Manchester United Banter Archive July 25 2015

25 Jul 2015 23:15:15
Valencia at RB is a disaster waiting to happen, bad positioning and no real outlet. He maybe unfit but I am glad that we signed Darmian.

Lingard MOTM IMO, clinical finish along with a very good pass for Januzaj for the third. I'd start Lingard over Mata at the right wing.

James Wilson seems to have faded a bit and I'd really like to him score a goal and get more involved.

Depay looks confident on the ball and is quick on the turn and should really start at least a single game of the wing, would be a menace. Can't remember a single cross he made.

And did you the way Herrera turned out 2 players for a pass to the left. Herrera OMFG!

Jones could have red carded twice. I wish we had a more composed player and not the one falling over after a poor touch.

Blind could be a brilliant outlet to pass the ball out of defense but I expect him to struggle against better attackers.

Pedro did almost nothing all game. Don't think we need him, would get battered in the league.

First half we played with inverted wingers, second half as soon as lingard played on the right and Wilson on the left, the crosses were quicker.

Still think Young on the right, Depay left and Mata in the middle are the best positions. Depay far more quicker than Young.

25 Jul 2015 23:33:12
Is this Valencia's first game back from surgery? Don't be too harsh mate. He can do a good job against limited opposition but i do agree that in general he is an accident waiting to happen.
Wilson needs a loan move IMO. Reminds me too much of macheda.
Chases everything but looks like he needs an extra second or 2 on the ball to make anything happen. As much as i'd love to see him make it at Utd i fear he's never going to be good enough.

26 Jul 2015 00:22:57
What surgery benno? Vasectomy?

26 Jul 2015 00:55:20
Think it was his left leg GDS2.
Heard it was long overdue

26 Jul 2015 01:06:22
I didn't think Valencia was that bad. He defended Sandro's chance perfectly, denying the cutback for a shot first, and keeping him wide before blocking his cross.

Jones was the biggest worry in the back for me. He made a forward pass to our own penalty spot with Barca players only a step away. Shocking decisions from him at times.

25 Jul 2015 23:05:46
Good result. Fair play to the subs, they looked hungry when they came on. Darmian looks good. Can't help but think we still need a world class CB.

25 Jul 2015 23:04:03
Almost forgot how special de gea was, if we could somehow convince him to sign a new contract it would be the best signing we'll do all decade. Not just his shot stopping but his distribution is immense I honestly wouldn't swap him for anyone in the world.

25 Jul 2015 22:53:37
Adnan playing up top for the last half an hour, so that's him, Rooney, chicharito, Wilson and perhaps Depay that can play there. Don't think we're buying a striker lads.

25 Jul 2015 23:14:51
If we DO buy another striker i can see Hernandez being sold and/or Wilson being loaned. Wilson isn't ready for us yet IMO i just think he's all pace and not much else. Considering we scored so few goals last season i think we need a top notch alternative to Rooney. If he gets injured and we only have the players you mentioned Andy we could be up the creek without a paddle.

25 Jul 2015 23:15:59
I hope not.
Not that Llorente lad.
Berahino for me!

25 Jul 2015 21:55:35
I have been impressed this first half with the effort we are putting into closing down and overall running. Barca don't seem to have that drive so far and I would say Blind has had a good game along with Carrick and Sneiderlin's positioning.

I worry on a pitch like this that there is a chance of Injury and I would like to get our first team off it as soon as.

25 Jul 2015 22:12:21
a proper defender looks a great player strong fast and good positioning, finally replaced G Nev

25 Jul 2015 22:20:34
Can't really read too much into the performance. Barcelona with Neymar, mascherano and messi on the pitch is a total different proposition.

Hope the pitch does not claim any of our players we have some really important games in a week or two. Start of the league and champions league qualifiers.

I do wonder if our big signings are contingent on us getting through the qualifiers.

25 Jul 2015 22:33:36
Totally agree that Darmian is the best signing so far. Can't tell you how good it is to see a proper RB and not Valencia on the pitch. I personally would like to see Valencia sold and Raffael kept as cover.

25 Jul 2015 22:45:21
Anybody else a little concerned that if we perform well in these friendlies that we will not sign a CB or Striker.

Don't get me wrong I love seeing Utd doing well., but last summer we beat all comers including Real Madrid and Liverpool and we thought the season was going to be ok. Unfortunately when the real games (the league) started the wheels came off.

As crazy as it sounds I would like to see barca put 7 past us with us not having many shots at goal. Hopefully then we would sign Otamendi and Ramos with a little Lewandowski to finish off.

25 Jul 2015 23:11:06
Huggy,

That doesn't really make sense, last season we beat all comers and then signed di Maria and falcao.

25 Jul 2015 23:43:47
GDS2 it makes perfect sense, we need a replacement for Vidic and Rio last summer and signed a striker and a winger. We thought our defence was good enough and it wasn't.

If we can get a solid base/ defence with our new midfield we should be well placed for the season ahead. If we stick with the CB's we currently have, we might score a few more goals thanks to the midfield and depay, but I see us leaking lots of goals.

25 Jul 2015 23:45:53
Oh and I almost forgot we also ignored the need for a defensive midfielder last season. Maybe a destroyer in there last season might have helped our new defence settle.

26 Jul 2015 00:28:08
Yea good point actually, I would never want us to lose 7-0 but pretty sure LVG knows we need a centre back, the eds have told us we are negotiating for otamendi, ramos could be in the de gea deal and being linked to john stones in tomorrow's paper (best not go on the everton site for a while).

26 Jul 2015 01:13:08
I don't think Real or Bayern are waiting on the PSG result to decide whether to sell Ramos and Lewandowski or not.

25 Jul 2015 20:18:30
Anyone got an idea re new kit. Seems to be a lot of variation to these "leaked" photos

25 Jul 2015 20:42:09
I don't know but I'm hoping it is the Bayern Munich looking one

25 Jul 2015 21:03:33
If you Google it there is a story from only yesterday where a sports shop in America allegedly had the new kit on display by accident. Not sure if it is genuine , but it does appear to be legit. The pictures in the story show a typically retro style shirt , not dissimilar to the 1990 Sharp shirt but without the shoulder piping and a bigger white trim on the sleeve.
Very nice looking kit , although I don't think the Chevrolet logo will ever look good on a football shirt.

25 Jul 2015 21:12:46
I am hoping.it is the one with black stripes in. that looked good.
Not sure on the big white shirt sleeve ends!!

25 Jul 2015 22:00:46
I work in retail Betty and wouldn't be surprised if this were true, we get items sent to us with a release date but they often get put out months before official release, I'd keep an eye on that one if I were you.

25 Jul 2015 22:14:34
i wouldn't be surprised if it was delibrately leaked by Adidas, the shop in question may probably get a small fine and Adidas get so much pre release publicity clever ploy possibly

25 Jul 2015 23:01:06
The Daily Mail are covering the 'leaked' kit story. Seems legit, its shown in the adidas section of a sport shop in US, hanging amongst the Bayern and Real shirts. Very retro with a white V collar. As Betty says, similar to the 1990 shirt.

25 Jul 2015 20:20:20
Why hasn't smalling started a single pre season game? It worries me that this same line up is the one LVG will start the season with, Blind at CB? Unless Smalling is injuried I'm surprised why no one has questioned this.

25 Jul 2015 18:42:01
Nice easy world cup qualifying group for England, might as well not bother!

25 Jul 2015 20:11:57
I agree, might aswell let Woy hand pick the thing. England always get duffers.

25 Jul 2015 17:36:08
Maybe LvG thinks Depay carries more of a goal threat and can get more goals from the centre than from the wing, maybe that is why Mata plays on the right and Depay plays centrally.


But playing Mata on the right restricts us from creating width and space from the right side as we very rarely see Mata hugging the touchline as we get closer to the corner flag. That space is needed when playing against teams like Barca or Bayern.

{Ed004's Note - But mata coming centrally allows us to pack the midfield. It's the job of the right back (Darmian) to provide the width}

25 Jul 2015 18:23:20
Ed004 I agree with that and that's the part of darmian's game I'm hoping to see more of, in the first 2 games he has been quite conservative understandably.
However with Pedro / di maria on 1 side and depay on the other would allow us to play Mata behind Rooney and still drop off to pack midfield when required. Personally I prefer Mata more central his passing and movement is top class and his timing of his runs into the box is super.
I can seeing him rotating with Herrera in that position depending on opposition and tactics with the wide areas covered by depay young adnan and di Maria / pedro

{Ed004's Note - I think mata will start wide right but drift inside most of the game making him hard to mark}

25 Jul 2015 18:30:37
Mata probably has the best first touch at the club, the last couple of games we've seen long balls switched to the right hand side which he can control well. It's a good option to have.

25 Jul 2015 18:40:05
Agree with Ed here. LvG has said many times that he expects the width to come from the full backs. Old fashioned wingers that stick to the touchline are becoming a thing of the past , in my opinion at least.

25 Jul 2015 18:59:42
Agree Ed but Mata isn't really the type of midfielder we can use to "pack" the midfield right?

Superb passer no doubt about that but not the one to get stuck in. My choice is Herrera to be honest.

After last season I can't imagine a midfield without Herrera but unfortunaly I don't know why to me he looks the most likely to miss out on a starting berth due to the arrival of Schneiderlin and Schweinsteiger.

25 Jul 2015 15:01:54
Since we are all missing beast here, I'll do my best impersonation of him.
ADM good, bad or overrated was never a player known to be able to keep possession. He always takes a lot of risks whether he's passing or running with the ball. Brilliant as he is, he's not exactly known for his passing game like say ribery or even robben. Why then was he bought for the british transfer record into a system that he's absolutely designed to fail in?

25 Jul 2015 16:12:18
Because Woodward was making a statement showing we had money to spend and could still attract the biggest players despite no champions league.

Unfortunately he bought the biggest bottler the league has seen since pistone.

25 Jul 2015 16:15:51
yep its the systems fault as other teams don't need players who can pass, retain the ball and make smart decisions.

25 Jul 2015 16:31:06
Yes GCU, all teams need players with these qualities. However how well a player can do these things will decide which system suits him best. Looking at ADM, possession isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Counter attack is the system that suits him,which is why he excelled at madrid

{Ed004's Note - But every possession team needs someone who will try that risky pass at some stage. Some of Di Maria's passing was brilliant at the start of the season. Get a fit and confident Di Maria and he could offer us a lot. A whole new dimension. I think there could be a small chance that Depay is being played centrally in order for us to have a position for Di Maria out left}

25 Jul 2015 16:52:43
I'm all for it ed. I am not bashing adm or questioning his ability. I am merely saying that for a guy who talks so much about playing style, philosophy and formations down to the last details, lvg could have gone with a lot of "lesser" wingers that suited his system better.

{Ed004's Note - Well hopefully Di Maria impresses on tour. I thought LvG personally named Di Maria as a top winger before he signed}

25 Jul 2015 18:21:13
Ed004 u could have stuck up for me in my stick about di maria haha 😂

{Ed004's Note - I was just back from work and was too tired haha}

25 Jul 2015 20:04:00
Oh thanks mate!!!! Skysports vinnie O'connor says we want to keep di maria, especially lvg!!!!!! But also psg are trying hard to get him and 60 million euros is the price ed Woodward has set! Is this your understanding?

25 Jul 2015 08:39:58
Busy day yesterday, so didn't get time to post. Been reading through all yesterday's posts this morning.
Going back to the ADM debate, for me the issue isn't just his poor form last season. I think we can allow a foreign player, from a completely different culture, a "settling in" period. The problem with ADM is, he never really wanted to be here in the first place. He came for the money, end of. I still maintain United, as a club, wanted to make a "statement" to the football world last summer. And they chose to do that by making a massive signing. Everyone knew that, and ADM was one of the few big names available.
At the end of the day, we were the only club stupid (or desperate?) enough to pay the asking price and the wages.
People who think he is one of the best players in the world are going on reputation alone. They clearly have not seen much of him on a regular basis. For every "great" game he has, he has 5 or 6 bad ones. You may get away with that in team of superstars playing in a less competitive league. You certainly won't in the EPL. If he genuinely wanted to be here, I think he would have a lot more backing from the fans. But is is here for one thing, and that is money.
I would be happy, from a football point of view, if he stayed and became the player that we all want him to be. But I don't think he has the desire to do that. So if PSG want him, and stump up the money, we should wish him well and let him go.
And all this talk of a massive loss may or may not be correct. I think only Brendan made the right point about his "value" yesterday. A player is an asset and has purchase value spread over the length of his contract. £60m over 5 years is £12m a season. So £48m ish would be about right, at least from a business point of view.
Not sure if those figures are 100% accurate in the case of ADM, but is serves as an example.
Personally, I hope we sell ADM, and use the money to buy a good player who wants to play for Manchester United, rather than just wants the money that we will pay.

25 Jul 2015 09:52:19
The most sensible Adm post I have seen Betster

25 Jul 2015 09:57:15
Couldn't agree more Betty. A great player is not only judged on skill. Attitude, professionalism, desire, leadership, enthusiasm. All these have to be in place. Unfortunately, as you say, ADM does not appear to have any of these.
From day one, he has looked like someone who wants to be somewhere else.
We cannot carry passengers in our team.

25 Jul 2015 10:31:40
Schmidfield

Day one is a little harsh. I thought his first few games were exciting, the goal at Leicester outstanding, then he seemed to dip.
In terms of what happens I wouldn't be upset if he left as long as he is properly replaced. I am of the opinion we need a striker to compete at the top level whatever ADM does. If ADM leaves I am torn as to whether to give Pereira more time because he might have something or to buy a Reus or Bale. Yet if we want to win something we need to have the best players now.

25 Jul 2015 10:38:01
Great post Betty,

We should not keep an unhappy player and replace him with another winger.

25 Jul 2015 10:57:31
If you were to put your world 11 down on paper this time last year i'm pretty sure ADM would be in a lot of peoples teams even before we signed him .He was Real's better player every time i saw them and started off great for us.For some to say get rid doesn't seem right TBH even Torres never lost his powers that quick .Man Utd should be in for every player who people think would get in their World 11 every season .His personal problems will of had a factor on some of his performances but he will get back to the player we all know he is.But if he is wanting to go then so be it .I still think its 90% media rubbish

25 Jul 2015 11:26:13
does anyone really know if ADM wants to be here or not.
do we know what's going on in his private life.
for me at the start of the season he was the stand out player in league ,which was a carry over from the previous season where he was one of the best players about.
then he got injured house broke into and lost his form

25 Jul 2015 12:21:21
Bfro. I think personal problems have a big say. And if it is true that his family have not settled here then there's nothing tat can be done. Paris might be more glamorous so they might prefer it there, though I hasten to add, that Paris won't be any safer than Manchester. What happened to him and his family with regards the break in is really bad, but unfortunately shit happens. They need to deal with it as a family and think in 6 years time they can live anywhere they want and not worry about a thing. So he has to be professional and put his foot down.

25 Jul 2015 12:45:24
Don't think we can value a player based on the fee decided by years left on contract. We paid £18m for de Gea and he has 1 year left, does that mean we're happy to take £3.5m for him this season? That be fair? Doesn't work like that. Di Maria is a top player, and he showed that at Madrid, and in his first 7 games for us. Now there's only one thing we need to know, does he want to play for us. If yes, use him to his strengths and you have a top player. If no, then sell immediately and £50m would be a good price

25 Jul 2015 13:21:33
Stand , the situation with DeGae is different. We bought him as a young keeper with potential. His value has risen dramatically inmreal terms , but as he has only 1 year left on his contract , interested parties know they can get him for nowt in a years time. We over paid for DiMaria , and after such a poor season we will not get what we paid for him.
I know what I said above is only theoretical about price and length of contract , and in reality , clubs would always want to make a profit. But also remember the issue of wages. One of the Eds told us he is the highest paid player in EPL history. I don't know figures , but I would guess that means in excess of 250 grand a week for someone who couldn't dislodge Ashley Young from the team.
And going back to the fee/ length of contract thing , that is exactly why , if Madrid won't pay what we want now , we are prepared to keep DeGae for the last year of his contract and let him leave next year for nothing.

25 Jul 2015 14:17:48
Not doubting we overplayed for Di Maria, but I still feel if he is played in a system that suits and style that suits him he is easily one of our most talented players. If we're not going to use him in s system that plays to his strengths then why on earth did we shell out £60m for him. I'd personally like to sell him if we could replace with either Bale, or Reus. If not I'd keep him

{Ed004's Note - I wonder if LvG is playing Depay centrally so there is a spot on the left side for Di Maria?}

25 Jul 2015 14:41:48
Great post stand united

25 Jul 2015 14:42:17
So is ed004 hopeful he'l stay too or am I the only one?

{Ed004's Note - If he wants to stay and improves his attitude and works hard that would be brilliant however if he isn't settled and pushing for a move then I would let him go depending on the offer}

25 Jul 2015 17:18:10
No way will ADM suffer from Torres syndrome he is just too talented and assists are a major part of his game.Even the shit season he just had only Fabregas made more.He will be back

25 Jul 2015 19:25:51
Spot on post. Can't believe 5 disagreed with it. A player is only worth what a club will pay for him. You may think your house is worth £350k but if most anyone will pay is £300k looks like you have a £300k house!

25 Jul 2015 19:58:23
Or we could all get off his back and support him as long as he's one of our players! As long as he's contracted to us, and anyone else for that, we should get behind them and all pull together to get back to where we belong.

25 Jul 2015 20:30:40
I will support anyone who wears the shirt as long as they put in the effort and have the desire to fight for the club. What I don't support is players who are only here for the cash and not prepared to put in the graft. I don't claim to know anything about ADM personally , but actions speak louder than words.
I still believe is only come here because we were the only ones willing to pay what was being asked for in both fee and wages.

25 Jul 2015 08:05:35
On one hand we have people who'd be happy if we get around 45m for adm from psg, then we remember this is the same team that paid 50m for david luiz.

25 Jul 2015 08:28:59
That's because Luiz is twice the player ADM is

25 Jul 2015 09:00:08
Fair point , but also remember that Arsenal signed Sanchez for around £35m , and Chelsea got Hazard for a bit less than that , I believe. It's not just the transfer fee , but just as importantly the astronomical wages for someone who will likely be warming the bench.

25 Jul 2015 09:46:32
Ajh
With your avatar, i can never tell whether you're trying to make a valid point or the usual.

25 Jul 2015 10:39:44
Lol, I was having a laught but I do like Luiz, I'm just not sure he's a CB. He gets stuck in, he cares, he is passionate, and he has huge ability. As GN said though his positioning is shocking which makes him a liability at CB. I think he should play in midfield, he would be a beast (although he did sob like a girl after the WC final)

25 Jul 2015 16:14:45
Ability and luiz in the same sentence!!!

25 Jul 2015 01:25:38
If Falcao, Di Maria (if he goes) and Van Persie start scoring goals for fun and we keep tapping the ball across the field all day, MR VG is going to come under serious pressure.

I know regular posters keep saying forget about the fergie style but surely we expect a bit of flair to come back into our game. (games won where fellaini was the M.O.T.M don't count)

Before anyone says it, i base nothing on pre-season games either positive or negative. It just occurred to me that if Falcao starts banging them in and we struggle for goals or even opportunities to score LVG is going to get hockeyed.

hope LVG has a master plan and we get to start singing songs about somebody running down the wing again and somebody who scores goals, goals just scores goals.

{Ed007's Note - That's a sensible post, are you sure you're on the right site?}

25 Jul 2015 02:13:03
I understand where you are coming from but unfortunately Falcao didn't show enough to warrant the price tag that Monaco had on him, a second loan season may have been a good idea but on lower wages as he is reportedly on at Chelsea

Van persie was great for us in the first season but then injuries started returning the last 2 seasons, I have my doubts that he is up to the physical demands of the premier league anymore

Di Maria, if he is not happy and not settled then the chances of him showing the form he had at Madrid are slim so selling may be a good idea if he wants to go, I'm more than happy to bring in another winger and see what delay and pereira (spelling?) can do, people seem to think that we have gone away from our belief in youth but by all reports we have some very talented youngsters coming through

On LVG, he finally has his squad, he has done a full overhaul in 12 months, I expect a couple more players to come in to complete the squad, we must challenge and probably win the title and go deep in the champions league this year or I can't see him with us next year, i'm quite optimistic on our chances this year

25 Jul 2015 02:29:10
Falcao is going to be driven more than ever to prove himself. And then there's Mourinho who is really good at getting players fight for him. After we have given him such a well-paid warm up to the EPL, I can't think of any better way to have helped Chelsea!

I think we will see this season what Van Gaal is on about. We definitely swept apart some top teams with decent flair last season. So, it also depends on the players to turn up and produce their full potential. The manager can only lay down the plan, the players need to put that into effect. Di Maria wasn't anywhere near to his standards but still look at how many assists he produced. We have a top player here. We need to keep him and give him some freedom on the pitch.

25 Jul 2015 07:13:02
Ajred and Redatheart i disagree with you on falcao, his determination or drive or whatever you want to call it has nothing to do with his failure at utd,he came off a career threatening injury which has taken away his acceleration which has made him half as good a striker as he was pre injury much like rooney, it is not an attribute he can just get back, also can you guys tell me why he is suddenly going to start banging goals in if he plays for chelsea, he may play marginally more games for them than he did for us but he will not get a consistent run unless costa gets injured for a long period, i know which striker i prefer chelsea play more and it is not costa. He had touch of a baby elephant last season and similar finishing ability, it is not something he is just going to get back out of the blue without a run of games.

Also are we talking about the same mourinho who managed torress and shevchecnko, mou is good but he is not some sort of a magicain.

25 Jul 2015 07:26:53
Falcao more so I would say due to remaining in the prem. The main accusation of adm is that he couldn't handle the prem so if he goes to the french league I wouldn't say he's proved anybody wrong. Just as a counter, if Falcao flops will LVG be viewed more positively?

25 Jul 2015 07:53:35
I'm only worried about Falcao as he's in the PL. I think he'll be a massive hit for Chelsea. And jm will play him facing the opposition goal which was the mistake lvg made as he always played with his back to goal at United.
I don't care what rvp or adm if he moves, do in their respective leagues as neither leagues are as competitive as the PL.

25 Jul 2015 09:56:03
If Falcao does well it will be a contributing factor as to the amount of service he gets /system they play
ADM - different league and again system
RVP more likely to him being fit more than in EPL.
overall it doesn't matter how well these players perform for others, in the first 2 cases its how they performed for Manutd.
Regarding RVP, he was the catalyst behind our last EPL title but a mix of fitness, age and financial reasons led to him being moved on. I think he will thrive in Turkey but then again I would be a world beater in Icelandic football.