Manchester United Banter Archive February 23 2015

 

Use our rumours form to send us manchester united transfer rumours.


23 Feb 2015 22:37:24
Any news on Pereiras contract? I hope he doesn't leave, could end up like Pogba!

Believable0 Unbelievable1

24 Feb 2015 01:11:27
I feel if Parreria was as good as what people think he would have been signed long term a while ago. Maybe he's not cutting it or the coaching staff don't rate him.

Agree4 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 22:25:30
Does anyone else think that we may only be a pacy striker away from significant improvement? Obviously there are glaring problems that need addressed (RB, CB, CM) but i think a quality striker that is mobile could improve several players around them and make us look much more attractive to watch. Even though people complain about our 'awful' defence I believe with our current strikers being a waste of kit that this area should be our priority in the summer.

Believable9 Unbelievable2

24 Feb 2015 01:15:27
Not even a pacey striker Ozzy just someone who will work their socks off and be determined to get involved.

I watch the guy Atletico signed in the summer, Mandzukic and he is a real work horse (and clinical infront of goal) but isn't pacey. But he always gets himself involved, linking up play and bringing others into the game.

Yes some pace would be heavenly up top but we just need someone who will give their all and use any attributes they have to the best of their ability.

Agree8 Disagree0

24 Feb 2015 08:30:41
I agree and I really rate Mandzukic. He's great in the air too so we could have done with him when Moyes was making each game a crossing drill.

Agree8 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 20:19:12
Everyone seems to be out in force against Angel Di Maria. let's just calm down a bit and see what has happened.

Di Maria's strengths :-
1. Pace.
2. Counter attacking.
3. Movement.
4. Taking on full backs and running at the opposition.

Weakness :-
1. Strength, can't play with back to goal.
2. End product isn't consistent at times.

He was not only one of the best players for Real Madrid but was excellent during the World Cup for Argentina too. You only need to watch him destroy Germany in the recent friendly to know how good he really is.

So what has happened to him at United?

1. Has had to adapt to a new league and country and that obviously takes time.

2. Has been played as a striker in a pointless 3-5-2 system where he has been completely wasted and been forced to play with his back to goal.

3. His strength on the counter attack and quick movement is nullified because there is simply nobody to support him. Rvp, Falcao are slow, Rooney has pace but lacks acceleration, he can support ADM but has been played in midfield instead and then the manager hasn't played the likes of Herrera and Januzaj enough in their favoured positions for them to provide the movement.

4. He has had an injury.

5. We move the ball far too slowly through midfield and go out wide far too early instead of passing it out wide when closer to the box.

Basically, players like Di Maria need players with similar strengths, style and vision to be effective and also need the manager to stick with a certain style of play and not disrupt their rhythm. Its been the complete opposite.

The "he doesn't want to be here" seems complete nonsense to me. He tries to take players on beat them, its not happening for him and he is obviously going to look a bit frustrated on the pitch sometimes. The manager telling a winger that he "dribbles too much" is hardly going to help.

Was he overpriced? Yes and we paid because we were desperate and needed to add pace to the side. But we simply haven't used him well and we need a couple more players with pace up front, out wide or in midfield to get the best out of him.

He is a proven quality player and will come good.

Believable2 Unbelievable3

{Ed007's Note - Must be a different Di Maria that I've been watching running around like headless chicken for the last few years.}

23 Feb 2015 23:10:13
All of your four "strengths" equate to one thing. He runs around a lot.
There is no doubting that on his day, Di Maria is a decent player. Be he is very inconsistent, and always has been. Was he really on of Madrid's best players? Or does his reputation as a "big name" with a big price tag precede him?
It is a little unfair to judge him too harshly yet, because it is his first season. He should be afforded that excuse like any other player.
Obviously, that doesn't go for the manager though.
I think, given the price tag, it is only natural for the fans to expect something special from a player costing 60 million quid.

Agree1 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 23:22:12
Spot on ED007. It's as if folk are trying to make excuses for him just because of his reputation. The amount of times he gives the ball away is completely amateur.

Agree6 Disagree4

{Ed007's Note - I always felt he was bought more as a marker of Utd flexing their financial muscle rather than for footballing reasons, it wasn't as if the money couldn't have been used better. I watch a lot of Madrid and he wasn't that hot there either, he had the odd good game but that was it.}

23 Feb 2015 17:31:32
Have to say reading today it make no sense to saxk the manager mid season if he fails to make top four he will be gone anyway do you realy want giggs in charge great player but done nothing to even warrant being assistant they do not look like half the time they speak to one anorher giggs should do what hasslebank is doing and learn from tje bottom as for this season we just hope he gets top four if not we look for some one else we have had bad times before and no dowt in the future but we will get it right we just have to be patient

Believable6 Unbelievable0

23 Feb 2015 17:49:15
It can't be much worse Daz. I do agree he needs more experience and shouldn't even be assistant, but what experience do a lot of assistant managers have? At least Giggs will not over complicate things and try to let the players play their natural game. I am assuming this of course.

You shouldn't keep an underperformer in their job just because his short term replacement hasn't managed before.

Agree1 Disagree6

23 Feb 2015 18:05:29
Unless the team goes into freefall over the next 5 games or so I can't see the manager being sacked.

The worst thing for me personally is that I don't feel confident about the next game. The Swansea result was the worst result possible on so many levels. It couldn't have come at worse time against a side who were there for the taking. Now we have the scousers breathing down our neck and a tough fixture list to come.

The manager and players need to raise the bar. They have to or it will be another season without CL football, which is the worst scenario possible.

Agree1 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 18:46:26
Beast we have been down that path before giving it to a assistant and it got us nowere we should wait untill the end of the season andif not in top four then go all out for a top manager I personaly do not agree with giggs being given it just because he is a club legend he could end up doing the same and the fans turn on him as well witch would be ashame after sutch a carrea as he has had it is like a lot of players we are being linked to paper talk I now 29 years and over van gaal would not of been my choice I hope he builds a good hungry team witch he has in the past but if you beleive the papers he wants dutch players past there prime

Agree1 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 19:00:21
Ment to say at tje start beast we go down that path of sacking managers every five minutes we are no better tha city or chelsea but I do agree if things do not improve then he has to go at the end of the season wemgot rid of moyes it made no differene we he could of gone at the end of the season

Agree0 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 19:28:47
One name that is never mentioned but if we need an interim manager what about Carlos Queiroz ??

Agree2 Disagree4

23 Feb 2015 19:58:02
Dazw
That will be the chelsea that are top of the league and the city that won it last year

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 20:35:34
Too many ifs guys and no one is asking for him to be sacked.

If we have a few more mares he club might feel an early decision will allow the club to salvage still a top 4 with the alternative of continuing with someone who is going to have us finish outside the top 4.

His financial settlement will be of no issue and from what i understand not large anyway when comparative to missing on Europe and FFP regulations and issues that come with it.

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 21:17:29
Jred how many did they go through before they got jose back they have got the right man if van gaal dosnt work out we need to find the right one that has van gaal keeps saying fits our phillosaphy spelling

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 21:24:17
I think with a new manager (even short term) it will galvanise the team and we will get CL football next season. If we stick with this one we run a very serious risk of not being in the CL - do we really want another season like this one with no Europe?

2 seasons out of CL will be bad for business and bad for luring the players we need, especially as our two world class signings have been flops so far.

Getting this call right is massive and saying he will be sacked at the end of the season anyway is not the right mentality in my view because it leaves a bigger problem.

Agree0 Disagree4

23 Feb 2015 23:25:19
I personally want to see LVG see out the season. If he doesn't get top four and suffers the same fate as Moyes then at least he can't turn around and say something along the lines of 'I would have qualified for the CL if the club gave me the whole season'.

Agree3 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 17:21:57
Going to raise a contentious subject now, Nani.

Would we have done better keeping him at the club and seeing what LVG could do to him? He is in quite brilliant form for Portugal and is back to the player that he was in that season where he got something like 20 assists and 14 goals (don't know the exact figures so don't make all replies corrective ones).

Would he be offering something different up front? Him and Di Maria, tricky, pacey players who bring a goal threat.

If he keeps up this excellent form then it wouldn't surprise me if we kept him for next season and just signed a young winger like Depay. The expensive wingers are mostly off limits anyway like Reus, Bale etc so it may be wise to have options of Di Maria, Nani, Depay and Januzaj - on paper that sounds pretty strong.

Believable3 Unbelievable4

23 Feb 2015 17:37:49
We will never know but he has had more than 1 chance to prove himself

Agree4 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 17:41:44
I doubt Nani would have been used Fresh. I think he would have contributed more than ADM, but there is now way he would have been played.

Agree1 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 18:08:23
How ironic that Nani is looking like a better player than Di Maria at the moment.

I hate to say it, but i think it was a massive mistake signing Di Maria. The guy just doesn look like he wants to be at the club. That 60 million, as it stands, has gone down the drain.

Agree4 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 18:12:22
I won't be at all surprised Fresh if DiMaria isn't even here next season, so maybe we could be looking at more than 1 new wide player.I personally think Nani could have a lot to offer, but he's has plenty of chances and not taken them. I think he will be sold, maybe to Juventus. Though I am not sure if their interest remains?

Agree2 Disagree3

23 Feb 2015 18:26:16
No. I argued he should have been given a last, last chance last season. That bit me in the ar$e. Plenty of chances, Nd just because he's doing well in a sub-standard league, changes nothing.

Agree2 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 18:39:41
As it stands, betty, I don't think I want him here next season.

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 20:39:08
He will be here if we can't move him and his wages are not going to make it easy. Given how poor we are down the right side, i do agree he could not be any worse than Valencia offensively, the issue is defensively he is an LVG type player as he is no wingback.

Agree0 Disagree0

24 Feb 2015 16:22:52
sorry meant to say he is not an lvg player

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 16:17:22
di maria is the worst 60 million ever spent.
Worldclass last year? He was never worldclass. He had an excellent game in the champions league final which made him 'worldclass'. He scores six goals a season and is a headless chicken. United fans need to forget this 's not himself'. He has great qualities but he will never be the player united fans already assume of him

Believable5 Unbelievable9

23 Feb 2015 16:30:03
I said at the time, defenders in Spain were more bothered about Ronaldo, Bale & Benzema so it freed him up to look good - it happens a lot and we fell for the hype and illusion.

A little bit similar to Sterling this season - but a kid is playing 10 times better than our so called world beater.

I do like how ADM looks to run with the ball and he is the only one that injects pace, but he can't pass it 5 yards and he is a massive wimp. We need more energy around him to get the best out of him, but I think he doesn't fancy it.

Agree2 Disagree5

23 Feb 2015 16:40:34
maybe if he played on the wing where he would be most affective we might see the di maria that got voted the best Argentinian player last season.

he is wasted in the centre of midfield

Agree6 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 17:19:25
There is no doubting that he is a classy player but he has been misused. Upfront, central midfield, anywhere but as a wide forward where he can run at people, take on the full backs and get balls into the box or cut inside and go it alone. There is no doubting that he is one of the best wingers in the world, but he isn't being played as one. He also doesn't have the movement around him that draws defenders away from him like he did at Madrid. We don't have a Ronaldo and a Bale. We need another winger in summer that's class so defenders take one eye off of Di Maria as there are more pacey threats from all over the pitch.

Agree2 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 17:41:23
I said last season di Maria was vastly overrated & I wanted reus & was shot down in flames.He doesn't want to be here too lightweight.I hope he proves me wrong but highly unlikely.Would just like to congratulate my lads and all the boys man utd u11's for winning the Anglo German tournament on Saturday at brentford

Agree4 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 17:43:46
I do thik LVG played him out wide a few games and he was useless.

I can't blame LVG for trying certain things, the problem is the mindset and that doesn't change in a 60+ year old like him.

Agree2 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 18:09:04
The beast
United lack goals all across the team. RVP is finished and rooney is woeful. He has been since 2010. People are begging him to play striker but he is probably content with midfield because he knows he well past it and it guards him from criticism and his huge wages. He doesn't have real pace, his touch is poor and he isn't a finisher. You can argue he wasn't getting the chances in a united shirt but in an England shirt in the summer when he was getting sitters he wasn't finishing.
United need for falcoa to have a miracle change in form and selection and he looks a goner .
vast amounts were spent but united have no defence in place, a decent midfield when herreras in(and his future looks uncertain)and a non existent forward line. And let's not forget de gea the best player with Madrid sniffing. Major problems looking past van gal

Agree2 Disagree4

23 Feb 2015 18:14:30
Beast, so now you are a psycho analyst as well now? :)

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 15:09:54
We should expect good football simply on account of the players we have and the money that has been spent on them - we should expect to be competing with the best and certainly beating the weak convincingly.

Furthermore the facilities and infrastructure built to aid these superstars should ensure top efficiency in preparation and training so maximum performance in their ONE game of the week is delivered. We have the best stadium, support worldwide, heritage in England - the full class of 14/15 is not living up to it and in any industry the blame lands on the managers lap, he is not getting the best out of the players. It simply has to change with the manager first, 6-7 months zero progress and unbelievable advantages thrown his way in the summer due to the disappointment of his predecessor. We all acknowledge we need a shed load of problems fixing still, if anything we are weaker after 2 transfer windows so who knows if the summer will be any different?

Therefore the team and manager are not delivering. Do you think Phil Jones, ADM, Januzaj, (just random names) care about what we were like in the 80's or 90's? I think there are far too many excuses being made. SAF has gone Moyes has gone, half the players should be gone and LVG should go first - he is not flexible enough for the situation we are in.

This season has not been good enough, the performances are poor, the management has been atrocious from an outside perspective and the return on investment from the clubs perspective has been nothing short of what must have been going through the minds of an ENRON or WorldCom investor.

You can't sack all the players, so the solution is simple!

Believable2 Unbelievable7

23 Feb 2015 16:01:32
so we get rid of LVG get a new manager in, who again changes all his staff, training regime, playing style ETC,

give the new manager 150 million to spend,

as well as all the new signings the new manager wants, plus the bedding in time for those set players not to mention our current players getting used to the above mentioned we are again back to square one.

there is no logic what so ever in getting rid of the manager.

Agree5 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 16:02:35
I think all united fans have been frustrated with the football this season. I agree that the money spent is absolutely not showing in the performances. But sack the manager? Surely that's just a knee-jerk reaction. Sacking a manager is what teams fighting for survival do. It usually will achieve a short-term goal and invigorate a team half way through a season to stay up. We need stability. It takes time for managers to implement a play style and adapt to a new team, a new league, a new country ect. Beast, I fully 100 million percent share your frustration with regards to the football this season, it has been nothing short of awful but managers need time. Unless Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp or Simeone are available we cannot sack Van Gaal. We need to trust him, he's won things everywhere he's been.

Agree2 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 16:34:34
Its the most logical things to do. Things can hardly get much worse, his methods are not being implemented properly, training is hardly benefiting our performances or fitness levels. Not sure exactly what we lose (aside from a bit of face) by sacking him. Burying our heads and hoping isn't what winners do, we need to be proactive or we turn into an also ran!

There seems to be no logic keeping somebody that consistently gets things wrong and hasn't improved us one jot since he took over.

Also - If I were a World Class talent I would look at Falcao, ADM, RVP, Mata, Kagawa even Herrera and think, no thanks Utd, I don't need all that money badly enough to deal with a drop in career and a loco manager!

Agree1 Disagree7

23 Feb 2015 16:56:51
Changing both fullbacks whilst drawing / loosing the game was the final straw for me.

Agree0 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 17:28:21
Again beast it's your opinion that it's the most logical thing to do.

Agree3 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 17:46:15
Chris - Yet again I am countering a point from spb directly beneath my comment "there is no logic what so ever in getting rid of the manager".

Am I not allowed to refer to the same word as used to counter my point now?

Agree2 Disagree3

23 Feb 2015 18:55:25
Of course u are mate I'm just being pedantic :)

I'm only having a giggle bud.

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 18:56:28
so we sack him and that's 2 managers in 2 years sacked,

what manager is going to want to manager us when the likely hood is they will be sacked?

i don't see anything wrong with what lvg is doing.

we are 4th and its still in our own hands to secure 4th place.

Agree3 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 19:31:22
Beast - your statement "We should expect good football simply on account of the players we have and the money that has been spent on them" is somewhat confusing. Look back on the comments on here (pretty sure you have written or agreed with a lot of them) and if they are to be believed we have the following:
DeGea - our best player this year
Rafael - injured, too impulsive etc
Jones, Smalling, Evans - not good defenders, can't distribute the ball etc
Rojo - a relative success who can't pass and just lumps it forward
McNair & Shaw - two youngsters finding their way, showing potential
Mata - too lightweight for midfield, games pass him by, bit of a luxury
Blind - seen as as stop gap until we can get better
Valencia - can't defend, can't beat a man, can't cross
Carrick - slows the game up, no creativity
Fellaini - can only use his physical presence, not a Utd player
Rooney - past it, can't pass, can't run etc
RVP - past it, manager's favourite, not interested etc
I won't go into the other players but as these are views expressed on here regularly, please tell me how we should expect good football.

Agree5 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 21:28:30
Chris - No worries mate, I should chill, haha.

Keanooh - Yes, but ask me to go through and critique any other team aside from Chelsea & City and I will be even harsher. We have the 3rd best team in the league on paper, yet we play like we are mid-table or worse.

I am critical because we should be competing with the very best, our players are not good enough for that, but they are playing far worse than they are capable. hope that makes sense, off to the sack now!

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 23:41:32
Playing like mid table?? Sure we've just dropped out the top 3. your views are 2 dimensional "play amazing football score lots of goals and win" there's about 18 teams in the prem that could benefit from your wisdom. all of a sudden we've bought di maria whos not even shown half the quality of the likes of tadic and falcao who is as prolific as shaun goater and we have the 3rd best squad in the league. really???? Guarantee you was calling for fergies head during mourinhos first tenure, probably said he was stubborn and past it? Probably criticised him for the keano staam n Beckham problems. you probably one of the ones who blamed him for last years squad. Try praising the improvement on last year with a not too dissimilar squad not to mention the experience we lost in giggs vida rio evra etc your criticism is like a cancer that eats away at the core of the club stop glory hunting and be glad of the fight for top 4 this season that wasnt there last year. its called growth.

Agree2 Disagree3

24 Feb 2015 11:49:50
Praising the improvement on last year, there has been no improvement on last year!

Agree2 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 14:40:44
I've been watching Utd for 30 odd years. SAF was undoubtedly the best manager in football period. The swashbuckling style, never say die, attack attack attack football, was fantastic to watch and any team that we played were almost 1-0 down before kick off.
We are now in a very different era, other teams are now stronger and we have a new manager, that i believe in, but sometimes this season its been hard to watch. I do believe we can make the top 4 this season and get back into Europe. 1 defeat in 20 isn't a bad return. We certainly need to find our attacking groove with some decisive games against Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool, City and Chelsea coming up, we are at home against 3 them and, and should do the business! We have big game players that usually perform for the team in big games. Away at City and Chelsea again, big games - i just hope our "superstars" turn up and play the Utd way. LVG needs to take the shackles off and let us play our football!!

Believable2 Unbelievable0

23 Feb 2015 20:46:26
SPB

That is naive view on what manager would want to come across to us. You guys seem to underestimate the size of this club and its ability to move the needle. REmember all the bs being posted last year about people would not join because we were going to miss on CL football, That turned out to be total red herring and this one is the same.

On you other point giving someone who is not going to succeed another 150 million to put us in even a bigger hole is a worst mistake than making a a change. Happens all the time in business and this is no different.

Agree1 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 11:58:54
First off I am a fan of the club, and have been my entire life. While this may not be as long as some of the other fans on this site it doesn't mean I am less of a fan. I may not have been alive to support the club prior to the 90's and witness its "struggles" to adapt and change. But I am aware of the history and greatness of the club.

I see people on this site complaining about the negativity of others. People are expressing opinions on their views of the club and how it is run. Instead of being passive aggressive and posting about "How much negativity is terrible" maybe people should attempt to communicate to others through posting and try to change that so called negativity. I don't think it is negativity, I think it is natural to want improvement, especially in our situation.

The argument about the past is invalid by the way. Yes we have been spoilt over the past few years but why does that mean we should lower our expectations? As Ed has mentioned below the two situations are incomparable. Regardless of the massive differences we are one of the biggest clubs in the world, so to expect less than to be playing attractive football is absurd. Yes we are in the middle of a re-building job, but we have spent over 200 million in the last 2 seasons on transfer fees alone. We have the highest wage bill in England and one of the highest world wide. Why is it wrong to expect immediate success when spending these astronomical figures?

Believable8 Unbelievable2

23 Feb 2015 12:53:57
Well said JaMax.

It irks me when I see people comparing LVG's and even Moyes's early experiences to that of SAF. As ED001 stated Ferguson built an unbelievable team from nothing. Little finances, little help and little reputation.

Agree5 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 14:32:45
JMB

"SAF built from nothing, little finances, help or reputation". SAF spent circa £18m from 86 to 92, not much now but a lot then and he spent on good players that took time to knit, SAF had a good reputation on his own merit from Aberdeen. I know what SAF did and supported him when he went through it but Busby and Jimmy Murphy built from nothing. We had a rich history, ancient history perhaps when SAF arrived but we had a reputation that we should be grateful that SAF rebuilt and embellished but didn't create.

Agree1 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 14:38:59
we have just gone through the biggest managerial change of the modern era. That counters any money thrown at it. Managerial changes playing staff. Money doesn't make it happen. it is a unique situation that I for one am not going to constantly pick at.The club was always going to falter mistakes are and will be made, expensive or otherwise, and I'd prefer to keep my focus on any positives that suggest there's a plan worth believing in.

as alwayws, being a Manchester United fan, I have the advantage of grand possibilities, always a dream to dream and I am quite grateful for that. the tone of some supporters opinions slash demands does suggest they really don't appreciate that. A kick in the face to a Burnley supporter or the likes who don't have and never have had that privilege to that kind of scale.

personally the money and time I put in isn't to demand anything it's to be a part of the journey.

I wish the best for L.v.G and hope luck goes for him and us. Monumental task but reasonable confidence it will go right.

200 miliion doesn't hide the fact there are positions to fill and certainly contains no logic to say it should gaurentee anything.

Manchester city and Chelsea have both spent well in excess of that to not only compete but overtake us in terms of playing staff and still had much to do after the initial outlay.

Agree3 Disagree3

23 Feb 2015 14:44:01
people need to stop going on about the fergie era, that time has gone.(plus the teams and finances compared to the 90s to now is completely different)

why should we expect super football just because of our history that if anything makes us a little naive to expect such things, regardless of money spent, we shouldn't expect instant success, look how long it took city to achieve the title after spending over 500 million in transfers, and they have had many managers in the process.


people need to move and realise its going to take more than one season to get back to where we were, we are still in desperate need of quality imo in every position bar the gk.

Agree4 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 16:21:35
Juan, on the contrary, regarding SAF's reputation at the time. He had taken a provincial side in Scotland, and shattered the Old Firm hegemony, in a league where that sort of achievement was nigh on impossible, and at a time when the standard of football in Scotland was higher than now. Not only that, he won a European trophy with this same provincial side, beating the mighty Bayern Munich and Real Madrid, on the way to victory. He was definitely not a shot in the dark, just because he hadn't managed in England.

Agree3 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 23:40:41
Noucamp. Fergusons CV and Uniteds reputation were not as 'big' as LVGs nor the modern Man Utd that is what I was getting at.

I agree what Fergie did at Aberdeen was fantastic but when you look at his CV then and LVGs now who has won titles in Spain, Germany, Holland etc there is a massive gap. On top of that look at the squads they both inherited. Fergie had very little and had to look to his youth. LVG had a fine squad plus injected another £150million of talent.

Surely the comparison is nil.

Agree1 Disagree0

24 Feb 2015 00:32:49
I'm not disputing any of that, mate. just the comment that SAF had little reputation, that's all.

Agree2 Disagree2

{Ed007's Note - Ferguson stopped Celtic and Rangers in the league, look at the difference in club size and finances and that's as good an achievement as Simeone at Atletico. Would anyone in a quiz know that Aberdeen were the last Scottish team to win a European trophy? And remember that was with Aberdeen, not Ajax, Barca or Bayern Munich where they have the money and are expected to win leagues and European trophies.}

24 Feb 2015 10:01:23
Absolutely, Bond. I remember back then the sense of shock in Scottish football, that anyone outside the Old firm could gatecrash the top table. Dundee Utd had a go too at the same time - can't remember the aul grey haired guy that managed them off the top of my head. It was a phenomenal achievement by Fergie.

Aberdeen are my 'other' team. Started supporting them because everyone at school was either Rangers or Celtic, and I was an awkward little bugger. I had the last laugh when they won the Cup Winners Cup. Went to University there, and the football team was one of the contributing factors in that decision.

Along with his success at Utd, his achievements at Aberdeen certainly are worthy of comparison.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - sorry but Ed007 is incorrect, at that time Aberdeen were benefiting from a major increase in income due to the North Sea money coming in. At that time they did not have a financial disadvantage to the Glasgow pair.}

24 Feb 2015 16:21:20
Ed, they may have had money, but like any large provincial country town (see Ballymena in my neck of the woods), they're flippin' loathe to spend it!

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 11:45:28
Hi guys is it true we chose to buy Di Maria instead of Ronaldo this past summer?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - not quite that simple. You tried to buy Ronaldo and came away with Di Maria. The choice was not really United's to make. Same happened in reverse when you went to Leeds to buy Chapman and he was not for sale, but Cantona was. Difference was that Fergie would have chosen Cantona over Chapman and assumed Wilkinson would do the same, so went for Chapman, but got lucky as Wilkinson made the wrong choice. This time around you wanted Ronaldo, he was not for sale but Di Maria was and you ended up with the lesser player. One that never wanted to come to you in the first place as well. Which is sad as any player, regardless of whether you are in the Champions League or not, should want to play for the biggest club possible.}

23 Feb 2015 12:45:38
Ed001 - what's your take on Di Maria? There has been mumblings he is unsettled and his performances have been, well abysmal.

Agree1 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - I don't really rate him as a player, technically fantastic but he has no football brain at all, very similar to Rooney in a lot of ways. They run around a lot, which looks great, but it doesn't achieve anything like the amount they could do if they directed their efforts properly. I think one of those type of players is great in a team, they inspire the others to work harder and fill in gaps etc. Two just get in the way a lot of the time. That is why I would put Di Maria wide, you don't have the huge gaps in midfield created by Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema etc in front dragging away the opposition, so he is under more pressure and he simply isn't clever enough to deal with it.

As for being unsettled, he never wanted to join United. He wanted to go elsewhere. I think it was Monaco off the top of my head, but I wouldn't trust my memory as to which team it was. I just think he came in on fire to prove a point, then he got an injury and it has got to him. Being in a new country and not able to do much, it affects the mind of footballers. It is injuries that often cause problems such as gambling to appear. I am not suggesting he has a gambling problem, just that he has allowed his unhappiness at being in the UK to get to him. Without knowing him personally, I wouldn't know if he needs an arm round his shoulder or a kick up the arse, but usually in these kind of instances they just need the arm round the shoulder. Maybe he is just not getting that? He wasn't known for being a good influence at Madrid, he was one of those involved in the dressing room splits, maybe he has not managed to get away from the bitchiness?}

23 Feb 2015 15:18:12
@Ed001

It was PSG which he wanted to go to I think, but they couldn't get him due to FFP.

But I don't think the blame for Di Maria's form lies solely with him. The manager has completely messed up his rhythm. Half of the games he has been played as a striker in the 3-5-2 system, and playing with his back to goal is not at all his game. The manager has also made comments in the media like "He dribbles too much" which surely have hit his confidence.

Di Maria is deadly on the counter attack and when playing with pace and movement, but we pass at an absolutely pedestrian pace and nobody apart from Rooney and to an extent Januzaj have any pace or movement in them. Basically, the way this team is playing does not suit Di Maria's game at all.

Getting rid of Falcao and RVP and buying a quick striker like Benzema (or playing Rooney up front on his own with Mata behind him), another winger and a box to box midfielder will bring the best out of Di Maria. Currently, he looks to be completely out of sync with the team.

Making too maany changes at a time has cost us a lot of team chemistry I think and players just aren't on the same wavelength, especially with the manager consistently chopping and changing the formation.

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 15:38:07
interesting to read your take on DiMaria Ed. And I absolutely agree with you. I posted on here Yesterday / Saturday about his poor performances, and stated that I don't thin he wants to be here, or will be here next season.
I think the signing of DiMaria is in some ways similar to that of Mata. Both good players, but in my view they were "statement" signings. Signing to make a statement to the footballing work that we still have the allure and pulling power to bring in the big names. I think Falcao can also be put n he same category.
In my opinion, we would be better served signing players who may perhaps be a level below these players in terms of reputation, but have a genuine desire to play for the club. DiMaria clearly doesn't.
I have said before that big names and price tags don't guarantee success. Nothing guarantees success. But desire to play for the team, the fans does certainly help.
Unfortunately, the club and most of the fans want instant success . and therefore these type of signings have become an expectation.
If the club had made signings in key positions, when they were needed, we wouldn't have fallen so far behind. A little tinkering and strengthening here and there would have ben far more constructive. Instead, we have panicked, tried to start with an almost blank canvas, and thrown money around at "marquee" signings that have simply not worked.
The manager situation is a whole different topic, but that is my view on the playing staff side.
Too much change, too quick, and with no real focus or direction. Like I said the other day, in my view there are far more deep rooted issues at United than just the manager, though he will ultimately take the fall for it.

Agree2 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 15:49:05
Thanks Ed for the reply. Really strange we went for a player whos heart wasnt in playing for us.

Id bqck Di maria to be successful but i always preferred Sanchez, i hope he succeeds and proves us wrong.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - there were not a lot of options around to be honest. I agree with Betty Swollocks on this, it was a statement of intent, that the club will bring in big names to rebuild and get back into the Champions League.}

23 Feb 2015 23:44:50
Very interesting ED. I personally would have liked is to take a chance on someone like Griezmann or Gaitan rather than sign a player for his stellar name.

Agree2 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 11:54:41
Just watched the Saints and Liverpool game from last night. First of all I have to say bravo to both teams for putting on a fine display of high paced attacking football.

Secondly and more importantly I am now deeply concerned for our season. Liverpool look red hot at the moment and the Gunners haven't missed out on top four for many years. Southampton to their credit are still lingering and our run-in is making my stomach turn.

After our poor finish last season, the appointment of a managerial maverick and our drastic spend in the summer I honestly thought we would cement a spot in the top four with authority this year.

I'm worried.

P.S did anyone see Nani's goal last night? What a year he's having!

Believable7 Unbelievable1

23 Feb 2015 12:22:01
Good to see our badly performed players like Nani to recover their form(Except the ones aging), but would've much liked if they did before they leave. Wonder if there is a real problem with Utd?

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 12:43:20
Is Nani worth taking another punt on? He has ability that's for sure but he just needs to show it more often. Players with magic in their boot that Nani can produce on form would cost an arm and a leg in this market.

Agree6 Disagree6

23 Feb 2015 09:08:52
Lost a bit of respect for LVG this weekend for giving in to the outsiders slating the football style. The style was a necessary evil because of the terrible state of our back line and changing it this weekend cost us 3 points. No surprise everything you read says utd played well. but lost. I also don't agree with the notion that Rooney is some sort of prolific striker when 80% of his game is spent in other positions away from the area he is neant to be. Uproar from fans because Rooney was being played in midfield even though when he's positioned as a striker he spends most of his time in midfield! We simply lack the defensive quality to play the 442 football people are demanding and i'm afraid its a sad day when a manager gives in to the pressure of the media. If he goes back to playing contained football we have a chance to land top 4. if he plays anything else we better get our brollys out because its going to be raining goals!!!

Believable2 Unbelievable5

23 Feb 2015 10:26:38
To be fair, I thought the defence was comfortable enough. We controlled the game, and lost to a heavily-deflected goal on the counter. I don't think the result is proof of the need to play the way you think we need to. I think it's proof that when you don't create enough good chances, sooner or later your luck is going to run out.

Agree3 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 10:55:11
Whatever line up he puts out should still be able to create chances and operate to a decent standard so many games this season the shape and play of the team has been poor. If it was intermittent I would blame the players but to be so consistently under par has to be the managers fault. ITa like watching great club players who disappoint when on the international stage. They don't become bad players it's because of the constraints and limitations enforced by the international managers that shackles them. This is what I think is happening to the players at the club now how else can so many big game players like Di Maria, Rooney, RVP be performing so below par so often. The players look like they have no input into the game and they have to do exactly what LVG orders, the fact that he never gets off his ass during the game supports this notion. he gives them his game plan and that's it no matter how the game evolves he sits there. th wonky bonus is that worse case scenario he is only here for 2 more seasons he is no different to moyes except people are afraid to question his philosophy given his a enormity in the game and his passed record of success.

Agree1 Disagree6

23 Feb 2015 11:06:35
We have played a lot worse and won games, due to teams not taking chances.
Liverpool should of scored 3 or 4, southampton away was awful.

Agree2 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 12:57:55
I feel as if because ore than half the season has gone by now that the fact David De Gea himself should be credited for at least fifteen of our points is overlooked by many folk.

There is only a limited number of get out of jail cards on the monopoly table and I for one am worried we don't have many left.

Agree1 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 14:08:04
The fact that Swansea had just over 30% posession yet managed 11 shots, 6 of which hit the target and only 3 were blocked. yet you say the defence looked comfortable?? Not to mention this is Swansea add to that the fact they have just sold their best striker and top it off with 2 goals from midfield. People are so hell bent on thinking they know better than a man whos been there and done it that when he does what people have been pressurising him to do and it doesn't work they use excuses like we was done by a deflection, yet when were winning they're out for blood. The fact is the way we was playing was getting us the points and the only reason our defence was 3rd best in the league we lost 2 goals to swansea playing too open, against the much better teams we'll be looking at cricket scores if we play this way.

Agree0 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 14:31:27
Statistics mean d1ck, mate. I judge it by the edge-of-the-seatometer. That was about the first game this season, were I haven't even come close to being on the edge of my seat. There was no sense of panic. No sense of impending doom any time Swansea got the ball. Totally in control.

You say we all think we know better than the great man himself - even LVG doesn't know which way he wants to play, and he's supposed to be the expert.

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 23:48:03
We've been in total control for the past 15 or so games and won and mostly kept clean sheets so the fact the game we concede 2 is the least uv been on the edge of your seat is a little strange. something not adding up there

Agree0 Disagree0

24 Feb 2015 00:42:06
Yeah, we kept clean sheets, but it always felt that we were capable of losing a goal, every time the opposition attacked.

As for being in total control for the past 15 or so games, I'd suggest you watch them all again, mate. And we haven't even played any of the bigger teams, bar Spurs in that run, and yet our points return from those games, as pointed out by someone else earlier, is not even top 4 standard, never mind title-challenging standard.

Ironically the Swansea game was the one that we probably controlled the most. Other than the two goals, which both came out of the blue, and one with a huge dollop of luck, there was nothing there to worry us.

Sometimes teams just lose games that they should have won. It happens. We had a fair amount of luck lately, and that ran out against Swansea. Nothing to do with a change in tactics, like you told us all rather triumphantly.

Agree1 Disagree0

24 Feb 2015 15:13:50
Our points in the last 15 games were more than any other team around us including chelsea and city. and to recap on your edge of the seat comment i take it you missed the clearance off the line that could have been 3 conceded goals and if a team has more shots on target they don't really qualify for the "luck" category.

Its a testament to your personal contradictions that you back up your argument with we've not played any of the bigger teams in a debate about losing to swansea.

and challenging for the title??? is that really what you have even considered for this term??? what exactly happened between may and august that gave you the slightest hint that was even a remote possibility???

Agree0 Disagree0

24 Feb 2015 16:22:35
Think you need to chill a bit, mate. Just reading your posts is giving me a headache. Not enough spaces and far too many question marks.

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 05:56:45
I read so much negativity on here that I wonder how many, even of those who were around before we started winning, really recall that things don't happen instantly. In 1992 SAF, after a few years at the helm had not delivered the title and I remember well that it was then a poor start to the 92.93 season.

It is often forgotten in winter 92, when Cantona arrived we were a mess. We gifted the title to Leeds the previous season and the club was affected by it. We had basically forgotten how to score goals, eighth in the table, out of two cup competitions and had won only two of the previous 13 games, scoring only nine goals in that time. Our "big" summer signing, Dion Dublin, had broken his leg and SAF failed in attempts to sign Alan Shearer and David Hirst. SAF even considered Mick Harford and Lee Chapman, that's how bad it got.

We all know what happened next but at that time we were utterly gutted, at losing the title to Leeds of all teams (apart from Liverpool) but also at how poorly we were playing. It was another time when we had to show a little faith in SAF. I remember the Cantona signing as I heard about it on the way to the pub to meet friends, all United fans, all incredulous we had got him. Back then there was no social media to moan on, no tourists visiting Old Trafford camera in hand to do selfies whilst clutching bags of merchandise from the megastore. It was fans who were frustrated in the pubs and on the terraces.

On here I constantly read negativity, yet the Cantona arrival should tell us things can change and quickly. We won the league after he arrived, no we won't win it this year but look at the difference he made. That was after six years of SAF, yet people on here have their claws into LvG months after he has started to change the structure of our monolithic club based previously on Glasgow shipyard mentality which proved more successful at home than in Europe. People criticise the present manager yet his starting position was weakened by last seasons debacle (not his fault either) just as SAF's was in 92. Maybe we need a Cantona moment but whilst LVG isn't my preferred choice he deserves more time. The keyboard warriors who moan about our football being the b all and end all should remember 92 and that Rome wasn't built in a day.

Believable3 Unbelievable6

{Ed001's Note - just be glad Cantona and Chapman fell out and that Howard Wilkinson chose Champman to stay or it would have been him you got that winter! For me LVG had his Cantona moment in the summer, but this time you ended up with Chapman (Di Maria) instead of Cantona (Ronaldo).}

23 Feb 2015 07:36:14
Ed001

Yes, thank goodness for that, there were rumours back then as to the reasons for the Chapman and Cantona fall out! On Ronaldo I hear there are still ongoing concerns over his left knee and reading a few articles hear it still troubles him with a condition that needs to be managed not unlike Hargreaves, unless you have heard different? Knees are a big risk at that price if so.

Agree0 Disagree1

{Ed001's Note - the rumours most people have heard were true. I don't know about Ronaldo, sorry, I have never asked, but it seems highly unlikely that a player would play every game with that knee condition. It would be physically impossible for them to walk for a number of days without a limp after each match, let alone run around the pitch.}

23 Feb 2015 07:58:42
Redman
We where a very different club back then so its difficult to compare the 2.
Shearer and hirst would of been great signings but we ended up with cantona so you can't complain .
Expectations have now risen moyes wasnt given a chance, even before a ball had been kicked by some.
Lvg maybe won't be given more than a season or 2 but when you are paying players 300k a week and having the largest spend in world football that's going to happen .

This is the real world and we need to get of our high horse .
During the fergy era we laughed at clubs changing there managers every year, blowing millions trying to buy the title .

Agree3 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 08:29:14
Ed001

If it is any help Marca two weeks ago said Cristiano Ronaldo still has problems with his left knee. He is struggling to regain the type of full fitness he needs to get back to his best out on the pitch. He is looking for a solution to his problem, doesn't feel comfortable.
One of the doctors he visited was Mikel Sánchez, the man who treated Luka Modric and Rafa Nadal when they suffered almost the same knee injury, tendonitis. (Portugal FA last June confirmed he was suffering with patella tendonitis)
Ronaldo travelled to Vitoria to hear his diagnosis and discuss possible therapies. It was not the first time that he had visited the same doctor. He also dropped into the Vithas San José clinic last season.
The type of stem cell and blood treatment suggested requires that he spend at least six weeks on the sidelines.
His knee hurts whenever he tries to sprint, which is why his famous runs have given way to him playing closer to or even inside the 18-yard box, more as an out-and-out centre-forward than a winger

Thought that may be of interest

Agree1 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate, I hadn't read that.}

23 Feb 2015 09:07:29
Redman. Good post and I fully agree as i lived through all that and way before that as well. Of course, life has changed significantly since then, the world moves a lot faster and people's patience is nearly non existent.
I'm pretty sure we will try very hard to make top4 this year, but I don't think we will make it unfortunately. As for next year, the club has to invest heavily in the right players and get rid of a lot of the average ones I mentioned in a recent post.
We have to address our midfield and centre back and right back issues as everything else will improve once we have a solid back and a midfield that creates chances.
I also think lvg needs to start getting the players who can up the tempo significantly as at present, we're seriously lacking in that area.

Agree6 Disagree6

23 Feb 2015 09:14:59
Red Man,

I am not posting so much at the moment but still reading, and that post pretty much sums up where I am at so I felt I should reply, some people don't even realise it but they sound so spoil.

Your first two paragraphs put things into perspective a lot and hopefully people will read them and remember / realise things have not always been the way people like to think.

Agree2 Disagree2

{Ed001's Note - how does it put things into perspective? Ferguson had to build from nothing. LVG (and Moyes before him) took over a club with immense resources and have spent huge sums. It is nothing like the same situations or even similar at all. People are harking back to a completely different age desperately searching for anything to suit their twisted viewpoints.}

23 Feb 2015 10:36:27
I never said anything about it being exactly the same situation, it clearly isn't, the perspective I am getting at is that we have not always been challenging for league titles and winning things and that actually in a couple of years there is a good chance we will be again so at the moment we might just need to suck it up and enjoy the battle for champions league.

My 'twisted viewpoint' is my opinion by the way, which I thought it was ok to have.

Agree2 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - you quite clearly compared two situations that are completely different and irrelevant to each other. There is no perspective to be gained by looking at situations that have so little in common. Do United have a group of players with drink problems causing problems for the new manager? Do United have a culture of years of failure to overcome? It is not the same or even close to being the same. The problem is it is being treated as a similar one, the club have tried to treat it the same way and such a drastic overhaul was not needed. It is exactly the same mistake Liverpool made when Souness took over. They panicked and rebooted the whole club, United are doing the same thing when it only needed a facelift.}

23 Feb 2015 10:41:00
If by negative, you meant pointing out various mistakes that LVG has been making, whilst still hoping he comes good for the good of the club. then I'm as guilty as anyone on here.

I just don't think, because you have chosen to stand by this particular manager, that you're in a position to preach to others about how they should be behaving as fans.

I really don't want to go back over old ground Red Man, and I don't want to get into a silly argument. Like you keep saying, Moyes is long gone and his management spell here was unsuccessful, so this isn't a yearning for a manager who I thought deserved to be considered for the job as the top British manager around at the time, but wasn't my preferred choice.

I just think it's a bit rich to be calling posters up on their so-called negativity, when you spent all last season doing the exact same thing.

Most posters on here, from what I can see, do not want to get rid of our manager before a season has finished. One or two, maybe, but certainly not 'a lot of negativity'. There are questions being asked though, because we do expect better from a manager who has no lack of self-belief in his philosophy and management skills. Maybe if he didn't keep harping on about how clever he is, then people would be a little more understanding of his mistakes.

Agree2 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 11:07:14
Ed001

I totally agree with you. The fact that they bring up 1992 is enough of a ludicrous start to their argument.The too club back then and now are not even comparable.

Things have changed boys and if you guys want to sit around the fire and tell old time war stories be my guest but absolutely no relevance to what we are witnessing today.

I don't know why you just can't see the obvious, we will miss Europe and he will be sacked maybe even before the season ends. He is an Ego maniac that is way beyond his sell by date and will never build us rome. Getting outsmarted by average teams with decent players and managers who are not dinosaurs. Worst of it he is blind and can't see a flaw in what he is doing and keeps doing it over and over.

BTW the rest of us also remember as far back as in 1982 and you guys are not the only ones who have followed the club and its history but it has nothing to do win this case of an under performing completely confused manager.

Finally GDS

I said this before that all this nonsense about 3rd and one defeat is a mirage and now we are hanging on for dear life to 4th, being the most out of form team from the pack chasing 3rd and 4th and coming into a brutal stretch of games against better teams in the league. The writing is on the wall but i guess for the optimist it ends when mathematically we are out of it.

Agree3 Disagree4

23 Feb 2015 11:40:50
its just the intensity of training and mileage he has clocked on that body which is catching up to him.

all he can do is alter his game, to accomodate this eventual toll.

i remember reading about tim duncan suffering from plantar facilitis and tendonitis, he had to adapt his game, reduce his minutes and pace himself during the regular season to save his body for the playoffs.

obviously in football everygame is a playoff so ronaldo does not have such luxury. but he has to just admit to himself that he can no longer be the main guy and adapt his game, or play a pure no 9 role and a 10 role. as a winger he will only heighten the injury further.

also as you grow older as everyone knows, it takes longer to heal and recover.

Agree1 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 11:45:21
Ed001,

I think you misunderstood totally the point I was making, I have not mentioned anything to do with the difference between the job Fergie had to do and the job LVG had to do, the point I was making could have just as easily have been Tommy Doherty, in other words we have been crap before and the world didn't end, the fans sucked it up and we got back to being dominant eventually. I wasn't being specific to era's as I understand things have changed a lot now, but we as fans are still just fans, I am the same person I was back when we weren't very good, even if the club and game has changed.

I appreciate a lot of fans are fans because we are good, they see Manchester United winning things and that is the team they support, it is natural and why there are so many Liverpool and United fans across the country, and I have no problem with it, I understand this will always happen and I certainly appreciate what these fans give to the club commercially and financially. It is the reason we see a lot more City fans knocking about in Manchester these days. I just think some fans come across as spoilt, and not surprising really given the success we have come to expect over the last 20 years.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - ok mate, got you now.}

23 Feb 2015 12:45:44
Gds
R you trying to say if you want the club to do well you are a glory hunter?

Every sportsman every sports team sets themselves a goal, a level to reach united should be no different .
You strive to be the best you can the moment you stop is the beginning of the end.

You talk about negativity but identifying your weakness and areas of improvement is how you improve.

Some see 4th as all important but i would take 5th as long as we are improving .

Just out of interest where all the fans shouting for moyes to be sacked after only a few months being spoilt.
After we missed top 4 for the first time in 20 year

Agree4 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 12:34:15
Totally agree Ed, United Real Barca Bayern this is all that counts. We are the 2nd biggest club in the world financially and our manager and players should reflect that. Big mentality changes needed at the club. LVG wasn't the right man has never looked it and wasted 150m, that doesn't include falling out with folk and playing boring football. One year or not he wouldn't be at any of the above clubs next season and outside the dutch 2nd division they'll be nobody looking to take him off us.

Agree2 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 13:14:16
At the end of the day If you are settling for a 'rebuilding job' or a 'long term plan' you do not go out and spend £200million in less than a year.

Does an astute businessman invest some major capital into a business to watch it fall flat on its face? Does a car enthusiast buy a Ferrari and expect it to run like a fiesta?

GDS - I think I see the point your trying to put across but like ED001 I was initially seeing it another way. You have to be more clear on the point your putting forward.

Agree3 Disagree3

23 Feb 2015 13:28:47
I often wonder if people on this site want Manchester United to go without winning for a few years so they can claim they're not glory hunters. There is a huge difference between saying that you only support the club because they're successful and wanting the club to be as successful as it can be. Any supporter who honestly thinks that the club shouldn't be doing everything in its power to get back to winning trophies is doing the whole supporter thing wrong.

At the moment we see a club with a distinct lack of identify and clear vision for the future. Some people think we should give van Gaal time to implement his vision, while others are worried that van Gaal is actually dragging us further away from success. As Ed001 correctly points out, this is nothing like when Fergie took over: it isn't a perennial looser building a new club from the ground up. It has been two successive managers taking over a top class club, albeit in need of investment in new players, and given substantial resources to do it.

Let's just cut the nonsense and the get behind the team if you're a real supporter. The vast majority of people here want the club to be successful, and questioning the direction the club is being taken under van Gaal doesn't make someone less of a supporter. All it means is that they are unsure that van Gaal deserves to keep getting massive investments to rebuild the squad when the team is yet to show any real signs that his methods are working.

Agree3 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 14:13:17
StevieK

I stood by SAF not just this particular manager so it was not rich as you put it to highlight the last managers totally inadequate experience and resulting always likely failure

GCU

There is a reason why history is studied, it is so we can learn to avoid mistakes and repeat successes. I pointed out that momentum was lost in 92 with the club devastated by what happened the previous season, like it was last season and equally made the point it can turn around quickly as it did back then. You refer to LvG as an ego maniac, yet just what did you think SAF was?

Agree1 Disagree2

23 Feb 2015 14:16:38
jred,

No pal, I would never say anybody is a glory hunter, again that really wasn't what I was saying. Also, definitely not getting into the Moyes thing again.

JMB, thanks for the advice.

Of course everybody wants the team to do well, we want the club to dominate again but it is not necessarily a quick process, this season needs to be an improvement on the last, which it is so far, and I have no doubt that in a couple of years we will be challenging again, it just needs a little patience.

Agree1 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 15:01:42
Redmam
So should people only get behind the managers you rate?

91/92 was a kick in the teeth but it was imo our best season for 25 years there was no mistake the club was moving in the right direction, which was proved by the next 20 years.

Gds
Yer best avoid that one would raise a few questions

Agree1 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 15:35:43
@Red Man

Would just like to highlight some KEY differences between Sir Alex and LVG.

1. Sir Alex was an excellent man manager and consistently got the best out of his players. Very rarely would you see him come out in the press and throw his players under the bus.

LVG is quite the opposite. Has criticized players in the media.

2. Sir Alex always wanted to attack the opposition, slow possession football was never his style. The style of play was fearless and inspired confidence.

3. He didn't try to get everything his way and completely change things, he did it gradually and was a master of rebuilding

4. He wasn't stubborn on learning and changing and improving his methods with time. He always brought on the right coaches and assistant managers over his time. Mclaren, Queroz, Muelensteen and examples.

5. Although you have highlighted how much Sir Alex spent during his initial years, it still isn't close to the kind of buying LVG has done with absolutely no improvement on the football of last season.

6. Sir Alex was always on the touchline trying to motivate and instruct the players. LVG on the other hand let's them fall and make mistakes, there is zero game management.

But most importantly, Sir Alex took over a club which had forgotten how to win the league and came in an era where Liverpool dominated and the club had a drinking culture. He had to revamp the youth system and set new structures in place. He had a vision.

LVg on the other hand has taken over a club which won the league just two years ago, has had world class professional talent at his disposal from day 1 and has set structures at the club to work with and top facilities. He is failing to fulfil the very basic we should be expecting from him, a team which creates quite a few goalscoring opportunities every game.

Agree2 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 15:49:46
@jred

I find myself agreeing with your general opinion of Van Gaal. To me, what he has done at his previous clubs is irrelevant once he is in the hot seat and also, the Manchester United job is completely different to the ones he has done before.

All I have seen from the manager this season is :-
1. Tactical blunders.
2. No consistent vision, formation or idea of first 11.
3. Over emphasis on possession and blunting of attackers with a slow and pedestrian style of play.
4. Playing players out of position.
5. No balance in the team.
6. Throwing players under the bus in the media instead of protecting them. (Just look at the lengths to which Jose is going to protect his players. That gains you respect in the dressing room.)
7. An inability to make the big and right decisions like dropping RVP.
8. Relying on hopeful long balls to Fellaini.
9. Poor game management and not being on the touchline to motivate the players.
10. A stubborn attitude and refusing to adapt and change.

If things don't improve in the next few months, he needs to go in the summer, even if we finish 4th.

Agree1 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 15:59:51
I can tell you that at the beginning of the 92.93 season we were far from sure where we were going after what happened the previous season. It was the Cantona moment that changed things.
Said it many times I am not an Lvg fan and don't ask people to get behind him but am suggesting a little patience as things could click. I am prepared to look at what his plans are, whether his strategy has convinced the board. We shall see.

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 16:55:06
Redfaith
As you point out there is an awful lot that concerns me at the moment about lvg .
My biggest concern is i see little or no improvement i'm far from convinced that the answer is to spend more money .

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 17:20:15
The problem, jred, is that more money does need to be spent. Despite spending close to £250m in two seasons, we still look a long way off being genuine title challengers, and it's obvious that we are lacking in a few key areas. The question now facing the board is whether they should give van Gaal another £100m plus this summer when he has limited improvement with the money he spent last summer. The flip side is bringing in a new manager would potentially mean another idea of what the rebuild needs.

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 17:54:19
Danny
It difficult to say how good or bad this squad is imo .
At the moment it looks like we need 5 or 6 players but that could change if ADM, rooney mata herrera shaw and a few others found some form or are played in there correct position .
And the manager sorted formations and tactics out.

Im also not sure how much say the manager has in transfers .

People seem to think if we sign x, y or z lvg will start playing a different brand of football, i'm not so sure.
What difference has the 150 mill made .

Infact what difference did injuries make, do we look any better with a fully fit squad compared to when we had several star players out

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 19:26:08
REDFAITH

There are key differences between SAF and LvG, we are going to have to live with a different direction now and the club should have figured that before setting out on one of the biggest transitions in football history yet they blew it, now some are frustrated because LvG hasn't fixed it in 6 months.

On some of your points

1. "Sir Alex was an excellent man manager and consistently got the best out of his players." I am halfway through Roy Keanes book and in it he described how SAF would not speak to him for weeks if SAF didn't like what he did. That isn't good man management for me. SAF was a master motivator but Clough was the man manager. SAF got the maximum out of players because they respected and feared him as a leader not a man manager.

"LVG is quite the opposite. Has criticized players in the media"
I am fed up with the cosy cosseted footballers being protected after matches by managers who would say anything to protect them. SAF attacked referees to hide poor performances but it's about time someone placed the blame where it should be, the players themselves. I am also sure you remember how SAF was interviewed on TV after winning a cup with Aberdeen saying his players were unacceptable.

2. "Sir Alex always wanted to attack the opposition, slow possession football was never his style. The style of play was fearless and inspired confidence" Agree to an extent, SAF had momentum and fear gained over years of dominance, then destroyed by the initial transition. However SAF swashbuckling style didn't achieve anywhere near as much as we should have done in Europe. We got found out so many times but he never developed, it is time we did.

3. "He didn't try to get everything his way and completely change things, he did it gradually and was a master of rebuilding" You kidding ? He came in and dealt with the drink culture as he needed to do, he was ruthless throughout. It was because he got everything his way that he succeeded but only with very limited success in Europe. He had only one way of dealing with things and it gave us a limited path. We got destroyed by Barca and SAF said he knew what was wrong and would put it right, then we got stuffed again because he didn't learn. In 95 he completely changed things by correctly blooding the kids that wasn't gradual.

4. "He wasn't stubborn on learning and changing and improving his methods with time. He always brought on the right coaches and assistant managers over his time. Mclaren, Queroz, Muelensteen and examples" SAF had good coaches but you really think he wasn't stubborn? His actions over the racehorse were stubborn and affected the club., again I refer to the Barca example above and his stubbornness meant we could never change or improve, .

5. "Although you have highlighted how much Sir Alex spent during his initial years, it still isn't close to the kind of buying LVG has done with absolutely no improvement on the football of last season." At the time SAF spent well without any notable improvement, I remember significant pain when we lost 5.1 to City in 1989 after three years of SAF.

6. "Sir Alex was always on the touchline trying to motivate and instruct the players. LVG on the other hand let's them fall and make mistakes, there is zero game management." Can't disagree, I do think LvG has the wrong number two who he doesn't seem to communicate with, it may well have been forced on him. One thing is often missed and that was against Madrid in the CL when Nani was sent off. SAF was waving his arms at referee, linesman whilst Mourinho was making a substitution and changing tactics, which then saw them score. Waving arms on the line is not always helpful but I agree I would like to see more from LvG there.

"But most importantly, Sir Alex took over a club which had forgotten how to win the league and came in an era where Liverpool dominated and the club had a drinking culture. He had to revamp the youth system and set new structures in place. He had a vision.LVg on the other hand has taken over a club which won the league just two years ago, has had world class professional talent at his disposal from day 1 and has set structures at the club to work with and top facilities. He is failing to fulfil the very basic we should be expecting from him, a team which creates quite a few goalscoring opportunities every game."
The club made a mess of the transition and we are paying a heavy price. Two years ago the football was poor so SAF was getting them to win without the entertainment. Now after a few months LvG hasn't turned around a ship that not only had problems when SAF was there then employed the wrong manager destroying all confidence and LvG has had more to deal with than people think. We had a culture that left us wide open in Europe so for me we needed to change genetically. I think a lot will depend on what LvGs strategic plan is and whether the board buy in. We will find out more in summer.

Agree0 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 20:00:45
@Red Man

1. Keane's revelations actually highlight the man management. Sir Alex got the best out of Keane for many years. Its only after the fallout is he coming out with these things. I don't expect the manager to be happy go lucky with the players and to always be protective. But LVG simply doesn't seem to know what he is doing.

2. Sir Alex's tactics did cost us in Europe in the 90s. But it was put right when Queroz came on board. We were unlucky against Leverkusen and against Bayern Munich. Sir Alex post 2006 was excellent tactically in Europe. You kind of proved my point, he learnt and adapted. The Barcelona side that beat us twice in the final is perhaps the greatest side ever to have played. We got to the final thrice in 4 years mate and we played on the counter in all 4 seasons. The tactics were excellent post 2006 in Europe.

Also LVG seems to be playing a pointless possession tactic. Bayern, Barca etc. move the ball far quicker in their style of possession football and don't resort to hoof the ball up to Fellaini tactics. It really is quite embarrassing to watch a United side play that way.

3. The club has indeed made a mess of the transition, by appointing the wrong manager not once, but twice. You only need to look at the quality we have in the squad this season and then watch us play to know that LVG has failed.

4. I don't think we should sack him now, it would achieve nothing. But we need to review it towards the end of the season and see if we can get Ancelotti or Klopp.

Agree1 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 20:05:50
Of course the biggest difference is that fergy was a top manager lvg has been a decent manager altough that was 20 odd year ago .

Agree1 Disagree1

23 Feb 2015 21:12:32
Redman

Alex ferguson was an ego maniac that backed it up and the start of his managerial career and the circumstances are not even comparable to LVG.

Roy Keane is so twisted I would not get to hung up on what he has to say. At the end of the day he walked out on his national team like a spoilt brat and not many professional athletes in any sport do that and has zero credibility no matter how good a footballer he was at his peak.

You guys need to make up your mind because according to you and some others the last manager took over a good team and under-perfomed because he was not qualified because of his CV, this manager has taken over the same team and spent a 150 million but for some reason you think he is doing ok.

BTW same time last year i believe we had 3 points less. On another note the best guy I have hired in the last 20 years had the most average CV and believe me i have had my worst disappointments with guys who's cv's said otherwise and this CV thing is another red herring and many a managers with good CV's have failed in new roles.


Redfaith

Great post and spot on. I am speechless that people can even compare the 2. SAF was the greatest manager in the game period.

Mourinho has a chance but his CV still lacks what Fergie has done.

Agree0 Disagree0

24 Feb 2015 05:13:47
REDFAITH

You said LvG doesn't seem to know what he is doing, well I think he will have had to present his ideas to the board, how he envisions the club style and how it should be structured. It will likely be a medium term plan. Without knowing what that looks like I don't think we can say that. Playing rubbish football is not exclusive to LvG at OT.

I don't think you should confuse man management with leadership. SAF was a great leader who inspired and cajoled being utterly ruthless, that didn't make him a great man manager

We may have played a great Barcelona side, but the second time SAFs tactics were naive.

I agree the club made a mess of the transition, by appointing a very wrong manager to begin with and one in LvG I didn't think was right. However I don't think we can say LvG has failed, not yet and we don't know the vision he is sharing with the board.

I don't think we should sack him now, and have said we need to review it towards the end of the season, Ancelotti or Klopp would be interesting.

Agree0 Disagree0

24 Feb 2015 05:24:21
GCU

You need to get over the previous manager. He took over a team full of confidence with momentum that all teams feared which he then destroyed, he turned us into a team looking over our shoulders. LvG did not take over the same team because of the mess made.

You also need to stop comparing points between them. We won the league with a wide variety of points totals and it didn't always need 90 points to win it, it is where you finish in the league that matters.

Agree0 Disagree2

22 Feb 2015 23:54:23
Not a good weekend and the race for the top 4 is in the balance. I want to believe we can make it but other teams look better.

The run in is not easy and we must beat sunderland and newcastle to have a chance.

All season we have created very little and lvg is banging on about the philosophy yet nobody seems to know what is. We lack speed, penetration and movement. The players look confused and to make matters worse lvg sits on the bench as cool as you like. Where is the passion? Should he not be in the technical area shouting the instructions. I like lvg and i want him to succeed but this looks nothing like his former teams and it baffles me. It's like lvg is playing not to lose and get top 4 even if it means playing a style or way he would not normally play. I can't imagine this is the philosophy or game style he wanted. You can't play that slow and without creation and achieve in this league. The premier league is played at a frantic pace and requires all action performances.
We don't see players busting a gut for the team enough. Yes some players give all but as a supporter you want it all left on the pitch and to see the players with hunger and passion.

Some people think we should go back to 3-5-2 but i think 4-4-2. Valencia needs to be benched and get rafael into the team for me. We should play ddg, rafael, smalling/jones, rojo, shaw, di maria, blind, herrera, young, mata, rooney.
Two strikers up top is not working and i think one in behind the striker would benefit us more and allow us to play with wingers.

I think lvg has to let go and play attacking football and beat teams because you can't scrape top 4 playing pointless possession football.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

23 Feb 2015 08:29:14
Anything is worth a try now1

Agree0 Disagree0

mbd              

23 Feb 2015 01:43:06
{Ed001's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Manchester 'pointless possession' United - The Truth

Believable0 Unbelievable0

23 Feb 2015 02:23:46
Very interesting

Agree0 Disagree0

23 Feb 2015 09:23:18
a good read that but i honestly don't think that style works in the prem. you only got to look at arsenal and what they've won in the last ten years, could bring in a few more European titles though.

Agree0 Disagree0