Manchester United Banter Archive October 25 2012

25 Oct 2012 22:53:19
Everyone always moaning about our supposedly 'weak' midfield.. I think Fergie's plan for the future is for Rooney to replace Scholes. I don't care what anyone says Rooney looks class as a center mid. His passing capabilities are incredible, he has two feet, he sees the game brilliantly and we all know he can score goals! With young Powell, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson and Cleverly, CM is clearly a position where we are absolutely fine! Although we all wish Fergie would go out and buy a 'world class' CM I think we already have a few.. Rooney will become a CM and replace Scholes.. just watch.

Good job you left no name, prepare to be slated. Every man and his dog can see in midfield we are not 'absolutely fine'.

GDS

I think Rooney will always just be our trequartista/playmaker. Sometime's he will be slightly further forward depending on formation/opposition and sometimes deeper. I suppose there is a resemblance to Scholes who began his career further forward and gradually moved deeper. I don't think Scholes can literally be replaced though. I can't see us signing Xavi, iniesta or Pirlo.

Supasub

I don't think Rooney is suited to a midfield two as he doesn't have the discipline to hold his position, you can see it when he plays as a striker but wonders off to find the ball rather than hold his position for the right moment. I think he could be part of a midfield three as the furthest player forward but thats not much different to what he does now if were honest.

Shappy

Agree with Shappy, the deepest Rooney should play is the front of a midfield 3. What we really need is a big presence to play as one of the 2 holding CM'ers behind him. Someone who can add defensive cover whilst behing comfortable in possession. Rooney would be wasted having to track back defensively for large portions of the game, as he would in that position

Gav

25 Oct 2012 22:10:13
Ed4 asked me further down who I thought the 3 players were who could complete us.

Ed,

I can't pretend that I know much about players around Europe and the world, I only know from watching clips and what people have said on here so I cannot say with any great shakes who the 3 players are. I think we need a left back, a top class centre midfielder and a replacement for nani. If vidic doesn't come back to how he was then another centre half may be needed and I think a 2nd top quality centre mid would be a luxury but one we may need especially if we lose nani, Anderson, giggs and scholes before next summer.

Off the top of my head:

Ogbonna
Strootman
Rodriguez

But like I said I am not too well up on players across Europe. I still think baines would be brilliant for us and still gutted we missed out on Dembele, he is everything we needed in the summer.

GDS {Ed004's Note - I agree about Dembele and Baines. However, I do not see why people keep putting up Strootman. He is a very slow player and people on here seem to suggest we should play fast football. He also does not excel defensively or offensively and he does not dictate the flow of a game. Just my opinion on him. I rate both Rodriguez and Ogbonna highly}

Take out Strootman and replace him with Sandro and i'd be exstatic.

Shappy

Heard conflicting stories on strootman, that he has been taking control of games this season and has looked great, that's the reason I put him in, off the top of my head. How about Vidal? Maybe he would be what we are looking for. I would imagine Eriksen is still on our radar as well. I can't believe that fergie hasn't got some idea of the player he wants, but we have all thought that for 3 years!

I have still enjoyed the last 3 games at old Trafford (even the spurs 2nd half) more than most games last season. We are scoring for fun like in the past, hopefully we can sort the defence out, we usually do to be fair.

Also I read someone say before we are out of the title race if we lose on Sunday. What a load of rubbish. 7 points behind in October, I wouldn't think we were out of it 7 points behind in march. Remember until the spurs game Chelsea hadnt played any big games and they are trying to go through the season with 1 striker.

GDS

Not sure who you've been watching but Strootman isn't slow...

rpc

Wanyama strootman benatia isco fischer for 60m id take

with 30 m recouped by selling andersson carrick nani macheda etc

What does the ed know about diego rolan
uruguaian winger and rumours of hector herreara joining in august were strong only for an injury to halt the deal! is it the opinion signings like herrera fischer wanyama ince rolan shawcross and benatia are more likely than hummels gotze strootman and rodriquez cjwales82 {Ed002's Note - Nothing on Rolan in respect of Manchester United.}

Papadopolous (or Hummels); Vidal (or Wanyama), Rodriguez

Out: Giggs, Scholes, Nani, Bebe, Kiko, King, Maybe later depending on money for replacements and injuries: Evra, Ferdinand.

Kuala

Strootman is slow but he has pace. I think ed meant slow as in slows down play, hangs on the ball too much.

I dont know where this whole " strootman is the new keane " propagandda came from, but its totally untrue. He is a playmaker, more paul scholes than roy keane, plays a very attacking role and his tackling and interception is mediocre.

He is a good passer and can drag the team forward but often goes missing in big games. We have Anderson who can do the exact same role, just better when fit.

If e were to but a playmaker, veratti, eriksen, gundogan and adam maher would be much better than him.

Mick

Sell Nani for 18, Anderson 10, Macheda 5, Bebe 2 for a total of 35 million.

Buy

Goetze 25 , Hummels 25, Rodrigues 25, LB 15. 90 total and get on with it.

I know its 55 million but a club like ours should be able to afford it.

Shahram

Heard conflicting stories on strootman, that he has been taking control of games this season and has looked great, that's the reason I put him in, off the top of my head
gds

you should really judge a player on what you see not what you hear.

ive been quite critical about the standard of football produced by united over the last few years but ive got to say this year the standard may not be great but the entertainment is great
jred

Jred,

You will notice I rarely comment on players we should buy unless they are in the premier league as I don't watch much foreign football.

The ed asked me for who I thought the 3 players were so I came up with 3 based on seeing bits of them and what I've heard. I thought I made that quite clear.

GDS

I have watched a few PSV games and still maintain he is not a defensive midfielder if that is what people think we should be going after which I don't (goetze, Ozil would be incredible). He plays a lot more up the pitch ala lampard. Hard to tell how quick he is as the game is watched there was nothing to make me believe he is slow. I wish we had bought Dembele, I think he would be ideal for us.



Shahram

25 Oct 2012 20:08:59
Does anyone think that ole could someday come and manage us? I'd love it!

Caolán.

Yes without a doubt there is a chance of it.... To be honest I actually pretty intrigued into whether the Glazers will take the fans consideration on who they appoint when its time to... I have a funny feeling they will not and we will end up with O'Neill or Moyes who are decent but not top level champions league winning managers.

I don't think the Glazers will take what the fans think into consideration when choosing the next manager, but they will listen to Sir Alex who is the guy they talk to when they wanna know something about football.

Shappy

Fergy has said the next manager will have to be experienced at working at the top with good european experience.

i think our next manager will be an established big name
jred

With due respect O'Neill and Moyes could well be Champions League winning managers...but its hardly going to happen with Everton and Sunderland now is it? Moyes in particular has over achieved most years with little or no funds available to him and Everton are punching above thier weight so far this season also.

25 Oct 2012 18:29:06
I want to focus on one particular area of our summer transfer window and see if it can lead to a bit of a debate. We were 'allegidly' looking at Hazard, then Rodriguez and then Moura. So, with Nani probably about to leave the club, I imagine that we will be looking at similar players to those who we went for in summer. I see us as needing a versatile attacking midfielder who is like half winger / half AM.

We will surely be targeting one of these:

- Isco
- El Shaarawy
- Muniain
- Gotze
- Neymar
- Ozil

Off the top of my head, these are some of the few players that I think we would be interested in. Say for example we signed Gotze, we could then play:

Gotze - Rooney - Kagawa

We would then also have the options of playing Valencia and Young if we want more width. This would give us a good balance of options.

Question is, out of all the name, who do you think is the most likely to arrive? I would like Ozil / Gotze. If that was not to happen then Isco would be my ideal.

Fresh! {Ed004's Note - Rodriguez?}

I would prefer Ozil over Gotze, He is left-footed and therefor would give something a little different to the side. If we couldn't get him then my other choices would be Rodriguez/Isco.

-JakeW

Just can't see Rodriguez. I think Porto will fleece us for every single penny, just as SAF has said. The only thing that I could see is that we could use Anderson as part of the deal?

Ed, would you say any of the above is possible?

Fresh! {Ed004's Note - The only players on that list I feel we would struggle to get would be Shaarawy and Neymar. The rest would all cost under 30 million imo with Ozil being the most expensive with Gotze and Isco being the cheapest. I think Muniain is worth it as he is able to play as a winger easily and some of the others don't have that capability. However, would love Neymar just to bring that X factor to speak of back to united, something we have lacked since Ronaldo but it'll never happen}

I agree Ed, so realistically, if your hand was forced, who would you say we are most likely to see in summer?

Fresh! {Ed004's Note - I would say Rodriguez, followed by Ozil and Gotze, then Isco and Muniain after them}

Interesting as I would have thought signing Isco would be far more likely than Ozil or Gotze!

Fresh! {Ed004's Note - Probably, I wouldn't mind anyone or even two on that list.}

Seriously guys how is el shaarawy suddenly good enough to play for us and why would we want to buy him. AC Millan are rubbish at the moment and guys like him are getting into the team.

I can't see Goetze or Neymar or Ozil. maybe Munian or isco if we sell Nani

Shahram

Personally, I'd say that realistically we are looking at this for next year:

______________DDG
Rafael__Smalling____Vidic__Baines
_______Strootman__Cleverly
____Kagawa___Rooney___Rodriguez
_______________RVP

That could be realistic.

Fresh! {Ed004's Note - One change I would make would be Vidal instead of Strootman. Also positional wise I would swap Kagawa and Rodriguez but it is a fluid attack so it wouldn't matter anyways. The only positions I could see us needed to address would be CB for Rio or Vidic, I feel one could be replaced. If Vidic was I would recommend Hummels or Papadopoulos and if Rio was replaced an understudy such as Ogbonna, Benetia or even Shawcross.}

Can't see Ferdinand or Vidic leaving, however I would like Ferdinand to be replaced.

Would you rather have Isco or Rodriguez?

Fresh! {Ed004's Note - Rodriguez, think he offers slightly more as he can play on the wings as well as a CAM.}

Isco also plays cam aswell as the wings

marlow

Ed 004, i think you d see that Isco can play effectivly anywhere across the front 3 in a 4-2-3-1, and Rodriguez is not as good through the middle as he is on the left, even less on the right.

But i think Isco lacks pace and workrate even though he is a great dribbler and has good vision, so i think our best option is muniain. This kid doesnt have running. He's got the passion and the workrate of a young rooney, along with the skills to make it at the very top.

Mick {Ed004's Note - I rate muniain highly he is a top player so would gladly take him though would still love Ozil and Rodriguez}

25 Oct 2012 17:15:14
Ferguson admitted the injury to Shinji Kagawa forced his hand, the Japan international was forced off with a knee injury and replaced by winger Nani.

The move saw United switch from a midfield diamond formation to a more traditional 4-4-2 set-up which laid the foundations for the Reds to turn the tie on its head and run out 3-2 winners.

"Shinji twisted his knee," revealed Ferguson. "We had to take him off. He struggled on for 20 minutes after he got the injury. We'll assess it in the morning as it's too early to say what the damage is.

"I was confident the diamond would be important for us but, when you're 2-0 down, it's easy for them to kill the game by playing it out wide.

"So we had to change things with Nani on the right and [Wayne] Rooney on the left. Kagawa's injury forced my hand to play Nani as a wide player and it made a difference in terms of their possession."

a lot of talk about the diamond on tuesday here's fergy thoughts
jred

25 Oct 2012 16:03:31
How about this for a suggestion:
The Fa Cup winner gets a Champions league spot.
Teams who finish 3,4,5,6 play in a play off for the final Champions league berth.
No more dead games around the last few weeks of the season.
It will bring competition back into the FA Cup and some much needed glamour.

Neil

That means Crawley Town can get a champions league spot. {Ed004's Note And they would deserve it for getting that far IMO}

But what if a lower league club wins the FA Cup?

Neil,

I've felt this for a while, I can't believe 4th spot get's a Champions League Spot! What other sport in the World rewards finishing 4th?

Imagine a team won the FA Cup but finished 5th on goal difference by 1 goal but during the season they had a genuinely good goal disallowed or basically any dodgy decision against them that cost them 4th spot and the team that finished 4th got knocked out of both cups early doors and maybe not even in Europe that season? Who would deserve a champions league spot?

I also think it would add so much to the FA Cup as well, like 004 says, if Crawley did win it or more likely a Championship Team or a lower half of the table team like Liverpool (Cheap shot! :)) then they would deserve that spot but it would also make that champs league exciting, Real Madrid rocking up at Peterborough United would be quality, it would give some smaller teams if they achieved the miracle a chance to stay afloat with the revenue they would make in that season!

I'm all for it!

Ports

If a team from a lower division won the fa cup, would they even win the qualifying rounds for the cl?

For anyone worried about a small club winning the FA cup in these circumstances, forget it.

With a Champions League spot at stake, you'd find the big clubs taking it a lot more seriously than they do now.

Think it's a great idea to bring back some lustre back to the old trophy, and let clubs be rewarded for actually winning something.

StevieK

Bearing in mind even without the promise of champions league football a team like Crawley hasn't made the quarter final yet how could anyone suggest they would win it?

GDS

25 Oct 2012 14:38:49
is there any updates on vidic's injury? {Ed002's Note - About a month out.}

25 Oct 2012 12:18:51
I think the reason Wootton didn't play is obvious if you think about it. He is a decent player but i would be suprised if he was still here beyond the summer. We have better younger players coming through in Keane and Blackett and some talented lads in still in the academy and Rio Vidic Evans Smalling and Jones are better than him currently. He seems like a nice lad and i hope he has a good career but i doubt it'll be with us.

I think he will play in games where he'll catch the eye and hopefully raise his value rather than risk him lowering in by being exposed in europe with the world watching.

As for Phelan, i have no love for that man. His obvious lack of tactical know how is for all to see. But were in that awkward position where we can't get rid of him as Sir Alex himself is only likely to be around a season or two more. I think the best we can hope for is a job swap between Phelan and Warren Joyce who seems to have a good understanding of the game. The only problem with that though is would it be a good idea to leave the important job of teaching the kids to Phelan? Maybe if Giggs retired and did the job of coaching the kids with Phelan would limit the damage he does to them.

Shappy

I have only one problem with your post, but it's one I have a problem with in a lot of posts. What makes everyone think that Giggs will be a good coach/manager? Awesome player but I don't think he has the tactical awareness or the footballing brain to make a great coach/manager. Scholes would be a far better option in my opinion, he has a much better grasp!

Percy

Percy,

Forget whether you think he should or shouldn't be playing for United at this point, Ryan Giggs has continued to play still at 39 years old, he has learnt to adapt to the game as the game has changed and stayed at the top, I'm sure you can appreciate the game is alot different to what it was back in 1991. He has changed his game just as much as Scholes so I think you are doing him an injustice to suggest he doesn't have the tactical awareness or footballing brain, wasn't he our best player a couple of years ago as a CM?!

Giggsy's football brain is tremendous, just cause his legs won't do what they used to be able to do doesn't mean his brain is any slower. He has made it clear he wants to stay in Football and has already completed his coaching badges and is going on the pro licence next year.

Scholesy had a stint with Warren Joyce and came back to playing so maybe he decided coaching/management is not for him?

I think one of the biggest reason that the gaffer keeps Giggs involved is because of his experience and the aura he has around the changing room so when he does retire then having that to pass on to the younger players and being someone they can look up to in football terms can only inspire these younsters?

Ports

I agree completely with you Percy, and expected better from Shappy. Giggs can't even see that he is past it, how the bloody hell can he then coach others. I can't understand how people think like this.

J Bones.

This is the same Percy who continually defends Nani and thinks he's great. Ryan Giggs is a legend, he has set records that will never be beaten - apparently the key to our upturn in form last season was a team talk Giggs gave telling the rest of the squad that their standards were simply not high enough. I have no idea if he will make a good coach / Manager but after 20 years playing under SAF I'm guessing he will. He is playing because he has been asked to, the fact SAF is probably using him unwisely is not his fault.

AJH

I'm not sure how anyone can claim that Giggs doesn't have a good footballing or tactical brain. Unless we get inside his mind then none of us know for sure. However the guy HAS reinvented himself over the years and has managed to hold his own for the majority of a 20 year career in the worlds fastest, most physical league.

TK-Red

I though robson and kean would of been good managers but look how that turned out.
jred

25 Oct 2012 10:53:09
Is anyone of the opinion that we should really try and buy Eriksen from Ajax... watched him last night and really showed he is a good player IMO.... What are your thoughts guys?

Charlie

Call the doctor, bad case of MOTD fever!

People have been talking about him on this site for the last 2 years.

GDS

U stole my words mate. I came to post this only. He is the only 1 gifted midfielder who look same as scholes and his movement is like xavi.. Awesome buy for our current 4 4 2 system. Or even upper midfield with cleverly with a tough guy like bendner protecting them
Rodio17

My favourite kind of spelling error/typo. Rodio, you are one letter away from suggesting we try one of two very talented Bender brothers in the heart of our midfield. You are also one letter away from suggesting we try Ian Poulter look-alike Nicklas Bendtner as our holding man.

Nizza

Sorry nizza mate.. I have posted abt sven bandner on rumour page. Then immidiatly i replied here so it happened. But i clearly mean sven..
Rodio17

Nizza, you might be onto something.

Andrew B

I think if our scouts beleive he would be able to evolve into a central midfielder he would be a bargain, but as an attacking midfielder, he is not the best option out there: Muniain, goetze and isco are all much better players. If we are going Dutch than Adam Maher has a shout.

Mick

25 Oct 2012 07:18:27
what our team need is Stephan El Shaarawi , Ryan Shawcross and Moutinho...................sign them and we will rule again!!!ft9

Who's ur team?

Big mac