Manchester United Banter Archive December 22 2013

 

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22 Dec 2013 21:22:59
I wondered how long it would take one of you to get on the buy Barkley band wagon!

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People have suggested we buy Barkley since he was 16 years old, so your 4 years too late with this comment.

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22 Dec 2013 20:47:38
How catchy is that chant for Adnan Januzaj! I wonder how folk come up with these sometimes lol. United fans have always been brilliant for it though. What's everyone's favourite player chants, past or present?

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Park Park wherever you may be.

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Toss up between keano is magic and anderson son son;genius.

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Viva Ronaldo

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Andre, Andre Kanchelskis, Andre Kanchelskis.

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Loads of good ones but apart from those already mentioned I like "a drink a drink. " for King Eric, "when Johnny does marching down the wing" for O'Shea and "yip yap Jaap Stam".

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Park park is great, but viva ronaldo is also brilliant.

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22 Dec 2013 20:42:55
We have got to test Everton with
a bid for Barkley maybe we could
offer players plus cash deal-Anderson
Young and cash

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Not a chance & not a chance you could afford him

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Man United? The most profitable club in football can't afford him?, that's not the case it that's the glazers won't fork out for him

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Sorry Baz no matter how much you are in denial like most clubs yours is a selling club

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I say you can't afford him as you have a ceiling of £30m, Barkley has two years left on his contract and a new contract is in negotiations, seriously do you think Everton would sell him for less than £40m? Not only that, why would he go from a top 4 team to a Europa league side at best? Selling club you say? Yes £27.5m for Fellaini, when you put it like that I suppose we are lol.

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What most Manchester United fans are completely forgetting is that Moyes very rarely played Barkley while he was at Everton and that was only last year! He certainly never gave him a run of games like Martinez has. What makes you all believe that Moyes would play him now? He was this good when Moyes had him and that made no difference to him.

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Glad you made that clear for us, keep him. I would rather go after Gundogan and Matic guys we can afford :)

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You probably said the same things with Rooney baz, Everton fans seem to thing a good first half of the season and they are one of the biggest teams in the league. When the reality is players like Barkley and Baines would love to come to us.

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Leicester Toffee - Moyes didn't play him because he wasn't ready for regular PL football. To say he was this good then is silly when he spent last season on loan in the championship and hardly pulled up trees. That loan period was what he needed to help him physically become ready for the PL and considering how he looks now, I'd say Moyes made the right choices with him.

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22 Dec 2013 16:06:33
Just finished watching the southampton/spurs game and something stuck me. I remember when I so many people were going gaga for guys like ramires and lamella( I had my doubts) but to be honest they look so average and clearly struggle with the pace and physicality of the pl.

It got me thinking maybe that is why saf traditionally bought top players from within the pl rather than going after foreign players. Only in recent years have we a started to go after foreign layers and have had more disappointments than successes especially when buying hyped up players for higher fees.

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Shahram

Mate, it goes both ways I guess. For every foreign player who isen't quite able to make it here, we have the Mata's and the Aguero's of the world. If you pay the right money for the right players, and those players are world class ones, they will succeed no matter where they player. With Lamela, I think he has got time on his side and a lot of talent to still make it here.

Fergie not opting for world class talents from across the shore is only down to Glazernomics and/or Fergie's adamant arrogance. let's not even talk about the Bebe or Obertan deals.

On another note, I can never fathom the concept behind calling players like Lamela a failure within 3-4 months, yet talking Kagawa up as the next big thing. I think both of them struggle massively with the physical aspect of the PL.

Deeps.

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It's a good point but I think you always need to give them a season to adjust to the EPL, so will some won't .

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Deeps

It was just an observation. I never was sure about Lamela and was not in the bandwagon off "we should sign him". The system in Italy suited him and the Pl does not as there is very little room and it's so fast and physical and I believe Kagawa suffers from the same.

Look at how Veron, Nani, Anderson have turned out. My point was it is okay to venture smaller fees on potential.

Our issue is we tend to buy at that middle tier and pay in the 20's for guys who have potential. Aguero was always top of the food chain and you know what you were getting and paid for it.

Is soldado really worth 26 million or Lamela 30 million. Our best signings from outside the pl have been guys who we have spent reasonable money on i.e. Evra(not now but for about a 4 year period he was tone of the best LB around), Vidic, Hernandez, rafael with Ronaldo being the exception.

I am hoping if we are going to buy in Jan, either buy at the top internationally or buy domestically because you know what you are getting.

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He still have time to develop into a great player for Spurs.

We also have Fallaini who's not proving any dime invested in him. We also had a lot of cheap players who came as poor piece of business from SAF the same way as the expensive ones.

How long took Mata, Silva even Suarez to perform the way they do?

Every player you buy has risks. He can either adapt easily or not.

I rather see us spending on Reus, Gundogan or Di Maria than just a cheap and unknown player, just because is the way we do(did).

But the main point is that you pay what is worth in order to have the player u want, he can be a successful one or not.

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GCU, I think you make a fair and good point. That is why I don't agree with the idea that we should buy certain players just because they are deemed as top class. A good example, in my opinion would be DiMaria.Many on here think he would be the answer to our problem on the wing, but I just don't think he would hack it in the EPL. Our league is very different to most other leagues, and just because a player maybe technically good doesn't mean he would be a success here.

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Betty
I was watching the Madrid match last night after reading GCU post and thought the same thing. Top player but he will cost a lot and imo would be a gamble in the EPL

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22 Dec 2013 13:24:09
I have been keeping a close eye on Powell and although he is playing at Championship level, I do think he looks a decent forward. I think he will play in the hole in the end, but if I was Moyes I would seriously look at him again this January as his all round game is better than Hernandez. If Moyes feels he doesn't need him then he should be playing for an EPL side for the rest of the season.

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It's a shame because SAF said Powell has similar abilities to Scholes at that age, ideally we'd want him to play as a central midfielder but his defensive work rate isn't good enough.

We can't have Powell playing in the hole all the while Januzaj is destined to play there. We should loan him out to a PL side asap, he needs to be playing in a tougher environment. Personally I don't think Powell is far behind Januzaj in terms of talent and if Adnan can handle it in the PL then so can Powell.

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I completely agree Oz.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but did Scholes not start as a second striker but then dropped back to lie deeper in midfield. This is how I see Powell going in the future - for me he is destined to end up being a Gerrard type player that bursts forward from midfield. If he has a defensive minded midfielder alongside him (like Fellaini) then he could perform that role. I really hope we bring him back in January - Anderson out and Powell back in. This needs to happen if we fail to sign another CM which to be honest, I don't think we will.

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I heard whispers that we are getting rid of Anderson and signing Cabaye for 24m so if this was to happen I would think Powell would stay out on loan, only three days to Christmas but more importantly ten days till the new year and the transfer window opens fingers crossed we don't have another window like the summer. Baines and Cabaye in would be good both can play champions league both would be realistic signings and I hope we don't dither just straight in and sign them up first day of the window

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Scholes started in the hole but never had the size or speed, he looked a talented player but never looked quite good enough to play there at the top level
Once moved to cm he fit like a glove.
I think Powell is the opposite he could be a good cm but he will be a great second striker

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A young Paul Scholes was very clinical and instinctive I seem to remember him filling in very well for Cantona when he had his long suspension. Have to agree on Powell though I think he's better further forward! It didn't always work when tryin to revert a striker or second striker into a CM as fergie tried it with Alan Smith and it didn't work out exactly same goes for Anderson aswell he was once a beast as an attacking midfielder

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I see Powell as closer to Rooney than to Scholes. He is too good to only play as a striker, but to move him too deep takes away his goal threat.

He needs to play somewhere between the midfield and the forward line, if you give him a free role there he could be deadly.

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The only difference is power does not have rooney's work rate or engine. He is for me more of attacking mid than a number 10.

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22 Dec 2013 13:00:02
hi guys have not posted in ages but have been following everyones posts and thoughts(and there have been some cracking debates) but I would just like to say i'm reasonably pleased with how things seem to be straightening out I know its been a shaky few weeks but I think we are now seeing what moyes is all about he takes average footballers and gets them performing(young, cleverley, valencia)
it seems a bit of trust is developing between manager and squad and I for one am delighted I really want the guy to succeed and believe he is the right bloke for our club I am probably going to get slammed for my blind optimism and hope but hey its christmas :)

merry christmas to all posters and readers(even lfc and marcellus;) and the eds cheers guys:)

ps how good is adnan!!

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Merry Christmas mate.

Glad to hear you're a member of the optimistic club ;)

Adnan is incredible, just needs to keep his head out of the clouds, needs to learn not to dive - even if he is getting kicked all over the park, and generally just keep improving. Everyone can become better tomorrow than they are today, if they don't think they can they should retire.

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22 Dec 2013 09:51:50
Mick you have a good eye for a player, there's a young lad who has been impressing me everytime I see him in the last 18 months. He is now starting to look like he needs to step up to a bigger team.

So what is your opinion of Kevin Volland?

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I'm not sure he's quite ready for a step up just yet, but here we go.

He's a good goalscorer, and hits the target quite often. He can shoot from distance and has a good nose for goal.

He's also reasonably fast, has a good dribble on him and can spot a through ball.

Now for his shortcomings. He's not big, really struggles with the defensive side of the game and loses possession like no one's business. Atm he performs better on the wing than the number 10 spot, liking to cut inside and create play.

But his vision is quite limited and so is his passing. He has abysmal passing stats and doesn't create as much as it is expected as an inverted winger.

All in all, I'd have him but not as first choice. Though I said on several occasion that the best way forward is to play with inverted wingers who can move inside and create from the middle and allow the full backs to push on and not lose any of the width we possess now, we need better than him.

The Hoffenheim player I'd look at is Roberto Firmino. The lad is unbelievable. he's a better dribbler, better goalscorer, better defender, more creative and has just as bad passing stats as Volland. But he plays on the left, where Draxler and Reus should be our first targets ( please not Konoplyanka, we need someone much more proven ).

On the right januzaj can take up the spot for now, where he would cut inside to good effect with Kagawa and Rooney completing the attacking trio. januzaj and Kagawa would be tucked inside, interchanging with Rooney and Van persie, dominating possession and most importantly attack through the middle. Against West Ham, 22 % of our chances came through the middle, and a team with good fullbacks will completely nullify our wide threat.

If Januzaj doesn't work out on the right, who would you want? And would you rather have an left footed or right footed player?

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Iturbe anyone? :)

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22 Dec 2013 14:21:33
Cheers mick, he looks like he needs to be playing a higher level of football, but I was unsure of whether he is ready to be playing for a very top team. Maybe a move to a team that will be playing ucl but not a very top team just yet.

Dortmund apparently are very kean on him, and they are a pretty good judge of talent looking at their recent transfer. I also think they are an ideal team to iron out his kinks.

Personally I think we need to be looking at this type of player, someone with huge potential but just needs a bit of fine tuning. They tend to be priced in the low to mid price range which seems to be where we shop these days, so i'd rather invest in a young talent in that price range rather than a player like Sneijder who has been a great player but is on his way down.

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Iturbe anyone? :)

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Haha GCU, Iturbe was the talk of the town about two years ago ;) 'the next messi' they said. Couldn't get into the Porto team, was loaned out to River Plate and didn't really impress that's the last I heard of him.

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Playing in Italy and playing well and did not know he went out to Argentina. Are you sure as Chelsea or pool were after him last summer?

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22 Dec 2013 04:37:03
I only just managed to catch the game highlights and I was furious to see the cole goal, buttner plays him onside although it was still a poor line and then to my utter disbelief buttner strolls back whilst Evans etc are busting a gut to get back. Very poor piece of play from buttner

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Luke mate we cannot blame Evans and Smalling here, the line they held was correct. It was entirely Buttners fault.

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22 Dec 2013 09:29:18
Luke mate, having watched the entire match I can tell you that was about West Hams only chance all game.

Evans and Smalling were totally dominant and worked well with our midfield to snuff out any chances before them became a chance.

Buttner had only just come on about a minute or two before the goal and was settling into the game and got caught on his heels. Its one of those things. The important this is we restricted them to one chance in 90 minutes while creating 9/10 chances for ourselves.

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Yeah Buttner gave West Ham a gift there. He may as well have scored an own goal ;)

We should have had four cleansheets in a row.

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22 Dec 2013 03:59:20
Our next set of league games are :

Hull away
Norwich away
Spurs home
Swansea home

I believe we should target 10 points from these 4 games, possibly 12 as well.

Spurs aren't in any sort of form and still don't have any managerial stability so we should target 3 points at OT against them.
Swansea are unpredictable so even at OT it could be a difficult game.

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I think we should get 12 points from those games. We must get all of them.

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22 Dec 2013 09:34:11
I would expect Spurs to have a new manager by the time we play them, and I've always said its hard to play a team who have just had a new manager installed as everyone in the team are working extra hard to impress the new manager.

So if they get someone who is tactically astute and he sets his team up in the right way against us then with the extra work rate of the team then it will become a very hard match.

Hopefully know one is willing to take the job just yet due to the timing and they won't want to mess their families around over christmas. But we can't rely on that.

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12 points from those games will put us in a very good position. I am not yet convinced we are out of our rut, but winning the next four games will certainly give us back our stability and confidence that we have been missing all season.

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Winning the next 4 takes us to the Chelsea game away, which I have tickets and planning on attending. I am pretty sure if we were to win the next 4, the chelsea game would provide us with an opportunity go past them or at worst be about level on points.

It is no easy feat and no one has won 6 in a row beside Arsenal, I think. Given the cup games in between we are talking about some run. I think 10 out of 12 would be a great outcome and we will pick up points on everyone if that were to happens.

Let's just make sure we win the next one and go from there.

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Trouble is we must get all 12 points just to remain in the hunt. Think league is long gone. We need 12 points though to keep pressure on Top 4.

We seem to be picking up though and definitely played v well yesterday albeit against relegation fodder.

Personally I'm pleased Wellbeck been given a chance upfront. Has his critics but think of those may be silenced if he has an extended run in favoured role as a striker.

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22 Dec 2013 01:33:17
The last couple of games has shown there is a glimmer of hope for Cleverley, more forward passes today 98% pass completion, only pass that was lostv was a long diagonal.

I have been his worst critic maybe, just maybe I may have misjudged him it remains to be seen

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Pardoe, he looks a different player when he injects some energy. People have said he is being played in the wrong position and needs to be given freedom to attack. Remember the Charity Shield against City when the team was vibrant and we all looked forward to an exciting style? Not sure why the same layers then became so 1 paced.

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22 Dec 2013 09:40:25
It may be that he is finally getting over the mental scars of his injury in the same way that Ramsey has this year.

Or and more likely imo the higher defensive line has pushed Cleverley further forward and into the area of the pitch he is most comfortable. He thrives when he has lots of players around him so he can play pass and move football. With the higher defensive line and with Rooney liking to drop alittle deeper than most forwards doand with players like Januzaj not sticking out wide and coming into the pitch suddenly their are lots of players close to Cleverley and he can play his natural game.

The tactics we are currently playing suit him and thus he plays better.

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Cleverley hadn't progressed the way I expected him to last season admittedly, but he is looking a little better recently. I do think the injury messed him up, he missed the majority of his debut season due to that Kevin Davies tackle and never looked the same when he come back from the injury. Hopefully he can keep progressing as Ramsey has shown how quickly players can go from zero to hero. The majority of Arsenal fans on the Arsenal page wanted him sold last season. Now he has been their best player. Cleverley needs to score more goals and create more IMO and I want to see him burst forward more often than he does, but to do that he will need options ahead of him or to his side and often there isn't anyone. He will always be a very useful MU squad player, but let's hope he can become more in time. That being said we do need midfield reinforcements and hopefully Cleverley and Jones can learn from them.

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Im not the lads biggest fan but credit where its due we look a better side with him playing long may it continue there's a few that seem to be standing up to be counted.

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Cleverley always was a very solid passer. He's playing better right now for one season and one season only, there's less space between the lines. With the defense pushing up, and rooney dropping back, it has created more options for him to pass whenever he has the ball.

He doesn't possess the range of carrick and/or Rooney, ( few midfielders do ) therefore he can't find a forward pass as often as them, but when Rooney dropped back and Januzaj tucked inside, the options became clearer and easier to find, and he left the playmaking to Rooney, concentrating on shifting the ball, keeping possession and controlling the tempo, leaving the creative duties to Rooney and defensive ones to Jones.

He still has to progress a lot and improve his all around game to the point where he is capable of of performing comfortably in a midfield 2 or 3 ( his passing range has significantly improved over last season so he is obviously learning )

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Dean, with SAF stepping down there was always going to be players getting nervous and losing confidence. SAF leaving would have left a massive hole. United have not become a poor side overnight, this is the same team that won the league easily last season. The difference is the players have not performed as good and with their confidence coming back, performances will inevitably improve. We certainly need 2-3 top quality players like I have always said, but this squad/team should be performing better than they have been this season. We will improve when stability and confidence returns.

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Cleverly is a decent player no more he will have to do untill we can get that top cm most fans want .
This year city, Chelsea, pool, arsenal have all improved as well as others and I think the over all standard of play at the top of the league has been a lot better.
I have seen More good performances so far this season than I did all last season.
United have lost Fergy and also the older players are looking about finished. I do wonder if the over 30s can handle moyes training.
Vidic, ferdy, Carrick even Rvp are the wrong side of 30 and have all been influential in the past.
Rvp is a special concern

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Cleverly is a decent player no more he will have to do untill we can get that top cm most fans want .
This year city, Chelsea, pool, arsenal have all improved as well as others and I think the over all standard of play at the top of the league has been a lot better.
I have seen More good performances so far this season than I did all last season.
United have lost Fergy and also the older players are looking about finished. I do wonder if the over 30s can handle moyes training.
Vidic, ferdy, Carrick even Rvp are the wrong side of 30 and have all been influential in the past.
Rvp is a special concern

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Cleverly needs to improve his shooting and score a few from outside the box. he is limited in a few departments and hence never an all-round midfielder that would be first 11 but always a good squad player.

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No doubt Moyes' training methods are too robust for the older players. They should be managing their own bodies as they know what their bodies can handle. We looked okay yesterday and should have scored six, but imagine if we had a missing spine of Vidic, Carrick & RvP playing as well. Confidence and stability will return in time if these players are playing.

It's clear what we need between now and September, a better LW & LB and a better version of what Cleverley does in the middle. What we need to take us where we need to be is obvious, but the fact remains that our squad has under performed this season and they can improve. SAF not being here has had an effect on the squad, but the fact remains it's the same squad as last season and we should be doing better.

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United should be doing better but arsenal, city and Chelsea should of done better last year .
That's football

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22 Dec 2013 01:21:18
We played at a much better pace today than we have all season, and it was the perfect tactics against a team like West Ham which does not have any really good finesse players. Our centre backs dealt with the aerial stuff really well, and that's all our opponents had to offer. The goal only came because it seemed Buttner was caught in a more Evra than Evra moment - maybe he forgot to take his Ritalin.

All you can do is beat the team that you're playing and they did that well. It should have been 4-1 - Hernandez was not offside. It could have been a lot more. For the fans to believe we've turned the corner we need to maintain this run and then beat a team above us.

Some questions: Are we witnessing a turnaround in Young's form? Do we really want to buy Morrison back? Are Moyes' training methods actually starting to pay off? Should we just go ahead and sell RVP and reinvest the funds? Don't we wish we we'd been the ones who bought Suarez to the Premier League?

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22 Dec 2013 00:15:38
Eds, is all this Messi 'drama' just his camp trying to get a better deal or is there something more to it? I'm not suggesting we would be able to afford him but I just wanted to know if there was more to this little spat?

Thanks,

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{Ed002's Note - It is just "stuff" - something to keep the message boards happy.}

It would be a tad silly for Messi to admonish the board for accusing him of demanding a pay rise, and then using that accusation as a reaspn to get a payrise. it doesn't make sense. he'llcontinue at Barca till his career ends.

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22 Dec 2013 00:21:40
With all the talk of how the team is playing and who we may or may not sign, I thought I'd praise a man that has endured a lot of criticism since he arrived and is now proving just how brilliant he is.

When Edwin van der Sar announced he was to retire, there were obvious concerns over who would be brought in to replace him. We put our trust in a young, scrawny Spaniard who, to the naked eye, looked like an expensive mistake. Yet, I was one of the few, and I mean few, that said from day one he would be the best goalkeeper in the world. And now, I would like those that did spout a load of sh!te(KLOOT) to have a nice piece of my brand new humble pie, fresh out of the oven.

There are few goalkeepers in the world as good as him right now. Incredible shot stopper, commanding of his area, quick of his line, makes himself big, vocal with his defence and built like a brick sh*thouse compared to the skeleton twig he was.

Take a bow, David de Gea.

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I completely agree with your post I've always rated De gea I watched him for about.a year before he signed and you could see how good he will be and even his first season when he was getting slated I always knew he would come good even when most thought not

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I remember being at the Vincente Caldron at the beginning of November 2009, it was either the 3rd of 4th.

De Gea started the game against Zaragoza and apart from a few rookie errors he was brilliant.

about 6 months before the game a few of my mates back in spain were going crazy about their young spanish keeper, that keeper though was Sergio Asenjo (who is still a good goalkeeper).

Not many were keen on the thought of this De Gea lad (or so I assume because nobody spoke of him when talking about youth prospects).

During this game against Zaragoza I remember 1 thing, A young De Gea giving away a stupid penalty, De Gea looked literally distraught then he walked to the side of his goal for 3/4 seconds, composed him self stepped back between the sticks and made a fantastic save.

I always thought he was destined for big things, never with United, I actually thought he would end up in Italy replacing Buffon.

nonetheless, the day we signed him I was ecstatic, even through the mistakes and beatings he got from the media it was clear to see that we had a keeper who could do the incredible saves but just needed work on his fundamentals, fast forward 2 seasons and we have a truly established keeper on the verge of being world class.

and mark my words, if De Gea stays for another 5 or 6 years he will surpass the level set by the great dane.

I'm sure he'd be Spains first choice for the WC if it wasn't for the brilliant form of Valdes currently, even Pepe Reina is doing well over in Italy I believe.

come the EC16 he will number 1 for United, number 1 for Spain and THE number 1 Goalkeeper in the world.

and just to add, I not once doubted this lads ability.

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He was always going to be in the top 2 goalies in the world

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22 Dec 2013 08:37:12
cech courtois top 2

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Always had faith in him, he's really improved in the air as well this season, hope we keep the lad for a long time to come.

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I can't see him moving to Real Madrid, He is an Atletico lad through and through so I would be suprised if he would go to Real.

Barcelona appear like the only team that could prise him away from us, they seem very interested in Marc-Andre ter Stegen or Thibaut Courtois if they sign either of them then they'll have a long term keeper.

The only other team I can see him moving to is back to Atletico Madrid, but I don't see him making that move before he is 30 at the earliest.

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De Gea knows the legacy that both Schmeical and Van Der Sar have left behind at United and knows just how highly regarded they are in terms of best ever goalkeepers. I don't think he'd want to leave because if successful he'll make a bigger name for himself at United than anywhere else.

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