Manchester United Banter Archive October 01 2012

01 Oct 2012 22:50:10
We need to adopt new tactics and a new formation..fast!
4-2-3-1 wont work for us because we dont play with 2 defensive midfielders. We need to play either a 4-4-2 diamond midfield or 4-3-3 dependant on the opposition.

4-3-3
-----------de gea------------
------ferdinand--evans------
-rafael------------------evra--
-----------anderson------------
------rooney---cleverley------
--valencia--van persie--kagawa

4-4-2 diamond

----------de gea-----------
-----ferdinand--evans-----
-valencia--------------buttner
-----------Carrick/Fletchee

02 Oct 2012 10:31:52
And where exactly does the Referee fit into this system?
Robbie

01 Oct 2012 22:38:10
This is a point that's been bothering me. Who do you think is the superior player at the moment, Powell or Petrucci? For me it's Petrucci in every aspect. So why is he not getting time on the field, unlike Powell?

Percy

Powell is better.

G.A.G.U.S

His passing is inferior. His vision isn't as good, his creativity isn't anywhere near Petrucci's level, Petrucci is also stronger, whilst being a similar speed. The only thing Powell has on Petrucci is his shooting, and only just.

Percy

Percy powell is taller and has a bigger frame than petrucci
johndenton

In terms of short passes, long passes, sliding tackles, aeriel duels, physical presence, vision, creativity, on the ball ability, positioning, dribbling, finishing, well every aspect of a midfielder's game, petrucci is better. As for long range shots, they're kind of equal. But Powell is :
1- english, and we all know what that means.
2- came with a 4 million price tag on his head.
Thats why powell will get more games than petrucci in the first team. Sad but true.

Mick

01 Oct 2012 21:40:00
What a terrible, terrible, terrible terrible terrible team you are. If RVP gets injured you will struggle to get into the CL.

Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96
--------------
But Blair, we were a 'terrible, terrible team' last year too and we finished over 35 points ahead of you lot. You're down in 14th and we're second, but you still call us a terrible terrible team. What's the reason we finished nearly 40 points ahead of Liverpool last year?

G.A.G.U.S

Give it a rest GUGAS. All you Mancs talk about is history. Our future is looking bright with our fantastic youth set up and the kids that have already made in into the 1st team. Look to the future mate or are you afraid to?

Do you, Disney and the rest of you fickle Mancs still think you've got the best youth talent in the PL?

Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96

Agree G.A.G.U.S (We are 3rd by the way) Blair look Liverpool have a lot of work to do to even reach champions league football. Now act more mature and stop posting such rubbish on this page, go worry about your own team please, you have no respect over here and are unwanted.

-JakeW

Blur, what have Jonjo, Spearing, Skyrtel & Ad*m got in common?...HEY YOU GUYS!!!!...CHUNK!
For those of you who were around in the 80's!
Lot's of strange disagree's on here this evening, some mid to lower table trolls on here me thinks.

Supasub

Bliar

I do believe we have the best youth in the PL. Daehli, Januzaj, Henriquez, Powell, Pereira, Petrucci, Wilson etc.

And to say we only talk about history is rich coming from a Liverpool fan.

G.A.G.U.S

Why do you lot respond to criticism by attacking another team? Manu are pretty terrible at the moment regardless of how other teams are performing.

Sterling (17), Sinclair (16) Suso (19) Robinson (18) Wisdom (20) have all played for the 1st team already GUGAS mate. Next will be Sama, Ngoo, MaGlaughlin, and remember this name 'Jordan Ibe' watch this kid he looks very good.


Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96

GAGUS quit being bias Liverpool have Wisdom , Suso , Sterling , Morgan , Yesil , Robinson , Sama pretty much all breaking into the first team now with another lot of amazing talent coming through the u18's , you lot said Morrison and Pogba would break in your team but where are they now.

Liverpool are on the rise and United are on the downfall if Fergie doesn't retire this season.

Tom.

It's hardly going to be difficult breaking into the Liverpool side now is it?

Wafer thin squad and very few good players. Liverpool are now a mid-table club.

Sydney!

01 Oct 2012 21:21:16
Cleverley is the worst player i have ever seen at United.

Bebe? .

My mind hurts after reading something so mind boggling stupid. I think my IQ dropped a few points when I read those words. Thanks.

Percy

You've so many to chose from mate its close. But he is overrated and.Shelvey is twice the player he is, as is Suso.

Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96

You are obviously a scouser if you havent seen worse than him

Pardoe

LOL

APC

Shelvey & Suso! Never had you down as experimenting with mind bending drugs blur? Is Spearing the new zidane?

Supasub

Blair remember el Zar and le tallec couple of real gems them

Frodo kippe, Sean Dundee, Sinama pongole, Erik meijer, Bernard diomede.....the list of utter rubbishe is endless.

Supasub

01 Oct 2012 20:03:04
This page has a tone strikingly similar to King Kenny's recent reign; The man taking the criticism is a living legend yet seen by many as out of touch, wasteful of resources and giving the dressing room to the legendary players.

Young players looking for glory will and do join United for the rich history and for a chance to play alongside their idols. Idols leave the Chelseas and Citys for green(back) pastures.

Like the young Beckhams, Rooneys, Giggs, Scholes there will be another golden generation in time. Your club and mine are not so different.

The Liverpool supporter in me knows United is one of the two best teams in the top flight. I wish Pool better than you during your greatest successes - not the failures.

When the Sikhs and Oligarchs have left their toys discarded the two strongest clubs will still be battling to be champion from the fray.

- Logic

I really do hope so, Liverpool fans like you I don't mind because you see where our club is and yours is, then you get Tos**rs like Blair who just speaks a lot of crap. As I have said the two biggest English clubs will be competing for the league against each other.

-JakeW

Sheikh Mansour is going nowhere. And all the people of Manchester should he happy about this. The money he is putting in the surrounding area is a special thing. Considering how bad things are economical around the world.

You never know, RFT might get a job.because of Sheikh Mansour. Oh the irony.....lol

Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96

01 Oct 2012 19:17:04
first start for Heniquez tonight for the reserves against Sunderland

Vimto

01 Oct 2012 19:08:54
Some people don't seem to realise that Cleverley is a very average player when played in CM and seem to want to play him next to Carrick or Scholes in formations, for example...

--------Carrick------Cleverley-------
Nani----------Kagawa------Rooney--
----------------RVP-------------------
(just an example not a team selection i would want)

This totally stunts his best asset which is finding pockets of space and creating triangles with other players (for neat little one two's etc.) as he has to stay rigid and generally in line with the other CM as that is what he is being told to do.

But if you tell Carrick or Fletcher to play DM then you can play him further forward this will mean we'll see the best from him, Anderson AND also Kagawa who in my opinion atm does not suit our current formation. The interchangeable fluidity would make marking us almost impossible and we'd be able to keep possession.

--------------Carrick--------------
------Cleverley----Anderson-----
--Rooney------RVP-----Kagawa--

So basically just trying to convince some people that playing two CM's is a bad idea, it's not necessarily the squad that's the problem, it can be improved (buy a DM as we've only got Fletch imo) but we still have the players to challenge most if not all the teams in the world BUT only if we play them in the right formation.

Red Joe

01 Oct 2012 18:35:08
There seems to be a lot of interesting debate surrounding our poor start to the season, and poor form that has persisted throughout the last 12 months. There are the obvious failings to sign midfielders and replacements for Evra and Nani. But I think what is becoming more and more apparent is that there is something not right at OT. Last season we started with a youthful team full of purpose and a will to win. Now, no rose tinted glasses here, our best performances came at the expense of a terrible Bolton side, Arsenal and Spurs teams that were seriously lacking in talent. But what shouldn't be disregarded is that Fergie was willing to trust in youth and attacking football, the two pillars that define his tenure at the club. Injuries had a part, but as the season progressed we saw Fergie moving away from this philosophy. Ultimately if we ever had a big game Fergie dropped the youth and put all his faith into his trusted players, Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand, Evra, Carrick and even Park.

This season has, if anything, been the reverse of last year. Fergie has become increasingly entrenched in the idea that his experienced players can do the job. 1995-96 brought us Fergie's Fledglings, this season we have Fergie's Fogies: a group of players over the age of 30 who are mainstays in the first team regardless of the quality of their performances. Let's be honest Giggs isn't good enough to compete at the top level any more, neither is Evra, Ferdinand is hanging on by a thread, and as good as Scholes is, he is the number one barrier to Cleverly's development. We cannot escape the simple fact that Fergie has adopted a radically different attitude to young players, and this signals a lack of trust in their ability. Added to this is a clear ineptitude in Fergie's tactical decisions, primarily playing two attacking full backs without a midfielder capable of covering for them.

Ed001 raised a very interesting point about coaching. If we think about the youth players who have come through the club in the last few seasons, how many have improved at the rate they should have? Anderson's first two seasons were his best, why has he declined so much? Rafael and Fabio's development has been painfully slow, neither of them are able to use their aggression proactively, and their positioning is still suspect. Cleverly is relegated to the bench during his most important year. Smalling, again his first season was his best, same with Hernandez. Jones ended the season playing worse than he started it because he was used out of position so often. And Welbeck's shooting or heading hasn't improved one notch. I think we may have to add De Gea to this list because Fergie has built up the lad's confidence by dropping him every time he makes a mistake.

There is something majorly wrong at the club, you can see it in the team selections, the attitudes on the pitch and most importantly the performances on the pitch. No Manchester United fan wants to see Fergie booted out the door, it would be a disgrace to his passion and his legacy. But by the same token, nobody is bigger than the club. Fergie's refusal to improve our midfield seems to be guided by tight purse strings and a refusal to admit that he was wrong about our midfield being good enough. Since about 2000 Fergie has realised that the game has changed and requires a level of tactical proficiency that he doesn't have. But he realised this and brought in assistants who were capable of helping him by challenging his ideas and tactics. For the last few years Fergie has persisted with a man who lacks any visible tactical skill, but will back Fergie no matter what. Fergie seems to be valuing loyalty over all else, sticking with his trusted Fogies and diligent yes man. If Fergie is not capable of bringing the club forward into a new era then that's fine, he has done enough to earn our eternal respect. But if he can't bring us forward he needs to step down because the trajectory the club is on is a direct result of his decisions and staffing choices. He can turn this around if he puts his trust in the right players and the right coaching staff, but unless he does this he is placing his ego over the interests of the club.

Danny Pughnited

Very well stated, I agree with everything you see. I hope he steps down, that would be the best way to move on.

01 Oct 2012 19:03:28
The entire backroom needs a total overhaul once Fergie leaves.

The new guy will hopefully sack the lot of them and employ some coaches who know how to coach.

One of the best, most sensible posts for a long, long time. I've said before that, as unpalatable it is for some, SAF should either step down (best option) or David Gill should have the conversation he's prolly dreading!
RedSince68

That has got to go down as one of the most well presented and sensible posts on here for a long time no ranting and raving just a true reflection of what we can all see and what if were honest is the only answer to our current problems
Onecut

01 Oct 2012 19:50:29
As Red Man said the other day its turning into a Brian Clough style he's stayed on too long and doesn't have a capable number 2 situation.

I do firmly believe the end is in sight.

He has the samer red nose as cloughie too......interesting comparison

Danny Pughnited. Do you really think sir Alex Would put his ego before Manchester United? Shame on you.
Djay

Djay, one question, Why have we not signed a central midfield player with genuine physical presence in the last three summers when it's clear to every man, his dog and his dog's fleas that we're crying out for one? Money has been available, but it has gone elsewhere. The only real explanation is that Fergie is unwilling to prove the critics right.

There is a major difference between respecting Fergie and everything he has done for the club, and absolving him of all responsibility for the poor tactical decisions, inadequate coaching staff, and poor performances that have become commonplace during the last year.

Danny Pughnited

Anderson, cleverly, carrick, Scholes, Powell, fletcher , kagawa. If a quality midfielder was added it would be a bonus but the doom and gloom on this site is a joke.
I think if Anderson and cleverly were 100 percent fit they would be the main 2 central midfielders with carrick and fletcher being the 2 more defensive midfielders. Then scholes to come of the bench to control the tempo of games and Powell to come on for experience in games when we have a nice lead. I'm sure fergie was after a midfielder but the quality of player he wanted to replace scholes wasn't available this summer. Got to give the great man more respect were sounding like Liverpool and city fans.
Djay

01 Oct 2012 17:23:51
Paul Scholes has been left behind because "he wasn't feeling great this morning". "He played so well on Saturday and at 37 I can't expect him to play three days later."

Even the great Fergie contradicts himself. Guess that's why he played him 3 times in a week not too long ago. Apparently Giggs, and Carrick both have a virus hmm maybe he has confused this with getting old. I am really surprised that he hasn't noticed that Evra is showing the same signs of this "sickness" and could well be patient zero.

I hope the young guns get picked and blow Cluj to pieces so he really has to have a think over his recent and future team selections. Actually looking forward to the team sheet as I know for sure there will be no Giggs, Carrick, or Scholes. Maybe he will pull a fast one and play Nani and Welbeck in the midfield lol.

Darren-Bermuda

Or maybe they're just sick...

Red Joe

01 Oct 2012 18:55:15
Do you not think its a coincidence not none of them have travelled and he's peddling this virus line, now thats old school fergie bs for he's dropped them.

01 Oct 2012 17:11:49
Mourinho rules out managing Man Utd and hopes to face Ferguson when he returns to the premiership my guess will be City or Chelsea he also mentioned how he has a perfect relation with abramovich Man City and Chelsea under Mourinho is very dangerous for us.

I think Mark Hughes will be available soon

Puzzled

His comments don't mention that he has ruled us out. It states that he just wishes SAF is still there when he comes. IMO another show of respect for SAF from Mou.

Devil for Life

Your midfield is even more dangerous.

That will just be games to throw everyone off!

I hope haha.

Jono

01 Oct 2012 18:56:53
Typical Jose, i'd get your money on him being United manager next season if he's saying that, sounds like usual Mourinho misdirection.

And where did he rule out us? "Fergie is the boss of boss's"
He refers to SAF as manager and himself as a coach. Not saying that's their future roles but he could be suggesting that Mourinho is manager/coach with SAF still at the club, upstairs maybe.

Supasub

He told CNN: "The perfect scenario when I go there is to coach, because I think football will lose a lot when he stops and there are not young managers and old managers. Etc.....

For me I like the bit "when I go there"....
An I looking into it wrongly, what you think...

BowlDonBowl

01 Oct 2012 22:31:32
He would only come to Utd if he had loads of money to spend. The Glaziers would be looking for a yes man who could work on a limited budget....Moyes would suit them fine.

01 Oct 2012 17:08:19
Ok guys time to see what everyone thinks. Scores for CL and Newcastle game. My prediction.

2-1 in champions league(us winning)
2-1 at Newcastle(us losing)

3-0 to us in the Champions league and 3-1 to us against Newcastle, I have a feeling Fergie may now change the teams around a bit in the league, may as well hope!

-JakeW

01 Oct 2012 16:28:30
Does anyone else think that leaving Scholes, Giggs and Carrick out of tomorrows teams means they will be part of the squad on the weekend against Newcastle?

James

Unfortunately

Mad Hatter

Im hoping that cleverley anderson etc have a blinder and that perhaps fergie realises that with all three in the midfield means we dont have enough pace or legs but I am probably going to be disappointed. Bookedredmole

Hope so.

01 Oct 2012 16:22:08
Liverpool fan in peace. Came on here the other day to see what you guys thought of the Tottenham game and I'm not gonna lie, I was surprised! Seems a fair few have lost patience with Fergie. Sure, I hate the man, but there's no question he's one if not the greatest manager to ever live. If anyone can compete with the ridiculous funds of citeh and chelski it's him. We won't be near the league title this year, but I hope to God either yourselves or Arsenal grab it, can't stand seeing Russian or Arab playthings winning the title. If that means you get 20 or however many titles, I don't mind, just means we'll have to win a more to get back on top ;) Liverpool and United will always be massive clubs, so keep the faith with Fergie! When fair play rules come in, Citeh and the Chavs can go back to where they belong
JFT96.

Liverpool and United are the two true best English clubs, It disgusts me seeing City and Chelsea spend 100millions a year.

-JakeW

The only problem with your comment JakeW
is that these two teams are American owned
- nowt wrong with that per se - but !

Puzzled

Jake, who do you think funded Liverpool's buys? FSG, the only difference is FSG won't invest as much as City and Chelsea's owners will.

Sydney!

English? The majority of players are foreigners!
RedSince68

I mean the two best English clubs in history, you have all read that totally wrong. I meant back when It was Liverpool and United competing for the title.

-JakeW

01 Oct 2012 15:02:52
Hey! Great performance on Saturday. It looks like all of that potential is starting to really come through. Lots of young, skillfull and hungry players making an impression. The future's looking good ..I..oh...sorry I thought this was the Liverpool page.

Haha nice one mate.

1 win against norwich and your youngsters are going to be world beaters,lets see if rodgers holds his nerve and plays them against the big boys,its all great at the moment but if you get a tanking with your youngsters in the side,hows that going to do their confidence?

phil

Phil,you have to admit they are playing better than utd these days,they were footballing utd of the park at times kills me to say it! & nani & evra were ineffective and as for scholes giggs & carrick great players in their day ( not carrick average at best!) but it looks like last of the summer wine when they're on the pitch!!
Ralph milne's left leg

01 Oct 2012 13:35:41
pep guardiola and carlos would be a good combination to replace fergie..

Agree. And can they start NOW. As saf and phelan need to retire. Please.
NoMidfield

Both should go now!
Charlton's combover

Little and Large would be a better choice!

01 Oct 2012 12:57:45
just finished reading all of the comments below, and I really think most people who post here are watching a different game to the rest of us.
there really are 2 things that need to be changed for us to win the league.

1. Anderson and Cleverly - these 2 have bags of energy and potential, and with more games, will become better. Who remembers last season before they got injured? 8-2 against arsenal, 3-0 against spurs and 3-1 against chelsea. Clevz and Anderson played in all 3 of those games before getting injured.
2.Giggs is past it. He is still a useful squad member, and can do a job to settle a team when we are up 2-0 with 30 minutes to go. At a push, i would start him against the likes of Wigan, Norwich and Southampton, but to start him against Spurs, is just ridiculous.

furthermore, Rooney should be starting every game possible. Him and RVP WILL form a great partnership, but they need as much game time as possible together. I know Wazza only just came back from that "nasty gash" , but a 90% fit Rooney would get into every team in the world - he is world class and should be in the team whenever possible.
p.s. buttner over Evra, from the little I have seen him play so far, he should be given a few starts!

01 Oct 2012 12:21:05
Interesting to see Mikael Silvestre training with the squad, the most likely reason is he is just keeping fit till he finds a new club but it comes at a time when we are having too many injuries in defence. It will most likely not happen but is Fergie having him on trial with a possibility of pulling off a similar coup to Henrik Larsson, provided experience and a threat in times of need and Fergie always rated Silvestre very highly, even if he isn't in the team to play just to be there in case Ferdinand or Evans gets injured

RedKnight

01 Oct 2012 11:58:11
Players to get more game time:-
1 Cleverley
2 Anderson
3 Buttner
4 De Gea
5 Powell
6 Tunnicliffe
7 Petrucci
8 Fletcher (if fit)
9 Wootton
10 M Keane

Players to get less game time and be phased out:-
1 Giggs (too old, too slow, too anonymous)
2 Evra (not good enough, can't defend)
3 Rio (too old, too slow, too injury prone)
4 Carrick (too slow)
5 Nani (great ability but too inconsistent and poor decision maker. Appears unable to make the most of his undoubted talent)
6 Scholes (still incredible player, but bench role only now barring injury crisis)

Also new management required asap - removing the old guard seems too difficult/ painful for Fergie but its clearly now time for change.
PerthDave

Its obvious they are going to get more playing time with most of the latter coming to the end of their careers.

01 Oct 2012 11:27:56
Just a couple of points firstly when bale is in full flight most cb would of struggled, ferdy seems to be getting a bit of stick but bale had so much space it was un real. Secondly all of a sudden young clevs anderson buttner seem to be the answear to our problems. Well are them 4 really that good will they really make us that much better. The problem is people continue to build players up far to much we are a good team but not great people are expecting to much from this squad. Jred

They are not necessarily the answer, but they are an alternative and an option worth taking. I would play Buttner & Young ahead of Evra & Nani all day long. I would also play Cleverley & Anderson ahead of Scholes & Giggs.

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - I was talking about Rio yesterday with Ed004, I never thought I would say it, but I feel sorry for him. First off, there is no protection from the midfield, Spurs could just run past them at will, straight at the defence. Evans was trying to cover Evra, so his positioning was off constantly, Rio was trying to cope with that, his own position and covering Rafael, who baffles me. Ed004 can see no wrong with Rafael, but he is constantly posted missing, he has not just failed to improve, he has gone backwards since breaking into the team. He is good going forward, but he doesn't communicate enough with the defenders, he seems to forget he is part of a back four. Coaching seems to be the issue for me, players like Welbeck, Macheda, Campbell, Nani etc, they get in the team and go nowhere. It reminds me of Liverpool under Houllier, bought some fantastic young prospects and then failed to improve a single one of them. That seems to be happening at United now. I have to ask, why is Phelan still number 2? Only it seems clear to me that all these problems stem from him.}

01 Oct 2012 12:13:34
JRed - I don't agree that people expecting too much of Cleverley, Anderson and Buttner. If they don't play, they will not develop and the team will stagnate. On the evidence so far in the last 2 seasons they have shown glimpses of what they can offer. The midfield containing Clevz and Ando helped beat Arsenal 8-2 and Spurs 3-0 last season and the play from midfield was fantastic - fast pass and move, the opposition couldn't live with us. Buttner was man of the match on his debut. Rough and ready my backside, he was fantastic ! I cannot see any merit in leaving these guys on the bench when the old guard are being overrun. I believe that all 3 will deliver much more than say Giggs, Carrick and Evra. That's my opinion and it appears to be shared by the vast majority on this site. I think if you'd exchanged the 3 players I suggest with the 3 that played, we'd have beaten Spurs with or without Wazza. The fact we didn't raises alarm bells with the judgement of the existing management.
PerthDave

The problem is the EMPIRE IS CRUMBLING.

Syd
And would that make us good enough. Buttner for me is very much one for the future but to be fair his played 1 and half games so maybe I bit early to have an opinion either way. Butts will prob do better than evra but I would think his still a bit away from the top level at the moment. It makes me laught that ando has got loads of stick the past few month then has 1 good game and everyone thinks his the answear.
Young is the same , he got loads of stick on here last year.
Nani is the other way round you argued with me this time last year that he was wc and talk of him leaving was just contract issues.

Maybe your team would be better than fergys but would it be good enough imo no

Perthdave
I'm not sure we would of beaten spurs with them 3 players , a fully fit rooney would of made a bigger impact but we will never know

Also edd001 makes a good point with ferdy people on here are far to quick to jump on players back with out seeing the bigger picture. Jred

Ed001, the presence of a defensive midfielder would help to counter a lot of these problems, by both falling back into a center-back position if Ferdinand or Evans are brought out towards the full-back positions, and by filling the massive hole in the center of midfield preventing the opposition streaming forwards.
Regarding the young players not reaching their potentials; its very hard when they don't have the best players around them. For example, when Giggs arrived on the scene look at the players he had around him. Irwin behind him, Hughes/Cantona in front of him and Ince/Keane beside him. I really feel sorry for Macheda, he was not given enough time to settle in and prove himself, and I fear his opportunity is now gone.
Regarding Phelan; who employed Phelan into this position, and who keeps Phelan in this position?

J Bones. {Ed001's Note - I fully agree, midfield protection is desperately needed, I am shocked by how easily teams just waltz through the middle of United these days. I don't think the quality of the players around youngsters matters as much as the quality of the coaching they receive. They should still improve and play better as they move into their 20s, no matter who plays alongside them. As for Phelan, that can only be one man surely?}

Sorry Ed001, was a bit busy. I agree that it's like Rio and Evans playing as the back four at times. If we had a solid midfield we could afford to let the fullbacks get forward willy nilly, but we cannot have a non-existent midfield and have fullbacks committing forward.

Sydney!

Jred, sometimes I do wonder what drugs you are taking. A year ago I was telling YOU that the club were trying to offload Nani and you weren't having none of it. There were contractual issues a couple of year's ago and Nani has wanted a raise ever since. But the club have been looking to offload him for two seasons now and I have been saying as much, something you disagreed with me on this time last year.

In respect to the Buttner thing, I have watched him play twice for the seniors and once in the U21's and he was better than Evra has been for over two years in all three of them games. Whether he is the long-term answer or not is unknown, but he is better than Ev now and unless Buttner is played we will not know how good he can be.

Sydney!

Here's a question. Why are we discussing the same problem when it's been 3 years or more now? These are the exact same rants and ramblings that adorned this board 1-2yrs ago.

-Why can every single United fan see the problem but not SAF?

-Why only bid £5million for a player as essenti

Here's a thought. Why are we repeating ourselves?

Why has SAF refused to strenghten a position we've identified (every United fan, that being) as a potentially lethal shortcoming?

Why only bid £5million for Dembele, an essential player for a team like ours, and not even bother fighting to get him after he destroyed our midfield?

Why suggest we've got talented youth as a reason we aren't buying, then not play the talented youth?

Just wait, all the posters will be on here soon saying "summer is a vital transition period for us".

Really? Wasn't that the case this summer? And the one before that?

Something is very weird at OT right now. I can't help but think that a complete clean slate is needed.

RED_SKY

Syd
Last year I said nani may leave and you argued that it was just the club playing hard ball over the contract that he was wc and wouldn't leave
Jred

RED_SKY, very true and I agree with you. But as you can see we have had plenty of funds to buy a midfielder yet the manager has chosen not to, I have been saying for many moons that it's all down to the manager's stubbornness. £130m (net) since the summer of 2010 and still know midfielder.

Sydney!

Jred, I have been of the opinion since early 2011 that United will offload Nani. Ever since Ed002 told me about Juventus and United holding talks about a move in early 2011. That's like 18 months ago. You have it the wrong way round mate. I did think it was a contractual dispute that may be resolved, but now it's clear it is tactical. It was myself and Red Man saying there was a good chance Nani will be sold, you and many others disagreeing.

Sydney!

Syd
You have this wrong I posted about him leaving and one of the edds confirmed he had been made available during the summer of 2011. Also it was myself and redman saying he may leave I think we highlighted the fact rooney was about p1ss2d off with him. I pointed out he may leave and was available but you argued it was just united playing hardball. But this is getting childish I still think he may leave but I hope he stays. Jred

Jred, I remember Ed001 telling you in October last year that he was made available. Ed002 told me in May/June 2011 that Juventus had met with United officials about taking him.

Nani has been begging for a contract since 2010 when Gill told him he will not be getting a better deal. I think that was early May 2011 time. Nani had a sulk, but decided he wanted to stay at United.

I do remember saying he was WC and I still believe when he is happy and on form he is WC. Me saying earlier that I would prefer Buttner and Young over Evra and Nani was due to Nani's poor form.

Sydney!

01 Oct 2012 10:46:03
Kind of glad I missed all the mourning over the weekend. This isn't the end of United just a phase of time when things maybe aren't as good as we've had recently. No team plays the best football and win everything all the time. Lets just support the team and see how things pan out, look toward the future.

Speaking of which how would people feel about having Carlos Quieroz come back not as an assistant but as manager with perhaps Gary Neville as his number two? I think it could work well.

Shappy

Shappy
I don't think his record as a manager is that good to be honest. Jred

01 Oct 2012 07:01:59
If Vidic had been fit on Saturday I think there is little doubt SAFs team would have included Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, Rio, Evra and Vidic. That would have been 6 of 11 players over 31 which to me is shocking. We now have the Fergie Pensioners when we used to have Fledglings. If anything crystallises the problem it is that 6 players past their best would be deemed first choice. What have we been doing in the transfer market and what have we done with our youth, why can someone acknowledged as a great manager not see this. The attempt to deflect the awful first half display with a complaint about injury time was beyond a joke.

So for the European away game in Cluj we are going with experience, in other words Fergies Pensioners in a dour attempt to get a draw, sit deep and try and do what we failed to do against City last season. Maybe we will get a point or even win but is that the mindset of a manager and club that really wants or expects to win the competition? I don't believe it is.

Fergies Pensioners, if he is not careful people will remember this and not the team he once had.

Red Man

Red Man, I have no issue with age per se, the issue I have with those players is Carrick isn't quick enough tempo-wise, Evra isn't good enough full-stop and Giggs is not a central midfielder. I have no problem with Scholes playing 'sparingly', Rio is playing due to Smalling being injured and Vidic IMO is still our best CB when fit. So age has nothing to do with it for me as players can play on for longer nowadays, but it's whether they are still at the needed standard that's important. I have no problem with Vidic, Scholes or Rio as long as the latter two are used carefully. Evra & Giggs are not good enough and Carrick doesn't fit our tempo.

Sydney!

Redman i think we all know deep down we have no chance of winning the c/l,and over the next 5 weeks newcastle away ,stoke home chelsea away twice then arsenal at home we will have a good idea of wether we will end up potless again.
johndenton

I agree in part with Redman, you cannot play Carrick (31), Scholes(37) and Giggs (39) in the same team, espcially when you are playing a midfield with the average age of 23? The brain still there but the legs arnt hence why the controlled the midfield, I personally feel he should of played this team. AL, Raf, JE, RF, AB -- MC, Ando --- Clevz, Wazza, Kagawa -- RVP up top. We at least could of matched them for pace and workrate and still have quality in side and could also go to bench for Scholes etc if needed. Said it all summer should of bought Witsel or Fellaini, no strength in our centre mid post and probably a left wing so we can get rid of Nani very overated in my opinion. But fergie is so stubborn at times that he wont change it. I know we are in transition but we have 2 losses already this season and with Chelsea and City still undefeated I think we would have to not lose another game this season to win the Prem and that isnt going to happen with the defence injuries and the cm we currently have. Hope im wrong mind but cant see it. Gutted:-( Is there any truth in the Thomas Ince deal? and also what do fans think being an ex scouser?

01 Oct 2012 02:50:54
I honestly think Fergie has been holding back his cash for a new manager to allow him to build his own squad and replace alot of the old guard which I named before....Would love to know everyones opinion

RedKnight """"
dear mr redknight
after spending 100 million in a year
ngiak is astonished that you can say he is saving money
the criticism should not be glazers stinginess
ngiak is beginning to believe that sir alex may be the problem
100 million on players when the biggest defect in the team is the middle...
playing certain players way past their prime
spurs with very fast players and hard men like dembele and sandro in the middle... and what did he do?
play the lowest and softest midfield we could muster
either he has lost the plot or he is part of a larger conspiracy
ngiak fears that the best are always beaten by one and only one thing
age
no one is the best forever...
and the true "best" know when to step aside... right, messers cantona?
gan

Absolutely agree gan. Great statement

Big Mac

01 Oct 2012 00:12:09
The Manager must go now. Age in impairing his judgement.
There is no point signing any new players until we have a new manager.
We need to reinforce our philosophy which includes giving young players a chance. How do we know that say Vidal would be any better than Tunnicliffe when the latter has not been given a chance ?
One of the frustrating things is that youth is not being progressed through the teams quick enough due to the older players in 1st team. They are taking up valuable squad/team places that the younger ones could take.
Daehli looks a sensational prospect yet is still in U18 side, and there are others.
The team selection against Spurs shows that the manager is out of touch, lacks imagination/ verve and has lost his credibility.
Time to stand aside Sir Alex and leave whilst your reputation is still intact.
PerthDave