Manchester United Banter Archive December 26 2017

 

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26 Dec 2017 22:34:12
We are not as bad as everyone is making out in terms of our squad. Imagine that this squad was put up for sale. There would be lots of takers for Martial Rashford Lukaku Pogba Matic Shaw DE Gea Bailly Mikki Herrera. Even the lesser lights such as Smalling Jones Jesse Tony V Blind and Damian would attract serious bids from decent teams. So it seems to me that there are two issues here. One is that Jose needs a few more top top players to give the team the balance it needs. The second is related to the first in that because Jose doesn't have enough top players when the team isn't playing to its full potential and / or there are injuries to the better players then the team can't cope and thus in turn means poor results and a significant dip in confidence. I really believe that with the addition of three more top quality players we will be challenging. Unfortunately it's not easy to get the best players in the Jan transfer window. As others have pointed out City are a good year ahead of us in the building process. One thing the team does have is fight. Not many would have come back from two nil down against Burnley as we did today. I think we have to back the manager back the team and try to help get the confidence back whilst hoping Jose gets the men he needs.

Believable4 Unbelievable5

26 Dec 2017 22:54:07
There may be lots of takers but none of them would be of top teams. United are suffering from the same thing as Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, spurs, quite frankly if you want to be the best, our squads are way off the actual best. Not many good teams would want mos tog the players you listed, but that’s not specifically a united issue when city are that good it’s hard to keep up.

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26 Dec 2017 23:06:43
Sensible post Hendon, I agree.

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27 Dec 2017 00:46:27
JB left peg yes its not just a Utd issue but come on if they were up for sale Pogba Rashford Martial and DE Gea would definitely be wanted by top teams. The others might not nec go to Barcelona or RM but I could easily see them at other top teams. Spurs would take Shaw and prob Bailly and Lukaku.

Arsenal would love to have a player like Mikki espec with Corzola out and Sanchez likely to go. Liverpool would be improved no end by Matic and Bailly. I cld see June or Napoli or PSG make a play for so E of players too. The main point though is that we do like other teams need a better squad to compete with City.

They have been planning this for years when Beguristan (right spelling? ) became a director of football in advance of Pep going to the Etihad. Their groundwork has been done properly over the or four years. Sir Alex won his last title by sheer force of his personality allied to a decent team and mediocre opposition.

Even Sir Alex would struggle to compete against City Barcelona RM and PSG with this squad. Much though I love and appreciate what he did for our club the truth is that he failed in two significant thinga he chose the wrong successor and also didn't leave a good enough or youthful enough squad for his successor.

In failing to do this he ensured that his successes shine even more brightly but also meant we have had this period of relatively poor quality teams. Am not saying Sir Alex did this deliberately but it was a failure by him. Imagine if he had invested in the top young talent and bequeathed it to his successor his dynasty would have continued for another decade.

One last thing. Ultimately its down to the players to do the business on the field. Most of them are experienced international players and they should know that they have to perform to their maximum to fully achieve what they are capable of. It should not need a manager at this level to tell them and teach them how not to concede close range goals like we have done against Leicester and now against Burnley.

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27 Dec 2017 01:34:39
Hedonred not many would come back from 2-0 down against Burnley because most big teams won't be 2-0 down against Burnley in 30 mins.

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27 Dec 2017 09:22:12
Hendonred - maybe José isn't get the best out of the squad and rather than address his own shortcomings it is easier to moan about City's spending. With the squad we have you wouldn't expect us to struggle against West Bromwich, Bristol, Leicester and now Burnley. Yes there will always be off days but 4 in quick succession shouldn't happen if the coach is doing a good job. Don't forget we also made hard work of Watford having been 2-0 up.
You say it's down to the players and they should know what to do, if this was the case why do club's like us need a manager? On the playing side it's the manager's responsibility to pick the team, sort the tactics and make the changes required in the game to try and affect the result, like swapping Rojo and Matic yesterday. If players are not following his instructions then it's his responsibility to do something about it and if all of the players are under performing then that reflects badly on the job the manager is doing.
Why is it the player's fault when things aren't going well, yet the good results are down to José?

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{Ed025's Note - fair point mate..

27 Dec 2017 13:51:59
Keanoh I get what you are saying but really I do think a top top team has leaders on the pitch who are intelligent and mature enough to respond to challenging match situations without always having to get an instruction from the manager. I cannot believe that Jose tells his players to start off lethargically not press the ball and only to start playing when 2 - 0 down.

The players do have to bear a huge amount of responsibility for not performing as they can. Jose does make changes in matches he is one of the very best at that but what he can't do is make players defend properly once they are on the pitch. All can be going well and then like against Leicester and Burnley if defenders suddenly switch off by the time the errors have happened the damage is done and he cannot undo it. We have let in stupid totally avoidable goals recently. Our midfield had not competed enough and our attackers have missed sitters. You can bet Jose has told his team not to do it again. But they have. So that means either they learn quickly or he has to ship them out and get the players who do listen and don't make these mistakes. At the top level you will get punished again and against.

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26 Dec 2017 21:23:48
Did we need another 200 mill of talent to beat Burnley today or maybe just linders starting instead of ibra?

Burnley, Leicester, Bristol, West Brom, Bournemouth .
2 draws a loss 2 wins .
Not a great run and if we are talking money and squads bit of a miss match .

Questions starting to asked, players and the manager need to answer them.

Believable2 Unbelievable1

26 Dec 2017 22:55:57
I feel united are suffering what we did when we tried to keep up with you, throwing money st the wrong players. There are rumours Dembele is going for 18 million. Would I rather gamble 18 on Dembele or 75 with add ins going further for Lukaku? Look at the signings of most of the top tier premier league teams and how many made over the last 4 windows actually start? You have a good manager just need time.

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{Ed007's Note - That must be for Karamoko Dembele, you couldn't get Moussa's left leg for £18 million.}

26 Dec 2017 23:01:49
Jred - The problem is consistency. We don't have it. Not enough of it anyway. Especially in the attacking positions. We've had a lot of injuries especially at CB and we've conceded some really sloppy goals recently.

I honestly believe we've just got to be patient.

I know results and some performances have been poor recently but we've progressed in my opinion.

Two trophies last year and hopefully we'll be second going into 2018, the highest position we've been going into a New Year since Fergi retired. Most of his signings have been very good not everyone is going to work out!

I'm not saying your calling for a change but I think a lot of people would be happy to see him replaced. I think that would be a huge mistake as I just don't see anybody else available better than him. I agree his has his flaws but doesn't everybody!

Like I've said I think a top 4 finish will represent adequate progress this season. Two decent teams will miss out and we need to make sure we're not one of them! City are making a mockery of this statement but I think we have some very good teams in the PL, arguably 6 of the best coaches in world football and all 5 teams qualifying for the latter stages of the Champs League is testament to that.

We're getting better just not as quickly as I think we all anticipated!

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26 Dec 2017 23:07:14
I am a 'positive policeman' normally but i tend to agree jred.

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27 Dec 2017 00:09:48
Jred everyone tries to be politically correct on here we have played Bristol city, Burnley at home and Leicester who had ten men and beat none of them . When do we reach the point of that's just pants, let's be real GK is fine, defense Bailly young and Valencia, MD pogba and matic, rest of the squad I like martial and lukaku, but in a big squad that's not enough, the whole squad should be first teamers but are they really.

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{Ed007's Note - If Jred keeps up the quality of his posts for the second half of the season he'll be pushing to steal The Ravers coveted - and highly prestigious - Poster of the Year crown. Only a Rainbowfishtrombone/KLOOT resurrection would top him.......

27 Dec 2017 09:31:32
Not KLOOT! 😁

Was it KLOOT who had an unhealthy fascination with Nani?

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27 Dec 2017 09:48:59
No, that was Percy, we used to rain him and he threw his toys out of the prom. His defence of Nani was relentless and slightly unhealthy.

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26 Dec 2017 20:05:44
Let’s take a step back from today’s result and consider our progress and current position. After a great start we have stuttered and stalled and we now have Chelsea breathing down our necks. The Scousers are coming and have now outscored us and Spurs are also back in form and look like they will overtake our goals scored total soon. Looking at the season as a whole we appear to be moving backwards whilst others are starting to accelerate, not a good sign.

So what has happened? Well, Pogba got injured and then got himself banned but we have also seen continual changes in personnel and formation; I have no idea what our preferred formation is or who our best starting 11 are meant to be. Jose is as grumpy as ever and is now taking pot shots at his players and the board, another worrying sign.

Something needs to change quickly, the serial winner is already looking for excuses. I posted on Christmas Day about Jose but it didn’t get a lot of comments so I’m not sure who many read it but I think he is not a happy bunny right now and that is a huge part of the problem. I (tongue on cheek) offered him a lot of advice and I really think he needs to take it. I’m sure some will say “but we’re 2nd” which is true but which direction do you think we are moving in? Right now we are sliding whilst others are moving on up and Jose does not seem up for the fight.

I have a few other issues. Pogba was the world’s most expensive player and I like him, but he doesn’t dominate or control games. Lukaku’s goals have dried up after a promising start and he looks a little lost right now. I think Shaw looks class but it seems he will be sold. How on Earth Ibra is getting on the pitch is beyond me. Icon, legend maybe, but he is nowhere near sharp or match fit. I genuinely believe other Managers w Utd get more out of our squad than Jose is managing. The positive thing is his the team fought today to get back into the game and rescue a point so I don’t think anyone has downed tools but it’s still not great. It’s not just the last result, plot our games this year and you will see a gradual decline from the start that is now becoming worrying.

So, all in all I am a little worried about where we are at, exacerbated by Jose’s general demeanour and approach. I had us down as finishing 2nd but right now I feel that is ambitious. I’d love Jose to prove me wrong but I simply don’t see it. The Chelsea debacle was never fully explained and he seems short of ideas right now, other than spending more money, but I worry that that won’t be the answer either.

Right now I’m not sure he will be here next year.

Believable4 Unbelievable1

26 Dec 2017 20:37:07
I agree with everything you’ve said there. However, does anyone think lukaku’s goals have dried up because Ibra is back? Or do you guys just think it’s a coincidence?

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26 Dec 2017 20:39:10
His goals dried up before Ibra came back but I’m pretty sure it hasn’t helped the situation.

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26 Dec 2017 21:05:20
AJH - I'm presuming Jose favours 4-2-3-1 but like I've said countless times the three behind the main striker blow hot and cold. Nobody has cemented their place at No 10 despite numerous opportunities, Mata is not really a right sided forward/ winger just like Rashford and Martial are not essentially left sided forwards/ wingers. We've had problems with injuries at CB and unfortunately Lindelof just hasn't settled to compound things.

I think when we play 4-2-3-1 Jose expects a lot of his wide men defensively which doesn't really suit any of them and as none are traditional wide players we often lack width, especially with our problems at full back. Pogba often gets caught ahead of the ball putting a lot of pressure on Matic and we struggle to dominate the midfield.

In my opinion 3-5-2 would get the best out of the players we have at the moment. Martial could play up front with Lukaku and be allowed to pull wide left and dribble at players where he is most effective. We'd get natural width from Valencia and Young at wing back and we could still play 3 in midfield to allow Pogba more of a free role.

Some won't agree but I just don't see anybody out there (available) better than Jose.

We're still well placed for top 4 which is an improvement on previous seasons and we're higher than we've ever been since Fergi retired going into the new year.

Make no mistake we need to start looking down instead of up and realise very quickly that we're in another dog fight for top 4.

I believe in Jose's pedigree and I'm prepared to be patient. Realistically I still think a top 4 finish would represent progression especially with decent runs in the FA Cup and Champions League.

City have raised the bar and we need to raise to the challenge.

I fear Jose is losing patience with a lot of his players so nothing would surprise me.

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26 Dec 2017 22:00:50
Agree with most of that Danny. Although i don't fear him losing faith in many of his players. He is not alone in losing faith in many of them. I hope he has lost faith in some and I hope the club back him and let him rebuild the squad.

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26 Dec 2017 22:25:50
Would anyone take a punt on Mahrez in Jan? He might give a bit more balance to the team he's relatively young, has premier league experience and should be available for the right price?

He was outstanding in their title season although his form has dipped significantly since then there have been a few signs this season that he can still be a very good player on his day?

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26 Dec 2017 22:39:06
Let's be honest we aren't the greatest in defense midfield or attack and all 3 areas could be improved, to me a third midfielder and a right sided forward are top priorities that's not to say other positions are sorted it's just imo they are the most obvious . I agree with posters saying 352 is probs best with what's available but I don't think it's Jose's preferred way .
To me the Leicester game was more worrying tactically than the Burnley game, not pressing the ball and allowing Leicester to reach the final 30 metres almost unchallenged even with ten men and creating a let's have a jump off in the box is beyond me . Burnley game we seemed unlucky but how many times in the last two year have we said that, we may have improved but no wins from Bristol city, ten man Leicester and Burnley at home is incredibly disappointing and to be be frank not good enough.

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26 Dec 2017 23:05:22
Pogba has improved but for me, build your team around bloody Rashford! I’ve not seen many young talented kids who seem so humble! He can score, he tracks back, the lads got ability, build it around him! You have a world class keeper so you’re fine there, with a fit defence you don’t concede, you look stale lately with regard to creating but one creative spark (or player) and you’ll be fine. Mr elbows Herrera Pogba and Matic don’t have that, Pogba is more box to box not quite a silva / Coutinho/ Erikson (not ensuing his talent just different types) but the others mentioned aren’t create types so rs not their fault but maybe you need to force a creative player in there, miki doesn’t seem to be getting a chance so someone creative to feed Rashford and Lukaku and you’re right as rain.

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27 Dec 2017 07:37:50
John, I don't think Rashford is as talented and humble as you think he is. His decision making is questionable everytime he gets the ball.

His crossing is piss poor, he shoots whenever he gets the chance, doesn't look for a better option, even the freekick he took last night was disastrous. He always wants to score from a corner. How does any of this make him a standout player, a player around whom you can build a team?

If I'm the striker, playing for United and I see Rashford doing this, I'll give him a good dressing down. It's just not how you play a team sport.

I'm sorry.

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26 Dec 2017 18:38:48
So our great manager doesn't think we have spent enough to compete under him and I agree, how dare we expect mourinho to beat mighty teams like Bristol city, Leicester city and Burnley after spending only 300mn that sort of a challenge clearly needs a few billion at least doesn't it.

Believable9 Unbelievable3

26 Dec 2017 18:56:37
Common. In the same period, we sold a lot of players and city spent nearly double. If we want to compete, then we need to buy the best and they don't come cheap.
So far, apart from mkhytarian, his buying has been good.
We have a lot of average players and we spent a lot of money on the likes of fellaini Shaw Darmian Blind Rojo Schneiderlin schwinsteiger. So we need to sell the deadwood and buy decent talent.
We went through a period of under funding and that's catching up with us. So he's right.

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26 Dec 2017 19:27:46
And you don't have to be a genius to see the so called talent underperforming week in week out.

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26 Dec 2017 19:49:50
Over the last 3 year we have the third highest spend in world football.
Never mind beating city I think we have spent enough to beat Bristol Leicester and Burnley.

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26 Dec 2017 19:58:57
Ddg bailly matic pogba jessie lukaku and for potential rash martial and lindelof are the only players that I think should be sure of a squad place next season .
Add Young and valencia to keep as 2nd choice right and left backs and Romero if we can hold onto him is a great 2nd choice keeper.

I think pep could have our current squad playing more attractive football BUT just like at city he would need a new cb 2 full backs a central midfield player and an attacking midfielder / wide player. He needed them at city and bought them some have worked others not and he adapted well with otimendi ( the 6th most expensive cb in the world) and delph filling in well at lb. Much easier to hide 1 or 2 squad players than it was last season when he had to play the likes of zabaletta kolorov dodgy keeper an aging yaya weekly.

Our current squad has had millions spent in it. Mostly not very wisely.
3 managers most of them have played umder some 4 or 2 and a few just 1.
Jones smalling rojo blind miki darmian shaw fellaini herrera and to a lesser extent mata ibra all regularly playing 25 plus games a season over last 5 seasons and they can't put a run of league games together without consistently drawing or losing games championship winning teams put together . All imo should be made available for transfer. i'd be delighted if those 10 were replaced with 5 really high quality players and the squad completed by tuanzabe Perriera mctom tfm gomes (in time)
Cb rb lb cm wide player imo are required for the 1st 11. All the above players i suggest are sold are decent people and good pros but they have failed to play consistently at a high enough level for multiple managers and some for 3 or 4 years.
Blind I could see playing cb for Barcelona or herrera and winning the lot same for miki at somewhere like inter. But it's not going to happen at united.

Yes jose inherited an expensive squad. But it was the worst performing squad in recent history. Full of average Joe's that don't work hard enough don't realise what it takes to win at the highest level.

He has brought 7 players to that squad
Ibra looks at the end and miki too for different reasons lindelof has been slow but improving and bailly mainly unavailable this season. So on what he inherited he has only had matic and lukaku and pogba half the time available to him. So it can be of no surprise that the players that have failed for years are continuing to fail.

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26 Dec 2017 20:07:24
Excuses, excuses, excuses. Jred had it right. We have struggled against Bristol City, Leicester and. Burnley (at home) . A one-off I can understand but this is a trough.

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26 Dec 2017 21:12:31
Ibra should never of started today, smalling should never of still been playing cb last game .
Pogba our star player really isn't doing anything special couldn't lace kdb boots .
Hard watching martial and rash while sterling looks world class.

Jose has already started blaming everyone else and throwing some players under the bus .
I've been a fan of Jose but the signs that the melt down is coming are there to see .
He needs to turn this around, couldn't do it at Chelsea when he had a squad that had just won the league and won it the following year 3 points above relegation .
Can he do it now? Some signs that jose and 1 or 2 of the players aren't happy .
And the first rumours also starting that the club aren't 100% behind Jose.
He maybe hasn't spent more than Chelsea but he has spent a hell of a lot more than everyone else . Leicester Bristol and Burnley included.

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27 Dec 2017 09:21:47
We never had any bad spells / results under Fergie, Jose out!

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27 Dec 2017 11:12:40
Keep jose gds throw half of the players out more like.

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26 Dec 2017 17:27:23
Something is up with the players / management this just ridiculous of late! Is it some thing to do with the contracts running out or the window opening and potential new arrivals or departures? Eds 002 any news.

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{Ed002's Note - Any news about what?}

26 Dec 2017 17:39:34
No its about errors being made and players not playing to their full potential, i don't really get the point you are trying to make. These people are being paid absurd amounts of money to play for this club and should not be concerned with the transfer widows and other players coming in or leaving.

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26 Dec 2017 12:40:25
Hi Eds happy Christmas to all. Just wondering if United plan any contract talks with the players contracts expiring in 6 months. Shaw Fellani Herrera Mata ect. Thanks as always.

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{Ed002's Note - Mata is open to talks.}

26 Dec 2017 15:38:24
Based on the showing so far none of them are worth it.

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26 Dec 2017 17:54:45
Hmm so Herrera Fellani and Shaw are almost certain to leave. Shaw hasn't looked bad in recent weeks

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26 Dec 2017 13:13:36
Harry Kane is just ridiculous, would love it if we sign him in the coming years.

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26 Dec 2017 13:43:57
I think he was our long term target but we went for Lukaku instead.

If we went for Griezmann last year then we would have had a chance to go for Kane in 2018 summwr or 2019.

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26 Dec 2017 13:55:54
he is world class scholes. Wish he was playing for us.

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26 Dec 2017 14:47:23
he is humble but great, a true top professional, who all players on and off the pitch should try to emulate.

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26 Dec 2017 17:07:43
Bang on red gate. If I was him I'd be in no rush to leave spurs.

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26 Dec 2017 19:36:31
The mighty spurs. We are having a shocking season and 2 thirds of our team are deadwood who should be sold into the championship, yet Spurs are still 6 points behind us and have won nothing.

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26 Dec 2017 23:38:15
Lukaku should not of been rested today.

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