Manchester United Banter Archive February 26 2014

 

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26 Feb 2014 21:23:21
Eds (specially Ed002),

I know this sounds cynical, but do you know / at what point do you think the board would/will start considering changing the manager? Personally I think DM will stay until at least November barring an absolute meltdown the rest of the season.

Also, any ideas on what his vision of the team is? At the moment its tough to figure out which direction and what tactics he wants to implement with the team. His signings suggest one thing, but the setup for most matches suggest something different.

Thanks for the site!

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{Ed002's Note - He inherited a team that needs extensive rework and he should have the opportunity to do that over then next two to three windows.}

Quite agree Ed no one expected the players to be quite as abject as they are

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Ed002

Are the supposed targets set in stone?

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{Ed002's Note - Of course not.}

Ed002, with all due respect why should he be given 2 seasons like you said, what in his career has he done that the fans should give him such leeway, at your own club chelsea would this be the case, the answer is no, your fans didn't give AVB, this luxury and he had a CV moyes would kill for, it just makes me laf when fans of other sacking clubs advise us to stay with this dross and he deserves the chance when they quite clearly would not stand for it at their own club, and quite right too.

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{Ed002's Note - What's it got to do with Chelsea?}

I completely agree with ed, moyes took over a team on the slide that needs rebuilt. Average cm, average wingers, average back 4. I said last year it was Fergys best achievement winning the league with this squad and everything I have seen this year backs it up.
The transition from fergy was always going to be difficult and all the talk of a smooth transition was rubbish, I don't believe you can replace a manager of Fergys ability and influence smoothly this year was always going to be tough.

As the regulars will know I wasn't impressed with the appointment of moyes, I didn't buy in to the he plays 4-2-3-1 and a similar style as Dortmund.
At Everton he played defensive football, 4-4-1-1 with the emphasis on wing play and hard work, not a lot has changed.
Players like kagawa where always going to struggle
Like it or not United have appointed moyes on a long term contract with the job of rebuilding the club. I don't believe he will be judged on this season as this season was always going to be difficult but I do believe he will be given a significant amount of money and at least another season to complete the job he was set

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27 Feb 2014 09:26:42
Moyes completing the job? problem is he does not know what his job is. it clearly wasnt to turn us into a laughing stock in a matter of months. he can have more money but elite players will not join in the summer because he clearly will not make them better players and offer a vision of the future challenging for major honours. how can he when he has never won anything in his managerial career. we are stuck with him I agree, but I have a sneaky feeling we may slide further down before the season ends(its possible) and may even finish 8th or 9th. I agree the players are letting us down badly but Moyes gets paid a lot of money to manage our great club and if we are saying the only answer is to throw loads of money at last years champions then we should have brought in a manager with a pedigree befitting our great club. I don't think moyes will turn it round with 200 million and I doubt he is capable of getting us top 4 no matter how many t.windows he has. nice guy but a little fish in a big pond. body language worrying and that transfers onto the pitch

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The point is he isn't getting the best out of the current players, so why would he get the best out of the new players? If players are uninspired by the manager, then the manager is fighting a losing battle. Whether the players are on the slide is irrelevant. They can all still play much better than they have been, so why aren't they playing better? Moyes didn't lose the dressing room, he never had it in the first place.

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Syd
A lot where prob all ready leaving .
Ferdy vidic evra.
Some simply aren't good enough young, cleverly etc.
And then our 2 best players from last year Carrick Rvp have both been injured.

I think this season was always going to be difficult which ever manager was taking over . Arsenal and liverpool have benefited from a settled squad and have been improving over the last 2 year . City and Chelsea while changing there manager have better players than us .

There is an argument that top players shouldn't need to be inspired, they should give there all for the club that pays there wages.

I have said many times this isn't a top team average back 4, average cm, average wingers. Ferguson was the greatest or one the best ever managers there has been who had brought a stability that no other team in Europe have enjoyed.
It was always going be difficult for who ever took over I'm amazed that people expected any different .

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A lot of the complaints I am reading on this site are exactly the same I read last year.
The difference is this year people are blaming moyes, last year they blamed the players as no one would dare question fergy.
We could be playing better but I'm not convinced we would of been top 4 even if we where as the scouse, arsenal, city and Chelsea have been able to field better players .
Take rvp and Rooney out the team and it doesn't look a top 4 team to me .

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The squad needed building last season and the season before, but under SAF we still managed to finish on the same number of points as City or more. Under Moyes with the same squad (in fact better) we are 7th and we have been disgraceful. Where would we be now under SAF? We would be up there with the others for sure. Doubt we would have won the league, but we would have been there or thereabouts at this stage of the season. I am not directly blaming Moyes, it's not his fault the players do not want to play under him. This mistake is down to the owners for employing Moyes. I don't think this squad ever wanted Moyes to replace SAF and its now becoming more and more apparent. When Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra leave we will know more, but unless you are purposely turning a blind eye to what's happening, it's pretty obvious to most. We need reinforcements, but that isn't the main problem here. The main problem is the players aren't happy and that is why we are playing so poorly this season.

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Jred, I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, we certainly need squad improvements and some of the players are not good enough to be first teamers, but this exact same squad can play better and the reason they are not IMO, is mentally. I do not believe the players have dealt with the change of manager properly. Too much change, too quickly and they look nervous without the great man. I think we will improve with signings, but I think Moyes is the wrong man to take us forward long-term. IMO SAF should have retired sooner to make sure a better and more high profile manager was able to replace him. I think it's all been handled amateurishly.

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Syd is right on this one.

The key question is not whether the squad is one of the best in Europe or even the league. The key question is: do people think David Moyes is getting the best out of the players he has?

SAF's main strength was that he could get players to perform at their best. This season Moyes has struggled to get any players to perform at their best, even Rooney is playing below his best, albeit better than last season. With such a massive drop in form throughout the squad you have to ask why that is the case. Moyes needs to shoulder part of the responsibility for this, and the majority of responsibility for his inability to make strides to turn things around.

I think Moyes is here for the long-run. I doubt he could have performed much worse so far and he's still here and fully backed by the owners. Next season he won't get the sack either. He has performed so abysmally this year that he can only improve next season. So even if we are merely competing for a top 4 position the club can claim that he is making progress.

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Syd
Ferguson was THE best manager ever, is moyes as good? No
Will moyes or any other manager get as much out of a group off players as fergy could? No
Last year lots of teams where poor and underperformed, I actually think United over performed, this year the standard has been much better. City Chelsea arsenal and liverpool have imo played better football than we did last year, city and Chelsea have better players.
Arsenal got more points in the second half of last season than United and have continued to this season.
Even with fergy due to injuries to Carrick and Rvp I don't think we would be top 3 this year.

Can this group of players play better? Yes
After having a manager of Fergys ability and stability leave the club was it likely that this team would not play as well?Yes.
This year was always going to be difficult I am amazed people are surprised.
The team needs rebuilt and it can't be done over night.
Moyes needed to get his own team in as soon as possible, he has to put his own stamp on the team as soon as possible and if that means some pain for long term gain then so be it.this has to be moyes team and the sooner the better.

I wouldn't of appointed moyes but imo it is to early to judge because the task of replacing fergy and building the team is massive and is why moyes was given a 6 year contract. I would imagine that the people in the know realise this and I think moyes will be given time.

I do wonder if things would of been different if moyes had of got the players he wanted in the summer and injuries had been better.
Will moyes turn it round? I don't know but if we start to give managers a few month to build a team or expect instant success it will be the beginning of the end .

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Danny, exactly my thinking. However I think there will need to be a massive improvement when the spend big bucks this summer, if there is still no change then I think he will be sacked by November. But like you said, it would be hard not to improve.

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Replacing fergy was huge, he was more than a manager he was united.
I'm not surprised the new manager has struggled . I don't think the club will be that surprised I think like ed has said the club realize the squad needs rebuilt .
I also think they realize how big and difficult this is going to . I think fergy could see this coming and that's what was behind the whole ' you need to get behind the manager " speech.

Because of all of that I think it's to early to judge, I'm not a moyes fan I said that at the time, I said he will have to prove himself but when you take in to account all the above I think he will need more than the 7 months Sydney and Danny have given him or the 7 minutes others did.

Danny Sydney may be right, but for me it's to early to judge I expect the club and fergy feel the same

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Jred, Jose wasn't my choice to be manager as he wasn't a long-term solution, but he would have done a much better job than Moyes has done due to his status and the fact he is a proven winner. He would have had the players geed up and they would be playing their hearts out for him. He would have been an instant inspiration to the players and that is what the players are missing. They are not convinced by Moyes and this is the outcome. We do need better players, but I have a feeling we need another manager more. I really hope I'm wrong and Moyes is a success, but if you cannot inspire the players, what hope do you have?

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Jred, no one expected us to be an instant success after SAF stepped down, City were always going to be difficult to top this season, but no one expected this to happen. No one could have forecast this. It's been a complete disaster and I wonder if Meulensteen would have done a worst job? I don't think he would have. What we needed when SAF stepped down was subtle changes, someone like Moyes replacing Phelan, working under SAF for a season to eventually takeover. The players would have been able to get used to Moyes and the club could have seen if it was going to work. We would have kept the same coaching staff and scouting staff. Targets could have been worked on by both Moyes and SAF. Subtlety could have worked. If we were going to bring in a manager, change the coaching staff, scouting staff and tactics, then it should have been a proven manager that the players would have looked up to and respected. I think it was handled poorly and MU only have themselves to blame. It's not like SAF didn't have time to prepare for this.

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I find it interesting that some say give Moyes until November/Christmas because what are we going to do then? If we sacked him then all the money will have been spent and we would have to find an interim manager, next season would be a potential write off as well as this. That would put us in the realms of Liverpool 1990. What I can't see is how he will suddenly change and inspire a group of top players, if and it is an if top players come in they could be as unimpressed as the present bunch seem to be. Is Moyes going to change his philosophy over summer? If the answer is no then we need to make a decision at the end of the season.

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Syd
Fergy wanted out not a number 2 .
No top manager will take a number 2 job why would they .Moyes needs to build a moyes team it is hard to accept but the fergy era is over.
This is what happens when a club lose a manager like fergy .
Fergy leaving was always going to be difficult, would Jose, guardiola got more out this team? We will never know

I argued for Jose over and over again, big enough personality etc was my key argument.
I said back in October we wouldn't make top 4 I still think we will finish 5.
I never expected our next manager to just walk in to the job and be great as following fergy was always going to be hard, again I and others argued this smooth transition talk was rubbish.
I think the club will be well aware of this, I think they and fergy understand the size of the job and as I said in my OP I agree with the ed on this

Red man Sydney I stand by all my above posts I think it is to early to judge and there is FAR FAR more to our current form than the players don't like the manager or its solely down to the manager.

I have always said this will be a difficult season I wouldn't of had moyes as manager as I don't like his style of football but IMO it is to early to judge him as I think it is a bigger job taking over from fergy and improving this squad than one season.

Only time will if moyes can be successful but I will judge him on next season.
I hope we as a club don't go down the instant success or sack the manager route .
Fergy picked moyes I hope the great man was right

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Syd, my own opinion is that Rene is a coach, not a manager. A very good coach, but a coach nonetheless.

I know he's not been blessed with good fortune in his fledgling managerial career, but he just doesn't strike me as a leader of men.

Personally, I don't think we'd be any better off than we are now.

ps. Jose wasn't an option, no matter how many times his name is brought up!

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That was my post not sure what happened thought I was logged in

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Jred, I am not talking about SAF retiring, of course that was always going to happen, but it should have been planned better and if that meant retiring a year or two earlier then that should have happened.

StevieK, Jose was an example I was using. I was also using Rene as an example. Neither would I have chosen to be manager. IMO there is no difference in us going for someone like Pulis. He's done no worse than Moyes in his career.

I will of course stand by Moyes and hope he proves the majority of MU fans wrong, but my gut says he's not the man for the job.

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Sydney
I think when ever he retired it was going to be an issue.
Look what happened when he announced his retirement last time.

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That is very true. We struggled mentally then too didn't we. Hopefully this is a bedding in season and with a clear out in the summer and a lot of new faces, things will change. I just hope we get the players we want as one thing I do trust Moyes with is wanting the best players. I think us looking at Vidal, Shaw and Mata proves that.

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Oh please, Syd. Are you seriously telling me that you'd just as much enjoy watching Stoke under Pulis, as Everton under Moyes?

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26 Feb 2014 22:00:22
Well, not many rumors around today. Anyhow, I would like to bring up the subject of David Moyes.

Most people's first choice last spring to replace Ferguson was Klopp. Mourinho, Guardiola, Blanc and even Solkjaer were mentioned as potential candidates and each had their own attributes. There were also a couple who wanted David Moyes to be the manager ( can't for the life of me recall who had Moyes as their first choice ) because he was cut from the same cloth as sir Alex.

He's driven, hard working, respected and gets the best out of his players. But that's not what got him the job, it was more about his ability to build new teams, like sir Alex and Wenger have done. We needed to build a new team, and Moyes seemed like the most capable in that particular respect. The board saw he had the needed attributes, hence the 6 year contract. But the Glazers, whatever you would like to say about them, are not stupid and neither is Woodward ( ok he is in football sense, but he is a financial genius ).

Moyes came after his holidays ( he was not allowed to join the squad before his Everton contract expires not because he's lazy ). We seemed to be going after unrealistic targets, but it was a clear indication of how he wants us to play eventually. We were interested in Fabregas and Thiago, 2 of the most creative central midfielders out there. But unfortunately, for every fabregas, you have a Baines/ Fellaini. Baines is a magnificent player, but he is the type of full back who will stay behind and fire crosses from deep, as opposed to the wing speedsters who will overlap and allow the wingers to move inside ( Evra, Marcelo, Alba. ). Fellaini was great for Everton, and one of the best midfielders in the division. Statistically, he was in the top 20 players in the top 5 european leagues. But, there's always a but. We went after Fellaini, overpaying for him, when better options were out there. Strootman is seen as a future dutch captain, and a Ferguson target. Axel Witsel is the most technically capable enforcer there is. Both of whom were openly discussed on this page, and seen as better alternatives to fellaini, and eventually Khedira.

Now, I'm a big Fellaini supporter, and I believe he is a great player, and might turn out to be a very important part of the team, but there were better alternatives. De Rossi is twice the player Fellaini could ever be, and yet.

When the preseason started, we were performing like utter crap. We lost 3 games, drew two, and won only once. It's okay, that was just the preseason and Moyes is yet to get to know his team. The community shield came, and we wre not at our best, and yet we won. We also defeated Swansea on the opening game, and all was good and rosy. Then the tough fixtures came. We played badly, but we wee not expected to defeat Chelsea, Liverpool, and co, especially since Moyes is getting to know his team. We defeated Leverkusen, played a wonderful game on our way to City, where we got utterly dominated. The calls for Moyes' head started, but some of the more sensible people were going to give him a chance, after all city is a better team than us. Then we lost to West Brom, drew with Shakhtar and Southampton and went undefeated for 12 games on a row, drawing 5.

We were starting to believe in Moyes. We defeated an all conquering Arsenal, embarrassed leverkusen, and Januzaj was making his breakthrough. Then disaster struck. We drew to Cardiff and Tottenham, and lost to Everton and Newcastle on the bounce. We went winless for 4 games. A couple of wins later, we lost to Tottnahm, got knocked out of the fa cup by Swansea, got defeatd, and eventually knocked out of the league cup by none other than Sunderland, got dominated by Chelsea, in a game where Samuel Eto scored a hat trick. We then lost to Stoke, drew with Fullham and Arsenal, and eventually crumbled facing the might of Olympiakos.

So, we're 11 points off fourth place ( virtually twelve considering Liverpool's goal difference ), knocked out of both domestic cups by minnows and we're on our way out of the champions league against the worst side in the competition ( it can be argued that we are the worst side of the competition ).

Moyes has done some good work. He got Mata, improved Rooney's form at the beginning of the season, helped Januzaj make the step up, and well that's it.

He has also been embarrassingly bad in some other aspects. He failed to get some of our long term targets ( Thiago, Strootman, Garay. ), crumbled to the demands of Rooney ( a decision yet to prove it's worth ), got us playing the worst football we have ever played ( in the premier league ), suffered more defeats than we ever have, take the talent out of Kagawa who was beginning to show his worth at the end of last season ( Sir Alex reckoned he was going to be one of our best players ), destroy Van Persie's form by making Rooney the center of our team, becoming a Rooney centrical team, get us knocked out of every cup competition we're in, and decrease the stock price of the club.

Now as I said earlier, the Glazers are no persons, and they will not be shooting themselves in the foot. They would never give a manager blind faith just because Ferguson said so. Fact is, Ferguson is a genius. His intellect is only rivaled by Mourinho in the modern game, while Moyes is your Garden variety over performer. He does not possess an above average IQ, nor the aura that scares the hell out of the players, both of which Ferguson was known for.

They must have put in a clause to protect their asset without having to pay over the odds to get rid on an under performing manager.

Fact is, with such showings, Moyes would have been pushed out the door by any top club in the world. He would have been at Tottenham, Arsenal, Liverpool and so on. We are a club with more global support, and more investments riding on the line, than the aforementioned clubs.

I would bet that Moyes' contract has a certain performance related clause, that would allow the Glazers to release him without having to pay a bucket load of cash to do so. We'll wait and see what happens when it becomes mathematically impossible for us to get a champions league spot, likely to be in the next month or so. If we do not see tangible signs of improvement, I see him being pushed out the door before the end of the season.

Who do you reckon would replace him? I'd say bring back Meulensteen on a caretacker role until the end of the season to steady the ship and boost the players. He knows the club, he knows the players, and is very well respected.

In the summer, we would look at the availability of the " big name " managers. Klopp, Blanc and Simeone should be on the shortlist. If none is available, then I'd take a solid, experienced manager to leave the club in a better state for the new long term manager. Van Gaal is my first choice. Experienced, has a winner mentality, is proven at the top level, and will get us playing the kind of football we have been crying out for for the last couple of years. If not, then we'll have to take a huge bet and get one of Pocchetino or Hyypia ( Leverkusen's manager ).

Regulars and Ed004, who would you like to see replace Moyes ( if you lost trust in him obviously )?

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{Ed004's Note - Fantastic post and have agreed with everything that was written. I know this isn't a popular opinion but Rooney should have been flogged in the summer and he should not have gotten a new contract. How good hindsight is though. I think after this season we should depart with Moyes. Ideally Klopp though I would take any of the alternatives. Main thing is we need to have a plan with the new manager and go straight for the players he wants. No messing around scouting players just go straight for them. IMO Moyes time is up}

Very good post

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Great post mate, agreed with everything really and you got every point spot on! I'm so disappointed to see players like RVP frustrated as he was a great servant for the club last season and moyes has completely destroyed his form and confidence

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Completely agree with you both. I think last night, for me personally, was the tipping point. I really wanted him to succeed and turn it all around, but I just can't see it happening and we are beyond a joke now. I genuinely can't believe at how fast we have declined in 12 months. Kloop for me all the way, always was my first choice

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26 Feb 2014 23:54:58
Chaps,

The very second Fellaini signed on the dotted line, I was skipping through the doors into work (literally) the following day.
The fact you payed over the odds gave me even more ammo to take the mick ( in a friendly manner ) with my MU supporting work mates.
I have never rated him myself (and not just because I don't like his hair!) but their wasn't too much disagreement that he just didn't 'look' like he would perform in a red shirt as well as he has in blue one.

I have never, ever been a fan of managers immediately looking to bring in players from their previous clubs.
I am an lfc fan so have had to put up with the very same ribbing from my colleagues with some of BR's decisions, and although I would love your boys to carry on in the same vain as you have been, its just not going to happen.
I like Moyes the man, no comment on Moyes the manager.

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{Ed007's Note - Can you please log-in before posting in future, thanks.}

All this without the customary vote of confidence from the Board ;-)

Whilst I agree his contract probably does have some performance related break points I think sacking him after 1 season will almost certainly result in SAF resigning from the Board (don't forget whose chosen one he is) and, quite likely, Sir Bobby following suite. That would cause reputational damage to the club and brand so I somehow doubt it will happen unless SAF becomes convinced he's out of his depth. SAF is a stubborn old f@rt, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

I hoped Moyse would do it but he looks hopelessly overwhelmed by it and some of his decisions are frankly quite bizarre. Latest, last night trying to chase the game he only used 2 subs when Wig, who had his best game for us on Sat was bench warming. Why not take off Smalling, drop Tony V back and give us an extra body in MF?

Feel sorry for the guy as it's looking increasingly as if he was promoted beyond his level of competence.

Anyway to answer your question. Your first choices are sound though I doubt Larry White would leave project PSG. Your outsiders, Hypia? what makes him a better choice than Moyse? Pocchenno is easy to understand - but only if you speak fluent Spanish!

I would look for someone to give stability, who has a proven track record of building teams and who will bring through youth/ younger players and has a reputation for playing attractive winning football. Then see who applies.

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I am a Gooner, that is without doubt the best post I have ever seen, on any site.

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Sorry ed007

It definitely says that I am logged in.
I have checked again while posting this
Thanks

sivy1001

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{Ed007's Note - That's you now buddy.}

If we were to change managers I honestly couldn't see it happening until the end of next season if things haven't much improved. Although I agree the logical thing to do would be to go for a manager with the proven experience of re-building squads, playing attacking football, developing youth, and competing at the highest level etc. I would like to throw a curve ball and see what you guys would think. Eric Cantona. He has already said he could see himself managing united and knows exactly how he would go about it, and would like to build a team that plays the way he believes the game should be played. He would undoubtedly galvanise the club as a whole and I believe he has the exact character needed to succeed in the utd job. And I think he has that aura about him that would have the top players believe in him, one of the things questioned about about david moyes. The snag, he has said he wouldn't want to manage the club under the current regime.
Thoughts?

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Great post Mick1 but I'll be the only naysayer I don't believe Moyes will be sacked, let's consider if he is sacked and we get . Blanc in for instance what happens if he can't get our prima donna's playing will we see the exact post next year?
I supported United since 66 we have been a lot worse
Stick with him if they thought he was the one for the job in the first place

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Hyypia? That's Sami Hyypia, right? The same Sami Hyypia that spent 10 years as a Liverpool legend and cried unashamedly on his final game for the club? The same Hyypia that described the Liverpool managers role as his dream job? You have more chance of signing George Clooney as a central defender than getting our Sami to manage you lot.

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26 Feb 2014 21:34:15
Anyone think there is any truth to what Balague says about us having 200m to spend, and it's all going to be spent in the summer?

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26 Feb 2014 19:19:06
Normally it would be good to have another game as soon as possible but actually this time the delay may be a good thing giving time to consider the position and make adjustments. This season we have on a few occasions seen the vivid pictures of United directors including SAF looking shell shocked and embarrassed, last night was no exception. I believe it was blatantly clear last night the players are not buying into the philosophy and heard it said thank goodness we were not playing a more potent team.
Our next home game is Liverpool, are they beatable? Sure, but we are vulnerable in our present state and it has to be said that having lost last night the state of mind may be that we will not want to lose to the Scousers, however that already could mean a resurgence of the don't lose philosophy we saw last night. I said a couple of weeks ago that the Liverpool game could be a defining moment but it also could also be a potential embarrassing moment. Lose and lose badly could see OT seriously turn against the manager. Even if that isn't the moment the next home game is City and won't they love to embarrass us. Yes we could win both games but can anyone see that?
I wonder if the senior people want to sit through that, should it happen. I also want to come at this at another angle, to consider Moyes the person, because this could go wrong and affect Moyes. Like Sexton Moyes seems a decent man, a decent Manager who deserves a chance, but that chance needs to be elsewhere and at the right level. I believe United need to consider Moyes the person right now and actually parting company may save him some unnecessary grief.

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Red Man

I did not realise you were such a caring sort of guy:)

I am sure DM appreciates the concern, that you are being so thoughtful.

Maybe we should also ask some of the players who are doing the shirt no justice and an embarrassment to hand it back in and save themselves the mental anguish and scars of being outplayed by fellow professionals.

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GCU

Maybe not last night but those players have already got the medals to prove what they could do for the club. The question is why they are not playing for this manager and there is an obvious answer. You may not have been around but what happened to Sexton was grim yet this has the potential to be a lot harsher. Moyes is a decent man, as was Sexton and I don't want the man destroyed just sacked

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We better get eliminated, unless we won't have to face the likes of Madrid, Bayern or barcelona and get Bullyied.

Well GCU since Moyes is doing everything he can in your eyes, we just can wait and see the amazing results in 6yrs withou silveware. Manchester United way, longevity right! At all cost.

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Red man. I cannot stand Moyes management. But I agree that Moyes the man is very decent guy. And whatever happens, let's hope he recovers and does well in his career.
Cgu, you and red man are both right. The players are not turning up but we also know they're good enough. So I think the fault lies with everyone, they should sit together and agree on our best tactics, hopefully not 442, and then go all out to implement it.

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Redman I was thinking about the sexton situation today myself. He won his last seven games still got sacked because it was like watching paint dry . Nice bloke though like moyes.

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Pancho

I think there are real similarities between Moyes and Sexton and I remember the seven games as well. It is really painful because we have just allowed a position of strength to be thrown away by this appointment and didn't learn from our history. Sexton was given money and bought Joe Jordan, Gordon McQueen and Ray Wilkins yet still achieved nothing and that is one reason why I am very concerned at giving Moyes anything more.

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Redman & Nomid

I remember sexton. I think some of the players are well past their sell date and some are yet to come good and are hit and miss. Put together with a new manager, who does not seem to have everyones support and we are in an absolute rubbish place.

The issue is I don't believe we will do anything and if anything they will move players, who are not buying into the new management.

There were players who stopped actually closing down last night and did not try IMO.

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Nick86

We are eliminated. I don't think we will score enough in the return leg.

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Redman
I remember being really excited about getting Jordan and McQueen and then Wilkins but at times it was really boring. Got runners up once under sexton and beat the scousers in the semi in 79 after a replay which is always fantastic . But generally it was drab.

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Pancho

I was at the first semi at Maine Road in 79 and we got through against a superior team in the replay. Like you said it was very dull functional introspective football and it's what we can expect with Moyes going forward if we keep him, although I desperately hope we don't

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27 Feb 2014 18:31:06
Worst display by an English club in Europe since Blackburn Rovers.

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26 Feb 2014 18:52:00
sure av jus heard on radio if season ticket holders don't go to the 2nd leg in champs league.they can't go to city game.did I hear it wrong surely I did

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You did hear it wrong. From now on season ticket holders are being paid to go and watch the team.

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It relates to the automatic cup scheme for season ticket holders. You have to buy cup tickets but if they don't hold a card detail to pay with you have to contact them to buy the cup ticket. If those with a season ticket don't buy an Olympiacos ticket they are suspended from attending the next league game. It is a draconian system that I disagreed with whilst a season ticket holder.

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Someones taken the piss

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Rob
Yeah they have! Since 2005!

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26 Feb 2014 18:05:58
Can't see moyes being a bad manager, done excellent at everton all these years, just needs to learn to motivate players and get the best out of them, seems their fault though not his! Talks of you guys selling Hernandez, but personally I'd sell rvp, get a world class striker who wants to be there, and keep chicarito as a sub! Probably an unpopular opinion but he looks useless at the moment!

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Moyes should not need to learn how to motivate players, he's not exactly wet behind the ears is he.
Rvp is pure class, he is hurting too and just because he says what he is feeling straight after the game he shouldn't be condemned for that. sadly I feel one had to leave this summer in terms of Rooney or Rvp and imo we gave a contract to the wrong player.

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CTR

I think there are many of players who are going to get the bullet this summer and yesterday some killed themselves.

I have never seen a united team where so many players had a terrible night. It is easy to vent at the guy who gets the biggest wage and most publicity and some rightfully so but there were so many that were so bad.

I do agree RVP should not be condemned but he is very frustrated with Rooney and there have been words between those two at halftime during a few games.

I would personally not have gone about building a new team around Rooney being 29 in October this year but then again I am not United's manager:)

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GCU, i'm not venting at Rooney, I wanted him gone for over a year now but that all is now irrelevant as he's here to stay and I will support his role in the team, I just feel for a bloke who was so instrumental for us last year and our top goalscorer and at least 50% why we won the league, being given lesser treatment and being discarded to the scrap heap for some1 who couldn't even be arsed to get himself fit last season and that has wasted at least 2 seasons of his career because of this.
Add on top of that requests to leave and IMO we should of let him go! Took 25m and built a team around Mata who again IMO is better in the role he wants to play.

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Well said Chris. This whole Rooney thing is ridiculous. The man who won us the title can't get a look in due to Moyes fawning over Rooney. God help us as he'll be captain next.

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AJH & CTR

I understand where you are coming from and also supportive of why RVP is frustrated and have said many of times, I do not like the style of our football and for me it is a team that is designed for a few players rather than the other way round.

The reality is he will be gone this summer because neither him or DM will compromise in my view as moyes is banking on rooney.

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I can't believe the free ride that RVP gets on this site. He has been there for what 1 season? As soon as things don't look rosey, he starts to throw his toys out of the pram and moans. He blames his team mates and looks dis-interested on the pitch. But yes we can give him a freebee because he is Robin Van Persie and he has got a sexy tan. Some perspective, he looked dire and missed a sitter the last game we played. Blaming it on Moyes or SAF leaving is just meh. By the way he is still playing as a number 9 whenever fit, how on earth is that not getting a look in because Moyes is fawning over Rooney? The little boy seems a little lost isen't it, may be Fergie can knock some sense back into him.

Deeps.

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I don't get why everyone keeps banging on about rvp winning us the league last season so we should get rid of Rooney! Rooney has been a great player for us and has won us more games/cups then rvp. Also rvp clearly unhappy that fergie and his pal rene left in the summer and has been 'injured' for quite a few games thia season, imo if one has to go i'd pick rvp to go as atleast rooney puts in a shift and wants to play instead of sulking!

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I agree Deeps. I think RVP is a top-class player, and you know how I feel about Wayne.

However, and I don't know if his quotes have been misinterpreted, if it's true that he is spitting out the dummy as soon as things get tough, then I'd have to say, 'thanks for last season, Robin, and goodbye.'

Manchester United players should be mentally strong enough to play their best for this club, no matter who the manager is. Even if Moyes is dumped, who's to say it won't happen again with another manager.

Sometimes, it's when things aren't going so well, that you see peoples' real character (or lack of). This period has told me a bit more about a few of our players.

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Stevie, I can never endorse the concept of kicking people when they are down. This is exactly what is happening. He was not mine, your or a lot of people's first choice. Yes he has made way too many mistakes for my liking, yes there have been a few surprising exclusions, but all said and done if what RVP said has been correctly interpreted, I have to say that's extremely distasteful. Now he comes out and uses the word lousy etc. He is one of our best players, shouldn't he as a senior player take the lead and help us get out of this slump. But no, he is busy giving interviews that are nothing but thinly veiled jibes/digs at Moyes. If he has problems, why go public. IMO, Wayne has not always covered himself in glory over the years, but then he hs been here for over 10 years and always shows the fight no matter what. SAF has always played players out of position over his tenure here, RVP is playing in his preferred position, yet moans about people coming into his spaces? Its a big god damn pitch.

You are so right mate, these tough times show who is the real deal and who is a chicken. Mind you, I personally think even Wayne should donate his wages for a week based on that show. I am just miffed with everyone. Yes David is letting us down, but the whole team is letting him down. Kid me not, I have seen how Everton played last season, at times better than us from a footballing standpoint. So if people are here to say that Moyes is so bad that our over paid lads cannot pass a ball, sorry they can do one!

Deeps.

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26 Feb 2014 18:05:19
AVB was sacked by Chelsea after losing the 1st leg of a CL tie away from home and then away to West Brom.

Who do we play next?

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{Ed002's Note - AVB did not get sacked for losing those games.}

Just out of curiosity what does AVB and his sacking have to do with us?

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Lol West brom fc are many a football managers grave yard.

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I didn't say he did Ed002? I was just pointing out it was after those 2 games.

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26 Feb 2014 16:42:11
Banter this time please ed


26 Feb 2014 01:24:13
Well who would have paid Rooney 2700 for that drivel?

Oh yeah we just have!

I don't care which team you play in but ANY world class player who has just signed his dream contract and himself DEMANDED a great game from everyone to lead by example and produce that utter pi*h is a disgrace!

I hope to Christ that the deal is to punt him in the summer! The most shocking deal given to a 'professional' I have ever seen in my life.

By no means think I'm blaming just him but if ANYONE thinks he is captain material your having a laugh.

Singularly the most disgraceful performance I've seen from any Utd team in my time (90) especially after the captain and captain elect both called for a big game!

Joke!

Moyes needs time? What for? Bring in mediocre players who would have pride to play for us? I thought we were one of European elite striving for the best? That means only the best will do. starting with someone in charge who can actually get something out of these disgraces of players!

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Think that's a bit unfair on Rooney tbh. Look how deep he was having to come to try and get our non existent midfield ticking

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And what did this world class player on a shocking amount of cash for no reason bring to this pathetic midfield?

Oh yeah, nothing!

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Totally unfair Jono. Rooney was probably the only player to give his all, covering everyone else's mistakes.

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Jono

Wayne was p!ss poor, that is clear. But then so convenient of you not to mention Robin's brilliance the other night. What wages is he on? Missing a sitter and sitting on his arse on the grass for a prolonged period of time. With our club going through such a sticky period, agenda driven posting is still a priority I see.

All the players that played y'day except for Vida and DDG should be fined a month's wages based on that performance.

Deeps.

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How good would cr7 be in goal? Rooney is not a mifielder! How many times did RVP drop into mf to try spark it into life! NOT ONCE. Rooney gets a lot of stick for sacrificing his best position for the good of the team. At least he attempted to get us going

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26 Feb 2014 19:00:08
Frankly I don't think the club has enough cash to attract the players needed to restore our position. This is a poor squad made good by SAF and his ability to motivate. For anyone else in the manager's chair they are exposed for what they are. mediocre!

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26 Feb 2014 16:04:36
Mike Phelan has come out and said that he think Moyes will have to have two shopping lists, one for European football and one with out. RVP has also said he essentially gets to service. I know that Moyes has a long contract, but how long does this go on? The players have no confidence in him and don't want to play for him. Imagine what SAF would do with this squad considering he walked away with the League without a fit Rooney and without Januzaj, Mata, Zaha and Fellaini. And under SAF we would arguably have players like Garay, Strootman and Di Maria who all seemed very likely additions.

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Phelan is talking nonsense, everybody knows that Moyes does his shopping at Ice Land and he'll be eating chicken dinosaurs regardless of European football.

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26 Feb 2014 08:54:48
Hi eds I posted the other day that I didn't think 100 million was enough to overhaul this squad. You partially agreed and said that it would take 18 months however which is fair. My question is who do u see as manager in 18 months time?

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{Ed004's Note - Things can change a lot over the space of 18 months. I can't see it still being Moyes on current form}

26 Feb 2014 15:48:14
No point repeating the same things posters have already covered. I agree though, worst performance so far under Moyes IMO. I can't even believe it, to be honest.

I think it's safe to say a win / 3pts, is the anomaly this season, terrible performances and losses are the norm. Last night was very much a normal showing under Moyes.

I honestly see March being his last stand, and here's why, IMO. Long-winded so I apologise:

WBA (A) - Moyes will be nervy and negative (whats new) with his back to the wall. We'll play terribly, nick a goal via a penalty or an own goal, but WBA (considering their form under Mel) nick a 90th minute equalizer. Result, 1-1.

Liverpool (H) - They're playing far too well to drop points against us, and their attack will have a field day. Result - 0-2 Liverpool, or 1-3.

Olympiakos (H) - They'll come and park the bus like Fulham but be FAR better at it. Moyes will play Young and Valencia, as he feels they are our 'big game players', and while we might breach them once, our leaky defence will get caught napping. Result - 1-1, 1-3 aggregate, OUT.

Man City (H) - Tonking. Result - 1-3 City, maybe 2-4.

We'll take 1 point out of 9 in the league, again, and be eliminated from CL by the 'weakest' team in the draw.

Moyes will be given a golden handshake, and, considering we'll have literally nothing to play for, a caretaker manager will step in (not sure who). The board will then spend 2months aggressively pursuing a world-class boss and promising a warchest.

The reason for this opinion, is without the CL the owners will not want to suffer further on the season ticket front and will want to ensure the fans know that better is to come next season.

Just my view, but given that the players clearly have 'downed tools', the writing is on the wall.

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Love the optimism there, thinking we'll score that many goals!

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For the first time in many years, I am not looking forward to playing Liverpool & City at home. Don't fancy coming out of OT on a Tuesday night following a derby drubbing. At least the Liverpool game is early so I can drown my sorrows after.

Just off an a tangent a little bit, has anyone else noticed we concede quite a few deflected goals?

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Ed

If you sit deep, have a packed defence with all those legs and the opposition is shooting from 18 to 20 yards out it is more of a possibility.

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26 Feb 2014 14:21:28
Liverpool fan here, not to gloat. Though I am a Liverpool fan I am also a football fan. You lot need to calm down a bit and do what you do best. Support whoever is in the shirt. Players come and go, as do managers but the shirt is what counts. Did everyone expect a smooth transition after Fergie went? We have been through what you are going through now and you should learn from our mistakes. Accept that this year is going to be crap and look forward and support. Any new players who are thinking of coming to your place would expect you to support your team always. Give the Manager time to build his own team and if any of the prima donnas don't like the way a manager wants them to play, get rid. Just remember who you are, you don't support players, you support the shirt. A lot of you will only have known success, just as I did way back but you will not achieve anything by in fighting. Accept that the club need you now, more than when you were very successful. Some of the older fans will remember the dark days and when you haved lived through them, the success becomes even sweeter. I am actually enjoying the way that we are doing things now. Seriously though, support the shirt whatever happens. If it doesn't work out with the present manager then keep supporting. I think, given enough time that Moyes will come good for you. It may take 2 or 3 years but you have to accept that. Constant changing will not help. Fergie asked you to give him your support just as some of you older ones gave Fergie your support. Hope it turns around for you apart from when you play us. What is that saying? Oh yes, united we stand, divided we fall.

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Gudonya Robbie.
It is true that we should be supporting the club and the way I see it, it is the hierarchy in the order of Club=>Manager=>Player. This should make it very clear that NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB. And that's what Fergie stands for.
All that said, I still am hopeful that MU will take this time to consolidate their strategy and look forward to next season and take the remaining of this season to filter out the "non fitting".
Everyone deserves a chance just like DM is giving to the players (this season). We will then gauge DM next season after he has refine the team. I think that is only fair.

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All very good coming on here telling us to be loyal, yet I would be interested in the assessment of Liverpools treatment of Roy Hodgson who they gave less time than we have given Moyes. I have said before Scousers I know want Moyes to stay and openly say it suits them the longer he does.
I am one of the older fans who stood by SAF but he had a winning CV, Moyes is clearly out of his depth and does not merit that loyalty

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Amazing how every other manger and group of fans says we need to give Moyes time and support him. However, we all know that privately they are praying that we never fire Moyes. I acted the same way when Liverpool hired Kenny back and when Chelsea hired AVB.

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You sack Moyes then. Who will you get? It will end up manager after manager plus their own back room staff, all costing a lot of money to sack. No stability, changing players to suit the particular manager. Dodgy route to go down. Fergie waited years to start winning and I remember fans wanted him out then. Patience and support. No skin off my nose, like I said, I am also a football fan

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Fair play to ya Robbie mate, thanks for the comments, appreciated bud

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Robbie, I know your game. Leave Moyes at united for another five years, win nothing, become laughing stock, all Liverpool fans in heaven. We know how u feel, as we've wished the same for Liverpool when beitez. Hodgeson and co were your managers.
Sadly, Rodgers seems to have turned it round for you.

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No midfield
You don't know my game as you put it. Football fans are the same the world over. Some are sensible and some are blind. I used to watch Bury in the 60s, I was at the charity shield in the scoreboard end (open) when pat Jennings scored over stepney. I was in the Stratford end against I also used to watch Bolton on a few occasions in the late 60s. It was in 1971 when I first went to watch Liverpool and I was hooked. Travelled all over Europe and the uk . As I said, a football fan.

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Oh, and by the way, George Best is the best player I have seen live. I remember him getting bombarded with oranges because he had done an advert on the telly for Jaffa oranges. Funny how I can remember things like that and forget things from last week. Suppose I am getting old.

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Against Estudiantes in the world club championship, 1968 I think

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Nice one, Robbie. People forget amongst all the over-hyped tribalism, that just because you support a particular team, doesn't mean you can't appreciate other players or clubs.

I always want to see strong Utd and Liverpool teams competing against each other. We need each other more than we care to think.

But maybe we're just getting old, mate.

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26 Feb 2014 14:06:01
There is nothing wrong with holding your hands up and admitting that you are not good enough at something IF you can look in the mirror and with your hand on your heart say you gave it your best shot and gave 100%. This morning I don't think any player can look in the mirror a say that and I think that there are a few people at Manchester United who should evaluate their competency at the level required for Manchester United.

Unfortunately, I now believe David Moyes is one of these individuals! This is not a impulse statement made on disappointment of losing but a statement based on a completely unacceptable attitude and commitment to a competition that is regarded as the biggest club competition in the world.

I tried to support Moyes and looked at the reason's for his appointment and was prepared to give him the chance and back him. I have no issue with him trying to change the tactics and approach to games BUT what I find completely unacceptable is a lacklustre, gutless, effortless, unpassionate performance from the players, and this has to come from the manager. If they believed in Moyes, they would of gone out and offered everything but he has clearly not got the players buying into what he wants to achieve and if this is the case, he has to go. 8-9 Months ago, RVP was running down the line to hug SAF, he looked like a boy who was living the dream, where has that RVP gone? 8-9 months ago, Vidic, Carrick, Cleverly would have been storming out and diving in front of the shot that led to the first goal! Where has that commitment gone? 8-9 months ago, Rio would be carrying out the hair dryer treatment for inadequate passes or decisions! Where has that passion gone?

I believe that no one is bigger than the club but I do think to replace SAF, we need someone who believes they are! We need a manager who players are inspired by and after last night, I'm not sure Moyes is doing this. He has taken over Champions of England who should be oozing confidence but we look like a team who feel sorry for ourselves. I think Roy Keane has come across as bitter and twisted in recent years but sadly I thought his comments were spot on.

So thank you Moysie, you have got me agreeing with Roy Keane!

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Don, t you think that the players should take some responsibility for the performances? They are hardly inexperienced kids are they? Everyone is slating the manager and coming out with all sorts of theories but, at the end of the day, there were enough very experienced players who should be playing, and giving100% for the club. Do they think that they are more important than the club? What about all this badge kissing and fist clenching. That isn't for the manager. It is supposed to send a message to the fans that they are doing it for them. The players have got to be held accountable, but they won't. It's always someone else's fault.

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Sorry, thought I was logged in.

Robbie77, the players' do have to take a degree of responsibility which is why I have said I don't think any player can look in the mirror this morning and say they done themselves justice. I have also said there are a number of people who should evaluate their competency at Manchester United level, I haven't named players as we can all pick out the ones we believe fall into this category.

However, these players with the exception of Januzaj and Fellani, have had at least one season under SAF and won the league. When a new manager comes in, he has to make the players believe in his plans, they have to buy into the project he is trying to build. But it is clear, the players' aren't. Are they competent in winning the league? Yes, they showed that last year but they were inspired by SAF and carried instructions because they believed in him and trusted him. Obviously Moyes isn't SAF but to go from English Champions to 11 points off of 4th, out the FA Cup to Swansea at home, out of the league cup over 2 legs to Sunderland and lost a Champions League game in the last 16 to a Greek club where absolutely no passion was shown. Who does this come down to? The tactics are clearly different this season which I don't have a problem with if the players buy into it and it is successful. So far, it is not, we attack in a very regimented structure where as before, players could be creative and express themselves.

If you get a new boss and he changes things, you go along with them whether you agree or not but if he doesn't convince and inspire you that it is going to be successful, you can't carry it out with passion you did it in before but you will still go out and do it.

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26 Feb 2014 13:47:32
At the risk of repeating what has already been said, I don't think DM is a bad manager, he and his back room staff are just out of their depth.

Can anyone tell me of another world leading multi million pound business that would employ an individual to head up the 'coal side' face of the business without the necessary experience?

I don't buy this $hit that he did a great job at Everton on a limited budget, Tony Pulis and Roberto Martinez did great jobs on far less budgets.

I would be willing to give him another 6 months if he got shut of his backroom staff and brought in more experienced staff to assist in tactics, formations, player selections etc. etc.

I can't help feeling that we missed two great opportunities in Guardiola & Mourinho, top drawer managers experienced at top clubs. Van Gaal is available in summer, have a look at his CV, vast experience at the top clubs.

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Moyes isn't a bad manager mate, the problem is IMO, is that he isn't high profile enough to convince the players he is the right man. If players do not have confidence in the manager, that will show on the pitch.

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Fully agree, bad appointment, he's not turning things around and doesn't look like he knows how. People forget we started ok this season, but have gone down hill since and its getting worse with little or no sign of improvement. I'm sure Fergie is regretting asking the fans to stand behind Moyes no matter what, even he couldn't have foreseen the totally breakdown on the club.

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You guys need to look at your poor squad rather than blaming the manager. Your defense is aging and slow, your midfield is non-existant but your strikeforce is immense. The problem is they have no service.

The only hope for you is to buy at least 6 new players. The problem is all the guys you are quoting like Gundolan, Kroos, Costa, etc. will have no interest in your team. Not everyone is like Rooney and only interested in the cash.

I would wish you luck but I am enjoying seeing you guys suffer.

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Chess,

How can this be the result of a poor squad?

It is almost the same as last season but with the wig added and now mata.

The difference between last year and now is the manager and backroom staff. We have younger options in defence, such as Jones & Evans, granted Buttner is tonk.

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But it is. Fergie got out at the right time. He knew he had to rebuild massively just to compete this year. Instead Moyes came in and could attract no one. Apart from your attack and Mata none of your players can cut it anymore.

I am not saying Moyes is not partly to blame as he is. He clearly cannot motivate his players and seems to be unable to get them to attack with speed like you have for years. However even Fergie would have struggled for top four this season.

I like Jones but Evans and Smalling are horrible. Cleverly is shocking and your wide players have forgotten what their job is.

I do fear for you though as I think you will struggle to make the Champions League for a long while (like Liverpool). You need both a better manager and a new squad and only massively overpaying for players is the answer now.

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Chess, so EPL winners in May, then two months later the squad is poor and aging. No doubt this squad needs investment, but the reason we are doing so poorly this season is down to the manager change.

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Yer Moyes isn't a bad manager but at United you can't just be a "manager", you need to have a presence and be a bit of a character. Genuinely think he has ran out of ideas and it's time for him to go. Simple

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Behave yourself Chess. On paper our squad is still well ahead of yours in terms of quality, the difference is Liverpool are currently a settled, confident side that's playing well. MU are an unsettled side, who are all over the place and clearly not playing well. You do not get a 40 point swing over one season. If SAF was still manager we would be much further ahead than we are.

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"Your wide players have forgotten what their job is"

No they haven't Chess, Moyes has clipped their wings. They are no longer allowed to take on players. Apparently as well as Vidic, Ferdinand and RvP, Valencia too is unhappy about what Moyes is asking him to do. If you watched the game last night you would have seen Valencia doubling up with Smalling. He never got forward, not once. If rumours are true then Valencia doesn't like what Moyes is asking him to do and that is why Valencia hasn't played much recently. #Moyestoonegative.

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Sydney

I watched the tactics employed, that is whilst they were still visible. I think Moyes felt the criticism about two wide players and moved Valencia off the wing and inside. If you recall there were a few occasions Valencia received the ball five to ten yards infield sometimes with his back to goal and unsurprisingly lost it. I believe Moyes may have been trying to drag the full back infield following Valencia to get Smalling free and galloping into the space left vacated. Of course Smalling is not that type of fullback. Valencia pulling infield could well be one of the reasons for RVP's comment as that put Valencia in the area where RVP would come short for the ball.

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It's an odd tactic Red Man as like you said Valencia is the winger, he's the one with pace to beat players. Last night it would have been nice to see Valencia make one forward run with the ball and cut it back across goal for Van Persie. I didn't see Valencia is that position once last night. That is probably one of the only things Valencia is good at, so why would Moyes take that out of his game?

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Sydney

I don't know, I am not sure what he was trying to do but could it be because he was criticised for too many crosses in a previous game?
I felt before the game that used properly Valencia could have given us pace on the break particularly against teams who push their fullbacks up.

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26 Feb 2014 13:32:18
I've supported Moyes all year and I would love for him to turn it around and go onto to be successful, but last night was probably the worst i've seen us play in a very long while. This season is beyond a joke now and how many more chances are we going to keep giving him and certain players? It's ok them all saying, we will try and win the next game blah blah, but they do realise that eventually the games run out don't they? Something clearly is up and not working, maybe its just not meant to be with Moyes and i'm pretty sure if this way any other club, they would have said bye bye by now. We are on the edge of us losing everything Fergie built over 27 years, in a season and in this day and age, when you are at the top you have to do your utmost to stay there, not surrender and give up like we are doing at the minute. I honestly could go on, but I will still be there at the next home game against Liverpool supporting the team. I think last night though sums up our season and that Moyes is out of his depth. Write off

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26 Feb 2014 12:34:32
RVP's comments are very worrying. When one of your best players openly criticises their teammates, and directly links it to tactics, it points toward a lack of harmony and splits in the dressing room.

Now RVP is obviously furious this year: not only did SAF fail to let him know he would be retiring, he is now stuck playing in a system that doesn't fit his style, and his teammates are regularly leaving him isolated and starved of chances. All this has led to a big drop in form this season.

Unfortunately, I think we have to accept that the club is going to stick with Moyes regardless of how poorly he performs (could he actually be doing any worse?). So, now Moyes is faced with a major decision: does he try to change things to suit RVP, does he stick with a clearly unhappy player in the existing system, or does he sell one of our only world class players? It's probably a no win situation because Moyes will either look weak, bowing to a player, or will set out a worrying precedent that anyone who doesn't agree with his methods will be shipped out

A side not, Moyes should have stopped Smalling from watching so much of the winter olympics. The lad spent the whole game yesterday pretending he was playing on ice.

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Who's to say only RvP is unhappy?

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RVP should be ashamed looking for silly excuses, "It was quite difficult because my teammates are often in the area where I want to play. This makes it difficult for me.

"That's why I have to change my tactics. Unfortunately, they are often in my area.

"It was much too slow today and we only had one shot on target in the whole match against Olympiacos, which is far too little. Everyone is very disappointed." is what he actually said. To me that's an obvious and misplaced pop at Rooney, almost as misplaced as the sitter RVP missed. Its a damn big pitch if our whole teams movement off the ball was moving as well as RVP's tongue we would have been much better. He's right on the much too slow I'd add lack of effort and RVP was as guilty as the rest.

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Van Persie received nothing all game. Not a crumb. Even the Smalling cross he had to make into something himself. There's little wonder he is moaning about supply when he isn't being supplied.

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Lol he does seem to of forgot about the sitter he missed

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At least RVP realises and recognises there is a problem.
He even says where (part of) those problems lie.

Moyes on the other seems to be happy with the way everything is "we are doing the right things, and keep doing them", "we are still in the running for the championship/Champions League places"
It seems Moyes doesn't realise this is not where (t)his team needs to be and not the way (t)his team is supposed to play.

This infuriates me the most.

I seriously wouldn't mind sacking him, since I don't see him changing anything until he understands this is not what is expected, and rightly so!
Should he ever realise there is a fault, is he the man to change anything?

not sure

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If you read all the quotes he does not forget about the sitter he missed, he says it was his fault and takes the blame. The problem, as I said further down the page, is with translating quotes from a different language, they can often be misinterpreted and on this occasion have once again been blown out of proportion.

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GDS,

Misinterpreted as those quotes may have been, you don't need to be fluent in Dutch to know that RVP isn't happy right now and, more worryingly, it's starting to effect his form. I've lost count of the amount of chances he has wasted since he returned from injury, certainly nothing like the RVP that almost single handedly won us the title last year.

Unrest behind the scenes, faltering form, nothing to play for the remainder of the season except pride. I hope Moyes has the respect to walk away before the damage becomes unrepairable.

On a side note, Laudrup seems to be unattached at the moment, would be a massive step up from Moyes, at least he has a football philosophy!

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Lets have it right. RVP is stood there complaining about players getting in his way, he fails to mention the bloody sitter that he screamed over the bar.
Stop bitching and looking for excuses and get on with it.
Moyes needs a kick up the ar*e as well for that shambolic team selection.
Why didn't he keep Fellaini in, why was Janujaz left at home?
Both of these players should of played last night, it's not as if he can even use the excuse that he's resting them because we don't have a game for 11 days.

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Rumpel,

Agree with what you are saying, it just frustrates me when people take 'quotes' to beat somebody with that have never ever been said. There are enough facts to moan about at the moment without making a meal of every little comment.

Simmo,

He did mention the sitter, he was asked the questions by a journalist and answered them, he isn't happy with the manager just like we aren't. He shouldn't be moaning and should get on with it I agree, but he must be so frustrated.

We all knew from looking at the team selection last night that we would be up against it, so how did Moyes not see it coming? It confuses me because I am sure he is better than this, but he is coming across as utterly clueless and a man so far out of his depth. Even the fans who are saying give Moyes time would not be disappointed if he was sacked today, says it all.

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GDS, if SAF took over until the end of the season we would instantly improve as confidence and impetus would return, but it's too late now as the damage is done. The question is whether we should trust Moyes with the build.

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Syd, knowing the sort of character Fergie is, I'd say he's disgusted that the players have allowed their standards to drop so dramatically, and is probably disappointed as hEll, that players he nurtured, are showing such mental fragility. I reckon he'd not be to understanding with their little boy lost personas.

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StevieK, IMO SAF made probably one of his biggest blunders ever in putting Moyes forward to replace him. I think the whole thing was handled amateurishly. SAF is a stubborn man and he will keep Moyes there for as long as he can before the Glazers act. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the unhappy players have had meetings with SAF to vent their opinions. It's a real shame it's panned out this way, but once you have lost the dressing room, it's usually all downhill from there for the manager. Luckily though two of the four unhappy bunnies are 100% leaving this summer (Ferdinand & Vidic) and Valencia's & Van Persie's future are in doubt. If it was more than this four throwing their dollies out of the pram you would have to say Moyes would be favourite to go, but he may have had a lucky break that it's this four. However I would rather Moyes went than Van Persie.

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Syd, I think if they went gurning to Fergie, they'd get short shrift, mate, and told to get back out there, stop complaining, remember what club they're representing, and show what they're made of.

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26 Feb 2014 11:55:18
Hi Eds, Great site, love the info and the banter.
I just wanted to echo much of what us fans are feeling in terms of just how disappointing and painful last nights game was to watch. Apologies if this post is overly negative but I'm still getting over the performance.


What I don't understand is why after our last game against Palace - in which Moyes selected arguably our best side (save perhaps for rafa's inclusion) - why did Moyes feel the need to revert to a system and several players that have just not worked this season?
We looked good last weekend, and I appreciate the fact that mata was cup tied prevented him from fielding the same side but he completely changed it up again for this game.


There has been much made of the fact that Moyes is a hands on coach. Which is why I have started to question whether he is the right man for us, as the gaps between the 'midfield' and defence were huge last night which only resulted in most of our possession being confined to our defence (albeit not for long as our passing was shambolic).


Smalling is at best uncomfortable with the ball and at times quite inept. He's not a right back and I question whether he will ever be god enough for us even as a centre back.

Cleverly - Possibly the most underwhelming player to ever pull on a UTD shirt. To say he's a bad player would be unfair to him. However I wonder how far we would have to scroll down the premier league table to find a team that Tom Cleverly could comfortably get into the first eleven. But if we applied that same logic to otr players we have i.e Valencia, Young, Carrick, Rio, Evans, Welbeck etc. its starts becoming clear why we're in the position we are in this season.

I hope I'm wrong, I hope Moyes shows up his doubters, just like Fergie did. but it's becoming less likely.

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{Ed002's Note - You need to register.}

26 Feb 2014 11:22:09
Or maybe even 3 pages ed judging by the amount of traffic?

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{Ed002's Note - It is not going to change.}

26 Feb 2014 10:25:25
Complete disgrace last night none of the players seemed to want to win, I don't believe that Olympiakos players were better they just wanted it more and gave everything. We can bemoan are luck with a deflection for their first goal, we can, rightly, say RVP should have scored ( 2-1 away is not the end of the world) but the brutal truth is we deserved exactly what we got. None of our players this morning can look themselves in the mirror and say we gave our best.

If our players are going to perform like its a Monday morning training session and they are hungover from a heavy weekend, talking formations is pointless but here goes. I've said before, as have others, we have been moving towards a 4231, it really does suit our best players. While I agree it may not be a conventional 4231, with one of the 3 playing more as a winger, it did appear where we were heading. To revert to a 442 beggars belief, to not play or even include Janu (when he has 10 days break after last night) is astonishing. For those of you asking for Kagawa please tell me what he did when he came on other than pass to the opposition?

Moyes will have my support till next Xmas anyway but man he's making it hard. Man u. will have my support forever but that's the first time I've watched us when we didn't seem to try. I feel gutted for the guys who travelled to watch that and glad, now, I couldn't get the time off.

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26 Feb 2014 10:18:19
Two things to point out.
What is wrong with our players' passes! Accuracy hit the bottom, and pass was very very slow so that if opponents was willing to run, they could intercept it. Thought Smallings and Ferdinand were playing against us!
What is wrong with our players' movements! Some of our players just cannot turn forward can they? Also off the ball movements are terrible!

I missed players like Scholesy, Park last night.

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26 Feb 2014 10:18:14
GOOD MORNING EVERYONE,
cheer up utd fans, I am sure david moyes and utd can turn it around and get a good result against olympiacos in the secound leg.i don't think the greeks travel too well and if utd get an early goal, I can see a 4-1 or 5-1 to utd.
ps, there's just one thing, you play liverpool 3 days before the return leg, so you must rest your best players against us, rooney, januzaj, rvp etc, to give it your very best shot against olympiacos, I hope moyes listens to my advice.

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Ha ha well that cheered me up anyway LFC. I'd rather beat Liverpool and get knocked out of the CL, personally. We'll struggle in the next round anyway.

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26 Feb 2014 10:11:12
I'm not yet willing to cross over to the dark side, but my god last night was painful to watch. I've never been so bored during a united match in my whole life. A few things that are even more glaringly obvious than ever are, Rio is finished at the top, Smalling is NOT a right back, Carrick is slowing down further it seems, Young as i've always said is dog sh*t and Valencia is barely better than that, Rooney is no CM player and I just pray the figure of £300k is wide of the mark, RVP just isn't interested, Welbeck is a squad player who can come on late in a game to add a bit of pace but no more, Cleverley isn't good enough to play for us but was far from the worst player last night.

Now, i'm not going to write Moyes off completely because the empire that SAF built included giving the players huge confidence and getting more out of them than should have been possible. When he left, that added confidence and comfort disappeared and everyone now sees just how average a lot of our squad actually is. I'm pretty sure even a Klopp couldn't get Young, Cleverly, Rio, Welbeck etc playing much better. Yes Januzaj didn't play, but he is young and needs to be handled correctly at this age. Fellaini didn't play but is just back from injury and so playing again so soon would have been a gamble. With Jones, Evans and Rafael already out, the team last night all but picked itself unfortunately, as Moyes obviously didn't think Kagawa would work back when needed and so with all the absentees went cautious.

Even my patience is being tested the further into this season we go, but i'm not willing to give up on him just yet. That said, cancelling the sports and MUTV channels has crossed my mind as its just so painful to watch. Not come to that just yet though.

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The players do not have confidence in the manager. It is so clear to see. These players can play MUCH better under better leadership. I think players were unhappy that SAF retired so abruptly and they expected his replacement to be a manager who has won something. A manager with far more experience and a manager who deserves to be manager of Manchester United. If you went through the whole MU squad and asked them who they would have wanted to be manager, none of them would have chosen Moyes. Moyes has single handedly turned an EPL winning squad plus Fellaini, Mata, Adnan & a fit Rooney into this. When will people realise that the only thing that's changed since last season is the manager and the coaching staff. Can you imagine SAF being in charge now with the likes of Fellaini, Adnan, Mata and a fit Rooney at his disposal. We wouldn't be where we are now. The players are struggling mentally and it doesn't look like changing anytime soon. I would hazard a guess that even after a summer of rebuilding we will still not be anywhere near the standard that we should be. Until we sort out the mental side of things, we will continue to struggle.

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Sydney

Until we have a manager who can lead who has the gravitas to inspire the players we could have Barcelona's first eleven and only marginally improve. The new world class players Moyes wants to buy, that some see as the answer, what makes anyone think they are going to think any different either 1 month or 1 year after they arrive? Winners are winners and know what it takes, Moyes doesn't and that is a major issue because he lost the dressing room weeks ago for me. Also this happening so soon after Rooneys new contract is interesting.

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I don't necessarily totally blame Moyes, but I agree that a lot of it is mental as I said in my post, about the confidence and comfort SAF instilled in his long time at the club. I think any new manager would have had to cope with the same thing Moyes is. Maybe Mourinho or Guardiola could have come in and the players may not have dipped quite so much due to their history and success, but neither were available. Any other manager, in my eyes, would have struggled with this squad of players. As much as we say they are champions, much of the squad is average, injury prone or past their best, our first 11 is not one of the top 4 in the league this season, in my eyes, which is why we are where we are. With all the injuries we have had, even if we had one of the best first 11's we wouldn't have been able to play them anyway, and would have had to rely on the below average players like Young, Welbeck, Cleverley, Valencia etc. Add to this the fact that RVP and Rooney don't seem to want to play together and it was always going to be a huge struggle.

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Red Man, exactly. Picture this, you are a player at MU and you have just won the EPL and then from nowhere the manager drops a bombshell and retires. You would be shocked, a little bit excited and a little bit nervous all at the same time. Rumours flying around about Jose. Then you hear that Moyes is going to take over as manager. How would you react? A manager who's won nothing, as a poor record against the top sides and is renowned for playing unattractive football to grind out 1.0 wins. Then he takes over and immediately implements his dinosaur training regimes and it upsets the senior players. Vidic and RvP both fall out with the manager. Ferdinand falls out with the manager. Kagawa, Zaha, Hernandez all frozen out. Then in the summer we sign nobody other than Fellaini. Then you are asked to change the tactics to negative, defensive tactics. How would you feel as the player who has just won the EPL under SAF? Honestly how would those players feel? Wrong appointment. Like you said (credit where it's due) MU needed a "big" manager to succeed SAF. And I do not mean big like big Sam ;)

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With a top manager this set of players would be playing much better and would be finishing in the top four. That isn't all Moyes fault agreed, like I said before, the blame must lay with the owners for appointing him. MU had so much time to deal with SAF's retirement and they couldn't have ballsed it up anymore than they have done. The only way I would have made Moyes manager, is if he replaced Phelan for a season as the number two like the editor has said was possible at one time. That would have meant little change and less disruption. The transition would have been much smoother. Except Moyes changes the coaching staff, the scouting staff, tactics and changed too much at once. This squad does need better players, we needed better players last season, but we were still champions. Moyes simply doesn't give the players the confidence and security that SAF did. They do not trust him and why would they as he hasn't done anything in the game to warrant such a job like this.

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Who would you go with then Syd? My choice was Klopp but I'm unsure of whether even he could handle a club on Uniteds size/stature. The only ones then are the experienced managers who want to move clubs every 3/4 years.

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I wanted Pep and some fractions of MU wanted him too until he agreed a move to BM. I think if SAF personally asked Pep to replace him this coming summer, I think Pep would have agreed to it. but it seems SAF always had his eye on Moyes.

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Syd
Pep is on a reported 17mil Euro a year and is managing the best team in the world I think even if fergy had said pretty please pep would of have the sense to go to Munich

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That's what I mean, he wasn't available and neither was Mourinho, so who would you have gone with?

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Pep on £270k a week? Is he Rooney in disguise?

I would have probably gone for Klopp or Ancelotti.

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Klopp wasn't available either, Syd, according to Ed02.

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When it comes to Man United, every manager is available.

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Obviously not, GAGUS.

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26 Feb 2014 08:01:16
Fair enough gds2 and ajh I'm not gloating far from it. I despise the position my club is in at the moment. I thought moyes was appointed on a wave of emotions. I felt he didn't have the tactical know how nor the international draw for foreign players to come to the club. I feel sorry for him yes but sentiment should go out the window when the best club in the world is being made a laughing stock. I unfortunately predicted though last summer and got lashed for it by fellow posters. I've a question for eds and ajh how long did the club know that fergie would call it a day before he did, and could they of gotten a proven manager in the time span better than moyes

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Major,

No worries, it would appear a lot of people were right, me and AJH were just willing to give a new manager a chance. Problem is, we still have to give him a chance because the board aren't going to sack him by the look of it.

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GDS, there is no shame is supporting your club's manager. All of us want to see it work out, but we would be lying if we didn't admit that deep down in our hearts that Moyes is not the right man for the job. I think players need to respect a manager, they need to believe in him. MU players must be thinking that he hasn't won a bean in his career, not even a League Cup. He has a poor record against the top sides in England and has little European experience. I just think the players have no confidence in the manager. In all honesty it would be easier to sack Moyes and bring in a manager with some real mettle and proven success, but the club will not want to look foolish by doing that. SAF will be telling the board to stick with Moyes. Question is, is Moyes the right man to give substantial funds to? I think we will be okay as Moyes seems to want the best players, but I am not convinced he is the man to lead the team long term. I think if SAF was to return for a season, we would be an almost immediate turn around. Simply because confidence will return to the players.

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I have been one of the people saying moyes should be given time. I would have loved a star appointment that gets us excited like when a major player signs but wasnt worried when we went for moyes. The reason I wasnt worried is because I thought moyes would be a steady hand to steer the ship and slowly slowly implement changes he felt necessary. That never happened and just about everythin except the squad ( that needed a freshen up ) has tried to be changed at once. Coaches, tactics, identity etc. I would love for things to turn around and for it all to turn out rosey as i'm sure we all would. But I got to say its getting harder to think of how without coming to the conclusion of a managerial change. If that was the case then it should only happen when the perfect person is available. don't want us to be like evryone else always choppin and changing.

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26 Feb 2014 08:59:46
Seemingly difficult to qualify for Champions League next season, who are the players that we could actually sign this summer? Gundogan, Kroos, Reus, Vidal etc are just non-sense to me.

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26 Feb 2014 08:58:20
Does anyone else think that Moyes' fate lies fairly and squarely in the hands of Fergie? Without a proven winning track record, no European experience and not having given even the slightest indication that he is taking us in the right direction, it is arrantly clear that the only reason Moyes was brought in (and is still here) is based purely on Fergie's recommendation.

Whether he does so openly or behind closed doors, the time has come for Fergie to either admit he made a mistake or persuade the Board to keep faith with Moyes. Ironic that arguably the most important decision he will make comes after his retirement.

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Why don't the board just overule fergie end of

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Resol you are totally correct.
As an Evertonian I was unhappy with the way in which Moyes was 'approached' by SAF (but I've discussed this previously on this site so will move on).
Fergie wanted Moyes and persuaded your board to back him. However things have now turned extremely sour this season. SAF is extremely quiet at present. Is he waiting for the Glazers to act first or will he come out with an admission that he made a mistake sanctioning the Board to sack Moyes at the end of the season?
One thing's for certain. I doubt Moyes will given time over the summer to potentially waste your war chest when it could be offered to someone else as bait in attracting a replacement.

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26 Feb 2014 08:52:50
Hi folks yep we all agree that something drastic will have to be done with team i.e team and squad overhaul. My question to fans and eds is if u were the board of united would u throw 200 million quid at moyes to spend?

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Don't you mean another 200 million, I think between Mata, Rooney and Felliani fees and wages he's spend the best part of it already.

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Major,
given the signings of Fellaini, and Mata, new deals for Nani and Rooney, I imagine he wouldn't be far off that already. I thought on Saturday that Utd played quite well and that maybe Moyes had finally got a performance to build on.
I think Roy Keane's assessment was spot on last night and even given the bad blood between him and Fergie, he was visibly very angry and cares deeply about the club.
I think some of the players have given up. Van Persie in his own way completely lit the fuse under Moyes with his assault on tactics, players taking his spaces etc.
I might support Liverpool but that doesn't stop me feeling for fans of a great club being decimated by a poor manager. He is breaking records that took Utd years to create.
I don't think he deserves time. He has done nothing to suggest he will change. There is no sign that he has any idea/plan going forward.
Here's the thing; WHEN DID UTD START WORRYING ABOUT HOW OTHER TEAMS PLAYED? I'm sure the answer from any Utd fan will coincide with the day Moyes walked into the job!

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Personally, i'm happy with the 2 players Moyes has brought in so far. Rooney, I hope, isn't on the £300k reported but, at least he is on a longer contract if he loses interest again, so we may get a decent price for him. Replacing him now would have cost a £40m+ transfer fee plus big wages and we would have struggled to get over £25m for him this summer, so financially, it makes some sense to renew his contract for now.

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26 Feb 2014 08:49:11
I'm not saying Moyes should be sacked, but when is enough enough? We have never lost to a Greek team until now, that's anther record he has to his name. He set up defensively to contain the worst side in the knock out stages. The players don't seem to like him, no one likes him. When is the line drawn and he walks? It can't be much longer now even if he would need a huge pay off.

Look at someone like Klopp. He set his team out to attack and they scored 4 away from home at a very tough place to go. There's no comparison, Moyes is a negative manager who plays mind numbingly boring football.

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26 Feb 2014 08:40:32
I was going to post this morning about our situation, nut just read a post further down the page covers just about everything I wanted to say.
It was posted by Ken @ 23.12 last night (the one with no user name at the bottom).
If you didn't read it have a look now, its an excellent and balanced post. So thanks Ken for saving me from having to write it myself! :)

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26 Feb 2014 08:23:37
Haven't posted for a while but obviously still been a regular reader. Not felt like writing much after the tripe I've seen this season to be honest.

I've been backing David Moyes all season and probably still do. If we are honest, what do we expect if we employ a manager with zippo Champions League experience?

However, there just seem to be some glaring errors that DM is making. Cleverley has hardly had a good game all season and why he continues to play is beyond me. I think I'm right in saying that Januzaj has never played in the CL, but surely have him on the bench at least.

I still think the players need to answer for some of this. Judging by the fact that they won the PL last season perhaps suggests that DM has more to answer for. If he has lost the dressing room then this will be difficult to recover.

I was always under the impression that we will give DM 2 seasons no matter what. After all he needs time to rebuild the team. Make no mistake, SAF didn't leave much to inherit. However, if these performances continue, I'm not sure how much longer DM will get.

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26 Feb 2014 08:18:45
Last night was the worst performance I've watched in my 17 years of supporting this club. People will say I've only known success, but having been champions past year with the same squad with a few players added, I would have expected up to make top 4 and comfortably beat Olympiacos. Moyes has lost the dressing room you can see that. Last night the players played like they were trying to get the manager sacked imo. If moyes has any balls he'd drop all 11 players for the next game but of course he won't.

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26 Feb 2014 03:50:14
I don't know why he didn't select the same team as the last game, with Kagawa for Mata. It seemed like the logical thing to do. How can not even have Janazuj on the bench? I think this performance is the tipping point for a lot of supporters. Everybody is talking about summer transfer targets but do you think the owners will trust him with that money? Last game was the first game this season that I was enjoying watching us play . It's very hard to watch a game when he selects Valencia and a Young on the wings and Carrick and Cleverley in the middle. This is the same as last year plus Adnan, Mata and Fellini, yet we are dreadful. Isn't it the managers job to put players in the best position to succeed? Is it just me or does it seem that we don't block any shots unless Jones is playing? Pretty clear a lot of players don't like Moyes and he has no idea how to best utalize the talent he has at his disposal. Hopefully now I can get some sleep.

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I agree flint, hope you got some sleep. I didn't, United is a religion for me. When I see us putting a team out that tries to contain a Greek side to keep it at nil nil, then my blood does boil I'm afraid. I'm not blessed with the patience of others, but at the same time I can see the total cockups that are happening due to utter rubbish management.
If this was any other business, heads would have rolled months ago, and the first one to go should be the manager.

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I think one of the only positives from last night was Kagawa. For a player who hasn't played for a month, he looked very good when he came on. Linked up with Rooney well and should be getting more of a chance. What a difference it makes when you have a player who is willing to go through the middle as apposed to playing it out wide to the likes of Young and Valencia who are too scared to take a player on. I understand Moyes wants them to retain possession, but that isn't how they play. It's like they have been banned from being wingers and they are there purely for defensive reasons. I would love to see Kagawa get a chance with Mata, but I don't see it happening.

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It was the ONLY positive Syd. Just gutted that Moyes hasn't, t got the balls to play Kagawa more, and yes, with Mata too, now that would be good to see and would also concentrate more attacks through the middle.

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26 Feb 2014 02:49:37
I think moyes is turning out to be roy hodgson of mu,
Bad tactics, bad selection, bad results. I see him as england manager after world cup.

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26 Feb 2014 01:40:52
Well certainly looks like RVP or Moyes will leave he gave an interview to a Dutch reporter saying United players run the channels he wants to, when asked if he knew what's wrong he replied I do but won't say

He isn't a happy bunny

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I am always wary (and everybody should be) of interviews translated from a different language. The press translate them how they want to in order to make a story. I have actually read a translation of the quotes that sound nowhere near as bad as the way people are making out.

Think it is plain to see from his performances that he is not 100% happy but wait until you hear him say something in English before we know for sure.

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More proof that the players are not happy with DM tactics.

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Well moyes tacktics rubbish but rvp throwing his toys out off the pram isn't going to help fergie retired deal with it or get out like we had before players aren't bigger than the club unless your wayne rooney

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26 Feb 2014 01:09:19
Liverpool fan here,

Haven't even came on here to gloat as I don't think there is any need when you have moyes in charge.

I watched the game tonight. Wow it was appalling. But what was worse is his team selection. When I saw the team I was shocked. That's most probably one of the easiest parts of being a manager but he picks two of the most uncreative midfielders in your team which resulted in Rooney having to play there.

Kagawa, fellani (he could play), and most importantly januzaj? That player is sheer quality and he won't play him?!

I slightly felt sorry for my Man U mate sitting there today with his head in his hands but then I realised it's united and I couldn't of hoped for moyes to do any worse ;)

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25 Feb 2014 23:54:04
Has moyes lost the dressing room?
I think he might of, I found the Carrick interview after the match a bit strange .
Didn't look happy looked like he was biting his tongue .

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The MU players are struggling mentally and are simply not dealing well with the change of manager.

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I don't think Moyes ever had the dressing room. I do not believe the player have confidence in the manager. SAF has left a huge hole. The players seem scared without SAF.

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And a lot of them aren't good enough simple as.
Back 4: evra vidic ferdy past it smalling not a rb
Midfield: Carrick to slow young cleverly not good enough

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Sure, we do need better players, no one is disputing that, but these players were much better last season under SAF. We won the league last season with these exact same players minus Fellaini, Mata, Adnan & a fit Rooney. This season under Moyes they are mid-table. What changed from May to August?. the manager. The players are struggling mentally.

You, me and others said that Moyes was not the right man for the job, I think many of the players think that too and thought that at the time of his appointment.

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Jred, couldn't agree more about your Carrick point. All the players were constantly dispossessed, but Carrick wasn't given a second on the ball and he usually needs 2-3 seconds to decide what to do. Cleverley, Rio, Evra, Smalling etc were all piss poor, but Carrick was found out last night and now all opposition midfield know how to deal with Carrick. If you stay on him and give him little time to act he panics and gives the ball away. You said that you hoped MU would buy two fast midfielders for example Herrera and Gundogan, and I couldn't agree more, but now we have bought Fellaini it's unlikely we will buy two midfielders this summer now. However the one midfielder we sign MUST be a quick busy player like Gundogan or Herrera to partner Fellaini.

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Syd
Who played really well last year?

Young, Valencia cleverly smalling evra Rooney vidic Ferdinand the list goes on where all poor last year,

A lot of the players where just as bad last year thankfully rvp was fully fit and scoring

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All of those players bar Rooney played much better last season.

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I would disagree, everybody on the site was moaning about everyone of them players last year.

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Ferdinand was probably our best CB last season. He played a lot of games. Everyone in the squad was playing better last season bar Rooney. You said yourself that Moyes has lost the dressing room. Well that is a mental issue, not a physical issue. Once a manager loses the dressing room, usually only a change in manager can resolve it. I just think MU players were not convinced by the Moyes appointment and even less so now. If we were any other club Moyes would be sacked this summer.

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25 Feb 2014 23:51:49
Ajh u slated me last July for saying moyes wasn't up for the job and that I wasn't a true fan. What's happened.

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Looked to me like its the players who aren't up to the job

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You can't see the difference between slating somebody before they have ever started a job and slating them after 7 months of mediocrity?

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GDS2

Because many of us could see this coming. He didn't have the experience for the job and one of the words I used last May was that his appointment was a disaster for our club. Even I am surprised how quickly the disaster has happened, I expected two years of not winning anything before the realisation hit everyone. Now it is plainly obvious he is tactically inept and last nights performance added to Carrick and RVP interviews, Rio's previous comment, Vidic leaving confirm what I thought weeks ago that he doesn't have the dressing room.
Sell 11 players and bring new ones in that will still be lost under the tactical ineptitude or deal with the real problem, it should be an easy choice if the Glazers are willing to lay him off? That may be the question will they stump up to pay him off and then admit the horrendous error?

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Major, I've never used the 'not a real fan' argument. 8 months in, things ae getting worse, not better. There is something clearly wrong in the dressing room. A team that won the league last year was knocked out of the league Cup by Sunderland, the FA cup by Swansea, has lost several games at OT against teams we would normally breeze past. Players that played well last year look uninterested.

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