Manchester United Banter Archive September 19 2014

19 Sep 2014 13:33:17
I am looking forward to the Chelsea fixture on about 5 weeks time. If results go our way agin this weekend with a city/chelsea draw and a liverpool defeat we will have made up most of the ground we lost in the 1st few matches. In a months time I believe we will be ready to take on the other main rivals
Chelsea / city / arsenal and pool have all shown us this week that they are over rated and none of them can claim to be outstanding, I don't subscribe to the view that its beytween chelsea and city they are not as good as some suggest. Once we have had a few weeks to bed the new players in we are better on paper than any of them and I have no doubt with 6 games to go we will be right in the mix for title 21.
Pool will finish outside the top six as will Spurs IMO

I love these type of predictions

They aren't outstanding teams you're right. Chelsea have an outstanding forward in Diego Costa but if he is injured then they aren't as good. City the same with Aguero and Yaya.

I'd actually say on balance that now we have the best team in terms of individuals: Falcao, Di Maria, RVP, Rooney, Mata - they'd get into most of our rivals teams.

Mata, RVP & Rooney wouldn't get into the City or Chelsea teams Fresh imo. Those are the two that matter to me. We are stronger than Arsenal, Spurs & Liverpool now that's for sure.

LVG will need to work his magic in order for us to compete with those two as man for man they are far superior to us at the moment and City have Aguero & Mangala to come in.

None of our defenders would get near the City or Chelsea teams either at the moment. Only ADM would play in their midfields.

Well Beast I would play Rooney and RVP ahead of Dzeko, Negredo or Jovetic. I would have Mata over Oscar as well. I would also have all of our strikers over everyone in the Chelsea team apart from Diego Costa. So I think they would.

Ken
If you are judging those three teams by just one week's performance and deeming them overrated then by that logic we were on our way to relegation before the qpr game. Just like us, a lot of teams are just starting out and have a lot of new players that will take time to gel

19 Sep 2014 15:05:19
Chelsea only play with one striker and nobody would get in the team over costa. Jose decided he wanted Oscar over Mata, and he probably knows a bit more than we do. Maybe Di Maria would get in on the right over Willian, but that's about it.

Mata, Rooney or Van Persie wouldn't get in the Liverpool team sorry, Di Maria might and Falcao hasn't been at the top level for over a year. He is unproven yet in the premiership so I will reserve judgement on him. Shaw, Blind, Rojo and Herrera are no better than what we already have.
The only other player from Utd that might improve us would be DeGea but he has his faults too. So i honestly think 2/3 would have any chance. But hey that's only my opinion.

Fresh - Are you talking first 11 in important games, or are you talking about Carling Cup matches? If the later then yes they would start for City & Chelsea potentially (only potentially).

Obviously it's about opinions but when you look at it properly it's hard to dispute what I have written below.

Chelsea have one man upfront that would be Costa, not RVP or Rooney. RVP & Rooney would not play as AM's for Chelsea or City.

Chelsea sold us Mata because he wouldn't be starting ahead of their attacking midfielders, he hasn't improved since coming to us so I very much doubt he would get into their team now.

Aguero would start ahead of Rooney & RVP upfront, he is better than them pure and simple. Dzeko has been playing partly because Aguero is unfit, so Dzeko, Negredo & Jovetic shouldn't really be considered and those are more debateable despite Negredo not being there. Jovetic looked dynamite during pre-season and started far better than both RVP & Rooney.

I also think Dzeko has performed far better than RVP & Rooney so even if they went for Aguero deeper Dzeko would still start ahead of RVP & Rooney based on form alone. However as they have mainly been playing one striker, Aguero starts ahead of our two all day long.

Silva is better than Mata. I would also personally rather have Nasri than Mata, but Silva would always be picked ahead of Mata.

I don't like admitting opposition players are better than our own, but when you say that RVP, Rooney & Mata would start for City & Chelsea I think you are deluding yourself a bit mate.

19 Sep 2014 15:27:33
Simon your wrong.

Rooney rvp and mata would all get games at chelsea and city.
Would they make the starting 11 every week ?
Im not sure they will make the starting 11 every week at united.

I think our attacking unit will get as many goals as city and chelsea the issue will be at the back imo

Aguero goal record over the last 2 years is excellent, 45 goals in 75 games.
Thats right up there with rvp 48 goals in 76.

CTR,
It's my opinion, some will agree some won't. I don't expect many Utd fans would anyway. Half the Utd fans on here can't even agree on Rooney. I'm open to being proved wrong, but basing opinions on 1 competitive game at home to QPR would be a tad silly. Like I said before the consensus on here was 18 points from 18 from your 1st 6 fixtures and a walkover in the league cup. Look how that's turned out. Top by Xmas and by the time the team gelled no1 would catch you.
Be better seeing how the team progresses for a wee while before making predictions but again that's just my opinion. I'm sure Sydney would testify to that after last year lol.

Jred are you seriously suggesting that you would pick RVP over Aguero?

There is massive focus on goal/assist stats, they only tell a small part of the story, players get assists for the ball coming off them unintentionally or playing the last pass for a goal where the scorer takes on 5 players and scores from 30 yards out after that so called assist - it's a joke. Gone are the days where a striker should be judged purely on goals, there are far too many other aspects of the game now that tactics play such a prominent part.

19 Sep 2014 16:09:35
Simon I am all for fun posts and banter but I have a feeling you genuinely just wrote a post saying that RVP, Rooney and Mata would not get in your team and it wasn't tongue in cheek.

I watched Liverpool the other night and genuinely I don't think any of the Liverpool players in that squad would get in our team now. Your best player is Sterling but we are stacked in his position. Last season I would have had 5 or 6 of your players and thought they would improve us.

Over the summer we have improved A LOT and as far as I can see Liverpool have improved some positions but are now lacking that X Factor that can win you games and titles (not that you won one).

My favourite part was 'Di Maria might'. You only think Di Maria 'might' get in your team, who exactly do you have that is better than him?

19 Sep 2014 16:12:58
Simon,

Find one post where any of the people on this thread said we would be top of the league by Christmas mate? There were a few people that said we would get 18 from 18 but most sensible people shot them down and realised we would take time to gel. I said I would be happy with 12 points from the first 18. If we win the next two (not guaranteed) we would have 11, so a bit behind where we would have liked, but the beginning of the season never really works like that.

19 Sep 2014 16:20:47
Simon,
If u honestly believe Mata, Rvp and Rooney would not get into your team you IMO are wrong, these 3 alone are far better than sturridge, coutinho and balotelli.

Beast
Strikers should be judged by goals.
This must be why you rate welbeck so highly .
Rvp is a top striker when we won the league he was right up there with the very best .
If rvp was in the city or chelsea team he would get games and goals imo.

Some people are very biased for there team Di Maria would still be in the Real Madrid starting eleven if Ancelloti had his way so as far as some people are going to say Willian and Navas are better neither could get in there very bad world cup squads di maria would of got to the final only for an injury and would of probably won it for them

GDS2 I never said anyone was better than him. He had an exceptional game against QPR at home, but it's only 1 game against a side you would expect him to have loads of space to play. Not every game will be like that.
It's my opinion and let's see how he does against better opposition.
I don't think it's too far fetched to reserve judgement on Falcao until he's actually had a few games in the premiership.
Van Persie and Rooney have been steadily declining in the last 12 months as your own supporters have been saying repetitively on here.
The other players you bought we don't need.
DeGea like I said may be an improvement but other than that I honestly wouldn't see anyone else getting into our 1st 11.

I am not one to quote SAF but it seems appropriate when a Liverpool fan can only see the attributes of their own players. "Sometimes you look in a field and you see a cow and you think it's a better cow than the one you've got in your own field. It's a fact. Right? And it never really works out that way."

Hilarious. Our forward line is considerably better than Liverpool's IMO. The stats alone would tell anyone that.

Goals/Assists win matches. Not sure how they tell a small part of the story. RvP is a top top striker, anyone thinking otherwise needs to give his/her head a wobble. Or may be we need to change the rules of the game and decide it based on maximum pace and power formula. Maximum number of falling on your arse instances and you win the game.

Deeps.

But not as mutch as your team as since last season everton look a better side than you lot so far this season

19 Sep 2014 17:09:06
simon, Its just my opinion I don't expect you to agree, but my opinion is not based on 1 result, I understand you are desperate for falcao to fail but I can't see it as his quality and record stands up against anybodys . if you think di maria only might get into your team your just plain ignorant, pool have no world class players 1 with the potential to be world class. Nobody I think with the exception of gerrard and balotelli and Moreno have ever won a football major honour inc your manager so i'm sure they will all fail together again this season. In order to improve this season you need to finish 1st in the league so its another season of disimprovement in store for you but if you watch our team as often as you visit us here you will see some good stuff. I remember the days when your club used to be successful it shows how far you have fallen when you are satisfied with nearly winning something

Ken you might want to get your facts straight by the way. Toure, Manquillo, Sturridge, Marcovic, Johnson have all won major honours but it's not about that. It's the usual mentality on here because you had 1 good result against QPR that all of a sudden your world beaters. You wonder why other fans give you stick. I gave my opinion too, I didn't say you were wrong or I was right. Every fan will have a difference of opinion. I have watched your team and apart from 1 result against QPR it's a long time since I have been impressed. I'm sure last season and up till now, there can't have been many you were impressed with either.

What is that apart from Toure and Gerrard simon how many of the other 4 players were a mainstray in the teams they won with none

Although pre season is not really a great indicator we won all our games and brushed liverpool aside with ease since then we have signed di maria falcao blind and rojo. Ye sliverpool have made signings as well but in my opinion not of the same quality! So I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens as I think it is unpredictable what will happen with both teams

Mata's beard,
you lot had a team of champions last year and it made no difference so nit picking on individuals experience is irrelevant. There are many winners medals handed out to players who have had little impact on the matchday team. It's a squad game nowadays.
I was merely showing Ken that there were others in the squad that had won things is all. I'm enjoying the banter, I don't want Falcao to fail I would just like to give my opinion on him later when I've seen him perform regularly against better opposition.
Di Maria has started well but again I would like to see how he does against the better teams.

Hi guys long time reader first time poster, before I get onto my post I'd like to thank the Eds for the work they put in to maintaining the site, this is jusy a reply to simons previous post I'm United through and through and so obviously whatever I say may come across as bias however I think you are completely wrong to say hardly any of our players would get into your side and I'm quite sure that none of the United fans have based their opinion on one game yes United have come from having a bad season but it's harsh to say hardly any of our players would get into your squad, we will be back, remember form is temporary class is permanent.

19 Sep 2014 22:34:29
Simon,

Di maria hasn't played one match in his career you know that don't you? He has been a top player for Real Madrid and got man of the match in last years champions league final, not just one good performance against QPR. We signed him because he stands up to be counted in big games, something we missed last year.

You sound like you are clutching at straws, and clicking disagree so many times on my posts is embarrassing and petty, or if it's not you it shows how many Liverpool fans are obsessed with our site.

Simon,

You are saying we're getting excited over 1 good game? Isn't that what your doing after 1 good season? This is what gets me, Liverpool are now great again because they came runner up once, yet United are finished because we missed out on the champions league for the first time in decades? Liverpool fans saying we will finish mid table, Liverpool fans saying there a cert for top 3 no problem? You are setting your expectations too high and it's going to bite u on your backside.
Just remember you have lost 50% of your games already and aside from Tottenham, u have struggled in every one, so maybe start worrying about your own team rather than being obsessed with ours

Looking at the agree/disagree ratio on this page, one of two possibilities could exist
1) the utd supporters have not only taken off the red tinted specs but have replaced them with specs of the color of abu.
2)the number of Liverpool fans on this page is too high.

It makes me laugh, I get 18 or so disagreed on my one point. I then elaborate slightly on that point further down and I get mainly agrees? The exact same point is being made, just persons clicking things at random it seems.

It's a shame as I used to use the Agree/Disagree option as a good indicator of where our fans views were, now it is just abused and misleads people if they bother to pay attention to it.

20 Sep 2014 11:06:44
imightbesomeone,

Opposition fans I assume. You have to wonder at the mentality of someone refreshing the page and hitting disagree as their best means of winning a debate.

Seriously anyone who thinks Di Maria "might" get in the Liverpool team is either on a wind up or "a little bit biased" - don't bite.

19 Sep 2014 11:13:06
Ronaldo is a popinjay who will exploit the media to ensure his name is in the forefront. Thus when di Maria moves to United, it becomes all about Ronaldo. His expressed affection for United is an affectation calculated to keep Brand Ronaldo in the news. Ronaldo is committed to one thing and one thing alone, and that's himself.

He is a great footballer but, honestly, I've never liked him as a personality and I just don't think it would be the right move for United to take him back. The money would be ridiculous for someone of his age, and there would be a serious risk of a falling out when he returns to a club that is no longer the one he played for. It would be like going back to an old boyfriend or girlfriend - how often does that work out?

Ronaldo would make a major difference to any team in the world and will do for the next 4 to 5 years. My concern would be his left knee which gave him trouble at the World Cup and before any transfer would expect a stringent examination. Is he worth a large fee? Well he is the level of player that over the next 4 years could deliver his team 1 or 2 Champions league trophies as long as he remains fit.
There is also the question that if he left Madrid where would he go if not to us? At Chelsea or City he could give them the boost to dominate for 4 years, so for me there is an element of risk in not buying him. That level of player is one that even at the age is worth looking at because the best player in the world in your team and one who has such affinity to United is not only good for the team but makes us even more attractive for other top players to arrive.
The money side is something to consider but after our splurge in summer and likely next year I have a feeling the owners may look at the naming rights to OT which could bring in massive money, we shall see. Certainly seeing it spent on players would mean less anger than at other times. Regardless of that I would buy Ronaldo next summer because it would take us to another level.

What this window showed is that Van Gaal will buy who he wants not necessarily what the fans want. This is a good philosophy as we as fans get emotive about these things rather than always thinking rationally. The potential purchase of Ronaldo could be very similar.
However, if it is an option that Van Gaal wants to look at then the following should be considered for us fans:

1.Cost - £60/70m for a 29/30 year old sounds astronomical and is. However when you consider that he is potentially the most marketable player at the moment this fee could be re-couped in the first year merely by shirt sales. When you consider our fanbase is apparently 600 odd million it is easy to see how at least a million Ronaldo shirts could be sold worldwide in the first season and therefore paying off the fee. His wages are then the only other consideration which could be another £60m. this will be offset by hopefully champions league football and success in the premiership, alongside increased marketing potential and the Addidas deal.
I would then argue that cost is nothing for us to worry about and would not stop us signing elsewhere.
2.Age - He is not your normal 29/30 year old. He is fit, his pace is holding and he has looked after himself well. I would be comfortable that at the end of the 4 years he would still be playing to a high standard and be in the first team on merit. We would not be looking to sell on for profit as his £60m purchase price will be offset in the books so there will be no effective loss.
3.Knee injuries - this is a concern however I don't see us getting him this Jan so we will have had a chance to assess him for a full season. If not problems with it then it will be not an issue come next summer.
4.Dressing room upset - Yes he is all about himself, however he also understands that the team is important (look at how he campaigned for Di Marea to stay at RM). So on that basis he would be happy to team up with him again. I think as well we would be getting a much more grounded Ronaldo who is looking to enjoy himself at a club whose fans adore him. I think happiness and love is what he now craves and with that success will follow for him.

Should we do it, I don't know is the answer. However of all of the negatives that I hear fans throwing about not one of them on there own would make me not do it. For me it is all about Van Gaal and does he see him in the structure he wants to play.

{Ed002's Note - (1) You don't understand about where the money from shirt sales goes. The costs of spending on players are of significance for FFP - and Manchester United are already over the limit. (2) Ronaldo is not any sort of super human. He is a footballer who is in decent physical shape. He is certainly thinking to his future. (3) You are making this stuff up now. (4) Who cares - it is no sort of big deal.}

I agree with Peashooter and have said as much previously. I certainly don't think he will be anywhere near as effective for the next 4 years.

I also don't buy into any of this love for Man Utd rubbish, he loves himself and he needs to feel loved. For some reason many of our fans are prepared to believe this tripe and carry some sort of torch for him.

He left us for his best years: to carry on with Peashooters analogy about not going back to ex-girlfriends, it is kind of worse because we went out with the girl when she was a spotty teen about to blossom, she then got a boob job, learns to be a masseuse, swatted up on how to pleasure your man (all on your dime), but decides to leave just as you are starting to enjoy yourself. She re-writes the Kama Sutra with her new guy making damn sure you know about it, all the while throwing flirtatious glances back at you when she occasionally feels lonely because her new guy isn't buying her everything she wants and maybe has their eyes on a newer toy to play with. Finally she decides she has had enough of putting on make up everyday and making an effort she expects special treatment just because she is who she is, so she decides to have one last push with her current guy for marriage, if it fails then she knows that the jealous ex will have her back despite her developing a destructive spending habit and demanding the finer things no matter what. We will take her back despite there being a strong chance that after the honeymoon period is over it could ruin the nice little life you have been building whilst she has been living the high life elsewhere. We will be total MUGS if we do this, principle has to count for something guys!

Football wise.

Players like Ronaldo who rely heavily on pace decline a lot quicker than other types of players. Yes he is technically brilliant but a lot of that is to do with how quickly he can move the ball with his feet, travel with it and change direction. Pace is so vital to Ronaldo's game and as he picks up knocks he will struggle to recover and degrade a lot quicker than other players who don't rely on pace as much.

Buying Ronaldo would make sense sponsorship wise and for one maybe two seasons he would improve the team markedly, but we will be lumbered with him for 4-5 years (maybe more). Those extra 2-3 years are a massive issue, he will be commanding huge wages and potentially weakening our team if he is playing post 31-32. People say he will move central as his pace goes, but there will be better players who have played centrally all their careers. Look how Giggs inhibited our signing that much needed CM for so long (nothing against Giggs), Ronaldo would be on 10X more money and would have to play, so we delay and suffer again.

I know he keeps in shape, but that will have taken its toll competing to the standards he has over the past 10 years, his body has been put through the mill and when it breaks down it will be so difficult for him to recover. Despite his efforts to convince otherwise, he is not super human.

If we offer him a 2 year contract his "love for Man Utd" should mean he accepts it. He will demand 5 years at least guaranteed, so his love for the club means Jack.

19 Sep 2014 15:05:11
I don't get why Ronaldo has manipulated the press here??

So Di'Maria joins UTD and Di'Maria says Ronaldo told me about the history of this shirt and its importance to the club its a great club. then reporter goes to Ronaldo and confirms what he said to Di'Maria and Ronaldo declares how much he loves the club and would love to come back one day.

Makes no sense to me that Ronaldo is after the limelight if Di'Maria mentioned it initially. And if Ronaldo says he wants to come back it should be taken as compliment.

19 Sep 2014 17:00:10
Ed002, you are right on many things but you are wrong on this for once, United are nowhere near being over budget in terms of FFP, continued failure to get into Europe would put them at risk but nobody can accurately predict this!

{Ed002's Note - Would you like to explain how Manchester United are not well over the FFP regulations in respect of the increase in wages?}

19 Sep 2014 22:03:30
For me one of the main attractions to signing Ronaldo in the next 6/12months before his star starts to wane is he would attract players. People want to play with the best. Also once he hangs up his boots is he the type of high profile ambassador we need. Could he act in a similar role to zidane at Real Madrid?

He is all about brand ronaldo, but he is also an excellent example to younger players about the benefits of hard work. His ego and profile might be worth as much to Utd as his footballing skills.

19 Sep 2014 17:11:57
Thanks Ed002 for your much more informed opinion.if as ever very blunt (which I am happy with). On the Ffp front I was of the opinion that purchases would be effected by income and not just player sales. Therefore shirt sales would allow for big purchases. after all this is the RM model for years.
The reference to his knee was following the earlier message and my view on it.
Also, no one is implying he is super human, however some players will play at a higher standard than others and for a longer period. sure it is of notwithstanding he takes better care of himself than a lot of others and injury permitting will be able to.play for longer.just my opinion. even if a little I'll informed!!

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea why you think there is a relationship between the purchases and player sales - I have certainly not told you that. Where do you think the money from shirt sales goes? If you go out to your local sporting store today and buy a MUFC shirt for £50, how much of that do you think goes to Manchester United?}

19 Sep 2014 18:02:20
Ed002, I don't know what everyone makes but I presume you are concerned with the FA rather than UEFA's FFP. Take out the salaries of Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Welbeck, Cleverley, Buttner, Nani(?), Bebe, Zaha andKagawa - how much are we saving? Add back di Maria, Blind, Rojo, Falcao, Herrera, Shaw - how much is it costing? As I understand it (probably incompletely) we can increase payroll by 4m + the increase in commercial revenues year on year. Wasn't that about 30m between 2013 and 2014?

I would not be at all surprised if FFP was one of the motivations for selling both Kagawa and Welbeck. But that being said it looks like it balances out pretty well.

{Ed002's Note - The costs of player's wages submitted for this year by Manchester United are in excess of that allowed by UEFA's FFP. WE have previously dealt with this in a conversation with Syd.}

19 Sep 2014 20:16:17
Twitter says so ed lol ;)