Manchester United Banter Archive November 26 2011

26 Nov 2011 22:24:03
Why we have subs on bench if we don't use them? Just wondering

HolyUnited

26 Nov 2011 22:04:39
Right now that i got todays game outta the way i'll expand on what i think we need to do to improve.

When i look around the top teams in the world i notice that only us and Bayern play 442/4411 everyone else plays 433. The reason for this is 433 is more fluid and allows you to keep pocession of the ball better and as we all know pocession is 9/10th of the law. When Bayern play 442 the have two solid more defensive players in centre of midfield with two great wingers offering speed skill and goal threat going forward then they have Muller(who i rate as one of the best young players on the planet) dropping deep off of Gomez to dictate play. We don't have those defensive midfielders or a striker of Gomez' ability to score and hold the ball up to play this system. So i don't think this is the way we should play as Plan A, it's a good option as plan B but we should aim to play with more pocession and wingers by their trade will lose you the ball too often.

So what do we need to play this system. Well i think Carrick should be kept, people knock him but if you looked at the link i posted a week or so ago you might realise what a good player he is. The thing with Carrick is people don't get him, for me the player he's most like is Pirlo. He sits in the middle and uses his passing to dictate play, he's neither defensive or offensive. But for Pirlo to play at his best he needed someone to play infront of him to link the attack and someone behind him to clean up and protect the back four, In Pirlo's case he had Kaka and Gattuso. But who does Carrick have? Would Pirlo have worked as well in a two man midfield? course not so we can't expect Carrick to do so. We need someone to play the AM ans DM roles around Carrick.
If you look at Barca's midfield they to are set up like this although their players are much more attack minded. They have Xavi in the Pirlo role of dictating the play Iniesta playing in Kaka's place and Busquets playing Gattuso's role, the diferance is Xavi is more mobile than Pirlo ever was and Busquets has more to his game than Gattuso.
Long term we'll have Cleverley in the Pirlo role Morrison in the Kaka role and Pogba in the Gattuso role but we need a stop gap. Now For the short term if we play Carrick in the pirlo role and Cleverley in the Kaka role(he is more than able to play this more advanced position) then we are short a defensive midfielder, we could play Jones there for this season if we can't get who we need in January. But long term we could do with a couple of players who could come in and be competition in those roles. That leaves the front three, we could play Nani Rooney and Young but we need a new forward player who can play on the left of the front three but is able to fullfil any of the positions in the front three. This will put Rooney back where he's best and be like a new signing. Those who think Rooney can play in midfield are at least atm wrong, he looks for the blockbuster pass too often rather than doing whats needed and he doesn't have the finesse needed to play such a role. Maybe when he matures more as a player he could move there as he has all the attributes needed but not the head for it yet. But long term we need players who can play as forwards better than Nani and Young can. Welbeck could fulfill one of those roles but we need someone else as well.

So what do we need either Jan/summer depending when available. Well were obviously weak at LB so thats a given but i think we need two midfielders to play this system and a left forward. so thats four players personally it think we should go for:

Jordi Alba/Emilo Izaguirre
Jack Rodwell/Yann M'Vila
Marko Marin/Marvin Martin
Giuseppe Rossi/Brek Shea

Alba Rodwell Marin and Rossi being my first choices giving us a first team of:

__________DDG_________
Rafa__Smalling_Vidic__Alba
________Rodwell________
___Cleverley___Marin____
_Webeck__Rooney__Rossi_

With a second string of

________Lindegaard_________
Fabio__Jones_Ferdinand_Fryers
__________Pogba___________
_____Carrick_____Morrison___
__Nani___Hernandez__Young__

with player like Amos, Evans, Valencia, Fletcher, Tunnicliffe, Cole, Brady, Petrucci and Will Keane in and around the squad. We'd have a young strong and highly talented squad with lots of players from our academy blended with some great players we've bought in. Those players could be bought for around 70m-ish and Rodwell and Marin could be brought in in January and still play Champions league for us, Alba could sign a pre contractual agreement in jan and sign in the summer for free or we could pay a fee and bring him here in jan giving him 6 months to settle. But with player like Kusczcak Evra De Laet Gibson Anderson Park Drinkwater James Berbatov Macheda and Diouf all bringing us fees in and Giggs and Owen also leaving freeing up some wages then i think the net spend could be brought down to around 20-30m which is the amount the Glaziers promised to Sir Alex every year.

Shappy

26 Nov 2011 21:24:55
has anyone noticed rooney seems to be getting more and more frustrated of late, i think if we dont win atleast one cup this season, he may through his dummy out in summer and demand another transfer.

Henandez is also very poor any where outside the 6yard box, he may as well just sit in there for the entire game.
But seriously though, the partnership with rooney is one sided, designed to benefit chicha alone as he cannot create any real opportunities for rooney. Henandez needs to work on being more versatile by learning to dribble, shot from outside the 18yard box and linking up with fellow strikers.
If he cannot do this then we should bring in another striker that can e.g higuain, cavani, benzema, villa e.t.c
if he does not work on his overall game, i see welbeck being picked ahead of him for a good number of games.

26 Nov 2011 21:04:14
Right i always leave myself time to reflect on the match before i let my emotions run away with me and i say something daft that opon refection i would regret. I will do this in two posts so i don't ramble on to much;-). lol.

First off we played better today and i can see improvement in our play, we were unlucky in a few aspects but that does not mean we played well.
There is a long way to go if we want to challenge for the title this season but we appear to be heading in the right direction. Will we improve quick enough in order to challenge City? well we'll have to see, But this title race isn't over before Christmas and there will never be a season where it is so lets not get too depressed.
We created a few chances and at times it appeared that it was preordaned that we wouldn't win today(the penalty, the offside, great saves from Krul), for some reason it just wasn't gonna happen for us today. There were faults in our play and if we had abit of luck we'd have beaten a very good Newcastle team. I think there is alot of arrogance on here that we should be beating "midtable teams like newcastle" but point wise we've had our best start to the season in the league since 2007 and have only lost once then if you look at that "midtable" team we played against today you'll see they were only 4 points off us in third place so give them some credit for how well they are playing atm, then look at the fact that despite the fact that we didn't play well we were unlucky to only get a point and suddenly things don't look so bad. Just imagin what this squad could do if they were playing well......win the league? Champions league final? maybe i mean they did it last year. We seem to be hung up on what we haven't got and that were not good enough and by our standards i'd have to agree but this is a team with a track record of proven success. So lets see where we are come January and go from there cus we can't do anything until then anyway.

Shappy

26 Nov 2011 20:20:26
do you remember my post a few days back when I listed crucial phases in games going for you but none of you took notice

today was going to happen sooner or later (spurs and liverpool) are playing good football but you are not

this is what it feels like for other teams when decisions go for you

26 Nov 2011 19:42:23
we lack drive and quality in midfield andersson carrick giggs[due to age] gibson not good enuff
rodwell and elm two players who united have been linked with would provide that for 32m , bah cleverley young and nani were carrying the rest early on basle benfica sunderland newcastle liverpool the two galauti games and swansea united have average to poor its very worrying
with a few additions and cleverley and wellbeck we'll still be a force but i am beginning to worry hopefully lfc will do us a favour if not we might be too far behind when the team eventually finds form cjwales 82

26 Nov 2011 19:27:52
So this year man united payed 80 m to repay debts , paid 50 m interests for the PIKs and still managed to get over 30 m im profit . So in fact united made 160 m pounds in profit last year ? we really are a amoney making machine ! Anyhow if i understand correctly next years PIKs would be less than 40 m wich in theory would give us 15m more for transfers , add to this the 20 m the glazers promised us every year, and the 50 m left from christiano in our banks. So , in theory, we have 90 m to invest in the summer transfer window?
and at this rate how many years would it take us to repay those debts and become one of the richest clubs in the world alongside barca city and real?
btw how much are we still in debts ? i heard it was somewhere around 400 m ! {Ed002's Note - There are no PIKs. You seemingly don't understand the finances at all - the Bonds are due to be paid by 2017. Do you understand the debt the Spanish clubs have?

26 Nov 2011 19:23:47
"Surely we would get a better price for Gibson if he wasn't in "the shop window". If a prospective buyer sees him play his value is likely to drop!"

Super LOLS!

-TomBomb

26 Nov 2011 18:56:57
Get out of his arse herbie. Guess you don't watch alot of footy besty was good but messi c ronaldo rooney cantona gazza giggs

Ross
-------------------------
Are you serious?!?! Are you trying to wind us up? You think Rooney, Cantona, Gascoigne, Giggs or Ronaldo are better? Really? Maybe Messi, but come on. Ross, you must not be a United fan, and that would explain a lot. But, neither is Blair Mayne and he had the decency to come on here and admit that Georgie Best was one of the best ever. Do not be so stupid in future would ya?

G.A.G.U.S

26 Nov 2011 18:26:06
I don't know why Hernandez keeps coming deep for the ball. He was most effective last year constantly on the shoulder of the last defender looking to run in behind, surely that's his strength.

26 Nov 2011 18:09:59
Gibson is regularly outshined in the reserves by pogba,ravel and petrucci but he makes the bench,really dissapointed to c him named today,really doesnt make sense.
Ste73

26 Nov 2011 17:53:03
I really don't understand what all you lot are getting so upset about. So we haven't got any real quality on the bench to make a change. So we lack a world class play maker So we are struggling to score more than one goal. At least we are paying off the Glazers debts and making them richer. What do you want an owner who actually puts money into the club rather than bleeding it and someone who invests in the team no lets keep taking money out of the club and not re investing then when we eventually sell the club there is even more profit all paid for by the supporters. RAINFISHTROMBONE

26 Nov 2011 17:36:45
Maybe Hernandez is being asked to do too much on the pitch this season? Last year you'd rarely see him anywhere else but on the shoulder of the last defender. Today he moved out wide and dropped deep - even behind Carrick at one point - into midfield on several occasions. What's the point? He's not going to beat 3 or 4 players and he's not going to play a 40 yard pass either. What he does best is scoring goals but he can't do that if he's not in the right position.

Matthew...

26 Nov 2011 17:22:01
SAF getting aged.. forgeting to aplpy subs to game against benfica and newcastel today for worst game players like YOUNG.. so in all he subed in at last and got no effect from them.. when it was clearly visible that subs would have effect than cureent 11..

26 Nov 2011 17:15:26
here we go!! you cant blame the officials. yes it was a bad decision but we get em as much against for as as we do against us. dont moan about it thats why everyone hates us we moan our heads off when it happens to us. last year wen nani scored against spurs they didnt make a song n dance about it. weve got to improve and quickly. before the pen we sat back looked like a 1-0 win again. after it it cud have been 5-1 but it wernt. id like to say those ppl that were going on about nani on wednesday. yea ppl dont like him, but today show you why. i admit id sell him if someone offered 35mill. its not cos i dont like him! its because he is inconsistent. say what you like he did nothing today nor did young really til last 20. ppl on here blab on about him being brilliant hes far from it. we have all now gotta hope the scousers win tomoz! and hope that button clicks and fergie realises actually we need a midfielder. carricks wickedness soon wore off lets just say he had a amazing off day. yes we were good today no im not being negative at all. im saying what i think. united need to pick it up ppl will say newcastle wer lucky! that defending from them was awesome! they dont need to just watch city run away they need to worry about spurs catching them and tbh they prob will.

26 Nov 2011 17:07:45
What the f*ck was he thinking? That's one of the worst decisions of the season so far (and that's saying something). That's as bad as the Rodwell debacle. The linesman was the only person in the stadium who thought it was a penalty. The referee saw it as a fair challenge. As did Ben Arfa and the rest of the Newcastle team. Nothing we can do about it now but still, very strange..

Lets hope Suarez brings his shooting boots tomorrow!

Matthew...

26 Nov 2011 17:03:21
its about time football tool a leaf out ov rugbys book and introduced the video ref, to many poor descions from refs and linesmen!!

26 Nov 2011 16:59:16
All you need to know about today's performance is that we had over 15 minutes to beat a 10 man Newcastle side at home, and we had no one on the bench who Fergie felt could really make a difference. Pathetic performance, Rooney, Nani and Hernandez were all poor. Young had his absolute worst performance for us. Giggs is a spent force but we have no one else to play in centre mid. Evra made Obertan look dangerous.

No way to blame the penalty, our goal was just as lucky. Piss poor performance from a United team that isn't capable of winning the league, will barely qualify for the champions league second round, and Ferguson thinks that there is nobody available that could improve our squad.

Danny Pughnited

26 Nov 2011 16:55:54
told you you would draw today , oh cheer up, lpool will take care of you know who tomorrow, take it easy ............lfc

26 Nov 2011 16:55:28
wow, the ref was out to get us today...

rio got the ball and hernandez was onside...

26 Nov 2011 16:54:36
not sure what i'm more p'ssed off with ... the penalty decision or Ashley Young !

26 Nov 2011 16:52:27
That was painful, we could of had 4 if it was'nt for the post, offside and goal line clearance. It was better from UTD though.... HERBIE

26 Nov 2011 16:24:55
Absolutely ridiculous decision

26 Nov 2011 16:13:59
Its becoming more of an issue with each game the amount of chances we have spurned. We got the rub of the green to say the least with the goal, lets hope we bury another cause 1 is not enough.

JWalk

26 Nov 2011 14:42:22
My prediction, 2-1 home win today,hope it's more
U.P.

26 Nov 2011 14:23:32
Jones not in the squad today! Young and Fabio start

26 Nov 2011 13:15:43
Just a question, is it possible Fergie decided to try and hang on more year before signing a midfielder as he believes he will get less competition next summer due to financial fair play rules now in place? Or will the reality be that the financial fair play rules will turn out to be a wet blanket?!

Enigma

26 Nov 2011 12:29:19
I've read a couple of times on here now that people think our CM situation is worse than any of the other big 5 teams. I disagree.

Carrick - as we saw the other day, Carrick is hopefully moving back into his previous self, on a good day he is amazing. Has excellent passing ability, great vision, praise to the poster who showed us all the article on Carrick a few weeks ago, very true stuff. He's had a rough patch of form for a while now, but when he's on it I don't see why he's way worse than other teams CM's - In fact I think he's one of the better CM's in the league.

Fletcher - you couldn't ask anyone to give any more of themselves during every game. Sure he's a bit hit and miss, but he is (and I think Mick - even though slaughtered - was right saying this) the best all round midfielder in the league. He has more passion for his club, and sense in his head than you'll find in many other players in the world, let alone the BPL. In my opinion this is the perfect type of player to have.

Tom Cleverly - we all know what this lad can do, no point in going into it.

Anderson - Not so sure, but on a good day (or when partnered with Tommy at the beginning of the season) amazing. Arguably needs more time perhaps, or needs to be aloud to play in his natural position - but certainly no worse than Ramsey, Adam.

Giggs - Bit past it perhaps, or just dip of form? He played well all of last season, perhaps people are jumping the "past it" gun slightly and he's just running through a low patch. But he can pick out that pass still, and that's a great quality to have in your CM.

Park - engine, doesn't stop. Loses the ball but will always get it back. Same as Fletcher in regards to giving your all.



I would agree that at the moment Spurs and Man City's first 11 choice CM's are probably better than ours. But Chelsea? Mikel is rubbish, Meireless is also useless, Essian is obviously great but hugely injury prone, Ramieres is their only player I rate and he is massively form-affected like Carrick. So I don't think our CM situation is any worse than theirs.

Liverpool - I can't believe anyone would think that Cleverly, Fletcher and Carrick are not as good as Lucas, Adam and Gerrard? That's a joke..

Arsenal - Ramsey isn't there yet, so he's not better than our CM at the moment. Arteta will soon be past it, it's a shame for him that it was a bit longer than he would've liked before a move to a bigger club. Wilshire - great, but injury prone as hell. Can see him leaving the game at 27..

I just don't think it's quite as bad as everyone is making out. I'd love a couple extra options in there - and I think when we're ready to buy hopefully it's the first place they consider, but we're certainly not miles away from every other team like some of you are suggesting.

Sorry for the essay..

Joe

26 Nov 2011 11:35:23
even VDS says we need a new midfielder and that we need to change our playing style, so it's obvious the players/former-players know that our mids are s**t, so why doesn't SAF see this? and if he does see this why isn't he doing anything about it?

either the cash isn't there or SAF is doing what wenger did with the cb situation.

even arsenal have a better midfield than us now (cm)
arteta,wilshere,ramsey...so do spurs so does chelsea, man city, and liverpool are better when they have gerrard,adam and lucas fully fit.

26 Nov 2011 10:30:34
i'd quite like to see this today:

___________De Gea___________
Fabio_Smalling__Vidic__Evra
Nani___Jones___Fletcher_Young
___________Rooney___________
__________Berbatov__________

i've gone for Berba because IMO he can hold the ball up better than any of our other strikers, and also play that delicate pass around the edge of our box, we'll need someone in there who can win headers, because Newcastle aren't the smallest of teams.

26 Nov 2011 06:33:36
Newcastle beating man united today by 3-0
newcastle fan

26 Nov 2011 01:29:09
I think we should sign leandro damiao as he would add a different dimension to our attack...