Manchester United Banter Archive January 23 2015

23 Jan 2015 21:42:56
Last five minutes, and I'm torn between sitting with my heart in my mouth every time Cambridge go forward, and hoping we don't score at the other end because Cambridge deserve a replay for their efforts tonight.

Has it really come to this?

That was exactly how I felt, its just wrong.

When they just said their man of the match shares a house with 3 other Cambridge players it made me sick.

RVP's garage will be more expensive than that house!

People will still come out with the old "its hard against teams like this" but it was Cambridge 12th in League 2. My old Sunday league side could defend against us.

Shocking, bad management, world class players seem confused about what there doing

23 Jan 2015 20:48:30
So please one of LVGs super fans defend that. LVG should be sacked for that 45 minutes alone and if people think it's the players not the manager then why isn't he out of his dug out bollocking them. Shambles this squad will not finish anywhere near top 4, that cannot be any excuse for that performance it's not as if it's a one off, Yeovil was just as bad how is any player who isn't money driven want to be involved with that dross.

23 Jan 2015 21:21:58
Haha you only post when we play badly, you are embarrassing.

I love the fact that some blinkered LVG believer diagramed with my comment. Please explain to me what part of that wasn't the most embarrassing performance by a top flight team in Europe this decade. I'm sorry I don't think terrible performances are acceptable and things are not getting better if it were not for DDG and bad season s from Spurs arsenal and liverpool we would be worse off than we were last season having spent over £150 million. LVG needs the boot asap I'll look forward to revisiting this at the end of the season when we are settling for Europa league

That's every game though GDS2.

23 Jan 2015 22:00:06
He isn't the only one GDS2 there are plenty of others that do the same, page will be flooded in 30 minutes

23 Jan 2015 22:05:17
Didn't we draw with burton at old trafford this decade?

GDS2 I like your positive views on here but there was nothing positive about tonight. We were slack and poor up top especially.

That Burton game we had 3rd string on show. This was virtually full strength, I don't think we have had a worse result.

We were better than against Yeovil thinking back now, some progress, haha!

The only positive for me was Rojo. He is going to a big player for us in the coming years I think.

I won't rant and shout get rid of lvg but you can't argue that were improving especially after that performance, absolute disgrace utd should reimberse every one of the travelling fans.the only positives i can take out of tonight is that were still in the fa cup and the performance of rojo.what is wrong with di maria he doesn't look as though he wants to be here something not right there

23 Jan 2015 22:48:04
Juanmata,

I never said there was anything positive, just that post was embarrassing.

23 Jan 2015 23:03:39
"most embarrassing performance by a top flight team in Europe this decade"

Jamie, I always look forward to your measured, rational, chilled-out posts :)

I'm dissapointed we didn't win and it wasn't the best display but games like this are Always the same on a hiding to nothing.

I am far from convinced with the manager but everything we have been screaming for was on show tonight I think the players need to take some responsibility.

And God how badly did we miss Rooney!!

23 Jan 2015 20:34:35
Does anyone know what the logic is with Phil Jones taking corners??

23 Jan 2015 21:15:47
I'd stick him infront of the keeper, and make him pull one of his faces to put him off.

Pretty sure he just took a freekick out left too, no idea what's happening.

The little adverts on this site has a Great White about to chew Phil Jones face off.

23 Jan 2015 16:05:27
Ed002,

I remember you saying something along the lines of "don't be surprised if Van Gaal isn't at Manchester United next season" and that there was a possibility of a few managerial changes around Europe in the summer. Surely the poor performances and being awfully close to falling out of the top 4 has not gone unnoticed by the United board?

My questions are, has the club had anyone look into it and suggest changes in management for next season? What is your opinion of Van Gaal at United so far?

{Ed002's Note - I am not getting in to that at this time.}

Really can't see that happening unless we finish outside the top 4.

Shall we bring back moyes redfaith?

I was thinking more along the lines of Ancelotti. But sure Moyes would do fine. And while we are at it why don't we sign O'Shea and Brown for the center back positions?

Now you're talking!!

At least we would have experienced centre backs

23 Jan 2015 16:44:28
Well we seem to be getting a head of steam up here to get rid of LVG don't we? many are scratching their heads quizzically but that doesn't mean we need a new Manager. For those oldies like me let me take you back to SAF's early years. Even when we making strides forward he made some strange decisions. Paul Ince at full back is a memorable one and it did seem he wasn't always making sensible decisions. Mae also went several years without a 'proper' right back.

Some thing he is the Messiah, some think he should be sacked. MI am guessing most f us want to see how the season pans out but that doesn't mean we can't voice opinions, postitive or negative on here.

I've always tried to take the long view and stayed out of the DM debate for the most part last year. I like LVG, I think he is great fun, but right now I find watching our games incredibly frustrating. We have the players, let them play

I don't want him sacked I just want him to use the tools at his disposal to have us playing attractive attacking football and he just seems determined not to! And I just for the life of me cannot understand why.

Hopefully this period of dire miserable boring football that we are excruciatingly living through comes to an end and we start to play the way we expect.

I think most people just want to see us start playing proper football. Whether or not people want LVG out will be dependent on his ability to get us to start doing that again.

23 Jan 2015 19:05:38
Let's drag SAF off the golf course kicking and screaming eh guys. Seriously though, people need some patience, injuries have buggered our defence all season, and even a manager with LVG'S experience will have been affected by that. In a 442 type formation we do look better, but I kind of agree with LVG, we have looked very vulnerable too.

We can't start changing managers every season, it's pathetic. We will finish top 4, we will be in the CL and we will finish the rebuild with a big summer window. Let's judge him this time next year eh.

I remember now why I stay away from here 99% of the time.

Im prepared to give lvg the benefit of the doubt but if we don't get top 4 then i think he's a goner.on the subject of changing managers on a regular basis fergie and wenger are one offs it will never happen again that any top european teams will have a manager that length of time.look at all the major clubs in europe madrid, barca etc they change managers on a regular basis wether they are successful or not.

Top post AJH.

I am in the same boat as you are and will wait and see how this season pans out. It does not mean I will bow my head like a sheep and agree with everything he is doing as some here want the rest to do.

Ugly and uninspiring football by a bunch of multi millionaires is not great to watch given our history and what some of us are used to and I hope we can show some resemblance of nice flowing football.

23 Jan 2015 14:51:46
Hi all, I'm convinced we found the new I am kloot in beast, its uncanny how there text carries the same voice.
Just want to say let's put 5 past them tonight.falcao hat trick on the cards is my call.Please read up on the falcao helping a boy get a new heart by helping getting a donor.

23 Jan 2015 15:14:51
Beast is much more light-hearted and entertaining in his rants , than that grumpy aul sod :)

I hope he starts Falcao and not RvP

Falcao seems like a top bloke.

Beast has taken a lot of stick mate, he is very different to Rainfish. I have rarely found Beast trying to insult fellow posters. I don't agree with him most of the times, but I have a lot of respect for the fella. He gets a real rough ride on this website.

Deeps.

Rubbish. Beast is entertaining, KLOOT was regularly offensive

23 Jan 2015 12:37:38
Can anyone see Mata being used as bait to help land Pogba? Mata plus 30m? In my opinion Mata would be much better suited to Italy, and with Pogba signed hopefully Rooney would move back to his better position behind a central striker.

{Ed002's Note - No.}

I think the player Juventus would want is Januzaj.

Ild give them januzaj. in exchange for pogba with whatever deal being discussed

23 Jan 2015 15:49:12
Januzaj this time last year was the best thing since sliced bread what happened :P

23 Jan 2015 20:37:25
Butter was founded, and sliced bread was found out? ;)

23 Jan 2015 11:09:36
@ Shappy

I understand what you have been trying to point out, that we don't have the players yet to play Van Gaal's system. And that is exactly why everyone wants that system to be changed. It doesn't suit any of our players, especially when you completely nullify our two best players in Di Maria and Rooney with where they have been played.

The 3 at the back can work. Juventus have done it (but in a slower league). Liverpool dominated Chelsea with 3 at the back. But what they had was quick, nimble players who are good on the ball in midfield and up front. They have the type of players that can play a quick possession, one two passing type style and played really well. We don't have players that can do that and those that can (read Herrera) are warming the bench.

@Beast

I am in agreement with you about LVG getting things wrong, but I have to ask you, what good will it do sacking him now? Which manager can we bring in right now that will not only get us firmly into the top 4, preferably 3rd and also be good as long term manager of Manchester United? I don't see a single manager available.

It is very easy to say sack him, but I always look at "what after we sack him"? And I looked at things the same way last season when everyone wanted Moyes out. I'm not too sure we bettered what we had last season with Moyes. We still have a stubborn manager, who is playing defensive football and over-training the players. LVG has a better CV than Moyes, but its still nowhere near top managers imo and there are quite a few that are better out there but weren't available and he was pretty much appointed by default.

The only thing that has gotten better is the perception in the media, since LVG is quite good with the press and the likes of Arsenal, LFC, Everton have been well below the level they were at last season this time round, leaving us in 4th with still quite a lot of goodwill and optimism amongst the fans due to our spending in the summer. It would not have been like that had a couple of teams been above us.

So if we can better what we have and bring someone in that will be good for the long term, sure, we might look to changing the manager, but if we can't then unfortunately sticking with him and hoping he stops being stubborn and changes his tactics is all we can do.

3 at the back could work although i think there are better formations but the issue is the tactics .
As for lvg not having players for his system, what is his system .
Maybe this is his system

The thing is if we sack Van Gaal what kind of signal does that give out to potential a replacement?

Moyes was handed a 6 year contract and was gone after 10 months. His career has stagnated since then and has only recently been given the opportunity to rebuild it at Sociedad who are far from a top team. Would a young upcoming manager be willing to risk his growing reputation on a job that won't give him time to put the building blocks in place? For example, why would Simeone leave Atletico, a club where he is admired and treated with respect for United who may hound him out if his football isn't attractive enough?

If we let LVG go (especially if he finishes top 4) would a highly respected manager with a cluster of trophies on his CV be willing to risk all that he has achieved on a club that won't give him time to build and put his own stamp on the team? Likewise for example, why would Pep leave Bayern for United if he isn't going to get the time for his style to be imprinted on the team?

If we sack LVG it opens up a whole new can of worms in terms of trying to get the right candidate in to take over. We are not Chelsea or City, we had a great man in charge for countless years and a turnover of two high calibre coaches in 24 months would be hurtful on the image of our great club.

Good points guys. I suppose it is easy for me to simply say sack him and not have a nailed on alternative, but fortunately its not my job to get these calls right. He shouldn't keep a job he is underperforming in just because an obvious candidate doesn't jump out at us.

The people involved in the due diligence should have a shortlist of replacements, people with the right ideas and the ability to implement them, that doesn't necessarily mean Klopp, Simeone or even Pep. We need to look at giving time to the right young manager who has a plan which is more in tune with what Man Utd stand for and is not so stuck in their ways that they won't tweek it if things aren't working.

At the moment almost any manager could have done just as well with this squad and funds, do we really want to give LVG more cash to burn when all we have is his narrow minded view that his approach will work? He even said today he is happy with how its going, how can he say that?

People laugh off Keane but he would be my call without knowing too much about who is about and interviewing them etc. Who could do well with Sunderland or Ipswich? He knows the club, he is strong, he is a winner and could become a great manager, but there will be many like him with maybe not as much "drama".

Athletico, Dortmund took on their managers by taking a chance, Barcelona do it all the time, we should do the same rather than a tried has been like LVG in my view. Just because it doesn't work for one guy at a certain club it can work at a different one.

I don't think Giggs has the backbone, but I would give a lot more time to a less experienced manager who is trying to progress things and learns from mistakes, not digs their heels in and plays what I consider Anti-Utd football.

You would hope that any manager would have enough confidence in his own ability and ambition to see that the man united job would be a great opportunity .
If not he prob isn't the right man for the job

Beast, what is United football? You have clearly stated what you think anti-Utd football is. I would like to hear what you think United football is?

@samthered

I know you addressed the question to beast, but to me, Manchester United football can be defined the Wayne Rooney goal in the 7-1 demolition of Roma.

Control, pace, one end of the pitch to the other in the blink of an eye and not allowing the opposition a moment's respite and consistently hammering away at them.

Playing to win, attacking teams, linking the play, players working as a team. Basically turning up thinking we are going to win, not hoping we nick a goal.

Another thing is thinking ahead. Under SAF players knew where to be 2-3 even 4 passes ahead, now everything is so slow, because players don't trust one another or know where they should be. That's what I mean by linking. It doesn't help having so few options as we progress down the pitch, due to our negative set-up.

Good example, Redfaith. That season, I thought we were brilliant. I loved the Rooney Saha combination up from.

Beast, pretty much the same as me. Problem is though, we haven't seen that type of football in a while.

I understand Beast's reservations about LVG's style so far. But LVG has got us into CL spot without hitting top form. We are also difficult to beat despite the three rubbish CB's we have. We need to give this man a chance for God's sake. 5 months in the job and we are ready to judge, sentence, and sack him. What a ridiculous state of affairs if we were to do that.
Give the guy a chance.

Samthered you make a good point about 1 defeat in 15 which on the face of it sounds good but you could go all season unbeaten and still get relegated if all you do is draw games i'm not saying this is the case with us just that your argument is flawed fans are annoyed because last season saw us playing football not to lose afters years of playing to win and unfortunately LvG has followed suit if he is only doing this to qualify for the champions league then fair enough but i personally don't get that impression

Red 79, I stand corrected. In the last 13 games, we have won 9, drawn 3 and lost 1.

Not bad if you ask me.

I can assure you we can be described in many ways but never thought a manager of our club would go on about Cambridge United being difficult to beat. We have the highest wage bill in the PL and a squad that most decent managers in Europe would be getting quite bit more and would love to manage.

This guy is unbelievable talking about CU in the 4th round of the FA cup as if we are in the semis of CL against Bayern or RM.

23 Jan 2015 15:20:31
I don't normally go for ex-players, but I'd love to have Gary Nev at the club in some capacity. Knows the game, spot on with his tactical analysis, experience with England, and a fan who loves the club as much as us. Strikes me as having a bit more vision and original thinking than Giggsy.

I think the manager is just showing them respect, GCU.

If he came out and said that we will smash them off the park, the guy would get hammered. I am pretty sure he will tell the players what he expects them to do.

Sam i am not saying the results have been bad overall like you have said over the last 13 games we have got some decent results but we can all admit some of those results were very lucky especially the arsenal and southampton games when we mugged both teams on another day we would of been given a hiding our tactics currently are very easy for ANY team to play against and i can see us drawing more games then we win if LvG persists with them

Red79, if we were easy to play against, we wouldn't have the record we currently have; and we would not have the third best defensive record in the PL.

I genuinely think that our lack of intent going forward has masked the good organisation we have showed at the back. IMO, we are anything but easy to play against from a defensive point of view. Going forward has been the problem when we have used the 3 CB system. We just don't have the players to properly implement that system IMO.

Sam

The last manager we had got blasted by many posters here for saying a fraction of that about much higher quality opposition. Nowadays it seems anything goes.

I would expect him to say we go there fully expecting to win.

23 Jan 2015 10:51:14
LVG has been trying to explain his decision to play the 3 at the back system to the media and quite frankly, has made it even worse. He knows that we create more chances with 4 at the back and a diamond in midfield, but since we are giving away a few chances too, it makes him twitch on the bench and nervous and he doesn't like that. So for more "balance" in the team we are playing the system that we are. Also he is playing Di Maria up front for more pace in the attacking positions and to stretch the opposition.

Now a few of these comments are a bit bizarre for me because :-

1. Apart from the freak capitulation at Leicester, we have defended just fine with 4 at the back. I'm "twitching" far more watching the 3-5-2 than the 4 at the back. We concede quite a few chances with 3 at the back as well by virtue of Rooney and Mata not being proper central midfielders and losing the ball. Also playing Carrick instead of Blind in front of the back 4 makes us more solid.

2. Di Maria's pace is completely useless as a striker since by the time he gets the ball he is nearer to the goal, with his back to it and up against big strong center backs and ends up losing it.

Why not instead play him and Januzaj out wide supporting Falcao up front? Surely that would "stretch the opposition" as Van Gaal wants to and also utilize Di Maria's pace and Januzaj's skill one against one on full backs? We also have excellent attacking full backs complement that in Shaw and Rafael.

3. We look far more "balanced" with 4 at the back. With 3 at the back we look completely defensive and out of balance. There isn't a player on the pitch who is comfortable with that system.

4. Most of our goals playing the 3-5-2 system have either come from a bit of luck / set pieces (Southampton away) or opposition making defensive errors (Liverpool home) or just being poor defensively and putting us under no pressure (Newcastle home).

The remaining times we have had to either had to change it to 4 at the back to score or lump it up to Fellaini.

We defend better because of sheer numbers at the back as we sit deep and in turn completely nullify our attack. In short, no balance.

To me, this feels like a manager who is too scared of losing rather than wanting to create chances, control the game IN THE OPPOSITION HALF and win like a big team should. It is all a bit confusing to me, because Van Gaal clearly understands the issues but is coming up with incredibly ridiculous solutions, something which is not expected from a manager of his experience. Even Daley Blind admitted that they didn't play great football with that system in the World Cup and that it was the team's togetherness that got them through.

I would love to hear what the posters who seem to be backing LVG have to say about this.

Lvgs quotes are on the team page .
Makes for strange reading

I think some of what he says gets a little bit lost in translation.

He basically said what most have said on here: He think three CB's gives us more defensive solidity. And he is probably right. That said, I think we could make a 4 man defence - and still play the attacking football - work if we were able to field a consistent back 4.

23 Jan 2015 11:40:07
The quotes are a little odd, do we not think any press conference quote from a master at manipulating the press should be taken with a pinch of salt though? In the latter years Fergie made some outrageous statements in press conferences and everybody got angry and it was all rubbish.

What is the value in LVG giving away all of his thoughts and saying what he really thinks in a press conference?

I find just listening and enjoying rather than analysing press conference quotes is the way to go but that's just me, each to their own.

I think the general rule is if it not what you want to hear, take it with a pinch of salt .
If it is what you want to hear it must be true.

In this case the comments tie in with what you see on the pitch imo

So when he says something that everyone fundamentally disagrees with, it is just "manipulating the media"? Rubbish, why would he need to manipulate anyone at this time, we all have eyes and he is saying what we all know?

Everyone has figured him out, there is nothing of significance lost in translation. He is simply attempting to defend his decisions, which everybody has a right to do. It is hard for him because yet again he is putting his own "twitching" ahead of what is best for the team. His own philosophy ahead of what is best for the club, his own favourites ahead of better players.

To do well in most things you often have to go through a pain barrier, it's quite clear LVG would rather feel all safe with his nil-nil and hope somebody pulls a rabbit out of a hat, than go through any form of distress.

He hasn't got the minerals for the job if you ask me, he is too afraid to change things and to think we called Moyes defensive!

GDS2,

You are clutching at straws there mate. Anyone who watched the press conference could see that LVG meant every word he said. He is always honest and straightforward with the press. If he doesn't want to answer he just says that he won't answer.

He isn't a Sir Alex or Mourinho who make the media dance to their tune and manipulate them.

23 Jan 2015 12:48:23
RF,

I think he is exactly that, he has had the media in the palm of his hands for a long time, he knows how to manipulate and his press conferences are entertaining as hell.

Find me a time where I have believed everything LVG has said in a press conference.

It appears to be the jred, Beast and REDFAITH Show on here at the moment, all posting and shouting down anyone with any optimistic positive thoughts, sure you guys are enjoying yourself but it is getting a little tedious.

@GDS2

I don't know about jred and Beast, but i certainly don't enjoy admitting that the team I support is playing poorly, that its manager isn't playing the right tactics.

Optimism and positivity is one thing, and just being completely blind to what is happening and saying everything is fine is completely another. In the past I have defended the indefensible in Cleverley and even Anderson! I'm sure you remember. Supported Carrick through the times he was witchhunted, Sir Alex when his transfer strategy was questioned and I gave Moyes the benefit of the doubt because I knew it wasn't just him to blame but the squad we had was not up to standard and we had messed up in the transfer market and failed to deliver his targets in the summer.

But there is a line, and I have said this before. LVG has a great squad, top players and all the ingredients to play the way a top team should be playing, he comes with the reputation of being an arrogant winner, yet I don't see little improvement after massive summer spending. Most of the team's problems this season are created by his tactics and a few due to injuries (I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there).

I am optimistic that he will change though, he has to or we won't finish in the top 4 and he will be gone. If we fall out of the top 4 in the next couple of weeks, I think that might give him the kick up the backside a little bit to look to what he has been doing and change, because he won't have any option but to attack.


I believe we have the squad to finish 3rd and I still believe we will do that. There is no need to point out names and call people out about being pessimists though. Some are just not as forgiving and ignorant of the problems. That is what this page is for anyway, to have a healthy debate and exchange of different opinions.

23 Jan 2015 13:37:13
I've given up posting a positive opinion mate lol, it just gets swallowed up with the same responses all the time.

See u in July.

Redfaith, agree with you, but Shaw has been injured a lot of the season and Rafael. The less said the better, he plays one game and misses ten, so we cannot reply on him at all.
We nee to move for a RB before a CB in my opinion. I would offer Southampton whatever it takes to get Clyne as he is very reliable, can play the overlap and is a superb reader of the game.

Redfaith
Agree 100%

He (LvG) simply doesn't trust the CB's to play a 442 diamond. The current CB's make him nervous. So he believes three is safer than two which inevitably means sacrificing an attacking player for a defensive player. It does seem he lacks trust in the side. I guess Clyne and Hummels could mean moving to a 442 diamond, but until then it's going to be a 532.

NoMid, I agree, Clyne and Hummels for me would make a massive difference. Having a beast/leader like Hummels sorting the defence would improve the others mentally too. Rafael is unreliable both because of his injuries and his rashness. Clyne matches him in all departments and has the brain to go with it. Hummels is experienced, he's captain material and his presence in the defence would have a massive influence on the other defenders. Clyne, Jones, Hummels and Shaw could become a very good back four if Jones and Shaw could stay fit. Clyne and Hummels for me would be two top notch signings.

23 Jan 2015 16:44:02
Redfaith,

I quote 'being completely blind to what is happening and saying everything is fine'.

I don't really think anybody is doing that, but I keep being told that we are. I have said many times I think most people are giving LVG a chance and are 50/50, but if anybody says anything positive they are shouted down. It is getting a bit ridiculous.

Gds
Check out some of shappy posts.


Its not about being positive or negative its about given an opinion and discussing it .

23 Jan 2015 07:38:49
Shappy

We all know Beast is over egging the situation and is at the extreme end of the negative view. You seem to be taking a completely opposite position.

You mention all the signings: I agree Hererra is excellent but he doesn't seem to be able to get in the team. ADM is a great player but LVG is obsessed with playing him up front when we would get far more impact playing him wide or through the centre. Shaw has had some stick from LVG and I'm yet to be convinced he rates him. Blind is multi functional and I like him but he's not going to change a game. I also don't think LVG wanted Falcao. Woodward has been obsessed with 'stellar' names and as a cheap gamble, I suspect LVG simply agreed.mmadd to this we have Rooney playing in midfield (while Hererra is on the bench) and it is reasonable for us to question his thinking.

As for the comparison with last year, at this stage we are no better off - our improved league position is down to others doing worse than last year.

I am not a neg head or suggesting we sack him but as each game comes and goes I wonder about his thinking. Apparently he thinks criticism of his formation is 'ridiculous'? If everyone is fit we need to play a back 4, play people in their best positions, and concentrate on hurting our opponents instead of worrying about them hurting us.

AJH,
Just to make sure i understood you well; You aren't praising LvG as there is nothing to praise nor are you calling for his head even though in your opinion, his performance points in that direction. You are just wondering why he is persisting with a seemingly failing "philosophy"?
I for one look forward to Shappy's posts because they give logical hope. I am sure that not 1 fan can say they are 100% happy with our performance, but many of us are happier this season than we were last season.

Well said AJH. For most of us it isn't a van Gaal out campaign, and we want to give him time to implement his ideas. But when his ideas are so clearly at odds with the squad we have and, most importantly, just aren't working it's hard not to question the direction he is taking us. The fact that his response to criticism is - you stupid, me van Gaal, me always right - just adds to peoples' concerns. Ego is fine once it is tempered by pragmatism. Pragmatism means making the best out of what you have. Van Gaal simply isn't doing this.

23 Jan 2015 08:23:49
AJH our improved league position is down to DDG.

It does make you consider (in hindsight of course) if Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton were all firing this year and if Moyes's performances matched LVGs at this time last season would he have even made it to the end of the campaign?

23 Jan 2015 09:09:28
MB,

Why, where was DDG last season?

GDS2 - DDG roughly this time last season was letting in a Phil Bardsley attempt to give Sunderland the chance of knocking us out of the League Cup!

All who are bothered - The difference this season is our main opposition for CL have under performed (so far but they are coming fast) and DDG has over performed. LVG should be thankful for this, because we have not improved collectively, in fact I think we lack even more identity now which seems ridiculous.

Many people were calling for Moyes's head now or were close to it, the only difference with LVG is his CV (which under closer inspection is not as good as people think it is) and our fans are more desperate. We also don't want to turn into a club that sacks managers every season, however that shouldn't stop you from doing what is right. LVG is benefiting from our desperation and worry about being the next Chelsea/Madrid manager wise.

Book your pilot lessons up soon is my advice, companies will start increasing the prices if performances and decision making continues down this road - I just hope it isn't too late!

If I gave a a puzzle with half the pieces missing could you make it look like it does on the front of the box?

I may have gone a bit Cantona on you there but I think it is a good analogy of our situation.

We have key elements of the team LvG wants to build missing, so the current incarnation is nothing like what the finished product will look like.

At the moment we are trying to live in our new house before the builders have finished and then complaining that there is no roof or windows and we are getting cold and rained on.

Does that mean that once the builders have finished it will be a rubbish house? We don't know, but we have to wait until they've finish before we can judge.

I mentioned the signings as one of Beasts problems seemed to be that we have signed a load of rubbish players or players that another manager wouldn't be able to use.

That is a ridiculous statement, Shaw, Herrera, Di Maria are great players, Rojo and Blind are great squad players with potential to be maybe more. And Flacao is here on a short term deal and if he doesn't fit another managers plans? Well he won't be here by that time.

You say we are no better off than this time last year, you aren't looking at the bigger picture.

Does the team look more confident? Is the squad happier and more settled? Have we signed better players and moved on players who are not good enough?

If you were a manager would you rather take over this group of players or the group LvG took over?

And finally at this stage last season it didn't look like we had a chance of 4th place, yet now we have more than a chance. You can point to other teams not being as good as they were last season such as Everton and Liverpool, but Spurs and Arsenal are about the same as last year. Both had a poor spells during the season. But like wise Chelsea are stronger this year, City are just as strong. Southampton and West Ham are playing much better and even Newcastle had a good run.

This season the difference is the gap between the bottom and middle half teams has closed, at this point last season there were 5 teams drifting away at the bottom of the league this season no team up to 10th is really safe yet. That has resulted in the teams in the middle third of the league dropping unexpected points.

So I don't buy this the league is weaker this year, in fact with the more compressed points between the teams I think this season the league is stronger than last year.

I'm not saying LvG is the right man for the job, just that we need to give him the time to finish his project before we decide if its good enough. We have had progress under him, and I along with many of us I suspect feel much more confident than we did last season, that shows we have made progress.

23 Jan 2015 10:07:46
LVG has played Di Maria as a second striker twice and now he is obsessed with it apparently?!?!

23 Jan 2015 10:13:13
GDS mate DDG has been in much better form this season and we would've conceded much more had he not been in such kind of a form.

Shappy
What a load of twaddle again.

This group of players are under performing you can continue to make all the excuses you want but .
Never mind we need to buy x y and z we actual have after spending close to 250 mill in18 month and the higest wage bill in tje league a very good squad .

You must think koeman is a god if you lvg is doing well

If you were a manager would you rather take over this group of players or the group LvG took over?
Shappy

Well after buying blind, rojo, di maria, falcao etc i think the answear is yes.
It also shows what a better squad lvg has compared to last season

And maybe lvG and his staff have managed to bring the best out of DdG! let's not overlook that one. DdG didn't wake up one morning being incredible.

Mbd
He has got better and better every season.
The lad has worked hard on his game so credit where its due

See this is the big problem, it isn't a puzzle, it's a job. And the aim of the job is to finish with as much points at the end of the current season as possible. Yes there has to be an element of long term planning, but that must be secondary to the immediate goal of achieving the most with what you have got.

If we contrast Fergie in his pomp with van Gaal you see what I mean. Fergie starts with the clear goal of winning. So he starts with the question what can I do to give my current team the best chance of winning? He is also thinking about what he can do to give the club a better chance of winning in the future, but his primary concern is winning right now because he knows that managers are, rightly, judged on results. In other words, Fergie saw football as a simple game: do what you can to win with the team you currently have.

Van Gaal starts from an ideal: if I had everything I wanted how would my team play in an ideal world? He is, admittedly, willing to sacrifice the short term goal of winning in pursuit of his ideal vision. This means he starts with a philosophy and puts winning on hold in an attempt to better achieve this philosophy. In other words, he doesn't try to make the best with what he currently has because he sees this as counterproductive to his long term ideal. The problem with this long term approach is that it begins from the unflinching belief that van Gaal is right and his ideal can be achieved. In turn, this requires blind support of van Gaal's vision, from supporters and the board. For van Gaal football is complicated: you don't start with what you have but where you want to eventually end up, so you need a clear understanding of what your philosophy is and how it can be achieved over the course of a number of years. It, therefore, demands that the manager predict the future: that he knows how to implement his philosophy, the players who need to come in, and that it will ultimately work.

For me van Gaal's approach is driven by unchecked ego. It basically asks a club to fully trust in his methods, buy in players that fit his approach, and ignore the immediate performances and results simply because van Gaal says that it will all work out for the best. Complete madness if you ask me.

Danny I honestly believe you have just summed up the mentality of both modern day managers and boardroom directors. Instead of living for today it's all about planning for tomorrow.

23 Jan 2015 11:12:38
Shappy, I don't think anyone has a problem with the players that were bought. It's how they're being utilised. Or not, as the case may be.

I think for once Shappy I do not agree with you.

We have made some advancements this year but I do NOT think that's down to LVG. You mentioned the squad seeming happier and more settled, and better players being signed.

In relation to the squad seeming more confident its down to time and the players realizing they have quality and a good team. To put that down to LVG is absurd when all he seems to do is come out and be super critical of players e.g. Shaw and Falcao. If anything he is detrimental to their confidence of the players.

Better players being signed is down to Mr Woodward. Players like Shaw and Herrera were signed very early in LVG's reign and I am sure they were "unofficial" United players before he took over. We wanted a big name which is why Falcao was added, LVG clearly doesn't rate him so why agree to him being here? Clearly not an LVG signing. I would say his signings were Blind and Di Maria, Blind his utility player and Di Maria effectively occupying the same role Robben occupied in the Dutch national. Rojo was signed after the world cup and we clearly needed defenders. LVG seems undecided on him still as if he really wanted him he would be in the 1st team every match day. So to say the quality players we brought in were all down to him is again over doing it.

The squad seeming happier is again down to other factors. We are in a better position this year. There are more Spanish speaking players and thus some players in the squad would naturally feel more comfortable.

Obviously I am not completely discrediting him, I am sure he has had some influence in these things.

In my opinion he more problems to the table more than solutions. His ego and stubbornness have already hampered us some what this season and to ignore that fact would be very foolish.

Take Stoke and Tony Pulis for example. He fell out with the squad as he wanted them to play a certain way which the squad and players were unhappy with. He was sacked because he lost the dressing room and came to words with some of the players.

LVG's man management is clearly lacking. He doesn't seem to be interested in making points to the players during the match, which can change a game. His training methods clearly generate more injuries than is necessary and from what I understand he does not create individual training programs for individual players, in this day and age, it is absurd. Di Maria should not be on the same program as Fellaini

I do agree with you in saying it is a long project and we can't judge him on it just yet, but as fans we can not speculate as to weather his project WILL be a success. We can only judge on what we have seen as of yet.

We have the players to play attractive, attacking football. We have the players to succeed. Why do we need a be a new project or have a new philosophy. Was the Manchester united philosophy of attacking football not working?

Why not make a few additions and play to our strengths. I know that view is very simplistic, may be even childish to some.

As i have said previously we need to play to OUR strengths and put opposition to the sword. Not focus on their strengths and how to avoid defeat.

In my opinion he is not the man for the job and I do foresee a change in the summer in terms of management. But I will stand by him and support him in his management and endeavors with the team for as long as he is the manager of the club I love.

Perfect again Danny.

Football is now a business more than a sport, but for fans football is a sport only! LVG could be Warren Buffet or he could be Bernie Madoff, I know who I think he will be come the end, but only because what I am seeing at the moment is horrible and frankly I care more about football than I do about the bank balance of Shareholders.