Manchester United Banter Archive February 23 2013

23 Feb 2013 19:35:05
Still trying to get over the shock of seeing Nani tracking back and defending!

Another decent game from him - nothing spectacular, but nothing really wild and wayward either. When he doesn't try too hard to be Ronaldo, I think he plays much better - a real solid, tidy performance, and certainly one that will have done his cause no harm at all.

Great to see Giggsy having another good game. I got sick of saying that the guy would still have a role to play for us this season, in the face of some terrible abuse aimed at him on this site. But I've never been more glad to be proved right about something, and those of you who came out with all the mindless, odious knee-jerk abuse against him earlier in the season, should be ashamed of yourselves. The poster who said he didn't want to watch Utd playing with Giggs in the team.

A good all-round performance today against a team that are scrapping for survival - the sort of games we've tripped up on in the past. The win never looked in doubt at any time, and was ultimately a lot more comfortable than I thought it would be.

Stevie, I agree, I thought this was a potential banana skin. Long trip to London, tight pitch, poor surface, brutish QPR players constantly fouling. I am not surprised we won in the slightest, but I thought it could be a draw today, glad I was wrong.

Anyway I am off to bed now, got a bad headache and trying to stay of the painkillers (that's a Joke officer ;)) Come on Chelsea, a win or draw will do nicely.

Sydney!

Let's face it Syd, we're going to be seeing every game from now until the end, as a potential banana skin :)

Take it you mean stands are tight to the pitch? All pitches are the same dimensions now in EPL.

QPR are capable of having a phenomenal game against anyone, but this united team is just so consistent. Rooney wasn't fully fit (if you believe press). RVP goes off injured. But we've still got Hernandez, Welbeck, Young, Nani, Giggs, part game from Rooney. These are match winning players. They don't all play to their maximum every game, but one if them keeps stepping up.

So many options, warms your heart :)

Dodgy, no mate I mean pitch size. There is a minimum guideline for pitches this season, but pitches are still different sizes.

For example Loftus Rd pitch is 112 x 72 while OT is 116 x 76.

Sydney!

Syd! all pitches are 105 x 68 this season. It's all in the PL rule book.

TK-Red

Sure eds (was it Ed002?) were saying that from this season onwards the pitches were now all exactly the same dimensions, presumably to stop teams like Stoke narrowing pitches to gain advantage? {Ed002's Note - As of this season's Premier League rules pitches are required to be a standard size for EPL games where possible. Some grounds cannot meet the regulations for reasons of logistics.}

Ahhh, thanks Ed, that clears it up

23 Feb 2013 18:20:19
68 points from 27 games is a Premier League record, eclipsing Chelsea's 67 in 05/06.

Not bad for being our "worst team yet".

MPez

It is odd. I think we have had better teams but this one just keeps rolling on

Despite the fact the QPR are last they are a strong, talented team. The team performed very good today especially with No Rooney and RVP for most of the game.

The future for the club continues to be very bright.

But but but the EPL has got weaker MPez, LOL.

I agree mate, fans have underestimated this squad and they should be holding their heads in shame. I have been saying for a while that this is our best eve squad.

Sydney!

15 points clear and its only February, city and Chelsea knocked out at the group stages of the CL the worse arsenal team in years
United are doing well but the standard has dropped for me

Jred, standard dropped from when? 2007? 2008? 2009? 2010?

Sydney!

QPR must be the best bottom club at this stage of a season though. The bottom half of the table has caught up with the top half IMO.

Our squad is under rated by our own and opposing fans.

Dodgy, my point exactly mate. Apart from a few EPL clubs the rest have got much much stronger and tougher to beat. Has Spurs or City ever been stronger? Chelsea aren't as strong, but they are still no mugs. Arsenal have become weaker, yet they never caused many problems since 2003, not for us anyway. Liverpool are weaker.

This is a stronger EPL than it was in 2008, 2009, 2010. Difference is we have gotten stronger too, whilst Chelsea and Arsenal have fell behind.

Sydney!

Come on Syd, no way is this the strongest Uited side for a while. Great effort and everything but I'd go as far as to say it is the least talented side we have had that has won the league. I'm not trying to do them down but stop trying to make out this is a strong league - it isn't

AJH {Ed004's Note - I reckon it is a very strong squad but we are missing a few quality players to bring it to the next level. I don't think our wingers are currently up to it and we need to strengthen midfield and possibly left back other than that we are in very good shape.}

2007/2008 season United and Chelsea were the 2 best teams in Europe for me Liverpool arsenal were also decent teams we had 3 teams in the semis of the cl and only 4 points separated the top 3 teams
2008/2009 barcelona were the top team in Europe but United Chelsea and arsenal were top sides in fact all 3 made the semi finals of the cl the second time in a row
Liverpool also done well and a United team of ronaldo and co won the league by only 4 points with 3rd placed only 7 points behind.
2009/2010 Chelsea and a Rooney inspired United were top teams

But after that for me United Chelsea arsenal the best 3 teams in England went into transition, United are coming out of it first but I don't think this team is as good as teams in the past yet.

Last year was a poor standard for me and this year hasn't been much better, this isn't a great United team for me but we lost the title on goal difference last year and could win it by March this year, I think that says a lot about the standard of our league over the past year and a half

AJH - maybe not the strongest team, but certainly as strong a squad as I can remember in a long time.

Stevie, I agree, I made that point on another post. Doesn't chnage the fact that it's not a strong league this year.

AJH

23 Feb 2013 23:18:45
The legaue has moved on since then jred, the league is stronger today. You conveniently forgot to mention rubbishty and the spuds. {Ed004's Note - I think the league is a lot more balanced now. There isn't as big a gap between the top teams and the lower league teams anymore}

Noname
What do you mean the league has moved on
3 English teams in the semis of the CL 2 years running, 2 English clubs in the final
I've conveniently forgot about spurs and city, why what have they done, spurs are a nearly team and are city a great team? Not for me
The United team of Ronald Rooney tevez hargreaves a younger vidic giggs Ferdinand scholes evra only won the league by 4 points this team could win it by 20

If the standard hasn't dropped tell which other club in the league apart from United would you class as a top team

Jred why does the fact that we had teams in the semi finals for 2 years mean that the standard of the EPL has now dropped? Have you ever considered the idea that just maybe the standard in Europe for those years had dropped? let's be honest, our toughest test in 2008 was Barcelona and that team was not as good as the one we encountered in the 2009 or 2011 final. Plus look at the route the other English teams took in through the knockout stages, you can't say they were top class teams at the time. Villarreal, Fenerbahce, Olympiakos, Inter Milan (pre Mourinho) and AC Milan who were at the end of their cycle aswell as the fact that the other English teams faced each other a few times so there was always likely to be us and atleast one other English side in the semi finals. Since then, the rest of Europe has raised its standard hence the CL has become much more competitive.

TK-Red

Tk
That's only one part of the argument
How good do you you think this United team is, do you think it's the best premiership team ever because at this stage it has the most points ever in premier league history.
Honestly how many times have we had to play great to win this year?
What other teams in the league would you say are playing great?

To be honest I think your mistaking a competitive league with a high standard league.
Let's be honest we are 15 points clear and rarely got out of second gear so it's not been very competitive for us ( so far)
For me it's competitive because there are so many average teams at a similar level.

Take United out of the EPL this year and what are you left with, for me average or under performing teams

24 Feb 2013 09:19:12
Who cares about the rest of Europe? They have got much better since 08/09. The PL is stronger now than its eva been. The rest of Europe isn't relevant as they have got better too. 004 is correct, TK is bang on.

The EPL and other European teams have gotten stronger. Some teams have regressed or stood still, but most have gotten stronger.

AJH, I will stick to what I have said all along, that this is the strongest squad we have ever had. But it's not the strongest first XI.

Sydney!

Take United out of the equation and what we are left with is a strong EPL with teams capable of taking points off of each other. You are massively underrating this United team Jred.

Sydney!

TBF many of the above points are valid, I think a mix of these factors is the case.

Many of the top EPL teams have dropped a level in recent years e. g. Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool so there is less competition at the top - and this has been reflected in less CL success for our teams (Chelsea's win aside).

But also the rest of the league has become more competetive. Teams at the bottom like QPR & Southampton are spending big money and other's like Swansea, West Brom, Stoke etc. have learnt how to survive and flourish - so anyone can beat anyone in the EPL these days. There is less of a gap between the top 4 and the bottom 3 than ever.

Things change quickly in football - the EPL could easily become a bigger force in Europe again and more competetive at the top if United, City and Chlesea pull their finger's out. They all have the resources. Then you have teams like Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool who if they invest well and make the right decisions could be competetive again. As ever, some will succeed at getting to the next level whilst other's will fail, that's what makes it fun!

In Europe we're seeing more success for German teams as their league seems to be strengthening, whilst both the big Spanish teams face a fight to get into the Quarter Finals. It will be interesting to see how the the power struggle between the big 3 leagues pans out in the next few years. Perhaps the big new TV deal will help tip the balance in the favour of the EPL over La Liga where they are struggling financially?

Syd
I would have to disagree take United out and what you have is a epl with teams capable of beating each each other, but strong no.
City and Chelsea would be top ask there fans if they think they have a strong team team.

The bottom teams may of improved from recent years but the top teams the teams that set the standard for me have all gone backwards imo.
With the exception of United

United are an improving team but I'm not sure it is better than the the team of ronaldo and co yet.
The team of ronaldo and co won the league by 4 points there were only 7 points between the top 3 teams
At present we are 15 points clear of second 19 clear of 3

'Jred'

I did write out a fairly long response then my internet died whilst I was sending it so here's the short version.

You said the standard of the PL has dropped but it has infact risen. We may not be a better team than 5 years ago but the rest of the league has closed the gap in terms of quality. The 15 point gap is there because although this isn't the best United team in the PL, I would say it is the most consistent.

TK-Red

Honey sums it up very well

Jred, do you seriously want me to ask a City fan if his team today is better than it was in 2008? I think any City fan would agree they are stronger now than they ever were. Spurs are stronger than they ever were. I genuinely believe the league as a whole is stronger than it was five years ago. Teams are much harder to beat these days, I just think United are clinical and the experience we have know how to get a result.

Sydney!

Tk
I'm not sure how you can say the rest of the league has closed the gap when we are 15 clear with a record number of points

Go back 3 or 4 years and the best 3 teams in England would only be separated by a few points they would also be 3 of the best teams in Europe.
Now you could argue that teams in Germany and Spain have improved but have the teams in England, for me the standard has been raised and most of the top teams in Europe have passed the top teams in England.
For me in football if your not improving your getting overtaken and going backwards.
The EPL use to set the standard in Europe I no longer think that is the case
Still the best league to watch imo but no longer the bench Mark it was imo

Syd
I said ask city fans if they think they have a strong team, my dad's a city fan half the family is and they will all admit there not up with the best teams in Europe
In 2008 United and Chelsea were not only the best in England but also Europe arsenal and even Liverpool were right up there.
For me in 2008 the epl set the standard in Europe probably the world but that's not the case now imo
like I have said before football is always evolving and if your not going forward you are going backwards imo
The EPL use to be the best in the world but I don't think it is any more although I still think it's the best to watch

I think AJH and Redman also make very good points as well on the subject further up the page

We are talking about the EPL getting stronger. City are stronger than they were in 2008.

Sydney!

'Jred'

It was all there in the post. We haven't been 12-15 points better than everyone else, we have merely been much more consistent. The quality of the bottom of the PL is much closer to the top than it was and that is down to them improving, not us getting worse. We are clear at the top because of the determination within the squad to go and win tough games.

TK-Red

'jred'

You say that the PL has dropped in standards, you use the fact we are 12 points clear as an example of why you think this and then you say the PL used to be the best league in the world but has now dropped in standard. Can I ask which league you rate as the best then?

Is it Spain where Barca are 15 points clear?

or it Germany where Bayern are 18 points clear?

TK-Red

We are talking about the EPL getting stronger. City are stronger than they were in 2008.
Sydney

Syd
city aren't the only team in the EPL, just to be clear I am talking about the standard of the EPL not city.
If you check my above post I don't think I have said city had a better team in 2008 than they do now

However in 2008 Chelsea were second in the league ( same as city now) I think at the time Chelsea were one of possibly even the second best team in Europe unlike city or any other team in the EPL this year

"City aren't the only team in the EPL"

Exactly, they are one team that has improved dramatically since 2008. Spurs are another. Most teams are stronger now bar Liverpool, Aston Villa, Arsenal & Chelsea. The rest of the teams have gotten stronger making the EPL more competitive. That being said many of the big clubs of Europe have improved too whereas their leagues have regressed. Most La Liga teams Like Villarreal, Deportivo, Sevilla etc etc have all dipped a lot making La Liga much less competitive than the EPL. The Bundesliga too has dipped bar Dortmund and Bayern. The EPL is still the most competitive league as the smaller clubs have gotten stronger.

Sydney!

Syd
Lol as I have said above the EPL is a competitive league beneath United but we are talking about the standard if the league not how competitive it is

Moving the goal posts again

23 Feb 2013 17:25:39
LOAN WATCH: Ryan Tunicliffe scored for Barnsley on his debut.


T-O-I

Wait, Looks like his goal has been taken off him (the goal has been given to to the Barnsley player O'Grady), shame.

23 Feb 2013 17:05:43
Good 3 points again today, even if it was against a team struggling 48 points behind us (at kick off). Thought Rafael had a great game and stunning strike to go with it. Also can't think of any other teams in the league who could field 4 strikers and 3 wingers over the space of 90 minutes who are all internationals and the team played the same throughout, bodes well for the run in if they are that much in sync.

Superdils

I thought this game had a draw written all over it. Very happy with the result, two winnable home games coming up in the league.

Sydney!

Me too sydney so have to revise my points total now to us winning the league by 10 points and a total of 24 out of 33 lol.

Missed the game but hope RVP is fit for Real.

Shahram

23 Feb 2013 16:45:28
Giggs good goal solid game!

rafael top goal top game!

nani is improving game by game, even tackled and tracked back today and some of his passing was marvellous!

As a team I felt we doddled it really, contolled the game and took our time and defended well when needed!

Hope van persie is ok

happy chappy!
big v

23 Feb 2013 16:38:46
That goal from Giggs so similar to the one against Wigan in 2008 that sealed the title!

Caol�n.

23 Feb 2013 16:18:40
Is it me or does everytime young gets the ball he goes backwards. the only thing he can do is hit the ball towards the box. very weak don't know why we bought hit for £16mil.

It is his second game back from a long lay off due to injury - Give him some time. Oh and the coaches tell the wingers to play possession football too anyway.

Young has been poor! sell him! he is just frustrating to watch!

23 feb 2013 15:30:14
what a strike from rafael. goal of the season right there.

23 Feb 2013 15:20:02
I have a sneaky feeling Rooney is on the bench for one reason and one reason only and that is if we are desperate for a goal as I don't think he is 100% at all.

23 Feb 2013 11:06:02
ok guys, another game today so let's get behind our red army and keep qpr at the bottom hope persie scores a hat trick glory. glory. manchester united. united. zee;)

23 Feb 2013 08:39:06
Can anyone suggest an easy to use site to watch the QPR match this afternoon please? Thanks,

Trawlerman. {Ed002's Note - Try thefirstrow.eu}

Www.wiziwig. tv

Ronaldo7 has a stack of links

23 Feb 2013 01:47:22
Guys I don't think everyone should be dogging Rooney out of it IMO he is the best team player we have at this moment in time sure he's not scoring goals like he used to but am I one of the few people that see we are not much without him he is an out and out worker he plays for the team!

Rooney needs to start delivering consistently and until he does he will always divide opinion. Nobody questions his commitment (apart from when he asked for a transfer) but his contribution can be patchy. He plays in bursts and looks brilliant but can then disappear, sadly often in big games. I just find him frustrating - he clearly has the talent but he has never reached the heights we thought he would. Perhaps my expectations are too high but when he burst onto the scene it looked like we had found a diamond. Whether it is off field distractions, weight challenges, injuries, or other issues, something has held him back from achieving his potential. If anyone was wafting £40M around, I would be tempted to take it.

Ajh
Is there anybody in the squad you wouldn't sell for 40 mill

Id sell Rooney in a heartbeat for £40 million. Just imagine Goetze, Kagawa, Rodriguez and RVP.

Jred, probably not to be honest. Do you think we have anyone worth that? Not sure I do right now.

No Name

Can we not buy Goetze/James Rodriguez without selling Wayne? Are we a sell to buy club?

And for someone you would want to sell in a "heartbeat", you really think someone will pay 40 million dollars?

Deeps.

No I don't think we have to be honest, we have a great squad and good competition for places and rvp is as good as anyone but one thing we maybe haven't got is " the next superstar" if you know what I mean, maybe that's why we were ready to spend 30 + on hazard or Lucas in the summer.
A lot think we might buy 3 or 4 players in the summer but for me we have a good squad I would be quite happy if we got 1 big signing someone who can give us a bit of magic in midfield maybe a wishere or bale type. Although them 2 are very unlikely.
May be kagawa can be that man next year

Jred, completely agree. The squad is deeper than '99 but the 1st team is possibly not as strong. I agree that a top line midfielder and possibly a left back would be all we need, assuming the wingers find some form or Zaha steps up a level.

Deeps - I think we would have to sell Rooney to play a more fluid style that would fit in them 4 together that I mentioned. rooney does not fit in to that style imo. His age and contract situation also come in to it. This summer is the best time to sell him to get as much as we can for him.

I have been saying for months that this is a strong squad, but it's not a strong enough first team. I got slated for saying that mind.

Sydney!

23 Feb 2013 00:09:58
anyone see silvestre's tweet lol.

he told viera to go back to arsenal and give them a hand, then posted a pic with an empty trophy cabinet saying "still unused since we move in"