Manchester United Banter Archive November 19 2013

19 Nov 2013 21:25:19
The world's greatest player, made in Manchester. Ronaldo showed tonight just what a superstar he is. Yes he is arrogant, yes he is conceited but when you play like he does, wouldn't you be? What a player.

We can hope that one day the great man returns.

Amazing tonight mate. I love Messi, but if Ronny doesn't win the Balon D'or this year, there's something seriously wrong. Never goes missing in the big games.

StevieK

Stevie

How is everything, it sounds like there are some issues again over there. You ok?

Good mate. Thanks for asking. Hectic year, but last few months have been much quieter.

I say that, but it's coming up to another bloody anniversary (there's always an anniversary for something over here!), so getting my kit out of storage again. I can see my xmas plans with the family going up in smoke (not literally I hope).

But the media are under strict orders not to rock the boat by reporting most of the stuff that's going on, so we're all still pretending there's peace here :)

Where are you Stevie if I may ask?

God's Own Country, Pardoe - Norn Iron :)

Spot on Stevie K. Ronaldo made it happen for Portugal because you could see how much he wanted it. It was Keanesque

I wish we saw the same level of determination and drive from the England players even in a friendly.

19 Nov 2013 10:33:36
Now yesterday I mentioned the possiblity of signing Mousa Dembele, and he was rubbished by a few posters. Now I could post many stats that show that Dembele is better than all our current midfielders, but then everyone is entitled to their own opinions. And if your of the opinion that Dembele is a poor player than fair enough.

But can any of you name a better midfield target for January?

Were talking about someone who can come in and make a difference at a key time of the season, someone who can settle straight away so probably would have Prem experiance, someone who's club will be willing to sell in January, someone who will be prepared to risk their place in their national team ahead of a world cup by moving clubs. And of course someone who you feel is better than Dembele.

If you can't name someone then are you suggesting that we stick with our current midfield options until next summer?

I'm looking at you Pardoe and Nomidfield, come on lads.

I am a fan of Demebele ever since he joined Fulham and dominated the midfield against us for Fulham so I would happily welcome him in January, but from an article I read today on Witsel wanting to move to a Big Club. Granted he hasn't got EPL experiance but having watched him I am very impressed and think he would be a better signing if available, but if not I would be very happy with Demebele since he's a very good player just not as good as Witsel
Thanks

U mean apart from when he's not injured? Which I think is more likely than him coming in and rejuvenating our midfield.

Shappy the drawback is for instance look at Fellaini he kicked our arse at least twice he's come to the biggest club in the world and hasn't pulled up trees.
Dembele we will disagree on I'm not sure he would do any better, every player is a risk just with United there's more pressure.
I would go with Gundogan or Reus IF possible, maybe Witsel I don't know much about him but who knows if its even possible to get them

Shappy - As you well know, stats don't tell the whole story and the signing of Dembele would only be a temporary 'fix' as I suspect that once our summer transfer business is completed, Dembele will be no happier playing second fiddle at OT than he is at Spurs. With that in mind, we would be better off trying to sign him on loan for 6 months and certainly not spending the money Spurs would want. I would rather keep that money to be put towards world class players in the summer rather than sign another, albeit decent, squad player.

19 Nov 2013 12:39:59
CTR, I don't know where people keep getting the idea that he is injury prone from, he's spent 6 weeks out injuried in total over the last two seasons. that's hardly an injury prone player.

Gundogan will not move in January, first off Dortmund won't sell him, second he is coming back from an injury and will careful management, and thirdly he won't want to risk getting over his injury or any effect on his form to move just before a world cup where he has the chance to shine for one of the few european teams who could win it in Brazil. So we can forget about signing him until the summer at least.

Witsel is an interesting option and certainly a better player than Dembele. But he has several draw backs. Firstly he has never played in a top league, so he could take a little time to adjust to the Prem, secondly he will cost close to 30m, and finally the russian league runs at a different time of year due to weather, this means in january he'll be coming to the end of a tough season and will he expected to play for us with no rest then he'll go to a world cup with his national team, after which he'll return then a few weeks later the Premier league season starts. He'll need a long rest at some point or risk burn out and/or injury. That is the problem with signing players from the russian league.

So although he is potentially a better long term signing he comes with sevreal issues in the short term.

Not much wrong with what Shapps is saying actually. let's snap out of La La land and assess our options practically. Do people really think we are going to get Gundogan or Reus in the Jan transfer window? Sorry but there are more chances of me playing for Manchester United. (Now that's saying something).

He tore us a new one when with Fulham, ripped us to shreds in the OT encounter last year playing for Spurs. He was their best MF till Paulinho came in. Most of us were crying foul how Spurs could snap him up for a meagre sum and we were offering 5 million for him. Short memory I say, let's no wet ourselves imagining the next fad player to join us.

I think he will be a very good fix for the time being.

Deeps.

Tk is right, just because dembele is better than what we have doesn't mean we should sign him, I personally think/hope we are after bigger and better targets

Although I am a fan of Dembele, he is not the right midfielder for us right now. We need a player that can create chances. Dembele is an all action box-to-box runner, but he isn't the creative force that we need. If it comes down to a choice between signing a stop gap like Dembele now or a top player like Gundogan in the summer, then we should hold out for the top player.

Coincidentally Shappy, what price do you think Dembele would be sold for. He is obviously throwing a strop because he was dropped, but Spurs don't want to sell him. Do you think Levy would sell him for anything below £20m? I can't see him coming cheap regardless of how unhappy he is, he's on a long contract and Spurs need him as a squad player. In truth he would have been a much better fit for us than Fellaini, but that ship has sailed.

19 Nov 2013 13:19:58
TK, we all know stats only tell half the story. But they can be useful to look at specifics and making direct comparisions on two or more players on certain aspects of the game. This will give you a rough idea of the talents of an individual player.

At our club everyone is a squad player, and rotation is common place. With different players coming in to certain games based on tactical decisions.

I doubt we'll sign two world class midfielders due to the cost and the differcult nature of sign such players making it hard enough to sign one such player let alone two or more. Plus I expect us to make signings else where as Moyes tries to put his own stamp on the squad. I expect we'll see one or two defenders, two midfielders and one or two forwards. So that's potentially six new players, probably at least five coming in over the next two windows.

If we sign two 30m+ midifelders that doesn't leave much money left to sign the other 3/4 players Moyes will want to sign.

I highly doubt we can sign such a world class midfielder in January, so we may have to accept signing someone who is either just short of world class but an improvement on our current options or a player with potential in January or we can limp though the whole season with no other midfield reinforcements.

So maybe signing someone like Dembele in January and a world class midfielder next summer such as Gundogan.

That would give us a good mix of players in midfield. We'd have a strong physical player in Fellaini, a deeplying playmaker in Carrick, a strong box to box midfielder in Dembele and a mobile modern playmaker in Gundogan along with Cleverley as the squad player filling in the holes when needed.

I am torn over weather I would want Witsel over Dembele. Yes he seems to be better in a different league but he has a very bad temperament and has been known to go in over the top and excessive which could leave the team short if he loses his temper.

With Capoue, Paulinho and Sandro ahead of Dembele, I do see him wanting more first team football at a big club.

Saying he wouldn't make it is a cop out. Rooney came from a smaller team and done the business, Berbatov, Cantona, Keane, Ronaldo, Ferdinand. All came from weaker teams and have shone. So to say "just because Dembele was playing well for a weaker team in Fulham and a Stronger team in Spurs, doesn't mean he would do it for us". Every signing is a gamble and if we were to dwell on possible signings this much we would never sign anyone. Is he a long term fix, Probably not. Would he improve our team, most definitely.

Gundogen or Reus will not be moving in January. Why would they? They are both happy, Gundogen back from injury but will surely get first team action once he is back to his consistent best. And Reus is the constant on the Dortmund team sheet.

Dembele is the best option as of right now that will come in and improve our midfield.

19 Nov 2013 13:36:15
Jred, I think there is going to be a lack of genuine options in January, and with Carricks injury and Fellaini needing an opporation and the time it will take for both of them to fully recover. That means in the mean time we will have a midfield of Cleverley and Giggs. So we are in dire need as if we have to rely on them for the whole season we will be in trouble.

Danny, I think we need two different types of midfielder to give us a good range of options. We have no box to box midfielder and have had to play Jones in that role. And although he has done well we need someone who is better techniacally in that role and Dembele definately fits into that role. We also need a new playmaker and a true world class one, but such a player isn't going to be available in January, so we will be better off looking for a great box to box midfielder in January so that we don't have to rely on two of Cleverley, Jones and Giggs for the rest of the season.

As for cost I would expect that Levy would look for between 20-25m for Dembele ordernarily. But I don't think AVB sees Dembele as so vital after the signing of Paulinho but he is in desperate need for a striker. And he likes the look of Hernandez who is also kean to move on to get first team football to ensure he gets to go to the world cup.

So we have a player that Levy wants and he hasn't got us over a barrel like he did with Carrick amd Berbatov.

So the best thing we could do is do some kind of swap deal, that way both players get a move to a team where they'll get more first team football, both teams get to improve and both chairmen can claim they got the better deal thus keeping face and with very little expense saving money for other deals for the summer.

19 Nov 2013 14:30:51
Dembele has a lot of attributes. He's aggressive, can tackle, he has a good range of passing. He reads the game well and can make intelligent runs. As a player, I really rate him and I believe he would definitely add something to the squad. But I have to agree with Danny Pughnited: that ship has sailed. Mr Levy would be looking for way above his value and I believe Moyes is looking beyond January sales. I don't think a considerable amount of money will be invested in January, if any. I think we will see considerable transfer activity come the summer. Midfield and defence will be strengthened. I've a funny feeling a forward may come in as well.
Witsel would be a good buy. I really rate him. Looks fantastic on the ball and has a lot of class. Whenever he plays with Fellaini for Belgium, the pair of them boss the midfield. I wouldn't be surprised if Moyes went for him at some point.
Just on a separate note, and for a bit of fun (seeing as we are a right shower of forty something misanthropes, how about posting a worst United team ever. It would be good to remind ourselves of how bad things have been at times. Here's mine, remember, it is just a bit of a laugh: Paddy Roache, Arthur Graham, Michael Clegg, William Prunier, Graham Hogg, Darren Ferguson, Ashley Grimes, Russell Beardsmore, Djemba-Djemba, Gary Birtles and Dion Dublin. Subs would be Taibi, Kleberson, Gary Micklewhite, Ralph Milne, David Bellion.

Shappy
Carrick and fellaini are rarely injured to be fair .
Moyes payed the best part of 30 mill for Fellaini so I am sure he is very much in his plans long term .
Carrick has just signed a new deal and I think will continue to play a big part.
Spurs would want 20 mill for dembele imo and I will be amazed if we try to sign him, I think moyes is looking for a bigger name .
Dembele is a good player but I don't think he is the wc cm we need .

I like Dembele, but it's Witsel for me every time, Shaps. I've been banging his drum for years, and genuinely thought he'd be a Utd player by now.

There's still hope.

And at the risk of giving Jono a wet dream, I'd take Cabaye too before Dembele.

The team needs a number of new players: two midfielders, a left back, two new wingers (especially if Moyes isn't keen on Zaha), and possibly a new central defender. Now we're never going to have the cash to sign the people we need and it will take a few transfer widows to bring them all in, so we need to prioritise. The main priorities need to be a left back, a creative mid and a left sided winger, in that order. A box-to-box mid would be an addition to the squad and not a guaranteed starter, so I can't imagine why we'd spend £20m-£25m when we need more quality in the starting 11.

A swap deal may seem like a good idea, but the problem is that we would then need to sign another striker. I think it's inevitable that we will sell Hernandez at some stage, but we need to have a replacement lined up. At the moment he is the only cover we have for RVP, and we need to have at least one other striker who runs the defensive lines. Plus if we were selling Hernandez, why wouldn't we get money and spend it on Herrera?

Dembele, Cabaye and even Herrera are 3 very good players. I watch a lot of Spanish footie on t.v. but have never thought, wow we must get him, about Herrera as I did with Thiago.
Guess I'll continue to be a dreamer and imagine Vidal and Fabregas here. Perhaps the eds could start a fantasy rumours site just for me? Seriously though I don't see why should be looking for anything short of world class.

I can see the argument ( if no world class players are available ) why not strengthen the team with what is available. I just don't believe its a long term answer.

Gundogan and reus will both go for silly money they will not be coming to utd

Gundagon will only have 12 month on his contract this summer, reus has a clause in his contract similar to gotze.

I would buy Herrera before dembele

Shappy, I expected much better from you.

I would take Schneiderlin and Cabaye before taking Dembele, and I don't rate either particularly high.

Look at his qualities. He is strong and he can drive forward with the ball at his feet.

On the other hand, he is a very average passer ( not much better than Fellaini ) and he has got to be one of the laziest players in the league.

We already got 2 static midfielders in Carrick and fellaini, and they are both better players than he is ( maybe not on current form ).

What you can't forget is that there is a reason he is not a starter at Tottenham. He is third choice behind Sandro when fit and Paulinho, who, imo, is average and not worth half the money Spurs paid for him.

He might be better than Cleverley but we should be aiming higher.

I think we proved with Young that when you buy average quality, even when needed, you will have to replace them eventually.

I'd rather wait until the summer, or even the next one, if it meant buying a better player who will be a long term starter.

Witsel, Gundogan, Khedira, Song, Benders, Herrera, Vidal . are all significantly better options than Dembele, and breaking the bank for him this january would mean we'd have less funds available to buy one or more of these players than I'd rather have giggs start in midfield ( ok maybe not but still )

18 Nov 2013 23:13:52
Seen a post in regards to maybe losing Hernandez to spurs and signing dembele saying how we'd need to possibly sign a striker. But surely that would be the time to promote Will Keane because he is deadly infront of goal he doesn't miss! Since his return from injury he's been scoring which is great to see. I think we should give him a chance!