Manchester United Banter Archive April 24 2014

 

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24 Apr 2014 22:50:47
News journalist and utd fan jim whyte has said that the word is Giggs and the other temporary management team are not convinced on Juan Mata, they think he is to slow in possession and dwells on the ball to much.

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Well if true then I wonder what they think of rooney then because he dwells on it more than anyone else, to be honest no one really moves the ball around that quickly in our team except young tom who passes 3 yards backwards immediately when he receives the ball :)

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If you are referring to Jim White, ssn presenter, he is not a Manchester United fan, Jim White is a well known Rangers fan.

Also, nobody is going to believe this guff.

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If that is there thoughts then a new manager can not be found quick enough we should be building our team around mata and if giggs thinks this team is good enough to play 442 he needs to go with rio and evra or we are going in to next seasonlooking like the old rat packi

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No he talking about Jim White English journalist who is indeed a red. GCU I was just going to same thing about Rooney very slow and gets caught with it a lot . I think Matta at times has tried to pass it quick but hesitates because the rest are too thick and slow to realise what he wants to do .

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AS57,

No I mean Jim Whyte! Journalist and a well known UTD fan, working for the MEN or some northern based newspaper I believe, who has close connections with personal at the club, not the silver fox from ssn who hosts deadline day nor was I talking about the famous snooker player from the 90's because believe it or not Jim Whyte is a very common name further afield!

Maybe u should try engaging your brain before attempting to correct a story I heard HIM tell and at least research the story first? eejit

(Hey see what I done there Stevie ;) )

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Also GCU,

I totally agree mate lol & who's to say they are happy with him thou hey? To throw a bit more petrol on the fire, U yourself said RVP and Wayne do not see eye to eye and maybe other players feel the same too, after all I'm sure certain players are not overly impressed with Wayne and his agent (Paul 'the devil' Stretford) taking advantage of the situation this past 12 months.

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CTR - yeah Jim White writes in the telegraph and one of the fanzines. He is from Manchester (hence being a red) originally before going to Uni down south.

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Haha this almost made me laugh as much as the post earlier about bidding for Messi.

If we drop Mata it's because he won't fit into the system Giggs will want to use not because he's not good enough, what a load of crap.

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Mata is slow. To say Rooney is as slow as he is, is just being dumb.

Everton took the ball away from Mata a lot and with ease. it was very noticeable.

Personally I'd persevere with Kagawa over Mata. I'd also take Rooney in the team over Mata every time.

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Rooney was are worst player against everton both their goals came from him giving possession away. When we played Newcastle we played good and guess what rooney wasn't playing I don't think its a coincidence. Rooney slows mata down by not being a proper striker he comes short into matas space and then when he looks for a progressive pass there is no one up there I was screaming at Rooney performance against everton it was terrible. If we want rooney to play well with mata somebody has got to tell him to stop coming deep to look for the ball and try playing of the last man to create more space for mata if he keeps coming to get the ball he can not be are main striker it restricts are play to much everything is in front of the opposition with no threat in behind therefore there back line can stay rigid and it is easier to defend

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Wouldnt be suprised if giggs benches mata to be honest, weilbeck to start up top with wazza, januzaj left and valencia/nani wide right, he will want an injection of pace in the side going forward I feel. I can't read the great mans mind i'm just second guessing him really but that's how I think he'll start out.

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Scot

I think you are the dumb one mate if after all though time not figured out that wine Rooney dwells on the ball more than any other player on the pitch.

Both Mata and Kagawa lost possession against everton because they were looking for a passing lane and open players and in many cases everyone was covered.

The difference with wayne is he first looks at if there is something there in terms of a shot or dribble and then tries to create something for himself before passing I off. All in all in hangs on to it more than the rest of them.

This is not new and been like this for years especially when he is playing in the hole.

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Carrick is caught in possession more than anyone else. Mata was never slow at Chelsea because they play it around more quickly, whilst at United under Moyes we needed 20 passes to reach the halfway line, then another 30 to the 18 yd area!
Mata has an eye for a quick pass more than anyone else at United and we'll see that under a new manager.

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The class of 92 run the show for the rest of the season with Fergie still upstairs.
What happens if Van Gaal or whoever comes in and after a bit the lads decide they don't like his system, training methods etc and start conveying as much to Fergie, the media etc

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A No.10 can only move the ball quickly if he has options to pass to. At Chelsea Mata used to move the ball very quickly, but then he had Hazard and Oscar running around and past him as a quick pass option. At United it has become clear that many of the players have been hiding and avoiding the ball as they don't want to be the person to lose the ball or be responsible for the break down in play. This has happened due to the lack of confidence they have and the negative tactics which was forcing the players to consider their defensive positioning before thinking of moving forward with the ball.

Mata is the best No.10 in the league, but at United he has been limited by the poor options afforded him.

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GCU Mata is a good player. But all this nonsense about him being the player we should build our team around - yeah right!

We get many on here don't like Rooney. I actually rate him and don't want him sold.

I also think Kagawa is a better player than Mata and that Adna has way more celin than the little bearded one too.

Mourinho comletely outsmared Moyes on that one - recognized the deperation and sold him for way over the odds.

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24 Apr 2014 22:42:11
Hi all
re Evra, last year during his controversial Telefoot (french TV similar to MOTD) he said he wasn't staying for personal reasons but the club very much wanted him to sign long term. This is fact, if any of you are also french speakers you can find it on youtube

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24 Apr 2014 21:29:38
Watching Benfica/Juve and one thing that stands out is the hard pace of the pass that the Benfica forward players can control, which is also something you see with teams like Barca.

Comparing it to our forward players if we passed it to them at that pace the ball would bounce off of all of them 5 yards.

Just so much crisper and faster way of going forward.

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I was thinking the same! Juve, and Italian football in general, is played much slower. All the best teams zip passes in to each other, makes it much harder to close off the spaces as a defending team and that's exactly the kind of reasons why I would love to see LvG! He would want to instil that kind of play into our players!

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Man

LOL, We would need a whole front line mate. Rooney, Hernandez, Welbeck are not great in terms of first touch even on a simple ball and not suited to zapping the ball into them.

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If the reports of us looking at Perez from Benfica are true I am quite happy, real good player.

Ed002 is there any interest from United?

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{Ed002's Note - There was interest from Moyes.}

Don't I know it GCU. Although I think JH is absolute quality of the shoulder, his first touch goes further than I can kick a ball, and I have a kick which emulates Ben Foster lol! For these exact reasons, I think it is imperative to create a team around Mata and Kagawa. For me, Reus, or similar is an absolute must! Quality direct attacking players are needed. I think in the right formation, Adnan could have a really good season.

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24 Apr 2014 20:18:14
Reports flying around that Giggs intends to play a 4-4-2 with wingers and not number 10s, meaning that Mata would be dropped. Lastly, apparently we have until the 7th of may to agree a deal with LVG.

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Mata might play in the Scholes role in CM. I can't see him being dropped, personally.

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Well let's see how many are suddenly fans of the 442, last time I checked everyone slagged it for being out of date and no longer relevant. I like it with better wingers unfortunately ours are poor.

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{Ed004's Note - I don't think 442 works now a days or very rarely does. Teams will lose the midfield battle and therefore concede a lot of possession. Though tbf Madrid played it well the other night. They had 2 banks of 4 with Bale/Ronaldo and Benzema breaking forward as outlets}

Mike bassett england manager would be a fan.

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Ed004

Give I will take Sanchez on the right and Munian/Reus on the left and I love our chances with a kroos/vidal type players in the middle.

Unfortunately even if we had those 2 wingers, it would not work with the likes of mata, kagawa, carrick, cleverly as all are physically quite easy to get pushed around and also lack pace. Our current wingers are more about providing additional defensive cover than attackers, given both backs are highly error prone to being caught out of position.(hence why average players like bambi get into the team playing left wing for his defensive ability and not offensive prowess)

Then the next question would be who are the right forwards for that kind of system and most team who play that always have a bigger target man with a very skill full number 9 1/2.

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{Ed004's Note - We have RVP who is fantastic at holding the ball up and is a threat from set pieces. Mata or Kagawa in behind and The wingers you have mentioned are all hard working I wouldn't worry about them defensively. There main job is to attack. Rafael and hopefully shaw will be brilliant under a new man and when we get a settled back four we will be a lot better defensively. Especially if we get carvalho. Also kroos is no push over and neither is fabregas. Also Rvp has a bit of a temper same with Sanchez who is a terroir when defending}

Its such a 1 dimensional formation. I will keep refering to LvG, as I have absolute admiration for his philosophy, he suggests that a more fluid formation creates spaces in-between the lines and makes it almost impossible to pick certain players up for a defending team. Think of the wonderful goals Messi has scored, or the team goals Bayern/Barca score! Please not 4-4-2!

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Cgu, I can't believe you're still going on about 442. The only team that plays it up to an extent are bayern, but they are blessed with robben and ribbery. And both of them prefer coming in. So they are flexible and very difficult to play against when they don't have the ball.
No one plays with an out and out 442. And we should be the last team to try it as we simply do not possess the wingers to play it.

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Nomid

City has ripped us to pieces playing 442 mate and have done it to many teams.

It is great way to play if you have class wingers and some skill and presence in midfield. All this outdated statements is bs stuff. Look at barca and all that talent in a 433 or 4231 and they look like they can't score for the life of them, because they just don't use wing play.

I do agree we don't have the right wingers but with a reus and sanchez is the best way to open teams up.

Interesting you have just confirmed the best team in the world Bayern play it.

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Ed004, what wingers do you think LvG if he coems in would go for? I think he would either play the 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 which are essentially the same sorts of formations. I really am struggling to see a place for Rooney when RVP is fit again. Mata is the superior number 10 and the signings we make will either be superior wingers or superior central midfielders. I think he could be squeezed out like he was being under SAF.

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{Ed004's Note - I reckon Januzaj will be one and I couldn't guess who he signs it's highly unlikely IMO it will be Robben}

If you think Bayern play 4-4-2 you need your head testing. Its 4-1-4-1 in simple terms, which is very, very different to 4-4-2. really its a 2-3-2-2-1 but I won't waste my breath on the difference.

Ill keep it simple, just so you understand. The reason NO teams play 4-4-2 is because it offers nothing. Its merely effective versus another team who play 4-4-2 and the best team wins.

You say about Barca, I think you've forgotten about their time under Pep. Again, Ill presume you don't understand why they were unbeatable pretty much under Pep, and now they lack that cutting edge. Now, the do exactly what Bayern did last night, they play with WIDER players (as their top 3 with one man central) and they play out wide laterally, whereas under Pep, the WIDE men played narrow and made penetrating runs in behind!

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I can't help myself, you suggest Barca play 4-2-3-1 also. Oh dear, I suggest you actually watch them play before posting such rubbish

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I am hoping that it will be one of Reus, Griezmann, Di Maria or Pedro. I guess Pedro is probably the more likely one as Reus is apparently going no where, Griezmann to France and if it's LVG does he not tend to avoid South Americans?

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GCU, City play 4-2-2-2 when everyone is fit. This is how they played in their title winning season and this is how they play when all their starters are fit.

This is also how PSG played under Ancelotti. They use 2 tucked in playmakers behind two strikers, with 2 defensive minded midfielders and 2 wing backs. City have Silva and Nasri, and only use Navas when desperate for width, which is usually provided by Kolarov and Zabaleta.

We have the personnel to play a 4-2-2-2 with tucked in attacking midfielders, but not the personnel to use an out and out 4-4-2 in all games, which simply does not work unless used in a counter attacking set up ( 2 out and out wide players on the wings with 2 box to box midfielders, for example Bale on the left and Blaszczykowski on the right with Vidal and Strootman in midfield would be a pretty good 4-4-2 )

But a 4-4-2 relies on quick wing play, as in pacy old school wingers ( right footed on the right, left footed on the left ) which is not really easy to get seeing how most wingers are inverted and have a narrower role ( Robben, Bale, Ronaldo, Reus, Di Maria, Ribery, Rodriguez ). It also needs physically gifted strikers to get on the end of the crosses provided.

SO we either buy an all front 6, or we play the 4-2-3-1 we have the players for.

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Man

Well that is interesting because we would have won zilch without of it and the trophy cabinet would have been pretty empty.

Bayern play a 442.

Mick1

As I said I would rather have a Rues and Sanchez on the wings with a Vidal/Kroos combination in midfield and play a 442. It is my personal preference and imo a much more lethal way to play than a 4231 which is tiki taka and more defensive and control orientated.

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24 Apr 2014 19:35:19
Hi Guys

My personal choice for manager would be Klopp but he's made his views well known.

My next choice would be Ancellotti in the hope he would bring Ronnie with him.

However my head says LvG.I think that would be a good choice for RvP and he would sort the dressing room out.I just don't see it as a long term fix maybe 2 to 3 years.

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Klopp will be my first choice too. But lvg is a fantastic manager, and he will take no nonsense from any player. We need to restore the order back into the club as we can't allow the patients to run the asylum!

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24 Apr 2014 19:08:17
A question to anybody , In your opinions do you feel LvG is a realistic target not in whether we could get him but in the way that if holland were to reach the WC final then United's tour starts 10 days later so he would already miss the start of preseason and not fully meet the players till they return from late holidays after the WC then he would need to decide on new players, bring them in, try and intergrate them and get the team to gel while learning new tactics/formations/set plays etc. In my opinion I think LvG would be further down the list because it is imperitive we get new blood in and ship some out this summer and we cannot afford to f*$£ it up again.

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Seeing as LVG is leaving Holland after WC he could give his input now, I think I saw somewhere Holland have given permission to talk to him, so there's nothing to hold up incoming players.

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Looking at the draw, I wouldn't be surprised if the Netherlands are out by 28th June. LvG could be in England easily settled by 1st July, the date Managers usually come.in.

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24 Apr 2014 19:00:15
Guys hop on Mutv for our final game of the season. The lads have to win in order to ensure a top 4 finish ahead of Manchester City. Pereira, Janko, Varela, ROthwell, Pearson and most importantly Wilson are in the team.

Hoping Giggs is seen there

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24 Apr 2014 18:16:32
Klopp speaking very highly of us again today.

I think he would find it extremely hard to turn down were we to make an offer I have to be honest

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Disagree, he doesn't seem like the type to break a contract. He just signed an extension, and I think he will also decline any interest from Barca, once they sack their manager.

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He didn't say no he would not join us. He kept cards close to chest about a possible move.

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Curtr

I agree his main point was that he seemed to deny that he had rejected the role and explained he hadn't been contacted. Need to remember he has important games still to play and there had been criticism of Lewandowski for announcing he was leaving early. Perhaps the fact he is being asked in a press conference gives him a small idea how big this is. When there is a little less pressure on all candidates let's see what they say. They have to keep their own fans on board especially if there are cup finals. Their agents will probably tell United who is really interested.

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According to Ed002 Klopp already DID turn down mega bucks from Barca. Did I understand that right Ed?

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{Ed002's Note - I did not say anything about the money but he has rejected an offer from Barcelona.}

I have a feeling that Klopp will be our man. one day.

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24 Apr 2014 18:12:35
Hearing a little rumour RVP may be fit Saturday.

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Whereabouts in Wales u from mate?

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Hi Damon,

Originally Wrexham but in Cardiff nowadays.

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24 Apr 2014 15:26:03
LvG will not be appointed before WC and I don't think that he will be involved with us during the world cup(I mean even if he agrees to join us he won't spend time discussing transfers etc during the WC)

That leaves us with an option of waiting until the WC is over for him to take over and start analyzing the squad etc and decide on transfers

OR

SAF/Woody/Gill/Glazers/Giggs signing players before we have even appointed a manager.

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MB, LvG will not be occupied 24 hours a day all through the WC. He will have plenty of time to do what he pleases. Obviously he will not be jumping on a plane and heading back to England, but there is no reason why he cannot remain in contact via the telephone. Even videolink. There will be days at the WC when there will be no matches or training. Is it impossible for him to spend an hour or two a day or every couple of days speaking with Ed Woodward or whoever? How long does a conversation take to ask him if he wants MU to go all out for Shaw or Cesc or whoever? A two minutes phone call. But in reality there would have been chats already and there would be a chance before the WC to sit down with Ed Woodward and discuss targets.

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{Ed002's Note - I hope you are kidding here Syd.}

Syd he will be crucified in Holland if they lose out in a quarter or semi and then the news comes out that he was dealing with us during the WC.

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Ed002, would it not be allowed if he is under contract with Holland?

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{Ed002's Note - Not without the approval of the Royal Netherlands FA who are his employers. He is under contract to them to try and get the Netherlands as far as possible in the World Cup, not to hang out with members of the Manchester United board. You make it sound like a decision has already been reached. It hasn't.}

Ed002, when can managers talk to other clubs whilst under contract? Is it anything like player's contracts where they can talk to other clubs six month's from the end of their contracts or a month? I know LvG's contract will not end until July 31st, but can he not discuss a deal with another club before it ends?

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{Ed002's Note - Not at all without the agreement of his employers - you are off in some strange place with all of these odd little ideas Syd.}

With that being said ed do you think united will make any signings before a manager is appointed?

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{Ed002's Note - I cannot answer questions about the timing of signings. Sorry.}

Ed002, we are talking about if LvG was going to be the next manager. I am aware that no agreement has been reached and to be honest I am holding out a little bit of hope that Klopp is the next manager. I also understand that the Dutch will not like it if he is talking to MU whilst under contract, but we all know it happens. You have said yourself that Jose was always going to rejoin Chelsea. He would have been under contract at RM at the time.

Can I ask, if LvG was to be the next MU boss and it is agreed sometime in May (before the WC). Do you think the Dutch FA would allow him to speak to MU for a few days? Thanks.

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{Ed002's Note - The KNVB are not going to allow their coach who has a single task ahead of him to spend a couple of hours a day video conferencing with MU. I cannot answer questions about timing ad whatif questions, but there will be interest in van Gaal and other possible managers. Nothing is agreed yet. As for Mourinho, it was always know that he would return to Chelsea, and that was an entirely different situation.}

Ed002 i'm sure that I read a report saying lvg had already been given permission to sort his future out upto a specific date regarding where he would be managing next. I think the date that was mentioned was around mid may. Is this not the case then?
Cheers

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{Ed002's Note - He has already been negotiating with another club but the question here was about him spending a couple of hours a day talking to Manchester United during the world cup. Can you not find someone to read the post to you slowly so it is clear?

Thanks again Ed.

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So Ed, are you saying that it is unlikely we will sign new players untill a new coach can officially start at the club?

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{Ed002's Note - I didn't say anything of the sort. Has there been some gas leak in Surrey or wherever you all live?}

Syd asked if a manager could negotiate with a club when under contract. You responded by saying not without permission.
Hence why I asked if you new weather it was true he had already been granted permission by knvb.
Sorry if it confused you ed

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{Ed002's Note - I explained that he needs the permission of KNVB to talk with other clubs and he had that when talking with Spurs.}

! This particular post and replies has summed up the underlying issue on here! Read the responses before repeating someone else's question, or use a bit of nouse and think before speaking.

LvG's sole responsibility to his current employer's is to commit himself to their situation, which is to prepare their team in a way which gives them the best chance of winning. I'm not sure everyone is aware of the vast amount of work that goes into a team, such as training, post- match analysis, pre- match analysis, tactics, recovery, daily routine, man management. In the weeks leading up to, and Duringthe WC, LvG will not have a spare minute to himself.

It is not possible for him to be involved in any transfer deals prior to the WC, should he be announced as United's next manager. IMO, this is of concern given that LvG has very set ideas on who and how he wants football to be played. On the other hand, the man's reputation and CV goes before him and he would be an ideal candidate for the job on that basis.

I would have thought that the current board and staff know exactly where the necessities lie in terms of transfers, i.e. CM, so provided the right deal comes along for the right players, they will take it.

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Man

Don't talk sense now because it will ruin the notion that we will just go out and spend 100 to 150 million on new players and have them wrapped in a ribbon for him once he joins and say look at what we got for you. I mean which decent manager is going to complain:)

People are underestimating the issue we might have with sanctioning transfers with no manager in place and posting things that are so far from reality and sacking managers and hiring new ones is always a bumpy road.

The other issue that everyone is ignoring is all the supposed targets had discussions with Moyes and were keen to join according to him, if I am a player it is hard to join now not knowing who the next manager is and if his philosophy has any bearing on my playing time, position etc etc.

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To a degree yes. But if your Shaw, Carvalho and all the other top players who we are supposedly looking to bring in, I am pretty certain that I am going to be first choice so I don't see that being an issue as such. The underlying concern I have is more towards the variation in coaching styles and what direction the team is heading in.

For me, LvH will adopt a high pressing attacking mentality to the team and I was being approached knowing he was coming in I would be excited about the prospects of playing in that kind of team.

I really hope the managers position gets sorted quickly for this reason. Ed002, I have not seen or heard of any kind of realistic time frame that the club would like to find a permanent replacement, is there anything on that front?

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24 Apr 2014 14:16:35
I think the potential for a van Gaal/Keane management team is ideal, van Gaal's vision and tactical know how mixed with Keanes fire and inside knowledge of the club.

I don't think Giggs would make a good assistant to van Gaal, and if what the press are reporting is true then maybe he needs some time away from the club. Remember Sir Alex cut Keane loose because he started to become a disruptive infulence as he wanted to be a manager and thought he knew better, maybe we are seeing the same thing with Giggs.

We need someone who has United at heart but maybe hasn't been involved with the club through the Moyes fiasco.

Thats why Keane might be the perfect match for van Gaal.

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I don't think we'll see Keane anywhere near the United coaching set up anytime soon, perhaps even ever! He's currently the assistant manager here in Ireland for the national team. a relatively new role. Qualifying for Euro 2016 starts in September, I can't see Keano leaving the Irish set up anytime before the Euros. it's not in his mentality to start something and not finish it.

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Van Gaal doesn't need help in the fire department!

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Can't see how keane has any chance of working at Manchester United if SAF is still involved in the club.
The two practically hate each other.
Does Van Gaal and Keane have a relationship already? I am not aware of one so if this is true then how would they suddenly work together now? This is a complete non-starter.

If Van Gaal is the next manager then he will want his trusted people working with him and perhaps he may consider one or two of the existing coaches for some continuity and existing knowledge of the squad.

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While Fergie is at the club it won't happen. I think Phelan or Meulensteen should come back in to be assistant.

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We don't need Phelan, Phil Neville's got the cone and ball collecting duties now.

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Lvg is his own man and he'll fall out with Keane within a week. Ain't going to happen.
Roy Keane has proved he's a crap manager and coach anyway, so why do we need him?

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I honestly think some hack has sat at his keyboard late at night this week, scratched this head for a bit and then thought, "Aha! Keane! that'll get a load of clicks!"

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24 Apr 2014 10:45:17
I don't get how United can move forward on transfers without a new manager in place, especially as we don't have a director of football. We need to get transfers done early and aggressively but it makes no sense to have ed Woodward and the glazers making football decisions. For instance, rumors of a deal for cavani, if true, would certainly mean rvp is on his way. But if LVG is appointed it seems like rvp would stay. Same goes with carvalho and shaw. Personally I wouldn't be upset losing rvp as he doesn't help much outside of goals, doesn't give much defensively and slows down the attack. I think we need a more mobile elite striker to play in front of
Rooney, kagawa, mata, januzaj, etc. Should be a fun transfer window, but it makes it hard to speculate with so little structure in place at the club. Let's hoping we sign a top manager who doesn't play boring defensive tactics (hi Jose!) as united should be both winning and entertaining. After all, players get paid so much bc they entertain millions of people each week.

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{Ed002's Note - Woodward and the Glazers will not be making transfer decisions.}

KG, it's just my opinion, but it wouldn't surprise me if Gill and/or SAF have an opinion on targets. Could they be working on targets until a manager is in place? It's a good question though as many will be wondering the same. If LvG takes over and Holland make it to the final, there's little time to do some work. So it is a bit of a worry and I get your point. I don't know the answer, but it wouldn't surprise me if SAF is helping out in some form.

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That's one of the attractions of Van Gaal. Apparently he has a three week window before world cup preperations.

If he identifies his targets, the club can get on with signing them.

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Probably some generic deals may go through, like we will continue our pursuit for Shaw and Kroos maybe. But as soon as LvG shakes hands on that deal you better be sure that his staff will be in there working hard to ensure that all of his targets are in place for when he arrives. When you think about it, it's not that difficult to see where we need strengthening so he will have a pretty good idea as to who is surplus and who isn't. Every man and his dog for example know that Young is useless or that Cleverley is not good enough to start.

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I don't think anyone will be signed yet. I imagine that deals are still on the table for whoever they were originally on the table for, just need to wait for the new boss to say yes or no - Shaw I imagine is one of them.

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Hopefully we are going to go for players that you don't really need a manager's opinion on. For example, what manager wouldn't want the likes of Shaw, Carvalho, Fabregas, Pedro etc, they are quality players. So as long as we go for the obvious areas that need attentions, for example CB, LB, CM, LW etc, I think if we were not planning on spending a fair whack this summer and there was a bit of penny pinching to be done, then the manager will want to choose his own players who he believes he needs. Surely when you have money to spend and we are targeting top players, what manager isn't going to want the top players.

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My point exactly Syd. We could quite happily press on with deals for Shaw and Kroos, the most promising left back in the country and probably the best play makers in the world. Similarly someone like Pedro, a fantastic player. Not sure if we will go for William Carvalho though, he is a bit more ambiguous. I expect van Gaal would prefer Strootman who he has made Netherlands Captain before his injury.

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{Ed004's Note - but Strootman would play the role Kroos plays. Strootman isn't a defensive midfielder}

I think if LvG got the job Shappy could be pretty happy in theory. Shappy is fond of a few young Dutch talents and he would have a lot of pulling power.

Does anyone else think if Jose won the UCL that he would consider MU?

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The board won't sanction any transfers until the new manager is announced. Once that has happened then discussions will be held regarding what targets Utd had previously identified and the status of the negotiations. Then once this has happened and the new manager agrees/disagrees and possibly identifies other targets then the board will proceed.
We are not a Real Madrid!
Can you imagine the scenario that we sign one player but the new manager doesn't want him and preferred another player for that position. Then we are on the wrong foot from the start.
Ed Woodward may continue dialogue in the meantime with agents etc but that is all.
This is the fundamental reason as to why Utd sacked Moyes now so that they can have a new manager in place (in name if not in person) prior to the transfer window opening on the 1st June.
I know that money can talk but the last statment out of the Kroos camp (not Bayern) was that he would not be leaving this summer i.e. he will either sign a new deal or let his contract run down and go on a free transfer in 2015. Hope I am wrong but I think we have no chance of getting him at the moment.

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KG I find the van persie comment really staggering, strikers are there primarily to score goals, goals win football matches, its pretty hard to win football matches if the focal point of the team decides he's going to copy that other overpaid striker we have and just run anywhere he likes disregarding our shape completely, I admire rooneys work rate but he overdoes it way to much. if i'm playing central midfield I wanna be able to ping passes into my striker knowing he's going to control it and hold it up for others to join in and van persie is a master at this, I don't want to fire it into rooney were 1 time hell kill it and then the next time it will bounce of him and give possession away.

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He is more box to box though ed, I think him playing alongside him with Mata in front would be ideal. We very rarely need an anchor man as SAF always said.

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{Ed004's Note - I think if he sign Kroos we need a proper Dm like Carvalho. With Mata further forward. Would fit into LvG philosophy and tactical approach if he becomes manager IMO}

Hoggy, according to channel 515 on Virgin. MU will not make the same mistakes as last summer and WILL go ahead with signing players whether the manager is secured or not. They also say that SAF will play a big part in who the next manager is. Again, this is what ssn sources are saying, so it's not confirmed, but I tend to agree and believe MU will go ahead with signings regardless if whether the manager is in place. We cannot repeat last season's mistakes.

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Syd mate Mourinho did not want Mata. I suppose Mata would fall in the category of top players.

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Well put Stretfordender 1980!
On Sunday we had Rooney coming deep to receive the ball with Mata, Kagawa and Nani rarely running beyond Rooney and behind their defence.
A fully fit Van Persie would of stayed right on top of Everton's centre backs and engaged them so that through balls could be played in behind their defence and runners from midfield could get some joy. For large parts of the game on Sunday Evertons defence were marking nothing as all of Uniteds players were basically in midfield.
I personally have no issue with Rooney but he will need to nail down a specific position next season and stop floating all over the place as he does sometimes. Hopefully with a new manager and a clear game plan that will become apparent in the future.

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I am not convinced that players would want to join United without knowing who is going to be charge. Sure Woodward can make assurances, but until a manager is signed and shown off the world some players might not be so keen on joining.

On Roy Keane joining, regardless of his relationship with SAF, I don't think it is a good idea. Van Gaal and Keane are similar in many ways, but too much of one thing isn't always good. There needs to be a balance. Now I don't know who should link up with Van Gaal. I do like the idea of Giggs being involved somewhere though.

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Good point MB, but I suspect within the next couple of weeks it will become clear who the next boss is going to be and they could run a few targets by him. I don't buy into the "I need to review the squad and make a decision" dross, he will know where our week links are and will no doubt already know what he wants to do. I'm not concerned especially after hearing that the club will go ahead with targets regardless of whether the manager is in charge. It's not confirmed, but I think it's common sense to get work done early.

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{Ed004's Note - And if it's LvG then surely he will have talked to RVP on great detail and people like Meulensteen}

Hoggy, I cannot agree more. Can you imagine a fully fit Mata playing through balls to a fully fit Van Persie. Van Persie is a WC number 9, Rooney no matter how much he wants to be a number 9 is a number 10. He naturally drops deep and this is why SAF bought Van Persie and wanted Lewandowski. Rooney instinctively drops deep, it's in his blood. I am looking forward to next season when we will see a rejuvenated MU and hopefully players playing in their best positions.

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I would be happy with either ed, but what is certain is that Mata plays behind RVP as the furthest forward of a midfield three. I have no idea where Rooney fits into all of this, he would be pushed wide I think.

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Fresh, Rooney's to slow to play wide nowadays, he also cannot take a player on. Defensively he would do well like James Milner for example, but he would be wasted there and he would probably prefer midfield over the wing and we all know he doesn't want to play in midfield.

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You guys. I can name 6 players that cost over 25 mill.

We identify grow and supplement simple.

Having said that the fees are more now a days but even before.

How much would Vida be now at 21.

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Syd, Rooney is no more a number 10 than he is a 9. He is effectively a second striker with bad positioning.

He does not drop deep and create play because he's good at it, it's because he is not intelligent enough to know he needs to maintain position.

Dropping deep and " getting involved " is Rooney talk for getting bored and wandering off. He needs to have the discipline of staying on the shoulder of the last defender ( something he used to be pretty good at ) instead of running to where the ball is. Moyes was never going to restrict his role though, and has given him complete freedom which only hurt the team's creativity.

Fact is, if Rooney did not score a bucket load of goals from a number 10 position ( if he had Silva or Mata's goal return ), no top club in the world would take him. His finishing abilities make up for his lack of technical ability and creativity and we will not move to where we want unless Rooney is no longer the creator in chief at the club.

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Mick, it's hard to disagree with most of that.

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Completely agree Mick.

One of the most telling things in Fergie's book was his comment that when Rooney tried to develop his technical skills, he usually gave up and went back doing what came instinctively. We can see this every time he plays: he starts in one position and then gets bored and starts chasing the ball like the star player for a schoolboy side. Against Everton, despite playing as the lone striker and both Mata and Kagawa playing behind him, he couldn't help himself from dropping into their space instead of running behind the defence.

One of the biggest mistakes Moyes made was giving Rooney a free role. It allowed Rooney to play his own game and cost the team any coherent shape.

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Danny, I can fully understand why SAF wanted to move him to midfield.

a) It would have solved the Scholes replacement problem that's plagued us for years.

b) It enabled SAF to buy a Van Persie with Kagawa behind.

I think the problem Rooney had with moving to midfield was:

a) He loves scoring goals and wants to break records.

b) He wants to be the main man, I don't think he liked RvP having the limelight.

c) His contract was "apparently" like RvP's contract where it's largely incentive based. So goals bring bonuses. Moving to midfield would dry up his goals.

So was this new contract structured differently? A bigger basic salary which isn't heavily reliant on goals? Has he finally agreed to move to midfield? Personally I think it's unlikely due to his love for scoring goals, but it would be funny if he started the new season in midfield. Or deeper than usual allowing Mata to play more central and Van Persie to lead the line. The editor said a few years ago that Scholes replacement will be Rooney, I wonder if a new contract has encouraged him to move deeper?

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Syd, I've always thought that Rooney was the obvious replacement for Scholes as he can hit a 70yard pass just as well but perhaps not as consistently. He's got the strength and a good passing range, we've seen a lot this season he'll chase back and make a tackle but I don't know whether he'll have the discipline to be effective. Also his positioning is questionable.

Like you said he likes to be the main man, with a large ego he always tries to make a great pass whereas Scholes knew when to keep it simple and retain possession and also when to be more direct and urgent. Think that is the main thing Rooney would struggle with in that position, wouldn't you agree?

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I just can't see Rooney settling in midfield. He isn't happy unless he has a free role, and he would resent the likes of Mata and RVP for stealing his thunder.

More importantly, he hasn't performed well in midfield. Not only is his positioning poor, he is just too slow in possession; if you look at teams like Bayern and Barca, it's all crisp one or two touches, Rooney nearly always has to stop and look up. He has the strength and his long range passing is good, but he doesn't have the control, the positioning or the movement; he's good at bursting into the box, but awful at driving up the pitch.

I just can't see where he can fit in a modern team without upsetting the balance.

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IMO Rooneys best position is as a no 9 although its testament to him that we are considfering him for three different positions. He'd probably make a decent right back as well.

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Oz, I would. But in all honesty I think Rooney would adapt to midfield well over time. He would need some extensive work and a good 20-30 consecutive games to adapt properly. He would still have licence to drive forward and when Mata or Van Persie are injured he could replace them, but even though I don't see it happening, I think it could work. I do wonder what will happen if RvP extends his contract, Mata moves to the number 10 position and we sign someone like Fabregas or Kroos. Where would Rooney fit in or would we need to keep playing Mata wide? It will be interesting to see what happens in the future. People think RvP will be sold and Rooney moved to the number 9 position, personally I disagree and think we will struggle in a lot of games if this happened. For footballing reasons I cannot see it happening. If we do not have a Van Persie/Cavani type striker, we will struggle like we did against Everton. So if it was a choice between Van Persie being sold and Rooney moving to attack or Van Persie staying and Rooney moving to midfield, it would be the latter for me.

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Andrew, Rooney in 2009 playing as a number 9 was the best I have EVER seen him play. He was truly amazing and unplayable that season. But it was also five years ago and he is much slower these days. I have no doubt that he can play there still and would get several goals a season, but he isn't in the same class as the likes of Van Persie. Van Persie has the height, strength and bullies defenders and Rooney is easy to keep out of a game. Against the top sides Rooney would be kept out of the game. Going from Van Persie to Rooney is a poor move IMO. When Rooney is having a good season we finish 7th, when Van Persie is having a good season we blitz the league.

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Andrew, I don't think it is. Some of us are trying to find out where we would put him so that he does not hinder the team. He hinders us as a number 9 because he lacks the discipline, he hinders us as number 10 because he has the touch of a raging elephant, and he hinders us in midfield because he has just about absolutely no sense of positioning.

But the point is, wherever he plays, he will get goals. But how much are we willing to sacrifice in open play to get goals from him. Same with Evra and the left wing, how many goals are we willing to concede because of his attacking instincts before it becomes too much to handle

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24 Apr 2014 11:34:26
just wondering what you guys think with all the paper talk of cavani coming to united personaly can not see what all the hype is I think he will be to us what carrol was to liverpool and as for the price we would be better spending it else where thoughts please

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{Ed004's Note - Don't believe it....}

Thanks Ed for giving your opinion on this one. I can't see why Utd would be interested in a deal for any strikers at present.
They will of been looking at Defenders and Midfield players as has been extensively discussed on this site for months.
A new striker would only be considered once the situation with regards to Hernandez, Welbeck, Rooney and RVP were clear which won't be until after the world cup.
For me this is complete nonsense!

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Went to Psg v Evian yesterday Cavani was pants.

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PSG played a bottle of water?

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24 Apr 2014 10:03:06
Now the dust is beginning to settle, I think that with regards to the departure of the former manager, there was no other way forward. With hindsight, he should have never been appointed manager. Most of us knew this; but out of a sense of respect to SAF, we all got behind him, even though most knew how it would all pan out.
Now the club need to learn from what has happened. It needs to ensure that everything decision taken has to be unanimous. There needs to be a ridged and unmoveable set of rules regarding the appointment of the next manager: Proven track record of the highest order; a man with charisma and the drive to get the best out of the players'; and last, but certainly not least, the new man has to have a deeply ingrained philosophy of football that he can impart on the players' and the club as a whole. Of course, this needs to be the right philosophy for the club; a philosophy that encapsulates the best qualities of Manchester United.

When I hear people talk about the club being miles behind the likes of Chelsea and City, I laugh. Such statements are ridiculous in the extreme. It is clearly evident that from day one, some of the players' - maybe many - were not enamoured by Moyes' and his staff (according to one paper, one of the coaches was referred to as "f. k off, because every time he spoke, the players' wanted him to fu.k off). The lack of respect for Moyes' and his coaching staff was - IMO - the catalyst for everything else that went wrong, for if the players' had little to no respect for the manager, then they were never going to buy into whatever Moyes' was trying to do. Thus, with a new manager will come new found belief: the players' will suddenly fine form and start performing at a much higher level.
If we make two or three stellar signings in the summer - juxtaposed with a top manager - the so called gap that now exists will be closed. I have no doubt about that. In fact, given that we have some incredible young players' coming through the academy, we are probably in a stronger position than our immediate rivals, for the new rules regarding home grown talent will favour us much more than City or Chelsea. Even Arsenals much vaunted youth system has basically fallen into ruin - their under 21 side were recently relegated.

In my opinion, the club can come out of this recent tumult in great shape if the right things are done. The club can be back challenging next season if we all the pieces fall into place. We can regain our crown and ensure that our future success is guaranteed.

Onwards and upwards!

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23 Apr 2014 23:27:20
read today that juventus are prepared to sell paul pogba to raise funds for RVP and nani. I know that swaps are very rare these days but I would be happy to swap those two plus cash for vidal and bring in another striker, I've always liked falcao but his injury will put any prospective teams off till he can prove his fitness.

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If, and only if, Van Gaal is to come here, RVP is going nowhere. He will probably be made captain. Can't say the same about Rooney though.

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I wouldn't be surprised to see rvp go to an italian team

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Really feel like there's no chance of that deal happening but I would be delighted if it did. Pogba really could have improved our midfield drastically had he stayed and is the exact type of player we need.

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As Mick said, RVP goes no where if van Gaal comes in which is looking increasingly likely. I still don't understand these Cavani rumors though.

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Sell a brilliant young player for a nearly past it, injury prone striker and the most inconsistent player ever? Not going to happen. They may sell Pogba if PSG offer some stupid figure, but it won't be because they are desperate for RVP or Nani.

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Face it guys, the Pogba boat has sailed. Will be interesting to see if William Carvalho will come in.

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Don't Juve have enough strikers at the moment? Tevez, Llorente, Giovinco, Vucinic and Quagliarella?

Imagine if we could get a midfield of Carvalho and Vidal/Kroos (slightly different players but both would work).

Who knows who we'll get now though.

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I was at PSG v Evian yesterday. Cavani was Pants! 54 mill worts than the 28 for the wig

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