.

So ****ed off with fergie. In SAF we trust? Not at the moment I'm afraid. We are mediocre at the moment, forget Barca, we are not good enough!

mez

Mez, totally agree.

Yesterday has been coming for sometime and those that disagree need to get their red tinted glasses off.

When we play slowly like this we look very ordinary.

A

18 Nov 2012 00:11:41
Hopefully SAF will take note of this crap performance and put in Ando, Clevs and Fletch!

19-20 MUFC

I'm affraid it won't happen. I cn guarantee you that Giggs will pair again with Carrick or Scholes this season and we'll loose the game and Fergie will say nothing. He had enough time to change but he simple didn't!!


Nick86