Manchester United Banter Archive February 25 2015

 

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25 Feb 2015 22:05:46
Just watched the Arsenal v Monaco match:
1. Great to see Berbatov score.
2. Moutinho is such a classy center mid, waht a clever player.
3. I hope we got Pogba, but Kondogbia should be a player to consider. He has size, athleticism, and is just 22. He is a box to box player with a lot of physical presence.

Believable2 Unbelievable2

26 Feb 2015 12:21:28
Moutinho is high up on my list as that creative midfielder we need that allows Rooney to play as a forward.

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26 Feb 2015 23:13:53
Fresh, Moutinho would have been an excellent signing a couple years back but the role he would fill is the one Herrera should be playing and he's not that much better to be worth signing instead of buying in other areas

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25 Feb 2015 20:36:27
Would like nothing more than for Arsenal to falter here tonight so that they may take one eye of their game at the weekend with a potential uphill battle in Monaco ahead.

I think we need the other CL challengers to lose some ground before April to leave us with a chance at top 4. I will also most definitely be batting for the City camp against Liverpool this weekend also.

Believable3 Unbelievable1

25 Feb 2015 21:43:18
i see arsenal wenger walks off without shacking hands like always when he loses disgraceful

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25 Feb 2015 21:47:03
Juanmatasbeard,
I apologise in advance if I have you mixed up with someone else. But didn't you say the other day that you live in Adelaide, Australia? If so, are you nocturnal because you are always on here during the day (UK time) and I thought Australia was like 10 or 11 hours ahead of us?
If this is so, I must say your dedication to this site is to be applauded.

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25 Feb 2015 22:11:10
It's 8.38am here mate. Got up early to watch the Arsenal game. I work two weeks on, two weeks off mate so I have plenty of free time every second week (and when you work in the middle of nowhere the Internet is all you've got).

Like I said before though the game times are a killer but I have read this site for years and I am glad to see it growing with new posters almost daily.

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25 Feb 2015 22:12:09
Yeah you got me mixed up with someone else just registered tonight but been reading for long time in here

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{Ed033's Note - Welcome aboard Devil500. betty swollocks was replying to Juanmatasbeard

25 Feb 2015 22:14:39
Sorry thought you was talking about me lol

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25 Feb 2015 22:58:02
Strewth mate, that's 2 from Oz now. It getting like bloody Neighbours on here. Beast would make a good Mrs. Mangle. :)
Welcome aboard Devil500. My name's Betty and I'm the hottest Sheila in town.

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26 Feb 2015 13:00:32
Good one Betty.

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25 Feb 2015 20:22:24
I'm very surprised by criticism on here of late for Daley Blind. I think he's possibly the only one of our summer signings who has shone, very underrated. To me he's an intelligent player, always trying to play the ball forward where it's possible. The problem time me lies ahead of Blind. Yes we need an authoritve centre back with Rojo but the front 5 ahead of Blind/Carrick is the issue. Give those 2 players movement they'll pick the pass out but there not getting any movement. My own opinion of course, I'm sure people will say Blind and Carrick aren't world class enough for United but how has our 'world class' stars performed of late? A lot less impressive than Blind I dare say. We've always been built on the right players, with the United way ingrained with a sprinkling of class. Atm we are putting square pegs in round holes because of the money spent on them or there name.
Thanks.

Believable6 Unbelievable0

26 Feb 2015 10:10:16
agreed if we played 442 diamond wiv blind/carrick at the base ADM and Januzaj playing as wingers Mata at the point and Rooney and Falcao up top there would b more movement, players would b playing in their preferred positions and it would give the "world class" players a chance to shine. seems daft that so many suggest getting rid of players who haven't performed because they have been played out of position.

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26 Feb 2015 12:24:09
I think we would be destroyed in the middle with that formation Mulumbo. We would be frightening going forward, but we would have no numbers in the middle and most teams play with 5 in midfield now. Would be fun watching it though.

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25 Feb 2015 20:24:13
Hi ed's. I press "reply to post" on my phone and no box opens. Just the "reply to post" button appears pressed down. Is it my phone?

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{Ed033's Note - It depends on how old your phone is. It should work if your phone is less than 3 years old. It's not a Blackberry is it.?

But whichever device you have, you have to wait for the page to load in before trying to reply, otherwise the code to open the Reply To Above Post button doesn't load in.

25 Feb 2015 22:29:24
Supasub, If you have a Samsung S5, try using Google Chrome rather than the Android browser.

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25 Feb 2015 18:58:43
I have been a United fan since the 1980's and remember the bad times up to 1992. I am amazed that we appointed LVG and thought what a great time it would be for the club going forward, even though I thought Moyes would of turned it around. What I can't get my head around is that LVG had a squad with Rooney, RVP, Mata, Young, Valencia, Carrick, Januzaj, Wilson, Fellaini and I believe Herrera and Blind already done deals, that instead of getting a quality centre back, he spends the British record on Di Maria and then £9,000,000 on the loan of Falcao (who knows the exact price)?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

25 Feb 2015 19:18:04
In total agreement, (think it was Shaw not Blind).

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25 Feb 2015 19:45:10
I do wonder whose idea it was to get LVG, his reputation apart from a wonder season at Bayern and sack the very next season(they won the treble a year later I think), is a history of mixed results and aggrevation and he is most definitely at the rear end of his curve. I worry about that person most of all. We are still buying forwards and skimping on midfield and defense. I'm not convinced he's got total control of the purse strings.

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25 Feb 2015 19:55:19
Shano

Assuming a centre half of sufficient quality was available and that Giggs hadn't told him that the centre halves already there actually had potential and deserved a chance,

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25 Feb 2015 19:57:05
You must be mad if you think it was 100% LvG's idea and plan to sign Di Maria and Falcao, It's not exactly something a manager would turn down if the board offered that opportunity. He may well have enquired into top quality CB and been rejected, I think it's a tad pointless making a judgement when you don't know the full picture.

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25 Feb 2015 20:21:01
Red man even if Giggs did tell LVG that, do you think he would take that as gospel or make his own assessment of the players?

Ruud Guilt a self proclaimed friend of Van Gaal did an interview a couple of days ago saying that LVG had a chance to sign a hatful of defenders in the summer but was 'hell bent on signing Mats Hummels as he is a massive fan'. Is the modern game really a place where you can put all your eggs in one basket with no plan B?

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25 Feb 2015 20:28:28
After the disaster with Moyes, I'm sure the club felt like they needed someone with a winning mentality and some gravitas. You need to answer the question who else was available, and then maybe you will understand why it was Van Gaal. Besides which, after his world cup success with a mediocre side, I bet most United fans were feeling somewhat positive about the appointment.

With regard to the centre half position, who was available that was guaranteed to be better than what we have? In answering this you need to take into account that we couldn't offer Champions league football, and the general lack of depth of quality in these positions.

It's really easy to be wise after the event.

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25 Feb 2015 21:15:40
I think seeing Di Maria move to United would have made a few players consider coming in last summer. I think Garay was there for the taking last summer as was Benatia had we stumped up the cash.

It's like many have said the cash in the summer wasn't spent as well as it could have been.

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25 Feb 2015 21:30:14
Jmb

Given his late arrival after the World Cup did he have enough time to assess them properly?. Remember in summer we actually won the summer tournament and things didn't look too bad at that point especially if Giggs who would have been close to the players gave decent reports. Let's also not forget SAF thought they were going to be good enough and that is another point that LvG may have considered. Looks like he has seen them for what they are now though

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25 Feb 2015 22:12:29
Hopefully Red man. I would like nothing more than to see a commanding CB come in during the summer window.

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25 Feb 2015 22:43:50
Giggs specifically told Harry Redknapp that if it was up to him Rio would be starting for him every week this season for Utd.

Whatever your thoughts are on Rio (we have debated this before). LVG clearly was ignoring advice and had made his mind up. He was in control and therefore is to blame.

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26 Feb 2015 01:05:37
So. Is it Gigg's fault now?

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26 Feb 2015 05:39:48
Beast

What Giggs said to Harry seems to be advice for the benefit of a lesser side at QPR, where Rio may have been able to play rather than at our standard. However that does not mean that is what he was saying to LvG. I may recall it wrongly but had Rio not already been released Long before we appointed LvG anyway, I recall Woodward told him in the dressing room after one of the last games of last season. Sadly I think it only highlights your willingness to blame LvG.

If Giggs was telling LvG to play Rio every week, which he couldn't because he had long gone, then your favoured option of giving Giggs the reigns until the end of the season looks utterly ridiculous, because Rio sadly had declined badly and if our assistant manager had that opinion it is another reason to prove he is not up to the job of manager or interim manager for any period of Manchester United.

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26 Feb 2015 10:52:32
@Red Man

If LVG is as good a manager as you seem to think he is, then surely he knows which advice to take and which to ignore? Also, the buck has to stop with him. He is the man in charge, not Giggs. You were comfortable last year to put all the blame on the manager, yet I wonder what has changed now?

But coming to the larger point on center backs, I don't think it has anything to do with Giggs or LVG. It is well known that LVG wanted to sign Hummels and perhaps we may have had a look at Benatia but he chose Bayern for UCL football. After all LVG also wanted Vermaelen and has bought Rojo as a center back. He obviously recognizes that improvement is needed in that area.

The reason we don't have an experienced CB yet at the club has been due to a combination of factors like timing, a lack of availability of our top targets and not having UCL football to offer while price has been an issue with some like Miranda.

I am pretty sure we will sign Hummels in the summer if we are in the Champions League and this issue will be settled.

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26 Feb 2015 11:01:22
All I know for certain is Harry Redknapp said, "I spoke with Giggs before signing Rio, he advised me that if he were in charge of Utd he would have him starting every week, that obviously confirmed all I needed to know and I made the deal", words to that effect.

Below is what I read, so it seems LVG was making decision before his official appointment. I like how you say Giggs must have advised him that Jones, Smalling & Evans are good enough and LVG listened, but he ignored him about Rio - DOUBLE STANDARDS Redman:

"Manchester United chief Ed Woodward shocked Rio Ferdinand by informing him that he will not be offered a new deal.
As part of the continuing changes at Old Trafford, Woodward is also understood to have told Chris Woods and Phil Neville — the only surviving members of Moyes’s backroom team — that their services will no longer be required when Louis van Gaal takes over."

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26 Feb 2015 11:47:20
Let's be candid if you talk about which advice to ignore or take, LvG got the decision right on Rio who we could all see had declined and if Giggs recommended anything else it reflects badly on Giggs not LvG.
Jones Smalling and Evans were younger and signed by SAF the esteemed previous manager, we don't know what Giggs said but if he felt so positive about Rio there is nothing to say he wasn't similarly positive about the other three. There was a week or so between Rio being told and LvG's later appointment. then LvG was at the World Cup until the end of July so his decisions could not be based on his working with them and more likely advice.

LvG gave them a chance likely because of a brief view of them, advice or lack of other choice in the market. He hardly seems to speak to Giggs on the bench and I would be interested in why you think that is?
I don't get this about "I think LVG is a wonderful manager", I defend him because his gravitas deserves it more than last seasons incumbent but he is not my ideal manager

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26 Feb 2015 12:32:22
I think the whole things is one big mess and indicative of how we are playing. The manager overriding his assistant almost immediately, whether right or wrong shows that LVG makes his own decisions (fair enough). To leave us with so little cover at the back, no leader, or experience was a grave error in my book and we have paid for it. We can't say its because he was advised incorrectly, because he has shown he ignores advice.

I don't see the point of Giggs sitting there, it seems his old Dutch U21 coach is his real assistant from watching them on the bench, but we don't know who is doing or saying what in reality.

The manager is a big boy, he makes a rod for his own back and he deserves every bit of criticism being thrown his way. Like he deserved praise for the World Cup overall result with a weak Dutch team.

However if the World Cup was over a season rather than a few games I very much doubt we would see them reaching the semi-finals though. He is found out too easily and player performances for Holland and UTD teams have been very dull, and poor on the whole. The manager is accountable.

Hopefully things click soon, but the signs are they wont.

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26 Feb 2015 14:51:43
Redman
For all lvg gravitas his not doing much better than our last incumbent.

Then again its everybody else's fault this year lvg can do no wrong .

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26 Feb 2015 15:35:55
I love the confused logic. Your argument is that Giggs told van Gaal that Evans, Jones and Smalling were good enough, so Giggs is to blame for our troubles because van Gaal had to rely on his advice.

But you also argue that

Giggs advised van Gaal to keep Rio - Giggs "would have him starting every week" - and Van Gaal told Rio he could leave, thereby, completely ignoring Giggs's advice.

It's really difficult how you make the leap from van Gaal didn't take Giggs's advice by offering Rio a new contract, to van Gaal didn't sign defenders because he took Giggs's advice that our current defenders were good enough.

Does it not seem like you're using the evidence to paint van Gaal in the best possible light: i.e. we should praise van Gaal for getting rid of Rio, but we shouldn't criticise him for not signing defenders because that, of course, was all Giggs's fault.

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26 Feb 2015 15:36:49
Redman

You are a trip now you are starting a whole discussion on the fact that giggs must have told LVG the CB' s are good and that is why he did not buy nay. Unbelievable lol

How about we start a discussion on the Club being also responsible for changing to addidas and it is the core reason the players are not getting the philosophy and performing and not LVG's fault.

At least we know the change to addidas is a fact the rest is like telling bedtime stories to your 5 year old LOL. Sorry could not resist LMAOF

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26 Feb 2015 18:10:12
Danny

LvG is a leader and as such will listen to advice and make decisions. It isn't about fault because if you are ever in a leadership role you alone are accountable.

This is not about praising LvG but assessing and surmising how decisions were made in such a short time last summer. Giggs a player who had played with them all, interim manager and the new assistant manager would almost certainly have expressed an opinion, The praise he gave in public is not always what you may counsell in private. I maintain there seems little communication visible between LvG and Giggs in public and LvG seems to turn to his Dutch compatriot during matches. Whether he trusts Giggs advice is something we don't know but in games where we have struggled, which has been many, wouldn't you ask the opinion of a "trusted" aid?
It is not about saying there is fault with Giggs, he likely gave advice, LvG makes decisions, decisions he will live or die by.
I will stand up for the manager in this unless I know he clearly made an error, even if most condemn him on here.

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25 Feb 2015 15:03:22
How do you all view the prospect of having to break for possibly 2 months around November/December 2022 so that the Qatar World Cup can be played in semi-reasonable conditions?

I don't know about y'all (to use an adopted colloquialism) but, to me, football is primarily about clubs, not nations, and the massive disruption to not just the leagues and cups, but also possibly the economic structure of the sport, is unconscionable.

The geopolitical aspects of this whole affair are intriguing and, to me, are why football is such a great sport - it has so many levels, in the game itself, the characters from all over the world, the refereeing controversies, the dubious legitimacy of the governing boards, the tribal and international rivalries - plus the metaphorical relationships to society, morality and ethics.

I mean, should the European nations club together to boycott the decision, and, if they did, what affect would that have on international relations? Given the way the Middle East is, does anyone think that this World Cup will go ahead anyway?

Believable0 Unbelievable0

25 Feb 2015 16:19:26
What annoys me is that the Qatar bid ignored any health and safety advice on players playing there in the summer. I think they always knew it would have to be moved. In that case, this information should have been part of their bid, so that countries knew exactly what they were voting for.

The whole thing is one huge fraud, but I don't know why anyone's surprised.

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25 Feb 2015 17:17:30
But at least uncle Sepp won't go cold at night.

The whole bidding process is a joke from start to finish.

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25 Feb 2015 17:27:44
I genuinely can't believe they got away with Qatar winning the bid in the first place. Then you have FIFA planning to disrupt pretty much the world of football as a result it is beyond belief.

I think the PL clubs should flex their muscle, where we lead others will follow. Start offering contracts which include the 2022 year to state that the players will not be permitted to leave during the season. If the PL refuses to budge, then players will have a choice, pick their nations over lucrative contracts, I know what 99.9% would choose. I doubt any players have contracts up to 2022 yet, so it won't be difficult to introduce I imagine. What would a World Cup be without many of the Worlds stars and with more and more TV money coming the PL way it only means better players and a larger share of the Worlds elite are based here.

FIFA is a joke and the sooner they are put in their place the better, Qatar, unbelievable.

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25 Feb 2015 17:30:07
How on earth did Qatar win? They aren't a footballing nation and we all knew it was pretty inhospitable in the summer. Breaking up the League is a terrible idea and I'd go as far to say that we will get some very strange results following the World Cup where 'lesser' teams that do not have as many WC players will push higher than normal. It significantly disadvantages the top teams in all League's.

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25 Feb 2015 18:14:46
The real joke here is Blatter, How he got away with it when clearly teyhere was some brown envelopes passed around is beyond me. Its a middle finger to all the major leagues and I there will be a lot of unhapppy players, clubs, staff, and most importantly fans if it breaks up the season.

It needs to be addressed. Every year that passes Fifa are losing more and more credibility in my eyes. Some major overhauls needed me thinks.

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25 Feb 2015 19:08:58
I must say, Beast's idea to combat it on a player level is interesting, but doesn't it only work if the leagues have decided to continue their seasons during the world cup? Otherwise what's the point?

The corruption and lack of accountability in the governing bodies is mirrored by the cheaters on the field. The decline in morality overall stands in stark contrast to the increase in global interest. But then with so much money at stake perhaps it's not surprising.

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25 Feb 2015 20:26:30
With all the money coming in from the Middle East over the last couple of years in terms of investment I don't think FIFA had much of a choice. They are trying to push the game into as many cultures as possible and I can see why they have done it (along with a bucket of cash).

I personally don't agree with messing around many governing bodies but I don't know how many of the major European clubs such as PSG, Man City, Real Madrid, Barcelona etc can have any complaints as they all have affiliations with the Middle east.

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25 Feb 2015 22:03:42
Juan, that's fine. But if you want to get football to these areas, then at least be up front with the changes and upheavel that will need to be made, when the bids are made, rather than pushing things through the back door after the event.

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25 Feb 2015 22:14:44
I agree completely Noucamp. I thought that England, The U.S. and Australia would have been more suitable contenders but I think if Fifa do not strip Russia after all the controversy around the country at the minute then they will have a lot to answer for.

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26 Feb 2015 07:52:00
An interesting thought that players sign contracts excluded release to the world cup, why oh why would they do that. Most players ultimate goal is play in the world cup finals and they wouldn't have to make a choice as the players hold the power. You can just imagine the EPL promotional power with the top stars refusing to play in the EPL and the standard being set by the likes of Barton / Barry etc etc.
Despite what people think most players want to represent their country and they also hold the balance of power. Just imagine this website with Utd having no international players, look at it now when we have a squad full of internationals, meltdown within a couple of weeks.
Agree with Noucamp, no issue with Qatar winning it is the fact their bid was not judged with a winter world cup.
Anyways off to look forward to 2022 when we have a team full of players like Barton / Barry etc lol.

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25 Feb 2015 20:40:58
I have noted the Ed's comments on a potential breakaway European league and wonder how a November World Cup would impact the decision, would it hasten it and if already set up would the players still be contractually obliged to go to Qatar?

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{Ed002's Note - It is of no consequence and if it happened before then it is likely the players would all be excluded in any case.}

26 Feb 2015 16:11:47
Keenoh, maybe you think differently to myself. But I feel confident in saying that given the choice between earning £300k a week for 5 years or playing in a one off World Cup in Qatar, the vast majority of players would choose The contract. Remember this isn't the 80's anymore, club football holds more sway for most people now, let alone in 7 years (what will the average premier league player be earning then?). You will always have some that are more patriotic than they are greedy, but what would you choose?

Fifa would buckle if the PL and clubs showed some backbone as others would jump on board. The World Cup would be moved elsewhere and held in the summer as normal, but only if the clubs fight back.

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25 Feb 2015 14:19:39
I'm going to try and make an optimistic post that is in favour of LVG and see where I go with it. But I am expecting a massive improvement next season.

LVG has faced 4 main problems:

I think part of the problem has been that he did not have long to evaluate the players in pre-season as his focus was rightfully on Holland. A meticulously planned manager such as LVG needs a LONG time to plan his tactics, get the players that he wants for roles and to get it all to gel. He requires intelligent players (if footballers can be classed as intelligent). Within just a few days of his arrival we jetted off to America and began to travel, this did not give him long on the training ground to get to work.

His second problem was the summer transfer window. Not knowing what formation would be best to play was a serious problem, he bought he thought would fit in but that hasn't yet worked out for him. He was also unable to sign players that he wanted to, namely Hummels who will totally transform our style of play.

The third problem has clearly been injuries, an incredible amount that would even cripple the likes of Real Madrid. It is testament to the spirit that he has injected into the team that we are in the top 4.

The last problem has been misfiring strikers. No one expected RVP to be quite so bad under LVG, they are after all best mates and he had a stunning World Cup. Falcao the same, very poor and missing the easiest of chances.

I am positive in that LVG is slowly analysing the squad. A lot of the chaff has been separated from the wheat and we are seeing a more streamlined squad. But what is crucial is that we choose a system to go with and tailor the summer towards that system, even if it meant signing someone undesirable or 'boring', like a De Jong for example. Now, I do hope this system is a 4-3-3, you could see how lovely it worked for Barcelona yesterday against City and how well it tends to work for Madrid.

Let's just hope the summer does not see a scatter gun approach again to signings and that more consideration goes in to each and every one.

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25 Feb 2015 14:46:34
"Let's just hope the summer does not see a scatter gun approach again to signings and that more consideration goes in to each and every one". Fresh

Sorry, Fresh mate. Had to chuckle at your last line, when I think of the hundreds of names you've thrown on here on a daily basis over the years :)

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25 Feb 2015 15:19:47
Unless inheriting a great side most managers need time. I was against LVG, mostly due to his age, because the older the manager they get set in their ways. This is fine if they are with a team they built, but imo a huge hindrance coming to a new team. So I'm hoping he gets his 3 years and we improve in each of those years.

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25 Feb 2015 15:24:17
Fresh - Interesting points:

The World Cup wasn't ideal and somebody like LVG is meant to benefit from more time I agree. However it wasn't as if he was coming in to manage FC Baku or something, Man Utd can be watched anywhere at any time, there is more than enough footage/info available for a half competent researcher to know everything they need to know in a couple of weeks.

Furthermore what do you think these managers do during their World Cup time? There is only so much preparation you can plan for, or training time allocated to players, the players bitch about boredom, so just imagine how much prep work could be done by LVG during the off time at the World Cup. I think this problem is over egged. Furthermore he has 50 odd staff who he trusts implicitly apparently, so what were they doing whilst the World Cup was going on?

He has now had time, nominal injuries, no fixture congestion and what do we see week in week out, any improvement?

Give any other manager £150m+ to spend and the team would resemble their team after a few months, he spent poorly or didn't spend in the right places. His dream players may or may not have been available, but that is the case for every manager typically. I'm sure Arsenal would have wanted a World Class CB or Liverpool a World Class striker. To say it isn't right to judge him because he didn't get his dream player is very weak. Half the people on here don't even want Hummels or Strootman.

"Sorry I couldn't sell the car for you boss, but the gullible guy I wanted to visit the showroom didn't turn up so I couldn't sell it!" You'd be sacked in a second.

Injuries is a cop out, most teams have injuries and he chose a formation which actually highlighted our injuries more, why have 3 CB's when you don't have any fit?

I'm sure he is analysing the squad, that's what he is paid to do, but the results of that analyses are not being read correctly. Every time he does something right he changes it the next game. I think he is looking at a picture and wanting to see a unicorn, so eventually he see's a unicorn. Everyone else see's an old nag (I'm not just talking about RVP here either)!

I doubt we will see scatter gun to be fair, but I don't know how we expect to compete for the top class players we need when other teams look ten times better, he is not likeable and they will have seen how our latest batch of world class talents have crumbled under his stewardship.

We have problems with wages now, so that trump card has been wasted.

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25 Feb 2015 15:27:19
I think people need to stop buying into van Gaal's own mythology. Football doesn't work in the sense that the manager performs alchemy behind closed doors and then after 3 or 6 or 12 months the team magically clicks. Strategic transformations are incremental, we should be seeing the team getting more and more used to van Gaal's methods and tactics. In turn, you would expect that the more players get used to the new system, the better the team will play.

This just hasn't happened. There has been no visible improvement in our performances since the season started. In turn, even when we had minimal injuries, the performances didn't really improve.

If the argument is that until van Gaal gets to bring in a significant amount of the players he really wants, we won't see any major improvement or that he's waiting until he gets more players before he plays the formation he wants to go with in the long term. Then I'm not buying it. Good managers are capable of getting the best out of what they have at their disposal. We don't have a terrible squad, we have spent big money his season and one player isn't going to make everything fall into place. The manager needs to show us that the team is improving under his leadership, end of.

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25 Feb 2015 15:41:38
I'm not the boss though so I can freely speculate :) If anything it generates a good discussion!

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25 Feb 2015 16:01:34
Danny
Top post

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25 Feb 2015 17:02:56
I think your getting too hung up on the 150 million. That was only a fraction of what needed to be spent. Look at what City and Chelsea have spent over the last decade to catch us up. At the sane time we stood still so they didn't just catch up they overtook us.

Last season exposed this squad for what it was. A collection of average players with a lack of quality. I seem to remember during fergies last season shahram saying we needed 10 new players and he got laughed off the board. 2 years on he's been proved right.

We sold Ronaldo for a record fee and replaced him with a guy 3 levels below him for less than a quarter of the fee. I like Valencia, he's a tryer, but he needs an upgrade.

It was pretty clear before the South African world cup evra was in decline. Syd got hammered on a regular basis for pointing this out yet it took four years to replace him.

And that's before we even get to midfield.

We're paying the price for a decade of underinvestment and last season and this season the pigeons have come home. Even the 200 million moyes and van gaal went through has been misspent.

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25 Feb 2015 17:32:38
Beast and Danny, I do totally agree with you both. I was just trying to potentially put a different spin on things and offer up some different arguments as to why things haven't improved. I think we will see an improvement next year if he remains here, but if Ancelotti, Pep or even Klopp are available then I would have no hesitation in sacking him providing one of them was guaranteed to come in for us.

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25 Feb 2015 17:33:25
Also rumours now that DDG and LVG aren't on speaking terms. Looks like he may have fallen out with a big player, didn't take long. He has picked the wrong one though as if this is true then I think DDG will get more of a backing from the fans than LVG will.

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25 Feb 2015 17:45:00
So does that put to bed "this is a title winning team " argument from last year.

I argued long and hard that wasnt a great team, i think this current team is much better

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25 Feb 2015 17:54:31
£150m is a huge spend. But the main thing is that people aren't expecting us to be back at the level we were before we sold Ronaldo. What people are looking at is how much we have improved from last season given that we spent a huge amount of money in the summer. Nobody is expecting us to win the league or perform at the level of Real, Bayern, or even Chelsea and City. But the harsh reality that people are constantly trying to excuse is that van Gaal has yet to produce the improvement in performance over last year that he and the club promised.

People are saying that we need to give van Gaal three seasons a hundreds of millions of pounds before we can judge him. That's nonsense, you judge a manager on how is performing given the resources they currently have at their disposal. Despite having better players and less fixtures than last season, we are only performing very marginally better than Moyes's United. That simply isn't good enough and van Gaal needs to prove that his methods are working if he wants to convince the club and us supporters that he is the right person to rebuild.

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25 Feb 2015 18:10:00
MrE - I agree the £150m doesn't tell the whole story, so its easy to bang that drum, we clearly are suffering due to a lack of shrewd investment in earlier years.

Maybe the more accurate statement should be, do we look more like a team that had £150m invested or £150m of talent leave this summer?

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25 Feb 2015 18:37:02
Its not just an improvement from last season its from the start of the season .

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25 Feb 2015 19:22:38
The thing that annoys me is both LVG and our Captain thought the performance was good enough against Swansea. It was slightly better but not what we are aiming towards, "the only thing we forgot was to score", who do you think you are kidding?!

Then you have LVG saying pre-season was good. We played awful, we just got results because teams were not fit and trying things out. The games could have gone either way easily, but he is using that as a benchmark for the future!

That should tell us all we need to know. What he is aiming for is so far below what we expect it's beyond words!

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25 Feb 2015 19:42:46
Great analysis Danny.

Been saying the same and truly believe many other managers would get a lot more out of this squad and many more points on the board by now. He us more hype and very poor man manager. If we end up losing players like DDG if true what is rumoured because of his abusive bs, the damage to the club will be a lot more than not finishing in the top 4.

This idea of give him more time is madness. What is time going to do if you are on the wrong path. Anyone who thinks Strootman is our solution is beyond his sell by date and he will spend money on players according to his vision that will even sink us more.

Let's face it we have been poor with a quality squad, so who is to blame.

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25 Feb 2015 20:47:43
GCU, Fresh

The DDG LvG "fall out" rumour is being put out by AS which is the Real Madrid mouthpiece used to try and unsettle players.

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25 Feb 2015 21:18:46
Isn't Marca the Madrid mouthpiece? My problem with De Gea is simply that the longer this drags on and if we fall further from the top 4 he will seriously consider his options. If the deal is not sealed by the end of March I think he may be gone.

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26 Feb 2015 15:39:26
Redman

The proof is in the pudding, let's see if he signs. One thing we know for sure, LVG's reputation and history has him falling out with players, and clubs.

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25 Feb 2015 12:20:47
Although only 17 years of age, youri tielemans is considered one of the 'brightest' midfielders in 'world' football? I know I probably pi**ing the edd's off so I do apologise about going on about this guy?

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{Ed002's Note - Try the search engine or the European page.}

25 Feb 2015 11:20:23
If de gea goes mouez hassen and Anthony lopes should be prime candidates?

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25 Feb 2015 11:52:03
Are they Belgian?

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25 Feb 2015 12:10:31
Funnily enough 'no' they are not! Haha! I might do an ancestral search on them! Haha! Good goalkeepers though, fairly young too!

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25 Feb 2015 11:19:13
Just a little post to show how inaccurate stats can be; 64% possession, 585 passes made with 86% completed, 206 of which were in the attacking 3rd with 80% completed, 14 of these were 'key' passes, and yet we only manifested 1 clear cut chance. These stats are similar to that of Barca last night, the key thing that's missing is that majority of our passes lack any insurgence or pace, we plod around the box we don't play with any pace or any sense of determination. That is down to LVG, I'm still waiting on it 'clicking' but I just don't see it happening, the players are there the quality going forward should have us in the title chase, just look at Liverpool last year they scored their way to second, this is what we should be doing. And that hurts to say.

(Sorry about the lack of paragraphs and what not, doing this on my phone under the table in a lecture 😉)

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25 Feb 2015 13:10:33
That gets a thumbs up just for the last sentence alone. Valid though.

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25 Feb 2015 10:02:26
Sam

" Now, with Liverpool and Arsenal looking very strong, I don't think we will make top four unless there is improvement on and off the field.

RVP being injured is a blessing as far as I am concerned. We might see a more balanced set up."

You are starting to sound like me mate lol Shoosh.

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25 Feb 2015 12:40:34
whats up with rvp? how long is he out? and i agree him being injured is a blessing he's not exactly played well so he won't be missed really

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25 Feb 2015 16:35:07
LOL

GCU, the team do need to raise the level of their performance and the manager needs to stop tinkering and trying to fit the big wage earners in and pick a team that is balanced and effective. He just don't have the time now to try new things with so much at stake.

With regards to RVP, I think his days are numbered at the club. I can't see him being here next season. He is playing awful as well and contributes very little.

With 12 game left, we need to pick up momentum taking us into the final run in, which looks tough. We need to be playing with a settled side with a settled formation IMO. It might not be pretty, but as long as we pick up the points needed to finish in the top 4, I'll take that and won't ask for more. Then next season, the manager can set about properly implementing his vision with players more suited to it.

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25 Feb 2015 19:57:02
Sam

I also want to be optimist and hope we pick up points. Unfortunately the last 12 games are against the better sides or away at teams fighting to stay up and our style of football is not going to win us a lot of games.

We need to play a 4231 with rooney as the striker and hopefully get carrick and blind sitting in front of the back 4 and have dimaria, herrera, mata behind rooney. Shaw and Rafael start for me as fullbacks, There is a lot of goals in that set up and defensively solid.

He just hates that set up and blind to it. Hell I will take a traditional 442.

Unfortunately he is too stubborn to change and the teams and the players surely can't be enjoying how we are struggling to beat lower level teams and coming unstuck against any decent team.

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25 Feb 2015 09:56:05
Watched the Juve V Dortmund game last night and i think the most refreshing thing watching it was both manager's in there technical area giving instructions, kicking every ball with the players. i think if lvg done this it would make fans warm to him a bit more.

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26 Feb 2015 06:16:14
I agree, waving arms for visibility means nothing but LvG is the only one I can think of that is not visibly commanding his players. Always liked Klopp and his demeanour is always excellent, he was the one I wanted last summer.

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25 Feb 2015 08:22:25
Interesting support for LVG from Gary Neville. Could it be that GN wants the seat kept warm for a couple iof seasons whilst he is learning the trade!

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25 Feb 2015 12:38:48
if fred flintstone was manager g.neville would say stick by the manager

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25 Feb 2015 04:46:49
Players ratings so far.
De geay - 9 world class
Jones - 6 too injury prone
Rojo - 7 continues improvement
Smalling - 6 inconsistent
Shaw - 5 very disappointing
Evans - 4 sell in summer
Valencia - 6 average
Herrara - 7 should be starting
Mata - 6 fair weather player
Demaria - 6 too light.not doing enough
Fellani - 6 limited, sloppy, awkward
Young - 7 most improved
Januzaj - 5 struggling to adapt
Vanpercie- 5 past best, sell summer
Rooney - 6 over paid, yet gives 100%
Falcao - 5 won't keep. Disappointing
Wilson - 6 still learning, potential

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25 Feb 2015 07:38:02
Interesting, paat from DDg you see Young as the highest rated player, along with Herrera who has hardly played. You've also given Jones 6 because he gets injured, and scored Rooney the same as Wilson, Mata, and Smalling. I'm not a Rooney fan but given where he has been being played, he has done his best; what he gets paid is irrelevant to his 'rating'

If Mata is a fair weather player, how come he was Chelsea's player of the year? Shaw is very disappointing? You must be watching different games to me, the lad looks full of potential. I understand the sentiment but it's somewhat simplistic to give a score out of 10

1 other small point, you managed to spell a quarter of the names wrong, a new world record I believe.

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25 Feb 2015 08:30:57
AJH,
I just love your "small point".

Chully, (you see what i did there :P )
Would have thought that for someone in a position to rate the players, you surely must have watched them enough to get most names right.?! That being said geay? Percie? Fellani? Herrara? DeMaria? You impressed me with Falcao and Januzaj though. Just having a laugh mate, nothing personal just banter!!!

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mbd              

25 Feb 2015 09:49:45
Agree with some of it but can not see how you rate Wilson and Rooney the same way and completely disagree on shaw.

It's easy to blame Rooney when things are not going well but i think he has been really good this year and the manager is playing him in areas he is not best at, but he gets on with it.

United fans have an unfortunate tendency to hail every new young player as Cesar on 5 minutes of a good performance. Remember reading on this page we had the next Ronaldo and scholes in Zaha, Powell

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25 Feb 2015 10:21:23
Best post since the Shhhhneyeder days :-)

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25 Feb 2015 11:13:19
Bless him, spelling just might be his strong point. . . . Just kidding, shame on you guys! ;o)

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25 Feb 2015 12:13:26
As mentioned above the best thing is that he managed to spell Falcao and Januzaj correct, the 2 names most people struggle to spell right on here!

Spelling mistakes and meaningless marks out of 10, my favourite. The marks for Rooney made me laugh, he gets 6 because he is overpaid but gives 100%. the same as Jones! As much as people hate to see Fellaini doing well because it's 'not the United way' he has been brilliant almost every time he has played this season.

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25 Feb 2015 17:03:19
Chilly mate, I'm only joking re the spelling, it's been bit of a theme for a while now. I've been spelling Herrera wrong all year

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