Manchester United Banter Archive August 26 2014

26 Aug 2014 23:17:44
I'm hoping this post will manage to find it's way onto the banter page although expect it will be one of hundreds tonight that end up in the baron wasteland that is 'other posts'.

Last season yielded some terrible performances. If I had to pick I'd say that at the time the game against Fulham was the worst I have ever seen a Manchester United side play. Tonight's performance somehow managed to eclipse that.

One would think that a team comprising of young and fringe players would have the motivation to go out there and get a result - especially given how poorly we've started our campaign. A good performance tonight could help players to stake a claim for a spot in the first team. Apparently not. It looked like a group of strangers had been rounded up at the local park and dressed up in Manchester United kits.

I appreciate that the team was nowhere near our first choice 11 - but it's worth remembering that the starting 11 had made over 850 senior appearances for the club between them. These are players that at present could become first choice depending on an injury here or there - and ultimately they are Manchester United players. Not one of them performed like it tonight.

Putting aside the fact that our passing was abysmal for a moment; the players looked scared. You would think they were facing Real Madrid rather than a league one team. If I didn't know better I'd have thought that we were the league one team it was that bad.

People will come to the team's defense pointing out that they are adapting to a new formation; but ultimately the fundamentals weren't good enough. There was no decent link up between the players and the passing was awful. Defensively we were shocking and I don't recall their keeper having to make a save (aside from a shot from miles out that was never going to go in). These are fundamental skills. Tackling, Passing, Shooting are constants regardless of what formation a side is playing.

I know I am not the manager - but for me the formation just isn't working. I appreciate that it allows Rooney, Mata and RVP to play in their favoured positions (although with the signing of Di Maria I don't see how we won't be playing one of them out of position now) - but it also adds pressure to other areas of the pitch where we're already weak because of the quality of players in those positions.

Perhaps if we give it a few months we might start performing - but maybe we wont. I still think we need a top CB, solid CM and a decent RWB to make this formation work and I don't see any of them being signed between now and next week. There's also a good chance that our season will be over by the time things start to click. I think the League Cup was probably our only real chance of winning anything this season and more than likely our only chance of playing in Europe next season.

I'll preface this paragraph by saying that I am not calling for LVG to be sacked; but he certainly deserves some criticism for how our season has started. How he can come out and say 'It will take three months for us to start playing well' and 'it will take a miracle to win the title' I do not know. It will not do the players' confidence any good and almost gives them an excuse to perform poorly. It's also not very reassuring for anybody associated with the club that LVG seems to be making excuses before a ball had been kicked.

From a performance point of view - we've been poor in our last two games and weren't great in the first. A lot of that is down to the new formation and the players as much as LVG - but tonight's team selection was shocking and his omission of any game changers on the bench has cost us the game tonight. Somebody said earlier that he 'had balls' for his team selection. I'd say that it was naive and arrogant.

Transfer wise things could have gone a lot better. Our midfield and defense still need a lot of work and whilst there's still time left in the window - I think our business should have been completed a lot sooner. Di Maria will be a good signing - but spending £64m on him when we're still in need of a CB and CM is certainly questionable. I think we'll sign Blind - but he's not the answer.

If David Moyes had started this way he'd have been crucified by the fans. He was for a lot less. LVG has added £140m's worth of talent to the team and is somehow managing to perform worse than Moyes. We're still struggling to make chances, still lacking confidence, still picking up more injuries than we should be, still failing to win games that on paper we should be winning and still playing dull, unattractive football.

LVG needs to stop banging on about his 'philosophy' and start getting results. I don't care what he has done in the past; I care about what he does with Manchester United - and so far I am not impressed. He should be given time; but losing to MK Dons and Swansea at home given the squad at his disposal is not good enough regardless of how long he's been at the club.

I'll end on a positive as this post is incredibly negative and I imagine there will be plenty of a similar tone on here tonight (I've just got in and started writing this and so am yet to check). James Wilson looked very good when he came on. His movement and energy was a joy to watch and if he can work on his passing I can see him having a very successful career for both club and country. I hope he makes the bench this weekend ahead of both Welbeck and Chico.

{Ed007's Note - Don't say I'm not good to you.}

That 140 million pounds worth of new talent hasn't featured yet.

Good post, agree wilson was the only bright spot

Good post

Bond - Many thanks. Don't tell the other Ed's - but you're my favourite!

samthered - Perhaps if we'd done our business early they might have been able to make a difference. Apparently it was more important to give Nani, Anderson and Cleverley yet another chance to prove that they are not good enough.

{Ed007's Note - I sensed that x x

Wilson and Perreira were the only players with any semblance of pride. I am still trying to put the blame on someone, wondering is it Rooney or Moyes? I am genuinely interested in the views of posters like Redman today. Just so that I am clear, I don't blame LVG one bit for what I saw, the players are simply not good enough. I hope people wake up and see this.

Deeps.

I'll also try to stay positive.

Let's get the obligatory moan out the way.

That was disgraceful. We're MUFC. Our youth should be able to at least scrape a win over League 2 opposition especially when we have supposed first-teamers scattered throughout.

Evans – rusty, I don't mind the lad so won't hold this performance against him.

Welbeck – plenty of blood and guts little product, as per usual. I'd love him to stay as backup, if he feels he deserves a first team slot? Yeah. let him go.

Hernandez- has regressed, we need to get shot and let James Wilson take his place as substitute goal-poacher. Wilson has FAR more to offer.

Januzaj – for a supposed world-beating youngster, expected more. He's awesome, but these games are the ones he should be bossing and telling LVG to give him first team footy.

Anderson – nothing, as usual, time to go.

Kagawa – best gone.

The rest of the youngsters were poor, apart from Pereira (who at least showed potential, good movement), Wilson (future first-teamer, great little striker).

James is nowhere near first-team quality so i'm glad Shaw and Rojo will ensure he gets nowhere near the PL til he's ready. SO poor, really bad. Like, Sunday league bad.


Right, that's done. We played a good L2 side who were hungrier than us and got embarassed while playing mainly kids. Fair enough.

LVG must surely realise after 2 league games that we're in drastic need of another 4 signings (ADM 7 being one), to compete. And after tonight, that the youth simply aren't ready to compete.

Fingers crossed for a) another 2-3 signings before the window closes & some players sold and b) A DIFFERENT FORMATION on Saturday. 3-5-2 is dry as hell, boring as sin to watch and Di Maria needs to be unleashed as a free-roaming forward/LW against Burnley. We lose that game, it becomes a very concerning situation.

PMF - I agree that the players weren't good enough; but who picked them? Who told them how to play?

Going back to something I touched on in my essay (I didn't realise how long it was while writing it); the players looked scared tonight - and I think that was down to LVG. He seemed very imposing in the warm up before the game which I imagine was intimidating for some of the younger players. They seemed nervous on the ball and afraid to try anything other than simple passing. Almost afraid to fail.

I can't imagine that was down to facing the mighty giants that are MK Dons (no disrespect intended) - and so can only assume that it was down to something (or someone) within the club. LVG has a reputation for ruffling feathers and I suspect that was the case tonight. Generally speaking I'd say that a player who can't handle pressure is not a Manchester United player - but for some of the younger, inexperienced players I can't imagine that kind of vibe is in any way productive.

27 Aug 2014 08:55:08
R7,

Yep definitely LVG's fault with his imposing warm up that the players aren't good enough.

GDS2 - First and foremost - if the players picked weren't good enough; that's entirely on LVG. He picked the team and he chose the formation. That being said; I think that the starting 11 were good enough to win that game - at least on paper.

If one player has a bad game - that's usually down to them; but when the whole starting 11 plays that poorly there is usually another reason. Tactically I think LVG got things wrong - but players like Chico and Welbeck (who have scored goals against the likes of Real, Bayern and Chelski) should be performing better than that against a third tier team regardless of tactics and formation. This was a team of young and fringe players who should have been motivated to go out there and stake a claim. The fact that they didn't suggests that something was awry.

26 Aug 2014 22:57:20
Positives from the game.
Well, we only have to focus on the league for now.
Terrible.

26 Aug 2014 22:48:20
Was watching city v Liverpool game last night and city were 3-1 up and a fluke deflection nearly let liverpool in to score a second but up popped Kompany and cleared off the line, and his reaction after that was typical, he started shouting at his defenders as all good leaders will. That's what we're missing. There are no leaders in our team.
Even de jong will be an improvement in this area.

Mate, right now I'd kill for a De Jong.
And. cue the criticisms. that includes Carrick.
Carrick can pass, and nothing else.
DeJong can pass, not as well, but the rest of his defensive game is light years ahead.

26 Aug 2014 22:38:46
I really feel sorry for the young lads 2night I feel they were let down by the senior pros on the field. Out of de gea, evans, anderson, kagawa (for the short time he was on), hernandez, and welbeck I feel only de gea and welbs had the right to not walk off the pitch feeling ashamed of themselves.
Even though lvg tried to deflect some criticism from the players I think its safe to say he knows who he needs out the door.
Wilson, and pereria offered some pride in there attempts to restore some dignity. But besides that not much else to cheer about from this result.

26 Aug 2014 21:44:20
Eds, thanks as always and hope I am posting this in the correct place.
Not that anyone is really interested but I am currently sat up on my sofa, beer in one hand, TV remote in the other, watching our team losing 3-0 (as it stands) to MK Dons and I want to offer my opinion on our performance to all those that are interested.
The main problems are obvious and unlike others I see no point whatsoever in grilling our team whilst they are down but more just highlight some points for discussion.

Passing and moving: it must be the new shape and positional responsibilities but we are still clearly getting used to the system. It won't be until Christmas at this rate until we are comfortable with it but passing and moving is something we have to seriously look at before the weekend.

Danny Welbeck: if he leaves this Summer I'll be shocked, nothing more to say.

Hernandez: 12 months ago I would have argued against anyone that said he was surplus, but now I honestly think he needs to move on. £12 million would be good business.

Wilson: needs much more of a chance, top talent.

Desire, passion etc: I think this is still there, personally, but when you are trying to adapt, learn and impress, these emotions can sometimes take a back seat.

All other points aside, this is a team that for over 25 years followed one philosophy and now in the space of a little over 12 months has tried to adapt to two very different ones. MK Dons played well tonight but they were up against a 'new' side, a side that is adapting, changing, LEARNING.
Things will improve.

26 Aug 2014 22:20:45
Fair points and its not like this was our first 11 BUT why are we prepared to write off the first 3 months of this season as our team and youth are shoe horned into an unfamiliar formation when according to LVG himself he wants to play 433 next season. Surely that will also take time to adjust to which would mean writing off this season and next season. thoughts?

I got a feeling we will see a different formation on Saturday.

26 Aug 2014 23:13:01
We'll be playing 433 pretty soon now that we've got Di Maria

KingGiggsy and Mulambo

Great posts, like yourselves I'm am at odds with myself over tonight's match?
I reserved that tonight's was a final chance prior to a MASSIVE clear out?

I think we all know now the major work that has to be done, and we as fans need to and will wait until we are back to our best! However, I still think we must get a top four finish, and even after tonight and Saturday I am still confident of that.

Di Maria is the first step towards us climbing back to the top, we are going through major transition, time for us to unite.

It is hard to watch but the Glory days will be back soon.

I watched the programme prior to the match tonight on MuTv about LVG and I know he will transform us into champions!

Bring on the Season!! :)
OHx

Mulambo - have just touched on that in another post. Expect it will appear here or on the other page momentarily - but in short - I agree entirely.

I don't think a 'top manager' at a top club can make statements likes that.

I'm sorry but van Gaal messed up tonight. He should of played his usual starting 11 and got a positive result. Confidence is totally shot. United should NEVER lose 4-0 to a team of that stature. EVER.
I really believe in van Gaal but teams build on victories not just formations and philosophies and this was a massive two steps back when it could of been a comfortable step forward.
Positives? Wilson and Pereira when they came on but do we have to hit rock bottom before there is any improvement?

26 Aug 2014 20:31:17
Got a feeling that Di Maria might be the last player signed that will play in the first choice starting 11. Reports over the summer stated that LVG really rated Evans, could he be 1st choice in the middle of the 3 with Rojo and Smalling/Jones either side? LVG has also been quoted saying that Di Maria is a world class midfielder. Not winger, not wing back, midfielder. Could he be planning a very mobile, pacey and quick thinking midfield three of Herrera, Di Maria and Mata? Shaw and Valencia as wing-backs with Rooney and RVP up top? Any other players that may be purchased, like Blind or De Jong, would be used tactically depending on the opposition. Just a thought, and I think it would be a very weak midfield defensively, but one for discussion. Also, for the record I REALLY want to see Vidal in that midfield, and if he is signed I'll re-think this post.

Don't think he'd really rate Evans after that shocker

26 Aug 2014 20:54:25
Have u seen the MK dons game if UTD don't buy at least 4 more players they will not get close to 4th. After the dross of the premier league games I have now be witness to a new level of football that I didn't think existed outside the sunday pub league. Nick Powell has had the worse 45 minutes I have ever seen on a pitch and in janko they have unearthed another footballer who cannot cross a ball amazing. This team is in big trouble glossing over it with Di Maria will achieve nothing. Messi couldn't save this shambles £200 million spent in a year and we are here. Someone needs to get hold of LVG and tell him to forget his philosophy the defenders at this club are not top flight quality no composure and useless when they have the ball at feet. Jones always looks good making last ditch tackles that is because he is always out of position and fails to read the game. Sorry about the rant but I am disgusted with the running of this club Smalling, Young, Jones, Evans, Fellani, Kagawa, Valencia, Hernandes, Wellbeck, Cleverly, Anderson are and never have been top players yet we have managed to find them all a job, who realistically would sign these players we can't give most of them away. Fergie has to take the rap for this sat back and let this happen knowing it wouldn't be his problem

Ok. I disagree with my own post. United need defenders.

26 Aug 2014 21:53:52
Nothing like an overreaction rant to a league cup game where no first team players played except the keeper.

A load of kids, players in the shop window and the worst player on the pitch bar none is Evans. Even Vermijl (a RB) is doing a better job.

It's a lesson for the kiddies though and a lesson for LvG. Always play Wilson from the start :)

Jaimej79, calm down, this isn't the first team. It's kids, shop window players and one returning from injury.

The first team wouldn't have lost by a four goal margin :0)

In all seriousness if we had started with the U21's, just the U21's, we wouldn't have done much worse.

Good job di maria signed before tonights game otherwise I think he would of legged it :( absolutely shocking

Haha the knees are jerking! I think a reaction is coming :)

@jaimej79
I understand that people are allowed to have their opinion, but almost every single post you have posted is negative. What is the point of posting the same garbage over and over again.

Beast must be writing a book right now

Gds wellbeck, hernandez januzai and evans are 1st team players and should be ashamed of there performance.until wilson came on we hadnt had an attempt on target.we were second best all over the pitch and mk dons wanted it a lot more than utd.i don't care wether its u18, u21, s or 1st team you need the right attitude and desire to win, other than a few of the younger players I didn't see that tonight.

GDS2 can you hand on heart say you think this formation will work out for us??

It was a poor side. I am concerned about the system though. I just hope the players we have to come in can vastly increase our level of performance and get that system working.

Di Maria? Can he play centre half or just as a wing back?

26 Aug 2014 23:35:56
John,

Evans hasn't played for 4 weeks and was expected to play the full game in a back 3 with 2 very inexperienced players. Welbeck and Hernandez are both up for sale and januzaj just had a poor game. Wilson the only positive to come from tonight, what a player he is going to be, will save us a hell of a lot of money on an rvp replacement in 2-3 years time I tell you that much.

Red79,

Not sure I've commented on the formation, I think it's too early to tell, I think it it one that if used correctly with the right personnel will work for us, but I think it needs to be more fluid and less obvious.

Tonight was the biggest win of them mk dons players careers, for united it was just a capital one cup game, that's the difference in desire to want to win the game.

I understand that GDS2 but the problem is we don't have the players to play this formation so why keep playing it one of the things that annoyed me most about fergie and then moyes was playing people out of position regularly the prime example here is the wingback situation we have wingers not wingbacks there is so much difference between these 2 positions but they are crucial for the 352 to work would you play rvp at cb of course not so why continue to play wingers as defenders especially when we don't have any dm who can help cover for me with the squad how it was we should of just stuck with 442 and tried to remain solid whilst we recruited the new players we needed.

26 Aug 2014 19:58:19
Delighted with the di maria deal but personally don't think it signals we can still attract the top talent. I reckon we signed him because we were the only side with the cash available at the time (we know psg were trying to sell to raise funds) and because good old Ronnie put in a good word for us. Real can simply make a comment to the press about a player and within a week that player is begging to leave for madrid, we are still at the stage of having to really work for these deals because of no UCL. Hopefully I am very wrong and vidal is still possible. Either way this is a much better window than last summer and woodward has clearly improved his negotiating skills

Love it!
Negotiating skillls consisting of opening up a cheque book and just asking how much.

26 Aug 2014 19:14:24
Everyone is making me laugh about how we are going to fit so much quality upfront. Poor Carlo Ancelotti must be having fits every time he puts out a team sheet then!

Competition for places should be healthy like this. Do you think Adnan is going to improve if he just gets to walk into the team without doing much?

Look at Chelsea, they have the 2 best keepers in the league (if they keep Cech), 4 Midfielders who could command a starting place but the rest of their squad is quite thin really.

I don't care really how we fit everyone in if there are world class players who want to be here then I am not going to cry!

26 Aug 2014 18:27:01
With Benatia gone to Bayern and Hummels extremely unlikely apart from Manolas is there any intrest in any other centre backs I know you have said of intrest before but with option one two and maybe three unlikely is there any other intrest

Looked up Manolas on the search function and saw that the ed gave an update yesterday on potential centre back targets would a move for Subotic be viable ed could be done easier than Hummels if we agreed to not pursue Hummels or Reus

{Ed002's Note - No.}

Manolas has gone to Roma as Benatia's replacement.

26 Aug 2014 17:54:58
Vidal and Blind. the next two signings. Nothing more nothing less.

DONE!

I'll take it.

Er yes please that would be lovely :)

It will be done Syd. Pretty confident about Vidal. Will be a MU player by Saturday or at mist Sunday. Blind bid could go in. Waiting on LvG's final say.

26 Aug 2014 18:28:32
We hope

26 Aug 2014 16:55:07
Di Maria, Rooney, Mata and RVP will be difficult to get in the same side and I think it is rare all 4 will.
You wouldn't think we just spent £58m on somebody to sit on the bench so obviously he starts. It seems Rooney will start when fit as he is our new captain. Which means 1 of Mata or RVP will need resting the odd game. Its a nice problem to have but I can't see either been happy to sit on the bench in a big game.
Exciting times ahead though.

Nice problem to have but I'd like to see all 4 start and believe it is doable.

4 3 3
Rooney out left
RVP centre
DM out right
Mata just behind

26 Aug 2014 17:14:02
The last time Manchester United put out a starting squad without any products of their youth team involved? - 1937

The only time since that a youth team product hasn't been involved in the STARTING 11 was in 2011. but O'Shea was on the bench.

Seen this and thought i'd post it, I've not bothered to check the accuracy but if true then its great to hear :) I hope we continue with this philosophy for ever.

RD

26 Aug 2014 18:26:23
Its accurate, you should get the guys book.

Who said it MrE? I just saw it online but it wasn't credited. :)

RD

26 Aug 2014 14:40:14
Angel Di Maria is an excellent signing for manchester united, but we definitely need to sign a midfield enforcer for him and other attackers (mata, rooney, rvp etc.) to be effective. In the sunderland game, mata and rooney were playing deep very often because of the ineffectiveness of our current midfield. IMO Carvalho will fit that role very well. If Vidal's knee injury is really as serious as the media is making it out to be, it is definitely not worth the risk because if he gets injured we will once again struggle to create chances.

And what is stopping Carvalho from getting injured? All that matters is if he passes a medical, after that you can't live in a world of ifs buts and maybes

Melbourne mate the difference is Vidal could turn out to be a Hargreaves whereas Carvalho could turn out to be an Aaron Ramsey.

In terms of injury I mean.

We need more than just a midfield enforcer. If we're going to play ADM in his best position we need switch to 4-3-3 - in which case we need another decent winger. We don't really have a top CB at the moment (Rojo is decent but I feel we need someone with the ability to really command the defense). We also need a new RB.

That's 4 positions that need to be filled over the next few transfer windows - and in a season or two we'll also need to replace RVP. I expect we're in for a few big spending windows.

Melboune
Carvalho can also get injured. I am saying if vidal injury concerns are as serious as the media makes it out to be then we choose the safer option because if we lose our midfielder to injury, we are going to face the same problems we have today

26 Aug 2014 13:53:09
There has been a lot of paper talk linking us to so many defenders its hard to estabish what's genuine. Are you able to tell me what defenders we are actually showing an interest?

I think MU originally wanted Hummels CCB and Vermaelen LCB. As an alternative to Vermaelen we signed Rojo for the LCB role. Benatia is now the target for the CCB role, but I have no idea what will happen if Benatia moves elsewhere. The editor has mentioned Veltman and Alderweireld as possibilities although Arsenal are interested in them (unlikely both). There's always a chance Blind could be signed and used as a CB.

A transfer that has been bubbling for the past week has now been agreed as Bayern Munich confirm a deal has been reached to sign Mehdi Benatia from Roma. (Sky Sports News)

Also confirmed on the official Bayern Munich Twitter page

26 Aug 2014 13:21:24
Very good Syders. Love the new avatar. Just what we need. lol

Couldn't help myself after the OP's theory :)

26 Aug 2014 11:34:45
Hi all, not for the first time there are pieces in the media about us having concerns about Vidal's fitness (his knee). Can anybody confirm this is the case? It has been claimed that we are reluctant to close the deal with Juve rather than unable

26 Aug 2014 10:06:20
Just a thought but if the deal goes through for Di Maria as expected and we follow through with our interest in Daley Blind then we will have 10 left footed out field players in the first team squad(Shaw, Rojo, Blackett, James, Blind, Di Maria, Januzaj, Mata, RvP and Wilson).

Can anyone ever remember us having so many lefties in the squad, effectively we could name an all left footed out field team. It does seem that LvG has a thing for lefties. lol.

Maybe that's why LVG sleeps on the left.

Perhaps LVG loves to have balance in that aspect as well.

26 Aug 2014 12:48:27
What does it matter though? most teams have a large number of right footers in their line up.

Also, people saying we'd have 3 left footers at the back if we get Blind, well we have had Evra(only left) Vidic, Rio, Brown followed by Rafael , 3 right footers.

JK92, In the end it shouldn't matter and it probably doesn't in this case. I just found it strange as left footers are rarer in football, so to acquire so many is a little out of the ordinary. Can you name another top flight team with 10 first team left footed players?

Maybe LvG likes to have the balance between left/right footers. Or maybe its just coincidence.

Does it matter? who knows, it was just something that struck me as odd. lol.

26 Aug 2014 15:30:06
i wasn't aiming that post at you shappy, I was just saying.

26 Aug 2014 08:35:35
Can anyone provide info on why Man Utd interest cooled on William Carvalho?

Arsenal linked with him at $20mill and we were interested before. How come he is no longer a DMF target? ONly 22yrs as well.

Our primary target would appear to be Vidal. Maybe if that does not happen, and the asking price for Carvalho becomes more realistic, them maybe we will renew our interest?
Just an opinion, but lots will happen in the transfer market this week. Would not be surprised to see us go in for a player(s) that have not even been previously mentioned.
Whatever happens between now and the end of the window, we should be relatively happy with the business we have done. We still need a couple more, granted, but I think the doom mongers have been well and truly put in their places this window.
Where have all the anti Glazer, and anti Woodwoody posters gone?

Maybe the club are focusing on Vidal, or maybe while Carvalho is a great little player with huge potential maybe he doesn't fit into the type of midfielder LvG wants.

Carvalho is a pure defensive midfielder with a decent but not expansive passing range. Not too dissimilar to Makelele in his prime. Which is fine if you want to sacrifice a midfielder to only do the work of a defender, But LvG wants his midfielders to do more than just defend, they need to be able to pass and get forward at the right times to help with the attack.

Personally I feel someone like Marco Verratti is much more a LvG type midfielder than Carvalho. And if we are to continue with three at the back then there really is no need to play with an out and out defensive midfielder.

Carvalhos passing is actually exceptional, he does need to get forward a bit more but he has everything to go on to be one of the v best midfielders in the world

Roonbest, I'm not saying Carvalho isn't a good passer, he is but his passing range isn't as expansive as other players. He is very accurate and he does clock up a large number of passes but then so does Cleverley.
Most of Carvalho's passes go to either one of the centre backs or to another central midfielder who is between 10-15 yards away at the time.

How often do you see him hit a 60 yard diagonal ball to the winger to set an attack on its way?

How often does he play a cute through ball to a forward to give him a clear sight of goal?

How many assists does he get?

This is what I mean by expansive passing range.

Yes he is a strong lad who doesn't give the ball away very often, and yes he doesn't panic under pressure. And yes the majority of his passes find their target.

But chief creator in the middle he will never be, and that's fine. Because he isn't supposed to be a creative midfielder. But LvG has chosen a system that requires the midfielders to be great all round midfielders, they need to defend, pass, move and create. That just isn't Carvalho.

That is why the club would prefer Vidal who is the complete midfielder, or even Strootman.

Carvalho will go on to become the best DM in world football, much like Makelele did before him. But he won't be remembered as being in the same bracket as Pirlo, Vidal or Schweinsteiger.

I would much prefer we turn our attention to carvalho then blind/de jong if a deal for vidal cannot be made

Betty the only reason the glazers are spending is because were in the crap, between 2005 and 2012 our net spend was £12.5 million per year.they have no option but to spend or see utd slip further behind, if we had spent gradually over the years and addressed the glaring midfield needs when saf was here, we would be in far better shape.

John, it would be foolish for anyone to disagree with that. But whatever the reason, they are prepared to spend. I was not trying to defend them, because I despise them as much as anyone. My post was not directed at people like yourself, but more at the Doom mongers on here. The "chicken licken" brigade, to coin a StevieK phrase.
You know the ones, the conspiracy theorists who never have anything positive to say about the club or its employees.

26 Aug 2014 12:18:17
First, as John points out, the Glazers have spent big in the last few windows because their lack of investment since the sale of Ronaldo has left us out of the CL, and that means lower income and potential risks to sponsorship deals.

Second, as Ed002 has stated, the ultimate goal is to eliminate the debt and then sell for a huge fee to, most likely, a bank controlled fund who will have no interest in anything but bleeding the club for profit.

The Glazers are investing now so that they can ensure the club's value remains high for the next few years so that they can claim the highest return. They are not investing because they want to ensure long-term stability or that they care about on-field success: they want to make as much money as possible and don't care what this means for the future of the club.

As a business strategy it is excellent, but any supporter of the club should be able to recognise that they are putting its long-term success in danger.

@Danny Pughunited

Whatever we feel about the glazers the spending in the last two windows is hardly putting the club's future in danger, quote the opposite actually.

About Carvalho, I think he is a decent defensive midfielder, but does nothing more and always plays it safe taking very few risks, perhaps does not have the confidence to take risks.

But the main issue with him is obviously a very high price tag which nobody seems to be willing to pay. For that money + Hernandez we could probably seal the Vidal deal if Juve are willing to sell. And even with a supposedly dodgy knee Vidal would represent greater value.

Redfaith, it's in danger if they sell it to a fund that then deems that our wage bill is to high, and decides to strip us for parts. The Glazers are focused on making us competitive for the next few seasons to raise the selling price of the club to its highest possible point. But the type of sellers they are courting will be solely interested in how much money they can take from the club. That places our long term stability in danger.

Danny, they will only be able to take a certain amount in dividends. Even if they took £60m a year in dividends, with no debt (hopefully) that would leave plenty for transfers and to pay top salaries.

26 Aug 2014 06:47:50
I would like to comment on some of the commentators especially those who have been negative about our buying of players.
Before, many has been saying that the team is not strong enough and we need to buy and that the owners are not spending. Now when they start spending and buying key players, these people starts to say the price is too high or there are better options. I am quite perplex by these fickle minded people.
What surprises me are comments from some of the ex-Man Utd players. I know they have contributed greatly during their time and they have brought honours to the club. However they need to know that these days, there are different factors affecting and TBH, this trend of "paying for talents" was started by us. If you remember, we started with the world's most expensive and famous Cristiano Ronaldo. What went wrong was we did not quickly replace and buy replacements to groom. It is what it is now given the weakness in our team. Hence we need to rebuild and I feel we have a strong minded manager to lead us through.
It is easy to criticise from the byline but we all know that it is difficult what needs to be done. I feel those "punters" needed to say something so that they can sell airtime. However, why do they not "put their money where their mouth is" like Giggs? He played, stuck with us last year and now continue to show passion of trying to help put us back on top. It will take time no doubt.
So. moral of the story is. let's get behind the LVG and the team and see what they can do. I believe we will be champions again, if not this season, definitely next season. I am relatively confident we should be able to make UCL next season.

Totally agree. If u want top talent then you have to pay for them.
Ray Wilkins is an ex player and he's always crtisizing us. The press are having a field day at the moment, but a couple more world class buys and we will shut them all up.
Lvg will need time but will get it right.
The fans at OT have a big part to play too.

Some people could win the lottery and still moan about it, "do you know how much tax I have to pay now?", "Damn servants these days don't know they're born" ect ect. lol.

Its just the way some people are, they always look for a downside in everything and tend to take sick pleasure when things go wrong. These people you just need to ignore, they want you to be dragged down into their own self pity and morbid outlook on life. If you ignore them you'll find life really isn't that bad. lol.

As for the press well they like nothing more than pulling a great institution down and picking at the carcass to feed their own greedy desires. We have been the top team in England for over 20 years now, and finally there is a kink in our armour and the press are having a field day. Again you need to pay little attention to the press. When I read a press article I tend to scan through it and pick out the facts and then come to my own conclusions, everything else in the article is the writers opinion and will have his or hers own bias in it.

As for what ex-players have to say, well there is two potential trains of thought on this. One is that they could well be answering questions being asked of them, then having sections of what they said picked out to suit the writers own aim. They will also paraphrase them and ask questions in such a way that they are practically putting words in their mouth.

For example I could ask an ex player "was last season a disaster?" then they could reply
"Yes it was for a club of the stature of Man Utd, but they have the chance to put that right this season if they move in the right direction and bring in the right people to make those changes"
But what I put in my article is that so in so feels last season was an unmitigated disaster and that it is vital that the club sign big name players to put things right or risk slipping into the abyss.

And I'm not a talented journalist, so they are much better at it than me.

The other train of thought could be that maybe that ex player could be a pessimist and always looks on the downside of things, or maybe they don't like certain people at the club or feel aggrieved with the club in some way. Remember the club is just their former employer and they are not fans of the club. Some will be and some will have an emotional attachment to the club, but not all. Look at Roy Keane for example, during his career he gave his all for the club, but he is unhappy with how his time with the club drew to a close and as such takes every chance he gets to have sly little digs at the club. He isn't doing that out of love for the club but out of his own bitterness.

Footballers are footballers and should let their feet do the talking, everything they say should be taken with the pinch of salt and the thought that what they are saying will have the same bias's as anyone else and they may not be speaking with the passion or the view point of a fan.

26 Aug 2014 04:56:39
Several news reporting United will sign two more players in 5 days.

I would be happy if we sign any two of Vidal, Benatia, Blind or De jong.

Independent article interesting in that, while we are clearly in for Vidal, it gives lots of details about the concerns for Vidal's fitness and right knee - to such an extent that United would only sign him after a specialised medical and then put him on an incentivised appearance based contract.

To quote Independent journalist Ian Herbert from yesterday's paper:

"But the player’s troublesome right knee is a cause of serious concern, with United acutely aware that the 27-year-old has not started a Serie A game for the Turin side since the 2-0 defeat at Napoli on 30 March – and that he was subsequently asked to play four times, late last season, before the knee was operated on. Juventus needed Vidal as they fought to win last season’s title and to progress in the Europa League.

The player underwent a rapid operation in May to repair his meniscus before the World Cup and was obviously never fully fit in Brazil, where he could not complete any of the three games he played. Universidad de Chile’s team doctor, Alejandro Orizola, described the operation that patched him up for the World Cup as “a hasty procedure” and claimed that “it would always bring with it a regression in his final recovery”.

As such I think that Vidal would be too much of a fitness risk at the moment: we need a player who can anchor midfield in every game. Carvalho's price has dropped and De Jong is expected to move, as he didn't train with Milan last week.

Also, we are absolutely desperate for a commanding ball-playing centre half: Smalling and Jones looked utterly bewildered about how to distribute the ball against Sunderland. As such, if we were to get Benatia (looks like Bayern are haggling over the price) this would be the most important transfer of all.