Manchester United Banter Archive June 24 2012

24 Jun 2012 22:57:14
my god i hope we get rid of young instead of nani and bring in james rod of porto

Because of one match?

GDS

Sorry but even if we had the best wingers in the world we wouldn't of won that game! The whole team was so deep, our midfielders were playing as centre backs and so our strikers had to fill in at centre midfield. When ever our wingers got the ball they had no one to pass to and about 3-4 defenders around them. If we had defended higher up the field we could have closed down pirlo better, not needed to chase the ball around as much and we could have attacked more with numbers! Walcott didn't do anything but defend the whole time he was on! Such a bad game! We may not have let a goal in but that I would of preferred to have lost that 3-2 than just park the bus like that!

REDP

24 Jun 2012 21:37:47
Is it just me who has been extremely impressed by montilivo, I know he missed a few clinical chances but 3/4 of the time he was at the middle of the move, it saying...

Yer i thought he played well
jred

I thought he looked good, kind of similar to Ozil for Germany. Pirlo controlled the whole game tonight though he's shown his class again this tournament

Gav

He was aweful, as aweful as it can get
DJ

Been a very good player for years, and always surprised Fiorentina managed to hold on to him for so long before AC came calling.

StevieK

24 Jun 2012 21:25:35
Gerrard and Parker are getting a footballing lesson from Pirlo in midfield. They look like a couple of eight year old's up against the Italian.

Sydney!

England are getting a football lesson from italy they look like a team of 8 year olds.

also it was parker and gerrard against pirlo de rossi and montilivo hard job
jred

He was immense. England needed a 3rd midfielder up against him and tbf the 2 up front didn't see much of the ball so it wouldn't have been a big sacrifice to just have 1 up there. I guess Roy feels more comfortable with 442 though!

Gav

Milner was horrid also.

For me Gerrard has had a really poor tournament.
Yes he may have set up 3 goals but the rest of his game has been poor. His positional play and general short passing has been awful. All he seems to be able to do is Hollywood balls. He wasn't able to pick the ball up from the defence and link up play and when defending he was way to deep so couldn't close down his man.
We really missed fat frank and wiltshire!

REDP

There has been a lot worse than gerrard
jred

The fact Gerrard wasn't the worst player for England says it all about how poor England were. Gerrard constantly gave the ball away through the tournament, he was overrun in every game bar the Ukraine game and all this was covered up by a couple top quality assists by him. Last night he gave the ball away three times within ten seconds, that has to be some sort of record? England need a massive influx of youth during the next two years just like Germany did a few years ago. It's time to let Rio, Gerrard, Terry, Lampard etc leave and it's time for the Jones', Walker's, Smalling's, Wilshere's, AOC's and Cleverley's to come in and make an impact. Although something tells me the oldies will all be playing in the 2014 WC and we will flop at that tournament too.

Sydney!

Syd
its always easy to say give youth a chance and i do agree but who ,which young players would you of played?

and to be honest i dont see your need to have a go at gerrard, yes his best years have gone but he done ok better than most dont forget he was playing in 2 man midfield against a 3.
thats why we got overrun, it was easy to see that gerrard and parker were told to play in front of the back 4, pirilo sat deep and run the game, if gerrard or parker had picked him up they would of left space behind them.
who would you of played instead of gerrard.
the fact is english players are overrated both young and old i think we done as well as we could have with the players we had.
jred

I disagree jred, we never done the best we could have done with those players. We were far too negative and that is why we are out of the competition. If Gerrard and Parker were not getting at Pirlo and just sitting in front of the back four, then how did we ever have a chance of scoring? We were too negative.

We need to start blooding the youth now ready for the 2014 WC. I wouldn't have done much different to Woy in terms of personnel, but he got the formation and tactics all wrong. Far too negative and gutless IMO. I am not focusing purely on Gerrard, but Parker was playing with an injury and when people are saying Gerrard played great in the tournament it's not just inaccurate, but insulting as our midfield was non-existent in every match, not just the Italy game.

Sydney!

I disagree jred, we never done the best we could have done with those players. We were far too negative and that is why we are out of the competition. If Gerrard and Parker were not getting at Pirlo and just sitting in front of the back four, then how did we ever have a chance of scoring? We were too negative.

We need to start blooding the youth now ready for the 2014 WC. I wouldn't have done much different to Woy in terms of personnel, but he got the formation and tactics all wrong. Far too negative and gutless IMO. I am not focusing purely on Gerrard, but Parker was playing with an injury and when people are saying Gerrard played great in the tournament it's not just inaccurate, but insulting as our midfield was non-existent in every match, not just the Italy game.

Sydney!

Syd
i would say with that squad the QF is about right , we have only got as far as that with better teams than this and dont forget we never lost a game.
woy played very negative but with the players we had im not surprised.
I honestly think if we had tried to play open attacking football we wouldn't of got out the group.
jred

Jred, I guess we will never know my friend, but even if we never got out of the group we would have enjoyed watching the three games. I never enjoyed any of the games we played. We would never have beaten Germany in the next round anyway so perhaps it was better to go out to the Italians rather than the Germans getting one over on us ;)

Sydney!

Syd
i havent enjoyed watching england for a very long time.
jred

Jred, couldn't agree more. That is why we needed Redknapp and not Hodgson. We needed the players to attack and have belief in themselves, Harry would have installed that belief into them. All of our managers since Venables have been negative managers. We have the personnel to play some good football, but we are choosing to be too defensive and that is where we are going wrong. We wasted the "Golden Generation" with negative managers, it was time for another Venables, Harry was the right man. He may have never got us past the Italians either, but we would have been playing some attacking football with more confidence. I cannot stand it when we play to not lose, we should be playing to win.

Sydney!

24 Jun 2012 21:13:09
Gotta say it, Ashley Young has been absolutely rubbish the entire tournament. He has contributed nothing going forward, despite being played in his best position. Really unbelievable that people want Nani sold and have Young start for us. Add that to the fact that we give him 130k a week and crib about wages when actual good footballers demand it. Shocking player!

I agree he has been poor. He should be considered a squad player for us if we want to achieve greatness. That's about his level IMO. I doubt he's on £130k p/w though I really hope not

Gav

24 Jun 2012 18:39:42
Red Joe- you're right I don't know for sure. But imo all great players show a little spark of brilliance from a young age, you could see a game changer from a young age and quite simply I personally don't see that in Rodriguez. I think he'll be a top player but not Ronaldo class.

You said it yourself he's going to get compared to Ronaldo, we're going to dub him as such and if it doesn't pay off we're going to Kane him because he's not Ronaldo. We did it to Anderson because he wasn't the next ronaldinho that WE billed him to be, we did it to Nani when he wasn't the Ronaldo we said he would be, we done it to Berbatov when he wasn't the Cantona WE wanted him to be and we done it to cleverley when he failed to live up to the early hype of replacing scholes, the hype WE gave him.

The Moon.

In fairness I think the gap between Rodriguez and Ronaldo is a good bit smaller than the gap between Anderson and Ronaldinho as The latter 2 shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence never mind talentwise but you make a very good point and that is Ronaldo had that spark that made you notice him immediately, a bit like the Brazillian Ronaldo, its instant curiosity and long term admiration and those players are very rare.

Flimbo

Wow your saying cleverley cant replace scholes, i bet if he never got injured you wouldnt be saying that, right about now you'd probably be saying how well he is playing at the euro's!

24 Jun 2012 17:19:46
Now, that Kagawa has opted not to wear #7 , who do you expect to get #7?, someone from the club or a new signing?
DJ

Maybe we could give Young #7 and let Scholes have his #18 for his last season at Utd

Tony has done more than enough to warrant it. Consistently good to top drawer performances whilst taking a career threatening injury in between.

Plus he seems to be a genuinely very, very nice guy. He is IMO the perfect candidate to be given it.

Jono

Make or break, Give Nani the #7, hope he can raise his game to a new level.

If we sign Modric, he should get it.
Or someone who has come from youth team, like cleverley.

24 Jun 2012 16:33:12
Just wanted to make a comment on Kagawa, i've read he has declined the number 7 shirt as he wants to make a name for himself and basically, "earn" the shirt.

This is the sort of player we love at United and I hope some of the kids coming through take note from him, I think he is a TRUE professional, can't wait to see him at the Theatre!

Ports

P.s C'MON ENGLAND!

24 Jun 2012 14:16:09
"1) Hazard is confident but sometimes looks cocky and arrogant. He's had a terrific career so far and im sure he'll be a top player. Stop being bitter and picking reasons for why we knocked him back instead of facing reality - he knocked us back.

2) as much as I love tunns he won't break through this season. Although I like how you've billed him as Keane class when he's yet to kick a ball. Nice one.

3) Pogba will leave, he's not a United fan so he has no reason to stay and imo juventus are just as big as us, in fact bigger in terms tradition.

4) a country full of racists? You mean exactly like the U.K? Calling the majority of Italians racist is a bold statement, what evidence do you have to support this claim? (the odd 'monkey' chants don't really act as evidence to condemn a nation of people.

5) let pogba rot in the reserves? What a stupid and selfish thing to say. Basically you've just said because he doesn't want to play for us (for whatever reasons) you want him to fail.

6) Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Figo, yashin, cantina, baresi, etc. Are once in a generation players. Rodriguez may reach talent levels like that of Ribery etc. Or status levels like Kaka but he wont ever be as good as Ronaldo and co. Also, like tunns you're putting unneeded pressure on his young shoulders, the last player we hyped was the next scholes, or cleverley and that's not currently going well is it.

The Moon."


__________________________________

I just thought I'd just show people the whole article from Moon. He is fairly responding to a bit of an idiot. And Percy and someone else only pasted the last paragraph - I actually agree with this and I think Moon were you in a betting scenario nobody on this site of would take a bet on Rodriguez being as good as Ronaldo.

Plus the rest of the article makes a lot of sense. Ignore them boyo!

Old Hippo

3) Pogba will leave, he's not a United fan so he has no reason to stay and imo juventus are just as big as us, in fact bigger in terms tradition.

from that statement alone moon clearly has no idea...
he is a football fan first and united fan second..
moon to sum it up is a glory hunter.

only follows united because of their success, he also has a soft spot for chelsea, probably when they won the league, next he'll be saying he likes man city...

(nice guy and all but i personally don't take much notice to what he says about united.)

JK92

JK92

JK - let me tell you a bit about myself, I was 20 when I moved to the UK in 1973, I moved to Manchester where I began supporting United..the following season united got relegated, hardly supporting United for glory am I. Surely at that time I would have supported City?

united have had 2 successful periods in football..the Busby era and the SAF era. Juventus have been a constantly successful side much like Real Madrid, therefore in terms of tradition they are superior correct? Im not belittling United im simply showing that Juve are hardly a step down.

The Chelsea link, yeah I have a soft spot for them but I've had it for 20 years. Why should I change that be because they have a little bit of money?

I SUPPORT 2 clubs - United and my home town club Getafe, or does that make me a glory hunter because we're one of the richest 'sugar daddy' clubs in the world? Didn't think so.

If you disagree with what I say then fine but atleast know what you're talking about before calling me a glory hunter.

The Moon.

JK92

Huh?!

M.D.

I agreed with jk92, a knowledgeable football person and proper fan would never say Juventus has more tradition than Manchester United Its absolute BS and anyone who moves to the Italian league now needs their head checked as its run by nothing more than an average league rife with match fixing scandals and seedy men's clubs. Stupid stupid comment.

Flimbo

"he's a football fan first and a united fan second"

good for him, i'd much rather chat to someone who has an appreciation of the game and is capable of assessing his own team without the rose coloured spectacles or assessing the team of a rival without the pathetic bitterness that permeate the game.

a football fan first? what you mean someone who wants to watch his team play well rather than just win? someone who won't blindly dismiss players and other teams? someone who appreciates that there are other teams in the world as big as his own? someone who understands that in today's global game you can't expect the same loyalty from a french teenager as you can from a salford lad?

if everyone were football fans first and their teams fans second we might get to see some decent football (and relegate the percentage play of allardyce and the like to the annuls of history) and we'd definitely see a vast reduction on the number of small minded bigots.

Do people really need a history lesson on Juventus?!
Just type it into Google and have a look for yourselves.

M.D.

24 Jun 2012 13:30:37
Shinji Kagawa turns down our No. 7 Shirt preferring either No. 8, 23, 26, 29. 8 may be available if Anderson leaves. Cleverley won't lose his 23, so I reckon it's likely to be 26

24 Jun 2012 09:37:55
For crying out loud, even the fake rumours about United don't look interesting these days! I'm holding on to some hope of ONE more signing, a dominant central midfielder, as I think we can live wthout an extra left back, winger or striker next season. But it just doesn't look like happening at the moment!

RS

24 Jun 2012 08:07:36
6) Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Figo, yashin, cantina, baresi, etc. Are once in a generation players. Rodriguez may reach talent levels like that of Ribery etc. Or status levels like Kaka but he wont ever be as good as Ronaldo and co. Also, like tunns you're putting unneeded pressure on his young shoulders, the last player we hyped was the next scholes, or cleverley and that's not currently going well is it."""
dear mr moon
there have been many great players over the years ngiak has been a soccer fan
what makes a great team has nothing to do with great players
it's to do with a great team
cleverley is manchester united through and through
his introduction to the team the beginning of last season saw the most attacking and most attractive and productive team in 5 years
ngiak is not sure kaka etc would have done any better
.... for the team
it was not cleverley alone but the whole team
and he really made a difference especially our severe dip in form after he got injured
ngiak politely begs to differ with your opinion
gan

I agree with the penguin, apart from calling football soccer.
We have had some top class midfielders in the past 5 years : scholes, fletcher, hargreaves, carrick, younger giggs, ... But none of them was able to do what cleverley had done and that is get the best out of anderson. The attacking play we were using at the beginning of the season was one of the best ive seen. So the presence of cleverley benefitted the team more than anyone else could have, because with clevers and ando, we had a top class midfield, and im looking forward to seeing that next season.
Mick

Gan

I disagree a little with you. At the beginning of the season we were very open in midfield and the home game against Chelsea could easily have gone the other way, the Arsenal game looked impressive but again we were wide open in the middle. Cleverley is a good link player and is adept at short passes but he is not a great player. I think with Kagawa and possibly a central midfield player plus the promise of Petrucci I think Cleverley may struggle to get a lot of game time in the next few seasons. I think you see the beginning of seasons level of football a little too high, the 2008 team with Ronaldo Rooney and Tevez was by far better in my humble opinion

Red Man

OP (not Gan) - Once in a generation? In the past 20 years we've seen the following players at their prime...

Ronaldo
Ronaldo
Messi
Figo
Ronaldinho
Zidane
Giggs
Scholes
Beckham
Shearer
Cantona
Henry
Bergkamp
Zola
Schmeichel
Kaka
Rivaldo

Given that most people consider a generation to be 20-30 years- I'd say your argument was a little flawed...

T0MB0Z {Ed007's Note - Roy Keane?}

Cleverley got injured in the 4 game of the season,so only played 3 full games is that really enough to make a judgement on
jred

Having watched Cleverley progress since he was 15 I have no doubts he will make it at United. Not saying he will be a world beater or the next Paul Scholes, but he has great technical ability, great balance and a very good footballing brain. He can pass and he can track back and defend. Cleverley will have a good season next season with a tiny bit of luck. Nolan really ballsed up his debut season.

Sydney!

Nolan? I meant Kevin Davies.

Sydney!

24 Jun 2012 05:06:59
The most popular, and most valuable sport franchise in the world, and one of the most legendable football team, can't afford more 5 m ~ 10 m to compete a bid with other big club for one of its most favered player, Modirc i say, and easily gave up in the bid.

The cost of losing CL, EPL... next season would be easily double or triple the prise of adding bid to show our determination. That's really annoyed me.
why, why, why?

John

24 Jun 2012 02:41:50
Kagawa number 7?

In an interview with Japanese journalists he said he wants to make a name for himself and has requested a number which means a lot to him, apparently it's 8, 23 or 29.

(this could be BS though)

JK92

He has said no..

"I've just joined the team and haven't accomplished anything yet," Kagawa told journalists in Japan after his 12-hour return flight. "I want to make a name for myself [at United] on my own terms."

Love this guy already..... only wanted to play for us and humble too.... can not wait to see what he is like in the epl with us...

oxred

24 Jun 2012 00:24:27
6) Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Figo, yashin, cantina, baresi, etc. Are once in a generation players. Rodriguez may reach talent levels like that of Ribery etc. Or status levels like Kaka but he wont ever be as good as Ronaldo and co. Also, like tunns you're putting unneeded pressure on his young shoulders, the last player we hyped was the next scholes, or cleverley and that's not currently going well is it.

The Moon.

This is one of the worst posts I've ever seen. It's like you hate United. or are just obsessed with the old. Rodriguez could well turn out to be a Ronaldo type talent, for you to say with such authority that he'll never be as good as Ronaldo is just pure ignorance, arrogance and stupidity.

Percy

Seeing as Kaka won the Ballon D'or I wouldn't mind if Rodriguez got to that level...

And i think at that time he was at the same level as Figo and Cantona at there peaks anyway. Kinda confusing post.

Kai

Im sick of the old new messi new ronaldo new kaka let them make there own name
especiallly rodriquez and kovacic etc

I agree - didn't realise Moon had a time machine! Also your point is very subjective, personally I wouldn't have included all those names in your list of 'once in a generation players'. The whole point of buying young, promising players is finding out just how good they can become with hard work, coaching
etc. If you can tell that before we even sign him perhaps you should be a scout ; )

Gav

I've been watching him constantly for nearly 3 years. He gets overhyped on here more than anywhere else. He's a very talented lad but he's not a brilliant player at the moment.

In fact, on current ability Bale looks better and shows just as much promise as Rodriguez.

in fact in a couple of years watching him the only time he's looked world class was when he put 3 past a very, very poor Guimaraes side.

Apart from that game and 1 or 2 others he's looked as threatening as Bale or Young. Would you say that these 2 have Ronaldo type ability? No you wouldn't.

Just out of interest have you seen enough of Rodriguez to rubbish my opinion?

im not sure how any of this has anything to do with United..and if im obsessed with the old then surely that means you have a little tug over Nani every night?

The Moon.

My brother Kai (also a poster) and I are half portuguese!

We watch porto all the time, you seem to be forgetting he's 20!, He's two years younger then Bale and six less then Ashley Young.

He's got time to develop. And no he's not the finished product hense why we can afford to buy him.

United would put him on the same conditioning programme they put Valencia and Ronaldo on to build his strength up, so he'll be quick and powerful.

The likely hood is he's not going to be as good as Ronaldo but the point is you just don't know.

My only worry is that if he came to United is that he'd get compared to Ronny as much as Nani did and the pressure might get to him.

Red Joe