Manchester United Banter Archive November 22 2012

22 Nov 2012 20:44:27
Good evening Guys

I know our form has stuttered recently and some of Fergie's team selections have been questioned but without a shadow of a doubt Fergie is the best manager we have ever had or ever likely to have and the fact that a number of people have the audacity to run this great man down astounds me.
People seem to forget that this man has brought us unprecedented success and turned us into one of the best teams in Europe.
Everybody is guessing as to who his successor will be but I think its only when he is gone that will realise just how brilliant this man is.I bet our next manager doesn't last anywhere near 26 years.I know people will jump down my throat and tell me I'm wrong but on this occasion I don't care Fergie gets my vote anyday.I bet Chelsea fans wish they had someone like Fergie at the helm and not the fat Spanish waiter.So stop bitching about this and that and get behind the team.

Bazza The Red

Nobody forgets his track record or what he has achieved but to take your argument to its conclusion, we should just sit here until he gets fed up. 2 words...Brian Clough. Ok, Cloughy had other issues but surely as you enter your 70's there comes a time when your judgement starts to slip. Is that time now? Who knows, but surely people can discuss it. I agree some have been disrespectful but I don't think the subject should be off limits.

AJH

Actually Ferguson has been a very good manager and we should be grateful for the way he has ensured we dominated our domestic league. However in twenty years where for many of them we were totally dominant in England he has only won two Champions Leagues. It leaves a shortfall on his CV when he could have really knocked Liverpool completely off their perch. The statement he is the best we will ever have is impossible to justify. Mourinho could arrive and win 3 Champions Leagues so such statements are likely to be inaccurate, after all Busby was irreplaceable.
Ferguson has done so much and yet fallen short in Europe, something I cant see him putting right this season because no matter what he says that midfield won't win it this year.

Red Man

I've always felt that its team spirit and grit that wins you the league and tactically nous that wins you the champions league, this in my eyes is why Sir Alex has always fallen just short in europe.

Shappy

Nobody is forgotten what he has done for the club but that kind of thinking will get you in trouble. These team selections and tactics have been questionable and that is putting it mildly. When a player can no longer produce he is shown the door and the same should go for the manager

Sir Alex has a long way to go before he casts a shadow as large as Sir Matt......I AM KLOOT

Kloot.. SAF has passed Sir Matt if you knew anything about united as you claim. You would know that him and his "gang" were taking a lot of money out of united and left it in a bad way. I'm not saying he wasn't a great manager but he was a great business man. Just dont jump on the sir matt is amazing bandwagon without during your research. I could dig up some on files and read up on it and get more facts if you want? Sir Matt is 9/10 SAF 10/10

Adam

I think SAF overtook Sir Matt years ago. But both tremendous managers.

Sydney!

22 Nov 2012 20:04:29
Ok then, (apologies on the length lol)
Thought id give an assessment where I think our team is now.
In goal, this needs to be sorted out which I think it is being, due to the fact DDG seems to be being picked when fit now which can only be a gd thing as I believe Lindergarrd is not top draw.
Now on to the defense, hard one to judge this, as Vidic has been out for so long its hard to figure out which our best CB partnership is, if I had to choose for Saturday id go with smalling and rio.
Evra has impressed me this season, he really has bucked his ideas up and put in some stellar performances as has Rafael(who I think is fast turning into the best RB in the league) but it cant be ignored the amount of goals we keep conceding.
Midfield, ahhhh the big one, this I feel has been allowed to go stale especially the central department, Fergie has continually relied on Giggs and Scholes but I do think no one would of thought Giggs would dip so quickly as he has I know ppl have said numerous times on here before the season even started, it was not a gd idea to do that but I still think his performance level has dipped a lot more than any1 expected, prob even the boss, Scholes can still do a job for us I think, not week in week out but hes still one heck of a player to bring on when we are chasing a game and he gets room due to the other team allowing him space and time. One thing cant be ignored is fergies role in this, buy allowing the CM to get like this while continually to over look players like Anderson, Powell etc in regards to game time, does have me stumped, I rate carrick but he is wot u call a "luxury player" hes not a Keane or Scholes and never will be, but he does do job for us and id much rather keep him then lose him.
Now the wings is a strange 1 while valencia is the best natural winger in the world, he is very 1 dimensional and predictable, (which he seems to be now combating by not running and crossing at all lol), which seems to breaking our play down a lot recently, Nani is shot to bits confidence wise and should of been sold somehow in the summer, young is decent and versatile which is something we will need. Kagawa looks to be a very gd player but may need a midfield built around him.
Now onto the forwards, wow what really needs to be said about a strikeforce of Chicha,RVP,Rooney and wellbeck, it a strikeforce any team in the world would love boast of having, and I am glad we can.
So on the whole how would I grade our team?

GK-B+
DF-B+
MD-C+
FW-A*
Thanks for reading and feel free to comment,
Chris the REDman {Ed004's Note - I agree with most things you say, however, I would rate our Gk as A and soon to be A*, I rate De Gea highly and I don't think any team in the world has a better second keeper. I agree with the defence. However I feel we need a left back and depending on Vidic possibly a centre back. In midfield I think we need two central midfielders. Someone like Lars Bender and a play maker beside him although I have no idea what play maker I would like, I suppose the obvious options are Moutinho and Cabaye. Then the only other signing I would make would be Rodriguez. I think an attack of Rodriguez, Rooney, Kagawa and RVP would suit Kagawa as long as we have a good supporting player behind him and the others}

Would love to see this team next season.

Diamond

de gea
rafael smalling hummels baines
bender
strootman cleverley
kagawa
rooney RVP

I have to say this is looking likely and I'd quite like it:

___________De Gea
Rafael__Smalling__Hummels__Fabio
______Strootman__Cleverly
__Kagawa___Rooney___Rodriguez
____________RVP

Personally, I would rather have Wanyama - but Strootman has captained a Holland team so it can't be too bad.

Fresh! {Ed004's Note - I would rather have Bender from Leverkrussen who Ed 2 says is a possibility and then Baines left back. If there was anymore money available I would consider another centre midfielder but not sure who. Can't think of many Deep lying playmakers. Also swap Rodriguez for Kagawa}

So ed, as a list of incomings and outgoings, would you say this is what you want:

Ins: Baines, Hummels, Bender & Rodriguez + a deep lying playmaker?

Outs: Nani, Ferdinand & Evra?

Fresh! {Ed004's Note - Yes along with the likes of Scholes and Giggs leaving. Though I am not sure whether a midfielder would have to leave as we would have Bender, new deep lying play maker, Anderson, Cleverley, Carrick and fletcher.}

22 Nov 2012 16:21:48
Hey ed,
I aint been on for a few days but today I keep seeing ppl talking about manager changes and u seem to have put ur thoughts across, sorry to ask the a repetitive question but wot have u explained about it all? Cause ive heared absolutely nothing. Or if any1 else can answer that wud be greatly appreciated thanks in advance
Chris the REDman {Ed002's Note - Try searching on Guardiola.}

22 Nov 2012 15:59:38
the last thing tht i wld want 2 happen is that fergie coming up in jan and saying there is no value for money in winter transfer market and utd wnt be adding ny1... n stil we wil wait til deadline day hoping to sign a new player

sid_mumbai

22 Nov 2012 15:17:02
Who alongside me wishes to play Real Madrid in the knockout stage?
It will be an exciting match for sure :) :)

I've always been a believer in the idea that the better the team we are up against, the better we play. Even in the group stages I prefer playing the better teams as there is no risk of complacency and it helps build momentum for the season.

TK-Red

22 Nov 2012 17:55:44
really tk red, then what about barca finals and city matches last year and bilbao and all the other matches we have been crap. granted tho i think we used to step up in big games when we had the players to do so. this year tho i just cant see us getting any further in europe and will probably drift away in the league....ino it sounds doom and gloom but thats how things have become at united despite still being second in league for now

I think the Barca finals are slightly unfair as a)They were the season before last and 2009 and b)It was Barca we were playing. As for City last year we didn't play badly, we were just undone by a set piece. Look at this season so far though and our best performances have been against the better sides and by better performances I mean we have gotten the result and showed character. Let me put it another way; Against the better sides we are more likely to perform than against the smaller sides as we tend to take certain games against "lesser" teams for granted.

TK-Red

As for City last year we didn't play badly, we were just undone by a set piece

tk are you joking they put 6 on us at home and the game when we only got undone by a set piece we were out played for 90 mins and never had a shot on goal

Oh good grief. If you are going to pick out individual games to suit your argument then we may aswell give up now. The game at the Etihad was hardly a chance filled game. You say City out played us for 90 minutes, how many clear cut chances did they have? Not very many. We more than held our own in that game and we were hardly outplayed. Every team has bad days but on the whole our record against the big teams in recent years hasn't been bad at all. Look at the bigger picture.

TK-Red

TK the sooner you accept that have gone backwards the last 3 years the easier it will be to lower your expectations. Which top team do you know off that talks a 37 year old out of retirement to fix their midfield. It is more MLS league stuff than European championship stuff.


Shahram

'Shahram'

I don't have a clue what you're talking about mate. You're having a completely different conversation. Nobody is talking about how good we are compared to a few years ago. I'm saying that I prefer tougher draws in the CL as it brings out the best in us and forces us to make sure we aren't complacent.

TK-Red

TK i hope we get lucky and get an easier draw to be frank. Getting knocked out by Madrid in round of 16th is not good for us all around. The financial rewards are quite a bit the deeper go and will impact our spending ability in the transfer market. Celtic or Benfica would be the best we could hope for.

Finally, i don't believe anyone takes anything for granted and it is not a case of big team/big performance and smaller team/poor performance.

Shahram

22 Nov 2012 13:48:16
26 years as manager is almost beyond belief! What he has won and achieved is truly remarkable he will go down in history as the greatest manager of all time for me! what he's had to compete with in the last few years especially with the amount of money thats being pumped into clubs!

I just think we need some fresh ideas in my opinion and I think its time for a change! I don't have any great confidence in us winning anything and thats horrible to say but sadly true whereas in past years you'd not only be confident but expect us to beat anyone we play! I don't like our style of football yes we score goals it would be hard not to with those strikers but for the majority of the game the creativity and flare isnt there anymore it doesn't seem like they have any drive through the team and I'm sorry but rio, scholes and giggs need to go! I apologise for my rant and I welcome criticism!

My question is this.. who do people think we should bring in and when?

Thanks,
Jamal

I would say that a central midfielder in January, one of Strootman, Wanyama or Fellaini. Then hopefully someone to replace Nani in January - Rodriguez? I would then say Hummels to replace Ferdinand in the summer and I want Fabio to be given a crack at being our left back.

Fresh!

I totally agree with you mate.I think if we sign a class cm in january and kagawa also returns from injury we will be more solid and dominant and play by far better football.I dont think we need to sign a cb,vidic is still a great option and when he returns,we will be more solid at the back as well.

Oh god Fresh I should've been a bit clearer ehm I was actually talking about a manager :O

I do agree with everyone you said apart from fellaini tho!

Jamal

Manager, I would go for Pep or Jose short-term with Keane or Neville as the number two. Long-term perhaps Neville, Keane, Ole, Giggs, Scholes, who knows.

Players, Baines, Strootman, Ince (free) Rodriguez & Lewandowski and Hummels if Vidic or Rio leaves. This would mean a big spend, but it would complete our transition.

Sydney!

Would love to see Mourinho as the next boss, really would. I think he'd bring back the flair, and dare I say it, the arrogance the club has been lacking over the past few seasons. However I don't know how well he'd get on with the Glazers and whether he'd even want the job. For me I think the perfect fit is Jurgen Klopp, what he's done at Dortmund has been amazing. While they have bought players, they haven't gotten the cash injections that the likes of Chelsea, City or Madrid get each season. Yet he's managed to create a really good group of players who have attracted interest from the top clubs in Europe. Honestly think he could do a great job at the club.
In terms of players I'd like to see one of Sandro or Moutinho to fill the CM gap, one of Hummels or Ogbonna to sort out the CB issue and Isco for options down the wings. Also would like to see Buttner given a go on the wing.
What I don't want to see is players like Ince, Zaha or Wanyama brought in and if David Moyes is even given a job collecting the bins at OT i'll be disappointed...

Andy!

Apologies Jamal. I would say that SAF will retire in 2014. Pep's agent has said that he may extend his sabbatical - I feel the extension of this depends on SAF's decision at the end of the season. He is target number one in my eyes.

Fresh! {Ed002's Note - From what was said yesterday Guardiola will be taking this season off only.}

Well Sydney with the current age profile you seem to have at the club I think Paul Ince would fit right in

Puzzled

Pep will go to City - look at their recent backroom appointments - all in preparation (and bait)

Puzzled

Oh come on Sydney! you jester - surely not Keane.

The only one on your list who (at the moment) is any where close to being right is Ole.

Mike

Mike, in 5-6 year's time any of the above could be ready. Neville could probably manage QPR tomorrow if he offered his services. I do think in the short term we will bring in a Jose or a Pep, but long term it will be someone from this club I'm sure.

Sydney!

Sydney i agree with Mike, you are having a laugh saying Roy Keane.
His track record says everything, the amount of money he spent at Sunderland and the caliber of player he was bringing in was a joke.
The only person Roy Keane cares about is Roy Keane, i find the guy really irittating and arrogant and some of the things he says when he pundits for ITV are laughable, but he was undoubtedly a fantstic footballer.

Simmo

Simmo, I meant as a number two initially mate. He wouldn't take any sh1t from the players. It will never happen due to SAF, but that would be my choice. Pep or Jose with Keane or Neville as the number two.

Sydney!

Robson , bruce , keane, hughes were all not good enough to manage united or any top European team .
so to say any of the likes of giggs scholes etc could be good enough when they havent even been a manager seems a bit wishful thinking to me.
jred

Syd

He bullies his players, why would you want to play under that?

Simmo

22 Nov 2012 12:21:49
What if roberto mancini gets sackd at d end of d seasn if he dsnt win premier league n thn city get mourinho, we get pep and chelsea go 4 mancini... Wow fantasy football manager ryt
Sid_mumbai.  {Ed002's Note - There will be changes at the end of this season you can be sure of that.}

Hey Ed, thanks for your constant input.
Are you referring to Chelsea & City, the premier League or specifically United when you talk about managerial changes coming up?

Thanks

Jonny8 {Ed002's Note - Next summer will see a number of significant changes across Europe.}

Hey Ed, thanks for your constant input.
Are you referring to Chelsea & City, the premier League or specifically United when you talk about managerial changes coming up?

Thanks

Jonny8 {Ed002's Note - There will, I suspect be significant managerial changes at a number of "leading" European sides next summer.}

Thanks 02, especially for answering twice!
:D

that's true, there seems to be a need for a new manager at a couple of major teams, which then ricochets to other teams.

Bayern are probably looking for a new manager, while I can't see Heynckes taking over another team, maybe his beloved Mönchengladbach ;-).
The big italian three seem to be not really happy with their managers for different reasons, Jose seems to be on the move, Chelsea obviously need a new manager, unless they want to sign Benitez just to fire him a couple of games into the new season, like before.
City seem to be isolating Mancini and you never know about SAF (do you have any solid info?)

The only on the fence looking in right now is Pep, so there will be some rotation needed.

Jonny8

22 Nov 2012 11:28:39
Ed who would u like 2 be our nxt manager. Pep who wil comparitively give youth more chances wil gva new dimension 2 our play but is less experienced and been criticized for adopting 1 style of play or mourinho who has vast experience but wil need big money signings,youth may get less chance and carry has own attitude whch some utd hierarchy may not like

Sid_mumbai {Ed002's Note - I have no personal opinion on the matter but I did explain yesterday where the interest rests still.}

22 Nov 2012 10:16:24
who would guys like to see join united:isco or rodriguez.I would choose isco as he is cheaper and would add spanish touch to the team.Rodriguez is also good but he will cost alot.

Either. Both are better than Zaha.

Fresh!

Either 1 as long as it a choice between them and we dont end up with ince or zaha!
CardiffRED

Rodriguez is a far better prospect. He could become the 'messi' of his sort of age group along with Hazard.

22 Nov 2012 08:48:43
If as the sun are saying today that RDM would be sacked if he dropped Torres ,then dropping him knowing he would be sacked...Good for him to stick to his principles a fine pair of large brass ones

Pardoe

22 Nov 2012 08:30:13
Bring Cristiano Ronaldo home!

ALDUtd

Is England his home?

Puzzled

22 Nov 2012 06:27:53
Paul pogba has already made his champions league debut with juventus but his utd teamates are stil waitng for there debut. Whats ur thoughts on tht.....

Sid_mumbai

Im getting sick of hearing about pogba,hes gone,nothing we can do about it so try and move on,players come and go but we always remain successful, i appeciate hes going to be a good player and we might of missed a trick but hes not ours anymore so id rather look to the other great prospects we have at the club and watch them progress.

phil

Man Utd already qualified for next round before playing its previous match while Juventus is yet to qualify.
Whats ur thoughts on tht.....

Paul Pogba played 3 minutes When they were up 3-0. As far as I am concerned they could have put the his girlfriend on the pitch because it is a meaningless appearance and people here are making way too much of this guy.

Whilst everyone believe s he will be great in the future but there are no guarantees in football. At the moment he is not a meaningful part of that midfield.

Shahram

He has had League starts than Hernandez has had for us..so is he not a meaningful part of our squad ?

Dont spout rubbish Shahram !

Devil Dust.

Iam not talkng abt pogba iam jst saying ki we cld hv gvn keane a chance in cb position instead of carrick being thr. Just iamgine wat wotton would be thnkng carrick is prefered above him. U cant deny tht pogba has plyd in serie A for juventus and some of our youngstr are stil waiting for there chance. I jst want out young players 2 get more chance and pogba is jst an exmpl and thts my thght abt it ...
Sid_mumbai

Pogba is playing because he is ready, he would have been playing for us this season had he signed too. Tunnicliffe, Keane etc are not ready.

Sydney!

Sid, Keane is on loan at Leicester.

Sydney!

N bcs we hv qualified for nxt round thts why i wantd more youngsters 2 get thr chance i knw our team was young and it was a hostile enviornment but we plyd anderson cleverly flecter in midfield and i hv seen many post whr dey want al dis player 2 strt for us in premier league so i wont cal it a very young team for me buttner and powel were d 1s who had less experience. I just want tht plyrs like petruci and vermaji shld get thr chance now bcs dey wont get mch chances as season progreses....

Sid_mumbai

Devil Dust, not spouting rubbish. I have watched 4 or 5 Juve games and he has never been in the starting line up.

They bring him on usually when they are up and in the last 20 minutes. I am assuming you checked his stats and hence the statement.

I don't get any of the reserve or youth games here and all the talk here got me to actually watch him when he plays. I Prefer Wanyama as his passing is poor and yes he is a physical specimen but not great either positioning or passing. I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Shahram

Sydney

I am also sure he would have played for us this season had he stayed, however our midfield is so average that a lot of guys out there would get game time if they were in our squad.

Shahram

Meant prefer Wanyama to Pogba, better passer and more aware of where he needs to be on the pitch.

Shahram

Syd

I dont believe for one minute if he was still with us that he would be playing.
Fergie would still be picking Carrick to play that position ahead of him.

Devil Dust.

Pogba's started 4 or 5 games for juventus and hes played a couple of times in the champions league he's scored a goal or 2 aswell! I don't really follow italian football but I always check the line up when they're playing I'm curious to see how much game time he's getting and to be fair he has played alot more than I thought he would and he's doing well! fair play to him he wanted something and he went and got it you couldn't blame the lad when you seen some of the lineups last year {Ed002's Note - It was not simply a matter of game time that he left. He was provided advice that his long term future would be better with a move to Juventus now.}

Do you think he would've played as much for united tho? What do you think of him personally ed? {Ed002's Note - He would have had his chances and I am by no means convinced the two folks advising him led him in the right direction. As for my thoughts on him I have no particular opinion but he clearly is someone much is expected of - Chelsea trying to buy him last January.}

DD, you are wrong. The manager maintained that this season was Pogba's season. The player would have known that too, but was advised to move to Juventus. Pogba is ready and he would have been partnering Carrick in midfield and we would have seen Cleverley and Pogba being played together in the UCL.

People need to stop their whining about the Pogba situation. Like Ed002 has said playing time had no baring on his decision to leave.

Sydney!

The manager said the same last season Syd..so just who is wrong ??

Devil Dust.

The manager always maintained 2012/13 will be the year Pogba is given a crack in the senior side. Last season he was forced into playing him ahead of schedule to try and keep him. But when he knew he was fighting a losing battle he left him out of the team.

Sydney!

Syd

The reason why Pogba left was because even when the side was completely depleted he still picked Giggs and Scholes in the centre ahead of him.
I would be pi**ed off as well, what hope have you got if Gigg's gets in ahead of you.

Simmo {Ed002's Note - No. The reason Pogba left was because of bad advice given to him by two people.}

Mino Raiola & Eric Cantona?

Sydney!

I thought the two names were raiola and vieria? Maybe I'm wrong.

Jono