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22 Jul 2012 23:29:06
RedDevil19, you're just as bad , where's this superstar clyne that'll def be joining utd or his world class winger mate ?
Dustbin
IsntClyne signing for Southampton to get game time?
Pardoe
Southampton.........................
PBMUFC
22 Jul 2012 23:28:01
So according to the Mirror we have agreed a fee of £26m for Lucas Moura.... interesting seeing that they posted a story saying that the club wanted more than £29m for him the other day!
They wanted 29 million euros...26 million pounds is roughly 32 million euros!
Andy
I thought they wanted around £32m, all these different reports are confusing!
22 Jul 2012 22:59:08
Wow, it seems criticising anything to do with the club makes you a glory hunter. In that case, everything is prefect and Bebe is going to score 45 goals this season with Evra finally learning how to defend.
G.A.G.U.S
No, just criticising everything to do with the club.
SqueakyBum
Wouldn't it be funny if bebe really did score 45 for someone.......
22 Jul 2012 22:30:55
Quick question to the Malcolm Glazer Appreciation Society
Would you be happy to start the league with the players we've got in the squad today and confident we have a very good chance of winning the title without spending?
Flimbo
Im a Manchester United supporter and nothing else and yes i do think after the singing of Kagawa and the return of Vidic we could win the league and maybe a domestic cup but not europe. We need to spend to compete in Europe once again.
George
Hang on Chelsea just won the CL whilst finishing 6th in the league, surely that must indicate the winners of the league should be at least challenging for the CL?
Flimbo
22 Jul 2012 22:27:42
So Ferguson says "If the fans are waiting for a £35m signing then they can wait!" and that players these days are overvalued and people still think we will buy Lucas Moura for £35 Mil plus? no chance
MANRED
United have agreed deal for Moura sorry if your disappointed
The agreed deal is speculation until the club or player announces it I won't believe it
Caolán.
22 Jul 2012 21:19:30
my ideal summer would be to bring in baines,rodriguez,moura,van persie and mvilla 100million i reckon would need to spend to get them and think would need to sell macheda,bebe,berbatov and sadly nani to raise about 40 million to have any chance of getting these also bring in gradually tunnecliffe,putrucci,blacket,lingard and the keane brothers to replace the likes of scholes,evra,carrick and giggs think we would only have to tinker a little over the next few years think we could have a solid yet skilful and quick team that is great to watch what does everyone think -----------------phil
I don't see the point in bringing both Rodriguez and Moura in. Surely it would be one or the other? I literally couldnt care if RVP did or didn't come, but I'd be very happy to see M'Vila arrive, although i would prefer Martinez. Just my opinions though.
#ags
It would be an amazing team yes there is no doubt about that but it would be more like 120m and that's without the signings of Kagawa and Powell which would bring it up to 140m. Which ain't happening!
Kai
22 Jul 2012 20:55:25
In trying to imagine how the new (and potential) purchases fit into the lineup, what do people think about Valencia playing RB more this season. He's done it when needed in the past, and it allows us to play Nani on the right (where he's much much better than the left) and keep Valencia's threat down the line with overlapping runs. I'm not sure if I'd try it against the better teams, but surely Reading would not enjoy seeing Nani cutting in from the right with Valencia overlapping. This has nothing to do with Rafael, Jones or Smalling's performances or potential at RB, just wondering about ways to get all of these players on the pitch. Thoughts? -KG
I think we need Valencia as our right winger, in that position he's better than Nani (in terms of tracking back and his crossing ability). Sadly i think nani will probably get pushed out, there's clubs interested in him and we'd fetch at least 20 million for him and probably more. It is a shame but he just didn't come to the club at the right time (Ronaldo and Valencia coming in and even Young on the left didn't help him). Rafael was grat at RB last season, and he and Valencia had a really good partnership and worked the over laps well! Hopefully we'll look to a 4-3-3 formation, I think this would best suit the players we've brought in/will hopefully be bringing in.
De Gea
Rafael Vidic Evans Evra
Valenica Carrick/Powell Young
Moura Rooney Kagawa
Anderson and Nani to go which leaves Scholes, Giggs, Jones and Cleverly as extra midfield options. I wouldn't mind another CM but I reckon we won't make a move for one until January or maybe next summer! Unless Bilbao are really keen on Ando and we can use him to get Witsel. The fact is there are so many formations open to us that they'll change game by game. But i think some variation of 4-3-3 could, and should be used given the attacking nature of the players we've got and are hopefully going to bring in!
Andy
I was thinking about this yesterday, and it would mean we would have two very strong teams to rotate, the only 1st team squad player to miss out would be Chicha. With this in mind the signing of RVP could unbalance the squad slightly unless we sell Hernandez which i don't want BUT...look at the two teams we could put out. For me it's a potential treble winner.
Put agree if you think the squad below would be capable of winning everything next year, dissagree if you don't.
------------RVP-----------
Nani----Kagawa---Moura
--Anderson--Cleverley--
Baines--Vidic--Rio--Rafa
-----------DDG-----------
--------------Welbeck-------------
--------------Rooney--------------
Young--Scholes-Carrick-Valencia
Evra---Evans---Smalling---Jones
-------------Lindegard-------------
Kai {Ed004's Note - Rooney would have to be on the first team tbh}
It's not a 1st team or second team situation my point was that we would have two top quality players for each position that we could make two amazing teams out of, switch it up any way you want. Either of those teams could compete with most teams in the world.
Kai
22 Jul 2012 20:53:55
Hi guys,
What do you all think of mats daehli I think he will be a great little player. I also like jack Barmby very direct and scores goals, can anyone tell me about parreria and janzauj( spelling) what are they like I haven't seen anything of them?
Caolán.
Matts daehli is a very good prospect but we will need to get him bulked up a bit as he grows as he,s very lightweight.my own opinion is that he is 2-3 years away from being with the 1st team set up.
johndenton
22 Jul 2012 19:21:16
eds with nick powell playing well in pre season do you think he might not go on loan. {Ed007's Note - I never expected him to go out on loan.}
With Nick Powell playing well? He's only played 20 minutes
fearny
22 Jul 2012 19:59:50
If things do happen we could be in for very interesting time over next few wks,I would have gone with fergie would have 50m budget to spend&maybe more with sales, talk of around 16/18m spent already with Kag/Powell,so if ur adding talk of 32m for Moura&i think realistic if want RVP that gona take 22-25m.then there's got to be players on way out. Park gone but Berba,Ando mus be favourites to be next....there is just thing where I don't believe all things that come from Utd are true,the lies over money been told for years now thru floation are starting to come out
22 Jul 2012 19:55:23
So apparently spurs want Nani and are prepared to pay £25m. If this is true then levy has got some cheek after saying modric is worth £40m
RR
22 Jul 2012 19:45:53
People saying we have 50m to spend, if true, then we have already spent 20 on Kagawa(17) and Powell(3) so Lucas Moura will be our only signing of the summer if he signs, so if he does expect no more signings until next summer earliest unless some players are sold which I doubt, apart from Berbatov, as they all look part of his plans for next season including Anderson to all those saying he will be sold, no chance.
Jake F
22 Jul 2012 19:29:19
OK so here's a question for you. We were knocked out of both European competitions last season by teams who were technically better than us and tactically far better than us. Giggs and Scholes are now far too old to play in top class European games even though Fergie will tell us their experience is invaluable. Neither Wellbeck or Rooney play the sole striker well. Evera is always caught out of position defensively. Cleverly seems to be believing the hype and spends more time in the gossip pages than on the back pages. The team seems to have no natural leader. SO HERE IS THE BIG QUESTION. Who do we need to make us stronger or is it a case of our tactics. Please be realistic and remember our financial constraints. I AM KLOOT
Ok I'll play Kloot.
First off Phelan out and a tactically astute number 2 in, get Carlos back, bring Blanc whoever, anyone that has more of a clue than Phelan. Thats sorts a lot of issues.
Second a midfielder like Witsel/ Fellaini to come in and do the dirty work in games. I'd tear up Fletchers contract and hand him the reserve coaches job. No point waiting for him to come back when its a slim chance.
Thirdly relegate Scholes to the bench apart from cup games and have him mentor the kids along with Giggs and very firmly tell them both their going in 12 months.
Fourthly, left back is the hard one to solve, Baines too expensive and Izaguirre not quite good enough but they are the leading contenders.
That should solve a few. Mort.
I agree with this we don't have a leader in the midfield. Our captain should be Vidic if he comes back ok and if not straight away then Rio.
We do need a midfield general such as Keano, personally I like M'Villa, reasonable price, reminds me very much of Vieira and I don't think that's a bad thing.
KLOOT
I think there is a mixture of a few things.
Personell, tactics, No 2, player prices, agent fees, SAF stubbornness have all contributed to our rubbish style of football and dependence on ancient players playing on their names merit.
The old (not so financially tied) SAF would have sold or got rid of the likes of Evra, Rio, Nev, Giggs, Ando, Berba way before now. I know Nev has gone but if SAF had his way we would still have him.
We have got ourselves into a situation here where the likes of Scholes, Rio, Giggs are still the ones starting the massive title deciders against world class players 10-15 years younger than them. Talent they were matching maybe 5 years ago but not now. We are almost carrying Giggs, Ando, Evra when we play them and have players like Berba who cannot play the type of game we are trying to evolve to. Well I say that but we went back to the same old 4-4-1-1 crap the other day.
SAF is clearly scared that the last 1 maybe 2 years of his career might be tainted if he tries with tthe youth and keeps experienced players out and we lose. Problem is we are losing with the experienced ones and now the young top talent costs a bomb and we are financially limited compared to others we are backing out of deals due to agents and wages instead of paying whats needed every now and then to get the man SAF wants. That is something he used to pride himself on, getting his man. Now we are 'looking at' one or 2 things but never get the top quality players needed that they can start those big games and give us more chance of staying competitive.
A funny comment by SAF today 'I could field a team under 22 or 23' yet when it comes to City away title decider almost we match up to their 3 man midfield with a 37 and 38 year old?
Sooner we get new blood in the better and i mean at the top and the team.
Jono
KLOOT, This is when you are actually okay to read and reply to you asked a good question and had good valid points on everything. I believe Scholes is still capable in European games if we play 3 in midfield so he doesnt have to run as much. Im not convinced on Cleverley i think he is actually quite over rated and i prefer Anderson in all honesty who i think when fully fit is actually a very good player. Rooney imo has to play in the hole if Welbeck or Hernandez are playing but with Kagawa being bought in they will supply rooney with alot more chances and some threat through the middle instead of relying purely on the wingers which i think was our problem we were far too one dimensional last season. Evar imo will have one more season to let Fabio come back unless Baines can be bought at the right price which will be a struggle. Vidic coming back will be our leader once again as he is a very capable captain. I agre tactically we were very predictable last season just giving the ball to the wingers but we didnt have a top notch striker up top and no attacking threat in the centre of midfield. I would love to see Anderson and Carrick in our midfield with Kagawa behind Rooney as it will be a very potent force .
George
You know what we need? You to actually support the team! We need vidic and cleverly fit. How's he in the gossip pages when he has only played 1 full game in 7 or 8 months. Welbeck and Rooney are good goalscorer we do have a few natural leaders, Ferdinand would be captain if he didn't have his injury record, vidic puts his body on the line every game, jones is a future captain and Rooney who should have been captain when vidic go injured last season. So tell me what's wrong with our team? Scholes and giggs the finest player of their generation!
Caolán.
It's tactics and personnel KLOOT.
G.A.G.U.S
Do you call yourself a United supporter I AM KLOOT? Because maybe you bloody well shouldn't! All your posts are moan, moan, moan. Yes we didn't do well in Europe last year for a number of reasons but we lost the PL by goal difference to a team with mounds of money at their disposal. We were plagued with injuries last year, these things happen! Rooney rarely played the sole striker role last season as we normally operated a variation of 4-4-2, if anything Rooney was the deeper player on some occasions! So why don't you be realistic and accept that teams have difficult seasons, and have some f*****g faith!
Andy
22 Jul 2012 19:07:12
What is all the fuss and urgency regarding our team and saying weve basically got no hope ? We can still win the league with what weve got in my opinion.
Completely agree, however we will not be able to compete on all four fronts and we will still need to replace Scholes next summer when he leaves. We should be doing that now while we have Scholes at the club.
Sydney!
I agree Syd but who would want to join when we have got Anderson, Kagawa, Carrick, Scholes, Cleverley, Giggs, tunners, petrucci etc it will have to be someone who walks into the team easily or who will wait for there chance. I would love to see Carrick and Anderson as our pairing if there both fit as im a big fan.
George
22 Jul 2012 19:04:43
Ronaldo was, and still is either the best, or secnd best player in the world so £80 million was a fair price. Fee's of £30-£40 million for teenagers and under 21's does show a lack of value in the transfer market - just look at Andy Carrol.
RedDevil19
^^^ Great reply mate i couldnt agree more, there is value in players like Ozil and Alba who we both tried for but they didnt wish to come to us which is fine but then you see Carroll who looked okay but a £15million at best and then Hazard at £34million who is a very young player with potential but was still potential and had an okay season yet still demanded over 150k wages and his agent wanted 5million for himself. How does a young lad demand to be worth £34million at any point unless hes proven he can cut it in a top league which few have..
I would love £30million players to come in just like the next fan but i also see the sense of refusing to pay that amount when you see Khedira, Ozil, Alba, Vidal etc going for less than Downings and Hazards. Every transfer is a risk and you have to be careful which im glad Fergie is
Well there is an argument there that if United didn't refuse to sell Ronaldo for anything less than £80M then players like Andy Carroll wouldn't be going for £35M as it is the big transfer fees that sets the tone for the prices for the rest of the players. Andy Carroll had a better season than Torres at the time of the transfers so Liverpool thought they were getting the bargain of a lifetime by selling an under performing has been and replacing him with the most inform young English striker in the league for £15M less although the transfer hasn't worked out the way they hoped but to be honest Torres cost £50M and he has done worse at his club so from a Liverpool point of view it was still good business
Flimbo
Flimbo
No-name
There is being careful and there is unwilling (or unable ££) to take the risk.
You could argue a players value till the cows come home but we all know a value of an asset is determined by the talent the player has + his current clubs valuation + the purchasing clubs willingness to pay.
Is Andy Carroll a 35m pound striker? haha no chance but to Liverpool on that hectic deadline day he was.
Was Rio a 28m pound CB when some of the worlds best were going for 10m less? To us he was. Different transfers are different value and its up to the manager to decide if for instance Moura is the player he wants and thinks can develop into a brilliant player is he worth 30+m now to us?
People seem to think we were never involved in pushing price boundaries but even recently we bought a top player in Hargo from a direct European rival for 16m when at the same time bought 2 youngsters from Portugal in Ando and Nani for more than Hargo. So we have paid what was needed in the past just seems SAF has a limit of what HE deems a valuation and if he doesn't get the 'value' in the deal it won't happen.
To the detriment of our team.
Jono
22 Jul 2012 19:01:53
i see further down a poster has said that he would like guardiola (spelling) at united whilst he maybe good he inherited a side and also a system so in my mind unproven i feel mourinho would be a better manager although again like someone said further down pare IF lambert was to be successful then he may be worth a glance he is very pragmatic and tactically very astute, just a thought
I rate lambert but I think when you are one if not the biggest club in the world it could be a big jump for him to follow the legend.you need to have someone who has seen and done it and has that bit of arrogance, mourinho is the man for me..
22 Jul 2012 18:39:31
Just a quick observation Toni posted a pic on twitter of himself yesterday with his new squad number, which was number 7. Lucas Moura wheres number 7 so surely if he was a chance of him signing surely we would have kept the number 7 shirt available because he obvious likes that number and the connotations it has with our club and the previous legends that have worn it.
Just an observation anyone have any thought on this.
By the way Moura looks like he could surpass Ronaldo cop are him to ronaldo when he was at sporting and then imagine what we could teach him.
Valencia deserves the number 7
He's class and is easily the best winger in the prem.
If not the best out and out winger in the world.
Hes so direct and it works, and he's crosses vary.
He's got pace, strength, can score, defend and is amazing at passing and crossing, never gives the ball away.
And a united legend he will be.
MUFC1990
Moura is 19 and if he signs he will be moving to a new country & culture and with the added pressure of a big fee as well, so why add more pressure on top. He has time on his side to earn the 7 and valencia won't be here forever. Mort.
I'm sure he would live with a different number on the back of his football shirt!
Whistler.
22 Jul 2012 18:37:00
I usually don't like the idea of spending lots of money on a single player. However, I think Moura would be worth it. I just think he has the age and skill you can't pass.
22 Jul 2012 18:33:35
Just a question for Sydney amongst others, what loanee's do you expect us to send out? I think that Lingard, Tunnicliffe, Petrucci and Wooton could stick around the first team for a bit. Macheda will go on loan I imagine. Perhaps Wooton will go on loan when Smalling and a couple other defenders are fit. Vermijl also might go on loan and King. I certainly hope to see a lot more of Lingard, Wooton, Tunnicliffe and also see more of Petrucci as they all have bright futures with us ahead of them.
RedDevil19
Depends on incoming players too. The club are looking to offload Kiko, King and Bebe, but there isn't much interest. Perhaps after the tour they will be loaned out with an option to buy. Tunnicliffe & Petrucci need EPL loans, but may stay for a couple League Cup games. If they were to impress they may stay longer. Lingard, Cole, Brown, Amos, Johnstone will all go out on loan amongst others. Wootton will stick around until Smalling is fit. Vermijl may well stick around and be back-up to Jones and Rafael. Brady will go out on loan and Blackett will more than likely go out too. Veseli could go out on loan. A lot depends on who we sign, sell and whether clubs want to loan these players. It's hard to stay. Some will even have a price-tag if the price is met they may be sold. Tunnicliffe, Blackett, Petrucci, Lingard, Cole & Johnstone will not have a price-tag on their head. All very much in the manager's plans.
Sydney!
22 Jul 2012 18:27:43
If you read the banter page you can see straight away who is a Man United fan for the long haul regardless of success or money spent and then you see the so called 'fans' who are clearly in it just for the success and bragging rights because of our dominance in the premier league.
Support the team and not the transfer kitty.
George
George
Interesting point of view
Where were you when we were relegated in 1974? I will be interested to know
Red Man
Well said George!
GDS
Red Man, even though the question was not at me, how is it a fair one? I wasn't even born then therefore I'm not a true fan? OK
SqueakyBum
I've been a fan since Big Ron's time, one of my earliest memories is the '85 final, so i've seen some of the rubbish we endured in the 80's and the wait for that league title.
Idealisticaly i want 11 British players who know what it means to to be on that pitch and winning games. Realistically we have to accept that money has ruined the game and players believe the hype too much. Thats said we can;t be throwing money around as we don't have it. Mort
Very good post George. And Red Man, who cares where he was in 1974? I wasn't even born, doesn't make me not a true 'fan'.
RedDevil19
Squeaky
George said then you see the so called 'fans' who are clearly in it just for the success and bragging rights because of our dominance in the premier league
I was in it before we were relegated during our relegation and after it. It means that I am not in it for bragging rights nor am I in it because of our dominance in the PL. George was aiming that at those who disagreed with him without realising that some supported before our relatively recent success and have an opinion different to his about where we are. George made a sweeping statement without thinking it through.
Red Man
How many who critisise posters on here are actually match going reds ? as redman says how many followed utd all over in the dark days of the 70,s and 80,s not many i would guess.are the people who have a go at kloot match going ? if not then should you have a say in how utd are run or the glazers.if you dont contribute to utd,s turnover should you have a say ,people who pay there season ticket year in year out should be the only ones it effects not the glory hunters,if you live in the uk and have never been to a game theres no excuse.
johndenton
I was not born then so therefore irrelevant. I love and support the badge not the name on the back of the shirt.
George
I wasn't born then either but can remember when city used to finish above us. Being born in time to see us relegated is no measure of a true fan, pretty ridiculous question in my eyes.
Brendan
I'd quite like to get relegated. I've always wanted to support a club in the lower divisions. Less traffic, cheaper tickets, a reason to complain. Utter bliss.
M.D.
All you negative posters should be ashamed of yourselves. We should be United as fans irrespective of when we were born or what games we went to or how many season tickets we buy. What should bond us together is our pride in the glorious history of our club based on youth and flair.And by the way, for the fans that feel that everything at the club is just fine at the moment there are three clues in my last sentence that you need to think about - Glory, youth and flair. These are the ingredients that define Manchester United and when any of these are missing, something is wrong. Anyone disagree?
OLE4EVRA
Red Man i was just stating that it is obvious that you can tell the difference between real fans and so called 'fans'. Just because i was born at the start of the dominant era i am still name after george best and still watch games before i was born and learn about the past, You cant tell me that some fans ride on our success and use it as leverage against other supporters from lesser clubs or do it just to make them selves better tan others like its a competition of who can support the the best team or sign the most expensive player. I just think people should support the badge and not the name on the back of the shirt simple.
George
22 Jul 2012 18:10:32
I think Rvp will come to us and fergie will bid for lucas 32m
Well he can probably afford it, but still....
M.D.
22 Jul 2012 17:07:26
I'm still baffled by the fact we are chasing more attacking players when we are short at LB and DM. I know our style isn't to play with a DM but can't help think that if we had more strength in the middle, we would be so much better off.
As much as I like the look of moura and see he has potential and sell on value, I honestly don't think he will add to much to the team. Any thoughts?
I do like the sound of RVP up front with wazza but hope he doesn't cost to much, hopefully he won't cost anymore than £22M, especially given the reports of the wages he wants!!
I always trust in SAF and always will, so guess it's just a case of sitting tight and seeing what happens...
NickTheRed (WSL)
Tunnicliffe and jones are the hope in that position the club and sir alex view it that way anyway
22 Jul 2012 16:53:27
Hearts and minds often find themselves at odds. Foremost, we want success but ther is that other voice that really wants it to be OUR guy that gets it done. Football is full of tough decisions and I do not envy ferguson in this regard, but - in order to improve the squad and meet the challenges before us - it has to be clear that we should upgrade whenever possible. It just becomes tough to rationalize these cutthroat feelings. Sure, I love Hernandez but when I ask myself whether or not I think he will really be up to it, particularly as we bat around names like Rvp and lewandowski, I would eventually have to shut off this voice that says it would stunt so-and-so's development and go with what would be best for the club. To a certain degree, The same can be said for these conversations revolving around the likes of cleverley, carrick, welbeck, and so on. Loyalty is a wonderful trait which supporters of this club carry. However, sooner or later, we have to admit that, in order to keep up with some of the squads being assembled amongst our rivals, we may have to sacrifice a modicum of our personal regard for an individual and sell our souls out just a wee bit. It is the state of the current game and a diabolical bargain. Nonetheless, there is no need to slag off current players to justify a desire for a better option. Stay positive and keep faith in saf.
Windy City Red
Ps, headed to see Roma play at our Wrigley field today against some second-tier polish squad. Crap game on paper, but a hell of an experience given the venue and the ethnic make-up of this town.
22 Jul 2012 16:21:01
Does anyone honestly think that we could still sign van Persie, Lucas Moura and Baines? I think it will be Baines plus either van Persie or Moura. We can only field 11 players and our attacking players aren't too bad as it is.
RedDevil19
22 Jul 2012 16:13:18
Hi
First time poster.
I have no basis for this rumour but I also think this is going to be fergies last season as manager and he will want to go out winning a trophy or two. This has been talked about on earlier posts, however I think it's going to be Pep taking over after he's had rest from leaving Barca. Wouldn't be surprised if he came in at some point during the season to smooth the way.
Maybe it's just wishful thinking but I hope it's true.
22 Jul 2012 15:59:38
I'm getting a bit tired of all these supporters bashing some of our players, all these players have been massively berated on this website:
Chicharito: Out of confidence, just needs a few goals and he'll be back to his best, and get this apparent 'lost spark' back.
Anderson and Cleverly: Injured last season, but both top quality players with a big future ahead of them.
Valencia: This one shocked me, he is in my opinion in our top three players with Rooney and Vidic and is the best right sided midfielder in the league.
Nani: Top, top player on his day, we've got plenty of consistant players but few that can change the game like he can when on form.
And as for people saying that we are 'living on borrowed time' because we're not replacing our big name midfielders with 'big' signings. Take a look on youtube at Lingard, his movement, 1st touch and passing is exceptional for a teenager and Paul Scholes rates him as having the potential of Iniesta or Xavi.
And there's Powell on youtube you see his wondergoals, but what you don't see is his intelligence, passing and maturity on the ball. I can see him taking Scholes position and this is where SAF has said he wants him to play.
Finally we have what we have needed IMO for years and that's a Keane replacement. Tunnicliffe has all the attributes to become a fantastic box to box midfielder, likes a tackle, quick, a good passer and isn't afraid to shoot.
Have some faith in SAF, and get behind your team. We are United and we are going no-where but up.
Red Joe
Brilliant post Red Joe, just what I have been saying. I'm just waiting for Kagawa to get some stick while he is bedded in, he will probably be classed as a small time signing.
RedDevil19
Well said redjo - we have a great team and the best club in the world.
Mike
22 Jul 2012 15:50:11
To be honest I'm very disappointed with what SAF said and find him to be quite arrogant about the situation. I have loved the guy since I was a kid and have defended him countless times in arguments with opposing fans of the usual suspects over the years but I feel he is being ignorant to us fans about the whole issue and also a hypocrite when it comes to transfer fees because if he really felt that the fees are ridiculous then why didn't he let Ronaldo go for £20M to make his point?
Also, he might be a legend to United and its fans but that doesn't mean he has the power to dictate how and who other football clubs do business with, nor is it up to him to decide how much a player deserves to be paid, he is a manager who is paid well to do his job as manager and one of those jobs is to keep the fans happy and so if the fans want to see the worlds best players in the team then he should be prepared to pay what our rivals are paying to get them whether he agrees with the fees or not.
Football is a rapidly changing business and as with any business its the managers job to embrace that change in order to remain successful regardless of his own opinions. It doesn't matter what excuses he makes, if he doesn't sign the players we need and we end up trophy less at the end of the season then he hasn't done his job correctly and he will have nobody to blame but himself for blatantly ignoring the warning signs and remaining stuck in his arrogant ways.
I hope this isn't the case but its wrong of him to expect people to fork out large sums of money to support his team and then turn around and tell the fans we wont be investing that money in the team as the Glazers are a much more worthy cause as thats where the money is going anyway!
Flimbo
Unbelievable.
M.D.
Ronaldo was, and still is either the best, or secnd best player in the world so £80 million was a fair price. Fee's of £30-£40 million for teenagers and under 21's does show a lack of value in the transfer market - just look at Andy Carrol.
RedDevil19
So basically what your saying is it is Fergie's fault for not over paying agent fees and wages so therefore he is arrogant ? What is your thinking behind that ? At the end of the day the Glazers are his bosses so he has to back them up and in all honesty i agree with everything in the report on the bbc website. People seem to forget the success we have had as soon as we have one season where we fall short ? Why do people get on Fergies back when clearly he knows what hes doing and he is trying to build a team for the future when hes gone. It amazes me that people can bad mouth Fergie over anything... no respect at all.
No respect? Where in that post did I disrespect Fergie? Its so disappointing that people either don't read a post properly or just plain don't understand it and immediately spew out how you're not a true fan or how dare you disrespect the manager etc. What I said was.....IF.....he fails to sign the players we need due to his reluctance to pay agents fees etc and we end up trophy less again, then he has nobody to blame but himself as it is quite obvious that our squad of players were not good enough and its his job as manager to do his very best to make sure that doesn't happen. I would like to add that I have every confidence in him winning the league but only if he spends money on the right players, if not then its unlikely we will do any better than last season which, I think, will be unacceptable after he has said that there was no need to spend big money on players. You cannot argue with that as its an absolute fact whether you like it or not and you were wrong to say I am disrespectful, end of story.
Flimbo
RedDevil19
The point is that if SAF doesn't like the prices then thats his opinion but he contradicts that opinion by playing a major part in the biggest transfer in football history so he is a hypocrite when he says that the fees are crazy when it was himself who pushed Ronaldos price up to £80M, how come he didn't have a problem with Ronaldo's agent getting his cut at the time either!
Flimbo
Funny thing is Flimbo.
If Ronnies agent was to ask for something totally ridiculas and Madrid were unwilling to pay he would have been happy then though eh?
Jono
Right Flimbo, I get it your a passionate supporter and you don't like the Glazers but Fergie also has to keep in mind that he is on the pay roll of the Glazers and if the Glazers ask him to say he is pro them then THAT is also part of his job. It might not be a part of his job that I agree with or like but it is part of his duties as much as making supporters happy.
In short he has his hands tide, would you prefer him to come out bad mouth his employer anger them and end up with no transfer funds?
And finally have you ever considered that Fergie (who is famous for this btw) is using the media to his advantage? If he came out and said there is value in the market, then surely clubs would up there prices. Saying what he said makes clubs like Sao Paulo think he is close to walking away from the deal and therefore more likely to take the offer on the table.
Red Joe
22 Jul 2012 14:23:15
Hypothetically of we did sign Van Persie what formation could we use, we could use 4-2-3-1 but I feel Kagawa would be wasted out wide or in central midfield I like him behind the striker, just wanted to know other peoples thoughts ?
ShaunMUFC
22 Jul 2012 13:05:49
Fergie's comments today are very illuminating. The Hazard transfer came down to money, he didn't simply chose Chelsea for the london lifestyle. If 34m for Hazard is silly money, then we won't be paying a similar amount for Moura. The comments on the Glazers and "real" fans knowing that they're good for the club were just condescending. I understand that you can't come out and criticise your employers but the idea that anyone who questions the direction of the club under the Glazers isn't a real supporter is pathetic.
I'm sure that we'll have a whole host of sunny optimists, led by Glazer Defence Squad himself, telling me that everything is rosy, that we've bid for some top class players and it's just rotten luck that none of them have been signed. But we haven't signed any of these big names and we haven't addressed the biggest problems in our team (cm and lb). Today we were told, from the horses mouth, that there is no value in the market and that we will put our faith in youth. How many years are people going to buy these lines until they accept that the club is doing everything in its power to operate on the cheap while debasing anyone who questions what they are doing?
Danny Pughnited
Everything is rosy, that we've bid for some top class players and it's just rotten luck that none of them have been signed.
GDS
Great post Danny, I'm sick of the condescending posters who profess to be diehard fans when they're nothing short of delusional
Flimbo
22 Jul 2012 11:24:42
Ed Edd or Eddy,
just read SSN running the fergie doubts Hazard value article, (the figure Saf said was too high was 34 million, read into that what you may) SSN also reporting United have bid in the region of 27 million to secure the services of Lucas Moura,
Contradiction or what right? So my question is, is this SAF beginning the psychological warfare early?
Doesnt Saf usually hold his tongue on other clubs players? I am the only one who thinks he is acting strange?
Bear in mind he only just announced united have bid for RVP, which I thought was out of character.
penny for your thoughts?
Cban {Ed002's Note - You are reading way too much in to nothing.}
22 Jul 2012 11:45:17
Can't believe the amount of "fans" here that are so quick to criticise our players. Looks like they have moved from Carrick to Nani to now Hernandez. Bearing in mind we have played 2 Pre season games. Kagawa played about 3 quarters of the match and yes he had some good touches but apparently he's the next Messiah already. Calm down folks.
SqueakyBum
Agreed, most fans don't seem happy unless they can get on the back of someone. Carrick has proven his quality, Nani is a top player and Hernandez is good in the box, we have always known thats the only place he is good at.
RedDevil19
22 Jul 2012 11:29:29
have read the quotes from sir alex this morning and while i am reluctant to contradict him his remarks are very contradictory. i agree with his points he has made regarding the glazers but the fact remains that amount of money spent on interest would have allowed to buy marqee signings or gone along way to extending old trafford. also his praise for carrick is amazing. he is decent but nothing more........martinez would by far the better player and would a fergie of old allowed the likes of scholes and giggs continue without being replaced, i think not! it is to fergies credit that we remain at top but i fear that without proper midfield reenforcements we wont be the force we once were
22 Jul 2012 11:26:24
So, Fergie is now quoted on Skysports.com as saying that the "Climate for buying top players is ridiculous". This sounds suspiciously like "no value in the market" to me. Perhaps all the made up newspaper lies are just that - made up lies, and we have not really put in a serious bid for anyone. Now that season ticket sales are more advanced, the true position is being unveiled. I hope I am wrong and that we sign Lucas Moura, RVP, a left back and a centre half, but I won't be holding my breath!
Mike B.
Why ignore all the other comments and just focus on that one? Do you not agree some players are well overpriced?
GDS
It's no secret we are finding it hard to agree deals with Baines, Moura and RVP because they are being overpriced by their clubs. I think we may pay slightly over the odds this summer seems it's likely to be the manager's final season in charge.
Sydney!
We set the bar when we sold Ronaldo for a world record yet SAF has the temerity to moan about other clubs asking large fees for their players
Red Man
Ronaldo was a steal at £80m.
Sydney!
22 Jul 2012 11:06:14
is this £50 million from now or before other two came in?
It's just crap from the papers! Who in there right mind would tell everyone how much you have to spend! They are just thinking moura for 30 and rvp for 20 and makeung up a story with it.
REDP
It's from a newspaper article, that's all.
I doubt a single newspaper will know exactly how much we have to spend.
Supasub
It's supposedly meant for just RVP and Moura. It stated that half was for RVP and half for moura, which doesn't make any sense to me. RVP is not worth 25m and you can't see Sao Paolo excepting 25m for Lucas.
Red Joe
22 Jul 2012 10:41:45
If we do get Moura it will be another Portuguese speaking player.
Add to that the twins, Nani, Anderson etc does this mean that SAF thinks Mourinho will come in next summer?
I think myself he's been destined to arrive at some point for the last few years.
Supasub
Me thinks that you're digging too deep. Maybe he'll come but that's not the reason why we have Portuguese speaking players.
B
22 Jul 2012 10:29:44
I think what was interesting was that SAF also talked about agents fees and the refusal to pay them. It is strange how the manager so staunchly defends people who have plunged us into hundreds of millions in debt and seen £500m in interest etc go out of the club.
I have to admit concern at his comment about £30m plus players that we will have to wait, almost like there is a glass ceiling on fees of over £30m, almost as if there something where deals over a certain amount need to be approved by the bond holders.
The clock is ticking and I have concern we will get the no value tripe again and after a summer of we tried and made offers we will be told agents fees and wages are just unacceptable but we tried. We know what we need but his comments could easily be construed as the first salvo in letting us down, again.
The window is not closed but SAFs comments on Carrick concern me in that he sees him as key, someone who is 31 next week plus Scholes who controls midfield better according to SAF than anyone else. Carrick I like as a player but one of our problems is that we do not have enough movement or pace yet SAF sees those two as key players. It is no good idolising Scholes as our quarterback as he like Berbatov is now slowing our game down, we don't seem to replicate the quick tempo that is needed to break teams down.
I can see why we should buy a striker but would go for Lewandowski before RVP but it is that type of striker we need to make the most of Kagawa. I agree with Moura although have always liked Muniain and yet that CM role doesn't appear on the cards. I just hope we are not being given false hope in the transfer market as we have in past windows only to be disappointed to the point of utter frustration on 1st Sept. One comment by SAF that the majority of fans are supportive of the Glazers, is this a sign of being out of touch with the grass roots something SAF has always seemed feel he was in touch with?
Red Man
The reason he defends the Glazers mate it one of two reasons
1) They are his bosses
2) He's the reason they are here
Mike the Moston Red
Fergie is full of it how is hazard not value? One of the best young players in the world who one day may be in the top 3 players in the world.
Yet we buy Powell from Crewe.
It's a joke, every year it's no value this no value that.
Fergie just doesn't understand change. FERGIE OUT
Transfer fees are just one part of a player's cost so it's highly unlikely there is a £30m limit on transfer fees alone. If a player is signed for £29m then he's going to end up costing around £40m in the end.
Players will be individually valued by the club and the club are unlikely to pay over the odds for a player. Even if I do believe this is the time to pay slightly over the odds. It's important that we sign a LB and 1-2 top quality players.
Sydney!
As much as I love Scholes, you are right. He is slowing the game down for us. As a sub when we need to keep the ball - perfect. We need some dynamic players in the middle. We can all see that but obviously so can Sir Alex. But, just because someone commands a huge fee, does not mean he is the right player for us. Anderson has one last season this year and I do think he is a good midfielder, its just his fitness that has let him down. Jones will play there too. I hope Cleverley plays the way he did last year but we must remember he is a young lad who has missed alot of football in the last year - we cant put too much pressure on him. Carrick is hugely underated but is not the player who will dominate games and damage teams. He keeps us ticking over. I still think a 10-15mill bid of fellani would not be too bad. He dominates midfield and he wouldn't be expected to bust a gut to get forward as he is at Everton. It allows him to focus on the best part of his game - the physical side. I think he gets booked so often as he is shattered playing a a box to box player.
In regards to the agents fee's, I think we should look at the players that we lost out on.....Ronaldhino, Robben, Essien etc. We have never been the best payers of wages or fees and this has hampered us more and more. Arsenal are the same and look where they have ended up. We need to start spending more on players but to do this, we must rid ourselves of the debt. The flotation will hopefully give us an idea maybe of a timescale when we will be debt free.
Jamesmack8
22 Jul 2012 09:43:52
This is all sounding so familiar. We get linked with lots of big name players who never quite sign for us and then Sir Alex comes out and defends the Glazers. Ask yourself this question Why? If there wasn't a problem why would he feel the need to defend them and go on about how much they back him. Or is it that they back off asking the 72 questions that the Irish put to him when he was after his money for the Rock. Those questions soon made him back down on that one and seemed to be able to control him at the moment. If there is no problem there is no need to talk about it. I know i will get the usual "Emperors new clothes" brigade who refuse to see anything wrong will come on here and attack me for my views but that is because i was supporting the team when we still had the words Football club on the badge and we weren't just a brand for merchandising teams to whore around the world and we were getting crowds of 30,000 or 19,000 at home to Wimbledon. Seems to me that success brings an awful lot of baggage with it most of whom comment on here if i dare to suggest that all isn't rosy in the garden. I AM KLOOT
KLOOT what are you talking about? We bid £29million for one of the best young talents there has ever been in world football and we bid for a top striker and we have signed a class player already and the flotation is happening to go debt free yet you still complain, go live in a hole !
George
I think that episode was alot more to do with the fact that McManus & obrien would probably have the best barrister(s) available. Probably small print or something left out, your never going to out-smart a couple of Irish horse owners.
Supasub
George
Bidding and winning a bid are two different things, the jury remains out for me until we see the players actually arrive
Red Man
The Grand Canyon would be appropriate for such as self opinionated buffoon as KLOOT
ARB
KLOOT gets all eat up about politics.
Have some faith, I think 1 more good signing will be coming to Old Trafford. Moura hopefully, sorted before Olympics but not announced until afterwords. That's my gut feeling anyhow.
KLOOT have a shot of OPTIMISM!
Cban
Kloot I understand what you are saying with the players who nearly sign for us. In the recent past we have IMO put bids in which are slightly under the asking price of the selling club and had the players who we thought we had effectively signed nicked by another club.
However, how will you feel if we were to spend say 60-70 million more this summer? Would you begin to think perhaps the Glazers realise we need to spend to stay competitive? Obviously 99% of fans will still dislike them but surely you would think that it would be a promising sign if we showed we were willing to spend money?
Rjmanutd
It's hard to work out exctly what you're moaning about today tbh, KLOOT. So SAF answers a question by saying he receives backing from the owners and in your head this means - he does not receive backing from the owners...strange logic. I understand your worries about our finances but really you seem to hunt for the negatives sometimes
Having said that I do enjoy a lot of your posts - just prefer the insighful and positive ones to the negativity
Gav
If all isn't rosey in the garden Kloot I suggest you find a new gardener.
As usual I AM KLOOT is he's usual negative self. He believes the club belongs to him....because he has supported them for a while.......time to wake up and smell the coffee.....you don't own it and when it came up for sale....you didn't bid.
Football is a business, if you want it some other way....then start supporting an amateur football team. Spending all the profits on new players and wages is not how a business is ran. If the Glazers want to take out some of the profits and spend it on themselves or other parts of their business.....they have every right.....IT'S THEIR CLUB!
If you want Manchester United to be run like Man City and make a £196 million loss in one season....go for it.....after all they destroyed us in the league and won it by miles......as did big spending Chelsea!!
Once you get over the football envy thing.....it's amazing how you see football again. Your football envy and jealousy is causing your negativty......Support your team and get behind them.....or find another team to support.....there's one just across the city that might suit you better!
Also KLOOT of course he is going to back the Glazers i think you forget they are his bosses so hes not going to bad mouth them and it only shows he believes in them and to be honest in the report everything he said was true
George
RFT you mug everyone off all the time, so you should expect to be shot down! Even if we had billions to spend freely, why be held to ransom, or pay extortionate prices? People in England have it all wrong!
Whistler.
Red Man
I know they are but at least we are signalling intent of spending money and just because we bid it doesnt mean they have to sell to us or take what we offer... People seem to think just because Man United are in for a player he has to join us .
George
Gav You have been courteous to me so I will do the same for you and explain that it just sounds like last summer where he makes statements similar to "There is no value in the market" and then immediately tells the world that he supports the Glazers as do most of the fans. Thus making people feel they should back these leeches because Sir Alex tells them it is the right thing to do. I just want people to open their eyes and see past a couple of shiny trophies and look at the big picture of what is happening at our beloved club. It is not good. I AM KLOOT
RFT has as much as a right to his opinion as anyone on this page. At this moment in time we haven't signed RVP or Moura, so until we do RFT is not wrong. This is a big summer for us and we need to sign quality.
Sydney!
Hey KLOOT,
According to Sky.....Fergie says your not a real fan......and Fergie knows best!
George
Say you were buying your wife's birthday present on eBay, you bid but someone outbids you on every item, will she be happy or will you just say well I bid on all these items for you?
It is time for Utd to buy the players we need or see City and even Chelsea disappear into the distance and don't mention the Chsmpions league which SAF has already said and realised is out of reach
Red Man
I agree Kloot, its like groundhog day every season now, lets hope yourself and others who have doubts (like me) are wrong, but I don't think we are...
HERBIE
Red Man
But you can not keep bidding on players to beat other teams if the value is ridiculous.... Hazard will cost Chelsea more than £80million pound over 5 years is that money worth it? imo Fergies whole value point is valid in this day and age but it is also an outdated way of thinking so imo its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other . Modern managers are willing to splash the cash willy nilly where as Fergie who is still stuck in his ways will not spend it without being sure and even if it comes down to a couple of million it shouldnt matter we should get behind the boss and support our team whether we are 18th or 1st. The whole point to my view was at least we are in there and trying just because we bid doesnt mean the player wants to come here or anything like that along with extra fees
George
Sitting on the fence, KLOOT is being aggressive BUT until the summer has passed and a massive signing HAS been made, how can you disagree with him. George, there is still NO GENUINE evidence we have bid for Moura at all. His club talking about bids could be just trying to start up an auction or interest in the club for sponsorship, there has been nothing official from Utd and all the talk seems to be from Brazilian media that we dont know how genuine they are AND the Daily Mail and Mirror who have probably been the two WORST newspaper gossips this summer. I have seen very little apart from repeating stories from the bigger media. The summer is following a similar tack we show interest in a big signing, he goes to another club, we sign a bargain quality player for a decent price, we then get linked with a whole host of big players, Fergie backs the Glazers and no more signings are made. Just swap Hazard for Benzema, Nasri or Sanchez, Kagawa for Valencia or Jones, Modric and Moura for Sneider, Pastore etc etc etc. I still hold up hope there is a big signing this summer as Fergie hasnt yet said "No more signings" but the fact so far its following a familiar pattern to the last 3/4 years and that Ferguson has said the money paid out for Hazard was ridiculous doesnt fill me with and confidence of anything major happening to be honest
Invisible STuey
Fair play KLOOT I do get where you're coming from but I guess I'm more of an optimist. I said months ago that our transfer activity this summer will help shape how I feel about the way the club is being run and I stand by that. We need quality in midfield and at LB but I do believe there are funds available. I guess we just need to be patient and see how the summer pans out. If we bring in 2 more first team players (regardless of position) I will be relatively satisfied as I have faith in the manager's choices
Gav
Invisible Stuey Even if we havent bid for Moura which i believe we have then we have bid for RVP and bought Kagawa who is a top player. i dont get the whole hate for united every transfer window as we dont spend 40million on one player every time. I think it is good to not bend over for agents etc it proves we have a back bone
If Hazard's fee was £34m then you have consider VAT on top of that of £6.8m, agent fees of £6m. Then signing on fee and wages. This amount of cash for a 21 year old could only be sanctioned by a sugar daddy. RM, Barcelona, United, Bayern, Juve, Inter, AC etc would never have sanctioned this sort of cash for a 21 year old who has not been tested at the highest level. Chelsea winning the UCL messed things up for us, just like I predicted it would.
Sydney!
22 Jul 2012 07:37:01
Rafael da Silva has told the press that he has encouraged and told Lucas Moura to join him at Man Utd. He also said that he has been doing brief english lessons with him learning the basics. Add fuel to the burning fire
fearny
Now was that from your source or is it what you are hearing or maybe was it tge hairdresser or your uncle franks missus or some ragtop i just never know.
mick the red fireman
22 Jul 2012 02:59:37
The Lucas moura rumours are getting stronger each day! We need this guy he is incredible, so fast skilful and one of the most powerful shots I've ever seen, me and my Grandad who saw George best every week said moura is not the next Ronaldo, he is the next George Best (r.i.p).
Caolán.
Orrrr maybe he is the next Lucas Moura.
Cban
22 Jul 2012 06:52:20
I know saf is doing all he can 2 get lucas moura, bt he should try and get something at cm position, ugosea
I'll be sure to let him know. Thanks, could have been really embarrassing if Sir Alex, the greatest living manager, had got that one wrong.
DodgyBanter
22 Jul 2012 04:11:54
i told you RVP, a greedy traiter,he would of demanded 195k if arsenal accepted are bid!!! who does he think he is
Who is this directed at? I'm not sure RVP visits this website
Gav
22 Jul 2012 01:15:45
This moura business is gettin out of hand, really dont know why fergie hasnt snapped him up yet.. get it done already!
Perhaps because we're making offers and they're being refused? It's hard for SAF even to force them into accepting
Gav
22 Jul 2012 00:37:55
We have emerged as favourites to sign RVP, personally i'm not so sure, I know SAF is a long time admirer, but I believe the only deal that will be done for us this summer from now will be Lucas Moura providing they accept, if not then we will go elsewhere to look for young talent.
Jake F
22 Jul 2012 00:22:16
Evening all,
We need to steer clear of RVP, he just wouldn't fit in and to be honest £20mil+ is a lot to be throwing around on a player who has, lets face it, had the best season he's ever gonna have! I don't think we need a striker at all, its all about the midfield.
SAF needs to spend on this problem area, Ando, Cleverly and Carrick aren't going to win you Champions Leagues or Leagues for that matter; Kagawa was a good buy bit of silk not to mention the extended revenue stream in the far east, now for a bit of grit and steel, M'Vila was and always has been my first choice but that seems to have died a death, I gather from his lack of football Stootman is not all he's cracked up to be, so Sahin, Khedira maybe a little flutter on Essien...? throwing it out there.
Left back is fine Evra has still got it, if Baines we 5yrs younger I'd say yes, but at 27 he'll need replacing in a season or so.
Now to address the elephant in the corner, Lucas Moura.... he is a sensation there's little questioning that, but just like many latino acquisitions he'll only want to up and leave after a season or so and join Real which is fine if you're going to get £80mil+ on him, but he isn't proven and that is a worry! And before you hark on about Ronaldo, Ronaldo didn't cost £35mil!
Midfield, midfield, midfield!
Congrats you managed to talk utter twaddle in that post
Essien had his chance plus too many bad injuries
Baines at 27 has years left not 1
Pardoe
Evra's still got it and RVP hasn't? You don't think we should be throwing money around yet you fancy a "flutter" on Essien?
Did you even watch a game of football last season? Sounds like you havn't a clue what you're talking about as you've contradicted yourself all the way through. Silly post to say the least
Flimbo
So what do you suggest? Basically saying everything we want to do is wrong.
GDS