Manchester United Banter Archive January 21 2014

21 Jan 2014 22:46:58
PS: His reasoning was that Mata needs to move to keep his place in the Spanish squad, and Chelsea have now said that he can if the right offer comes in. Also, Chelsea have played United twice already, and United with Mata will be a stronger outfit vs the other title contenders we are yet to play.

I don't quite understand that theory, sure this year maybe it'll help and we may be more likely to cause City and Arsenal to drop points with Mata, but what about all the other seasons? Is he implying Mourinho has written us off forever or something? His reasoning isn't the best lol.

Can anyone explain that to me, eds, posters?

Btw guys, in case you're confused - this was supposed to be in reply to my post on the Rumour page regarding what Balague said about Mata to United. :)

I thought us taking Mata on loan for the rest of the season was the more likely option at the start of the window if I'm honest. If we can get him on a permanent deal however - it is Chelsea's loss and I can't help but feel they will come to regret allowing him to move to United somewhere down the line!

21 Jan 2014 22:55:46
Arsenal fan here. Not here to get a bad reaction from you lot.

Wanted to know what the feeling is around old Trafford, it's obviously not a good time for you, but wanted to know if you think you will bring it back and get top 4?

What do you think moyes needs to do?

Is fergie being at the home games a hindrance?

What do you thing needs to happen in the next few markets?

What I think: 4th isn't out of reach but looks unlikely right now (things can chance awfully quick though.) I think moyes needs a clear out, I've said this before when fergie was in charge and it's become more clear now moyes is at the helm.

SAF being at home games shouldn't matter, but does it? Moyes must be a bit intimidated, but let's not forget he's an extremely experienced manager for his age and united aren't ones to hire and fire like abramovic (although not a massive trophy winner, but was also on limited funds at Everton.)

In the next few markets, not a massive overhaul is needed right away, look at Özil, he's lifted the whole team, that's all it needs sometimes, but over the next few windows I think most of the midfield needs to be changed, left back isn't good enough and the wingers aren't even nearly good enough.

Sorry about the long post, would love to hear you're views and I'm not meaning to p**s anyone off. Think it's always easier looking in from the outside.

Cheers guys, not the best of luck for the season hopefully. (That's the lonely one I meant I swear ;).

Akie, most united fans, especially ones who tend to be a wee bit diplomatic, are still 50-50 about Moyes

Personally I was 60-40 when he first came. But his over reliance on wing play and crossing even though it doesn't seem to work didn't do him much good, and even some pro moyes fans have started to make their concerns clear. I think the majority are willing to give him a fair chance and let him bring his own players before writing him off.

Fergie watching games from the stands has no bearing on the results imo.

As for a top 4 finish, with a fit Rooney, and a fired up Van Persie papering over the cracks, we're certainly capable of gathering some momentum and even finishing top 3 with the right reinforcements ( 2 or 3 decent players )

I find myself agreeing with Mick again this eve, good work sir! Although on the 4th spot - I think we are certainly capable but it will be a struggle bearing in mind we need to catch 3 teams. Fingers crossed from me!

Great minds think alike ;)

I think thirds to much of all tall order now to be honest, unless one breaks down. (Usually us)

A Lot depends on if we sign a LB and a CM this window, I rate Mata and he will create more for us, Mata alone would not get us top 4. Januzaj, Rooney, Mata playing behind RVP is certainly a step up though without reinforcements further back we will still leak too many goals.

21 Jan 2014 22:37:52
Hey guys arsenal fan here in peace,
I just wanted to know your guys opinion on being linked with Juan mata. In my opinion he is top quality but to be honest I don't think he is a player that you really need. I always thought you needed a box to box player like gundogan, vidal, pogba or cabye. What are your thoughts?

If there is no way of signing any of the players you mention during this window then I think we should go for Mata now - especially if Rooney will be leaving in the summer (the club should know this by now).

If there is a chance of us signing Vidal et al then we should put all of our efforts in to those deals. Either way we need to bring some quality in during this window if we're to secure a top four finish.

We do need a box to box midfielder but as moyes keeps saying he thinks that player or players will be arriving in the summer. If we could get mata as well as a box to box midfielder and a left back and centre back for 100-120 million we would be in an extremely strong position going into next season.

Thoughts, at the moment we need a lot. that's not only incomings either, outgoings too. I think i'll agree with Ed002 when I say its a transitional period of a few transfer windows.

Mata would clearly improve almost any squad, whether he fits our style of play or not is yet to be seen. Moyes has yet to mark his stamp on this team, as he can only do limited things with players he was provided with. Once he brings his own players in, i'm sure that will change.

As for now, I'd agree with you, a box to box type player is needed more than Mata, but when the opportunity is there for a player of his calibre, bearing in mind the football Moyes knows he will want to play and whether Mata will fit the bill. Why not?

We didn't need Van Persie either.

What united need are a solid CB, a quick and levelled LB, a solid box to box player and a creative central attacker (like mata) so yes i'd say mata will be a great signing if it goes through.

Still not sure we will sign Mata, but if we can of course we should.
Mata is a good enough player to build a team around.
Yes we need other players for other positions but he is too good a player to miss out on.

21 Jan 2014 18:37:25
Hi all,
Eds you mentioned a while ago that you expected at least one new signing this window. The impression I get from all the media at the moment is that this is likely to be Mata. Do you agree with me or do you think someone like Vidal is more likely?
Many thanks,

{Ed002's Note - I am not going to be drawn in to your fantasy football game. I can tell you about interest. I don't have a crystal ball}

Ok thanks, I guess.
Anything you can offer is appreciated I assure you.

21 Jan 2014 10:15:49
Ed02; probably been asked countless times already this morning, but United are obviously interested in Mata, will Chelsea sell to them if they offer what Chelsea deem to be acceptable?

{Ed002's Note - If the player wishes to lave and an acceptable offer is made, sure.}

21 Jan 2014 21:31:19
I saw someone further down the page saying that Johnny Evans will be the main man of our defence for years to come! I don't think he's ever been good enough for our team and he's never shown anything to prove me wrong. He lacks the positioning and decision making to really become a top player at the big clubs!

Fredo,

Are you posting on here and the Chelsea page and claiming to be a supporter of both teams?

Evans splits opinions.

I believe he's a very reliable and capable defender but he can't reach his full potential when he's playing with a different partner every couple of games.

I support United I just thought I'd try and wind them up really

Mick,

I just wish we could play the same team for at least 2 games in a row!

I'm with Mick on this one, always liked Evans and thought, had vidic not got his bad injury, they could have formed a really strong partnership over time.

Unfortunately, the many injuries and re-shuffling in defence has helped none of our cb's progress recently.

Fredo,
Are u a liverpool fan or troll because i'm sure I remember a post few days back claiming supporting united is tough and how good Merseyside is looking, another wind up? Hmm I have my suspicions, bas!cs is that u?

CTR that was just a sarcastic post

21 Jan 2014 20:16:01
If you could take one player now from any team in the premier league to be at united who would it be and why? For me aguero his movement and finishing is just class and can play any attacking position well

In terms of who I rate highly, aguero.

In terms of who we need, yaya or hazard.

If we didn't already have DDG I'd say Courtois. That given I'll have to agree on Aguero.

Oh what might have been if we'd been a little more enthusiastic when pursuing him!

Good shout Gav, I love Aguero but our need is in the middle. Toure is a beast and it's a shame to see City with such fantastic players.

Kompany. He's a leader, great communicator, a rock in defence and great at bringing the ball out from the back. For me he is the best centre back in the world.

{Ed004's Note - Same for me}

The Spine of City, Kompany, Yaya, Aguero. Swap them for Vidic, Carrick and Rooney in a heart-beat plus £100mil.

Heart breaking to see everyones choice is a city player :')

Yaya, because that's what we need most, and he's the best in the league at it, but if it was a luxury player, Hazard every time. He's turning into a great, wee player. Damn Chelsea, and their winning the ECL!

Well trumours I will break the trend yohan cabaye

21 Jan 2014 19:19:34
Surprise surprise Dante is currently negotiating a new mega contract with Bayern. nothing like name dropping United to make sure it happens.

This story has no legs whatsoever.

I know mate, I did some digging and a few tweets suggested nobody within Dante's camp knew anything about current interest from United.

I've never seen him play but he seems a beast. however, at 30yrs old, he would be a short-term solution to losing both Rio and Vidic. But if we'd got him for cheap, wouldn't have complained.

Anyway, another one seemingly bites the dust only this one was only alive for a few hours!

21 Jan 2014 18:41:48
Well I have to say, I can't make any light of what we are seeing. 10 days to go in the window and we are seeing stuff that no one expected and gets you wondering and trying to connect the dots.

1. We are talking to Dante supposedly. It is quite an interesting option given his quality but also his age. Does this mean we are giving up on our pursuit of Garay as per ED002 we had to make a move by now or risk losing hm to someone else. Are we looking at someone else in the summer as first choice target. Given Dante age and quality he would provide some much needed stability in our defense for the rest of the season given how awful we are defending and probably the end of Rio playing much this year.

2. Juan Mata. your guess is as good as mine :)

3. Juve and Inter have broken off their deal, which is what I thought would have been interesting and maybe gave us a snowballs chance of pulling off a vidal deal. Where guarin ends is still interesting as he has basically refused to play for inter again and furious with the whole fiasco of this ordeal, LOL typical italian is it not.

Finally, It is quite obvious given today's developments we are in for more surprises and massive volume of rumors in the next 10 days. So hang on to your hats and try and not go nuts because who knows what we wake up to tomm in the papers.

It would be nice if we can get a left back in early and whatever happened next would be a bonus.

I find it curious that Juventus went after Guarin in the first place. They have Pogba, Vidal, Marchisio and Pirlo. They are definitely losing one of them imo. Hope its one of the first 2 ;)

Almost certain Dante is just trying for a better contract at Bayern.

I'd love Mata but not Mata instead of LB and CM, as well as, fine.

Looks like the Dante stuff is pure bs. Just goes to show we are going to be in for a wild ride.

21 Jan 2014 17:52:45
Think david moyes is getting very desperate now with this Dante deal seems to me like he's trying to sign any old chump it's not the man united way he's so so poor

{Ed004's Note - You mean a player who played 45 games for a team that is considered the best team in the world by some distance ATM and is a regular for one of the favourites for the World Cup is a poor 'old chump'? Please describe your logic?}

Yeah next thing you know we'd be signing Vidal and co. We're getting very desperate!

Moyes is poor not Dante but whether
he'd fit at old Trafford is a different story and he's getting old not the Man United philosophy poor stuff by moyes again how many blunders is he gunna make

{Ed004's Note - How is it poor stuff to go for Dante? You are coming across at being a fan from another site looking to provoke and it's becoming very boring ATM}

Dante is absolute quality. He can play LB too. I'd carry him from Germany regardless of his age.

Don't know if this Dante rumour is true but I hope it is . He seems like just the kind of strong, experienced defender we need right now, especially with Vidic and Ferdinand coming to the end of the line .
At 30 he could be good for at least the rest of this season and and the next two and could be a reasonable fee ttoo

Uve got the wrong end of the stick but in my opinion I think the best deal united could do is get rid of moyes and place a proven winner in charge I wonder ware United would be now if Jose was in charge it begs the question?

Mr Bean, you are a comedian.

You're either a troll, or you have the IQ of a r******* turtle.

How can Dante be a bad acquisition? It does not make any sense any way you look at it

Bean, let's not forget which club bought Andy Carrol and Stewart Downing for £35m and £20m respectively. Haha leave off ;)

Not a Liverpool fan just don't think moyes is the right man and I stick by it what's on his port folio he's a mediokre manger never won anything you only have look at what Martinez is doing at Everton to judge how good moyes he is average and makes very poor decisions

"is average and makes very poor decisions"

That goes for some of our (so called) supporters too. This OP was embarrassing if you tuely are a united fan, which I very much doubt.

Seriously Bean i'm not sure you could convince any of us your a utd fan. Unless you explained your apparent hatred for Moyes and co. You.say unproven but most would look at his time at everton as a success. High finishes regularly developing youth playes into to pros. And as for his transfer dealings. i'd say they were pretty good baines, fellaini, coleman, cahill pienaar and co all of whom have done great during there time at everton under moyes.

Domi

Moyes did well at Everton if you are looking to achieve mid table mediocrity but nowhere near well enough to justify becoming manager of our great club.

Dante would be a good edition no doubt but he getting on a bit.

I don't think it would be better than going for Garay or Mangala.

Red man

I agree to the point we'd of all probably wanted that spectacular managerial appointment but who was really available? I think moyes will prove to be the ideal man to steady the ship that was always going to suffer not only with fergie leaving but gill aswell. I think after a few years of steadying things we would then look for that manager that lights the touch paper and really has us all buzzing again. Would love to kno who your choice would of been and who your choice would be for a few years time.
Mine and please don't take the mick, but i'd bring cantona home. can't think of anyone that would have a greater impact both fan and player wise. he's saod he can see himself doing it and knows exactly how he'd go about it. But would not return to the club while the glazers still owned us.

21 Jan 2014 17:51:15
Open to people's thoughts on this but, what do you reckon the possibility of Vidal or Pogba going to Chelsea would be if Mata was to come to us? While I do understand Chelsea could do with a striker, Lukaku will be returning at the end of the season and with a bit of World Cup experience under his belt who knows how effective he could be? If it were me I'd rather have Vidal or Pogba in my midfield than an ageing Lampard or John Obi MassiveFail. Could just be me overthinking things but if there's a chance the Mata stories might have some credibility, would it be too ridiculous to think this was also possible?

It would not surprise me one bit if after we signed Mata (assuming we do) Chelsea went out and signed Vidal.

21 Jan 2014 16:49:49
Is 39mill reasonable for player who can't get in the Chelsea team

£30m is about right IMHO.

Oh u would moan if he was 37p bean, ure a troll

21 Jan 2014 17:08:56
His stats are unreal I wouldn't mind a Spanish international premier league proven for 39
Million

Yea £30m sounds about right.

The main thing is he's proven at the highest level with world and European pedigree not like big fellani so I suppose u know what ure getting with a player of that stature

As I said earlier - he's £10m better than Berbatov and Torres and £25m better than Carrol.

Based on those transfers anywhere between 40 and 60 million would be a good deal!

21 Jan 2014 15:47:11
I think u going for mata is a good signing for ya. But how different does he play the role of kagawa? I know he's a lot better but surely u want a center mid who will dominate the midfield. Also if u sign mata I'm convinced this will spell the end for rooney. So who would you rather have? Mata or rooney? Rooney all day long for me. If I was wenger I would make a cheeky 25m bid in the summer seeing though hele be in the last year of his contract, exactly what u did with rvp to us.

Why would rooney leave united to a club that consistently finish's below 3rd place?
Im not saying he won't leave but to arsenal? it ain't april fools day yet mate.

The difference between Mata and Kagawa in enormous.
Mata is a seasoned pro in the Premiership and has had two fantastic seasons at Chelsea until Jose came back and changed the style of play.
Kagawa is too lightweight for this league, he struggles with the pace of the game. Technically he is very good but he just isn't suited to Manchester United's style of play of the fast furious pace and power of the Premiership.
Mata would be a great signing but let's not forget the biggest problem, the central midfield area, the left back and a central defender.

Atleast 4th place mate. try getting that atleast and then let us know how difficult it is.

we had 7 losses all of last season, your on that already.

utd always like to be the first. first team to win the trophy and not qualify for top4. I wonder how the summer will go.

Mata is a great player and I for one would be very disappointed if we sold him to any other club, let alone what was until recently, a rival.

My question is this though - would Moyes use Mata correctly? He had Barkley at Everton and Kagawa at United. Both players have very good technique but have their talents wasted in a Moyes team.

Could not be any worse than how well Mourinho is using him LOL. Enjoy it whilst it last.

Mata on the right rooney behind van persie and kagawa on the left vidal and carrick in behind coentrao at left back with jones and evans in centre back rafael on the right and de gea in goal

21 Jan 2014 14:40:49
Just read this aswell on his twitter account, he also followed it up with - "mata condition to leave was that the club had to tell him he could leave"

21 Jan 2014 14:25:17
Would love United to pay the 40m for Mata but don't think its happening. Also surely Guarin for Vucinic is not a like for like swap and may be a replacement for somebody?

{Ed004's Note - Vucinic is a striker and Guarin is a midfielder}

Yer that's what i'm saying, not a like for like swap so would Guarin be a replacement for a certain somebody?

21 Jan 2014 14:13:23
Ive been having a bit of a remanis about past utd teams and come to the conclusion of what I believe to be our biggest problem on the field. When you look at the great utd teams gone by there was one thing that was always there. And that was players ready to bust a gut just to win a nothing ball. Players with edge and a times a bit of spite. i'm thinkin guys like kimg eric, roy keane. And I kno he always had that pretty boy image but even becks had that edge to his game and would go out there and leave everything on the field. Suppose what i'm getting at is, where is that now. Which players besides probably wazza do that now for us. Wheres the bite. It seems obvious to say the solution woud be to go buy it in the form of a vidal, but I really do think the guys there now should be asking themselves do I do that. Do I give everything.

Rooney hasn't been interested for the last 2 - 3 years so I don't know where you get the impression that he's the only busting a gut for the team? I think if you look closely at welbeck you can see its proper hurting him that we aren't meeting the standard that we have set over the last 20 years, also if you can't see that rafeal, vidic, carrick and fletcher aren't trying their hardest to turn things around then you must be watching a different team to me.

Agree with you on welbeck no doubt. And although I rate carrick very very highly and he is a consitant player when it comes to performing at what he does well in my opinion he's not that type of player I was speaking about that has an edge. I believe rafael could go on to be a top top player aswell although my point was players with an edge that serves the team well where as he tends to be more reckless at this point. Vidic and fletch again they have what I was speaking about but unfortunatley we don't have them in the team week in week out due to illness and injury. I jusy feel maybe this squad is a bit to nice if you no what I mean. Appreciate your feedback!

To try and be more specific to my original post, what I mean is there's a certain type of player i.e cantona, keane, schmeichal etc. that bring that extra bit out of the rest of the players around them.

Since moyes and the backroom team come in the players seem to have lost there cutting edge why is that somebody tell me? you can say it's not a good side but for me it was top 3 in Europe last season we got ripped of in the champions league and we strolled the epl by 11points is it really that the players are not good enough I don't think so?

Bean

"but for me it was top 3 in Europe last season

This place is a trip, pass the d…ie LOL.

This is one of the most bizarre statements I have seen in 20 years. Are you taking the piss or being serious?

@domi b I dig what you say about the team being a bit to nice and lacking that nasty side of the game that the 94 team had in abundance and it would help if fletcher in particular could play more often. I understand what your saying about rafeal but I think apart from sunday has learnt to be aggressive in controlled manner and I think he was just annoyed with Chelsea getting away with the dark arts of football. I see what your saying with carrick but he doesn't need to be nasty to get uder the opposition's skin he can frustrate teams by keeping possession and intercepting the ball at regular intervals. let's just hope that things improve enough for us to be playing in champions league next season hey. Keep the red flag flying!

21 Jan 2014 14:10:47
Dont shoot the idea, just a fort but if chelsea where to sell us Mata as they don't see us as a treat to them, and beleive we ca take points off the likes of city arsenal and liverpool could we not do the same and sell them rooney.

Many of yous have stated that if we get mata it prity much spells the end for rooney at united. Couple this with the factor many of us have little hope on retaining the title and more driven to make sure we confirm top 4. Hence if we where to sell rooney to chelsea we would also be able to help take points of the likes of arsenal liverpool and city which could only increase our chances of securing the top 4. plus if rooney moved I could only imagine him to have a good spell untill summer before he has a major decline.

Unfortunately them selling Mata to us to take points off of their rivals only works because Mata is not getting into their team.

In short; we NEED Rooney to take points off of other teams as well as Mata.

They are not selling because they want to take points off of Manchester City, Arsenal, etc. They are selling because of the FFP rules. If they want to go out and spend £50m on a striker in the summer they need to balance the books. Either that or they are hoping to agree some sort of deal for Rooney in the summer.

21 Jan 2014 13:50:13
It's being reported that Mata is refusing to comment on the united links. This may have legs after all. By bye Rooney I'm thinking.

21 Jan 2014 13:08:02
OK OK let me get this right.

We complain about needing a playmaker.

We approach a playmaker.

We complain?

I get it that 37m is a lot but cmon, we know how good mata is and even with rooney staying, Mata can play on the right, so with Januzaj-Rooney-Mata behind RVP then we have an amazing front 4.

If you ask for playmakers don't complain when we approach one.

The fee shouldn't concern us fans as long as we can afford it, it's the quality of player that is important and Mata is up there with the very best.

I don't think mata will happen.

First, the Mata stuff is nonsense. Never going to happen in a million years.

Now that that's out of the way. What we need more than a playmaker is a new strategical direction. At the moment the game plan is get it down the line and get it into the box. Where is a player like Mata going to fit in that system: lump him on the left wing or up front like Januzaj in the last match? Mata can play on the right as an inverted winger, but would be wasted if he doesn't have midfielders pushing up to support him when he cuts inside.

In Kagawa we already have a similar, but not as good, player. He gets shunted to the left wing on the rare occasions he gets to play, so why would spending £35-40m on Mata make a huge difference? We need a new cb, lb, lw and at least one top class cm, but more than anything else we need some new tactical ideas. We are rigid, predictable and if we stay with the current plan we may as well stick Fellaini behind the striker to give us more of threat in the air. A player like Mata would have minimal effect for us unless we change the system first.

@danny I think mata would be the start of a change in style because you don't spend that much if you don't play in a way that's suits he players style.

Change in style? How will moyes change? He's no ideas in the first place. He has stuck kagawa on the left wing that many times and it has never worked. He played him centrally in three behind a striker, and he was superb. So what did moyes do? Drop him for the chelsea match.

21 Jan 2014 13:03:57
Bean - all your posts seem to be negative and absolute nonsense. I honestly doubt your a Manchester United fan.

I would concur, well either that or he's just a miserable end-of-a-bell!

In his own words: "Bean out"

21 Jan 2014 12:10:12
Afternoon gents. Am I the only one that thinks if Mata comes in then Rooney is definitely going? Can't see him going in January but definitely in the summer with Mata a like for like replacement. Is this good business? Mata has years left in him & is a class player of Rooney ilk IMO. However his work when the opponents have the ball isn't what I imagine Moyes goes for, he rarely tracks back. All paper speculation as usual.

For what it's worth I see Rooney leaving in the summer regardless of our situation.

I agree, I find it hard to believe we would swap Rooney for Mata or spend £35m on him when he doesn't work hard off the ball like both Jose and Moyes like.

I would much rather spend £35m on Vidal now that Juventus have Pogba, Pirlo, Guarin, Asamoah & Marchisio. They also like the look of Carvalho who will likely replace Pogba in the summer.

We should be trying very hard to get Vidal while interest from other clubs is minimal.

21 Jan 2014 11:14:32
Am I the only one that thinks that as good as Mata is he isn't what we really need? Another AM that won't play when Rooney is fit? We need CM, LB, CB more so than another AM we have Rooney, Kagawa, Fellaini, Adnan, and even put Giggsy there if needed? If Mata does come I think it will spell the end of Rooney and possibly Kagawa? What's your thoughts?
I'd rather have one of Vidal, Pogba, Cabaye? Don't get me wrong I wouldn't be disappointed to have Mata but where do we play him unless we change to a 3-2-2-1-2 or a 4-3-1-2? Which I can't see happening, although I like the thought of playing 3 CB and 2 wing backs but who would play there is another question.
We will see in the next ten days but don't be surprised if no one comes in!

{Ed004's Note - I think Mata would be a signing to replace Rooney}

You would have to think that Mata signing would be the end of Rooney and Kagawa (hopefully used in Reus deal).

All 3 are too similar and at this moment in time not what we need, this team is crying out for pace.

When a world class player becomes available you move for him.

Signing Mata will help us immensely. For the remainder of the season he will play on the left hand side with Rooney behind RVP. In summer, Rooney will be sold and Mata will move centrally or stay left if he does well with Kagawa centrally. He gives us more options than Rooney. I think Rooney is holding us back somewhat.

Lets think about this seriously. Chelsea would almost certainly swap Mata for Rooney. I doubt they would let us have Mata unless Rooney was part of a deal.

It's probable that both Rooney and Mata would welcome changing clubs. The only thing that is in question is a) whether we want Mata and b) whether we would sell Rooney to a rival.

I don't think we are interested in Mata and I do not think we will sell Rooney to a rival, so unless we have CONFIRMED INTEREST in Mata, the discussion is pointless to a degree.

Do you really want to lose Rooney? Because it will be the only way to get Mata. I am not convinced we are even interested in Mata. Who says we are? Betting odds?

I think Chelsea need Rooney more than we need Mata.
I don't think Mata would be a massive improvement on Rooney ( if any to be honest )
I think Rooney would be a great signing for Chelsea.
If Chelsea can get a top class striker in exchange for a player that's not making the first 11 it's obvious who has got the better deal .

A lot of people wanted to get rid of Rooney and play kags in the summer.
Imo thank God we never.
Looking at the page the same people want to get rid of Rooney and play Mata.

It would be a bad move imo

"If Chelsea can get a top class striker in exchange for a player that's not making the first 11 it's obvious who has got the better deal."

I think this is spot on and I agree, however what if Rooney was going to spend all summer trying to leave creating another Rooney saga or was going to run his contract down and leave for free. Would you swap for Mata then? I would prefer Draxler or Reus, but would we get £30m for Rooney with 12 months left? Or can we really guarantee we can get Reus or Draxler, we could end up with nobody.

I doubt Chelsea fans would be too happy if they swapped Mata for Rooney (with no cash) and I doubt any United fans would be happy if we let Rooney go to Chelski as he'd complete their attack.

As Jred says - they need Rooney more than we need Mata but I'd argue that at the moment we too need Rooney more than we need Mata.

If there's any way of competing the deal for a cash sum then I'd say go for it. If it involves Rooney going to Chelski now or in the summer - then no thanks.

Jred & Syd

I think we have absolutely no chance of signing Mata. Chelsea would never sell to a rival. If it is a Rooney/Mata swap, its a no brainer as to who gets the better deal. let's compare the current United side with Mata and the current Chelsea side with Rooney. We sure do have a hands on winner. Mata is miles better than Kagawa, but then with how Moyes wants us set up, will it be worth it? As it is I think Kags is off this summer. Honestly I won't blame either him or the club.

On a different note, refreshing to see Jred and Syd in complete agreement with each other ;-)

Deeps.

Redseven, I agree, but what if Rooney goes next summer and we end up with no Rooney, no money for Rooney and no Mata? Food for thought. Luiz and Mata are surplus for Chelsea, I think Mata would be the better deal if we are going to lose Rooney anyway.

It's all ""what ifs" but that's all we have right now I guess.

I think we need a player like mata more than any other type of player as we have struggled to create chances all season. I also think rooney's form has been pretty average since November apart from the Leverkusen game and I believe he lost all motivation to play for us and has also lost a yard of pace since 2010 meaning he never really got over the ankle injury he picked up against munich, so why not get mata in and then sell rooney in the summer after he hopefully does the business in the world cup?

Sydney -

Rooney will either go this summer or sign a new deal. If he goes this summer we will get money for him. It may not be as much as Mata will cost us but that's the cost of keeping a player away from your rivals.

If Rooney continues his early form once back from injury there will be no shortage of clubs after his signature in the summer. My gut says RM will make a move for him if they are unable to get Suarez. Failing that I can see him going to PSG.

Ultimately I'm hoping he will stay if the club bring in the right players. If we don't - I don't blame him for leaving (especially if we're not playing in the Champion's League next season).

Or he could leave for Chelsea on a free next summer.

You cannot say he will either be sold this summer "abroad" or sign a new deal. He could be telling our club that he will either join Chelsea this summer for £30m/Mata or he will sign for nothing next summer. Giving the club a big decision to make. If RvP at 29 cost us £24m with 12 months left, I think £30m for Rooney with 18 months may be about right.

Sydney. It worked for Lewandowski because he is 25 and Bayern did not need him last summer. It would not work for Rooney.

Chelsea are in dire need of a striker. Do you really think they will go another 18 months without one in order to sign a player who will be a few months off turning 30? I certainly do not. For that reason I can't see Rooney moving on a free.

Chelsea WILL sign a striker this summer. I did not say Rooney would not be sold to Chelsea - just that if he keeps up his form we should have a few clubs interested in him. If we choose not to sell Rooney to Chelsea they will move for one of Higuain, Suarez, Benzema, Costa, Falcao, Cavani, etc.

Chelsea will buy more than one striker over the next couple of years. If they didn't get Rooney this month or in the summer, then they will buy a striker in the summer and get Rooney for free the summer afterwards. Torres, Ba & Eto'o will all be gone within two years, possibly all gone by the summer.

MU will not want to sell Rooney to a rival, but if he is adamant that he is leaving anyway, then MU will want the best possible deal from it. Perhaps a straight swap for Mata is the best option for the club? Who knows, it's all "what ifs" ATM mate. Perhaps we will know more soon.

I'm sorry Syd - but I don't buy it. Waiting 18 months for a striker makes no sense. They play one up top so they can either buy a second rate striker in the summer and keep him for 12 months before taking on Rooney or take on a top striker and be unable to offer Rooney a starting place when he signs. Why would they wait when there are so many other, younger top strikers out there? They'd still have no guarantee that they would be able to land Rooney at the end of his contract (a team like PSG could blow them out of the water in terms of wage and signing on fee).

Who's to say Rooney will even be a top player by the time he's turning thirty. Over the summer you were adamant that he was past his best and that age would only make him worse. I'd still disagree - but if that's the case I can't imagine he'd be too attractive a proposition in 18 months times.

The only swap deal I'd consider would be Rooney + cash for Mata + Lukaku - and that will never happen.

21 Jan 2014 10:38:09
Ed002, there are rumours suggesting Chelsea let this Mata rumour slip to the media as they would be open to swapping Mata for Rooney. Can you shine some light on all of this for us. Are Chelsea still actively trying to buy Rooney as we speak? If so have Chelsea offered Mata as a sweetener? Thanks.

{Ed004's Note - Syd would you take Mata knowing he is Rooney's replacement? IMO as long as we signed a Reus/Draxler I'd happily sell Rooney to fund it. A three behind RVP of Draxler/Reus, Mata and Januzaj would be fantastic though we would need two high energy midfielders such as Gundogan and Vidal which could be expensive}

NO, I wouldn't want Rooney to join Chelsea, but if Rooney was going to leave for Chelsea anyway then yes I would have Mata in return. But I wouldn't play Mata in the hole, I would play him on the left. Januzaj on the right, RvP either as main striker or slightly behind a main striker? Which will mean us going out and buying a striker, perhaps Costa?

{Ed004's Note - I wouldn't play Mata were he isn't at his best. I'd start playing Kagawa and Mata in their primary positions and then sign a left winger. RVP is fine up top and Welbeck and Hernandez are good enough cover. Against top teams you could maybe play Mata out left and add another body (Carrick or Fellaini) to midfield that means we would ultimately be playing against top teams with a packed midfield as even Januzaj will come inside}

I would take Mata as part of a deal for Rooney, I actually rate his link up play much higher and he is technically much better. I don't think that RVP and Rooney gel that well actually but Mata feeding RVP would be excellent I would think. Get Mata now and then a reasonable offer from Chelsea for Rooney and I would sell, I think he will let him self go anytime soon anyway and would mean that our play becomes more modern.

If I was to go for Costa, then I would use Hernandez as a sweetener. Buy a central midfielder, Center-back and Left-Back. In a perfect world I would keep Rooney, but for what we pay him, we could fund 3-4 other player's wages with that money and if he's going anyway, then Mata is better than cash.

{Ed004's Note - I still think a LW is needed as other than Januzaj are wingers have been shocking and two midfielders}

If Moyes doesn't think Kagawa is built for the hole, he certainly won't think Mata is. Personally I cannot see Mata in a MU shirt so it's hard to discuss it. We could be discussing all of this and Mata is not even a target.

I really don't get people's obsession with kagawa in 18 month he has had 2 good games.
I don't see any signs that moyes rates or trust him.
I think he will leave in the summer

Like any player Kagawa needs a good run of games, but he will not get that here. I think he is wasted here. We know he is a very good player as we watched him at Dortmund, Klopp is a massive fan and Jose tried to sign him whilst at Real Madrid. So his talent isn't in question, it's whether he is a good fit at MU. He probably isn't, not with the current players around him.

21 Jan 2014 12:03:07
We need a left winger that's a given, if we keep Rooney then we'll need either another striker or no.10 depending on where its thought best to play Rooney. But if Rooney leaves then we will need BOTH a striker and a no.10.

Reus should be the priority for the LW position, if we are after a striker then we should go for either Cavani or Diego Costa.

If Rooney leaves then I would look for a No.10 as well, maybe Roberto Firmino or Alex Teixeira could be good options, in an ideal world it would be Koke. But I can't see us getting Reus, Cavani and Koke along with a top class CM and a LB and CB. But we can dream. Lol

Syd
But that's the point, he doesn't suit United or the epl.
Jose is not playing Mata because he doesn't work enough .
Kagawa is a good player but has done nothing in a United shirt in 18 month.
I really don't get why people think he is suddenly going to be amazing.
I will be honest and I said this in the summer I don't think kagawa will make it at United or an other EPL team

Jred, that's the reason I do not think we are interested in Mata. Kagawa doesn't work hard enough defensively, the exact reason Jose doesn't want Mata and bought Willian to replace him. If Moyes doesn't think Kagawa can do it, Moyes will not spend £35m on a similar player. It seems odd to me.

Syd
100% agree

Unless there is a lot of pressure on United to buy a " top player " and Mata is the only one available .
But I can't see it to be honest

Jred, I do not see MU as a panic buying club or Moyes for that matter. SAF perhaps, but he's no longer here.

Unless Rooney has made it abundantly clear he wants to move to Chelsea and will move there for free at the end of next season. MU may think Mata is a good enough compromise.

Interesting stuff guys as I have just tuned in and see all hell has broken loose :)

If this story has any legs then I would believe Rooney's camp is doing stuff behind the scenes and maybe the club has decided they don't want the distraction given everything else and will cut their losses now.

Chelsea will get more in terms of what they need most and let's say we come out even for arguments sake. However I am also not convinced he suits Chelsea's system as a striker given the fact that he does not like playing the advanced role and likes to drop back. Costa from AM is the type of striker suited to the Mourinho system IMO.

My head says all bs and nothing will come out of it.

21 Jan 2014 10:11:27
All this talk of us having £100m to spend is nonsense as I see three signings of which two sound possible and all coming under £100m and would completely turn our season around

Cabaye - £24m
Mata - £37m
Vidal - £25-30m

young - £10m
Nani - £10m

total spend - £66m - £71m

Thoughts

I think Vidal would go for something closer to $35 million

Vidal will easily cost upwards of 40 million.

How about this:

In:

Mata - £37m
Vidal - £45m
Gundogan - £25m
Garay - £18m
Benega - £15
Coentrao - Loan

Total Outlay - £140m

Out:

Kagawa - £15m
Young: £10m
Nani: £10m
Cleverley: £8m

Total in: £43m

Net Spend £97m?

Mata will go for around £25-30m depending on the buying club, he has hardly played so they can't ask top dollar for him right now. Vidal will easily be £40m+ But worth the money to us I feel. I'd put Vidal, Mata, Cabaye in that order but for Mata to come in I think we would need to know for sure that Rooney is on his way out. I'd love Mata and Vidal even if it meant Rooney was going this summer, personally. A 433 or 4321 midfield/forward line up of Fellaini Carrick Vidal behind Januzaj Mata and RVP would be amazing.

Not one of those ins will be arriving, forget it!

Is that net spend including all the taxes signing on fees agent fees ect?

Dio1989:

I have no idea, I'm just trying to perk myself up a bit!

21 Jan 2014 09:36:05
Good luck lads, speak to you in may

Your the best banter lot on here

Chin up sid!

Oh dear chris

Im curious Charlie, would u class us finishing 5th and arsenal finishing 3rd a successful season?

I get the banter and enjoy it but it does seem quite sad many rival fans think a successful season for them is United struggling.

Food for thought mate.

21 Jan 2014 09:32:20
Vucinic - Guarin swap is on, off, on, off? If it happens it will be very interesting to see what happens next regarding juventus overcrowded midfield.

21 Jan 2014 09:50:33
Not that I think either are very likely but if you had to choose between Mata or Reus who would you sign?

For me it has to be Reus as he is so much more versitile and his pace makes him more of a rounded threat.

If we have the money like we apparently have then just go out and buy both, left and right coming inside whenever.

Reus, more direct, quicker, skillful.

21 Jan 2014 08:20:40
Not sure about the Mata rumours we all ready have kagawa who I think is similar to mata and it looks like moyes isn't a big fan of that type of player.
So would he spend 30 + on him?
Would Chelsea and Jose let him sign for United?
I not so sure, I think he will go back to Spain

I think Mata has a far better passing range than Kagawa, he can cross the ball and he's abit more versatile in where on the pitch he can really play. I think he would be a good signing, if a bit dear. I think it's going to take a big cm signing to really change the season around though, Mata would help with 4th place, 3rd if this Arsenal lapse that many seem sure about ever happens.

The only way Chelsea would sell Mata to us is if we paid through the teeth or included Rooney in the deal.

I don't think we do have an interest in him, if Kagawa doesn't fit, then how will Mata fit? I think he will join Atletico.

Mata can play left if need be as he did regularly for Valencia and come inside, something we are seriously lacking.

Mata is better than Kagawa and is a proven EPL signing, the move comes with no risk and makes perfect sense.

I think we would definitely be interested if Chelsea were open to it personally think regardless of who comes in this window either Kagawa or Rooney will go in the summer so it could make sense.I agree with you on the terms Chelsea would be willing to deal though Syd! either pay through the nose or a first refusal on Rooney.

If the money being quoted is anything close to accurate I think its very expensive but I suppose you have to pay a premium with players bought from another prem club even more so than from abroad.

Its all very interesting suppose only time will tell but it would be nice to bring in a player of Matas quality.

Also at the cash being mentioned I would rather draxler or reus.
I agree with syd I think Mata would be bought as a lw.
He plays a lot of his football there.

21 Jan 2014 06:17:03
Hey guys, as I have started putting things together from the last 20 days, a few things have clicked but its probably nothing more than optimism.

we have been heavily linked with vidal and juventus have come out and said that everyone but vidal will not be leaving. juventus have just had a player swap between guarin and vucinic turned down by inter at the last minute because of fan reaction from inter. they are now apparently interested in carvahlo at sporting lisbon. could it be possible that juventus want to sign another midfielder before they sell us vidal? he is likely to cost us 40+ million if you believe the numbers thrown around. I feel that juventus don't want to be held to ransom like liverpool did when they sold torres to chelsea for 50 mill then somehow spent 35 mill on andy carrol cause newcastle knew they had the money!

we are apparently lodging a bid for mata and I feel we will pick up coentrao this window.

all we need is a cb, we have been linked with garay all window as well.

If we can pick up mata, vidal, coentrao and garay then I feel like it would be a great transfer window for us.

as I said at the start, its definitely optimistic but that's all i'm hanging on to at the moment, just like a lot of other fans. If we have the money then the glazers need to back moyes 100% and let him build his team. I know pelligrini is in his first season at city but he also inherited an unperforming squad, they also spent 100 mill on negredo, fernandinho, jovetic and navas from memory, and mourinho being back at chelsea inherited some of the best attacking players in the world and bought in willian and eto'o. both these managers hit their targets in the summer and we didnt. I would like to judge moyes better once he has built his team

Definitely like your eggs sunny side up. If we made those signings over the next week or so and the summer I'd be happy and I think that is a bit more realistic.

Like the name mate, but if you are Andersons Chef how the hell have you hot time to be posting in here? It'll be time for elevensies soon. Get back to work man! :)

To be honest I am over some of the negativity that is directed towards the club. we have been spoilt for the last 20 years, now its time for us to show our support to the club, the players and the manager.

i don't think its going to be as easy as we think to sign the players we want in the summer, man city, chelsea, psg, real madrid will all be looking to sign the same players we want. with good performances at the world cup, the prices of these players may go up even more

just on david moyes, how does a good manager become a great manager? he gets a chance at a top club, implements his own system and ideas and buys his own players. maybe david moyes doesn't have the players to play the way he wants? I don't know. he must of shown some good qualities cause hasn't he won manager of the year twice?

21 Jan 2014 00:43:15
Well I wonder if there is any truth in the Mata rumours seems a bit of a strange one but I suppose a fluid 3 of Mata, Rooney and Januzaj would be pretty impressive also quite a coup to get the guy from Chelsea, I think it might happen seeing as Mourinho is just arrogant enough to sell us one of thier best players as were not a threat.I must say that £37 mil seems a bit excessive?

eds any substance to this story? if you guys have a minute.

21 Jan 2014 00:07:08
Hello 1st time poster on this site just a couple of things I want to know who is leaving in the summer and who are we bringing in realistically please now and in the summer any info much appreciated thanks.