Manchester United Banter Archive December 21 2017

21 Dec 2017 18:04:44
Regardless of what happens in Jan and if we do actually sign any body, I'd go get TFM and Pereira back and start using Tuanzebe more too, just to freshen us up a bit For a good month or so, we have been flat and if we are honest, getting a bit lucky with the results, or just scraping through. Obviously last night was horrendous, but it's been coming hasn't it, so have to try something else, otherwise we will just be carrying on and it's getting a bit boring every week. Surely we can do better than we are currently. Btw I'm more on about performances, rather than where we are in the league or cups etc and I'm definitely not on Mourinho's back. Just want to be entertained and look forward to our games, like at the start of the season. Don't think it's too much to ask.

21 Dec 2017 21:05:24
It would be nice to see them 3 get a chance.

21 Dec 2017 15:26:44
On this day 2008 we won the club world cup. In the squad that day we had these players available to the manager:

VDS, Neville, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Rafael, Evans, Carrick, Scholes, Fletcher, Anderson, Giggs, Park, Ronaldo, Nani, Berbatov, Rooney and Tevez.

Our squad last night was:

Romero, Darmian, Lindelof, Rojo, Shaw, McTominay, Blind, Pogba, Rashford, Ibrahimovic, Martial, Smalling, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Lukaku, Herrera, Lingard, J. Pereira.

Even if we add the players we were missing last night such as DDG, Bailly, Jones, Valencia, Young, Matic and Fellaini.

Do we still think that the drop off in what the team is achieving is just down to the manager?

21 Dec 2017 16:20:33
Have a look at the squad fergy won the title with, by 11 points in his last season .

21 Dec 2017 16:36:30
That was probably one of Sir Alex's greatest feats to be honest. I think we were also aided by a real lack of top quality opposition. Compare that to now where City have a great team, Chelsea are defending champions, Arsenal and Liverpool have much better teams than they had 5 years ago and Spurs have come out of nowhere to a great young side.

21 Dec 2017 17:00:28
Shaps yep and we are above them all bar city and probably still only in 3rd gear at the moment.

21 Dec 2017 18:17:27
Interesting talking about SAF’s last season, which saw awful but winning football.

The point people ignore is momentum, we had it in spades, belief we couldn’t be beaten and would win. Teams feared us. All that ended when we appointed SAF’s successor, we lost that fear factor immediately and the squad became what it really was, generally ordinary. Prior to that we lost great players and didn’t replace them, there is a long list but the momentum kept us going.

21 Dec 2017 20:54:37
I think your spot on there Red man. How many games did Sir Alex win in the pre match press conference?

We had a manager with a winning pedigree and track record. And of doing it with us.

Sir Alex warned against making sweeping changes to Moyes when he took over. Yet Moyes removed many of the coaching staff and tried to changes things too quickly, the team lost its momentum and belief. Others teams no longer feared us and the team was exposed as average with a few aging greats with no top tier young talent coming through and certainly no top class players in their prime bar maybe Carrick.

21 Dec 2017 21:09:06
I'm only surprised that people where surprised.
Fergy leaving was always going to be a major issue.

21 Dec 2017 21:46:06
Jred

We didn’t learn from Busby, you know how many times I posted on here about the transition. It was so obvious and the club thought issues would be allayed by giving a 6 year contract.

21 Dec 2017 23:19:02
Red man
Any one would of struggled after fergy imo so this we never learnt after busby stuff is . imo .
It's a different world and club now .
Fergy has said pep was his choice but wasn't available ancelotti, Jose klopp either didn't want the job or where not available .
in fact he said moyes was 6th or 7th choice .

No surprise really, who would want to follow fergy .
Fergy leaving was always going to be huge and a very difficult period .
That's football.

22 Dec 2017 06:53:44
No point in going over it but Moyes should have been a lot further down than 6th, more like 506th and there was no transition plan. No, let someone work alongside SAF or ensure club stability by keeping the backroom staff, we were amateur. It’s done now but it is glib to say it was always going to be a problem. A major corporate allowing its two most senior vital people go at the same time, allowing removal key support staff is a recipe for disaster and that’s what we got. It was going to be difficult but the club handled it arrogantly and appallingly. If you say no surprise really then why was it a surprise to the club. It was pathetic and is a significant reason as to why we have struggled.

22 Dec 2017 09:43:52
Redman
Like I say I don't think it was a massive surprise, 90% of people knew replacing fergy was going to be huge .
What top coach is going to work alongside fergy?
What top coach wouldn't want his own backroom staff?
If gill wanted to go and decides to step down that's his call .

It's easy to say after the event we should of done x y or z but 1. You don't know if that was even possible and 2 if it would of worked .

Replacing fergy was nigh on impossible and was always going to difficult . We have seen that, I'm amazed people are surprised.

22 Dec 2017 15:22:35
I was saying it before the event Jred, loudly and on here.

22 Dec 2017 15:55:57
Redman
Saying what? That we would struggle after fergy .
Of course we would most accept that others seem to think we should of cloned fergy and everything was going to carry on as normal.

22 Dec 2017 16:49:22
No I said we needed to plan the transition and have learnt from what happened with Busby, because I was around when that disaster happened. I also said we needed to appoint someone with the level of gravitas, who would immediately command respect and should have learnt from the appointment of Wilf McGuiness.

The point I made on here a few times was that it wasn’t going to carry on as usual, that the change was seismic and we need to plan the transition p. We didn’t yet some said we had just won the league by 11 points so we were safe.

22 Dec 2017 17:13:46
Redman
Like who? It's been done to death but there wasn't really that many options at the time .
Fergy covered it in his book, no surprise really the next manager after fergy was taking the impossible job .

Don't forget you where all for lvg and look how that turned out . So it's maybe not as simple as you think .
By the way fergy says lvg was one of the coaches they wanted but had committed to Holland and the ed said the plan was to replace lvg with allegri once he had seen his 3 year contract out . So there was a plan.

It never worked out but that's football nothing is a sure thing.

22 Dec 2017 17:40:26
Disaster, Red Man? Seriously. I've told you a million times about using hyperbole!

22 Dec 2017 18:11:34
Jred
I was not all for LvG, how many times, when Moyes left I advocated Klopp. Once lvg was appointed I said it should lead to Pep, it didn’t so Jose was the right choice. I didn't agree with lvg but hoped there was a plan leading to Pep. There wasn’t and I was none too happy .
Stevie- Disaster was finishing 7th and losing our aura.

22 Dec 2017 18:28:10
Red man
We lost our aura when fergy left.
Pretty obvious pep didn't want United.
He has said himself he couldn't turn down the chance to manage Munich.
And who can blame him huge club Munich.
There was a plan, it was to lead to allgeri another top manager doing a great job at juventus .
Klopp hasn't exactly won loads with the scouse .
So again it's maybe not as easy as you seem to think it is.

22 Dec 2017 18:30:53
Oh and disaster after Busby was relegation, which I can tell you was painful.

22 Dec 2017 19:11:50
One of the biggest clubs in the world, up there with Munich, Real and Barcelona were so struggling to appoint a manager, so desperate, so scraping the barrel the major plan they had years to fine tune meant they turned to Moyes as the only option. The plan of course was to appoint Allegri, that’s why they gave Moyes a six year contract, totally logical. I wish I lived on the planet you are on.

21 Dec 2017 10:28:37
I thought Lukaku looked quite sharp last night, Pogba was almost playing the game by himself closely followed by McTominay. How Darmian still gets a game is beyond me. Our pressing game is poor, No chasers with real pace nd energy especially in midfield - need a Kante style player who will hunt for the ball. Defenders bottling it and pumping the ball upfield, how often do you lump the ball forward and actually keep the ball? Absolutely ridiculous!

We are in dire need of world class players, energetic players that just run, run and run some more.

21 Dec 2017 11:37:43
The pace at which we play games s like watching something from the 80s. All other top teams press or at least close down. The one game we pressed in against Arsenal we score 2 goals then Jose resorts back to sitting deep and we struggle. The movement and retention of most players especially martial and rash is very poor carrying both of them in one game is a big ask.

21 Dec 2017 09:42:59
To be fair I thought Bristol City had a good game plan and they executed it excellently. Hat's off to them, they deserve to be in the semi final, I sincerely hope they win it.

I think Jose in this instance didn't show enough respect to a team that is doing very well in the championship this season and a team that had already taken three premier league scalps in the cup this season. That said, I do think this was a game we should be looking to rotate the squad around in. It was a league cup game against lower league opposition just before the Christmas rush. However, I think it highlights the poor quality we have in depth. Blind looked poor in midfield, even with a three man midfield. McTominay looked good at times but is clearly not ready to be relied on. Pogba tried to do too much. Zlatan sadly looked miles off the pace, surely either retirement or MLS beacons in the summer. Shaw looked half decent in defence and Rojo didn't do too much wrong. Lindelof looked like he did in his first couple of games, he seems to struggle when teams are physical and in your face. That is not a good sign considering the EPL is probably the most physical in your face top class league in europe. Darmian was very poor, he won't be here by the start of next season. I thought Rashford probably had his worst game for us last night. He tried too much and hardly any of it worked out.
We played like a bunch of strangers, no one seemed able to get their weight of pass right, our movement was very disjointed and our finishing was abysmal. We had 19 shots on goal last night, with only 4 on target, 3 of which came from Lukaku after he came on in the 60th minute.

That can happen when you don't rotate regularly, then make wholesale changes. So many of the team were clearly rusty last night. Shaw and Rojo haven't played much due to injury, Pogba was coming back after a three game ban, Romero, Blind, Lindelof, Darmian and McTominay have all only played a few games each in three months. Sir Alex was the master at just tinkering slightly every game, just change one person for a game or two, so they could blow out the cobwebs and it keeps them happy and motivated, then when injuries hit they are hungry, motivated and ready. Jose does tend to stick more closely to his first choice players with little rotation unless forced.

Hopefully we can use this disappointment as a springboard to kick start our season. Although we are getting results, and winning some games 3 or 4-0. It feels like we have been stuck in third gear, or that we are playing with the handbrake on. let's hope last night is the kick up the backside we need.

{Ed025's Note - really good post that shappy mate..

21 Dec 2017 10:25:45
Great post young shappy.

21 Dec 2017 17:26:04
Good post, Shaps. I'm not Zlatan's biggest fan, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on his first start for 8 months. Could be the end for him, or the beginning of the end, but I'd like to see him in a couple of more games just to make sure.

21 Dec 2017 00:12:41
LVG or Bilic for Swansea?
I'd think they're better off with Bilic. LVG will be a guaranteed relegation. With Bilic there's a better expectation of at least a fight. Besides our frd LVG would prefer a big club - maybe City? 🤣🤣🤣.

21 Dec 2017 00:24:09
Tony pulis.

21 Dec 2017 02:01:33
Has Pulis written all over it for me as well.

21 Dec 2017 04:32:35
Yeah I agree with you guys. Some media trying to stir - as usual 😂.

21 Dec 2017 05:18:21
Cardiff boy is Pulis but I tend to agree, seems a good fit, depends if he thinks Swans have it in them. Alright for the old boys innit, Sam, Pards, Woy all hang about and get a job, what about some talented managers in lower leagues getting a chance? Too much at stake for the risk I suppose.

21 Dec 2017 06:46:52
Where are the give it to Giggs brigade?

21 Dec 2017 08:04:12
Give it to giggs till the end of season.

21 Dec 2017 09:44:57
I think Giggs is better suited to the Wales job. I would love to see LVG back in the EPL for nothing more than his press conferences. lol.

21 Dec 2017 11:13:09
Giggs just said categorically NO to it just now.

21 Dec 2017 12:54:04
Giggs likes to say 'No' before any clubs can say 'No' to him. Great player but has yet to understand the real route he needs to take to get into management.
Step down into Championship and prove you have leadership skills, it won't be easy and you will have your ups and downs but it will at least give clubs a view on your management ability, style and culture you want to bring in.
Then either get them into the PL or a lower end club will take a punt on you. at the moment it is too risky.

21 Dec 2017 14:54:32
I think he’s waiting for Salford to get into the premier league and then he will give him self the job.

21 Dec 2017 19:28:50
This is a man utd page isn't that right ed.

{Ed033's Note - correct