Manchester United Banter Archive October 21 2012

21 Oct 2012 22:05:49
Cant believe doubters of welbeck, he always looks dangerous, yes not the best finisher but at least it looks as if something will happen when he's on the pitch and not stale like it has been at times this session. He has class touch when ball played into his feet with short passes, which is type of football it looks like we are aiming for.

Was watchin qpr game today n granero looked class even got stuck in at times. Looks a bargain at 9mill n could easily fit into our midfield. Is good age at 25 and wunt cost the earth

I really rate welbeck and think as a front 3 with Rooney and rvp he will flourish, he took his header brilliantly, he was so unlucky when he hit the bar, Danny will not be a 30 a season type player but I think he will get about 15 this year and he's still young and learning, remember when Rooney first game it took him 3 years to get above 20 goals, stay patient with Danny he will be a great player for us, I have no doubt about that.

Caolán.

For every goal he scores he wastes 3 chances. He will score the spectacular goal and then be wasteful. I don't think he will ever be a natural goal scorer.

21 Oct 2012 19:21:55
We've started a trend of buying young English talent.
Smalling & Jones last year & Goss & Powell this year for the near future. The Keane brothers were also scouted from Huddesfield I believe at 16.

Thomas Ince just might be the next promising English youngster to come in.

With Amos, Johnstone, Thorpe, Blackett, Barmby, Lingard, Cole, Tunnicliffe, Harrop, Pearson & Wilson doing well in the U21's & U18's we seem to be in a good position with home grown talent.

What would be our best English Man United XI. 4-3-3

GK Amos, Jones, Smalling, Ferdinand, LB Thorpe, Cleverley Carrick, Scholes, Young, Welbeck, Rooney

Subs: Johnstone, M.Keane, Blackett, Tunnicliffe, Powell, Lingard, W.Keane

How do you think that squad would get on at Old Trafford against Westham, Wigan, Norwich?

Swap Blackett for Thorpe who isn't a LB and it wouldn't be a bad team at all.

Sydney!

I rate Johnstone higher than Amos and believe in the next 2 years he will be ahead of Lindegaard.

Caolán.

21 Oct 2012 18:51:18
Let's face it, why would any young player sign with us now? We can't even keep our good young players. Fergie has stopped integrating them into the squad. When we bought Ronaldo he was raw but got playing time. I felt sorry for Pogba, not being on the bench while the likes of Gibson, Park and Giggs were getting games in midfield. Now he is playing for Juve and their midfield is miles ahead of ours. So, he's good enough for Juve and not good enough for us. What horrible man management by Fergie. We hear this crap that we have a youth policy but none of them get to play. I read that some of you say we have great players in the reserves but none get to play. Why is there a growing discontent among players on the reserve team? Maybe they know that they are better then the players ahead of them.

I'm sure he would have played more often had he signed a new deal and didn't try his best to pimp himself out to other clubs in Europe. Pogba was my fave player and anyone can vouch for that, but he was never going to sign a new deal whether he played or not. It just would have improved his profile somewhat and it would have been harder for the fans to accept when he did leave in the summer. He was always leaving.

Sydney!

This is an embarrassingly short-sighted way of seeing things. there are so many other factors to consider when integrating players to the senior squad besides raw talent. the most important thing is how the team functions as a unit and there's a massive step from being a talented 18 yr old to being a professional footballer for Manchester united. ask rafael, fabio, clevs, jones, smalling, welbeck, macheda if there's a problem with our youth policy.
As for judging the manager's "man management" based on the club being unable to retain pogba is simply inaccurate. I get your frustration as pogba will probably be a great player but this really has nothing to do with the manager's ability to select the right squad, the dynamics involved can be complex and many factors we are not aware of would be considered so we might aswell trust the best manager in the game instead typing posts that make utd fans look ignorant.

Brendan

Syd, stop defending the club. The simple fact is SAF refuses to play the youngsters. He persists with Scholes and Giggs and doesn't give anyone a real chance, despite some huge potential. He is not the manager he was.

AJH

Maybe if he played more he would have signed a new deal, who knows? You cant deny that he has massive potential at the one position we need the most. Just a major f*** up when you look at the situation.

AJH, I am not defending anyone. The editor has told us why Pogba chose to leave and that has nothing to do with the manager or the club.

Sydney!

No name, Pogba will be a great player and I was devastated to lose him, but he was angling for a move before last season even kicked off. The club were fighting a losing battle.

Sydney!

Syd
fergy said we offered him the best ever deal for a young player so he must of wanted him to stay and at least thought there was a chance.
if he was prepared to offer him such a good deal why not give him some playing time as well.
jred

If pogba's mind wasnt 100% made up about going or stopping I would think watching us get beat by blackburn with raf playing CM may of made it up for him
jred

Interesting discussion guys. I look at this another way and assume these guys in the reserves are not good enough and that is why SAF does not play them.

If that is the case, who wants to defend the manager and his decision making on where we have spent our money over the last 3 years given the state of our midfield. we have spent over 100 million.

Everyone around here makes fun of LFC and I believe they have wasted so much money on the wrong players over a number of years and are paying for it now.

Our own transfer activity and where and who we have spent money on over the last few years has been utter rubbish and today we are left with a team that has a woeful midfield, average wingers, aging back four.

What is more upsetting is when I read that we are about to blow a big chunk of our transfer kitty on a winger or forward again and think this can't be right.

I can understand if we are not going to buy for the middle of the pitch, then we should have people coming through the youth ranks but that is not happening. This has been going on for 3 years now and its complete bs.

Personally I don't care where they come from Academy or going out and buying but this state of no man land is very frustrating.

Shahram

21 Oct 2012 15:35:41
Does anyone know the situation with Petrucci? Rumours seem to be creeping in that he may be on his way out. Why are talented youngsters not being given a chance at this club?

Because they aren't patient enough. They want the big money and lifestyle before earning it. United stood by Petrucci for two years through injury, if he left on a free he would be a disgrace in my eyes.

Sydney!

Aren't patient enough? I disagree, our midfield is crap and these youngsters should get games. Pogba played and scored yesterday vs Napoli, would he have ever got in a game of that importance with us? On top of that Juve midfield is miles ahead of ours. I watch other teams and see youngsters get a chance, why not with us? What good is it to have supposedly great young players and they never get a chance now with us? The players ahead of them aren't world class other than Rooney and RVP. Give youth a chance.

Personally i think its rubbish he only signed a new deal a few months ago.

To be honest Sydney, how patient would you be in this situation? He is captain of the reserves, head and shoulders above the players he is playing against. And yet despite this he still doesn't make the bench for League Cup games...This does not show any faith in him from the boss.

You're talking c**p.

Fresh!

Serie A: No Country for Young Men.
Is one of the weakest leagues in Europe.

BornInToIt

Fresh, there is other reasons why he isn't making the bench for the League Cup games. Probably the same reasons why he hasn't been playing in the reserves lately. Injury/illness? disciplinary reasons? He has had two seasons out with injury and has played around the same amount of football as Januzaj and Daehli who are three years younger than him. He will get his chance when he is deemed ready.

Sydney!

I agree with Fresh! Excuse me Sydney but you are not making any sense. For the past year and a half Petrucci has been our best reserve player by a mile. He worked very hard to get himself back on track and became captain. In the summer he could have left for free and he was offered contracts by the likes of inter where he would be making twice as much as he is beeing paid.

But no, he didnt leave, he decided to stay and fight for his place, repay the faith f the club in him.

And yet we go out and but ourselves another overrated english talent, who is not even half the player petrucci is atm. And despite having shown no loyalty whatsoever to the club and not having done anything of note, he makes his debut before Petrucci who isnt even in the cl squad while players who do not possess half of his class and ability are making their debuts and making the bench and traveling with the first team for the cl games.

And during all of this, Petrucci is probably sitting in his house wondering what he did wrng, and then he finally realises that staying with manchester united might be the worst decision he might make.

When he sees Paul Pogba, who he outshone last year, go to a club and play regular football in a worldclass team with worldclass players, and he is benching them. He is benching the likes of Pirlo, Vidal and Marchisio, while petrucci has no chance whatsoever to bench a 39 yo giggs.

if i was him, i wouldnt even consider not leaving.

Mick

Serie A maybe weak but I saw Juve draw at Chelski in the Champions League. Do you think we are better than Juve? I think it would be a good match and if we played Scholes and Carrick we would get torn apart.

Mick, Powell is much further along in progression than Petrucci is. There is also no proof that Petrucci has turned Inter down to sign a new deal. He could be stalling in the exact same way as Pogba did for all we know and he could well have agreed to join Inter in the summer unofficially of course? Or the manager may want him to play a bit more football before chucking him in at the deep end. Powell, Cleverley, Anderson, Scholes, Carrick, Fletcher are all ahead of Petrucci whether we like it or not.

Sydney!

Petrucci has played enough football and has sufficiently impressed to become the reserve team captain. If the reserve team captain can't get into the first team what chance do the others have? He is still further down the line than Daehli etc. He has to get his chance soon or he should leave for the good of his career - I very much that he stays though.

Fresh!

I wouldn't say that Powell is that much further ahead. He has gone from League 2 football to Premier League. Petrucci has been training and playing with and against Premier League players in training and a fairly high standard reserve league.

Fresh!

Fresh, he is reserve team captain due to his age. The same reason Henderson is the U21 skipper. Petrucci is the oldest player in the reserves who has been at this club the longest.

Sydney!

David De Gea, Phil Jones, Chris Smalling, Evans, Cleverley, Welbeck, Kagawa, Buttner & Rafael.

All players who will play a lot of games this season, what else do they have in common? they're all young lads.

Show me another club which has an 18 year old in their first XI, against a huge club?

IF certain clubs do have that sort of player then it just shows how much talent the individual possesses.

Petrucci is currently 2 years behind on his development, if he stays patient he will be introduced in the same way as Cleverley and we'll probably see him when he's 22/23.

Is it the right way to do it? I don't know I'm not a manager.

The only club with a younger squad than us is Norwich, take out Scholes & Giggs and we'd probably have the youngest squad in the EPL.

So stop all this nonsense about us never playing kids!

We play kids, just not our own. But I believe we don't start our youngsters because we think that they should possess the hunger and desire to keep playing at the level they're at until WE say they're ready to step up.

The Moon.

21 Oct 2012 20:02:54
Sydney

You missed a 39 yr old winger from that list too.
Also Pogba left and rightly so after watching Gibson Park and Fabio all starting in CM ahead of him.
Petrucci will not get a chance so long as Fergie is there and I find it laughable you trying to somehow vindicate the manager for not sticking to his word and give these players a chance esp Pogba (if we dont play the kid then we will lose him) thats what he said at the start of last season and guess what he didnt play him and we lost him.

It p1sses me off then Fergie trying to pin the blame on the kid when he does decide to go somewhere else to get games.

Devil Dust.

DD, we know Pogba was trying to leave before last season kicked off. The editor has made it very clear that Pogba was always going to leave and playing time had naff all to do with it. Choose not to believe that if you want, but I do believe that. Pogba was on the verge of breaking into the Manchester United first team and he left, what does that tell you? The kid was 18/19.

Sydney!

Syd

Pogba himself says different so yeah I choose to believe the kid as early in the season he was saying he wanted games and wanted to become a great at the club..what does that tell you ?

He was on the verge of the first team ??

He has already played more league games for Juve than he did for United ??

Devil Dust.

For me Pogba's breakthrough moment should have been Blackburn at home. However SAF went with Rafael and Park in the middle. To me that would have been the moment to say I trust you , go out there and show me but SAF went with experience.

It was that moment that likely made up Pogba's mind , the managers decision not to trust his best youth player. You just cannot defend that position.

Add to that we lost that game. Scholes is then brought out of retirement again pushing Pogba further back. There are then pronouncements that Scholes has years left in him. How must Pogba have felt?

I wonder if the likes of Sydney have been good at sport at a young age, bursting to get in the team, believing you are better than what is there , feeling the injustice , perceived or otherwise that you should be in that team instead of those old experienced players on the downward slope.

Since then we have heard about Pogba and his greed , it was all about money not the managers poor decision and I just don't buy it anymore because we are seeing it again, experience before youth. Yet there are still some who would believe the party line, believe that it was all about money, after all the other reason would be an indecisive declining manager who went with experienced players out of position before giving youth a chance.

Red Man

21 Oct 2012 22:30:59
People are missing the point. He was trying to get a transfer before last season began, so maybe Ed2 is right when he says Pogba was always leaving. Devils Dust don't you think lack of playing time sounds better than him saying he left United for future fortunes?

Could it be that if fergy had of played him more he may of decided to stay
jred

22 Oct 2012 00:22:18
Could it be that Ed2 who has many sources, Ed2 who has associates and friends close to people who know about Pogba's reps is actually telling the truth? He doesn't spread gossip so who are we to question what he says?

No name
ed2 seems to know his/her stuff and pogba may well of been after a move , but thats not to say a good run in the first team would not of changed is mind or getting over looked in the blackburn game wouldnt of made his mind up
jred

22 Oct 2012 08:25:02
Because if you listen to Ed2 he said that he was always going to leave and playing time was irrelevant. You are talking about what ifs. Ed2 talks facts.

Personally I think Ed002 knows more about the Pogba situation than he will ever divulge to us. I cannot blame him for keeping quiet as some on here never take in what he says anyway. What he has told us is plain and clear for most that he was never intending to sign a new deal with United. The editor said this over a year ago and it's exactly what happened. People would love to believe that if SAF had played him more often then he would have stayed, but the truth is it wasn't about playing time, it was about promises for future riches like image rights etc. If anyone watches the Paddy Crerand show you will know that Pogba told him he had to leave for better money as he had to put his family first. It was always about the promises of future cash. If people do not believe this then that is their choice, but I know what I believe. One thing for sure is that Pogba is certainly not going to come out and say he left for money reasons. Playing time was always going to be his excuse as it makes him look a better person.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - What I know that I did not detail is the name of the person who was giving the advice to the kid, and what was being told to Pogba about "his future" away from Old Trafford. It was clear from when I first heard - a year or so ago - that he was going to leave regardless of what Manchester United would do and, regardless of a subsequent £3M offer that was made in January. I am a little surprised that this matter has come up again.}

No Name

So Ed2 said Pogba was always leaving and playing time would make no change to that yet SAF was putting him in the team and squads to try and convince him to stay. So you would believe that SAF knows less about whether or not one of his players was leaving than Ed2 on a rumours page?

Get a grip!

Ed2 may well be connected to the t*ts in football or he could be passing on info that in itself is not correct.

He also said Becks was likely off to PSG last Jan yet did that happen?

Apologies Ed as it may seem like im personally attacking you but I am just highlighting how blind faith in believing what has been said to someone without questioning things should never be taken as gospel.

I feel too many on here are more sheep than thinking adults.

Jono {Ed002's Note - You are right, I know nothing. That is obvious from my saying that Beckham was off to PSG when clearly it was never going to happen. Sorry about misleading you all with the likes of Hazard, Moura, Pogba etc.. From now on you can figure it out yourselves - or try asking some of the other Eds to help out.}

Ed002, like I said they never listen. They are always looking for someone to blame and in this instance it's SAF.

Sydney!

21 Oct 2012 14:45:02
I think Sir Alex has hugely misread the support players like Rio and Justin Roberts are receiving from the general public. They see the way the FA fluffed everything over john Terry so he would be free to play in the Euros then a ridiculously small fine and minimum ban. What does Kick it out do or say about it ? Absolutely nothing. I ask you all to ask yourself this question if you had been in Rio's position and it had been your brother what would you have done? worn a tee shirt to save an old mans pride or stood by your brother? I have no time for Rio and his wanna be gangster lifestyle off the field but I believe that he is completely right in his actions and Sir Alex is making himself look foolish and out of touch. I AM KLOOT {Ed001's Note - I am with you on this one. I think you have to accept that it is Rio and Roberts that have suffered racist abuse and follow their lead, not try and tell them what to do. I am not a fan of Rio's persona either, but he has every right to stand up for what he believes in, especially in such a case, a case where he is the one who has suffered, not Ferguson. I found it more embarrassing that all those managers, who have clearly never been on the end of racist abuse, had the cheek to tell players who had, what to do about it!}

Completely agree and had posted earlier on this issue but did not pass the moderators i guess. SAF can not act like a third world dictator and get himself in the middle of a subject that he has no business getting involved in. The days that you run a team like a prison ward are long gone and players today with the money going around will not put up with managers like this.

If this means rio is leaving well good for him because there are plenty of teams who will jump at getting him.

It is becoming a constant thing now where he publicly bashes the players and it is completely wrong.

Shahram

I believe SAF cornered himself with the Jason Roberts comments and to try to hold a three line whip over a very emotive subject is the wrong argument at the wrong time as I alluded to in my previous post. Rio will support his brother and if that is the action that supports his principles then SAF should leave well alone. SAF comments on rio were all about SAF taking a stance and his pride being hurt because in SAFS mind rio showed him up. Poor management of a situation that didn't need hard line leadership and has now become a major issue. This is all about SAF and his ultimate control of everything and is I fear a sign of him losing it

Red Man

As I said on an earlier post, I don't think SAF will actually reprimand Rio but publicly he has to be seen to be supporting the Kick It Out Campaign.

TK-Red

Saf is acting like a spoilt child and has come across as being arrogant.
Saf this is not about u, its aboutrracism in football, so I will suggest you keep quiet on this one and give the relevant players the respect they deserve.
Extremely disappointed with this stupid attitude from a bully of a manger.
We are man united, we should be leading the in trying to stop these things and not acting as some kind of headmaster disciplining his students.
NoMidfield

I agree, the FA and even Hodgson basically stood by Terry (the guilty) over the abused (the innocent) just for footballing reasons. Hodgson and the FA should be ashamed of themselves. So should everyone who stood by Terry and Suarez.

Sydney!

No matter what Fergie thinks, Rio has a right under law to voice his opinion. We all can see that with what went on Serbia this week, The Terry case etc, many black players feel that the Kick out campaign has not worked. Look at the game, how many black managers; board members, tv presenters etc are there in the premier league or on TV. Look at Terry he is still Chelsea captain, he is still being paid an exhorbitant sum of money and yet if i had said what he had said, i would have been sacked. Until we sort our own house out how can we lecture UEFA or FIFA.

I also posted a view which didn't make it (any reasons Eds?). SAF has no business telling Rio he has to wear a t shirt - he needs to stay out of what is a very sensitive subject. After what happened to Anton, Rio should be free to make his own decisions.

AJH

Can't understand how SAF dropped the ball with this one.
It's not like it was just any old black player - it was the brother of the victim!
How did he seriously think Rio would react?
Any manager has the right to impose rules on players regarding footballing issues that affect the club, but not even SAF has the right to try and dictate how a player should voice his opinion on a moral issue that affects him personally.

StevieK

Chelsea say Terry has been fined a large sum, but I'm sure that they will pay it back to him at the end of the season in bonuses, that's even if they took it at all.

Sydney!

Fergie or utd dont run the kio campaign so fergie is being a bully,i doubt legally they can fine rio for something that wouldnt be in his contract .fergie needs to let this quietly slip away before he makes himself look silly.
johndenton

Now the PFA has come out in support of Rio and the media will spin this story. A complete distraction given our biggest game of the year so far coming up.

Shahram

Rio just tweeted:

Just been to watch Disney On Ice with the family! Kids jigging + eating loads of candy floss! Good end to the day

The guy is so trying to be a gangster I just can't handle this lifestyle of his!

GDS

LOL, good one GDS.

Sydney!

I think this is a sad position we find ourselves in and it could have so easily been avoided if the lines of communication were working properly within Old Trafford.

Sir Alex hasn't covered himself in glory, but then neither has Rio. I fully respect his right to voice his feelings and i'm sure Sir Alex does. But i think Rio should have said to Sir Alex a week ago that he was intending not to wear the shirt, and Sir Alex knowing what had happened with Rio's brother should have spoken to Rio privately about it before speaking to the press.

As it stands i fully understand and appreciate Rio's stance on this subject but i feel the whole boycotting wearing the shirt of a private charity who have no power over the FA's running of the racial equality within football is alittle short sighted.

Personally i feel the best way to resolve this situation is for the club and Rio to make a donation to the charity to show no hard feelings with maybe a joint statement explaining the clubs stance and backing Rio in his.

Shappy

21 Oct 2012 14:36:22
At what point do we give a starting debut to Petrucci or Powell instead of relying on Scholes? A home game against Stoke is not deemed appropriate but it is alright by SAF to keep on with a tired style with players who have declined beyond the point where they should be starting. Why is Wootton sat on the bench when Rio has struggled, you may say he isn't good enough but how will we know? Maybe when he starts playing for a team elsewhere. Why is Giggs hanging round when it was clear he really has gone beyond the level where he can compete?

It must be totally frustrating for our under21 players when it seems like even a home game against Stoke is beyond their capability even to be on the bench. I would rather have seen Powell or Petrucci having a start yesterday than another Scholes performance, one that is so sad after watching him play with distinction in prior years. We bemoan Pogba leaving but can anyone really, hand on heart, say he did the wrong thing because given his own outstanding captain of the under21's Petrucci can't get a game , Pogba would have expected another season in the reserves. We are systematically letting our youth down. I read recently about City's attempts to get a youth from Birmingham , but if we say come to us instead, he then looks at us and does he see where he can get a chance before he is over 21?

SAF ditched the diamond but likely expects to play it next week, that is poor because we need every chance to master it to have any chance this season. To turn up next week against a team that are more astute tactically than us in midfield is poor planning. Surely playing it yesterday should also have given him the chance to play a youngster. He played the experience card and as the season goes on it will be harder to introduce young players as the pressure grows. Maybe when he realises third is our likely finishing spot he will give one or two a chance. When Vidic is fit we could feasibly start with Vidic, Rio, Evra, Carrick, Scholes and Giggs, all over or well over 31 and wonder why there is no energy in the team.

I fear SAF has lost the edge that made him a great. He is picking a fight with Rio over the T shirt at a time when he should be concentrating on our tactics and personnel, Rio and the T shirt is a side issue. Basically as SAF made comments about Jason Roberts he set his position in concrete when he didn't need to, now he sees it as usurping his authority. It is typical intransigent Ferguson but the timing is all wrong. Sort the age and quality of the team out and get the tactics right, the other thing is a distraction that SAF has made and created a totally unnecessary rift. To me it shows his mindset and it is starting to form a worrying picture.

Red Man

The problem I have with SAF's plans are he gives the youth chances in the cups and we are out in a couple of rounds and we never hear about them untill the pre season, and then in the cups. League games we hardly see them. With City/Chelsea buying a lot he wants to play safe and goes for the big names(old names).

DesiRED

Red Man, Pogba would have been a regular in the starting line-up this season had he stayed. The manager always said that this season was Pogba's season. Petrucci needs a loan IMO, he is a good player, but not ready for a game like Stoke. Stoke is not an easy team to beat by any stretch of the imagination. I would also prefer to see Rio line-up against a tough team like Stoke than someone like Wootton who has struggled in Division one teams. I would like to see Powell and Petrucci play more, but unless Petrucci is injured it seems he is being difficult in the contract department and why would the manager play him then? I certainly wouldn't. Powell is only 18 so we have to be careful with him, we do not want to burn him out like Wilshere and Cesc were. Like Sterling will be. With Cleverley and Kagawa unavailable a diamond was not a likely outcome.

Sydney!

There is always an excuse for not playing the young players isn't there, Sydney? It's Stoke it's Wigan it's Fulham
Not ready you say well we will not know until they have had two or three games.
Do you think Pogba believed SAF that he would get regular games or do actions speak louder than words? He was ready last season but SAF went with park and rafael in the middle. In training is SAF lauding everything the old players do and SAF kept saying Giggs and Scholes have years in front of them. Young players want to play not watch and Pogba was not convinced SAF would give him game time. It is a symptom of what we are, an ageing team where the youth either are not good enough or are not seen as good as a 38 year old well past his best.
You criticise Wootton without giving him a chance

You cannot tell me that one young player in the team filled with experience can't cut it.

SAF is preventing the hope of a first team start to our young players to keep the tried and trusted. Like our midfield SAF has lost his verve

Red Man

Desi, to be fair we have had some very unkind cup draws in recent times. Newcastle, City, Liverpool, Chelsea to name a few.

Sydney!

First off I have not criticised Wootton, just said if he couldn't cope with Div One players, then Stoke would murder him. To be fair Stoke murder most experienced EPL defenders. I am amazed that you have so little respect for Stoke who give all of the top teams problems year in year out. I would play Wootton in the League Cup games and I would get him a loan out to a Championship or EPL club after Christmas. Ferdinand is far better than Wootton is right now and if the manager was stupid enough to play Wootton against Stoke and he had a shocker you would be the first on here saying he should have played Rio. In regards to Pogba we know why he left the club and it had jack sh1t to do with playing time. The club would have been well aware of him trying to get a move away from the club 12 months before he left so why would we build up a profile for a player that will end up leaving for free?

Sydney!

I guess given how competitive the league is the young guys will never get a game. I also think the team is so stretched and squeezing out results that SAF will not take the risk of playing these guys.

I for one have not seen many of these guys play and intrigued to see if they are any good.

Only guy I have seen play was Wooton against NC and did not see anything that convinced me he is the future CB of the team and thought the other CB keane was better.

Shahram

Sydney you really have no idea wht you are talking about. When Pogba looked at Petrucci last year: he was the under 21 captain, putting in motm performances every single game and not guetting a single sniff in the first team, what should he expect? last year Petrucci was better than Pogba, he is older and if Pogba was ready for first team why wouldnt Petrucci be? But none got a chance.

Pogba started guetting more games and exposure when the juventus links came up in order to convince him that he will have his share. before that he wasnt guetting a sniff. How is he supposed to know that once he signed a new contract he wont go back and keep playing fr the reserves.

It had nothing to do with money since his salary at juve is not bigger than the one we offered, but he is guetting games which is what he wanted in the first place.

And unless he goes out on loan Petrucci is gonna leave and yet again we will have lost a major talent about to break in the first team ( Pogba, Morrison, Fryers .. ).

Mick

Mick, I do not think you know what you are talking about. Last season was Petrucci's comeback season from a two year injury. He was never going to get first team games and he would have known that. In-fact you would have to be pretty simple minded to think he would be risked in a senior match coming back from a serious almost career ending injury. He missed the League Cup game against Newcastle, but that could have been for a number of reasons. Something you need to remember is he may be 20, but he has had less football than an 18 year old. Age is completely irrelevant due to this very reason.

In regards to Pogba, the editor has already told us the reasons for Pogba's departure and it had nothing to do with playing time or a weekly salary. It was down to bad advice from his agent and a third party. If it was anything to do with playing time then why was his representatives hawking him around to other clubs in the summer of 2011? Did Pogba use his crystal ball to see if he was going to be snubbed for the first team last season? That's right mate Pogba was looking to leave before last season therefore him playing last season is irrelevant. His reps wanted him out of the clutches of Manchester United as they seen a cash cow and the promises of future money in the form of image rights was the main reason Pogba chose to leave. Something he would never have got at this club.

Sydney!

Syd!

The truth is that SAF talk to much about Youth but when come to make the play he really preferes the 30's players.

Pogba is a clear example that if you give them a chance, they can really so something special.

Other players will leave United if Giggs, Scholes make the bench week in and week out!

Scholes and Giggs are legends but right now...!

Nick86

21 Oct 2012 20:44:56
@Red Man

Although i agree with the sentiment of playing youngsters i don't think Stoke was the right game.

1. Stoke are good in the air, that is their main threat. Playing Wooton would have been a disaster.

2. I agree on Scholes. Powell or Petrucci should have started.

3. We didn't have the players available to play a diamond.

4. Mention Pogba all you like, he was always going to leave, regardless of gametime. He would have been a regular this season.

5. The issue with Rio should have been dealt with a lot better.

6. We are hearing strong rumours of Vidic leaving and Hummels being a possible replacement.

7. Giggs and Scholes will be gone in the summer, probably evra too.

REDFAITH

Yeah lasst season was his first full season, i agree. This makes the fact that he was our best player and captain even more impressive.

And this season he is still our best player, and during the tour he was very composed throught. So why did Powell, Lingard and tunicliffe get their chances ahead of him? Why didnt he make the cl squad?

Mick

REDFAITH

I don't think playing Wootton would have been a disaster but my point was not aimed at him. It was aimed at Scholes and the lack of opportunities for any of our youth. The manager goes with the tried and trusted and we are not giving our youth any chance at all.

Red Man

21 Oct 2012 22:37:35
Surely the reason Davide didn't get a spot was because his eye was in a bit of a mess?

Petrucci did have a swollen eye on the day of the League Cup game. The manager definitely wouldn't have wanted the public to see that. Even if he could see out of the eye perfectly I doubt the manager would have played him.

Sydney!

21 Oct 2012 13:29:41
A few days ago I had posted about the likelihood of Ferdinand staying. I did say that I think he would, however I don't see SAF putting up with this at all. Other players, such as Stam, were 'dealt with' - they didn't last long. Given Ferdinand's form and age, his departure wouldn't be a bad thing. My pick to replace him is Benatia who is a very impressive defender. He'd be far cheaper than Hummels and would compliment the defenders that we have now.

Fresh!

I would rather have papadopoulos. He is 4 years younger and already a better player, plus he'd make a great replacement for vidic since evans and smalling seem to be more than capable of succeeding ferdinand.

Mick

Fresh I suggest you look at how much Lazio say they paid for Stam and how much we said we sold him for to know why he was sold. When Fergie was asked by the press where the missing two million had gone he said it was to agents not mentioning that his son was one of the agents involved. I AM KLOOT

Mick do you want red onion and chutney with your papadopolus
johndenton

Fergie admitted he made a big mistake selling stam
johndenton

21 Oct 2012 12:46:30
The front 3 of Welbeck, Rooney and RVP worked a treat yesterday, the movement and rotation is quality and it was a joy to watch at times.

I think Welbeck is really underrated, he gives 110% every game, chases every ball and tracks back when needed. He's a born and bred United fan, isn't that what we wanted? Somebody who plays for the badge and not the pay slip? I'd take Welbeck over players like Torres and Balotelli all day.

What he lacks in technical ability he easily makes up in his work rate.

Hoppy

Just a couple of things Hoppy. One you can not play more than 100% but I accept it is a figure of speech and you are trying to make a point about the effort he puts in. Nobody has ever doubted his effort. What I have a problem with is his quality. If he has no time to think about it he is good but as soon as he has a little time or is in on goal he panics and scuffs the shot. He is certainly nowhere near the quality of the two players you wouldn't have instead of him. And wasn't he refusing to sign a new contract a few months ago. I don't think it had much to do with the badge. I AM KLOOT

Thanks for the clarification on that one Kloot. I said that Welbeck is not the best technically, but he makes very intelligent runs and gives RVP and Rooney space. I heard that too, but you can never be sure with the media.

Hoppy

Kloot I agree with what you have said but just feel that it is his lack of experience that is the problem. Welbeck has all the qualities to become an excellent forward. There are a few forwards that have gone on to be great players(even legends at their respective clubs) that were not as good as Welbeck is at this age. A few people are complaining that the youth are not used enough, but now we are givig a player a chance and bkasting him because he is not setting the world alight. I'm not saying ye will turn into Ronaldo but just give the boy a chance. CDS

Kloot, was a 20/21 year old David Villa, Falcao, Cavani, Llorente or Didier Drogba good enough to play for United? Nuff said.

Sydney!

CDS, it's called hypocrisy. One minute someone is saying the club are not paying the youth enough, next minute he is saying DW is holding out for more cash in a new deal so didn't care about the badge then. Then there are people on here saying we should be playing the younger players and then they are criticising them when they can, DDG, Rafael, Jones, Cleverley & Welbeck spring to mind. Some people need to make their minds up.

Sydney!

Syd
how many times did you watch villa, falcao cavani drogba play when they were 21.
maybe they were good enough

its not about age its about quality, imo players should be picked on there ability.

any player who plays for united is open to getting criticised it goes with the job, everybody wants us to give youth a chance but only if they are good enough.

is it really hypocritical to want to give youth a chance while at the same time giving an opinion on how they play or how good they could be in the future.

im not sure about welbeck to be honest i dont think he will turn out to be a good enough player to be the main man at a club like united.
i think cleverly will be a good player and have a career at united but i dont think he will be good enough to be our main man in the middle.
jones could be very good and I think DDG and RAF will be top top players.
so yes give youth a chance but they need to be good enough, who was the last real top player to come through the academy and break in to the first team
jred

Jred, so how do you suggest DW to become good enough without playing games? Answers on the back of stamp please mate.

And to answer the question Villa, Falcao, Llorente, Drogba & Cavani at 20/21 were NOT good enough to lead the United attack. That of course comes with experience and plenty of game time. A 20/21 year old DW couldn't replace RvP now, but a 24/25 year old DW just might.

Sydney!

21 Oct 2012 11:17:04
Feel really upset with SAF comments regarding Rio yesterday ive lost a lot off respect for him but not surprised really most of his interviews these days r embarrassing
CardiffRED

Support Cardiff the dude

I think we can safely say this will be Rio's final season at the club.

Sydney!

Sydney, I think it should be Fergusons last season at Utd. It's Rios choice not to wear the shirt ! For Saf to declare himself embarrassed at Rios lack of doing what he to told to do shows he is convinced he is bigger than the club itself... Shocking behavior from the manager.... No doubt about it !!


Red Ted

Agreed Syd this was the final nail in the coffin imo

Pardoe

I for one will be glad to see the back of Rio hes a liability

ms85

21 Oct 2012 09:22:21
We won and scored four goals and at times played some good football after half an hour of dour slow play to begin with.

I maintain that playing yesterday's style with a central midfield two of Carrick and Scholes will win us nothing. Yesterday we were incredibly slow and sluggish at the start very like the Spurs game but with the central midfield like that there is no energy or verve. The manager has not learned from previous games and I am concerned with his thought process at the moment.

The first goal for them was caused by an old slow player who has never been able to tackle yet surely Scholes experience should have told him not to dive in and concede such a free kick to a tall powerful team. Scholes went in on his wrong foot as well, he is a sending off waiting to happen and if it is a big game it will cost us. As soon as Scholes did that I felt we had a problem. Stoke played like Wimbledon yet have a little more than them in the middle so can retain possession a little more. Still for some reason they dropped deep after a decent start and we took advantage. RVPs cross was beautiful right in front of where I sit so had the perfect view. I thought both RVP and Rooney had good games and that is our strength at the moment the ability to score.

People blame the defence but it is right in front of the defence where the problem is. Their second goal saw Kightly run straight through our midfield , I sat back and thought there is no way at all that would have happened if Keane or Robson had been playing. Then you look and see Scholes struggling to cover and Carrick not strong enough or quick enough. Anderson gave the midfield legs and covered better than the others yet he is not the answer. We lacked command in the middle of the park. Then I ask why was Powell not given time, why was Giggs on the bench , why do our young players not get a chance? Why has Petrucci not had any time out there? Why are we persisting with so many old players and ones that are not good enough?

It comes back to SAF. He is persisting with the older players and i believe it is almost out of fear of failure. Perhaps the pressure of City and Chelsea has got to him because the old slow style will see us fail when it matters.

I see SAF thinks we will win the Champions league, I wonder if he sees Scholes and Carrick in their prime rather than where they are now. Yes we are second but looking at our team yesterday that central midfield will not beat top teams when it matters. Third is where we are heading and out of Europe against the first top team we face. Old legs with an old slow style will cost us and it has to change.

Red Man

Best post I've seen on here for a long time. I've also been saying that Scholesy and carrick should not okay tigethet .
Our tactics are wrong and Ferguson has not learned and is too old for change. I'm not being disrespectful, as I'm old myself. It is just his attitude.
Why are the youngsters not been given a chance?
Powell buttner did very well when given the chance. Petrucci is our reserve captain and is stand out talent, yet no first team chance. Instead, we have Giggs Scholes Rio evra and the same old tactics.
Play like this on Sunday and wewill be wwiped out.
NoMidfield

Complete BS, we have no chance in CL and if he does not know that, then time for a new manager.

Teams like Barca, Bayern, RM, Porto and few more will eat us for lunch with our midfield. He is just trying to motivate the team for the Braga game.

RVP, Rooney,Welback are not better than Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney and we never got a sniff against Barca because we were rubbish in the middle of the pitch and we are worse today.

Shahram

I have to disagree . Yes scholes legs are probably gone and yes that was a bad tackle but even in his prime his tackles were Probably worse.
We conceded so many because
We are far too concentrated on attack. This was shown when evra gave it away to knightly on halfway line.
I think Anderson could be AN answer to midfield .he can certainly ping a pass and is Quite good at defense.
Maybe this lineup v Chelsea

De gea
Evra rio Evans rafael
anderson
Clevs. Kagawa
Rooney
Van Persie welbeck

Jay-c

Totally agree Red Man. A lot of us on here are singing from the same song sheet, but I'm afraid nothing is going to change SAF's preferences.

J Bones.

With Kagawa returning late and Cleverley playing a full game a day after scheduled, the diamond was out of the question yesterday. I have no doubt in my mind that we will play a diamond against Chelsea next week. Scholes and Carrick wouldn't have been enough in midfield in their hay day as the game has moved on since then, teams pack midfields now and that is what will win you games. It certainly would have prevented Kightly's goal.

Sydney!

I think the Chelsea game bar injury picks itself.

__________DDG
Rafa__Ferdy___Evans__Evra
_________Carrick
__Kagawa_______Clevers
_________Rooney
__Welbeck_______V.Persie

Sydney!

I am certain that either Scholes, Giggs or even both will start against Chelsea. Fergie will play Cleverly and Kagawa on Tuesday and drop at least one of them for the big game.

Danny Pughnited

Danny, you maybe be correct, but is the line-up above the line-up you would choose? Well perhaps swap Evra & Rio for Buttner & Smalling?

Sydney!

21 Oct 2012 08:22:28
We should definitely get Sneijder. Class is permanent. He still has 2-3 years with him and with Nani or Petrucci (SAF just doesnt want to play him )going the opposite way it will suit both parties.

Ddg
rafael smalling evans evra
carrick sneijder
Cleverley rooney kagawa
van persie

With anderson valencia & young can come as substitues if we wanna change tactics etc.

wesley can pick a pass. His workrate is fine.
Remember when RM sold him to Inter he wasnt in the best of form but after signing for them he was brilliant. they won champs league. I feel sneijder needs a change. He could be our own 'Mata' with earlier understanding with Vanpersie.

Sign Sneijder.
Also buttnet can easily fill in at LW.

That ship has sailed, SAF won't go back there now... and I'm happy with that. Would rather have Cabaye and a whole lot of saved money.

DodgyBanter

21 Oct 2012 06:44:52
Man united has not lost any game when rvp scores

Not lost one when I've scored either mate!

GDS