Manchester United Banter Archive July 21 2013

21 Jul 2013 21:29:10
Sydney, you seem to think we can sell Rooney and not replace him. You may not like him, but Rooney scores 20+ goals per season and makes 10+ goals a season as well. Fabregas may score 10, but not 20+, and Kagawa may score another 10, but we had him last year. Also they may make another 20 between them, but Rooney plays a part in most of our goals. You say he loses the ball too much, yet he completes 85% of all passes, including over 87% of all short passes, as well as over 76% of all final third passes. The fact is Rooney passes the ball superbly, he moves the ball around superbly, him and Carrick make United tick. We win more games with Rooney playing, we score more goals, we concede less goals and we score more goals in top four clashes with Rooney playing. You also say he performs badly in big games yet he scored 4 goals against top 4 opponents, and he scored 7 goals for England in 1 season, basically carrying the England team.

Just shows you really can't trust statistics.

21 Jul 2013 22:46:36
Erm, they are far from superb stats mate.
Tells me he hasn't got enough accurate cutting passes. Which what is needed to play behind the striker.
People seem to think Rooney adds soo much to the team. He does what we expect, and not a great deal more. I think people are a bit delutional about what he brings. He doesn't bring enough footballing magic to the table to justify his poor lifestyle, fitness and attitude. Whether that's for England or UTD.
Many players can do what Rooney does and more. I don't even think you need to look too far from home.
People class Rooney a legend have already forgotton true legends like Robson, Charlton, Best, Cantona. They must have.
We won't miss Rooney or his agent.

Whistler.

Statistics mean nothing mate. Most the time Rooney is sluggish and slow on the field and isn't what makes us tick. If anything he can be the reason we don't play too well sometimes.

Don't get me wrong he is a superb player when inform but all this percentage crap means nothing.

If you watch every game Rooney plays and focus on just him you will notice how many mistakes he makes.

Well said gilly. Rooney is so important.
Nomidfield

You describe the Rooney of old, not the Rooney we saw last season.

Nathaniel

Nani usually has pretty decent stats too but when he gets the ball most of us kinda expect him to fluff it up, how many times would he take a shot on when others were in acres of space? berbatov was the leading scorer and 2nd or 3rd for assists in one year yet he slowed the play down and opportunities to really punish teams were missed.

point is stats do not make a player, rooneys movement and touch are not reflected in stats, nor does the type of pass. in relation to the amount of playing time spent in the prefered position (in the hole) I would wager kagawa created more chances and retained the ball more compared to rooney and will continue to do so next season

Well if they say a goal keeper is only as good as his defence then our goals can only be as good as our midfield.

If the defence protect the ball from testing the Keeper, and start the play for our midfield, it must be said that our strikers can only be good as our midfield. Who has been Carrick and Rooney.

Rooney has always dropped deep cause are mids are not 100% and Rooney did pass the ball from midfield to RVP for that cracker.

If our Mid was sorted, Rooney stayed we would be immense. I like Rooney he has carried us many times even though many of you disagree but if Rooney never had to drop into MF to pick up play then he would not have been put there or played out of position.

We need Rooney to stay. Period

REDDEVIL

22 Jul 2013 00:44:32
If you wanna look at stats then you need to have someone to compare them with. let's have a look at Juan Mata as he plays the same role as Rooney in the same league with a team of players of a similar standard.

From a defensive point of view they do about the same amount of work, Mata Putting in 0. 6 tackles and 0. 6 interceptions a game on average, where as Rooney manages 0. 7 tackles and 0. 5 interceptions. This shows that Wayne is the slightly more active tackler but Mata reads the game better.

Passing wise Rooney averages 47. 4 passes a game with a success rate of 82. 6%, where as Mata does 49 passes with a success rate of 85. 5%. So Mata attempts and completes more passes. Mata manages 2. 8 key passes to Waynes 1. 8 a game, So Mata's passing is much more dangerous.

So what about goals and assists. Well Wayne managed 13 goals and 13 assists, where as Mata had 17 goals and 22 assists. Interesting though is that Mata managed to score 17 goals with an average of 1. 8 shots a game, where as Rooney's 13 goals came from an average of 3. 1 shots a game. So even though Wayne has spent most of his career as a striker it appears that Mata is the more clinical finisher of the two.

But you need to take into account that these players team mates will have an effect on their stats. Mata managed to create 14 clear cut chances for his team mates yet they only converted 33. 3% of them. Where as Rooney created 9 clear cut chances and his team mates converted 50% of them. So you could argue that Rooney's team mates have boosted his figures by being more clinical than their counter parts at Chelsea.

Now for the big one, how important is each player to their respective teams. If were looking at Rooney's worth to the team then this will show it.

Manchester United win 77. 3% of their games with Rooney in the side, this drops to 68. 8% when he isn't in the side, so he helps United win 8. 5% more games.

Chelsea win 67. 7% 0f their games with Mata, but this drops to a stunning 14. 3% without him. So Mata helps Chelsea win 53. 4% more games.

So quite clearly in a direct comparison with a similar player in the league we find that Mata is as good defensively, a better passer, a more dangerous passer, a more clinical finisher and is more important to his team than Rooney.

But stats only tell half the story, they don't tell you how much trouble a player brings to the club, they don't show a players poor life style chocies, they don't show the players lack of respect or his lack of fitness.

So we need to take these into account too when looking at the bigger picture.

Oh Shappy don't go around posting statistics. Statistics are facts, you can't argue with them. That will stop someof the nonsense that gets often posted like ' Rooney is the heart of the team ".

Well, quite clearly, he is not. And I've been saying for a while that Rooney offers no defensive help, but some on here would go around describing him as the new Roy Keane because he can tackle and he works hard. Well, it's clear he doesnt.

Mick

The thing with Rooney the older he has got the worse his general play has got, he will always score goals and get assists but last season we had so many good attacks and good chances but the play broke down every time it went to Rooney because his touch was that poor and he kept trying to dummy it. He clearly thinks he is better than he is otherwise he would work on his fitness and would out in 110% off the pitch. Get rid and use the deal for a p/x for Mata/Lukaku or get £30m+ and get Lamela/Ozil/Fabregas.

Back from a well deserved vacation and tend to agree with shappy, sydney and posters who are just a lot more grounded on this issue. Everyone knows my views on this guy and getting rid of him is in essence losing a very average player over the last 18 months.

So all this doom and gloom is complete nonsense and he is not worth 200k a week and definitely not worth the distraction and the media circus.

I wonder if anyone watched us last year and it would be hard to point out 5 games were he had a really good game and that is just not good enough.

Shahram

Great post Shappy.

Shappy,

Very impressive and interesting information. People like nomidfield who post on every single post about Rooney leaving seem to have forgotten that he was poor last season and his passing was dreadful, he clearly didn't want to be there and was so frustrating to watch as a fan.

It is pretty clear that Rooney is going to leave the club so people need to get their head around it and realise that the club will move on with players who are hungry and want to play for us.

Gilly, I have never said I don't like Rooney. In fact I defended him in 2010 and said he deserved his big contract. He was by far our best player in 2009/10 and I would have put him in the top five best players in the world. My opinions on Rooney are football based. Some people on this page seem to think he is bigger than the club and that we cannot live without him. Well they are wrong. RvP has already replaced Rooney as the main striker. Kagawa will replace him in the hole and if we can improve our midfield and left-side, Rooney will be replaced. We are not replacing the unplayable 2009/10 Rooney, we are replacing the lackluster Rooney from last season. I have my own pair of eyes and I can clearly see that since Rooney signed his new deal in October 2010, he has slowly been going downhill physically. Poor first touch, slowing down, losing the ball and not chsing to get it back etc etc. Last season that slow decline started to skydive and he was so poor that he was dropped and substituted early. People on here think it's a poor season, a one-off and that is their opinion, but I have been watching the slow decline since 2010 and IMO has little to do with form. Now I am not saying Rooney is finished or that he is crap. All I am saying is we have seen the best of him so this coupled with the obvious problems at the club is a good time to sell him. He does not deserve and improved contract even though he is trying to get one and we cannot afford to let him run down his contract, so selling him now is the best option for the club. If he signed for Chelsea I would fully expect him to score 25 goals for them. They make so many chances even Torres scored 22 and Rooney is better than him. I would expect him to start well whilst the novelty is there, but I think when the novelty wares off he will become a big problem for Chelsea. I think SAF has been planning for this for sometime now with the purchases of RvP & Kagawa. I also believe Rooney and his agent were aware that these purchases were the beginning of the end of Rooney's time at MU and perhaps that didn't help his performances last season. It cannot help knowing you are being phased out of the team. I think perhaps Cesc & Possibly Gaitan maybe the rest of the Rooney replacements (or what MU have in mind). So Rooney would have been replaced, but not directly this summer. Hope that explains how I feel Gilly?

Sydney!

21 Jul 2013 19:45:25
Not a rumour just thought I'd share with fellow Manchester United fans - I live in bloemfontein south africa, and read the funniest thing in newspaper ( die volksblad) this week, man city are complaining that the tickets for their pre season games are not selling and says that south africans lack ambition and love for football and when Manchester United played here last time round every stadium was sold out ( still remember that game in durban first time I saw united live)- don't they realise that its not a lack of love for the game but the people know class and knows that there's only one football club and that's united - RED DEVIL for life

Glad to hear it bro, its messages like this that make me smile :-D

I really like this post, citeh pump millions in and think it will make them a global force instantly

21 Jul 2013 19:06:33
"after going on and on about Rooney if he has a great season next year you really are going to look a bit daft"

Define "Great season"?

Torres scored 20+ goals last season for Chelsea. Did he have a "great season"? No he never. Torres is in decline, just like Rooney. I would fully expect Rooney to score 25 goals for Chelsea if Frank let him take the penalties. Torres would have scored 30+ goals had he been the penalty taker last season. He's still in decline though.

Sydney!

Syd
Torres scored 22 goals in 64 games take the 9 he got in the UEFA out of it and that's a rubbish return, 8 in the league very poor.
I would agree I think Torres is finished but as I have said a few times I think Rooney will do really well next year I also think a move to Chelsea would be good for for him to be honest.
You disagree no probs let's wait and see.
as always you seem very confident that your opinion is fact but remember over the last year you have tried to tell me
Cleverly will be world-class and we will build our midfield around him.
welbeck would score 20 goals last season
Bale is only good enough for LB at a team like United
So let's wait and see
Jred

I have never said Cleverley will be world-class. I said at a young age he has the potential to be. Not convinced he will make the step up now or that we will build our midfield around him, but he will still be a very useful player for us.

I said I thought Welbeck would score 20 goals before RvP was signed. When the 2011/12 season ended with Welbeck playing upfront with Rooney in the hole, I believed that is how this season would have been played out, with Welbeck played as the main striker, but instead we signed RvP.

I have always said and I maintain that Bale is not good enough to play as a left winger, but too good to be just a left-back. I thought wing-back would have been his best position before he went central. NOW I think his best position is central.

Rooney will score goals wherever he goes, just like Kevin Phillips ;) but Rooney has not reached the heights of 2009/10 and you can clearly see physically he has been struggling. Torres is a year older than Rooney and is struggling too. Owen's career went down hill earlier than expected. Now I am not saying Rooney will not score goals at Chelsea, he will, I am saying we have seen the best of Rooney.

Sydney!

21 Jul 2013 20:06:09
And he (Sydney) also said that Jack Rodwell will be better than Jack Wilshere. Ouch.

You will eat your words syd Rooney will only get better playing with better players

Ross

A lot of posters on here have their opinions which a lot do not share and turn out to be wrong.

I thought Ravel will be Rooney's replacement and Pogba will stagnate and join a team like Lens and Valencia will be the main man at united last season.

Jono thought De Gea will be a big disappointment.

Dont let me get started on Nani.

While I never agreed with Sydney's views on Cleverley, Welbeck or Bale, I do think he is spot on in Rooney's situation.

Fact is at 27, a player should be hitting his peak. Rooney already hit his aroundd the age of 25. A combination of starting top play on the highest level at such a young age and a very poor work ethic contributed to his untimely decline.

While he is still a fantastic player, he will never reach the heights of 2009 ( imo at least ) and selling him to Chelsea, even though it will reinforce them, will give us the opportunity tobuy a younger hungrier player who will serve us better.

And anyway, what is the other option? Keep a player who doesn't want to stay here and allowing him to run down his contract and losing him for half of his worth or even worse, for free?

Mick

Syd
the point is you went on and on about clevs being potential world-class and building midfield around him all last summer and look how that turned out.

R u really trying to compare Rooney and Philips.
Do you think Phillips would score goals at international and European level.
You have gone on and on about Rooney all year fat lazy unfit decline.
Well like I have continued to say I think you will see a much fitter much better wayne rooney this year. Let's just wait and see.
As for welbeck as I pointed out at the time I don't see him as a 20 goal a season striker for United or as the main striker for a team like United I hope he improves but last summer no chance.
Bale for me will play a central role he was all ready playing more central under harry. But to say he's not good enough to play lw is a joke, he is prob the best winger in the country one of the best in the world.
We may of seen the best of Rooney we may of just seen the best of messi or Rvp but I maintain we will see a very different Rooney to the one you have described over the past 12 month.
you think he is in decline I think he will be much better player this season let's Wait and see
Jred

Sydney, what are you on about, Bale is class as a LM. Plus Rooney, even when overweight, runs more than any other player for United, and even off form he scored more goals than all but RvP, and he created more goals than any other United player. Plus Welbeck has no chance of scoring 20 goals a season unless he takes penalties against an unconscious keeper. Cleverley has no chance of being world class unless the definition of world class is an England international.

I 100% concur syd

21 Jul 2013 23:58:10
Syd didn't keep going on about cleverly being worldclass at all last season, I never seen him use them words once. I ain't cleverlys biggest fan but all syd done was say how cleverly deserves a fair chance when some would repeatedly slate him. Some people do half talk out there backsides on this website. What is jreds obsession with syd anyway? SSB.

22 Jul 2013 01:33:34
Cleverley is an average squad player, at best

Jred, telling porkies again. No surprise there. Like SSB has said, all I done last season was defend Cleverley by saying he deserves a fair crack of the whip. I never said "all last summer" that Cleverley was going to be world-class. In fact I said Cleverley has the potential to be world-class ONCE in 2011. You need to stop telling lies or your nose will keep growing.

Sydney!

Mick

I am glad to say that so far I have been proved wrong and I hope the good work started with SAF and Steele is continued with Moyes and his new GK coach.

Tactics played a big part in helping DDG so we will see if Moyes does change to the higher lined defending if that effects DDG progression.

I hope not.

Back tracking again syd
Jred

"And he (Sydney) also said that Jack Rodwell will be better than Jack Wilshere. Ouch. "

Have the balls to leave a name.

I said Rodwell will be just as important to England as Wilshere in the future. I do not believe this now as Rodwell's injuries have prevented him from progressing the way he would have done. I did see a Wilshere/Rodwell midfield partnership in the future. It's still possible, but Rodwell has never got over the persistent injuries. Rodwell at 16 had so much potential, it's a real shame he hasn't fulfilled it.

Sydney!

Syd
You went on and on about clevs all last summer you were trying to tell me we would build our midfield around him etc, all I did at the time was say I didn't rate him as highly as you but I didn't think fergy wouldn't invest heavily in cm as he would give clevs a chance.
welbeck the same, not a bad young player but 20 goals a season main striker for United not for me last summer, even if we hadn't bought rvp.
Bale, well how you can still maintain he's not good enough to be a lw is mental.
Even ddg, it was only a few months ago you had convinced yourself we were going to sign begovic so that meant United regreted buying ddg and someone from the scouting department should be held responsible, again mental.

It's all about opinions and everyone on the site has a different one especially on Rooney, so before telling people there daft, dumb naive let's just wait and see what happens because every one can be wrong.
Jred

Ha ha ha. hilarious!
Did I really just read somebody putting Tom Cleverley will be world class.
Im speechless!

Simmo

And I still believe that up until January/February time the club were looking at bringing in a different keeper in the summer unless DDG improved. And I still believe that keeper was Begovic. And I still believe that up until January/February SAF and Steele believed they had made a blunder spending £18m on DDG. I have always said Bale is a good player, but that he isn't worth the dosh being talked about as a left-winger. He cannot play against a small, quick fullback like Rafael and is kept out of the game. He is a much better player central, but I maintain that he is nothing special at all on the left-wing. Too good to be just a left-back, not quite good enough to be an out and out winger, so I thought a left wing-back would have been better for him. Bale on one side, Valencia on the other. Two centre-backs with Jones as the defensive midfielder. Pack the midfield and that would have been my line-up back then. Since then Bale has played centrally and he has found his best position. A good player, but not worth the fees being bandied about.

I haven't called anyone dumb or daft. You just do not like me having an opinion on Rooney.

Sydney!

Syd
rooney, bale, clevs, welbeck evra to name a few.
Opinion is great it makes the site
Jred

Steele and fergy both said on a few occasions they new what they were getting, most people could see ddg potential.
I don't think fergy steel or many on the site had any regrets in buying ddg
Jred

Jred, Sure, now they have no regrets. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but MU were looking at goalkeepers around Christmas time due to them not being happy with the goalkeeping situation. Situations change and DDG improved. Now poor Begovic has been left in limbo. He tells everyone he is leaving in the summer, Stoke buy Butland as a replacement and now Begovic is in limbo.

Sydney!

I would of though lindergard position would of been far more under threat than ddg.
I honestly think fergy and steel would of been able to see the potential ddg had and would therefore have no regrets
Jred

"I would of though lindergard position would of been far more under threat than ddg.
I honestly think fergy and steel would of been able to see the potential ddg had and would therefore have no regrets
Jred"

Couldn't agree more Jred. I think to strengthen the goalkeeping department we would have sold Lindegaard and replaced him with Begovic. Then rotated the two of them like we did with Lindegaard. That is what I thought we were planning to do, but I think there is no need now. DDG was excellent for the 2nd part of the season and I am glad he will get a new deal.

Sydney!

Syd
Really because I thought at time you thought ddg was on his way out hence the United regret buying him.
I'm sure a few disagreed and pointed out it was more likely to be linders
Jred

21 Jul 2013 18:09:27
Ed001's Note - both. No idea why United have gone public. I would guess, and it is just a guess, that Fellaini isn't seen as a big enough buy so they have gone publicly after Fabregas just to give the appearance of at least trying for big names. Just to give Moyes time to show he can get results with the players he chooses to bring in and get the fans behind him. Right now, he is not going to be the scapegoat if a deal falls through, he will get sympathy from the fans and that will help him find his feet and settle in. }

I think that is a really interesting comment as the whole fabergas bid seems a bit strange to me.
United seem to of been very public about it more so than the supposed thiago interest.
It also came right on the heels of thiago choosing Munich so was a good way for Woodward to deflect any possible criticism for not wrapping the thiago deal up or even make out we were never interested in thiago to start with
Also fabergas came out straight away and said he was happy at barce we normally sound players out a bit better than that.
Hope we are after him and get him but I think I might agree with the ed on this, what are other people's thoughts
Jred

We have been pretty public on this, it reminds me of the RvP pursuit. We were very open on him too, but that's because we knew we had him in the bag and all was left was to agree a deal with Arsenal. Perhaps it's all about agreeing a price with Barcelona and Cesc is ours? Who knows, but we are generally a private negotiator.

Sydney!

I think we have been given sufficient encouragement from some quarters that Cesc will consider his position if Barca accept a bid and there might be some at Barca who are encouraging the bid since they do need the money for a center back and with the Neymar signing and Messi improved contract. Also Cesc did say that "If Barcelona decide to sell me, then it would be different of course" or something along those lines.

If we were to token bid, imo Ronaldo or Bale would have been far better choices to appease supporters. Going public with a chase for a player and missing out is more damaging than doing some good. If we sign Fellaini after missing out on Cesc it will be portrayed as "Fellaini and Everton quality players instead of Cesc" which won't go down well.

Surely you agree with this jred?

I think we are simply trying to exhaust the possibility of Fabregas completely before going for someone like a modric. Personally I would be happy with Modric, Di Maria, Coentrao and all of them are available one way or the other. People may perceive them as Real rejects but I think they would complete our team and are all very good players.

REDFAITH

I may be wrong but did arsenal not make Rvp transfer public can't really remember.
Redfaith
YeR all three are good players and madrid is a circus so you should never judge just because they never reached the heights at madrid.
You make a good point with Ronny and bale but does fabergas also act as a bit of a " thiago never turned us down he was never a target " as well.
All of your post makes sense but I also think a lot of what the ed says makes sense to.
It just all seems a bit strange to me but maybe it's the difference between gill and Woodward.
But the one thing I really understand is why would barce sell fab xavi will be 34 this year so he won't play every game if they sell fab they would be short
Jred

Maybe we have finally learned that to get anywhere these days transfer wise, you have to go public to put pressure on players, clubs, agents etc. We have pretty much always kept it quiet but in recent summers this hasn't really worked. Maybe we are playing chelsea, Real, City etc at their game, so let's see if it works.

If it works for these other clubs then I have no problem, I do think our way was the right way, but in the modern game you have to do anything possible to get ahead, so bring it on!

Brendan81

Jred, Ferguson confirmed our interest in RvP the exact same way as Moyes did with Cesc.

Sydney!

"Obviously Arsenal have given out the fact that we've made a bid for him, " Sir Alex told MUTV.

"We try to keep business as close as possible to us until the moment we conclude a deal. There's no point talking about something that might not happen.

Sure about that syd
Jred

It makes me wonder was Thiago a real target or a smoke screen? I mean we wouldn't have gone after both Fabregas and Thiago therefore either Fabregas is a spontaneous target or Thiago was never of enough interest to us.

Ozwald

Actually Jred, the ed is also saying that Moyes did not see Thiago as physical enough for the EPL and we never went all in for him but just sat there doing nothing even though we knew exactly what needed to be done.

I really don't understand the point in going for Cesc, making it public and then missing out. How is it going to appease the fans or get them behind Moyes? It will surely be perceived as United and Moyes cannot attract the top players.

REDFAITH

There is no difference Jred. Neither SAF then or Moyes were first to break the news. They just both confirmed a bid when they never needed to.

Sydney!

Syd
My op was "I may be wrong but did arsenal not make Rvp transfer public can't really remember. "
jred

Redfaith
As I said in my second post all of your comment makes sense there's nothing I disagree with.
But I also think the ed gives a interesting point of view.
He seems to know his stuff and if he's right it raises some interesting questions
Jred

And my OP was: "We have been pretty public on this, it reminds me of the RvP pursuit. We were very open on him too, but that's because we knew we had him in the bag and all was left was to agree a deal with Arsenal. Perhaps it's all about agreeing a price with Barcelona and Cesc is ours? Who knows, but we are generally a private negotiator. "

I didn't say we made the RvP transfer public, I said we have been pretty public on this. IE confirming that we have made a bid/s. SAF didn't need to confirm the RvP interest and Moyes didn't need to confirm the Cesc interest. But we chose to do so when we usually remain silent during negotiations IE Kagawa, Powell, Buttner, Smalling, DDG, Lindegaard, Young etc etc. We have chosen to confirm we have an interest in Cesc the exact same way we chose to confirm our interest in RvP.

Did we sign RvP? Or was that just a token bid?

Sydney!

Syd
Nobody said it was a token bid I simply said the ed made an interesting point,
But I have no doubt you are more in the know.
Jred

Back tracking Jred?

Sydney!

"Hope we are after him and get him but I think I might agree with the ed on this, what are other people's thoughts
Jred"

You clearly state that you agree with the editor that MU are making token bids for Cesc Fabregas.

Sydney!

Syd
Lol " I think I might agree"
Hardly convincing am I.
Backtracking, I think your clutching at straws
I honestly don't no what's going on and won't pretend I do.
Like I Said everything redfaith said makes sense but also what the ed says also makes sense to me.
But I'm sure your more in the know than all of us.
Jred

I haven't pretended to be more in the know about the Cesc situation. I know nothing about what's going on. Good attempt at a swerve though ;)

Sydney!

Syd,
It's no swerve like I said
" I think I might agree"
I'm really not sure
Jred

23 Jul 2013 09:49:13
@Jred

Was just posting what the ed said here mate, for the others to have a look at who may not be going onto the Barcelona site. That's all.

I agree, the eds are more often than not spot on and what the ed has said about Thiago and Fabregas is worrying, if its true.

Personally, after Moyes' latest interview, I think we are just trying to completely exhaust the possibility of him signing, before moving onto other targets. And to be honest, he is worth it. Moyes also makes an interesting point about the first signing having to be the right one. I really think once we sign a big name hopefully, the other deals and signings will start coming in.

That said, I eventually expect Cesc to stay at Barcelona.

REDFAITH

23 Jul 2013 10:05:09
@Jred

What is also interesting to me is that Ed001 has been informed that Moyes didn't see Thiago as physical enough for the Premier League and once Moyes was installed as the manager we did not push ahead with Thiago even though we knew what was needed to be done.

Perhaps Moyes has his heart set on signing Cesc and believes we can pull it off?

REDFAITH

21 Jul 2013 17:18:43
Greetings from the south of France where I am holidaying. Some absolutely brilliant news today and one in the eye for those amongst you that say people like me and John from Denton and all the rest of IMUSA who spend our time fighting for our club against those American leaches. Well they have now decided to give us the words Football Club back on our badge. It may not mean a lot to some of you. But symbolically it means a lot to many like minded supporters.

I completely agree Kloot mate.

Never imagined Kloot as the type to go on holiday "chez nous " in the south of France. Great news by the way

Mick

Those leeches that have funded a number of prem titles and a CL trophy?

Grow up Kloot!

Real fans holiday in Manchester

Fighting with those 'horrible leeches' who had absolutely nothing to do with removing the words 'football club' from our badge?

I am glad to hear that 'football club' will be returning to the badge - but it was removed back in '99 (a full six years before the Glazers came in) and so is hardly a 'victory' against the Glazers!

redseven

It's a win win plan surely? They will gain some level of respect from the "Glazer out" brigade based on sentiment. But really they are going to make a fortune out of merchandise sales once they reintroduce it.

Gar

I AM KLOOT has all this time just been SAF venting ;)

21 Jul 2013 19:24:42
I completely agree with you for once Kloot mate. About time we regained some of our identity. What part of the south of France are you in? I went to Meze last year and it was lovely. Either way have fun.

When I read that news in the paper today, it gave me the biggest smile since SAF lifted the trophy in May. The fact it was taken out was a disgrace.

Brendan81

No name poster them leeches haven't funded anything, whatever they have used wasnt there own money. that's the reason were now still £360 million in the red and paid out hundreds of millions in interest payments

Ahhhh. John Denton. I guess your Kloots Lover?. you have been to the same school of Anti Glazer brainwash?

SAF said the glazers always backed him, we have been more successful since they took ownership, and the debt is reducing. We're a much bigger brand now etc etc!

Time to put your green and gold flags away as more and more of us TRUE fans are behind our great owners!

No name poster, true fans of utd don't sell out to the yankee dollar. they took over a team at its peak that still won trophys until the sale of ronnie slowed the winning down. saf would never bite the hand that was feeding him a mega bucks salary, and was probably to blame for there buyout due to his greed over the rock of gibralta. we got lucky in moscow when terry slipped and got absolutely destroyed in rome and at wembley 2 games alone that should of lead to investment of world class players in midfield, but it never happened. that's either down to fergie not being tactically aware or the fact he wasnt given the funds to overhaul the midfield. the famous phrase no value in the market springs to mind which I truly hope we don't hear repeated in 6 weeks time, all they've brought to the party is debt but hey god bless america.
johndenton

21 Jul 2013 16:58:26
How many of you agree that Marek Hamsik is an example to modern day mercenary players. The guy has completed 6 seasons at Napoli and at 25 years of age is yet to peak.

Old Trafford material IMO. Agree?

Gone off the radar a bit but I think he is a very good player
Jred

Good player but he would cost a fortune which is why nobody has been in for him. Napoli seem to think he is worth £30m+ somehow.

Great player, people like Suarez could learn a lot from him.

It's not what Napoli think the player is worth, it is about the player, he doesn't wants to leave.

21 Jul 2013 15:33:24
Okay guys I've been watching George Best videos all day, so here is a question for you all, Ronaldo or Best? Who was better? For me it's tight but I've got say George Best, but the problem for George was he isn't held as highly as he should because of his off field problems, as Matt Busby said he was to good to coach he had it all, and pele called him the best player in the world! Cristiano is the best player I've ever seen live and I really want him back, every time he got the ball I expected something new, but cristiano played with better footballs, lighter boots, better pitches and with more protection than Best. So guys I want to hear you opinions on who is better, Ronaldo or Best? For me best.

George Best was more talented while Cristiano is the hardest working player ever to touch a ball. If Best had Ronaldo's work ethic, we probably wouldn't be talking about Pele and Maradona as the 2 best players ever.

Mick

I saw Best from his debut in 1963 and the vast majority of his home games. Ronaldo doesn't even come close. That is how good George was.
SOC

Ronaldo, as a pro footballer he is the perfect example of what the perfect athlete should be, with Ron it is like someone made him to play football. He is far fitter and faster than best and his game all round is more developed than anyone we have seen. I know this is because football has developed but if you put Best in this era he would be good but too easily tired/ distracted. If you put Ronaldo in Bests era he would have still strived to have a perfect life and to be the best.

1redarmy

No question about. It George was the Best. End of

I have had the privilege of seeing them both
and my vote goes to George best player I've ever seen not quite has fast has Christian but skilful, brave
a real artist.
His off field activities surely shortened his career, and because he played for N. IRELAND he never got to play at a World Cup a stage he would have graced.
No Ronnie rightfully gets the plaudits great player handles himself perfectly both on and off field, but Georgie the flawed genius the standout choice for me "EL BEATLE".

I saw George play & that ball only left his boot when he wanted it to, and that as on pitches that were like ploughed fields. Imagine what he could do on these plush meadows they play on today. GENIOUS. daleman55

Thanks guys I'm too young to have seen best but 1redarmy you're argument there isn't great because now a days players like Ronaldo have better nutritional advice, better developed training methods and rehabilitation, they have more advanced fitness coaches, so if best played in this era he would be as fit if Ronaldo played in best's era he would have been as fit as best because the sports science and coaching has progressed from the 60's

Saw George v Chelsea, he picked the ball up outside his own penalty area and got kicked by almost every player in the Chelsea team before cooly slotting it home. Ronaldo would have hit the deck first tackle.

Your right it is so tight i'd plump for bestie. Just mind u

George best unprofessional like rooney off thepitch ronaldo not only an amazing player who has the ariel ability and setpiece ability far ahead of best but a genuiene example of hw far hardwork can get a player. Players like best and rooney get more credit thn they deserve may be because their british where as ronaldo isnt. Best was a top player no doubt but ronaldo is somwthing else

Ronaldo for me.
Take in to consideration everything.
The fact that today's game is More Physically demanding (albeit less agressive).
Diet, training, strict regime,.
With the money involved the stakes are higher too so more pressure.
Ronaldo proved himself at 2 of the biggest clubs in the world and his record is simply astonishing.
Look at what the have both won.
Its called progress.
The world record for 100m sprint gets beaten every year or so because humans naturally progress.
I love george best but a lot of people do get all nostalgic with things like this.
Imagine a player like Ronaldo playing back in the 60's, I don't think anyone could get near him?
this is someone who sprinted 96m in under 10seconds in football boots on grass!

Best was a genius, but Ronaldo is a genius who can do more.

Two great feet, good in the air, fast, strong, scores more goals.

Ronaldo all day.

21 Jul 2013 14:39:02
"But we would need a replacement first. "

What like RvP? Or Kagawa in the hole? Or Cesc in midfield? Cesc in midfield along with RvP & Kagawa will more than compensate for Rooney.

Sydney!

Yeah but Cesc hasn't signed and Kagawa if moved to the hole will need to be replaced on the left.

I don't understand how people want to get rid of a player that gets 15+ goals and usually 10+ assists before we have found a direct replacement or a replacement for kagawa on the left.

Then you really haven't been paying attention

21 Jul 2013 14:45:19
Spurs have got themselves a bargain in Nacer Chadli. Wouldn't have complained about having him as left wing cover at 7 mil.

Red Spark

21 Jul 2013 14:36:12
"But we would need a replacement first. "

What like RvP? Or Kagawa in the hole? Or Cesc in midfield? Cesc in midfield along with RvP & Kagawa will more than compensate for Rooney.

Sydney!


Yeah but C

Kagawa was Crap last year would rather have Rooney and would rather have kagawa. Rooney cecs and rvp in the same team why are people like Sydney so desperate to sell Rooney he is one if our best players

No one has said anything about wanting to sell Rooney. You need to open your eyes and understand that there is a very good chance Rooney will not be a MU player next season.

Sydney!

Rooney was not one of our best players last year. He was down right awful to start the season. Kagawa was played out of position almost every game, he's not a winger, sadly his best position is the no. 10.

21 Jul 2013 17:28:20
Rooney wants to leave how blind are some people? MrE

Rooney arguably played his best football at the start of the season so I have no idea what your talking about noname?

Jase

21 Jul 2013 14:02:53
Just something I've noticed on this site.

Everyone goes on about us needing to fix the midfield because its nothing short of an embarrassment but with every suggested replacement that isn't Thiago or Fabregas all of a sudden they shouldn't be allowed anywhere near our club.

Fellaini because he elbowed somebody intentionally, Cantona kicked a FAN but he's considered our best ever player.

Cabaye is all of a sudden over-rated? since when! he's a top little player.

I think that people need to wake up and realize that even the likes of James McCarthy would improve our midfield endlessly.

Having Cabaye, Fellaini and Carrick in a midfield trio will be incredible imo.

I really like Cabaye and think he is very underrated. He is a top little player with good vision and great energy, he can take a great free kick and corner and has a good shot. Imo a midfield of Carrick and Cabaye behind Zaha, Fabregas and Kagawa behind RVP would be brilliant.

Completely agree Moon,

Many players we are being linked with are very possible and would improve us greatly.

Fellaini would add steel and height to us, cabaye good passer and set piece taker. Both can create chances.
given the choice I would add fellaini, Oliver Torres and Gundogen (Unrealistic I know) Cabaye as a second choice.

Moon I am aware your an avid watcher of la liga, what do you think about Oliver torres and his potential?
Jam

Sorry fella but although cabaye maybe better than what we have (your opinion not mine), he wouldn't raise us to the standard to challenge bayern, dortmund barca etc.
that is the type of player we have to be trying to buy or bring through, world class, I think that's where your getting confused, what improves our totally lacking midfield doesn't nesscesarily elevate us to champions league challengers, who would I don't know that's for the manager to assess but cabaye certainly not, if we get fellaini and cabaye we have no. ambition to win another champs league.
in my opinion.

Yeah completely agree Moon. especially regards to Cabaye. Premiership experience. great energy and fairly solid in both attack and defense. I think he would compliment Carrick very well and would most likely grab around 10 goals in a season. good for set pieces too!

If we could manage to get Fabregas and Cabaye that would sort out our midfield issues IMO. To be honest i'd actually prefer Cabaye to Fellaini. personally I think he's got a bit more creativity to his game!

Why buy 6 or 7 out of 10's such as James McCarthy? Only to have to go again next year and buy better? We need a world class midfield if we have any ambition of winning the CL again. Would James McCarthy worry B Munich, Barca or Real? No. We need quality who can compete with the best. Thus the likes of Thiago, Fabregas, Modric, Gunsogan.
People say we can't sign these players but why not? Every player has a price.

Alex Fergusons Condom

My opinions would be purely football based. Fellaini isn't great in the centre of the park. Cumbersome, poor touch, sluggish at times and a not so great range of passing. Cabaye is a decent player, not a great player. For £15m or less he would be a decent buy. The £20m+ quotes that have been mentioned are ridiculous. He isn't worth that. Fellaini would give us something when the ball is lobbed into the box and he would also help out defending balls being lobbed into the box, but his footballing skills are pretty limited. That being said he would add something to the squad, but would be disappointed if he was the only midfielder signed. He lacks any creativity.

Sydney!

Syd

You and I agree on some things and disagree on others but I cometely agree with everything you have said here. Well said

Moon, totally agree mate. If not Fabregas, i'm not against a pair of 10-12m signings to bolster our midfield. Cabaye or someone would be an improvement on Cleverly or Anderson, IMO. Only Carrick (who I've chided in the past but really showed his worth this past season) is worthy of the badge at the moment and we NEED reinforcements. If Fabregas doesn't work, which I doubt it will, we really need to look elsewhere - there are good lads knocking about who could give us more strength in depth. Fellaini - don't like him much, but if he signed, he'd get my backing. Big strong boy, gives his all, that's what I like in a player. Maybe he'd give the likes of Kagawa more freedom, but whatever. I just seriously hope Moyes steps it up and gets 1-2 midfielders, a forward (if Rooney leaves, which he will IMO) and a left winger. a LB would be a luxury, but this summer needs to be the time Moyes refreshes the first team and he'll be good to go- the man will succeed if he's given the financial freedom to give him the base.

RED_SKY

Khedeira was average until people watched him at the 2006 WC.

Di Maria was poor at Benfica at Madrid he's not great.

Busquets was playing in the B team at Barcelona, until a few years ago.

Alexis Sanchez wasn't considered great at Udinese,

Dante and Gustavo were unheard of before Bayern.

Barry is and was terrible player, yet there is a reason he starts most games for City.

.

I guess, what I'm saying is that Fellaini may be 'okay' and Cabaye maybe a 'good but not great' player.

but when these players mix you could potentially have a top draw midfield, or you might not.

Evra, Vidic, Smalling, Carrick, Valencia, Nani, Young, Berbatov, were all 'good but not great players' at some stage in their careers BEFORE Manchester United.

The Moon.

Okay, I understand the point you're getting at Moon, but you're using terrible examples. Khedeira didn't play in the '06 WC, Di Maria was pretty highly rated at Benfica, as was Sanchez at Udinese. And Barry even had a good couple of seasons at Villa.

21 Jul 2013 13:22:26
With chelsea so desperate to get Rooney surely we could get mata involved in the deal, think I'd rather him than fabregas

Dustbin

If and it is a big if Chelsea want Rooney that much I would only consider selling him to a league rival for £35m+ or a p/x with Lukaku, Mata and Ramires being the only players to be interested in.

21 Jul 2013 12:57:34
Sick of reading people slaggin off moyes at utd because he hasn't won any trophies! He was at preston then everton of course he isn't going to have any trophies they are good teams but they are not utd they do not have to players utd have any manager than had to take over from fergie was gona have a to live up to huge expectations. But let's face it moyes is a good manager an utd have a great squad to build on. Any one who slags moyes of is just scared that utd will carry on dominating english football just because there team are not good enough. People need to open there eyes an see we are not going to do a liverpool. utd have heritage and they do not lose that because one great man leaves!

21 Jul 2013 12:14:46
For us this season the transfer window closes on aug 10 because of the early big fixtures we have. all incoming transfers should be done by aug 7 atleast so that it will give some time for the new players to gel in to the team. It is worth to wait only for ronaldo till the deadline day. I wish we should field a fluid attacking team against chelsea at OT.

21 Jul 2013 11:28:36
Press today quote that Chelsea will up their bid to £40 million for Rooney. If we don't accept that then we really need our head looking at.

If Chelsea offered that amount they would need their heads looking at. I think Rooney will go for around £30m to a rival.

Sydney!

But we would need a replacement first.

It will be £24M + wages.

But we are then effectively handing Chelsea the title?

Let him rot in the reserves if he isn't going to knuckle down, and let him risk his World Cup place.

Rick

If that is the real figure. Could just be paper talk.

Supasub

Yeah fresh, let's sell Rooney to Chelsea and give them a 25 goal and 15 assist start. While we lose the same.
Replace him with who?
Nomidfield

Agreed Fresh but its only anygood if you replace Rooney with someone at least comparable another 40m going into the clubs black hole is useless to us

"But we would need a replacement first. "

What like RvP? Or Kagawa in the hole? Or Cesc in midfield? Cesc in midfield along with RvP & Kagawa will more than compensate for Rooney.

Sydney!

I keep seeing NoMidfield saying who can we replace him with but the question is not the assists or goals it is the amount of times he gave the ball away in great places on the pitch last season and lots of great attacks and counters were all broke down due to his awful touch and constant habit of trying to dummy the ball. Imo a front 4 of Zaha/Valencia/Nani, Fabregas, Kagawa and RVP would be deadly.

21 Jul 2013 15:48:45
@Nomidfield.

Rooney will not score 25 goals next season. Not in the league anyway.

I prefer to look at it as giving Chelsea a player who constantly loses the ball in attacking positions hampering their fluid play. A player who has lost his pace and acceleration.

REDFAITH

George really sell Rooney but imagine a front 4 with Valencia and nani. I think I would take my chances with Rooney

21 Jul 2013 11:02:42
can someone tell me the code for the fantasy league. thanks.

15522-6942

TK-Red

21 Jul 2013 09:50:45
Would love to see us go after Toni Kroos. Fantastic player who can play as an attacking or deeper midfielder, can fill in out wide and can play as a second striker. Not sure how much game time he will get at Bayern now with Gotze & Thiago joining their ranks. Thoughts?

GRD

Shaqiri more likely to be sold

I agree.

Well Kroos plays deep for Bayern, considering they only have schweinsteiger and Martinez, with Gustavo likely to leave.

So, IF bayern still do see him as a deep player I'll think he'll stay.

However, if he wants to play more advanced, once you consider that Bayern are trying to force Robben out the door like we are with Rooney, then I think Gotze will operate the RAM role, with Muller and Thiago fighting it out for CAM.

To be honest, I don't think they would even entertain selling Kroos right now, next summer perhaps, but Bayern like us, pride themselves of squad depth.

21 Jul 2013 09:29:04
This window is strange. Normally we do our dealings very quietly and carefully (and often late in the day). This year, it seems to be more 'open'. It looks like our bid for CF is real, (more so than alacantara), so I am wondering what the design is? Is it to drive forward other teams agenda's and action.

If we get CF, that's a major hole filled. Rumours this morining of Rooney to chelsea for 40M (I'd take that) and worry about a replacement later.

But could all this be down to a drive for bale/ronaldo/rooney/fabregas merry go round.

Mikee

Yeah let's sell Rooney to Chelsea and give them 25 goals and 10 assists a season while we lose that.
And let's worry about that later, when Chelsea have won the league by miles.
Good idea!
Nomidfield

LOL Nomidfield, you seriously believe Rooney would get 25 goals and 10 assists for us next season? You really are a dreamer. RvP is our main man and he will get the majority of the goals. He will also be the penalty taker so that automatically knocks 7-10 goals off of Rooney's tally straight away. RvP, Kagawa & Cesc? would more than compensate for Rooney's goals and assists.

Sydney!

21 Jul 2013 11:57:33
NoMidfield play Kagawa in Rooneys place and he will get 10 goals and 20 assists easy. Zaha I think could get into double figures on both and so could a new signing or even nani. The only issue would be if van persie got injured which is why I would ask for lukaku as part of any deal.

So if rooney isn't happy and wants to leave we refuse and keep an unhappy player in the squad who would probably be as disruptive as possible.

Sydney!

I don't understand u mate. what if rooney is played in the RVP position. ! won't he get 25 goals. ? he will surely get that if he plays for chelsea in place of torres.
I have read your many comments but can't understand your reason for underrating Rooney so much. u can hate him but can't ignore him. He is a world class player and every other person knows that. that's the reason mourinho wants him and moyes is refusing to sell. your opinion is for urself. After giving almost a decade of wonderful football u judge him by 1 or 2 years. and btw he scored 20+ goals a year before. and please don't drag the wages and such stuff. judge him by football

Aakrozz

Kagawa playing in his favoured position and Chicharito getting more opportunities more than makes up for Rooney.

REDFAITH

I am a Rooney fan. But clearly there is something wrong. If he wants to go and we get a sensible offer (30-40M) not 20, we should let him move on. Its in the best interests of the team and him.

The facts are nomidfield, Rooney has played 11 seasons and only TWICE got over 20 goals. He probaly avergaes around 12-15. Given a strengthened midfield I think we can cover the gap.

Obviously I'd prefer to have a replacement forward lined up (but I am not so sure there is one right now).

mikee

"he is a world class player and every other person knows that"

No he isn't world-class. The only time Rooney come close to "world-class" was in the 2009/10 season. Since then he has gone down hill slowly, until last season when he drastically went down hill. He is still a good player, but you are overrating him massively.

"that's the reason mourinho wants him and moyes is refusing to sell"

Uh no, Mourinho wants him because Chelsea have missed out on Falcao, Hulk & Cavani and have run out of other options. Moyes is saying he isn't for sale to keep his price up. The club are nudging him out the door, don't be so naive.

"what if rooney is played in the RVP position"

Are you seriously suggesting we drop or sell RvP to accommodate Wayne Rooney? The reason RvP was signed in the first place was because the manager could see Rooney was starting to dip. Too many people on this site feel we owe Rooney a debt for his contribution over the years. Rooney is a footballer who gets a high salary to play the game he loves. We can be grateful for Rooney's contribution, but there is no room for sentimentality in football. Rooney is not the player he was a few seasons ago and now is the best time to sell him. The only thing I hope is that we get in a replacement first, albeit not a direct replacement as we have RvP & Kagawa. Cesc for midfield would be great IMO.

Sydney!

I'm not at all sure about kags as I explained yesterday, good player but I'm not sure he is right for the EPL or moyes style.
Not sure how he will fit in to a moyes team I actually don't think moyes will play him in the hole that much
Jred

Syd
after going on and on about Rooney if he has a great season next year you really are going to look a bit daft,
I will be honest some of the anti stuff on here drives me round the the bend which is why I have commented on him so often, but what is your fascination with him.
In the last 12 month I don't think I have seen a Rooney thread where you haven't taking the opportunity to preach to people how bad Rooney is.
Jred

Sydney!

Every managers, players and fans know that he is a world class player except u and some of the posters here. I have lots of footballing mates who talk of him highly so I do.
Whether u believe or not. he is a world class striker.

Did Mourinho bid on Falcao, Cavani or Hulk? No. because he knows his man. and Moyes knows how much he is capable of performing hence he is holding up Rooney.

Did I say to drop RVP and play Rooney there? NO! I said if Rooney was played in that position then he would have surely grabbed 20+ goals. U know how many goals he scored a year before, when we had comparatively very few creativity at midfield than last season.

Mark my words but if Rooney is sold to Chelsea. then we will regret when he scores lots of goals considering the midfield chelsea have. and when kagawa will be bullied by all tough, strong players (although kagawa is superb) , most of us going to surely miss Rooney.

He may have a dip in his form but remember. form is temporary but class is permament. He will rise to prove all doubters wrong.

Aakrozz

Jred, where have I said that Rooney is bad? I just see the player without the red tinted goggles on. There is only one of us here with a Rooney fascination and it isn't me mate. I can see Rooney's flaws, you can't.

"after going on and on about Rooney if he has a great season next year you really are going to look a bit daft"

Define "Great season"?

Torres scored 20+ goals last season for Chelsea. Did he have a "great season"? No he never. Torres is in decline, just like Rooney. I would fully expect Rooney to score 25 goals for Chelsea if Frank let him take the penalties. Torres would have scored 30+ goals had he been the penalty taker last season. He's still in decline though.

Sydney!

Aakrozz, you are talking bobbins my friend. Chelsea have missed out on SEVERAL striking targets this summer so Rooney is quite possibly a last resort. Rooney is still a good player and will get goals for whoever he plays for. My argument is that he isn't the player he once was, we have seen the best of him and now is a good time to sell him as long as we get the players we want first.

Sydney!

21 Jul 2013 20:30:58
@Aakrozz.

So let's judge him by the football. His football was poor last season. He constantly lost the ball in attacking positions. He has lost his pace and acceleration that made him world class and now that he can't get past players he gets frustrated.

What if Rooney is played in RVP's position? We would be playing someone who is not better than RVP in that position. Rooney is not a goal poacher or someone who will get something out of nothing inside the box. His hold up play has deteriorated along with his pace.

To sum it up, right now, RVP is the better striker, Kagawa is better "in the hole" behind the main striker than Rooney is, and without his pace and acceleration, Rooney is not world class.

REDFAITH

21 Jul 2013 08:36:34
Our midfield is so lightweight we need
Fabregas fellaini Cabaye and Gustravo
As for Anderson he might as well help
Albert the kit man. Only ever seen one
great performance and that was against
Arsenal a few years back. get rid now!

Can't believe that Anderson is still there, but who will pay money for him? Another fergie cock up to go along with bebe, young, nani, tosic, obertan, bellion. Strange how many crap players he has bought recently.
But we got cr7 so I suppose we can forgive him wasting £58m on the above players!

No name.
Really now. Anderson wasn't a cock up, he had the potential, had a brilliant couple of seasons and then shipped on the weight. Nani was up there with Rooney for a few seasons in being how important he was to the team. Young has shipped in with a fair few goals and assists when needed, he was injured most of last season. Obertan and Tosic had the potential. You could obviously see that, but both couldn't handle playing for united. Bebe, yes, ill give you that one

Fagan

Now list all the fantastic signings Sir Alex made! See u next week scouser!

Good post, I also forgive ol' lord ferg for the pesky cups, leagues, champions leagues I had to endure as a united fan and not to mentiob wasting money on players like cantona, schmeichal, Keane, ronaldo, rvp etc. The man didn't have a breeze about management.

21 Jul 2013 07:59:38
Manchester United have moved around 60 season ticket holders from their seats at Old Trafford - in order to replace them with television cameras.

As reported on the British Broadcasting Channel, I mean seriously who would of believed you had 60 season ticket holders if it hadn't come from such a reliable source.

Is that like a record for you guys?

#terrible-banter!

TAXI!

TK-Red

21 Jul 2013 01:55:39
Just watched the All Stars game and can I just say how refreshing it was to see a winger, Zaha, actually run at a defence. Nani/ Valencia take note.

#ags

Agree completely! I watched him play for the U21 team and wasnt too impressed, but boy did he look promising last night (albeit a preseason game against weak opposition). On a side note, Adnan Januzaj looks quite the player! Would be more than happy for him to be a squad player this year that can rotate into one of the 3 spots behind the striker. Start him off in cup games and if he looks capable increase his role cause he looks top class!

Zaha got great potential always ready to run at people and beat them with pace, januzac looks a special talent and although I think he will get a 1st team chance this season it will be sub appearances plus cup games. I've watched him a lot in the u18 and u21, s and you could see his potential but I think he looks as though he has stepped up a bit again and his pass over the top down the left wing yesterday was class

21 Jul 2013 01:34:20
I can't help but think United know Cesc won't move from Barca and the reason the bid was made public was to appease us (the fans) and make us think we were really after the top talent.
I hope its not the case and Fabregas does play for us next season but something tells me it will be Fellaini who we will see come into the united midfield. Not a bad buy if utilised correctly, an improvement on a lot of our current midfielders, and versatile if needed.
A partnership of either Fab or Fellaini with Carrick is nice to think of but IMO both don't (Fab and Fellaini) score enough from their roles, Yes when Fellaini was used as an Attacking midfielder/striker he did grab a few, but he would only get a berth as a cm.
Cabaye, Gudogen, and Vidal would be great for our midfield, But Vidal is unrealistic and Cabaye may not be everyones Choice but he would do a few jobs for our midfield, Gundogen is my personal favourite. this guy is still young but has immense talent and shown it with Dortmund. I am surprised one of Bayern, Madrid, Barca, or the rich ones havnt tried to court him.
His stats are amazing and I know moyes is a fan of german football so I would think he is on the radar. Hopefully a surprise to come in the coming weeks
Jam

Cabaye must not set foot anywhere near united. How many goals has he scored in last two years?
Gundogan is superb though.
Nomidfield

21 Jul 2013 00:01:23
Mick, you asked earlier what my view is on Milan Badelj. Well i've been busy all day and have only just managed to get on my laptop.

So I really rate Milan Badelj, he does get through a lot of defensive work in midfield. And his driving mazy runs are a joy to behold. My only concern with him is his passing isn't always as sharp and crisp as it should be. And he does have a tendancy to just sit and not be too adventurous.

I do worry whether he would move the ball quick enough and well enough for a top side. But he does deserve the chance.

I think we need a creative force in the middle, and i'm not sure Badelj quite cuts it at the highest level.

For me now Thiago has gone to Bayern the best choices are Gundogan, Fabregas, Modric and Koke (if were going to go abit younger). No one else is quite at the required level imo.

Well I do have my reservations over his ability to do the " simple " stuff in midfield, just sit back and keep the ball rolling.

But in terms of sheer passing ability, Badelj is quite the pass master.

Now you see if you look at Pirlo, who is considered one of the best passers in the history of the beautiful game, you could see his stats are not as good as some would think.

He averages a bit over 80% passing accuracy, but that's what his role is. Same goes for Xabi Alonso. You always see him hitting long balls, shifting the play and opening the field. You rarely see Xabi taking the ball from a defender and laying it on to the nearest player.

Badelj is in that mold. When he takes the ball, he always looks forward. He averages over 7 long balls per game ( same as Carrick ). He does, t lack in passing ability. He is a very direct player, probably due to the very straightforward approach of Hamburg and his vision is what makes him a good partner to Carrick, who would do the " Busquets " role, controling the tempo while Badelj feeds the forwards.

What worries me about him though is that, when under pressure, his decision making isn't the best.

When you look at Scholes, you can actually imagine him playing a game of chess, with more than 1 approach in his mind. His next pass is always ready and that's why you never see him beeing disposessed. That's what makes him such a genious.

Milan on the other hand doesn't have that " ability " if you'd like. Very few do as a matter of fact. When he recieves a pass under pressure, he relies on his skills to release himself and when he gets outnumbered, he tends to just release the ball in what could only be called a pitiful attempt to pass. Carrick had the same problem a couple of years back, but he worked on it and improved. I have no doubts Badelj would be able to work on that too.

I think a transfer for him would be just as unexpected as Chicharito's, and it might, just might, be crazy enough to be a masterstroke.

Mick