Manchester United Banter Archive September 20 2012

 

Use our rumours form to send us manchester united transfer rumours.


20 Sep 2012 22:54:53
Syd you are right about Evra, but fergy will keep playing him because he has to justify getting him a stupidly high contract extension when he was already past his peak. He offers us nothing as a defender and less as a attacker, bootner needs to play against the fools or stirling will turn him inside out.-MB-

Believable9 Unbelievable3

It will be embarrassing if Evra plays this weekend. He will get torn to shreds by Sterling. BR will be telling Sterling and Kelly to get at Evra as that is the way through.

Sydney!

Agree4 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 21:54:06
Just been thinking how good our squad is looking for the future. The number of quality players under 24 that we have in the first team squad is extraordinary. Plus we have great out on loan and in the reserves.

Assuming we don't buy or sell any player (which I seriously hope is not the case) who do you guys think we'll be starting in 5 years time?

Red steph

Believable3 Unbelievable4

Henriquez Powell vermijl tunnicliffe and daehli

Caolán.

Agree0 Disagree0

De Gea, Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Buttner, Kagawa, Cleverley, Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez, Powell, Petrucci, Keane.

A lot of young talents there with a few of them having high high potential.

-JakeW

Agree1 Disagree1

Daelhi for 1.

Supasub

Agree1 Disagree0

Without more signing this would be my team:

___________De Gea
Rafael__Smalling__Jones__Fabio
____Clevs__Tunners__Powell
__Januzaj__Welbeck__Kagawa

However Blackett, Henriquez, Keane, Petrucci, Barmby, Daehli and Lingard will also be part of the squad I'm sure.

Fresh!

Agree2 Disagree3

In 5 years time without any more signings which wouldnt happen but here goes.

_______________De Gea
Rafael_____Smalls____Jones____Blackett
__________Clevs______Tunns_________
_______Januzaj__Powell__Perreira______
_______________Henriquez___________

Kind of like a 4231 but now ingers so ther like 3 attacking playmakers interchanging I think that formation should be tested out with the current team aswell.

Agree0 Disagree2

I personally think that in 5 years time (if he is not sold) Rooney will be running our midfield like scholes does now but with more energy, he will only be 31

Karllap

Agree0 Disagree2

In 5 years time if SAF is still in charge:

_____________De Gea
Rafael_____Rio___Vidic_____Evra
________Carrick___Scholes__
Valencia_______Kagawa_____Giggs
_______________Rvp_______

Devil Dust.

Agree2 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 21:27:36
Finally the chance to post about last night.

We were incredibly poor overall, the game was open for the first 20 minutes and we scored in that period. Tactically the Turks were so far ahead of us it was a concern. We set up with two slow central midfield players and two wingers, plus Kagawa off RVP. The Turks pushed up aggressively on our centre halves at every opportunity and then made our keeper kick it regularly. No one seems to have figured why, well it was good tactics. They spotted that we pass the ball across our back four from side to side then into our midfield and back again. By pressing our back four we kicked and gave it away. Our midfield are not capable of holding the ball in the middle of the park as other teams are and the Turks realised that. Then they came at us with pace through the middle where Scholes had one of his worst ever games giving the ball away poorly at times. Scholes and Carrick were just slow and cumbersome , so their style using pace cut through us and they were onto our back four easily. We haven't changed the way we play for many years, Kagawa is effectively in for Rooney but Kagawa doesn't score enough goals and with this style we rely on him and midfield to score. So Carrick did but then our old fashioned style left us wide open in midfield. We play to get the ball wide all the time and then hope that by crossing incessantly we will score. Others Tactics have moved on but we haven't.

Last night was a shocking performance , if that is our strongest team we will conclude that getting out of the group is the highest aim we have. Where were the changes needed to counter the tactics? Well Phelan didn't appear on the touchlne until about 60 mins and I didn't see SAF at all. Why was that when we were hopeless , is it because tactically we didn't know what to do? This is about more than Nani who should not have been near that penalty but all about the continuing persistence of our ageing manager too set in his ways to see that Scholes is past it, that tactically we have fallen well behind whilst insisting on playing two wingers, then when it is obviously not working showing total indecisiveness with substitutions. How big a risk was Fletcher, whose idea was that?
Ok it was the first game and we won but anyone at OT last night could see it was beyond dire, that we are falling behind not just in personnel particularly in the middle of the park but in what is going on between SAFs ears and that is more worrying than the poor performance of any one player.

Red Man

Believable12 Unbelievable2

Sorry meant to say 4-2-4 is outdated.

Keanooh

Agree0 Disagree0

Red Man - agree with everything you say, why we persist with 4-4-2 is beyond me, tactics have moved on. Most teams flood the midfield, either with holding players or the diamond formation allowing players to break forward. We keep 2 central midfielders who understandably get outnumbered, we ask them to protect the defence and also support the forwards, an impossible task. Why our coaching staff / manager can't see us getting overrun in midfield is mystifying.
This season we have struggled in all of our games and look anything but champions. Our rigid formation is stopping us getting the best out of Kagawa and RVP, maybe the return of Rooney will force a change of tactics, we can all hope.
I fully expect Liverpool to dominate possession on Sunday unless Fergie changes tactics and packs midfield. We really do need to review our formation to stand any chance of success this season, sorry but 4-4-2 is outdated.

Keanooh

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 21:13:03
To all you nani haters... He is argubly the best rw in the world on his day.. Has scored and will continue to score vital goals for united. Valencia played worse than nani last night.. I believe he was united's player of the season 2 or 3 seasons ago.. This guy has raw talent and mark my words he will be influential this season.

AAM

Believable3 Unbelievable21

Are you drunk! deluded! been on the magic mushrooms nani dad brother mother cousin aunty have sight problems

Agree5 Disagree4

He has the potential to certainly be one of the best wingers in the world, sadly consistency is not one of his strong points hence why i had to disagree with your post.....there were glimpses of him last nite that certainly had me licking my lips especially his link up play with kagawa which was sublime to watch, if he did that on a regular basis he cud easily become one hell of a player for us

Robbo

Agree4 Disagree5

The 2 people that hit the disagree button to my comment abviously know nothing about football......

Robbo

Agree0 Disagree1

20 Sep 2012 21:01:19
Are there really people saying Nani had a good game last night? Really? He wasn't awful, but he certainly wasn't good. Percy, you say RVP had a shocking match. Why? Because Nani and Valencia didn't supply him with quality service. Valencia was poor last night, but he's normally very good. With Nani however, the poor performances are FAR too frequent. The fact is, Fergie wanted him gone this summer and last summer. And as things stand, his price is dropping more and more.

G.A.G.U.S

Believable12 Unbelievable5

Wow. Nani creates around 6 clear goal scoring opportunities and is still slated. I'm just not sure what you expect from him. If the finishing was better, the match would have been done and dusted very early.

Percy {Ed007's Note - So can anyone see me argument about how inaccurate the 'assists' stat is now.......just asking....

Agree2 Disagree3

Six chances Percy? Six? He created something like 2 clear chances and then delivered a poor ball to RVP. If you refuse to see that Nani is far too inconsistent for United, then what's the point in arguing with you. United want him gone. Everyone keeps saying £25m. Frankly, I wouldn't pay it. I know it's harsh, but I wouldn't.

G.A.G.U.S

Agree9 Disagree2

Nani was not good at all last night he once agin delivered a couple of decent balls but then when he has the simplest things he can not deliver like the pass to RVP it was like 3on2 and RVP had acres and Nani had no pressure yet couldnt put a ball to RVP he put it behind him... like everyone keeps saying he does the odd bit of good play then has a shambles his decision making and final ball are so inconsistent it is hilarious. You keep saying he gets the most assists or whatever but he should be getting more with the chances and positions he gets into as we use our wing play more than anything.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 20:56:31
I have so much to say on the subject that don't even know where to start... The fact that people are jumping on the 'sack Ferguson' bandwagon is just absolutely laughable and frankly disturbing. Take a step back and look at what he has done in his career. Even at Aberdeen.
I'm not just talking about the disgusting amount of trophies he has guided us to, but the manner of which it has been done.
He has been in the business for longer than many posters on here have been alive, working with world class football players every single day, yet some people still think they know better because he hasn't got rid of Evra, or brought in a bloody 'midfield general'. (If I hear that term once I'll lose my marbles!)
If people think that football hasn't changed since he took charge, you are wrong.... so to suggest we need someone new as football is changing is absurd.
This obsession with constantly spanking money in the transfer market is also disturbing, and my opinion very immature.
Wanyama, Goetze, Ozil, Hummels, Izzaguirre, Pastore, Cavani, Montolivo, Kaka, Benzema, Higuain, Schweinsteiger, MATT JARVIS, McCarthy (sorry ed), Isco, Tiote, Cabaye, Ba, Rodwell, Di Maria, Drogba, Snjeider, Fellaini, Herrera, Ogbonna, Chielini, Bruno Alves, Falcao, M'vila, Hazard, Cissokho, Vertonghen, Moura, Bale, Baines, Modric, Munain, Tello, Thiago, Lahm, Dembele, Sigurdsson, Sessegnon, Johnson... the list is ABSOLUTELY ENDLESS..... all coming from the same section of posters. YOU are the ones that have no clue as you spend your time like little kids running around a sweet shop and have no idea which ones to buy with your so called ten pence. Buying a player isn't like telling your mum what you want for Christmas. How you can criticise without having a clue yourselves makes me sick and laugh at the same time.
Not only that, but SAF, Mike Phelan, our physios, Nani, Carrick, Rio, Evra, Scholes, Giggs, Hernandez, Rooney, Valencia, Rafael, Jones, Fabio, Anderson, Evans, Macheda, Welbeck, Young, DDG, (this list also goes on) have all been slated, ridiculed and put down, which for me, is baffling. Some players have slumps in form, others take a while to mature from youth and others are simply squad players. Yet people insist on shipping them out immediately.
No one that reads this site knows more about football, tactics or which players to buy than the people at the club. That my friends is a fact. So those who whine about everything constantly need to take a deep breath close your eyes and simply don't breathe again.
I'm not saying we should blindly support the club, but get real some of you.
Sod it, I have absolutely loads to say but I just can't botherd, some of which people on here haven't even thought about or considered.
SAF is not here for too much longer, so embrace it because, for all you youngens, the last 20 years have been a blessing, and you need to get used to the idea that things will be a lot more of a challenge moving forward.
Apologies for the rant, very, very bad day. Also sorry if this post isn't particularly well constructed I just want to get to the end of it so I can eat my porridge.

Whistler.

Believable10 Unbelievable6

Couldn't agree more with you.

Sychlops

Agree2 Disagree1

Not only is there very few world class players in the squad but SAF doesnt take the training sessions either so he doesn't work with the players every single day. He picks the team based on the training reports from the coaching staff - FACT!

Flimbo

Agree3 Disagree2

Great post. (/rant)

DodgyBanter

Agree2 Disagree1

Flimbo, SAF spends enough time on the training pitch I assure you...

Whistler.

Agree2 Disagree0

20 sep 2012 20:56:07
i prefer we sell nani for 20m pounds,anderson for 13m pounds,macheda for 4m pounds and bebe for 4m pounds in january and so raise 41m pounds and bring in fellaini 20m pounds,ogbonna 16m pounds and isco for 10m pounds......what do you think ed??

Believable2 Unbelievable5

Yep just like that.. Easy Peasey!

-JakeW

Agree4 Disagree0

Where do you get the idea that someone is going to pay 34M for Nani and Anderson? Are you insane or just plain dizzy? Other clubs can see the pair of them have failed to live up to their original price tags so why would they be stupid enough to pay ridiculous money for them? Think people!

Flimbo

Agree4 Disagree0

I reckon we need someone like you mr no namer to replace fergie asap

i like your plans, they intrigue me lol

Robbo

Agree0 Disagree1

20 Sep 2012 20:38:38
I know a few will doubt me here but I really like Sandro at Tottenham... Ever since he joined I have been impressed.

Believable7 Unbelievable3

Me too, he has a calmness about him but he has an edge too. He is solid in everything he does and has better passing vision than most DM's. Plus he has shown he can do it in the prem and even in the champions league. I think he'd do wonders to our midfield. The other similar player i've been impressed with when i've seen him is Etienne Capoue, although he has to work on a couple of area's of his game and isn't proven in the prem.

Shappy

Agree6 Disagree0

Shappy - I know he is a good player but he could be a quality player and he is very young still I like him as he gets his foot in and also has the ability to be effective in the oppositions box too. He would probably cost around £20million though judging by Levy's standards..... which means we could sign M'Villa, Wanyama or maybe even Khedira for just a little more.

Agree0 Disagree0

Khedira can be very average and people forget having benzima, ronaldo and the rest of that front line can make a lot of players look better than they are. shahram

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 20:23:01
Why Are everyone so furious about Nani? I know he is inconsistent, but last night he played very good. He created a lot og chanses and his passing was good.

Praise when praise is due!

Moen#7

Believable6 Unbelievable8

Whoever diagreed to this comment obviously must have been watching a different game than most of us....

nani was one of the outstanding performers last night, he was constantly trying to make things happen, he messed up his penalty and then did a dive but apart from that he was pretty solid

is it just me or has valencia lost a bit of form or something? his final ball recently has been absolutely shocking, gets himself into great positions still but his crossing is usually miles better than it has been this season!

Robbo

Agree4 Disagree2

20 Sep 2012 19:46:37
I know this will probably get shot down but here goes. I would like to see our team axe the wingers just for a game and I think this would be a great team due to Kagawa and RVP preferring central play I believe.

_________________DDG
Rafael______Ferdy______Vidic_____Buttner
________________Carrick_______________
________Cleverley_______Anderson_______
________________Kagawa_______________
__________Rooney______RVP____________

If Rooney is not fit then Hernandez should be paired with RVP they look like they can link up well together. Maybe even play Valencia at right back. I think this would work because Clevs, Ando and Kags can all play out wide and have the energy to run like mad men all game while Carrick sits and just patrols with the ball. I just think one up front has not worked all season so maybe 2 up top would improve.

Believable9 Unbelievable1

This is what I think is our strongest team and best tactics we could use currently. Long term we need someone who can stay fit to replace Anderson and someone who is a proper DM to replace Carrick as he isn't an out and out DM. Personally i'd like Hector Herrera and either Sandro or Capoue all of which I think are realistic options.

Shappy {Ed004's Note - Or m'Vila or Wanyama}

Agree4 Disagree0

I just think we rely on wingers too much and I think Kagawa is far better when the ball is played in the centre of the park.

Agree0 Disagree0

Wanyama is still very raw and would.be at least a year or two away form.being able to hold down a regular spot at our club. As for M'Vila theres something about him that i'm just not sure about. Plus he's been available all summer and no one moved for him, this to me would indicate that all the top.clubs have reservations about him too.

For me Sandro is the best option. And Capoue was better over the course of the season last year than M'Vila, is much more consistant and hasn't got an attitude problem.

Shappy

Agree4 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 19:41:13
Watching the reserves tunnicliffe just made a great run and set up king really hope he plays in coc cup, along with Sam Johnstone he is going to be a great keeper but will he get enough chances? What does everyone think?

Caolán.

Believable0 Unbelievable1

You really might want to change your acronym for the name of the Captal One Cup...

The Moon.

Agree5 Disagree0

What was the score in the end?

Agree0 Disagree0

4-1.

Caolán.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 19:38:23
To combat getting over run against Liverpool this has to be the team.

_________________DDG
Rafael_____Ferdy________Vidic_____Buttner
________________Carrick________________
_________Cleverley_____Anderson________
__ToniV_________________________Kagawa
_________________RVP

Maybe put Kagawa in Anderson's position and then start Nani on the left.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

I wouldn't rule out Rooney playing.

Sydney!

Agree2 Disagree1

Rooney will not be thrown in against Liverpool... he has trained twice this week and we have seen how long it takes him to get fit, he will feature against Newcastle in the cup and that will be his first game back

RedKnight

Agree0 Disagree0

You might think im mad but take out RIO and put Rooney in the team.

Push Anderson onto the left and roo in his posistion leaving Kagawa free, i would leave roo free but every game i watch i always see him track back to that position and play the ball from there.

Reddevilfan

Agree0 Disagree3

RedKnight, Rooney has been training indoors for a couple of weeks now. If he isn't ready it will be down to his podge, not down to the gash. I wouldn't be surprised to see Rooney included.

Sydney!

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 19:04:16
same last nite as in alot of games last season , utd s center midfielders are 2 slow when we don t have the ball ,once the opposition goes past them there is no chance of them gettin back so there is little protection 4 the defence .would like 2 see jones get a chance in midfield if we dont sign anyone he is big strong and is a good passer.. i always support any utd player who plays 4 us and want them 2 do well but never have been a nani fan .

Believable6 Unbelievable1

20 Sep 2012 18:35:16
Matches against Liverpool are always tough but we can't afford to be as negative as we were last season. This would be my team:

__________De Gea
Rafael__Evans__Vidic__Buttner
____Clevs__Carrick__Ando
____Tony____RVP___Kags

Carrick to sit in front of the back four. We need Anderson's driving runs to get us up the pitch and playing Cleverly is a no brainer and tbh, there is no one else since Scholes would probably be a little jaded from midweek! Valencia and Rafael up the right hand side is one of our best partnerships so that should remain undisturbed. RVP should of course play in the middle and Kagawa I'm hoping makes the left hand side his own like David Silva. Kagawa would float more and cut in from the left flank and Buttner would provide plenty of width. If Kagawa can play left then we could afford to sell Nani as we'd have two good options in Young and Kagawa for that side. Kagawa playing left also means Rooney can play behinf RVP which is ideal.

Fresh!

Believable6 Unbelievable2

20 Sep 2012 18:27:58
this i not motd fever but jus watchin young boys vs a team called liverpool and a quality stand out player for the red team is a player called stewart downing, eds what do u think the chances of sir alex signing him are? he would complete our midfield

1991devil

Believable5 Unbelievable5

Are you f'ing serious? stewart downing? ba ahah.

Agree2 Disagree0

I think this was a joke, surely ?

GDS

Agree1 Disagree1

20 Sep 2012 18:27:47
Just catching up on all the posts today and am amazed at the differing views. Some think Nani was dreadful, some think he played well. Some think Evra was poor (that's you Syd), whilst some are defending him. Carrick was MOTM... or he wasn't. Some are languid, some are overreacting. However, I think we all agree that:

1. We need to agree who is taking penalties and get them practicing

2. We do not have a dominant midfielder who can get hold of a game by the scruff of the neck...and we need one.

I'll defend SAF forever but I do wonder what he is thinking right now around the CM roles - if he has a master plan I can't see it.

AJH

Believable10 Unbelievable1

No one said Evra had a good game last night, that's because he didn't. Most have stopped commenting on his poor displays now as it does become tedious.

Some will defend him because they remember the Evra of 2007-2009. Even Ev himself has admitted to two poor seasons. Some think it's a 2.5 year rut, but most can see he is on his last legs.

Sydney!

Agree19 Disagree11

Gee Syd, most disagree with you. You're a quality poster but you are a little obsessed with Evra and Cleverley. I didn't say Evra had a good game, just commented on the differing opinions. For what it's worth, I think SAF will play him at Anfield. Perhaps you should have a word...

AJH

Agree6 Disagree18

20 Sep 2012 16:46:36
Looking over the posts for the last 18 hours, I can't help but laugh. Nani and Kagawa were the only players who looked like they might do something. Nani must have made 6 key passes, all of which have been overlooked because Hernandez and RVP were absolute rubbish! Yeah he missed a penalty, so did RVP and Rooney this season, let's sell them too. Man of the match was De Gea, then Rafael, Kagawa and Nani, in a pretty poor team performance. And just a side note, how shockingly poor was RVP?!

Percy

Believable7 Unbelievable11

Percy

RVP is a goalscorer and needs supply..unfortunately Nani and Valencia were BOTH woeful and the wings are where United rely on to produce chances for their strikers.

It was a poor team performance and for me Rafael Kagawa and De Gea played well saying Nani was better than Carrick Scholes Evra and Valencia last night is not much to brag about cause they were very very poor.

Devil Dust.

Agree6 Disagree3

Was RVP really poor? You must have been watching a different match to me. He held up the ball excellently most times which is all he could do as the delivery he got was awful. Nani do have some good touches but for the most part he was terrible, too slow on the ball in the final area and most times took the wrong option. Agreed, Kagawa was out best player in attack by far but Nani wasn't and RVP wasn't poor.

Welsh Dragon

Agree2 Disagree4

RVP wasn't given a single opportunity due to poor assisting. Nani being one of the culprits. Nani was disappointing yesterday, but he wasn't as bad as people made out.

Sydney!

Agree2 Disagree2

Percy, I was waiting for you to post. My only suggestion to you is that you actually open your eyes when you watch games. If you think that Nani is not on the chopping block you are in for a shock. If not for his outrageous wage demands he would be playing for Zenit. It's not just his missed penalty that people are on about it's about how consistently poor he is. I'll give you last night he was better than he has been but really he hasn't set the bar very high honestly. I guarantee he won't take another penalty unless it's a shootout and he has to. The reason he saw so much of the ball last night is because he was constantly in other peoples positions. If he would stick to his job and do the bare minimum which includes putting in crosses and tracking back then you could defend him. Making a few passes on a night where he wasted more possesion than anyone doesn't make him a standout for me. For me the penalty miss was just the cherry on top of another poor performance from him. Funny you mention RVP being poor but you don't mention how he was forced out wide to cover for the roaming Nani. I agree that Kagawa looked good think speeding up play and finding him in space with room to work will allow him to show more of his quality. So you say Hernandez is rubbish why cause Nani played him through and he didn't score. You might want to watch a replay from the other day when your hero was clear through but he chose to try and chip the keeper when he was on his line. That my friend was rubbish... What channel was the game on for you yesterday because it seems we have watched different games *sigh*

Darren-Bermuda

Agree3 Disagree2

Percy

I love your loyalty to Nani, it's commendable. Whilst I found him a little frustrating last night, I found several others far more frustrating, the stick he has had on the site has been a little unbalanced. However...I'd still sell him as he's never lived up to the price tag or his potential

AJH

Agree2 Disagree1

Just read Devil Dust's comment. Agree with most but Carrick was ok, he started well but got sucked back into sitting in front of the back four. When paired with Scholes, we lack pace in the centre.

AJH

Agree1 Disagree0

Percy,

The problem with Nani is that he always looks like he'll do something but doesn't!

First half he had a simple pass to RVP who was unmarked on edge of the box out to the left and the pass was intercepted.

Second half, similar situation with RVP but this time the pass was behind RVP which made the first touch difficult when a simple pass in front was required.

Then he runs to get the ball for the pen and puts it perfect height and distance wide for the GK with no power.

Nani is exciting when he gets the ball as he engages defenders but he is wasteful in possession to often and needs to understand that a simple pass, decision is usually more effective.

I thought Valencia last night was wasteful in possession but what he provides is a threat in behind the FB on the outside which pushes the FB backwards and dropping deeper. He also provides us natural width.

Last season against United at the Emirates, Arsene Wenger took off Walcott and Chamberlain which allowed our FB's to push on and our wingers to push forward more and that's when we took hold of the game and won. Having wingers that can do that, it makes a great difference.

When we were great we had Giggs one side and Kanchelshis the other and then although Beckham was a different RM in his early days he took players on on the outside and as he got slower he provided us width.

Ronaldo became a threat when defenders didn't know whether to show him inside OR outside as he could punish them either way.

Nani does not offer this at the moment, he comes inside into traffic and holds on to the ball to long, he gives away silly fouls when the ball is in the attacking third and he's behind the defender and when he does track back he gives away silly fouls.

What makes Nani exciting yet frustrating is he now and again produces a strike like the one against Chelsea last year but this is far and few between, he should punish teams like Galatasary but he doesn't.

Sorry mate, I love your commitment to him but he's now had 3 years to step up since Ronaldo has gone and hasn't produced the goods enough, he was never going to replace him but he could of cemented his spot in the team and he hasn't and there's a reason for this.

Ports

Agree0 Disagree0

RVP was utterly shocking, he could do nothing right yesterday, and was easily our worst player last night. Nani and Kagawa has some excellent passing movements which is why I think that Valencia should have come off for Welbeck, rather than Kagawa, then there would have been 3 brilliant ball players.

Percy

Agree1 Disagree6

Percy, take your head outta Nani's arse, Van Persie didnt perform due to lack of assist, Nani imparticular.

RED_LAD

Agree4 Disagree0

Percy - How could RVP be shocking in a game where he had no supply? He can't go it alone every game he held the ball well and use his strength he was very isolated.

Agree1 Disagree0

Percy, make the most of Nani mate as his days are numbered at the club.

Sydney!

Agree4 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 16:44:17
Too annoyed to post on the game last night, because of a certain individual, but going to try now (deep breath)...

Nani obviously splits the posters, and I was always prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, always considering him a better option than Young. But I have come to the conclusion, that for all his flashes of brilliance, the issue is not a footballing one..... I just think the lad is genuinely thick as mince.

Three examples last night:
1. the penalty - only George Best, Messi etc had/have the ability to score penalties like that. The rest of them need to just pick a spot and hit it. Even RVP knew his was a mistake, but Nani obviously didn't learn.

2. Turk defender guarding the ball near his own touchline after a Utd attack breaks down. Good opportunity to keep the pressure on. Nani runs 10 yards straight into the guy and shoves him off the ball. Free kick and the Turks take the initiative.

3. Picking up the ball during play - the ball might well have been burst, but who in their right mind, when their team is in the opposition half, decides to pick it up and give away a free kick?? Let the Turks do it, or wait on the ref to decide, even kick it out for a throw at worst, but don't give the opposition a free kick and a chance to alleviate the pressure on them.

I'm not being nasty to the guy, everyone has different levels of intelligence. I just think a lack of intelligence has hindered his development into a potentially world-class player, and this has been evident over the seasons with wrong choice of pass etc, but those episodes last night just epitomised it for me.

Footballing wise, it wasn't his worst game, some nice link-up work and through balls, though he still scored highly on my tut-ometer, especially in the first half, and he seems to have picked up Rooney's worrying habit of holding onto the ball for too long, and losing possession in good areas as a result

As for the others, to sum up briefly, Kagawa needs to be used more as a focal point for our attacks, DeGea is still our No1 keeper, no matter what SAF thinks, Scholes can't play 2 games in a week, and Toni was poor by his own standards - made Nani look like a great crosser of the ball. Thought Johnny Evans was our best player, and not just because of NI bias. Looked strong and composed throughout, apart from the dodgy tackle near the end!,and was confident coming out of defence with the ball.

Thought when we scored, it was going to go on and be one of those great European nights at OT. Unfortunately our midfield is a poor imitation of what our midfield used to be, and we can count ourselves a little fortunate to have come away with a win. I certainly wouldn't have been surprised if the Turks had got a draw.

6/10 - glad for the three points, but improvement needed.


StevieK

Believable9 Unbelievable1

For gods sake. Lay off nani's back. He made 4 key passes last night all of which led to one on one situations and all missed by the other attackers. So get off his back. Valencia was total useless and yet no criticism!

Agree2 Disagree3

No name, Valencia has money in the bank for his performances last couple of years, Nani rubbishe and it will be interesting to see how many more games he plays this season.

A

Agree3 Disagree1

I gave the guy credit for some of his link up play, and accepted Valencia was poor. The reason Toni doesn't get criticised is because he is normally so consistent, he can be forgiven the odd poor game. Nani doesn't have that luxury I'm afraid.

StevieK

Agree3 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 16:04:07
after watching that game i think nani fits in better with the fast play and quick passes kagawa plays. they link well together however valencia is to predictable and slows it down alot

real talk

Believable4 Unbelievable2

20 Sep 2012 15:04:13
Hello all, I have noticed something today on this site, and others, and from talking to fellow fans that there has been a shift from a small minority questioning SAF abilities, to a large majority. Some of the things being said here today would have brought down vitriolic abuse on the head of the poster even a few weeks ago.
The absolute worst thing that could happen to SAF after 26 iconic years at the helm is for the fans to turn against him and start calling publicly for him to step down. I really believe that the time is rapidly approaching when he needs to move aside and let a younger, fresher, hungrier, more tactically astute manager bring us into the future.

J Bones.

Believable12 Unbelievable7

Some people don't realise what they have until it's gone. I can understand people questioning Fergie, but to think that it'd be better for the club of he leaves is simply deluded. Who could do a better job?

Fred

Agree7 Disagree4

If your car needs new wheels you get new wheels simple

Stagmufc

Agree3 Disagree1

Sometimes Fred change is good.

You cannot deny we have gone backwards in the last few years and to believe nobody could possibly come in with new ideas both on the training ground and on the pitch and MAYBE improve the way we play is in my opinion deluded.

Devil Dust.

Agree6 Disagree2

I think hes just gettin abit lost in the times now and makes some shocking tactis and substitutions and there seems to be noone at the club who will have an input and they all jus go along with it, fergie puts faith in players who the fans dont (for good reason) and doesnt give players we want to see a chance, im not sayin i know better than sir alex but when evry fans says the same thing then i believe the man may be choosin wrong options and making errors which we can see

Agree4 Disagree1

Correct mate I think many are starting to see what a few have noticed earlier and that is the glaring weaknesses in the team. It was apparant 2 years ago, was highlighted by even weaker teams last year and 6 windows have passed with no CM reinforcement.

This season has shown no increase in playing tempo or change of style after the "follow in Barca's footstep" comment and that coupled with almost everyones disappointment in no CMer has shown through in how our team cannot dominate v Fulham, Southampton or Galatasaray.

4 years ago we would be rolling 3-5 in against them and maybe letting the gas off to concede 1 or 2. Not just edging games 3-2 or 1-0 where we are hanging in there with the woodwork and top shotstopping holding onto those wins.

It feels like at times I am not watching Manchester United. I am watching a replica where the quality is allot less. We seem scared to move with the times and change from our wingers identity yet Bayern have managed fine and have a team that matched up V ours would probably beat us hands down. Madrid, Barca, Juve, City, Chelsea have all changed to more CMers especially against other top teams yet we cant through SAF stubborness and devotion to 4-4-2 or his varient 4-4-1-1. These tactics will no doubt have there time again in the future but it will be long after SAF has gone.

We need change and have done for 4 years. The old SAF after the first Barca lesson would have wielded the axe and cleared out a fair few amount of players buying youth and experience in a nice blend to create something new but we have stagnated and regressed into a shell of our former self who are struggling to offload players and keep the top youth talents that have been the jewels in the crown. Instead we see us playing 37 year old wingers in CM versus the best natural midfielders in our league and we lose our league title. We resign a retired 38 year old to help us out and 6 months after he does a sterling job we resign him again instead of buying someone who we can get years out of.

The whole area in CM stinks of desperation. We have resigned oldies, stuck with players clearly not of the required standard, played most players in there out of position and held back youth players for whatever reason. We are behind a number of teams in our league for CM never mind Europe. The core area in the modern game is CM, everything goes through there and all the exciting attacking play cannot begin if the CM dont start it off. Without a CM that can compete and go toe to toe with the best we will continually come up short. There was no excuses before this window, and although VP and Kagawa were top signings that show we can attract players of that quality we were still without the reinforcement that we NEEDED. This for me was shocking and I tried to stay positive so as to not get branded an anti Utd or SAF fan but where does the blame ly if not squarely at his feet? He prides himself on taking the reigns over all the aspects of the club so therefore he is the prime target when the wheels start to come loose.

Mancini bumps his gums and blames his transfer guy for no signings the next thing they have is 2 CMers they didnt really need, one of which is top quality. We see Fellaini and Dembele smash our team to pieces and yet Spurs and Everton still have them. Witsel - Zenit, Moutinho - Porto the list goes on and the list of players who can improve our CM gets bigger every year.

Yet we will only sign a player if he will improve us in SAF eyes. In that case nobody is better than Ando!

As I have said before and got slated for 3rd this season unless we have some drastic shake up for the good of the team.

Jono

Agree7 Disagree0

Interesting. I sat through '78 to '93'before SAF finally delivered the league for us so he will remain an iconic figure for me in terms of what he has achieved and delivered for us. However...Brian Clough went on too long and no-one was prepared to tell him it was time to go. I don't think that is where we are with SAF but I am concerned that he will go on too long, and nobody will be prepared to say so. Perhaps it is now...perhaps not...

AJH

Agree6 Disagree0

Very well said football evolution 442 is a thing of the past, I agree totally.
It's more 41212. 3511 with wing backs.
Out and out wingers are finished wing backs are the new wingers.
Your midfield all have to be good on the
ball, I mean fit to take the ball into challenges and hold on the it aka barca.

Stagmufc

Agree3 Disagree0

What cr#p!! We have played 5 games this season,now u wanting saf out. Get back to playing fifa!

Agree0 Disagree4

20 Sep 2012 14:54:27
We don't have a problem in midfield...
I think the main issue is we are not intelligent enough to close the opponents. Even whenever we try to close the opponent in two then get away easily... that's y i think we not intelligent enough to know when & how to pressurise your opponent...
Maybe it's down to the tactics or formation, i don't know
But I know for sure, we have a quality midfield
This is just my opinion...

And btw, Nani played really well... His link up with Kagawa was really good... Someone said that any player can look good with quality player. it might be true but i feel kagawa was intelligent enough to read Nani's pass and movement.. That's why I think they link up really well

And finally, sometimes when you are in the final third and you don't have much option there is nothing wrong to pass back and build up again!

Believable3 Unbelievable11

Hey Sir Alex ,didn't know you visited this site. Anyways I'm a big fan, hope you do somthing abt our midfield.

Agree3 Disagree1

20 Sep 2012 14:23:41
Kloot is right, we all know we need to strengthen our midfield. The rumours persist that we continue to look at strikers and now a central defender? Our main area of weakness that will cost us dearly is our midfield. Sell Nani and use the cash to strengthen our midfied and look to sell and replace some other midfielders. Leadership on and off the field appears to be weak.

A man united!

Believable7 Unbelievable1

A man united! the problem with selling Nani is that we would leave ourselves very tight with wingers, i.e. only Valencia and Young (Giggs will be retired). So if we sold Nani, we would need the money to buy a replacement. Wellbeck, Rooney and Kagawa are not wingers and do not count as such.

J Bones.

Agree4 Disagree3

Wings, schmingers. Nothing says we have to play 2 wingers. Let's be honest, the 2 we play at the moment seem to spend far too much time off the wing.

AJH

Agree4 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 14:22:08
wow so many critics on here today, we didnt play well but we grinded the result out, isnt that what we have been doing the last 10 years in europe.(except for last year)

lets get behind our team not just on here but in the stands to, I thought the atmosphere at ot last night was awful, all i heard was turkish fans. Lets get behind our lads instead of waiting for them to make mistakes.

United for life.

Williams13

Believable4 Unbelievable2

20 Sep 2012 14:04:59
All you people who claim to be supporters need to take a reality check. Firstly Nani had a great game last night, granted he missed a penalty (so did RVP, does that mean we should sell him?) but overall his link up play with Evra was great, yes he held the ball for too much time at times, but there wasn't much movement up top. Secondly, Carrick does not do Sideways and backward passes, for me he was MOTM last night, he was key in haalf the attacks we had, and played through some great balls. You all need to start supporting the TEAM instead of individual players, and stop slating your own players, at the end of the day, you do not chose whether Nani is sold or not, that lies with SAF and David Gill, now shutup and cheer the team on instead of picking out all the negatives!

Jake F

Believable8 Unbelievable11

Nani wasn't as poor as some have made out, but he had far from a 'great' game. It wasn't that he missed the penalty, it was him taking it off of RVP and trying to be clever with the run up. At the end of the game all he needed to do was pass the ball to RVP to be slotted in, there was little pace on the pass and it was behind RVP. Little things like this can cost you titles. He has also adopted a new habit of holding the ball up unnecessarily which slows the tempo down. He is quick getting from one half to the other, yet stops when he gets to the oppo penalty area, by the time he has played his ball the defence has had time to get into position. It's like he has replaced Berbatov. I do like Nani when he is on form, but he is a disaster when he lacks confidence.

Sydney!

Agree3 Disagree3

Jake are your eyes painted! on

Agree3 Disagree2

Jake, don't necessarily agree with all your comments but agree absolutely with the sentiments. Well said.

AJH

Agree2 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 13:43:32
2 Years ago we were well and truely beaten by a Barcelona team that passed the ball through us and also ran through our midfield. Every one of us said to a man we need a world class midfielder to boss the game. Last year we lost the league due to teams like City and Everton at Old Trafford being able to run through our midfield. It all culminated in a team going to the Council House that had Giggs and Scholes in the midfield. Still this summer came around and we all knew what kind of player we needed to buy we were even given a massive hint in the Fulham game. Did we buy one NO!. We now have a shockingly weak midfield that struggles against mediocre premiership teams and will get found out easily. It cost us last season inviting teams on lets hope this does not repeat itself. I AM KLOOT

Believable13 Unbelievable1

KLOOT

Did SAF not say, after that embarassment against Barca, that he'd never let it happen again and knew where we were weakest?

I agree, WTF has he done to correct that error? Now, instead of struggling against Barcelona, we struggle against Basle, Galatasaray, Bilbao etc. In other words, the also-rans of Europe.

Things have declined, not improved. I am baffled as to what is going on.

RED_SKY

Agree8 Disagree2

KLOOT you have been the very one coming on here the last couple of years saying how great Carrick is and how the bashers havent got a clue and cant see the defensive work he does making interceptions and last ditch tackles.

The fact of the matter is he is too slow and not mobile enough to play in a two man midfield (3 maybe) so dont come on saying how shocking the midfield is now cause when some of us were saying certain players were not good enough (ie. Carrick) you and others started saying how great he was and that we hadnt a clue !

We dont have ANY top quality CM player at the club.

Devil Dust.

Agree7 Disagree2

You know how to moan even after a couple wins! Just support the team! Fletcher is back and SAF knows more than you!
Q

Agree2 Disagree12

Everton didn't run through our midfield RFT, they kicked the ball over our midfield to Fellaini missing out the midfield entirely.

Sydney!

Agree4 Disagree8

Devil Dust, do you think we may play a 4-3-3 on Sunday with Carrick, Anderson & Cleverley? Carrick sat in front of the back four as the distributor with Anderson and Cleverley as the high tempo attack in front of him. Could Valencia, Van Persie & Welbeck play as a front three. Very defensive and would keep things tight.

-----------Carrick-----------
---_Cleverley---Anderson---
Valencia--VanPersie--Welbeck

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - I think kagawa will and should be played. Maybe where welbeck is}

Agree1 Disagree0

Ed004, but if we want to ride the storm as SAF puts it, shouldn't we do that with the players above, then 20 minutes from the end bring on Nani, Kagawa and Rooney and go for it?

Sydney! {Ed004's Note - I don't think we should try and ride the storm though. Our defence has been shaky this year. I think we need to pressure them up the field. I don't rate the wing backs at Liverpool and sterling isn't good defensively. Let kagawa cut in and buttner attack the line.}

Agree2 Disagree1

I think that formation would suit Carricks abilities down to the ground however I dont see SAF changing from 442.

I like 004 think Kagawa will play...and maybe on the left wing wouldnt be a bad shout.

Devil Dust.

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 12:36:14
Nani does not have to leave, that is not the answer. Mike Phelan should go and Carlos Queiroz needs to return!

Believable9 Unbelievable0

Oh I get ya...then Nani will somehow stop being so greedy and making the wrong decisions and stop going missing in matches cause its all that Mike Phelans fault....I always thought that too !

Devil Dust.

Agree4 Disagree5

Phelan is hardly standing out though as a manager, what does he actually do. If Phelan had anything about him he would pull these players aside and advise them, or be constantly in Fergusons ear telling him about the youth like any assistant. Yet he is no more than a yes man.

aaallj5

Agree3 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 12:09:32
"MPez if your opinion on that game is that if Nani scores the pen he deserves adulation then its pathetic, he was terrible yet again. So frustrating to watch touches of genius but cannot do the simple thing and slows down our play too much ala Berbatov. No way he starts 2013/2014 with Man Utd
SC"

I never said he deserved praise, just pointing out that based on last nights performance he DEFINATELY didn't deserve the dogs abuse he got.

Sometimes, yes he does deserve it, but not last night as he was probably our best player going forward.

MPez

Believable4 Unbelievable2

Mpez

You did say however he missed cause of "poor luck"

That is not the reason...he missed cause he stuttered up waiting for the keeper to move which he didnt..he then hit it with no power not into the corner and the perfect height for the keeper.

That is not poor luck that is poor technique and execution and nothing to do with luck.

Devil Dust.

Agree7 Disagree1

20 Sep 2012 12:00:36
He plays when he wants. He scores when he wants. He misses when he wants. He gets injured when he wants. He recovers when he wants. He leaves when he wants. He goes where he wants. Who is he?

Believable1 Unbelievable4

Christiano ronaldo?
Q

Agree1 Disagree0

That or the football itself lol
Q

Agree1 Disagree0

You must be talking about the best striker in all of Manchester: Carlos Tevez!
Ezdee

Agree0 Disagree0

Ezdee, what a difference a year makes for an Arsenal fan. A year ago RVP was best striker in the world, now he has joined the biggest club in England he is average ;)

Sydney!

Agree2 Disagree3

20 Sep 2012 11:59:22
I think this is the line-up that should start against Liverpool.

________Lindegaard
Rafa___Ferdy___Vidic___Butt
_____Clevers___Carrick
Valencia___Rooney___Kagawa
_________Van.Persie

With at times Rooney and Kagawa dropping into midfield to boost numbers leaving RVP and Valencia to break. I would go with Lindegaard due to dealing with crosses. I disagree with Shappy about lack of crossing, this sunday there will be sh1tloads of crosses going into Agger and Skrtel and I would want Lindegaard challenging them. If the manager had stuck with DDG all season then I would be happy with that, but because he has dropped him there will be doubt in DDG's mind and Liverpool will take advantage of that. Liverpool are a poor side, but this is their Cup final so they will be playing out of their skins. I think Rooney and Kagawa will interchange at times. I think Rooney will play a part Sunday, hopefully he gets an hour, but if he is sub I think Giggs or Welbeck will start left with Kagawa in the hole.

Sydney!

Believable5 Unbelievable4

Good team Syd! Only change i would want is Evans to start in place of Rio.

You are right about Wazza and Kags interchanging. Rooney can drop deep for the midfield numbers game if need be. But he has to start if he is fit.

Deeps...

Agree3 Disagree0

Sydney,

Unless they play Skrtel and Agger up front, they are not going to be a threat from crosses apart from when they come up for corners so all we need to ensure is we do not give away silly corners. Obviously they may get a couple but we now have Vidic back and either Evans or Ferdinand to mark these two along with Carrick to provide some size.

I'd stick DDG in purely for his distribution.

Liverpool played Johnson at LB last game and although he's a threat going forward, defensively I think he's poor and with Valencia up against him I think we will get success. If DDG get's the ball he's good enough to put it in behind Johnson all the time, Pepe Reina of old style.

If Rooney starts I can see him playing Left to help against Sterling, if not then Welbeck out left.

He could also start Scholes and Carrick with Cleverley out left to try stop Sterlings threat.

Gonna be interesting!

Ports

Agree3 Disagree0

There is a big differance between hitting the ball into the box and crossing the ball. Liverpool do not have a prolific header of the ball upfront nor do thay have a winger or full back who is a world class crosser which you would need if your trying to get the ball to Suarez with Vidic marking him. The only time I see a problem with high balls into the box is from set pieces, but we have good enough CB's to mark the only two players we need to be careful of(Skrtel and Agger).

This is why I feel DDG is a better choice than Lindegaard. As we will have shots to deal with rather than crosses and DDG has.better distribution which will be key if we want to win the game. IMO if Lindegaard starts then we are.playing for a.draw if DDG starts we are playing for a win.

Shappy

Agree6 Disagree0

Ports, Suarez and Sterling will spend more time on the floor than on their feet and at Anfield they will get the decisions. That added to the amount of corners we will concede which is inevitable in a game like this equals tens of crosses going in. Lindegaard is the way to go for this game. I think Buttner would do very well against Sterling, he is quick and not afraid to get stuck in. He will concede freekicks, but that is inevitable at Anfield anyway. Evra will get ruined by Sterling on every occasion. BR will be hoping Evra starts on Sunday.

Sydney!

Agree2 Disagree1

Shappy mate, we will always play for the win at Anfield. We may keep it tight until the last 20 minutes, but we will always go for the win. We have Rio for distribution from the back and we have Cleverley as the constant outball, a player always available to pass to. This season we have struggled from crosses and Lindegaard is far better at dealing with them than DDG is right now.

Sydney!

Agree1 Disagree6

We should play

-------------DDG------------
Raf ----Rio--------Vid----But/Evr

-----Clev --Fletcher--Anderson--

----nani---------------Rooney
-------------RVp----------------

DC_9

Agree1 Disagree1

20 Sep 2012 11:49:57
We are playing Scholes and Carrick in midfield we are getting over run and just backing up to our 18yd line don't worry I have got a perfect sollution. Lets bring on someone who is recovering from a dibilitating illness and hasn't played any kind of serious football for over a year. You couldn't make it up. Shows you exactly what he thinks of Anderson. We have a game against Newcastle next week in the league cup that no one gives a toss about so why didn't he introduce Fletcher then rather than throw him into last nights situation. (he looked like he'd never even see a football before never mind kicked one). I AM KLOOT

Believable9 Unbelievable0

Completely agree,i couldnt believe it when he brought fletch on,the poor lad looked completely lost,silly move which luckily didnt cost us,if we had been 2 up then fine give him a run out but at 1.0 i thought it was a silly move.

phil

Agree8 Disagree0

Completely agree kloot, if he isnt goin to give ando a chance then why is he still at the club, would rather he had fielded a young lad last night than scholes and carrick as we all know they arent the answer in europe

1991devil

Agree7 Disagree0

Kloot. not just anderson but clevs too....

what must they be thinking.... really hope they both start (together) at some point (newcastle) and play like last season..

that will give fergie something to think about....

it was nice for fletch to get a run out but like you said there is a time and place and it was not last night considering how we were playing at that time...

just do not understand some of his decisions at the mo

oxred

Agree6 Disagree0

Spot on RFT, I couldn't agree more. Fletcher should have been a sub for the Newcastle game, not last night. I can only think the manager told him in advance that he will be getting half hour, but due to the way the game went it was only ten minutes.

I did notice last night at the start of the game that Carrick was working faster than usual. It was almost like the manager has spoken to him about his slow tempo and told him to pick it up a bit. It looked strange seeing Carrick play quicker, don't know if anyone else noticed?

Sydney!

Agree8 Disagree0

Ox, Cleverley is clearly being saved for Sunday.

Sydney!

Agree2 Disagree6

We were saying this exact same thing this time last season.

That's the most worrying part. SAF has watched this same, below-par midfield hobble and toil away for a few years. Yet he again refused to strengthen there in the summer.

RED_SKY

Agree4 Disagree0

I noticed that Syd! There was a definate change in tempo to his game. Infact both him and Scholes seemed to be playing more 1 touch football in the first 15 minutes. Its just unfortunate that they didnt keep it up for the rest of the game as we looked lively in the first 15.

TK-Red

Agree0 Disagree0

I don't think SAF said he'll give him
half an hour. SAF has lost the plot
more and more mistakes, slow at making
Tactical decisions. SAF is looking for scapegoats because of it, dga, ando, rafeal,
Etc etc... Have got the bullet for what?
And carrick plays every game. Very poor
player to slow in play and thoughts.

Agree3 Disagree1

TK, I wasn't just seeing things then ;)

Sydney!

Agree0 Disagree1

I noticed that about Carrick too I even said it during the game...he was actually passing the ball forward quickly and with pace and even his goal when has he ever got beyond the ball before ?
but as the game went on he went back to himself slow cumbersome and not sure of himself dropping further and further back.

Devil Dust.

Agree0 Disagree0

Not on this occasion Syd! ;)

TK-Red

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 11:33:02
In the cold light of day and after another dissapointing performance it is clear that regardless of the position they play we need a leader with a voice....can you imagine Nani (amongst others) giving the ball away like he did last night with the llikes of Keane, Robson, Schmeichel or Bruce on the pitch ready to tear lumps out of him for his stupidity. We have no players capable of lifting the tempo, b*ll*cking players for their mistakes and installing passion at the moment.

Irish Red

Believable8 Unbelievable1

Problem is mate those players need to be world class in their positions to have the authority to demand better. Keane, schmiecs, Robson, Neville (maybe not WC ha) all were top very well respected players in the team and positions now our respected players are old and have very little voice between them. We need natural leaders with ability and drive something that we desperately need in the middle!

Jono

Agree2 Disagree0

I agree to an extend Jono but would argue they need to be consistent, passionate and give 100% more than they need to be World Class, all our current crop are quiet men partially due to their age but more so the type of person they are - nobody there to stand up and be counted in games like last night.

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 11:31:10
After abit of time to reflect on last nights performance i've come to the conclusion that no blame can be put on any player on the pitch last night. The blame lays with a man on the bench, and not the one most will be thinking. Although Mike Phelan is obviously not upto it, it is Sir Alex who allows him to remain in the seat on his right hand side.

Tactically we have been awful, no one plays with as much width as we do, as a result we are left open in the middle. Only Real and Bayern play with wingers in europe, but they play with inverted wingers(left footed on the right and right footed on the left) so as to keep the pitch tighter and be less open, it also means your less likely to give away possession. We are so out dated its beyond a joke. We need fresh ideas and fresh impetus. I don't wanna see Sir Alex leave but rather a new assistant come in. But that is unlikely to happen given that Sir Alex has only got a year or two left in him. It just doesn't make sense.

So it looks like we are stuck with this brand of football until Sir Alex retires.

Shappy

Believable12 Unbelievable1

Shappy
c/p agree, with 2 sitting cm's and 2 wingers there is a massive gap in the centre of the pitch between them and our ACM.
we are wide open and allow the other team to play and in the more tactical European games we are struggling.
jred

Agree3 Disagree0

Jred, I agree. I noticed Kagawa down on the right of the field very often last night, even Nani was down there and my question is why? Them being down there left a massive hole in the centre. I think Kagawa needs to stay in the centre and Cleverley needs to be in there too.

Sydney!

Agree1 Disagree1

Unfortunately Shapps I think you are correct.

Too stubborn and not done enough change in the centre over the years. I said this in the summer that without 2 CMers we will be hard pushed to change system as the CMers we have are not good enought o adapt and play the 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 without the over exposure.

Loot at Madrid and Bayern teams. Two you have highlighted as others who have real wide men still in their teams then compare our CM to theirs.

Real: Alonso, Khedira, Essien, Modric.

Bayern: Martinez, Bastian, Kroos, Gustavo.

Us: Carrick, Scholes, Ando, Cleverly.

Its almost laughable that we have slipped so far behind teams both tactically and personnel wise. We were second best 4 years ago then Ronnie went and Tevez fell out then Berba never worked. We have spent so much time replacing other individuals that our CM both for starting 11 and squad players are so weak compared to others its frightening.

People are going on about we need to keep Nani as he is a match winner, or Rooney or RVP but if we played well and dominated CM the dependancy of us on individuals winning games would drop massively. We could ill afford to slip any further behind but after no reinforcement again in CM I feel we have slipped another peg down the ladder. We can add all the players we want to the wide and forward positions but if our CM cannot retain under pressure, move and create space and pass accurately our wide and forward men are made redundant as their primary role is effected having to cover into deeper positions to help.

It gets even worse when we play 4-4-1-1 as the space required to make this work goes against us when we lose possession. I still laugh at SAF comments of trying to follow Barca's lead as how many years ago was that?

We are still waiting, whilst getting worse!

Jono

Agree4 Disagree0

Syd
i think our holding 2 are playing 2 deep.
also if we are going to make this system work nani and valencia need to come in off the touch line a bit more so that when we have the ball its a tight front 3.
a bit like pedro and villa play for barce.

i'm not sure what was going on in nani head last night the first half in particular he was all over the place.
a lot has been blamed on the manager tactical wise but the players also have a responsibility to,
jred

Agree1 Disagree1

Jred, exactly right about the wingers. This why I would go for a different formation completely. It would mean putting more players in midfield and being able to keep Valencia in the team.

----------Lindegaard----------
------Ferdy-------Vidic-------
TonyV------Carrick-------Butts
-----Clevers-------Scholes----
------------Kagawa-----------
-----V.Persie-------Rooney----

Could this not be the answer? For now?

Sydney!

Agree1 Disagree1

I think that could be the way forward with this team, what I feel is needed to make this formation very strong is if we could get a DM to to play where Carrick is and maybe a Box to box midfielder to add some dynamisim in certain games. Maybe Sandro or Capoue for DM and maybe have a gamble for a box to box player with someone like Hector Herrera.

_______________DDG
_______Smalling__Vidic
Rafael_________________Buttner
___________Sandro
____Cleverley____Herrera
___________Kagawa
____Rooney_____RVP


Shappy

Agree2 Disagree0

Shapps, even Jones instead of Carrick and Anderson/Powell instead of Scholes.

Sydney!

Agree0 Disagree1

I think carrick is a better player than both sandro and jones
jred

Agree0 Disagree0

Carrick is a better passer and probably a better all round player but his game isn't about shielding the back four, he is a deeplying playmaker not a true defensive midfielder. For that role I think a DM is more what we need thus i've put Sandro there as that is what he is. If you think of the great AC Milan midfield of a few years ago, you had Gattuso as the destroyer and defensive shield, Pirlo as the deeplying playmaker and Kaka as the AM. Carrick is more like Pirlo when what we need is a Gattuso. For me Sandro is a more cultured Gattuso thats why he would work well.

Shappy

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 10:36:35
what was the most worrying point yesterday?
I am really shocked and pissed by SAF!
He obviously completely lost the plot, seems he doesn't even talk tactics anymore at all to the team.

He confessed to not talking before the game to the players who should take penalties!
What's wrong here?

Every team has a clear order of takers for standard situations.

Do we have a plan for corners?
Do we have a plan for free-kicks?

I doubt it, since we don't even have a plan for simplest of tasks, spot kicks!

Ridiculous!


Jonny8

Believable8 Unbelievable1

20 Sep 2012 10:27:47
anyone else think rafael contributed more on the right than our wingers..
he's skillfull quick, and has a good cross and shot, why not try him there?

Believable5 Unbelievable0

Yet everytime someone puts up a team with 3cbs and wing-backs they put val in there.....

raf everytime

Agree3 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 10:03:43
Jus to make people smile :) who thinks Kagawa looks like teddy from hangover 2? Lol

Big Mac

Believable8 Unbelievable0

20 Sep 2012 10:02:09
Right. First champs league game, 3pts, that's the most important thing.

But on the flipside, we were dismal. YET AGAIN. Can anyone please remind me, when we last played impressively and won impressively, in Europe?

This is becoming seriously worrying. We looked like we had no clue half the time in the final third, as per usual. We could've been 3-4 goals up by 60mins, yet we limp away with a 1-0 victory that's hardly gonna make the big guns nervous.

Do you really fancy us in Hell's Kitchen? Luckily, we've got a weak group and should be able to get through but the minute we meet a class team, we are DONE. Unless we really buck up our ideas.

Plus points:
- DDG back, without a thing to do but staying alert to make a great double save - come on SAF, this is our number 1 - treat him like one.

- Fletcher - glad to see him well but sorry, it felt like a token gesture to me; he's got a long way to go and personally, I don't think he'll get there.

- Rafael wasn't bad, IMO.

- Evans did alright.

Not confident for Anfield, I never am, they're a poor team who raises the game when it matters most to them - ie - when the big boys come to town.

RED_SKY

Believable5 Unbelievable0

The last time we played to our best in europe was against arsenal away in 08/09.

how i miss those days.

JK92

Agree6 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 09:46:56
I thought nani had an alright game,i thought rvp,tony v were far worse,why are we still playing with wingers in the traditional sense?,we need that midfielder to run from deep as the ginger prince was floundering a bit last night,it looked a bit disjointed.
Mick the red fireman.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

20 Sep 2012 09:38:07
First post, need to get this off my chest. Midfield remains our biggest issue, we need a Yaya Toure type of player, I would invest in Fellaini! Fergi - please, please, please rest Evra, he is a liability, please, please, please sell Nani he is a passenger. Toni needs to work harder on his crossing, Nemaja and Jonny need game time, Shinji will only get better and if we feed RVP we will score more goals.

This is a man united!

Believable7 Unbelievable4

20 Sep 2012 08:44:26
I bet City fans just love Aguero's quotes about Real...I mean we all new it, but for him to actually come out and say it...brilliant.

"I had no option but to join City"

MPez

Believable13 Unbelievable3

Why are you mentioning them on here ? Its the united site not city.

Agree3 Disagree1

20 Sep 2012 08:42:19
CL Game 1 Galatasaray

One way to sum up the game, "hand of God victory" for us even though we had more scoring chances on offer but the same old story of miss hits ! This game could have gone any way. Only three players worth mentioning in the game, for their performances Kagawa, Vidic and De Gea not overwhelming but more than average, better than the rest (average or below).

Again our midfield was at odds most of the time, great percentage of miss-passes and lack of ball holding ability which are the basics of good football, which our coaches should take a very hard look at if our performances have to improve. The other deficiency was our off the ball movement, which was as good as non-existent. If we look at Barca, it is the movement off the ball into open spaces that leads to their ever so dominating possession and I am sure Kagawa would thrive in such good off the ball movement with his one touch assists, like the one that led to the goal. Except for Chicha none of the rest make any attempt to be in open spaces to receive passes at crucial times, most of them just don't seem to have the ability to shake off their markers. Our crosses from both wings were awful last night, the worst I have seen of them for a long time.

I hope we get to see Agnelo Henriquez in the Cup game against NCU, his off the ball movement is awesome and finishing even better, he has two great feet and good in the air and speed as well. He will be a great asset to MU in a year or two.

As emphasized by a lot of fans on this forum, our CM and left wing certainly need reinforcement, I think there is no doubt Buttner could be used as left wing if we cannot get James Rodrigues but we need at least two in CM (Isco and Cirigliano would be ideal) to hold on to the ball and pass effectively or else last year's history will repeat itself all over again.
Our defense too looked out of place at times, I know our injuries in that department are worrisome and Vida is just getting back into the grove. A good young CB could solve this headache; I would any time prefer Dede or Papadopolous both are young and monsters.

Lastly De Gea should certainly be our No. 1 Keeper, he is second to none in shot stopping ability, I will never forget his two saves, 1) Mata's free kick 2) Lorente's volley across the goal. His only problem are the aerial balls from the wings and set-pieces, that he has to work on, if he overcomes that aspect he will be the best in the world.

After last night I am not very excited with the prospect of facing LFC in their den, where they are always at their best against us no matter how awful their team is, only hope I am wrong and we get one over them. All the best Red Devils ! - Fred

Believable5 Unbelievable1

20 Sep 2012 08:20:33
Am I the only one that thought Nani had agood game? I thought he made the right decision every time, apart from the penalty and dive, which was still not as bad as tonis btw. Nanis interplay with kagawa at times was awesome. In the first 20 mins I think we all thought we would ease through this game with some beautiful football. What I've been noticing more and more is how many gaps have started to appear in our defence and midfield, these were only really plugged by a very rusty Fletcher, with could give us hope for the future if he can get match fit. I've not really heard anyone praise Carrick as of yet, he was very good in the first half and took his goal very well, definitely played better than scholes

Fagan

Believable6 Unbelievable4

Nani played well! He missed the penalty, iys okay! People are just mean and they really watch the game waiting on Nani to make a mistake or something. Valencia had a bery poor game and nobody says nothing.

Nick86

Agree3 Disagree1

Fagan

IMO Carrick is the most underrated player in our team. He never ever gets adequate praise. If he is unspectacular, for most on here "He is such a bore", "He slows our game down", "What is he doing in the team". No one cares to look at the number of interceptions he makes or all the tidying up or helping the defence out. A lot of people rate people based on their flair. That is IMO Sad!

Deeps...

Agree0 Disagree1

20 Sep 2012 08:18:36
January transfers - INS .....- Hector Herrera......,Maroune Fellaini .....,Ogbonna.......,Isco - OUT....- Nani ......,Anderson ......,Macheda......,Bebe

Believable3 Unbelievable1

Change Fellaini for Sandro or Capoue and i'd be very happy.

Shappy

Agree4 Disagree1

20 Sep 2012 07:14:34
Am I the only one that thought the only time Valencia was good and beat his man last night was when he cut inside a took a more central attacking line? I honestly think the days of conventional wingers are gone and should be looking at more fluid front three...we have good wingbacks in Rafael and Buttner. They're both fit and have no trouble racing up and down their wings for 90 minutes. If our midfield does it's job to break up counter attacks, we shouldn't be caught (as we were last night) with a 2 on 1 situation down the wings. I honestly think we need to look at a variation on the 4-3-3...something like this maybe....

--------De Gea-------
Rafael-Vidic-Evans-Buttner
----Carrick---Scholes----
---------Kagawa-------
--Valencia-RVP-Welbeck--

Similar to the 4-2-1-3 we used in the first game, but with Valencia and Welbeck as more attacking midfielders than wingers. Banter please!

Andy!

Believable2 Unbelievable1

Did you not watch last night... too slow and no drive in the middle of the park..

we do not have a world class dm or box to box mid-fielder so make do with what we have and try and play a higher tempo game and attack...

fergie will not play it but this would be our best team.. and I will stick to it...


________ De Gea

Raf _ Vidic _ Smalling _ Buttner

__ Anderson _ Cleverley

_ Nani _ Rooney _ Kagawa

________ Van Persie

Oxred

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 06:15:49
Although we did play pathetic last night, I thought Vidic was absolutely immense.He looked back to his best and was solid last night.To be honest Evans didn't look bad either.

kdevil10

Believable0 Unbelievable1

20 Sep 2012 02:59:40
"Still think Nani is good Percy? He is useless I have seen better Sunday leauge players.

Caolán."

Everyone just stop and think about this statement for a moment. Think about how utterly absurd it is. Debating over team selection, players' relative merits etc is one thing, but nonsense is another.

WizardOzmand

Believable1 Unbelievable2

20 Sep 2012 02:41:16
Jake F, so you think Hernandez should be sold think you need to get a grip mate. A lot of the little peas' work goes unnoticed he makes very intelligent runs that take away defenders and allows space for other players. If you don't understand what he does you shouldn't comment on him you say he only scores tap ins. Did you ever stop to think why he is always in position to score them? He is a hard worker and you can't expect him to come on with 10 minutes left and score a hat trick. You defend Nani yet if he put away the penalty the game would have been less edgy and players wouldn't have been playing nervous football.
I thought early on United looked very dangerous and they were working hard to get the ball back. That disappeared and the speed of the game dropped which allowed Galatasary more of the ball. People defending Nani do you not get tired really? He was supposed to be on the left and spent maybe a third of the game there. This meant RVP was forced out wide and even had to track back for Nani. Yes I want him sold but I would give credit where it's due and a few good passes and corners that beat the first man doesn't make him star man for me. Valencia wasn't at his best but believe it or not a few of his overhit crosses could have been kept alive if Nani was in HIS position on the left. Evra made a few bad passes but seemed to be back defending more than usual just maybe Buttner has him worried. Evans made a very exciting burst out of the back can't remember the last time I've seen him do that. Vidic is getting back his physical presence and is almost back to being the bully in the back. Rafael was a little quieter than usual but was always willing to help out in attack and can't remember any attacks of note coming from his side. De Gea was amazing when called upon surely has to be one of the best shot stoppers around right now. Question isn't VDS an ambassador for United couldn't he give him some help in commanding his area? Personaly I think he needs to bulk up a little so he can go in and clean out everything when crosses come in. Kagawa looks an exciting player think the more everyone gets used to playing with him the more he will shine. His pass to Carrick for the goal was excellent and he shows great control in tight spaces. RVP wasn't involved as much whether that was due to covering for Nani or just a quiet game he can still score from nothing. Carrick and Scholes were not spectacular by any means they did a job tonight though. Carrick got the important/only goal and showed great composure to round the keeper.
People can talk about our midfield being soft but I believe the key to stopping us being overrun is keeping the opposition on the back foot. Not giving up possesion so easily and threatening to score at every opportunity. It's quite hard to counter when they need 10 men behind the ball to contain us. I saw glimpses of great attacking football today and the good news is it can only get better.
Hate him or love him if Rooney was on the pitch Nani wouldn't have even touched the ball for the penalty.

Darren-Bermuda

Believable2 Unbelievable0

20 Sep 2012 02:18:25
Trust me, with the quality of midfield, we are going to tear up by Lpool this weekend. Have you ever seen how they torture City weeks ago at Anfield? We will really need to be lucky (like last night) to take points away, frankly speaking. Heaven Knows what was Furgy thinking, not many people regard that it will definitely improve soon now after 5 games of continuously terrible midfield performance.

Believable4 Unbelievable3

20 Sep 2012 01:52:16
first off id like to say im happy for the 3 points...thats huge and a great start for united even by the slimmest of margins. its going to take some time for our squad to adjust to plays coming in for euro matches...its never the same squad as a league match its takes time to adjust. i agree that we should have done better and capitalized on a few opportunities but Galatasaray is a good team and that can only build our confidence. there is a good squad and now that Braga lost the chances of united exiting in the group stage is slim to none. lets be happy with the result, carrick scoring could be a huge boost for him in the league now also..he just needed that boost of confidence. i love where we are at right now and we are getting into the position to take over. Wazza is coming back sooner then expected and everyone is getting healthy, minus phil jones (it'd be great to have it now) but having him healthy later is the season could be even better when every other team could be suffering. Lads we got lots to be happy about and to look forward to, this is only the beginning SAF has never disappointed and united is as strong as ever (maybe not ever but who is?)

Believable0 Unbelievable1

20 Sep 2012 00:24:29
I felt like i'd throw up watching our game tonight. We were so wasteful with chances and our crosses from flanks were awful lot. Our midfield was overrun by our opponents. I think we still need to beef up our midfield i don't know if you'll agree with me. Paul Scholes is our tallisman but due to his age he doesn't seem to match a physical side/midfield, and today's performance was very unlike him. Nani is very inconsistent and can dissapoint most time, he's good sometimes but i don't see him reaching his full potential. Vidic is losing pace and his dragon-like form since coming back from injury. Evra tried but should be replaced by our strong and attacking Buttner who exerts intimidating presence when on the run. Rafael is cool...Dea Gae proved his competence and ability but our overall display was so poor. Don't we have a good penalty taker? SAF should please do something about that. If we continue in this form we should forget about reaching quarter final if we are even lucky to get through the group stage.

But what is really wrong with our beloved team? Does it mean SAF now lacks ambition and needs replacing? Well i doubt it! This isn't the Manchester United i used to know, a great club that opponents dreaded when hearing and meeting...a team that used to be a terror to opponents and now the reverse is the case. We definitely need some signing in January still cos, this very squad isn't okay to be frank and you have to agree with me on that... clashing with a team like Barcelona who are the masters of possession and trickery would be a public show/disgrace of us; and we're still not as strong as Real Madrid. A quality midfielder who can control the midfield with composure andd creativity is what we need now cos when you deny your opponents possession there is 80 percent chance of depriving them of chances to score. I think the defence will be okay when Jones and Smalling are back. Manchester United 4 life!

SAMFORD01

Believable4 Unbelievable2

I agree and believe a quarter final place is the best we will do this year. Genarally the standard of play in Europe is higher and not too many easy games out there. As a united fan we have gotten used to romping teams at home but evident by all the matches, this is not the case anymore. My pick to win it all is Bayern Munich as they have all the parts that you need to win the trophy. Shahram

Agree0 Disagree1

The problem with our team (or our midfield, which let's face it, is our biggest problem) is that SAF has allowed it to stagnate.

Instead of introducing new, hungry talent to strengthen, he's relied on the same four or five players who are getting older and slower as the years tick by.

Have to laugh at those fans who, in August, claimed we had a good enough squad to challenge for all 4 trophies this year.

Still think that boys?

There's a lot of Prem teams with stronger central midfields than us - don't get me started on Europe!

RED_SKY

Agree2 Disagree0

20 Sep 2012 00:24:10
Nani is better than Valencia, nani was our only attacking threat tonight, Valencia is only good at tracking back and puts a decent cross in every now and again, tonight not once, his first touch under pressure is woeful, not really got any skill just speed, can only knock it past a defender and sprint onto it if theres space, galatasaray were rubbish and he should of ruined them. Carrick scored a decent goal but he is a very weak central midfield player, negative tactics all the time. We won't win anything this year guys, not been convincing once this season yet, god help us when we play a good team in Europe

Tye Ford Mondeo

Believable6 Unbelievable6

Be patient ... this team needs to gel. Celebrate the fact that we have 3 points. The performance may not have been great but give the boys a chance. The positives are that we'll have Rio, Buttner, Ando, Clevs, Wazza, Powell, Giggsy and Young all fit and fresh for Liverpool on Sunday if we need them and the competition for places in the team is fierce. Both league PL and CL tables look ok. Relax and have faith .... the good performances will come .....
PerthDave

Agree7 Disagree7

Sadly mate, this isn't true.

Come Sunday, Carrick and Scholes or Giggs will start in the centre and Clev might get 20mins off the bench (I still don't rate Clev as the future of our midfield though).

We'll get over-run. Hopefully our defence/GK have a blinder, coz we're gonna need them on Sunday.

RED_SKY

Agree1 Disagree0