Manchester United Banter Archive November 19 2012

19 Nov 2012 22:21:44
I would like to see the 4-3-3 given more of a chance in the next few games, but without wingers.

The obvious back four available would be:

_____________De Gea

_Rafael__Evans_____Smalling__Evra

Once Vidic and Jones are fully fit they will play a big part of the defense this season. Even though Evra can be painful to watch he is the only decent LB with have right now due to Buttner being a little careless, I still hope to see Buttner given game time though.

Now for the midfield there can be many combinations we could use, depending on the opponent really.

Say we are playing City, Chelsea etc. the 3 men I would like to see player are:

_____Fletcher_______Carrick

____________Cleverley

Kagawa to take Cleverley's spot when fit.

But if we are playing a weaker side for example QPR on Saturday a good 3 man midfield can be:

______Anderson______Carrick/Fletcher

_____________Cleverley

And obviously Kagawa in for Cleverley when fit. I do believe these two midfields would be capable to win games.

As for the attack if we are away against a decent team I would like to see this:

_____Valencia_________Rooney
_______________RVP

Valencia would give that width and I also believe Rooney can whip in a decent cross, Rooney would also be able to interchange with anyone around him so he would kind of roam about.

If we were at home for example against West Ham wingers may be more suitable like this:

_____Valencia___________Young

_______________RVP

And then Rooney playing as the CAM behind them with two CM's behind him.

I believe if Fergie tried to use these formations we would play much better with the players we currently have.

For QPR I think the best lineup would be this:

___________De Gea

__Rafael_Smalling_Ferdinand_Evra

_______Anderson_Carrick

___________Cleverley

_____Young_________Rooney

_____________RVP

I chose Young for RW because he would actually whip in some crosses unlike a strange Valencia who is going through a rough patch for some reason.

If you have any points to tell me, feel free to say!

-JakeW

U have got a lot of free time mate!!

19 Nov 2012 21:32:41
Would like to see Joshua king have a good run out tomorrow! He's looking good for the future!

I doubt King will be a United player this time next year.

Sydney!

19 Nov 2012 20:51:40
So apparently SAF will start Giggs for tomorrows match. He said he wants Giggs to gain some European experience.

What the Fxxx is Giggs to gain some European experience for? Most of the time He started then we losed in this season.

Lol love that response. Sense of humour bypass sir?

GDS

19 Nov 2012 20:23:18
i wouldnt be surprised if qpr win aswell.

Losing two games in a row? Against fairly weak sides? Doubt it. If the right team is picked I can see a few put past Julio Cesar on Saturday!

-JakeW

Norwich win just because AF's pathetic team selection AGAIN! Any of those top managers in the world should win with obviously better line up available.
QPR probably would win again if AF tries Giggs, Carrick, Scholes.

19 Nov 2012 20:05:04
im a Leeds fan i just want to say to the fans going to istanbul tomorrow please be safe all rivalry aside its only a game and ill be hoping you all make it back safely

George Leeds

19 Nov 2012 18:30:56
Eds,guys......if Celtic and Juve fail to qualify to the knockout, will be we allowed to play Wanyama or Vidal in champions league if we were to buy any one or both?

MUMBAI_BOY

Yeah we could register one player who has played previously as long as the old cub is out of CL.

Jono

19 Nov 2012 17:52:59
Guys,can someone please clarify me why when it comes to pairing our midfielders
ferge prefers playing giggs/sholes and carrick to clevery/anderson and fletcher?
My greatest fear now is that if mistakenly we are tied with Barca again,history will repeat itself.This is because ferge will field his best in the persons of Giggs/Sholes and Carrick leaving out these pacy and hard tackling young players in the persons of Anderson/Clevery and Fletcher

None of us can clarify it as none of us understand the tactic!

AJH

I hope either one of AF or Giggs&Scholes pair retire next summer. If Giggs & Scholes retires, AF couldn't line up them, if AF retires first, Giggs & Scholes couldn't be start a game again.

19 Nov 2012 17:46:46
With the squad going to Turkey I can see this being the team... Not saying it's what I'd pick but I have a feeling this is what it will be.

-------------Lindegaard--------------

Vermijl---Jones--Wooton--Buttner

---------------Fletcher----------------

---------Powell----Anderson--------

Young------------------------Petrucci

--------------Welbeck-----------------


Now to go through why I picked it... Lindegaard is self explanatory, Vermijl needs to play had a decent game against Newcastle and Rafael needs a rest. Jones and Wooton is a no brainer unless fergie decides to throw Carrick in there. Buttner picks himself (only left back). Fletcher will protect a young back four. Cleverley will and should get a rest and personally want Powell to start. Anderson deserves a game for once. Young needs games under his belt after his injury. Petrucci played there on the tour on the wing and I think he will do it again tomorrow night, drifting in and allowing Buttner to overlap him. Welbeck needs a start, he deserves it after his performance for England and I could see Macheda getting 20 minutes at the end.

RedKnight {Ed004's Note - Hopefully that is the team tomorrow}

I would change wooton for keane

Keane is injured

Mad Hattter

Gaard
Raf
Buttner
Carrick
Wootton
Fletcher
Cleverley
Anderson
Young
Chicharito
Welbeck

Will all start I'm sure.

TJ

Even if Keane was fit, he'd be at Leicester on loan

RedKnight

TJ

Carrick in defence.... he is useless there. Smalling will ore than likely play CB, with Perhaps Jones starting at RB or making a sub appeaance.

Mad Hatter

19 Nov 2012 17:34:12
i think we have the players in the squad to win the league and its not as bad as some are saying but i do agree there are some issues at the moment and SAF needs to be questioned.

defensively we have vidic, jones and evans to come back and smalling will be class again when hes played more games, him and vidic at the back will hopefully mean no more rio whos blatently not good enough anymore. Evra is the week link and needs replacing asap.

we have the midfielders in the squad, SAF could get away with playing carrick or scholes if he plays them with some legs ie cleverly(my 1st choice) fletcher or andersson. If he plays carrick with scholes or giggs we are awful everytime and i hope the norwich game has confirmed that to SAF but sadly i dont think it has.Giggs shouldnt start another game just give him the odd sub appearance because he still has the vision to create chances. Valencia not on form but he will get there and many are forgetting how good he has been last couple of years. Young will improve with games but we need more from Nani or another winger in Jan.
Up front we are better than anyone.
Hope he stops leaving de gaey out and gives him the run of games he needs.
SAF will come good as he nearly always does and i believe we will win the league this year. Then next summer with a new left back, winger and maybe cm we wont be far off in europe either.
Will Red

19 Nov 2012 16:53:37
Edds do you know if Manchester united have shown any interest in Isco and if so is it seriou? what are the chances of us making a bid for him? & if we did bid what are the chances of him coming to play his football at United? {Ed004's Note - I think interest has been shown in him. If we had a bid accepted I say he would be open for a move}

I posted the same question last week and ed002 does not believe we have an interest him.

Shahram

19 Nov 2012 13:44:30
Petrucci is in the squad for tomorrow...

LETS hope he gets a game..

Oxred

Probably the best piece of news i have gotten over the last few days. I really think the lads got it. Hope he gets some game time.

Best of luck Davide :)

Deeps...

I have to hold my hands up and admit i never watch or follow the youth team, whats Petrucci like and were does he play?
Are there any other players looking like they might break through to the 1st team.
Wooten and Keane have done well imo unlucky against chelsea in the CC.
Also hear a few things about brady, can anybody enlighten me, cheers!

Giants14

Brady is on loan at hull so wont be in the squad,imo its 50-50 as to whether he makes it at utd,the ones i have high hopes for are powell,petrucci,januzaj,blackett,daehli,peirera,the keane brothers,lingard and henriquez,not saying all will break into the 1st team but i feel they are the ones with the best chance

phil

Phil are you serious Brady is one of the best if not thee best coming tru the youth set up has played already an played well also broke into the Irish team the lad is gifted not sayin he is better than the rest it's just that he is progressing faster than most squad member for next season deffo .......

CAIN

Giants, Petrucci started his career as an am/2nd striker. Before moving to Manchester United, he was ar Roma where he was dubbed as the new Totti because of his outrageous vision and wonderful flicks and touches. He was probably the best in his age group at that time.

He earned a move to manchester united where he adapted quickly to the ennglish game ( reseves ) and he ozzed class. He was poised to get a chance in the first team soon. then injury struck. He was out of the team for the best part of 2 years.

When he made his comeback he was no longuer the silky attacking midfielder ( a la Berbatov ), he became more of a beast in central midfield. he gained quite a bit of muscle weight and became a real midfield powerhouse, without having lost any of the skills and vision that made him such a huge talent. His hard work was rewarded when he was given the captain's armband.

Now he is the type of players who controls the tempo of the game with his great passing range, is extremly comfortable on the ball and is brilliant technically, but can still deliver some crunshing tackles and some killer passes. Atm he is more like Pirlo than totti.

Mick

Sounds like what we need.

shahram

19 Nov 2012 13:39:53
here's a quote from SAF after united's defeat to chelsea in capital one cup..

"Anderson was the best player on the pitch [on Wednesday] until he tired, said Ferguson. He needs games now and hopefully we can give him them."

the manager publicly stated that anderson needs more game time..yet since that game he has played for 137mins on a total of 360mins. thats not even half of it..

so we can imagine how anderson might feel taking into account fergie's comments on giving him game time..

also some epl game time of our midfielders this season so far (in minutes):
Carrick -1080
Scholes - 497
Cleverley - 471
Giggs - 325
Anderson - 153
Powell - 19
Fletcher - 0
Tunnicliffe - 0

source:soccerway

Loving the stats
jake

I love this, it is perfectly indicative of what is wrong with our squad, and fergie's selections this season.
Cheers

Jaxer

That's what annoyed me so much on Sat, we didn't lose the game because we don't have a good enough midfield we lost it because we left our best CM options on the bench IMO. Carrick and Ando would have been a far more progressive and athletic combination than any combo involving Giggs

Gav

If AF retired first, then new manager wouldn't line up Giggs/Scholes. If Giggs/Scholes retired first, AF can't start them first. Someone of them please retire ASAP then we are done.

19 Nov 2012 13:39:04
I'm very happy to see this is the squad for Galastaray.

Sam Johnstone, Anders Lindegaard; Rafael, Alexander Buttner, Phil Jones, Tom Thorpe, Marnick Vermijl, Scott Wootton; Michael Carrick, Davide Petrucci, Larnell Cole, Tom Cleverley, Darren Fletcher, Anderson, Nick Powell, Ashley Young, Ryan Tunnicliffe; Javier Hernandez, Joshua King, Danny Welbeck, Federico Macheda.

Very happy to see Tunnicliffe and Petrucci, maybe if they place, it well show SAF that they should be first team players, happy to see people like Jones and Wootton too

19 Nov 2012 12:56:03
"So he does 50 things right and loses his man once, which I didn't really think was his fault and he isn't good enough? Silly".

GDS

Didn't say he wasn't good enough, just probably not the new Messiah, the way you experts are bigging him up.

19 Nov 2012 12:10:37
Last weekend we started with a team with an average age of 28.5. We finished with a team with an average age of 28.3.

If we are a club in transition, then it must be a transition to frequent bowl movements, 6.pm bedtimes, and trousers up to the elbows.

Danny Pughnited

btw: the average age of the Chelsea team that started against West Brom was 24.2. That's a team in transition.

19 Nov 2012 13:21:15
Yes, but we have Giggs, Scholes, Ferdinand etc that will bring the average age up. Just because our average age has been higher it has no substantiated corrolation with being in transition or not.
Do people on here actually support UTD or just look for any little thing to moan about.

Whistler.

Whistler don't be silly. We've been told year after year that the club policy is to invest in youth. But year after year youth gets shunted to the side in favour of ageing and increasingly uncompetitive older players. A club in transition is a club like Chelsea who are actively giving young players an opportunity to displace the old guard. They have a core set of young players who are pushing their way into the stating 11, and even though the older players still have a role to play, there is a clear stratgey to make sure that the young players are ready.


At United the only players under the age of 25 who would be considered first choice starting 11 are Rafael and De Gea. We then have Cleverly, Hernandez, and Welbeck who also get decent game time. And Kagawa, Evans, Smalling and Jones who would possibly be getting more game time if they wasn't for injuries. Overall the core of our team is old and we have displayed no willingness to give young players a real chance to displace the old guard. If anything, we have regressed since last season to the point where the club are putting less and less faith in young players. It's not that we don't have the players to be in-transition, it's that the manager refuses to give our young players a real chance to become the core of a new United team.

Danny Pughnited

19 Nov 2012 17:28:19
I just don't know what everyone wants. We are trying to blood in a young keeper who in my opinion shouldn't be playing every game anyway, Rafael, Jones, Smalling, Cleverley, Welbeck, Buttner and Hernandez. Wooton and Varmijl have also had a sniff. All very young and still reletively inexperienced. Chelsea aren't bringing through THAT much of their own youth, they are simply playing young world class talent they invested heavily in. We were frustratingly unsuccesful in that.
If things had have gone better we could/should/would still have Pogba and Morrison too. (whole other debate).
The club could have done some things better granted, but couldn't all?
I think we just need a bit of patience because we have some more, younger players who seem to be a talented bunch. I think patience and timing in bringing them through is everything. I think SAF knows that.
In an ideal, rich world and If we weren't restricted by the glazers maybe we would have invested in midfield. Who knows.
Whilst I don't follow the club blindly, I do know there are a few people at the club who know how to bring kids through better than you or I.
Just chill, enjoy the ride....

Whistler.

19 Nov 2012 11:31:39
Can any1 tell me the reason why CANTONA retired at the age of 30??? he could have still continued for 5 more yrs... :( :( :( {Ed002's Note - He wanted a new challenge.}

M really eager to know what that challange is...? {Ed002's Note - He has done many different things since laving MU - acting, a director of a football club etc..}

He claimed to have fallen out of love with the game. He retired at the right time for me. Perhaps he could've had another year or 2 but he decided to call it a day whilst at the top so fair play to him.

TK-Red

Because of he had stayed until he was 38 or 39 he would have ruined the legacy and people will start to forget what an amazing player he was. Ring any bells?

He retired at the top and people still call him the king even though he never won the European cup with us.

GDS

Thanks guys !! :) cantona rules m/

19 Nov 2012 17:43:22
Disappointed with that comment GDS.

Whistler.

'Whistler'

GDS is right though. Imagine if Cantona had played on for another 5 years, his form had dipped, and the found himself being scrutinized in exactly the same way that Giggs and Scholes are currently. Cantona did the smart thing.

TK-Red

19 Nov 2012 09:30:31
Hi, out of curiosity does anyone know what our stats are when we are shown on Live On UK ESPN, we always seems to perform poorly when we are. Could it be that we are just not comfortable with playing at 5.30pm for some reason. Just a thought, also does Burlley have something against United he love having digs at the players when he commentates.
KevDarko

19 Nov 2012 07:56:54
I'm sure Premiership teams have been encouraged more to use the youth squad players from the bench more often. I believe that was why an extra 2 subs were added to the bench 3/4 seasons ago.

United don't seem to be taking advantage of this fully.

Pogba for instance left through lack of games. I believe Morrison would still be here at the Club if he was travelling more with the first team more often. Under a close eye from the Manager, Coaches & experienced players could of been the arm round him/kick up the backside he needed to be the player he has the potential to be. United staff have to learn from their mistakes.

Why don't we try this more.

1) Goalies hardly ever come on as a sub. Lindegaard & DeGea seem to swap every now & again to keep them in competion. That's fine. Lindegaard will at least get 10 Prem starts to get a Prem medal if we win the title. So why not mix it up against the easier teams & throw the like of Johnstone on the bench against weaker opposition. He most likely will not be needed but it will give him confidence & I'm sure he'd relish the oppertunities to travel with the first team. He could learn a lot.

2) Vidic, Ferdinand & Evra probably pick themselves when fit. Evans the most experienced to step in when either CB needs a rest or is most likely injured. Rafael is turning out to be a class RB. Though I would switch him against the likes of Everton, WBA, Stoke & Sunderland because they bambard the box with crosses & corners to attack with the height they have in the team. We struggle with both Evra & Rafael being under 6ft so it's a good chance to use Jones at
RB.

3) Powell should always be travelling with the first team & on the bench. Even if he doesn't get a game he's learning from the older heads by being with them.

4) van Persie & Rooney should always be the main pairing. Chicharito is very dangerous from the bench. That leaves one more spot for a striker? Alternate from Welbeck still learning, W.Keane could be a very promising player if he comes back from injury unscathed. Also the new lad, could he be a "super sub "? He seems to be a natural finisher.

So my theory.......

GK Lindegaard against top 12 Clubs plus Europe. Johnstone against the lower 8 Prem teams plus sub for FA Cup games.

DEF 1 of Evans or Smalling as first option if an injury occures. Both experienced defenders to step in.

DEF 1 of Jones (RB,CB,DM) or Thorpe (RB,LB,CB,DM)

MID 1 of Fletcher, Giggs, Scholes all experienced.

MID 1 of Powell, Petrucci or (Møller Dælhi only to be used if we are 2/3-0 up last 10 minutes)

ST 1 of Chicharito or Welbeck. More experienced options.

ST 1 of W.Keane, Henriquez or (Januzaj only to be used if 2/3-0 up last 10 minutes)

This would be more beneficial to the team/squad in the future. Plus you have a more experienced player in DEF/MID/ST before you have to look at the younger options on the bench. It would just be nice if a strong XI were ahead 2/3-0 and 1 or 2 of Powell, Petrucci or W.Keane, Henriquez were bought on instead of Scholes or Giggs which has been happening this season. I don't see what the point is. Okay it's pushing the appearance stats up of these two
legends but c'mon!!

I've not added Amos, M.Keane, Brown, Lingard, Brady or Cofie to my argument of youth on the bench because they are getting playing time on loan.

I've also not mentioned Vermijl cause Jones & Smalling would be ahead of him for RB.

Tunnicliffe because again Jones can cover that DM from the bench even Thorpe if needed. Plus I'd rather Powell,
Petrucci or Møller Dælhi have that 1 spare midfield spot on the bench.

Come on Fergie have some faith in your youth system once again. You might be pleasantly surprised & the likes of the players I've mentioned could, COULD HOPEFULLY save you millions in the transfer Market come the summer.

TJ

We need a change, a spark. Something/someone new to get excited about off the bench. A new song to sing for a promising new player.

Plus wouldn't it be nice to be chanting "Keano" again when one of the twins are warming up. :-)

"Powell, Powell from Crewe Acadamy. Scored a goal at Wemb-er-ly. We've signed him up, an he'll score goals. Replacing a legend of the Club Paul Scholes"

We need to replace Park's song ha ha.

19 Nov 2012 07:16:38
Man utd fans fail to realize we are in a good position . 2nd in table and top in cl ! the main aim was to be there abouts in the prem at end of year and at least qualify fo cl! they have the first so revenue will be higher of tv income, expect to see that midfeilder next summer

BIg V

We were bad. Have been for most bits since losing to wigan last season. atleast valencia was good on the wings at the end of last season. Yesterday our entire midfield was abysmal. yes, carrick had a few good moments, but that is not sufficient. i dont know what the manager thinks and am pretty sure he knows more football than me so I am hoping things change soon. But please dont say all is well and we can get that midfielder next summer and become world beaters. we are far far from it.
Trident!

Big V

We still are in a good position and have qualified for the next round of the CL but that doesnt stop people including me being annoyed and disappointed after a defeat.
Always i don't care about tv income and revenue - i want trophies, i wont be satisfied with getting in the top 4 and saying thank you very much, United should be competeing in the league and Champs League and with the squad going far in the cups.
We have lost three matches this season, Everton (a) Spurs (h) and Norwich, three games which we should be aiming for 9 points i understand football doesnt work like that - going to Goodison park is tough and a accepted the defeat, Spurs we should have win it in the end after our 2nd half but early goals cost us.

Norwich - i mean no disrespect to Norwich but we should be dominating the match from the beginning and running out winners, they battled harder and wanted it more but were was the problem? When i seen the team sheet i knew we were in trouble with Giggs and Carrick - No pace or energy but the whole teams performance was woeful, i have been watching footy for years - fergie alot longer than me it has to surely see we have a problem, the forwards have papered over the cracks so far this season and if we don't strengthen the middle in Jan i cant see us doing anything in either the EPL or CL.

Giants14

19 Nov 2012 00:45:59
i seriously hate carrick he does nt attack does nt defend nly passes the ball backward &sideways and takes his own sweet tym doing that has no pace no mobility cant go past ppl cant tackle tries a hollywood ball every now and then unsuccessfully ofcourse
i cant see wat he bring to the team at least in the league

vishu red devil

Hate is a strong word, how can you hate a player who has done a lot for the clubs in the last years he has been here?

-JakeW

Why do you hate carrick. He is being asked to play as a defensive midfielder sitting in front of the back four as Evra and Ferdinand have lost pace and need protection.

Our issue is we do not have a creative advanced midfielder except scholes, who can pass but can't tackle or has the required speed to track back and people are running past him.

In the Norwich game Giggs was playing the advanced role but his passing and distribution is rubbish and there was no link up play and a massive gap in positioning between the forwards and midfielders. Almost zero service for the forwards.

Our teams biggest issue is we have a lack of pace in the middle of the park and in our defense. When we play the best passers and distributors and the guys have no pace scholes/carrick and do not dribble past anyone because if they lose the ball we are left exposed and hence a lot of the sideways stuff. The fact that most teams know there is not much of a threat from our centre midfielder trying to dribble past their centre midfielders, they are doubling up on the wings and hence our wingers all look like rubbish and getting slagged here very week.

The other option is Playing guys like Cleverly and Anderson who are average passers but still have the legs to dribble past people and provide cover. (my preference)

It is a dilemma for SAF every game as you give up pace when you play the best passers and you give up distribute when you play the younger guys. All in all very poor options for a team with the only viable solution being buying two cm as there is nothing in the reserves or current team that will remedy this.

Jones will be able to do a job as a defensive midfielder but people better be prepared that he will make his fair share of bad passes and poor first touch as he is still very young.

I think it is the manager who is playing people in certain positions and with certain instructions, so don't hate the player, hate the set up and tactics.

Shahram

Its very easy to go and put a blame out to someone who isent a flair player. IMO the kind of shambles our midfield is in, Carrick is the best of the lot. Being played as a DM to cover for our ageing defenders is not his fault. Another case of playing slightly out of position and strength. When given freedom and playing higher up the pitch his passing and distribution are infact very good. He dosent have the pace, but if he is paired with a Giggs or Scholes, not sure how is it his fault.

Deeps...

How can you talk such bo**ocks Carrick is in the top 3 for interceptions etc he doesn't tackle hes a good player, the fact is he isn't Toure that is the type of player we need

Pardoe

Deeps

i completely agree as a package he is our best midfielder. SAF might get blamed for many things but he is not stupid or blind. Carrick is probably one of constant name on the team sheet for all the big games.



Shahram

It's more SAF's fault for partnering him with Giggs. Carrick is actually a decent all round CM, nothing more but certainly nothing less

Gav

19 Nov 2012 00:16:18
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Kenny Morgans~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
************(16 March 1939 “ 18 November 2012)************
RIP Busby Babe. Manchester United confirm the sad news that former player Kenny Morgans who survived the Munich Air Disaster has died.
He was 73.


RamoN 19