Manchester United Banter Archive July 23 2018

23 Jul 2018 20:27:58
With Valencia being injured ( don't think he be out for too long tho) and dalot out until September, who would give TMF a run of games at right back at the start off the season. Played well at palace last year and even Sane said he was the toughest player who went up against last year. I hope Jose goes into the season with him, I think he hit the ground running :-) .
And 1 last thing on here, let's hear some more positive post about the upcoming season. We are UNITED!

23 Jul 2018 21:04:54
Prob pull the plug on Darmian transfer now.

24 Jul 2018 04:28:01
Tfm although there are rumours he wants away.

23 Jul 2018 19:06:28
I know this is highly controversial, but I’d like to simply pose the question and field your opinions.
Not sure either what the correct answer is:

Is it time to part with Jose?

He is his miserable self already in pre-season. He talks about pre season being the time to motivate the players and instead he moans about everything, especially the quality of his players, hardly motivating, is it?
He is not being backed by the board apparently.
Mostly due to the fact he is looking to sign 29 year olds at the height of their value.

But this is, at least partially, due to the fact he was told it‘s last chance saloon now.
Why would he build for the future instead of looking for the immediate need if your job is on the line.
Seems like he is backed into a corner here.

Just to name a few of the issues there seem to exist:
Martial: Jose wants him gone - the board doesn’t trust his judgement
Toby and Sandro: Jose wants them in - the board feels they are too old
Ribalta: Scouts leaves die to not feeling taken serious, apparently. No clue whether by the board or Jose
Shaw: Jose wants him gone - the board still hope he turns out a shrewd signing
Style: Jose is pragmatic - Clubs heritage is different - certain players would rather fit the heritage then the current style, either back the manager and embrace his style or change now while the playing staff somehow fits the old style?

I don’t see how this can work out positively in the end, but it is a stupid moment to change managers as well.

Thanks for your opinions.

23 Jul 2018 19:29:51
Spurs are wanting 80 mil for a 29 year old cb .
He is a good player but that's ridiculous.
Especially after we have just bought lindelof and bailly

Maybe Jose is the wrong man for the club, most United fans want to see good attacking footy a team that is built for the future where talents like pogba martial can flourish .

It's Jose 3rd season just look how that has ended in the past.

23 Jul 2018 19:36:33
Can’t stand the man. He’s well past his sell by date. All I want is some attacking football, not much to ask.

23 Jul 2018 19:40:28
Evening guys, I only joined the site a few months back but from reading all the posts it's obvious to me that we're a deeply divided bunch. Mourinho polarises opinion but I fear our problems run deeper than just a manager.

In this post Fergi vacuum the Club has lacked real courage and leadership at board level and demonstrated a clear lack of vision and naivety.

From reading all the posts on this site it appears to me that most fans share the same ideology and philosophy. These are the foundations which we're laid bare well over 60 years ago by the great Busby babes. The philosophy that transformed the Club from a Northern powerhouse to the envy of Europe. The courage and bravery of a man with daring ambition and vision to take the Club further than just the shores of this country. He laid the foundations for everything we are today.

What we all crave is a commitment to attractive, entertaining, attacking football filled with drama and excitement. An emphasis on developing our own players and giving youth a chance. We might not always succeed, there may be periods of frustration and failure but this philosophy should remain constant and consistent. Undiminished by time and circumstance.

This brings me back full circle to our current owners, board and manager! Who actually runs our Club? What vision do the owners have? What is their plan?

From the Glazers perspective I can't imagine that they're to concerned with the playing side of things but they aren't stupid enough to realise how this may impact on the Club. Woodward now appears to be the custodian, the man in charge, but what's his vision and philosophy?

Then we have Mourinho, a giant manager with an even bigger ego. He only wants to win and he doesn't care how. He doesn't care about entertainment or excitement. He's not concerned about age or giving chances. He doesn't care about how much it costs or the future of the Club only securing his own legacy before he inevitably moves onto his next challenge. Is this philosophy shared by our owners or Mr Woodward?

Well here's the rub. Should the Club ship out young, exciting, promising players, ones which they have invested heavily to bring to the Club in the first place so the manager can replace them with yet more expensive, experienced, players with little possibility of sell on value and no guarantee of success? My suspicion all along has been the Glazers are prepared to invest just enough to keep us in their panacea of the top 4. Winning would be nice but does it make sense to re invest millions chasing success with little guarantee whilst risking the finances of the Club and trimming profit margins? If this is the case then they have gravely underestimated Mourinho.

I think Mourinho may just be finding himself embroiled in the politics of a Club without a clear vision or recognised leader. In some respects he may find himself a victim of his own success and now some modicum of stability has been restored the purse strings predictably tightened. Do they really want to challenge City and return us to the pinnacle of European football?

Mourinho is not the type of manager to maintain the status quo putting the Club at risk of a power struggle between an ambitious manager and a regime seemingly more interested in profit margins, sponsorship and turnover rather than success on the pitch. If the books look good does it matter what happens on the pitch?

Mourinho will not settle for second best and whatever you think about him I think we can all take some comfort from that. Maybe his legacy might just be to show the Glazers for what they truly are? It's no coincidence to me that this window might represent the lowest investment in the team for a number of years just as we've established ourselves back into the top 4. I guess this will all unravel sooner rather than later and we'll have our answer.

Of course this could just be a load of bull**** supposition but thanks for those that took the time to read I appreciate it was a long one!

23 Jul 2018 19:47:06
short answer, Yes.

23 Jul 2018 20:13:48
Great post dlib.
I agree with lots of that.

Im all for improving players but imo the board have got to make up their mind either back the manager completely or if they believe in the players such as pogba shaw jones rojo mata valencia young fellaini and martial among others and want to keep them then sack the manager now. That way it will be less messy and there is less risk.
They backed some of these players and got rid of moyes they backed more of these players and got rid of lvg is it time to back these players and get rid of jose?
That's what they have to decide.
Option 3 is just do nothing and see what happens. That's the biggest risk of all imo.
It is joses job to get the best from the players to keep them happy and motivated. To give them confidence to show them he believes in them etc etc.
But it is the boards job to motivate jose to give him backing to show their belief in him to give him the tools he says needs to do his job.

As a result of the board failing to to all the above for the manager he is shiwing his obvious displeasure in his demeanour and that transe ds in his interviews and to some of the players. If the club can't keep tje manager relatively happy you won't have a happy team below him.

23 Jul 2018 20:15:25
Dlib, i read your post and it is excellent. I'm not a Mourinho fan. I think his demeanour and his actions have been arrogant in some instances. In other instances, his stubborness, is putting players United careers at risk to the detriment of our great club.
Once he picks a fight with a player, that's the end of the road for the player.
I'm particularly worried that the likes of Martial, Pogba, Bailly will be pushed out of the door. This will be an absolute disaster for the club.
But i also inderstand and agree on your reservations towards the Glazers and Woodward, and the obvious lack of leadership on the footballing side of things. Like you, i have mentioned the problem we have with the Glazers and their lack of interest to all things football. There seems to be an attitude that as long as the money is rolling in, then the status quo can be maintained. But their business model is flawed, as the fans the club are trying to attract in America, India, China, far east countries, have no affiliation to the club at the start. They are attracted to the style of football and to the on field success, and then they will swear their allegiance to the cause. If we continue playing dull football and under investing in the footballing side, then the new fans will opt to support Real, Barca, Liverpool, City instead. You only need to walk the streets of Beijing, Bangkok, Mumbai to see this is already happening. Fergie brought us success and coupled it with exciting football which brought us hundereds of thousands of new followers. Unfortunately, the opposite can easily materialize if we don't show ambition and excitement on the playing field.
The Glazers can ignore this at theor peril, but the world is a funny place these days, and like you, i can see trouble ahead, not only for Mourinho but for our money loving owners.
Great post and i enjoyed reading it.

23 Jul 2018 20:26:45
I'm a Liverpool fan but I enjoyed that read DLIB.

I'm hoping for utd to be competitive this season along with us and city to make it an exciting finish.

23 Jul 2018 20:28:59
DLIB fantastic post that mate.

24 Jul 2018 08:14:37
DLIB, great post, made a lot of sense.

AAA - I don't understand your point about the Club wanting to expand its fanbase to other countries. That's how they build one and each and every club is doing it. A lot of these Clubs run their football academies in countries like India, Middle-Eastern Countries and other South-East Asian countries as well. What do you think the purpose of that is? Is it really to teach the youth how to play the way these clubs play? or is to expand its market and reach newer audiences. My answer is the latter, solely because I work closely with a Club and now an association that has grassroots football development academies. They earn tonnes of money from these deals and while that money might not directly impact any transfers, that does add up to the revenue generation and in turn, leads to a more larger fanbase creation.

You can never force any person to support any club, he / she can support Madrid, Barcelona even Liverpool (although they have won nothing in the recent past) and City. But is your concern genuinely about the number of people not supporting United? and do you think this is because of the owners investing in the business side of the club and not the footballing side? I'd rather have fans and followers who love the club because of what the club is, rather than what is the club is winning (that's typical fanboy behaviour) .

The bigger question, perhaps, is that what are the owners doing? And what is Mou doing? Is it really that shambolic that we can't get our transfer in order? We want three players who are on our immediate shortlist - Bale, Alderwerield and Sandro. Do these players want to move? In Toby's case, does Levy really want to sell him to a rival? Even if Spurs don't compare to us, in his mind we are still his rivals? Maybe that's why the inflated price? Even if the Glazers or Woodward only care about the business side of things, I'm sure they won't be held ransom by Levy who always seems to demand over-the-top prices for his players? Coming to Bale, we are all divided on whether we want him or not, another question is, with the new manager coming in, and Ronaldo obviously going out, does he want to move now? Or does he want to stay one more year and see what he can do? Even if we give RM 200 Million pounds for Bale and he doesn't want to leave, we can't do much about it. Now that is not the fault of the owners or the manager. Sandro is a difficult one, I thought by now we would have had him, considering it was during the end of last season of after the end of the season that we were heavily linked with him? Have the owners got cold feet and now they don't want to spend the money? Or has Mou changed his mind? No one knows, maybe the Eds know and they can share what they know.

Of course, I'm not defending the owners and neither am I defending Mou, I'm just trying to be a little more optimistic about the new season, because that's what we want and that's what we should do. If Mou goes, then Mou goes. His 3rd season syndrome might hit us, and might not. We can't say much. All we can hope is that the damage can be limited and the guy who ends up replacing him is a well-thought of replacement. Not a stop-gap one.

Thanks.

23 Jul 2018 18:14:00
What is this I'm reading about Ribalta leaving for Zenith?

Just when you thought it couldn't get worse.

23 Jul 2018 19:04:05
I've heard that the chef at Carrington has been offered the head chef position at the Lowry Hotel. If the club allows this to happen I might have to pack it in with them.

24 Jul 2018 09:23:36
Nathaniel that is a very naive reply. A business is only as good as its staff. Staff of all levels seem to be wanting out. It’s a big concern, whether it is a good player or a good scout.

23 Jul 2018 16:40:06
I have been very critical of Woody over the years, but it can't be easy convincing players to come to Utd at the moment, or should I say the right type of players. If you take away the history (which mostly only we care about), then playing in a tedious system/ style, for a moody manager who seems pretty erratic from an outside perspective, watching most new signings stall or be dealt with terribly - hardly an easy sell no matter how much money you throw at the problem. Granted if it works it could be an amazing career move, but odds are more likely that a move to Utd hurts rather than helps a career at the moment.

Sad but true if you look at the evidence.

I used to think it would be easy to convince players to join Utd, but even SAF struggled toward the end (and during the great times even when you think of some of the great players that rejected us for on paper worse alternatives), so imagine what an undertaking Woody has now, even with his 'think of a number now treble it' cheque book!

Just a thought, which in all honesty I hadn't even considered too much until now.

23 Jul 2018 17:18:02
I think you have a point in as much as Martial wanting out and in the last 2-3 hours more and more outlets reporting Pogba wants out for sure- as ED 02 said . the mirror even saying Raiola was in talks with Barcelona but they broke down .

This never reflects well on the club or manager - people will side with Martial/ Pogba/ Miki . then all of a sudden its "who wants to risk going to United" .

23 Jul 2018 17:48:38
Yeah, also Shaw, Schneiderlin, Schweiny, Miki, Sanchez, Lindelof, Darmian, ADM, Depay, Falcao - all off the top of my head. Doubt any of them send out a 'Man Utd is the place to be' message to outsiders looking in. If Herrera, Fellaini and Mata weren't such nice guys I'm sure they would be causing a stink as well.

There are exceptions, but as I say if you are offered the chance to sign for Utd or another top club the chances are I would choose the alternative given the recent history of our ruination of players happyness and performance levels.

23 Jul 2018 18:00:46
Hard to watch falcao at Monaco and not think what if .
I would of loved to see him do that in a United shirt .

23 Jul 2018 18:32:13
Scary to think we could all be watching Martial and Pogba soon in another shirt and thinking what if
Just like Chelsea fans probably watch De Bruyne, Salah and Lukaku and think what if.

23 Jul 2018 18:32:46
Rubbish Beast. This isn't on Jose its on Woodward. They won't dig into there pockets.

Jred, Falcao can play well in the French league as that's his level. The premier league is too physical and tight for him.

23 Jul 2018 19:43:22
FZZ - The club dipped into their pockets to pay over the odds for most of the players I listed!

We have spent a fortune in recent years on players, they have just not worked for the most part. A few fail, but to have so many fail there is a bigger issue at play.

23 Jul 2018 19:43:09
united will always be able to attract players.

even the later stages of SAF we got RVP from arsenal.

i think the biggest difference for me is that SAF was a proper coach, he could make the most average player look class so he never really needed to over spend.

when you look back on united teams of the past i sometimes think how did we win games with players like cleverly and oshea in midfiled.

that was just the way fergie was, one of a kind.

i just think our extremely over spending in the last 5 years has had a knock on effect we have over paid anbd over spent, add to the fact players who we have bought not all of them have not lived up to the plate.

i honestly don't think we need massive changes just a few to add to what we have.

yeah we have 2 weeks left of the window, not ideal to still be trying to buy players but regardless of the team come the 1st game i will stick by them all.

have a little faith.

24 Jul 2018 07:30:50
SAF wasn’t a coach, he was a Manager, a motivator, a great man Manager. Not sure he did much coaching for many years, he recruited others to do that. What he was able t do was wrong every possible ounce of talent and a ability from what he had.

{Ed001's Note - you are right AJH, Fergie was more akin to a modern DoF than a head coach. He didn't often even oversee training, he wasn't the only one either, most of those older time managers would not do the coaching. One of his former players said of 'Arry Redknapp that the only time he would be seen near the training ground was if TV cameras were around. There are many stories about how Bob Paisley would be in his portacabin at Melwood doing paperwork during training (or checking the racing results).

The only thing that is worrying about that is that those old time managers are the ones that set up the FA's coaching courses, in return for being awarded the badges needed to manage in the Premier League. So the FA coaching badges are set by managers who were not coaches. Makes you wonder about their legitimacy as a qualification.}

23 Jul 2018 12:51:18
Read somewhere today that Uniteds transfer business could be done. Surley not!? I know it's a difficult qestion to answer but do you expect many more arrivals and if so what positions are primary. Lb, Cb, and Rw were the 3 suggested but i'd happily take 2 of the 3 now. Thanks as always.

23 Jul 2018 12:56:24
Well if (and its a big if) :

1.) Mourinho is happy with shaw and young at lb and
2.) we need to offload a cb before we get one in and we are unable to offload one and
3.) willian goes to Barcelona and bale stays in madrid.

Seems conceivable we don't do any more business.

23 Jul 2018 13:05:17
Joses comments suggest the ball is firmly in Woodwards court.

“One thing is what I want and another thing is what is going to happen. ”.

23 Jul 2018 14:33:44
By that account DSG, it seems conceivable that we struggle to compete with City, Jose throws a strop and blames the owners, he quits/ is fired, we bring in another manager and start again.

23 Jul 2018 14:40:57
Danny, that scenario seems very plausible to me.

23 Jul 2018 17:03:12
Well there's a manager available used to getting 4th on peanuts.

23 Jul 2018 19:11:05
That sounds great to me Danny.

23 Jul 2018 09:09:13
Living in a world in which EVERTON are about smash their transfer record and get Richarlison for 50m, West Ham 40m on Anderson yet here we are, penny pinching on Alex Sandro, one of the best LB's out there. Is it really Jose's fault because the owners and board are so f*****g incompetent?

23 Jul 2018 09:54:09
Maybe the board expect Jose to get the best out of Luke Shaw who was a record signing for a teenager, a player Jose wanted while at Chelsea.

With Carrick retiring and Young soon to be gone. Plus question marks over Jones and Smalling maybe we need to try and get the best out of one of the few British lads remaining.

Incedently some press outlets are reporting that Mourinho wants to abandon attempts too sign a full back so the club can focus on bringing in a centre back.

Which in itself is a poor move. We already have Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Tuanzebe and TFM who can play at CB. Plus the 65m duo of Bailly and Lindelof, both of which were signed by Mourinho himself.

That could suggest that maybe Mourinho doesn't make the best signings. This could be highlighted further when you consider that both Zlatan and Mkhitaryan have already left. Mourinho is also happy to let Pogba leave. And Sanchez has yet to prove his worth. That's six of the 8 players Mourinho has signed previous to the current transfer window that apparently have either been poor or questionable. Or 75% of his signings.

Maybe that's why the board are not so forthcoming with blank cheques this summer.

23 Jul 2018 10:12:58
The best out of Luke Shaw? Seem's like your pinning the blame on Jose there. Every manager Shaw has played under has questioned his commitment and attitude, also gets out of shape when the season actually starts, enough is enough, get rid i say, no point putting your trust in a LB who you can't rely on, rather play Young. Also, the media say we are interested in Maguire, not Ed002 so i know who to believe.

{Ed002's Note - In terms of where there has been interest, Alderweireld is aging and the asking price is way beyond what most would consider reasonable. Milan paid too much for a then aging Leonardo Bonucci but will sell if they can make a profit on him - and that makes him tough to sell. Raphael Varane can likely be scratched from the list now. Alessio Romagnoli could be priced out of a move - Manchester United have already had an offer rejected and Milan will only look to sell if they still need money for transfers late in the window - and that won't suit the English sides. I am not aware of any approach for Maguire from Manchester United at this time.}

23 Jul 2018 10:46:32
I agree with the first half of you comment Shappy, the 2nd part though I find a bit hard to swallow. If we start believing the press outlets then we would have as well signed every half decent player around. And even if we were to sign a CB, surely it will be as replacement for one of Smalling, Rojo or Jones. Also, We all knew Zlatan will leave. U are right about Mhki but he did facilitate the Sanchez move; and considering that he hadn't had a decent break from football since 2013, he may have been fatigued and it is understandable that he needed time to settle into a new club. And to be fair, he did not only clear out some 'fringe' players but we got quite some value for them. So the board shouldn't be worried.

23 Jul 2018 11:05:10
Yes those managers have questioned Shaw's attitude, but they've also found a way to get him playing well. Under Poch he was in the PFA team of the year and LvG had him playing great before his injury, only 8 games of course but that's around the same amount of football he's had since.

We all know that we need to strengthen several positions and that the club can't just throw silly money around anymore. It's entirely possible that we just can't afford to buy one. If that's the case Jose should do his job and get the player he has at LB playing well. Obviously people will see this and say it's all on Shaw and he should grow up, Jose is completely right to give up on him. But there's clearly a player in there, that both Poch and LvG (briefly on the latter) tapped in to. It's Jose's job to get the best out of Manchester United's players, but I don't think he sees it that way.

23 Jul 2018 11:02:46
Thanks Ed002. Hopefully we don't approach Maguire aswell.

23 Jul 2018 11:45:56
When the owners and manager are not on the same wavelength then it is time to part ways.

23 Jul 2018 12:53:27
Its a combination of the lot. The glazers are tight, we know this. They only loosened up when we started dropping out of the top 4. We know Woodward's incompetent. He's a bean counter too obsessed with saving 1% of a transfer fee, making galactico signings to sell pap, or setting up obscure partnerships deals to bring in the $$$. What next an official deal with Foo Yuk, 3rd best Siamese vodka? If they paid enough Woody would do it. Add to that he appointed a manager to get results. A manager that as we all know achieves those results in a certain style with a certain type of player. If he was a football man he'd have known that before appointing him. Jose should be doing better with what he has? Didn't he do that last season? After all according to half this site most of the squads crap. So wasn't 2nd overachieving? If (when) Jose gets sacked, walks out whatever surely Woodward has to go to. He keeps picking the managers and then keeps failing to sign their targets.

23 Jul 2018 13:45:00
If Ed002 doesn’t connect us to Maguire, then it’s very unlikely, know who I put my faith in for info, dunno how Ed gets to know what’s going on, must have some senior club people as drinking buddies!

23 Jul 2018 06:47:55
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 23rd July 2018

23 Jul 2018 09:28:00
Have you heard what Uli Hoeness has just come out and said Ed? Bloody hell, definitely bitter Ozil carried on winning German POTY over his Bayern players, i wish he proves them wrong somehow, can't these tw**s be held responsible (legally) for Ozil's treatment? Its so bloody obvious why they're doing it aswell.

{Ed001's Note - I just don't understand why they are so bitter about him? He has done well for Germany, they should be grateful.}

23 Jul 2018 09:38:23
If he had German ancestry this whole saga would actually be unheard of. The only top German player not to play for Bayern, wonder why. 🤔.

{Ed001's Note - it does smack of racism.}

23 Jul 2018 10:17:45
Dont UEFA get players to hold the flag before CL games which says 'NO TO RACISM', ironically, i wouldn't be surprised if they don't do anything about this whole situation. But would love it if them racists get held responsible with a public apology at the very least.

23 Jul 2018 11:08:08
Its absolutely disgusting behaviour.

23 Jul 2018 11:11:45
Good God! I saw the original headline and thought it was fan related abuse, which he's copped a lot of. I didn't know it was his own FA! Outrageous.

{Ed001's Note - it was all sorts of people mate. It is sickening how he has been treated.}

23 Jul 2018 12:38:21
Never mind the rest of the squad flopped. He created plenty of chances. No one finished them.

{Ed001's Note - yet he is still always the one who gets the blame, for Germany and Arsenal.}

23 Jul 2018 13:02:05
Obviously what the German higher ups are doing is not right to single out Ozil in this case. But I do however think what Ozil did (posing for photos with the Turkish president) was naive on his part and shouldn't have done if he didn't want any backlash.

Plus politics and sports don't mix well.

23 Jul 2018 16:41:22
I think uli's response illustrated his point.

Fair play to ozil calling it out.

23 Jul 2018 00:11:36
San Jose observations:

Back 4 - I would like to see Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe in some more difficult tests. So far they have done well, but not been tested enough. Shaw, to me, is limited offensively. We know he can run with the ball, but he doesn't get wide at times and demand the ball like he should. Too passive at times, just walking and waiting for the pass to go to someone else.

MF - Pereira was excellent tonight. I admit I was critical of him the first game, but he worked hard and passed the ball very well tonight. Herrera improved as well, a good moments of creativity. McTominay has looked rather limited in both games, but he does play with a good attitude.

Up front - Martial is the story tonight. No presence at center forward, and he did not play with much intensity on the wing either. I would not be surprised if he is sold. Shame, because he is loaded with talent.

We have not looked inspiring at all in two games. One goal in two games, one shot tonight, a header from McTominay. Granted, it is preseason, and post-World Cup. But Mourinho does nothing in the match but sit and watch. Hope we will see something more from the team on Wednesday vs Milan.

23 Jul 2018 00:43:25
ANDREA Pereira played well tonight. 18yr old Dutch kid proved Jose right as he was far too easily knocked off RH ball. He will not prosper in the Premier League until he is strong enough. Agree with you about Shaw but he was not alone in waiting for things to happen. Apart from Andreas the only other player to try and make something happen was Alexis who looked a class above everyone else. Defensively we got caught far too many times and a better team would have really punished us. Darmian is not good enough so let him go to Juve. Martial had no real supply so it's unfair to judge him. We desperately need a creative midfield player who can boss a match too. Last thing is that we as a team had not enough width and were painfully slow getting forward.

23 Jul 2018 10:30:00
"Mourinho does nothing in the match but sit and watch"

That probably tells you all you need to know mate, he's watching and giving people a chance to show what they can do, we had a lot of kids on the pitch and they are not fit, I'm really not sure what people are expecting.