Manchester United Banter Archive August 22 2014

22 Aug 2014 19:59:09
With Herrera, Carrick, Fellaini all out injured I believe we will see Cleverley and Fletcher starting. Or wil Kagawa play deep and partner Fletcher?

:(

If he starts with those two whilst still playing three at the back and young and james as wing back we are in big trouble

22 Aug 2014 22:49:26
I think kagawa needs to try and adapt to a 6 or 8 role as he won't get many games as a number 10 so hopefully he will get a chance on Sunday, we all know how talented he is, fingers crossed for 3 points though!

Or perhaps Powell would play there.

Prefer Powell but we will be lucky for a point

Sheesh listen to you people. Lucky to get a point? In big trouble? 1 bad game and we're all doomed eh?

Could Rooney drop back into midfield? With RVP fit it could happen.

23 Aug 2014 09:37:26
AJH,

The overreaction is absolutely hilarious isn't it? This time last week everybody thought we were going to have a good season. One bad result with loads of injuries and now we are going for points at Sunderland lol.

It's going to be a rocky ride but LVG's interview this morning was fascinating. It may take time but I am convinced we will see a great team evolve under him. I really hope he gets the best out of the youngsters and throws them in. No idea why SAF bought Powell only to loan him out. Pogba wasn't played, others not trusted. DM did well to promote Januzaj, it would be great to get a few more into the 1st team.

Ajh
Will he be given time?
If we don't make top 4 will he be out the door?

We will make the top 4, I really don't see that as a problem

When I see some tangible proof we are heading in the right direction I will believe in this (project) but until then I reserve the right to my opinion and not just blindly follow because people say we are not a true fan because my opinion differs from yours

22 Aug 2014 20:50:27
Di Maria not in the Madrid squad at all for today's game. Pretty much sums up the fact that Madrid could be preparing for life without him. Potential sign for things to come?
Fingers Crossed

22 Aug 2014 21:03:49
Neither Di Maria or Khedira are in the Real squad tonight. We must be signing both of them. Ronaldo on the bench too, he could be signing in January.

Danny, Obviously you are not clued up on our transfers at all. Emile Heskey has left Newcastle Jets, is in a helicopter with Woody to sign on the dotted line.

Deeps.

Yay! Ronaldo is coming back. Praise The Lord!

22 Aug 2014 17:52:59
Chiriches to Roma being reported by SS. could he be Benatia replacement?

As much as we need defensive reinforcements, personally i'm not sure this is quite the move we should be making (if we are actually in talks for him) - especially given how much he is being shopped around for by the papers. £30mil for a player with no real international experience, very limited european competition experience, and all this hype after one good season in the italian league.

Great site btw Eds!

Do Udinese not play their football in Italy anymore?; because as I recall he had three good seasons there before moving to Roma. Just because you haven't heard of a player before we're linked with them doesn't mean they aren't a good player!

22 Aug 2014 19:19:19
He will go to Bayern

Its confirmation that Benatia is leaving, 99.9% certain that its to Bayern unfortunately.

R7, agreed, also with CB's the penny usually drops for them around 27-30 years old. CBs and keepers seem to peak later than other positions, so that's why many go unnoticed until they reach an older age.

22 Aug 2014 17:27:26
So what do people make of the fact that welbeck could be moving?

I posted the other day I would have wilson as back up before welbeck but I think we would still need another striker especially if hernandez goes
Could it be di maria or are we looking at another striker.
Or are we going play with 1 striker.

Some will be disappointed if welbeck goes but he has had a chance and for me doesn't look good enough to be a first choice striker for a team like united .
So might as well get a player who is or has the potential to be

It sounds like Welbeck spat the dummy because van Gaal doesn't see him as first choice. The simple truth is that the lad will never score enough to lead the line, and isn't a good enough football player to play on the wing. He has pace and is a hard worker, but if we can get anything close to £20m for him, we should jump at it.

We already have two first choice strikers, and two young lads (Wilson and Januzaj) who can also play up front in van Gaal's system. If the ultimate plan is to play 4-3-3, then splashing the cash for a player like Di Maria who can play as a wing forward or in Robben's dutch role, makes far more sense than fighting to keep a limited player like Welbeck happy.

If we play with 2 upfront like we have so far we need 4 strikers myself I would be surprised if welbeck leaves as I can't see both him and Hernandez leaving

I agree with Danny and Jred, I think DW kicked off threatening to leave and LvG has said "see you later then". We should be buying more top quality with youth as back-up. Not have a squad of similar level players on biggish wages. Wilson needs to be playing more. He needs to be back-up to Van Persie and will learn a lot from him.

Danny
I would agree with all that and also think di Maria makes sense for a number of reasons.
This won't go down well but I also think that if lvg can get the players in he wants rvp and Mata could be surplus next summer

I can only imagine that LVG has told him we're bringing in a winger/forward meaning as 3rd choice behind RVP/Rooney, he won't get many opportunities.

At least I hope so because selling Welbeck and Chicha with nobody coming in would be absolute lunacy.

We need strikers who regulary score, as much as I would like a local lad and utd fan to succeed i'm afraid he isn't good enough in front of goal

Michael, I think Van Persie, Rooney, Wilson, Adnan & Di Maria (if signed) would be plenty for the forward line.

I for one would be very disappointed if Welbeck were sold. Sure, his composure and finishing is definitely lacking, but he's not required to be the main man scoring at United. His link up play, pace, and work rate makes him pretty unique amongst the players at United. Added to him being homegrown it would be a real shame to lose him. Can't understand people's criticism of Welbeck.

Don't forget zaha

Reading some of the posts on Wellback, have I been watching another player?Yes he does a lot of running about, but anyone can run around in circles and get nowhere, its about running and doing something with the ball at the end.He doesn't.I don't doubt his passion, but what is the point if he shoots it goes over the bar, he tries to dribble and his feet get tangled up, passes go amiss or he ends up falling over.Sorry if it upsets some but in your heart of hearts can you really say he is class.I can't see what he has done in a Man Utd shirt apart from a couple of decent performances the rest have been rubbish.

Jred, it's not that it doesn't go down well, it's just your opinion and everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's just that it's highly unlikely. Van Persie is by FAR our best striker and first choice on the teamsheet if fit. If he has an injury-free season like his first season he will get 30 plus goals. Rooney was given the captaincy, English, ten years of MU service etc etc and the right choice IMO. But Van Persie is still LvG's pet and if he stays fit, he is our first choice striker. I still think that if we signed someone like Cavani, Cavani and Van Persie upfront with Rooney behind them would be a great forward line. Mata is not on a monster salary and we would never recoup £40m for him, so he will spend a while at MU. Van Persie depends on his fitness. He doesn't rely on pace so can play on for several seasons, but only if he is fit to play. It seems LvG is doing what we have wanted for a while, he is keeping the top notch players and adding top notch to them whilst letting go of the mediocrity that SAF has built up. I think players like Mata will end up squad players in the long run, not sold.

Jred, I think Mata will have this season to prove that he's worth sacrificing a cm for. If he can become our creative hub over the next few months, LVG will adapt to a three with Mata bridging the gap between midfield and attack. If he doesn't convince, I can't see him being kept.

As for RVP, he's entering the latter stages of his career and isn't able to play every week anyway. I would say that LVG wants to keep him, but I think that RVP may decide to finish his career in a less physically demanding league.

Jred, Zaha will be loaned out.

Manu123
Yer that's the right player

Danny
I agree I think Mata needs to prove himself .
He is a good footballer but lacks pace and this limits the positions he can play and what he offers off the ball.
Good player but I can understand why Jose sold him.
Syd
Next summer rvp will be 32 and have 1 year on his contract, will united offer him 1, 2 or 3 year contract or put faith in the likes of Wilson and adan or invest in the NEXT top world-class talent?
Should united continue with a 32 year old striker or build for the future.

Next summer rvp will be 32 he will have a choice to make .
One last pay day
One last chance at Cl football
Accept he may be challenged for his spot.

He may stop at united but he may also leave.
With your track record can you be sure in your opinion

I imagine that there will be an option for a further year on his contract. It seems the MU way these days. Maybe he will go, maybe he won't, but I think if he has a great season, then IMO it's unlikely.

23 Aug 2014 05:38:08
Jred, exactly what I have posted a few rows down. His touch, passing ad finishing is not good enough for him to either displace the likes of Persie/Rooney or play on the wings. With Ed002 saying that his agent has been hawking him around EPL clubs, it's better to part ways.

Deeps.

Deeps
I would agree plus danny isn't a kid anymore it prob time he moved to a club that gave him first team football

22 Aug 2014 16:40:50
Ed, why had post about Di maria being left out of squad for supercopa match been removed? Have I done something wrong?

{Ed002's Note - No idea.}

22 Aug 2014 16:26:39
Remember how last year we would feel so bad after a home loss then slowly get back in it and have a little optimism before the next game? Well this weekend against Sunderland there's not even the least of hoped. This summer we've signed 3 players and none will play, we've already lost about 5 players to transfers and are many times weaker than last season. Old Trafford is fast becoming an epic show of comedy. I wonder if van Gaal will have any reputation left by the time he gets the sack

22 Aug 2014 16:52:02
You have no hope in this weekend? Grow up and support the team.

I support the team alright, always have and will probably will for the rest of my life. But this seems the most appropriate place to say what fans feel. The only fit CMs are Fletcher, who looked really thin a few months ago, Anderson and Cleverly who we all agree wouldn't probably make any EPL team. I don't get where optimism comes from

22 Aug 2014 18:27:09
From rvp, Rooney, mata, Valencia back, Evans back. Lots of things to be optimistic about, hilarious the reaction to one defeat last week.

Probably Loko? Good times and bad pal. It all comes in cycles. As for all the gloom and talk of van Gaal getting the sack! I'm actually more optimistic than last year. Van Gaal has a plan and has identified the players he believes are not up to the task. He is trying to get the players in who he believes can play in his system but is hard due to no Champions League. There are ten players injured. He's got his hands full but come on, let's give the bloke a chance and get behind the team.
Last season was horrible, Moyes was never the right man for the job but I feel van Gaal is. He has pedigree. He will instill his philosophy throughout the club. I'm sure he will give a lot of our young players a good crack in the squad. He needs time and our support.
As for Welbeck, I do feel he needs to move on, whether On loan or permanently. A 1 in 4 goal to game ratio for a forward isn't really good enough. He might come good and I hope he does as he is an honest player, a good grafter and is United through to the bonemarrow but sometimes it doesn't quite work out and he lacks a bit of consistency and composure for me.

Hope Welbeck leaves but on loan. I think he'll come good later at 27/28

Gds2 are you sure your not cutting and pasting your replies from the start of last seasons debates :)

23 Aug 2014 09:05:20
Haha john, not quite as we didn't have mata then ;)

Surely things are better than last season though, lvg is telling us to be patient and he will sort it and I trust him 100%.

Im not panicking yet but will be very pissed off with utd/woodward if we don't add a bit of quality before the window shuts.i think van gaal is the right man but without the right mix off players any manager would struggle

22 Aug 2014 15:27:24
Are we looking at Zaha, Welbeck and Cleverley out with Di Maria and Vidal or Guarin in? Wouldn't lose sleep if Cleverley went, but I'd be disappointing if Welbeck goes. However, LVG may see Di Maria as a forward and Januzaj which would make Welbeck 5th choice so could potentially see his logic there. A lot hinges on the Di Maria deal I would imagine and.

22 Aug 2014 12:36:43
Rumour that Welbeck has been told he can leave, wonder if he has asked to leave as I think he is the only one with any pace atm

I had a feeling about this couple of weeks back and would be a good move for Welbecks career and would be good for us if we get some quality players in. I am still holding hope over Vidal but chances are pretty slim.

Di Maria with Guarin might be the one.

22 Aug 2014 13:36:05
I think that's a massive mistake. he's the only player we have with pace and offers more than Hernandez who just drifts out of games. Wilson should be fourth choice.

22 Aug 2014 11:36:47
Hummels - King Arthur - Di Maria

Which two would people take now if offered? I would be surprised if we even signed two of these, but for a bit of fun, which two?

22 Aug 2014 11:43:29
vidal & di maria
Not withstanding our need for a defensive linchpin those 2 would revolutionise the way we play di maria brings lots of options.

I still believe we need a CB and RWB alongside those 2 but we can't expect 4 superstars to fill those 4 positions in this window
I think we will get 2 from a list and 2 from b

I would go for "Arthur" and Di Maria. I would give one last season to the Likes of Smalling and Evans to see if they can step up with regular football. If we sign Di Maria it will give penetration from wider positions (which I think is a bad as our midfiled).

I would go with Di Maria and Vidal. Di Maria for his pace, energy, versatility and excitement, and Vidal to be a dominant force in midfield, and to give us a harder edge overall.

I think our backs at the moment can at least compete, though they may be mistake prone and lack experience and leadership. But the midfield needs help no matter how you look at it.

King Arthur and Di Maria. Adds steel, energy and pace to the midfield. That equates to keeping better possession, breaking down more opposition attacks, better counter attacks, strikers like Rooney and Van Persie will be licking their lips at the sight of that.

The defense sure will be a bit on the weaker side, but having such a strong midfield and attack should offset that. let's go back to the days of the swashbuckling style of football which we loved at old trafford. End to end stuff. Win games 5-2, 4-3 etc.

Oh and with Barcelona out of the picture, let's get Hummels next summer then? ;)

22 Aug 2014 11:46:58
are you offering an opinion Syd or just asking?

22 Aug 2014 11:47:09
syd

i would go for

vidal

hummels

but to be honest at this stage I would be happy with 1 of them

In order of need 1. Vidal 2. Hummels.
IMO no need for ADM.

For me it would be Vidal and Di Maria, I think with Rojo, Smalling, Jones, Evans, and the youngsters we are ok at CB.
CMF we are painfully short, and I believe we need a fast direct player to stretch other teams, because at the moment we are very predictable.

Hummels and Vidal as they're currently more of what the team is in need of.

Hummels and vidal all day I have said it before we have players who can fill in up front and out wide we have NOBODY who can boss the midfield

22 Aug 2014 11:56:44
Di Maria and Hummels as King Arthur wasn't even a footballer.

22 Aug 2014 11:58:40
Vidal for the obvious reason that he is one of the 2 best box to box midfielders in the world along with Yaya Toure and Di Maria because we don't play the exciting football of old as we don't have the pace to do it. Di Maria would bring that and plenty of assists as well. Him and Januzaj on either side gives us that pace and dribbling ability.

Vidal and Di Maria.

Vidal > Hummels > Di Maria

Vidal and Di Maria.

Don't need Di Maria. Definitely need a Midfielder and a centre back. Vidal and Hummels for me.

King Arthur? We got more chance of signing Guinevere.

Vidal and di maria, a good midfield and good attack will cover over the cracks at the back if were banging goals in for fun

22 Aug 2014 10:54:29
Well with all plan A targets out the window, speculation on who is Plan B.
Even some plan B players seem to be avoiding us.
names everyday of talks, but no firm bids.It makes me wonder where Ed woodward gets all this time to talk and end up with nothing at the end.Maybe someone should let him know placing a bid might just help and that can be worked on in talks.
times ticking, last day should be good let's hope its not like last years panic buying.

22 Aug 2014 12:41:29
Why are all the Plan A targets out of the window?

22 Aug 2014 10:43:09
Hi Eds/anyone who follows German football,

Looking at some more rumours today, Johannes Geis from Mainz, is there any chance he will move this summer? I see that Dortmund are interested, but perhaps he is someone we should be looking at if we fail with our other targets.

On a side note, Tuchel, where's he going now? I rated what he did at Mainz and looked pretty tactically aware. I'd like to see him in the Prem.

{Ed002's Note - You need the European pages for this. It is nothing to do with MU.}

22 Aug 2014 10:24:23
Edd002 How high would you rate our chances of bidding for di maria before the end of the transfer window 0 - 10? also do you think we will bring in another couple of players weather it be di maria or not

{Ed002's Note - I am not going to get in to doing this. The club are looking to bring players in and I expect they will.}

22 Aug 2014 13:21:51
This is like you have thought of all the things Ed002 hates answering and then asked him. Ed002 deals with facts, not 0-10 chances.

22 Aug 2014 10:12:48
Any news where Nick Powell will end up this season? Was purchased as a prospect player but seems to gone off radar recently

{Ed002's Note - Loan to Championship club - there are several interested.}

22 Aug 2014 13:19:41
Are no BPL teams interested?

{Ed002's Note - He would struggle with the language in Bulgaria.}

22 Aug 2014 09:48:16
A last minute deal for di maria and khedria would finish our transfer business off nicely

Couldn't agree more Jred. The just hope we get UCL football and go all out for Hummels next summer (if Barca don't sign him next week).

22 Aug 2014 09:21:54
In an effort to create some optimism -
Aug 1995 we lose to Villa 1-3 - 3.5 years later we win the treble.

Of course losing the first game was disappointing but in all fairness on another day we could of won 3-1 (penalty shouts, Rooney hitting the angle) we also had 12 injuries, new signings, new manager and a new system.

We have been through change, evolution, transition (whatever label you give it) before and go on to be successful.

And as much as the Glazers are seen as leeches they need success to make money so investment will happen.

There is too much negativity and not enough optimism on here and in the press. This club of ours has been through worse and come out fine.

Let's get some perspective and see where we are Sept 3rd and May.

Friday thought of the day :)

The reason the fans are unhappy with the transfers again is because woodwoody shot his mouth off again so unless we do sign a superstar for mega money everything else just seems underwhelming if the person kept his mouth shut and stopped bragging things would be easier to take

Nice perspective Utd Road.

A bit flawed as we need to see things in terms of the competition around now and the way the game has globalised. We had a group of top class youngsters coming through in the 90's and the game was very UK focussed which suited us.

We now have a group of mediocre players and our competitors are attracting players we would have signed in the mid-90's. We wouldn't be able to sign Cantona, Keane or even the likes of Schmeichel/Kanchelskis today as clubs are just as sophisticated scouting wise and offer a better package for some reason.

The likes of Cole & Yorke would cost £40mil+ today and we wouldn't be able to fend off the Spanish, PSG, Bayern and our domestic rivals to their signature now. We are unfortunately no longer seen as the dream team for many players due to globalisation and our dramatic failings of late, the world is a lot more fickle now. A generation to build up the respect and admiration of the masses, a season to eradicate it.

So whilst I agree it's not all over and we should keep the faith. If we look at the evidence in the mid 90-s we had to climb Ben Nevis, now we have to climb Everest to get the same rewards - most of our players have vertigo.

Aug 1995 we lose to Villa 1-3 - that year we won the double

Maybe we should stop obsessing over a mega bucks superstar. The price , in my opinion at least, does not matter. All I want is for us to sign the right players that will significantly improve our team. If he costs £100m fine, if he costs £10m and he has the same impact, would it make him less of a player?We need the right players in certain positions. Price doesn't guarantee anything.
Remember Veron?

Beast, nothing you said makes any sense. Its pure conjecture on your part

True Betty - but the reason prices are higher is because the player typically carries less risk of being a flop. We have a habit of buying big and selling awful. Our competitors have a habit of buying MASSIVE and selling Big. Hence they have better squads and we are full of players losing value and not reaching their potential.

We need proven quality and unfortunately that costs, although DD still needs to be carried out because we have had our pants pulled down far too often recently and £50mil+ for Di Maria is another one of those.

We simply can't be seen to be paying too much over the odds otherwise every deal we make we have to pay 20-30% more than our competitors would for the same player and our money won't last forever.

Melbourne.

Are you saying its as easy to dominate the domestic game now as it was in the 90's?

Is the game not more globalised now?

Did we not sign most players we wanted in the 90's, now we struggle to sign similar level players?

Would players worth £10mil in the 90's that improved with us not be worth 4X that nowadays?

Are we not losing interest in our club from lads growing up or overseas players because we are not in the CL and there are more clubs to choose from that can offer glory and money?

Is the world and football in general caring more about short term success rather than long term stability, relying on luck rather than hard work, X-Factor style?

If that doesn't make sense to you then you are in serious denial about the world we live in today and the position Man Utd has in it currently. To say nothing makes sense about the above is ludicrous and those bullet points summarise m original post.

Utd Road

Yes, you have a point but back then we had 5-6 ridiculously talented youngsters and a one-off situation where all of them were ready for first-team football at the same time. Now, we have 1 ridiculously talented youngster, a few promising youngsters and a lot of ordinary players.

If we had 5-6 Januzaj's chomping at the bit I'd agree with you. But we have Januzaj, Blackett who looks good, and the rest are far from ready for first team football.

22 Aug 2014 11:53:01
Fair points guys and I would offer this bac:

I'm not happy about how things have gone and Ed Woodward has done himself no favours with his interview (how can you tell people you have bottomless out of cash then quibble when the put the price up?) but let's hang him after the transfer deadline has passed not before. And he has done a good job in the commercial sector so he can't be a stupid as he acts? (Surely - hopefully)

With the youngster I disagree looking at Januzaj, Wilson, Pearson, Lawrence, Powell maybe Zaha we have some brilliant kids add to that Jones, Smalling and Rafa who I believe haven't been "Coached" we could have great team of United Lads and that's what makes us special - home grown class players with top level bought players. Since Carlos Quireoz and Rene left the lads haven't had a top coach. Look down the M62 see what good coaches can do to perceived mediocre players.

22 Aug 2014 13:25:03
Beast your arguing that we don't have pulling power but considering everyone expected luke Shaw to go to Chelsea contradicts that. I agree it has got harder but your over egging the omelette.

Chelsea pulled out because of the inflated fee.

22 Aug 2014 00:10:46
Hi eds do man united still have interest in schweinstiger and are they interested in Walcott, cheers

{Ed002's Note - No.}