Manchester United Banter Archive October 26 2013

26 Oct 2013 22:23:02
Haven't seen the game, was listening and cringing at 1-2 down. My first thought was if Moyes is a defensive manager he isn't very good at it. I cannot believe how poor we are defensively. I am not basing that on today but just generally. I would rather see a change of formation using
Jones Evans Vidic as a back 3 then either Rafael or Valencia on the right Carrick, Fellaini or Cleverly, Kagawa and januzaj in midfield with Rvp and Rooney up front. With subs of Ferdinand, Smalling at the back . Powell, Zaha, Anderson, Giggs amongst others in Midfield and Hernandez and Welbs it does not look so bad. Nani has been shocking for so long he needs to go!

Drawback is Jones and Evans looked like they had never met each other today that can't be blamed on Moyes that's just shyte play

How many people were saying this is the future CB's for our club after Wednesday? I'm panicking if that's the long term plan. It won't be.

I said wait until they play against decent opposition, Crouch & Walters my God, that wasn't what I expected as the decent opposition. I should have changed that to wait until they play somebody over 6ft 2 and a workhorse that should be in the championship.

The more I watch Jones the more I realise he is never going to be this World Class talent that we all hoped. He is too reckless (what a stupid freekick to give away), and seems a bit dim - a bit like Smalling. They both lack the air of authority/composure that Rio has or the strength & brain that Vidic has. Maybe that will come in time, but I think we have a couple of Skrytl's on our hands. People that will throw everything into a tackle, but that's because they are never in the correct position and don't know where they should be. How bad is Jones on the ball as well, his passing hasn't improved in 3 years?!

Evans is a good squad player and will always do a job, but can't be relied on against decent teams or Crouch & Walters combo, farcical.

The commentators were saying that Stoke couldn't buy a goal before the game. They didn't need to we were doing everything we could do to give them several.

First goal came from a guy just strolling through our midfield, it's becoming painfully obvious where our deficiencies lie, even for a Stoke.

MrSween Jones is still 21 and I am sure we can still hope that he'd be a better player in couple of years time. But yes I agree with you that these 'not so young anymore' defenders aren't smart and are sourcing the trouble for ourselves at times.

26 Oct 2013 20:09:31
So our last 3 league games have been 2 wins and a draw to a last minute equaliser. The performances are getting better, today I think the opposite to last week, moyes got the starting 11 wrong but his substitutions were spot on. He is clearly still learning but we are getting better.

Do people still think we might not get top 4? We don't have any divine right to finish anywhere in the league, but this team won the league last season, they are not going to finish 5th.

Enjoyed the game today, although I was in a bad way with 20 minutes to go, let's hope this is a turning point, unbeaten since the west brom game in all competitions, hope we can keep that going.

Gds
The performance today wasnt very good the back 4 had a mare and we still look light in cm and on the wings .
It could of been over at half time if stoke took there chances
Take the United glasses of and tell me at the moment are we playing like one of the best 4 teams in the league.

Gds2, we won today, but we were extremely fortunate. And I am more worried than ever about us. The way we are defending as a team is non existent. This comes from bad individual mistakes and bad tactics.
Moyes has had a few games to sort it out and we are not looking anywhere near sorting it out.
Motd tonight was depressing to watch, the errors and lack of tactics were ridiculous.
As for top 4, we have city, Chelsea, arsenal, spurs and Liverpool. All of these teams are looking much better than us.
Unless Moyes and co can come up with a formula to play more modern tactics, more pressing, more energy. Also playing kagawa in his correct position, and actually playing zaha. Then I can't see us anywhere near the top 4.

NM,

Are you actually serious, you can't see us anywhere near the top 4? So where exactly do you think we will be finishing this season?

Let me get this right, last week we drew with Southampton and we deserved it because we were rubbish, despite the fact we could and should have been 3 up, but the other way round this week when the opposition could have had a few and we are 'extremely fortunate'.? You just change your view in order to be as negative as possible, as that just proved.

Spurs who lost 3-0 at home to west ham are looking 'much better than us' are they?

We weren't great today, in fact I thought we were quite poor, it was after a champions league game and we managed to fight until the end, the players proved they are up for a fight, they were kicked from pillar to post by Stoke, foul after foul and they got up and managed to create two good goals. So let's give them some credit.

Gds2 which one are you avram or joel because only you can think things are getting better

Red fan,

After 6 games we had 7 points
After 9 games we have 14 points

Do I really need to explain that it's a fact things are getting better. Like I said, we were poor but we kept fighting and got the win, how many times did we come from behind last season and didn't hear too many complaining in May.

Also, what the hell does today's result have to do with the glazers?

Gds2. Do u honestly believe that we have played any good matches this season? We were lucky against palace and Sunderland. Got lucky yesterday, and were thrashed against city. And never looked like scoring against Liverpool and Chelsea. So I'm not changing my viees at all. We've been crap all season and all pre season.
As for top 4, spurs had a bad result v West ham but the table doesn't lie . assuming chelsea city and arsenal will occupy the top 3 spots, leaves us fighting with liverpool spurs and dare I say, everton and Southampton for 4th spot. I think we'll finish 5th.

We went 2-1 down against WBA and lost, we went 2-1 down against Stoke and showed much more spirit and quality. In what way is that not an improvement. We aren't going to become the best in the league again overnight.

As you say NM the table doesn't lie, we will be within 3 points of either Chelsea or city by the end of today with 29 games left. Considering we have had such a bad start and you think one of them will win the league, don't you think you are overreacting a little?

Arsenal have beaten one team in the top 10 all season and Liverpool haven't really been tested, after the next 10 games I think arsenal will be about 4th and we will be within 3 points of them if not ahead of them.

How can a team of players who don't even know how to finish out of the top 4 just suddenly finish 5th?

I will remember that post at the end of the season and as with Red_sky last season who made an equally daft prediction, make you eat humble pie.

Also no midfield,

First post you said you 'can't see us anywhere near the top 4' then you said 'we will finish 5th'. Can you clarify which of these you think is true please?

Guys, its time to start being honest with yourselves. United have been poor, very poor in fact. They have played badly in most games, the midfield and defence is non existent, and if it wasnt for the excellent partnership of Rooney and RVP, you would be lying near the bottom of the table.
You can't gloss over the fact that something serious has happened at United. For the first time I can remember, we saw united fans booing one of your own players. What this shows is that something is not right, so to pretend that everything is rosy seems a little strange to me guys? United are no longer considered to be an automatic 4th place contender, which considering Fergies reign, seems almost unreal, but nevertheless true.
Teams are no longer afraid of coming to OT, they are actually relishing the chance to beat you in your own back yard.
Im an LFC supporter guys as you know, but like it or not, there is some truth in what i'm saying.

Tel 1949 - You are giving us a bit too much credit with the Rooney RVP partnership. If RVP hadn't scored a couple of tap ins in recent weeks I wouldn't have known he was playing this season since the Swansea game.

GDS

We won 2 games out of the last 4, all of them against "smallers teams" and we played at home. All of the games, for a team like us, we would've won them a bit more easy than we did(we played at Home). We had to win all of them. I

Cont.

The fact that we won our games doesn't that the opposition will suddenly start playing badly. Right now we're our biggest threat.

There's only two ways on your predictions, you may either be right or wrong by may, but they're just Predictions.

26 Oct 2013 19:23:50
Lol, so apparently Cleverley is not the answer.

Unless the question is 'who passes the most balls sideways in order to make his passing accuracy stats look better?'

I know. I was just surprised after the last 2 games when people were suggesting we we missing good old Tom. I think the issues we have are more to do with formation and approach. When we went for it we looked a different team. We need to stop worrying about losing and just go for the win. You score 3, we'll score 4 and all that

Indeed AJH! He's not. No, he's not. Not at all.

You boys can criticize Cleverley all you like but, at a time when we can't even keep possession, I will take Cleverley's sideways passes. You may not like it and he may not excite you but, at the moment, he is our most reliable bet in midfield alongside Carrick.

26 Oct 2013 18:47:37
so the nasty sir alex, said he never rated stevie g, lol, I recall an interview with him years back, when asked who would he like to really sign, he said steve, but offcourse that would never happen between the clubs, its impossible, he went on to say . maybe due to old age, he gets confused .
ps, good comeback today utd, but you will have to play a lot better, if you want to finish 25 points ahead of liverpool, as some utd fans have said you will on this page, he he.

Lfc
He didn't say he didn't rate him, otherwise why give him a trial as a kid, what he said was he wasn't a top international? Which we could argue as England hasn't produced a truly world class player for years. Whether they play for Utd or lfc or anyone for that matter. I personally don't think any English player would make a current world 11.

Come on tucker, SAF is a tad confused. Much as I dislike him Gerard is a top player and I'm not sure what SAF was banging on about. The same with Lampard who is also a top pro and a fabulous player

In fact, Ferguson has managed to peeve off most people including ex united players. He disgracefully belittled Gerrard, he mocked Liverpool. He even had a go at Henderson. Result, scousers went out and played wba off the pitch. Thanks Ferguson, our job is already hard enough without winding up most of our opponents.
For me, Ferguson has been totally out of order with his stupid crtisisms. Yes, it will make him a lot of money, but it has not done United or our reputation much good.

Careful NM, according to Moon, criticisms like this make you a girl.

Yeah NM, because without Fergie's book, Liverpool would probably have lost yesterday.

I hear it's also responsible for drought in Africa, and war in the Middle East.

Catch a grip would you. It's a book, not the bloody Ark of The Covenant.

And how dare he mock Liverpool!

StevieK

26 Oct 2013 17:44:20
Amazing how an 18 year old has a better football brain that Nani. Smalling is not a right back and has moments of a complete lack of concentration.

26 Oct 2013 14:38:53
You have got to laugh, £30m spent on Fellaini in the summer and we are back to a Carrick/Cleverley midfield partnership ;)

Or cry

Why hasn't Adnan replaced Nani yet?

Almost everything Nani has done thus far has been the wrong decision.

You have to laugh the whole team apart fron De Gea.

Jesus wept were looking like relegation fodder lol. Think mid table respectability looks a distant dream at the mo.

Time for Moyes to earn his coin at half time.

Does Fergies book have a chapter on why he picked Moyes? I imagine that's a short sentence!

We always knew post Fergie era could be dodgy but not THIS dodgy this quickly.

Should EASILY be alb to turn current deficit into a victory. Some very BIG questions to be asked of Moyes if we can't.

Come on United.

If there was EVER a time to use Fellaini or Jones in midfield, it was in a Stoke game. Rafael at RB, Smalling/Evans as CB's and Adnan for Nani. This is easy stuff IMO.

Nani and smalling have been woeful.

But then even Evans has looked clueless.

Moyes is correct in that we need another defender!

Nozzla, Smalling is a CB being played at RB. You have to ask why when we have Rafael?

Biggest goal scoring threat is playing in midfield. brilliant

Really don't see what fellani would if added today

Fellaini has his uses, for a lesser fee he would of been a perfect signing. What we really need though is an upgrade on Cleverly but a player who is in that mold . e.g. Gundogan, Herrera or Marchisio.

Or Moutinho who would be my main target.

I think 99% of MU fans would opt for Gundogan.

26 Oct 2013 13:06:50
Who has seen much of Henriquez? Is he capable of being a replacement for Hernandez just yet? Hernandez I think doesn't look happy and needs to leave to further his career. To trim the squad and promote as much youth as we can is the priority. I don't think we need to splash out on a forward or winger if Januzaj and Kagawa perform with Nani and Valencia as back up. If we did want a winger then signing like Konoplyanka would be great. Personally I hope we splash out on two players: Baines and Gundogan ideally.

From what I've seen, which isn't a lot and some people with have seen far more than me, he doesn't seem like he's going to make it at United.

IMO, we don't need to replace Hernandez, just have Rooney, RVP and *Sigh* Welbeck and utilize Kagawa behind the striker more.

Why is he not expected to make it? I was under the impression he had some very good attributes and was a very good finisher.

I expect him to make it tbh got all the attributes to be a quality player scored a couple of goals already this season and put in some good performances.

Do see another loan spell possibly at a premier league club first someone like Swansea would be good for him

Could Will Keane or Jesse Lingard replace Chicharito?

26 Oct 2013 10:12:27
Morning. What do people make of the rvp not happy rumours. I said sometime ago that van gaal was clear in saying that rvp is not happy with the new regime at united.
Rooney is going out of his way to praise Moyes at every given opportunity. And the same rooney had his nose pushed out last season by rvp's arrival. So is this his way of payback to rvp?
Time for rvp to respond in the best possible way, knuckle down and start scoring the goals!

I don't think it will be the last story we see. It seems we a fair game right now given our travails. As you say, the best way to shut everyone up is for the players to concentrate on their business on the pitch and start putting teams to the sword. As for RVP, it could be a throwaway comment that is being blown up, or not of course.

I don't think he's happy, and in a way, I can't blame him. Yes, he won the title for the first time in his first season at OT. but what has he seen since?

The greatest manager of all time leaves, with Moyes being an unambitious replacement in terms of name-value and success.

Complete overhaul of the backroom staff.

Embarassing transfer window.

Negative football being played.

Personally, I think he's still got a place in his heart for Arsenal (who wouldn't, he was there for ages) and is looking at them wondering if he should have given it one more season.

I Don't think he's "Unhappy".

I think he's just a little confused and frustrated with his performances and the performances of those around him.

I think its pretty obvious that RVP signed for United mainly because of SAF.

so he worked with him for one year, we get a new manager, a new style of play and he isn't playing well, even when he's had chances he hasn't put them away like he should.

There could also be something going on behind the scenes in terms of new policies being introduced, etc.

I think we're reading to much into right now though. Like I said I think he's off form and its frustrating him and making him unhappy.

I think he loved Rene as well, so that may have a lot to do with it.

Playing upfront for us must be a tedious experience at the minute, especially with Rooney hogging the limelight (and all the players looking at Rooney when they get the ball).

They both start today, so let's hope it clicks.

26 Oct 2013 00:23:02
I decided to treat myself this evening and watched the 2008 UCL final, from start to finish, every little detail from pre match build up to post match reaction.

What a special team and a special game that really was.

A lot has changed in playing style, personnel, etc. since then. and it got me thinking, when was the first time United started playing this boring brand of football, at what point did the game plan switch to expansive counter attacking football, to sideways passing.

After a fair bit of thought the only real conclusion I came to was the 3-1 spanking by Barcelona. Before that we were playing nice football with a very similar set of players to the current crop, but the season after that game we started playing this dull brand of football.

Now, I'm not sure whether every manager in the land saw Barcelona and decided to play high pressure football or whether the loss took the fear out of United.

I believe it was the latter.

Something about that game, and the way United came back the following season implied a lack of confidence, no real urgency, almost a sign of giving up.

Whatever happened at Wembley that night, for me it was the end of an Era, the end of a truly beautiful era in the way we played.

Thoughts guys? {Ed007's Note - The Mrs time of the month is it Moon?}

Its always her time of the Month bond, or at least that's what I here whenever I think we should have an 'early night' haha. {Ed007's Note - I really can't blame her, the poor girl probably self-Rohypnols to get throughy a night of passion with you. I once got my Rohynol and Viagra mixed up. I swallowed two tablets, filled the rubber glove with lentils, stuck on a bit of 'adult entertainment and' cracked open a beer while I had the yacht to myself. The next thing I knew was Ed002 and her harem of gaggling MILFs standing over me with their phones pointing at me and saying something about Flipper's blowhole!! I've never quits been the same man since that night.}

Moon

We came back the following season and won 3-0 vs Spurs, 8-2 vs Arsenal and 5-0 vs Bolton in the first 5 games. Our current style of play has nothing to with that defeat. Tbh it started after Ronaldo was sold. We brought in a more functional winger in Valencia plus the midfield was slow and our played slowed down because of that. We haven't played great football for a good few years now.

I also think the loss of Carlos Queiros affected us considerably. He was the tactical brain behind Ferguson. Since Mr. Phelan has been there, the tactics went of the window.
Rene is good but non were in the same class as queiros. {Ed002's Note - Queiros was also responsible for a number of policy changes such as the need for players to report to the ground at 7:00Pm the night before matches so they could all stay together and prepare.}

We got obsessed by "possession football". Most annoying brand of football ever - let the opponents get their shape back rather than risk losing the ball when taking your man on. And whatever you do, don't take your fullback on on the outside and put a decent cross in!

GAGUS, We played a Spurs side which was okay but not great. then we played an incredibly poor and lethargic Arsenal team and a VERY poor Bolton side.

IMO, it is down to the UCL loss, I think DB could be on the money here!

We do try to move the Ball like Barcelona, the difference is our version is incredibly slow and instead of intelligent throughballs we're playing it 30 yards behind us to Vidic to then pass to Evra and then back to the middle.

26 Oct 2013 23:13:42
I didn't know that. Thanks for the info Ed02. Queroz also helped a number of players settle in quickly imo and we improved massively, especially in Europe when he was here, the speed and intensity of play was terrific.