Use our rumours form to send us manchester united transfer rumours.
27 Mar 2014 23:20:02
Maybe there is something in this
Qatari/Beckham bid .I think the
Glazers would sell at 1.6 bill a nice
profit for them and we get a total
Man utd fan in at the top plus no
one has a bigger pull than brand
Beckham- I hope its true
It's a load of rubbish, Beckhams team is going to be in Miami
27 Mar 2014 19:23:17
I keep reading the posts on here, and running all the nightmares of this season through my head and thought i'd make a couple of points. Firstly the Everton under Moyes or Martinez debate. , I think they may be playing slightly better football this season, but they have 2 new midfielders, a top striker in Lukaku and the blossoming Coleman and Barkley. So to compare is a little unfair. Moyes took Everton to where they are and I doubt Martinez will take them any higher. Moyes 's Everton beat City last season, something we have struggled with, so tactically he can get results. Despite my heart saying sack him, my more logical mind thinks give him until Christmas. This is because, as I've said before, we have an extremely slow midfield and defence, which I ultimately think is our problem, probably having a bearing on Moyes tactics. I will give him this summer to buy 2 good midfielders hopefully the like of Kroos and Carvallho, a decent centre half and a left back. With these additions I believe we would see better football and the return to the top 3. If he does buy the players but we are still poor then sack him and the new manager will inherit a great squad, but I do believe he needs a chance with a younger pacier team. All that said if we get the expected lesson in football by Bayern my heart will be shouting sack him again. Its a painful season but it will soon be over and the hope for next year can begin.
I had more or less written this season off when we signed only Fellaini last summer. To be honest I thought we'd be fighting with Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool for 4th. This decline wasn't an epiphany to me I'd posted last February 2013 we needed 6-8 new players over the next 2 seasons minimum.
AJH I agree with the positions you mention but think we need a pacey AM/winger too that's 5 players.
Nobody, outwith the top brass at United, knows who was responsible for the absolute debacle that was our last years transfer window. I think we'd all agree that if, Thiago (we never tried according to him) Strootman (again we never tried) Garay (ditto) and the inexcusable late attempt to register Coentrau, had all been handled properly we'd have had a far stronger team today.
Again I'll reiterate the players we are linked with, the players Ed002 says we are interested in are mostly world class and would improve almost any team.
Grund, by the same token ed002 has said that we are unlikely to sign many of the world class players we have been linked with. Kroos, Vidal, Cavani and Reus, for example, are all players we have looked at but are unlikely to secure in the summer. In the same way that we were linked to Cesc, Bale and Ronaldo last summer but ended up with Fellaini, we can chase as many world class players as we like, but there is no guarantee that we will sign any of them.
At the moment our most likely midfield signing is Carvalho and our most likely defensive signing is Garary. So that's a young player who has looked good in Portugal but unproven at a top level (could go Ronaldo or Nani) and a defender we should have signed last summer. The point is that any world class player who is available for transfer will be courted by other top teams. Do you see the likes of Kroos choosing us over Barca if the money on offer is comparable?
Danny that holds true whoever is our manager.
Vidal (the best)was quoted again yesterday as saying he is happy at Juve and more importantly his family are happy. Cavani and Reus seem very unlikely to me. Kroos and Bayern however seen to be painting each other into corners. Talks at the moment have broken down. Kroos has said he will wait till the summer. The last statement I saw attributed to Bayern was their best offer was on the table. Obviously if he does move we will not be alone in chasing him.
Gundogan however, I keep reading reports from media sources, whoever the F they are, we are confident of signing, seems possible. Though today I'm reading Dortmund are trying to get him to extend his contract. This at least suggests he's nearing recovery.
Carvalho (hardly seen him play) is a DM and in my, limited, experience much less likely to blow hot and cold than a Flair player. Garay would be a good addition.
Shaw I find intriguing, myhead says no chance, but with the continuous reports surely we must be getting some encouragement? though I said that about Cesc last year. Still Coentrau is available as is, my choice Alex Sandro, so I'm sure we will improve at LB.
Hopefully we can also sign a top winger/AM with real pace and skill. I'd like Griezmann but if PSG do go for him that's where he'll go. Rodriguez at Monaco is a great player but good luck getting him to move. Actually if ED002 wasn't so lazy er oops not lazy I meant busy, yes that's it busy we might get a list of our forward targets.
So if I leave aside those I'm pretty sure we will not get. Shaw or Sandro, Garay, Carvalho with Kroos or Gundogan and Griezmann would be an ideal window. Worst case scenario imo is a summer of Carvalho, Garay and Coentrau certainly not ideal but an improvement.
{Ed002's Note - I think the midfield and defence will be the main priority.
Outbound: It is no secret that Inter want Kagawa, that Evra will be leaving, that Ferdinand's time may be up, that Vidic will leave and that Spurs, Roma and Valencia will be interested in Hernandez if he becomes available. Rafael may well also leave.
Inbound: At right back the club are looking at Santiago Arias and Seamus Coleman. Centre back, ideally Mangala and either Ginter or Hinteregger would be the first choice centre backs but don't rule out Manchester United showing an interest in Aymeric Laporte or looking to Astori as an experienced option. Midfield, Carvalho remains a midfield target and I understand a deal can be done, although the club would ideally like Vidal. Gundogan, if available, might be seen as too much of a risk. There is interest in Kroos but Bayern Munich would like a new deal and Barcelona are also showing interest. At left back, Shaw is of interest but the price being asked might well make the club to look at other options such as Valencia's Bernat or again at Coentrau or Yuto Nagatomo. Wildcard: Ricardo Centurian, but a work permit may be an issue.}
I would like us to go English, Shaw lallana and Barkley all young as well.
And then 2 overseas players Cb and cm
I think we will see at least a couple of players coming in that no one expected. I believe 5 or 6 players are on the cards but no where near from being finished.
Thanks again ED002 and thanks for taking my BUSY line as a joke as was the intent
{Ed002's Note - No problem.}
27 Mar 2014 18:58:38
REDFAITH
I saw your post and all the replies and you have stimulated some discussion. You raise some very valid points but there is a danger here that different things get mashed together and therefore people form views on the combined issues as opposed to looking at them in isolation. Granted this is hard to do but in this case I believe it merits attention.
So, accepting that it is an ageing squad, let's consider why SAf was given time. He inherited. An underperforming team that was in trouble, that had never won a title. He arrived having broken the Glasgow domination and having won domestic trophies and a European trophy. Fast forward to today, and we can see that the mistake was in the original appointment. We appointed a manager who has never so a trophy, plays negative football! and has very little European experience. So having possibly made a poor appointment, let's look at the season so far. Worsening performances, 10 losses, 6 at home, poor football, dressing room whispers, worrying press conferences, odd tactics and team selection. There has been nothing this year that suggests we have made a good choice. Indeed the opposite is true as results have got worse and worse. Take a step back and consider how you would have felt at the start of the season if today's picture has been painted for you. Posters I have a lot of time and respect for disagree with me and still defend DM but I have moved to the dark side. It was a misjudged appointment by SAF for reasons known only to him. There was no rational reason for appointing DM and he has done nothing at all to suggest otherwise. I am embarrassed listening to him and shudder that we might let him spend our transfer reserves. Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and say 'we got it wrong' and I believe this is what will happen
AJH
I agree with you on 2 things you have moved to the dark side :) and DM needs some media training LOl
However I would think the pressure of what is going on must be unbelievable and when under that kind of pressure the human mind is not a machine and does some weird things. This was always going to be job like no other when you think about who he was replacing and what he has been given as a team.
This was going to be a "job like like no other", so why did they appoint someone who did not have the requisite experience for the role, that didn't meet with David Gills description of the man required? There is a reason he is out of his depth and it is because the role is beyond him and no list of sentimental reasons will give him what he doesn't have.
Red Man
They selected him because he is the appropriate candidate in the eyes gill, fergusen, charlton and the owners. Your view of what was the right candidate and wrong candidate obviously has no backing within the club. Take it up with them and see what they have to say.
I don't like the fact that we paid 15 million for Zaha or 7 for Bebe or 17 for young or 26 for anderson but I get on with life and don't harp about it everyday. I recommend you do the same.
GCU,
I'm sure Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson, Bebe (the list goes on) all seemed like "appropriate candidates" for their respective roles but the fact of the matter is SAF was known to get it wrong from time to time, and, on this occasion, he has got it horrendously wrong.
Hearing Bobby Charlton's recent public support for Moyes in the media, was, for me, a worst case scenario. We are stuck with Moyes now, I'd like to think we've already bit rock bottom, but I think Moyes can take us to hidden depths.
Just to set the record straight, I have no dislike for Moyes, his stats are comparable to Everton last season. As Syd so eloquently put it, "you can't blame a dog for being a dog".
Redman I have to agree with you, GCU I think you will find in the coming weeks that there is backing for the removal of moyes from within the club, this cannot be allwoed to go on, its not his fault the job is beyond him, but it definately is, IF villa beat us saturday AND that banner flies it could happen sooner rather than later, giving mata to moyes is like giving an iphone to your gran as some put it, we need a manager who is going to get the best out of all the players not suck the life and confidence out of them.
In 1988 Jim Leighton was the right goalkeeper in the eyes of the then Alex Ferguson.
After a mess in the FA Cup in 1990 Ferguson made a tough decision to drop Leighton for the final replay and in came Les Sealey, he did it because it was the right thing to do for the club. He thought Leighton was the right man but found otherwise, it happens and it is as clear now as it was with Leighton back then. Decent honest good man, but tough decisions have to be made
Rumple
I guess oversimplification is the only way you can argue your case and comparing Moyes with Djemba, Djemba really end any meaningful discussion one can have.
I think you are grossly mistaken by your views that they are all incompetent ( the board and owners)and average fans like us knows better.
Its like formations, everyone is an expert on the fact that we played the wrong formation after a loss and all other formations that would have yielded a result.
Red Man
Your references to past history are good for scaring kids.
In 2001 Ancelloti was viewed as a negative manager and of his depth and sacked by Juventus. In 2002 in his first year at AC Milan the owner almost sacked him again. 12 years later he has won everything there is that you can win.
It starts with having good/great players and we don't have many, evident by our inability to move dead wood on season after season. When we do move them on it is embarrassing what we get when considering what we paid for them.
{Ed002's Note - It is a great pity that you have so little respect for the Manchester United players that you consider them "dead wood".}
Ed002
They are deadwood and being paid large wages to perform at the highest level for one the biggest clubs around. When some have consistently not performed, no other way to describe them.
We can always send them across to Chelsea if you like:)
{Ed002's Note - I find it embarrassing that there are "fans" like you to be honest.}
Well that breaks my heart that I did not pass your fan test and I do not have your stamp of approval.
@Ed002
I agree that the word deadwood is wrong.
But I think what some of us are trying to say is that this is an aging squad, with quite a few of the players having their "peak" form long gone and needs to be rebuilt to get us back to the quality we saw from 2006-2009.
There will be a lot of "churning" of players in the next few windows. I would like to think that everyone here has immense respect for the likes of Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Giggs, Fletcher and to the service they have given to the club, but perhaps the blame should be on the people who did not phase them out earlier.
I can't believe Shahram 'STILL' keeps saying Zaha cost £15m, when he knows full well that it was £10m.
27 Mar 2014 18:56:33
banter please eds.
Carloto accountable for what? in more than a few minds the process of change has just begun. not all of us are losing patience so early. not to be condescending when will the fans be accountable?
the unbelievable pressure that Moyes is under. I have never ever seen in all my days of loving football. I'm not about to dump on him too. unwavering support till he jumps ship or is pushed. putting faith and trust with total sincerity because it produces the best results and I can do that by studying Moyes past to the subtle detail and my trust in those who believe in him, the culture of negativity will filter down to the players.
fans getting upset don't make them justified in their behaviour. this club is not in ruin. not even close. to me it's coming across as spoilt and is having an absolute detrimental effect on the club.
although I can really understand the worry this is not how I wish to approach a testing time.to undermine the manager as much as possible.this is new for all of us and we need to grow up and handle this before we become merry go round managers.
to put this into context we support a club that is mentioned in the same breath as the top top clubs of the whole world of thousands of clubs we could support. how lucky we have been. I would have told the guy who launched himself at Moyes to sit down and shut up. he's our manager. get behind him in the context of the bigger picture. a club and it's players run on the deepest and most unique of levels NO club in the world would have experienced quite like it by having Sir Alex and the way he ran the club. this is a massive massive change.
the negativity is going to ruin our club and I know where I'll be pointing fingers. there's no harm in a relaxed approach. but to be fair. even the most patient people have a cut off point. one more season maximum for me. I'm not sure if he will come through. but I think he has it in him.
essay over. that'll do for a few months.
27 Mar 2014 18:35:14
Fresh! That might make some sort of sense if the same
people owned the club. In spite of what you think about
Manchester United it is not an entity in it's own right where the same behaviour will pass down through the generations. The Glazers will sack or not sack depending on their own thoughts without any regard to what has gone before
I know, just dispelling the myth that historically we aren't a sacking club.
27 Mar 2014 18:16:38
please put in Banter eds. Bettyswallocks. I totally one hundred per cent mean what I say. like Brazil. the four up front have been given more lisence to roam than in our previous years. it will become more evident once the back four are stable and thre midfield is solid we will see more games like west ham and leverkusen and olympiakos. I gaurentee you that.
in my opinion Moyes adopted a style needed to keep Everton up. once sonethhing is working you don't want to to mess with it. Martinez has a different focus because of his playing career. but Moyes isn't daft. he will know what football we want and I know he wants it too. pelligrini was my first choice because the man likes his goals and gets them. but saying that Moyes is a huge fan of watching as many games as possible. he went out of his way to be understand the tactics and methods of many clubs. to think he doesn't have a utopion vision is madness. and to say Moyes is overly cautious. whenever we were in trouble Alex always went back to basics. defend well get the shape right. that's all Moyes is doing. stopping the club going into freefall further.
the doubts of the fans and the players don't make a truth that Moyes is incompetent. it only means the vision isn't realised by them or us yet. I hope he doesn't fold and sticks with this. I know his type and he won't give up easy. kudos to redfaith and his posts today. Any Everton fan glad to see Moyes gone is extremely ungrateful. and thanks to Sir Alex I've seen us beat Juventus Roma Bayern Madrid Barcelona Ac Milan and several other great clubs I've seen great players we have been absolutely blessed to see and much work was done on a personal level by Alex to secure certain signings.
it would never occur to me to blame him. if he didn't replace the midfield there would have been a bloody good reason. Man city psg Chelsea real Barcelona. the players we need have to be the very best and they are spread thin. we are not top dog in the british market anymore and I suspect Sir Alex was restrained a little to allow money for a new manager to build his own team.
I pay a lot of money to sit and watch every utd home game and unfortunately I've yet to see this moyes vision you just mentioned.all I've seen is boring slow, negative tactics that most people are struggling to get there head round .just because fergie stayed for 25 years it doesn't set a precident that we can't sack managers early if there not delivering on the playing front.all the elite sides in europe change managers/coaches on a regular basis wether there successful or not, that is the norm in world football.managers staying at 1 club as long as fergie and wenger will never be seen again.it doesn't matter what proffesion your in if your not good enough your gone
Saying moyes adopted an approach that worked then stuck by it because it kept tgem up is pretty much calling the guy a coward, too scared to try a different way, which I do not believe is anywhere near the truth, I just believe moyes is one dimensional and not world class, he never will be, nuce guy yes, mufc manager not even close my friend, we can support the team and club but not support the choice in manager, it doesn't make the fans any less a utd fan, was it right for the fans to demand sexton out, YES, it led to better days and better football, its our club and if we don't like the footie on show we can call the manager out on it, get off your high horse if you were paying to watch this dross you would have a different view I think. enough damage has been done he has no vision at all, he proved that in 11 years at everton playing exactly the same way, but that's what we hired, time to pull off the plaster and not be all PC about it, we have sacked plenty of managers and I believe a bad resultAGAIN tomoz and the plane and it is curtains.
27 Mar 2014 17:57:11
When you look at the past we are actually are a sacking club, after Sir Matt the next 4 managers were sacked, Frank O'Farrell only lasted a season. The myth that we don't sack is clearly false, although it is fair to say that managers in general are given two or three years here. Reports though suggest that we are looking at replacements for him for the end of the season - Louis van Gaal keeps popping up, along with Frank de Boer.
Only time will tell.
I think we are waiting for Bayern's game and then final decision will take place. I don't like to get a manager for a short term.
Fresh, ideally we should target Jurgen Klop first and if declines it then Frank de Boer is a very good choice for a long term.
Van Gaal is not suitable in my opinion
I think the plan would be de Boer to work with van Gaal then take over fully.
27 Mar 2014 16:28:21
Can any of the eds shed some light on the takeover rumours?
{Ed002's Note - I wouldn't hold your breath.}
Not sure if it's a shame or not. Glazers (apparently) are happy to invest this summer, but as previously discussed, our starting 11 against City was more expensive, so can't see how throwing money at it will make much of a difference 😒
Al92, are they including Rio etc in that as he was hugely expensive but is way past it now, so that's not going to give a fair comparison of the teams is it?
I don't think you should count how much someone cost, look at Rio he cost £30 million 11 years ago but he's worth 65 pence now.
Good point, but when you think Silva was 25 & Fellaini was 28 or so it makes you wonder how desperate we were in the summer. How do we know it's not going to be different this summer?
How many games has Silva played for city though in comparison? not saying Fellaini is as good as Silva as he isn't, but I think Fellaini will be a much better player for us this time next year when he has been allowed to settle and had more game time etc.
AI92
Every manager has their share of good, great, average and bad buys.
Fellaini is a good player and people here are just picking on him because he was a David Moyes buy and ex everton player. He gets slagged for a misplaced pass or tackle as a means to criticise moyes some more for buying him.
Jones had a horrible game against city but he is darling with many and will not get the abuse that fellaini gets.
I can list some of the players fergie bought in the last 5 or 6 years and it does not make for great reading.
Ignore the noise, if we have money I trust moyes will bring in very good players and in some ways trust him more than fergie.
I said this a few weeks ago, if he does not win and shows major improvements by christmas this year, the next managers job will be much easier given he will be will be left with a pretty good list of players that DM has brought in and cleaned up quite a lot of what needed to go.
People are not picking on him because he is a moyes player . He bought mata and most people like him and think he is a good player. There are dissatisfied with Fellaini because he just is not good enough . He actually looks worse when watching him at the game rather than on TV because you can how utterly immobile he is. You should try it.
The give him cash and leave him until November or Christmas argument again. So, having let him spend all our reserves in summer, with Fellaini as an example of his thinking, we get to Christmas and have to look mid season for a new manager which means we wouldn't get a top one, leaving us an interim to the end of the season and another season would be a write off. Would a top manager fancy the job if the cash has been spent on players the new manager doesn't fancy and where we may no longer seen as a top side in summer 2015?
At Christmas there may be improvement and the apologists would be saying give him until summer, in summer until the next Christmas. David Moyes has no winning pedigree and there is no guarantee he will get it with us. Give him more time is what they said about, McGuiness, OFarrell, and particularly Sexton. Years, barren years and we let it happen and now are waltzing into it again.
Can I just ask, is this the same fellaini that destroyed us last season that your on about? because I was one saying god I wish he was playing for us and not against us. Give him time he will prove people wrong and prove to be a good ( not great I doubt ) player. We can't blame him for the price we paid. But i'm sure he will be a solid player that gives us another option. If we was playing better with pace out wide and delivering good balls into dangerous areas this guy would produce the and could easy get double figures in a season. Have faith pancho
Pancho, fellaini was rubbish when everton paid 15mil, he was clumsy but after 2 years he was problaby our best player, uv got 2 give him time to settle
Pancho
He is our best midfielder with Carrick. Fans are fickle as some here criticised us for not going after ozil for 40 million now the same guys think he his rubbish and a waste of money.
The guy has played a handful of games for us in the worse period we have had in the last 20 years. I think he is a good player and will settle in and for every bad game he has he will have many good ones.
Kagawa is very mobile but how many good games has he had since joining us may I ask?
GCU
Like have said if he turns out to be a good player I will be happy but in my opinion I don't think he is or going to be. I didn't think he was any good at Everton and I agree with you about Kagawa . A lot of people may say he has not been given a chance either but from what I have seen he looks like he thinks each game is a training session where it doesn't matter about flicking the ball to no one However at times he has looked ok . Fellaini just looks crap. He wouldn't have nearly got himself the other night he could just trap the bloody ball.
Fellaini's biggest asset and I include the games in the previous season where he caused us problems (and I watched that live at OT) was that he could take a long high ball put into the corner of the box extremely well on his chest and bring other players into the game. If we keep Moyes long enough maybe we will see that tactic again and Fellaini will again be a dangerous opponent.
If you read my post again you'll see I did not slate Fellaini as a player. As the majority of you have said, he's a decent player & will improve, but at £30mil I can't & probably will never justify that price tag. When you think players like Kroos is supposedly available at £24mil. What I'm saying is yes Moyes will have money, as he has done so far it seems, but he doesn't seem to be using it as well as I think other managers may have. Hard to compare, given he was given next to nothing to spend at Everton, but has he learnt or will he just be cash happy thinking it'll work.
Yeah I saw him at OT and at Everton at the games against but I still wish I was watching him play for Everton instead of us!
27 Mar 2014 14:55:25
Redfaith what Martinez has done for Everton if nothing else as you may well say is provide masses of confidence, self belief and the freedom for the players to express themselves all of which you do not have currently under Moyes
A lot of the players at Everton are coming into the prime of their careers with no or very little success so far, they're going to be very hungry for it regardless of what a manager has to say. Moyes' main players have won a lot of trophies, in their older ages and past their prime how much harder is it going to be to motivate them? Regardless of what tactics you try play if the players mentally aren't up for it what chance do you have?
Ozwald you are clearly new to supporting united so may I suggest you look at the career of a player called Ryan Giggs who dispite winning trophies continued to have that hunger for further success, the DNA blueprint install by SAF at the club you now followy
@Baz29
You have completely failed to comprehend my post.
Martinez has indeed brought a different approach. What I am saying is that the big words of confidence, self belief and freedom to express themselves has produced EXACTLY the same results as Moyes did.
To "progress" Everton need to get into the top 4. let's see if you manage to do that with the financial constraints. Everton have maintained their position under Martinez.
The post was intended to those (including many Evertonians) who are failing to acknowledge that Moyes took Everton as far as they can go with their financial constraints and that Martinez being able to replicate Moyes' results (yes, he has only replicated the same results and not progressed as some claim, hard truth) is down to the excellent setup Moyes left at Everton.
Everton fans saying good riddance to Moyes, United fans having a go at Sir Alex, such a fickle fanbase football has.
What you need to understand coming from an Evertonian is after a long time we are now enjoying watching Everton, I'm glad how things have turned out with our club and I wouldn't want Moyes back or to turn back to how it was, yes we are currently in a similar position but the general feeling is pipping arsenal to that 4th spot is well within our grasp especially on current form of both sides, also yes of cause we have financial constraints but Europe would change a lot to what we could go after, that's the bare fact of our situation.
You know things are going ti.s up when we have Everton fans' gloating on a Manchester United forum.
What an excellent post redfaith! just started following this site a few months back and this is the best post I have read so far. I feel moyes should be given time and the backing by the club till december. the reason moyes failed miserably this season is because most of the players are already past their best and are bigger figures than him at the club. don't know why people especially (sad to say this - united fans here) want him sacked. who else is capable of taking over from now? best possible replacement yea obvious klopp. look what is happening to dortmund. yea he lost goetze and now lewandowski but he replaced them with good players for huge amounts as well. yes his team plays stylish attacking football. what about arsenal then? anyways I feel all is in the hands of the owners and the board and we should just back our manager for the moment. peace.
{Ed007's Note - Welcome to the site buddy but will you register your username please, cheers.}
Martinez has players like Phil Jag' wanting the ball to feet for a start!
It seems to be blindingly obvious that Everton are playing far better, with more flair and panache. Reciprocally it seems blindingly obvious that we are playing far worse, with worse results, morale, less panache and bravado, and (in case you missed it) less points.
The world is full of apologists. It is a distasteful and ugly trait.
At Everton under Moyes, it was accepted and reported that his answer was get it wide, stick to a plan and work hard (recognise anything?). Now under Martinez, it’s possession, passing and tactical fluidity. Even several of Moyes old players say Martinez tactics are better.
When it comes to comparing the two, some point at last year’s FA Cup sixth round tie. That was when Martinez’s Wigan beat Everton 3-0, a match where Moyes’ response to being played off his own pitch was to freeze and keep Barkley, his most exciting player, on the bench until the 80th minute.
Hard to see how it was missed when our club made the rather strange decision last summer.
Red Man
Barkelely last year was nowhere near where he is this year and could not get on the pitch even when he went on loan earlier in the season.
Barkeley not playing last year is not a Moyes thing and players tend to suddenly come into their own and some never do.
Wigan just beat city at home recently, who by most accounts will win the league. Does that make Pellegrini incompetent because that is even a bigger shock given the gap between those 2 teams.
Most normal people will accept that is why the game is great, but you are the type who blows where the wind blows and likes to blame and fly banners.
It is like the group that criticised dm for not playing Zaha, he is getting maybe 10 minutes and when they are desperate and have very little to pay for at Cardiff at the moment.
GCU
I found what Sheedy said interesting, did you?
27 Mar 2014 13:50:55
@Danny Pughnited (and some others too)
Part 1.
I think it is extremely funny to suggest that Everton stagnated in the last 5 years of Moyes' tenure because of Moyes.
To progress you need two things :- 1. Investment. 2. Keeping your best players at the club.
Moyes was never allowed a chance to do either of that. Everton simply cannot compete financially with the teams above them, and quite a few teams below them too. He had to sell one of his top players every season for the club to get by. He had to turn a profit every season on the transfer front.
Would you blame Sir Alex for the "stagnation"(or lack of progression, team going backwards etc.) post 2009 at Manchester United, or is it the lack of investment that is to be blamed? Perhaps comparing our situation to Everton's would give you a better idea of what I am getting at.
Look at what Moyes left at Everton. A squad with a good average age. An experienced back 4 that is better man for man than ours. A solid midfield with a top workrate. Mirallas is probably better than what we have on the wings. An experienced and settled goalkeeper. A young player in Barkley who was managed right. People arguing that Moyes held him back doesn't add up for me. Look at what has happened to Wilshere because of being thrown in at the deep end far too early.
All the new manager coming needed to do was get a couple of top players in on loan, and buy a new midfielder to replace an outgoing one and he was set. Martinez has no doubt done well this season, but has he really "improved" Everton points and goalswise? Hardly. Has their league position changed? Hardly. He has simply brought a different approach getting similar results.
The real test for Martinez will come in the summer when he will be faced with losing Lukaku, probably Barry as well and how he will cope with expectation. There was no pressure on him this season, there will be in the next one. let's see if he keeps them stagnated in 5th-6th place or gets them into the CL.
Part 2.
I am going to try and play the devil's advocate here and going to try and highlight exactly what Moyes has inherited, the challenges he faces and the positives that I have seen.
Mind you, I am under no delusion and would have preferred Guardiola, Klopp or Loew (not Jose, never), but like jred, I recognize that the state of the squad has to be largely blamed too.
Numerous managerial changes happened last summer, let's see what squads they inherited and what signings their clubs delivered for them :-
Guardiola - Inherited best team in Europe by a mile. Was given Thiago, Goetze and a pretty much done deal for Lewandowski.
Ancelotti - Inherited the second best squad on paper. Was given Isco, Illaramendi, Gareth Bale and Carvajal with Jese, Morata stepping from the youth systems.
Pelligrini - Inherited the best squad in the EPL. Was given Fernandinho, Negredo, Navas.
Jose - Inherited probably the second best squad in the EPL. Was given Schurrle, Van Ginkel, Willian, Eto and Matic in January.
Tata Martino - Inherited probably the third best squad in Europe. Club signed Neymar, Roberto stepped up from the youth side. Yet the club is in need of a few changes in the squad in key positions and the season has been somewhat a struggle, yet nowhere near the state of the squad that we are in.
David Moyes - Succeeded perhaps the greatest manager of all time (who had been 27 years at the club).
Squad inherited - A back 4 in terrible shape, in need of major surgery. A central midfield of 32 year old Carrick, the rest pretty much non existent. A 40 year old Giggs is our second best midfielder. Poor wingers (our best winger is an 18 year old from the academy!). A big Rooney issue. An aging squad which had never known managerial change.
Special mention to lack of leaders on the pitch. Those who are capable of leading i.e. Vidic, Evra, Rio, Giggs are all sadly past it. We have quite a few injury prone players in the squad and injuries haven't helped at all this season.
What he was given - Fellaini in the final few hours of the transfer window. A new chief executive.
A terrible messed up chase of Baines. Embarrassment on Fabregas, Herrera, Thiago chases. No significant Bale or Ronaldo like signing to give the squad a boost. In short the club failed to deliver in the most important transfer window in its history.
You asked what positives I have seen to argue the cliche of Moyes deserves to be given time. Well apart from the serious issues I have mentioned above here are the positives I have seen :-
1. Handling of the Rooney issue - He handled it well. I was one of those in the Rooney out camp last year, but looking at the squad now I realize that no way we should have let him leave. He did what was needed to keep Rooney and got him performing to his best level.
2. Januzaj - Giving a real chance to a bright young star from the academy. Yet he hasn't let success get into his head and has taken him out of the firing line a few times and not overplayed him.
3. Away form - We have the BEST away form in the league. Performances away have been almost as good as they were last season.
4. European form - For someone so inexperienced in Europe, Moyes has done well. You can only beat what is in front of you, and apart from Olympiakos away, it has been very good.
5. MOST IMPORTANTLY - Moyes is trying to deal with the core, the heart of the issues with the squad. This for me is the most important thing. He tried to address the central midfield problem in the summer, something which Sir Alex has neglected for the last 4 years. He tried to address the left back issue, which was also neglected by Sir Alex.
There is clear recognition from him that the squad needs investment and "major retooling" and some old heads need to go. Its blatantly obvious that he is scouting center backs too. He realizes that Rafael cannot be trusted while defending.
The problem is, the club failed to deliver in the transfer market last summer. I have absolutely no doubt that if we had signed Baines, Fabregas and Fellaini early on in the window alongwith somebody like Bale, we would be challenging for the title, even with Moyes. That was the need of the hour, yet the club failed to deliver.
Players on the pitch are what make the most impact. Pelligrini and Martino have won nothing in Europe, yet their teams are challenging for the title, majorly due to their clubs having excellent squads.
Even Jurgen Klopp has struggled with injuries to his player this season.
6. let's say we sack Moyes at the end of the season.
Who do we get to replace him? If (and this is a major possibility) that Klopp is not available and does not want to leave Dortmund, who else really is there that is going to take on this MASSIVE task at Manchester United? The other managers will have no doubt seen this, its a huge task.
Other mentions are Loew (but he too will be there only after the WC). Does Van Gaal fill you great confidence that things will be fine and we will be up there challenging? He doesn't give me that confidence at all.
Also, changing manager will have a terrible impact on our transfer policy for the summer. The club will lose precious time and miss out on players with targets needing revaluation from the new manager. We simply cannot afford a repeat of last year.
Everyone is simply assuming that if Moyes goes, Klopp will be available and we will get him. A huge and dangerous assumption to make.
Keeping all this in mind, I think Moyes DESERVES time. We will be better with better players. He has been tasked with rebuilding this team, let him do that. His targets, seem to be the right ones. I believe that we will make the top 4 next year with new additions.
IF Moyes then cannot challenge for the title a year two down the line, THAT is when we need to properly plan and make a managerial change. Not now.
What a very good post redfaith
The best post I have read for a long time hope you like what you read Danny and others who are jumping the gun to quick. Moyes is the manager and he will be given the huge task of overhauling the squad and I hope he makes a great job of it and think he will, people go on like they are happy to see him fail just to say told you so and that is a very sad person indeed
Enjoyed reading this post, different from all the usual knee jerk 'Moyes out' comments.
You make some good points RF.
Just got to remember SAFs message to everyone when he retired, to stand by our new manager. In times like these, it's exactly what he was talking about. He would have expected it, to some extent. He wouldn't have said it if he thought we'd be successful from the start, simple as.
Good analysis Redfaith and I agree with most of it. My concerns about Moyes are that he doesn't seem to be able to motivate our existing players, his team selection and tactics are at best questionable and finally his purchase of Fellaini for £27m is incomprehensible.
27 Mar 2014 14:51:16
Great post
Excellent post, but. we have no style of play, we are slow and almost static, City and Liverpool went from their keeper to a shot on our goal, including up to 10 passes, in seconds. after more passes, United were still in our own half! Moyes is too cautious, has no style, no adventure and has last years Premier league winning squad with 2 additions.
He sacked our back room staff, the ones who had shaped our success, cancelled transfer that May gave been pending under SAF, and posted off Zaha, when one of our main problems is the lack of wingers with pace and ability to dross.
As a United fan, I don't care who our manager is, as long as he can manage us how we need to be managed. IMO Moyes can't!
This is delusional. Moyes kicked out a world-class backroom team; he kicked back against done deals arranged by Ferguson who was well aware of the rebuilding needs; he has lost the confidence of the team; he was only the choice of Ferguson and Charlton with the rest of the board clearly unconvinced. And now he has lost the confidence of the fans because he is indecisive, unimpressive and confused. His media performances are woeful.
And if that is not enough he has reduced the market cap by about 25% and lost the spirit of the club. One presumes that the Nike deal is in renegotiation because of the chaos, morale crisis and the fact that this great institution is now a laughing stock.
Otherwise doing great.
Great post RedFaith and your points make good sense. The major problem is that the drop off in performance has been stark and our inability to do even the simple things well is very concerning. We were declining gradually under SAF, but Moyes has pulled the metaphorical plug on the patient!
Whilst Moyes hasn't walked into an ideal situation, I am dumbfounded by the majority of his comments and team selections as well as tactical naivety against good opposition - we are too negative. These things are all down to the manager and not the situation he found himself in and therefore the blank canvas I gave him is looking very smudged all of his own making.
Most fans like myself wanted to support Moyes and expected a bedding in period, but we are witnessing appalling negative football and a manager who looks lost - judged solely on this I can't see how we can trust his plan much longer because we are at a very dangerous point in our future.
The lack of suitable replacement options is also a major concern, which probably explains our boards patience. That said I have seen nothing in Moyes currently or historically that would suggest he knows how to correct things.
REDFAITH
Excellent post and some of the parallels people draw are not parallels at all.
Paulo
Motivation will only go so far and is a fashionable terms at the moment to blame moyes. Sometimes there is no substitute for talent no matter how motivated.
Red Faith great post mate and a few valid arguments too.But you seem to have missed a few points which I will list down for u.
1. Who sacked the experienced back room who would have known better about what squad lacked and what is was good at better than moyes.
2.Who cancelled arranged transfers that could have only if partially solved a few problems for us (strootman, thiago spring to mind)
3.Who did not sign a lb or cb either in jan or summer when eds have clearly said interest was there in garay and he was available or a lb could rather should have been signed because if u try signing a lb few hours before window closes shouldn't u try signing one jan evn if for temporary period.
4.Whose training methods and tactics are it that seemed to have alienated our best striker and most experienced cb pairing.
5. Whose fault is it we lost to olympiakos, westbrom, everton, stoke, sunderland drew with cardiff
And these aren't teams whose first teams cm anywhere utd's utterly rubbish and poor team.
Redfaith,
Excellent post - totally in agreement.
The anti Moyes hysteria is a beyond a joke, and it is HYSTERIA - evrything is wrong and nothing is right - sometimes all you can do is let them rant and wail.
The media and the opposition fans are loving the opportunity to put the boot in. especially those associated with Liverpool.
All I say to my Liverpool buddies is this - I agree United are having a poor season and this new era with SAF gone has not started wel. But my question to them is if Liverpool don't win the title this season ( and I have said all season they will not) - when will they!?!
Moyes needs and deserves backing and the funds to build his team - only then will I judge him
A few of the sqaud will retire - Rio, Vidic, Eva and Giggs - great servants but now past their best. Thanks and good luck to them.
Others are playing for their United careers - Young, Rafael, Buttner, Kagawa, Fletcher, Nani, Cleverly, Carrick, Valencia, Chica. I'd even include Van Persie in that group.
They won't all be leaving, not this Summer at least, but they have to do better or they will be gone.
We need a new LB and an experienced CB to bring authority to the back line and to continue bring on the younger players - Jones, Smalling and Evans.
We need energy in the midfield - probably 2 quality signings.
We need these 4 key adds this Summer.
We get that right and we have the foundation I placeto properly use the attacking talent already at the club, and I'd like that to include Kagawa, nut he himself has said he's not been good enough, except in glimpses.
Lose Van Persie and you need to add a forward.
This season is a write off, but I want to see who we buy this Summer and then get cracking on next season.
I don't even care about not being in Europe next year, in any shape or form - the League is the number one priority.
20 and counting!
Okay Redfaith, let’s see.
1. Everton: Stagnated means that Moyes got them to a certain level, upper midtable, and couldn’t do anything more with them. Of course, the lack of investment, and losing players had something to do with it. But the style of play also stagnated and, most importantly, Moyes failed to grow as a manager. He was still sticking to the same things year after year despite failing to win anything or get the team higher up the table. Moyes found a level and style of football that he was comfortable with and stuck to it. In other words, Moyes favours sticking with what he knows.
There certainly was an element of this in Fergie’s last few years. However, even Fergie is the first to admit that he did try to change and adapt to the demands of modern football: trying to bring in defenders who can play a high line (Jones and Smalling) and bringing in RVP so we had a striker who could run the lines. Ultimately, SAF was winning trophies during his last few years, despite a serious lack of investment.
The proof of the pudding has been in Everton’s play this year and, more directly, in comments from their players. Howard said straight out that the big thing Martinez has changed is that they now focus on their own game instead of focusing on how the opposition can hurt them. Martinez has in no way eclipsed Moyes at Everton. However, the players seem happier, the fans are definitely happier (and they even have higher attendances) and the quality of football on display is far higher than under Moyes. Next summer will be a big test to see if Martinez can bring in players to replace the loanees, but he has hit the ground running and that is much much more than can be said for Moyes.
2. I’m not going to entertain the poor Davey inherited a dud squad. It has been done to death and the only thing to say is: yes the squad is one of the weakest we have seen in recent years, but the squad is capable of playing much better than it has done under Moyes.
3. Moyes top two achievements are: (1) convincing Rooney to stay, convincing him to sign the biggest contract in the club’s history, and getting him to improve on last year’s form, and (2) playing one young player. Well Rooney has had a good season, not a great one as he has gone missing in far too many games, but he has also been afforded a completely free role for much of the season which has left our team unbalanced and our record signing playing out of position. As for Januzaj, yes Moyes deserves credit for playing him, but our youth coaches deserve the real plaudits.
4. Away form: we have beaten the weaker teams but have secured a mammoth two points away against teams above us. Hardly something to be celebrated, it simply shows that we struggle to win against good teams.
5. Europe: Have to say our two best performances this season were away against Bayern and home against Olympakios. But you have to admit that we have had an easy ride so far and we barely got through against the weakest side in the last 16. Tellingly, against Munich most people feel that it’s not a matter of if we lose but by how much. Would people have thought that last season? I doubt it.
6. Core Plan: What is Moyes’s core plan? I know he wants to bring in new players, but to what tactical end?
Let’s talk about the players he has brought in: First, a midfielder that still doesn’t have a clearly defined role and struggles against big teams. Yaya Toure, he ain’t, and I’m not sure what Fellaini really excels at: average passer, too slow to carry the ball forward and too clumsy in the tackle. Against City his main job seemed to be to offer an outlet for long balls and that was his main job at Everton too. Have we paid close to £30m for raw physicality?
Second, a top class number 10 who is constantly shunted to the right wing. Moyes breaks our transfer record so that Mata can play as a right winger. People say that this is part of a long-term plan, but what is the plan? A fluid 3 behind the main striker? We have seen no indication that this is the plan, and more importantly Rooney seems completely incapable and unwilling to do this: he wants a free role and when Mata drifts inside, he refuses to cover leaving us exposed.
So I have seem very little evidence that Moyes has a core strategic plan other than a ‘take every game as it comes mentality.’ Throwing money at new players won’t fix things unless Moyes is able to articulate a clear direction and style of play. But it is ironic that the man who is celebrated for his tenacity on a tight budget now needs huge investment to do anything with the league champions.
7. New Manager: Top managers need to be convinced to join a club. That’s how Bayern got Pep, how Real got Carlo and Chelsea got Jose. A club has to either offer a good squad or offer the backing required to develop a good squad. United were unable to convince Pep and instead of trying to convince another top manager, decided to plump for a man who didn’t need to be convinced. In Fergie’s words, he told Moyes he was the next manager. I have no doubt that we could convince an ambitious manager like Klopp if the club was willing to offer the investment required for success. So instead of bankrolling a bona fide flop like Moyes, we should be convincing someone with ambition to take us back to the top.
GCU. yes there is no substitute for talent, the same talent + 2 that we had last season. It's not about not liking Moyes. It's just not liking what has happened to our club! It isn't all about motivation, but you can see the difference when it's lacking!
Nice post but I couldn't disagree more. Moyes' has been an a failure thus far. He has managed to turn serial winners into serial losers in less than a year, which takes some doing. The worse thing is we have no sense of direction. On the rare occasions he does get it right, he then changes it. I mean, we had a good result and display against West Ham last weekend. We played arguably our best football of the season. We had players' in their natural positions and it showed with the quality of our play. Fast forward a few days and he changes it. Not only does he change it, he plays players' out of position.
His intrinsic ethos is to defend. He knows no-other way. It is almost like he is making a point of not reverting back to the systems that have worked this season, as it proves that his own system doesn't work, and probably never will; for we are not Everton and never will be.
The guy will be gone before long, IMO. It goes beyond his tactical ineptness as well. I actually believe that outside influences - namely big sponsors - might not be enamoured by the prospect of doing business with United while Moyes' is manager.
That is just my opinion anyway.
@common_sense moyes
1. So you think Mourinho/Klopp/Guardiola would have kept the same backroom staff? Would you take Mike Phelan now? Rene clearly had bigger ambitions. De Gea has actually progressed under the new coach.
2. Thiago was waiting for the Bayern offer which was his preference. This was confirmed by the eds. Strootman would not have taken us to the next level. The other Sir Alex targets were simply not good enough i.e Gaitan etc.
3. Moyes DID try to sign a left back and efforts are being made to sign center backs. We need to sign the right players, not just anybody who is available.
4. Alienated our best striker? I suggest you look at what RVP has done when fully fit. He has actually played well. He has a history of injuries.
The most experienced center back pairing is part of the problem. They are not good enough and a major reason why we drop deep since they have no pace.
5. Everton's midfield is superior to ours.
I am under no delusion that we should have done better against the rest of the teams you mentioned.
I suggest you read the post again, especially the last point. Who are you going to get to replace moyes? How will it affect our recruitment for this summer?
You have been caught up in the sack Moyes hysteria without having considered further consequences.
Finally a post about Moyes worth reading. Well done Redfaith, my faith in humanity and football supporters has returned.
We haven't seen a set formation or tactics this season as Moyes doesn't have faith in our current squad to be able to do the job he wants, unlike Rodgers at Liverpool last year, who had the players to begin his tactical transformation straight away. Therefore, he has concentrated on the opposition more than he/us would like but, when he has more quality next season, I'm 100% certain that it will change and we will see what the scousers saw last season and this.
OT7
You and I can agree to disagree. What you call talent I call over the hill and the younger ones clearly overrated.
Years of winning has only added to the sense of arrogance, entitlement and over rating and overreacting to what sometimes is right in front of you as nothing more than average.
Basingstoke
You clearly are unable to deal with a bad season and confuse facts with fantasy statements like "the rest of the board clearly unconvinced" is nothing more than science fiction statements.
The stock was always overpriced. Recommend talking to any financial analyst and they will tell you that.
OT7
I have no strong views on moyes one way or another. I am opposed to blaming him for everything.
I do have a very strong view that this team has had chronic underinvestment for far too long and even when we have invested many have turned out to be average to poor investments.
The ones that everyone is hanging their hat on being great are currently decent but nothing great and all have some limitation i.e Smalling, jones.
There are probably 8 players in our squad who would never get a game at Chelsea or City and would not be in their squads.
Then there are the home grown guys like Cleverly and Welbeck that I think are so overrated it is a joke.
In short I think this team is average, slow, old and many of our key players are too old and are looking for one final big pay check.
The Change of management has been the tipping point for accelerating what was coming.
REDFAITH and others
I don't have the time to write essays, but yours deserves a short response. I think it, along with other posts highlight what the problems are, how difficult it will be and what there is to resolve. I agree there are issues beyond Moyes but for me you can't get away from the point that the main issue is Moyes
There is something missing from the posts and that is the rationale why Moyes should be considered the right one. The problem with that is that there is no cogent argument, he has achieved no such level previously to show that he should be entrusted with one of the biggest clubs in the world. I operate at a reasonably high level in business but what justification would there be for me to be made Chancellor of the Exchequer? None.
The sentiment towards Moyes is admirable but everything he has done since taking the role has flagged that he doesn't have the ability to successfully carry out the role, from the incomprehensible press comments, to tactics, to purchasing Fellaini, to not purchasing the targets already lined up, to clearing out the back room staff.
Appeal to people's sentimental side by all means but nothing can give Moyes the experience and winning history that should keep him in this role. He should never have been appointed and now to ensure the club doesn't lose it's status it needs to act.
Red Man
As you already stated I don't have the patience for an essay to respond to your drivel.
"I operate at a reasonably high level in business"
I wonder what level that is :)
BTW what were Sir Matt Busby's achievements before his appointment at United and whilst you are at it go on and educate the board on what Shankly, Paiseley, Ancelloti, Wenger had won before their break throughs and appointments at a major club.
GCU.sorry mate, I think some wires are crossed here. I do agree with you. There are players that are over the hill, some youngsters that have gone backwards and some others that I think have never been worthy of the shirt, but in almost every instance, these players did win us the title. Moyes has not been able to motivate his players and it's obviously a very unhappy bunch of players. Maybe not all Moyes fault, and the players are not playing their part, but for me, the strange team selections, playing players out of position, getting rid of our back room obvious lack of direction are not the actions of a man that knows where he is and where get us going! I have no faith in him putting it right!
Redfaith, interesting post. Butas you know, my opinion is the opposite. I think the majority of fans are now seeing that's he was a bad choice.
You dissected our team and made it sound like we're a Sunday league side. The same team won the league last year and we've added januzaj, fellaini (he's rubbish but Moyes must have thought he's OK), and mata. So how can we be 18 points behind Chelsea?
Tactics and style, most will have patience if they can see an inkling of what style he's trying to achieve. Do you know what he's trying to achieve? If its a fluid high tempo, then we've gone and wasted £65m on two slow players. So what is the master plan?
Re what manager can take over or do better, I agree with red man and danny P, lots of managers will jump at the chance if they're convinced the club want to head in the right direction. Klopp will be great. Van gaal will be great. Some others might also be convinced, conte Simione. No one knows, but we're a top club and big managers want to manage top clubs.
No one wants to see Moyes destroyed, we would all much rather he succeeded. But he has shown zero skill, knowhow, confidence, motivation.
So do we keep throwing good money after bad, or do we change tack and try to get this club back where it belongs? We all want what's best for this club, so let's hope we can resolve the current situation one way or the other, and sooner rather than later.
Great post redfaith I think it will be a different United next year. Everybody has been shocked how difficult the transition has been but he really needs to be given a chance. Although I think Moyes has got his tactics wrong a few times this season znd played the wrong sides I believe he wouldn't have had to make such decisions had he got the players he'd liked over the last 2 windows. let's just enjoy the ride for the rest of the season.
27 Mar 2014 13:07:03
CTR I went on the Liverpool page and said about you bringing your boy home I hope you don't mind. Fantastic news btw mate :)
27 Mar 2014 11:53:43
Wow wonder if there is any truth in the class of 92 take over? Reports are saying they have huge middle east backing, hope its true but sadly probably just paper talk.
I read that this morning and assume it's a little more than rumour. It's no secret that there has always been lots of interest in us from the Middle East and if this gathers pace it will please an awful lot of people. Middle East backing and people upfront that know and love United. Can Becks run two clubs?
We live in hope!
There's more chance of pink flying pigs leading a consortium to buy the club.
Why would the Glaziers sell?
Sam, why would pink pigs be interested in buying our club? Anyway, right or wrong, I hope it's right
27 Mar 2014 11:32:01
URGENT ADVICE NEEDED FROM UTD FANS.
hello all, I would like some advice off the regular utd posters on how to cope with a title challenge, to utd fans maybe this is just normal for you, because of the titles you won under fergie, but I am not used to it. I now find myself shouting and screaming at the players on telly, I have started to bang my fists off the table even for a misplaced pass from one of our players, I hide behind the cushion when the other team is attacking, I am even praying to god for a result, whoever he/she is.should I drink more beer during the match, chain smoke through the game, help please I can't cope, I think I am heart attack material during the games, please help save lfc. thanks.
Drink more beer bro. We are all screaming at the players, banging our fists and drinking too but in frustration.
Not sure advice for temporary situations Lfc. we're more a long term thing. thanks for the giggles though.
Haha!
Liverpool have been decent this year to be fair. I still think it's City's to lose and you need 6 points from your games against City and Chelsea to stand a chance. but never say never.
Whoever wins it deserves it - the table never lies ;-)
The best way to cope with it is to stop supporting LFC, and start supporting a bunch of losers. Then you will be back in your comfort zone.
Good post lfc well done mate let's hope for your sake you don't stroke out when you fail
Haha, don't worry lfc, i'm sure it won't last mate ;)
Great post lfc. Don't worry mate, probably something similar to 24 hour flu, just lasts a little longer!;-)
I would probably savour the moment LFC. It might be another 20 odd years before you have these feelings again.
27 Mar 2014 10:53:42
I wanted to just say something brief. Preston north end were relegation fodder. a young Moyes pulled them up. narrowly missing out through the play offs. next season champions of that division. then the very next season again in the play offs which was remarkable. his team's have not exactly played like Bolton or the current west ham to get tbier either. it may not have the continental feel of Martinez but his team's have played good football. and to top it off Moyes has won more games than lost.
laugh at me if you want but I have seen tactical subtleties going on that made me think of Brazil. four free flowing attacking players.januzai, young, van p, Rooney Mata can all utilize the whole of the opposition half. I suspect our enemy right now is solid defence. fellaini and Carrick can improve and do very well behind the attack. the players will get comfortable with each other. a solid defence is all we need and confidence. it wasn't cleverly on the team sheet that worried me. sadly it was Rio. I've been a manager and I know sometimes you have to try things that probably won't pay off to get a clearer picture of what's on the table. I'm happy to see Moyes make some efforts. and can certainly understand him being shellshocked at this season and some players that Alex left. still recovering. that Everton are doing well is a testinent to Moyes foundations to allow Martinez to thrive. and pelligrini inherited an attractive squad with players at their peak who are used to managerial changes and therefore it ironically is less disruptive than changing a manager who has been there forever.
the question for me isn't if Moyes is right or not. it's if he can hold his nerve against the tide of unrest. I'd like to hear more do than try from him.
I have faith in Moyes for much deeper reasons than blind faith and Sir Alex recommending. although I'm definitely not one of those that would attack Alex at a game. that was disgraceful.
Fergies a director earning a very nice figure, why shouldn't he be held accountable for his decision?
Similarities to Brazil? LMAOF.
I can only assume you mean Alan Brazil :)
Are you joking carloto?! How very short sighted and ungrateful of you.
I'm judging Fergie as a director and not the former manager. Unlike some I don't give him godlike status.
What in god's name are you talking about? I'm assuming you are taking the proverbial!
Interesting post nonetheless!
27 Mar 2014 10:25:13
I wonder how much longer Moyes is going to get. Say we struggle against Villa and get annihilated by Bayern where do we go from there? Will nice shiny new players improve us much? When you think that Moyes can't get good performances out of previously important players such as Carrick, Rafael, RVP, Kagawa etc and can't get Mata firing despite being one of the best around. Is he going to buy players like Mata and play them out of position?
I tell you what, I don't think that new players will improve us much and that will show that Moyes is the problem. I think he needs to go now before it's too late - the fans are getting on his back, his 'chosen one' banner will be ripped down eventually and a group of fans are looking to fly a banner over the stadium saying Moyes out. The club is in turmoil and the fans are in revolt.
How long can this last? He can't last much longer.
Come on fresh
rvp has 18 goals in 25 games fergy couldn't get a good game out of kags and raf can't defend.
Will moyes get the sack if we get stuffed of Munich, they might as well sack him now because look at the 2teams on paper Munich are better man for man all over the pitch.
Which players do you think played amazing last year but have been poor this year
Rafael had a very good season, Fellaini was good and Cleverley wasn't as bad as he is now. Vidic was better and Kagawa was showing signs. The big one for me is Carrick. A lot of the older heads have got a lot worse because of the training regime.
Raf can't and never has been able to defend.
Fellaini played for Everton (under moyes)
Cleverly was average last season and has hardly got a look in this year, probably because he is average.
Vidic in his 23 games he managed while returning from a serious injury was no better than he has been this season imo .
Kagawa, r u having a laught.
Carrick played better last year.
Training regime I don't know anything about or the effect it is having on players and I won't pretend to.
Fresh bro Fellaini was playing under Moyes at Everton. Carrick is a year older and as had injuries. Kagawa was and is showing nothing.
Didn't mean Fellaini lol. It's well documented that the older players are doing a lot more running which is leading to a lot more injuries, e.g. Carrick, RVP etc.
Fresh maybe the problem is there getting old .
But to be fair Carrick has had 1 injury which other players have become injury prone due to moyes training
@jred
You are right.
There has been a tendency on here to blame everything on Moyes.
Jones, Smalling, Evans, Rio, Vidic were all injury prone last year too, its not Moyes specific whatsoever. We leaked goals last year as well.
RVP has a history of injuries. If people are going to blame Moyes for that knee injury right now then I really don't know what to say.
Evra has been poor for long. Rafael has never been a great defender. The wingers have been poor for quite a while and Cleverley is no more than a squad player (even that is taking it too far imo).
But of course, its all Moyes' fault.
Redfaith
Everybody on this site raised the issue with the quality of our Fb, CB, Cm and wingers last season yet this season it's all down to moyes
Carrick usually covers more ground than anyone in a lot of our games though, only bested by Rooney. So he's been good fitness wise it's just his form has been awful, I wouldn't put that down to the training.
Also with RvP the cause of him being on the sidelines is usually when he takes a knock in a game not in training.
You've got to remember every time we've faced Everton in the past few years with Moyes being their manager they've looked a very fit team, well organised while playing some decent football.
I honestly think half the players need to go for us to be successful again because after Fergie left so did a lot of the older players motivation to win.
Bred/redfaith, if your argument holds and all the players mentioned were crap last year as they are this year, so how can u explain the same crap players winning the league by 11 points and this year they are 18 points behind already? Crap last year, crap this year, only thing changed is the manager.
27 Mar 2014 10:22:38
Good morning Manufans (think Robin Williams)
Apparently the stewards won't let the fans take down the chosen one sign, and here was I thinking it was as an expression of fan sentiment. How long will this charade be allowed to continue?
It seems to me the club has a serious PR issue developing with the supporters. If they really want to keep Moyes then the first thing that needs to happen is for Ferguson, on behalf of the Board, to make a public announcement not just backing him but taking some of the responsibility for leaving him with a squad unable to compete. If the Board does not shoulder some of the blame and explain what their plans are, then we the fans have no choice but to condemn the manager. They cannot have it both ways. So, if slide continues through to the end of the season, with additional losses to teams like Everton, they cannot expect the supporters to continue to "believe" in Moyes. Why should we? All we can see is last year's champions being humbled week after week by a succession of clueless inept performances, lack of basic skills, inept tactics and poor substitutions, spiritless displays and (justifiably) low morale.
The sign reminds me somewhat of the one behind Bush as he proclaimed victory in Iraq - an increasingly ironic embarrassment.
Peashooter instead of taking the sign down should it not just be amended to more accurately reflect the situation? Might I suggest :
'The Chosen to Carry the Can One'?
Puzzled, made me chuckle that
Jred - then my day is complete
If I would have been Moyes as soon as that banner went up I would have told them to take it down, a banner like that should be earned and not because ferguson chose him.
Peashooter
Apparently from twitter I am guessing?
What makes you think the board of a publicly listed company needs to start making comments in response, every time a few like you lot get your knickers in a twist.
You guys are a trip and take yourselves way too serious.
Puzzled
Very funny I have to say.
GCU this is too much - I am getting a little self-conscious now
GCU, I don't know how to use Twitter! If I did I would come up with even more inane ideas.
It's not all Moyes fault, but he has had two transfer windows and 70m, not including Rooneys and Nanis new contracts, to spend in his first season, and made zero progress. That in itself is colossal ineptitude.
Has anyone truly seen anything in his attitude or career to date, that says, yep he has the capacity to dominate the great managers/teams of Europe?
Puzzled
Enjoy it whilst it lasts :)
GCU. 'enjoy it'. do you mean your fleeting approval or United's demise,
because I think the latter will greatly outlast the former
The subject of our demise is another discussion and hopefully a summer of spending on relevant players and a bus ticket for quite a few in the current squad will be the end of that discussion.
The reality is this is just a bump in the road to titles no 21, 22, 23and so on and CL titles 4, 5, 6 and so on and only reconfirm our status as the greatest football club on the planet :)
The pundits love to write us off and we love to prove everyone wrong. it is part of our DNA like no other club.
GCU
That is the same attitude we had in 1970 the titles would just keep coming
Agreed red man. CGU, you keep telling us that mourinho is rubbish, and you put your self firmly in moyes's camp, but what's happened so far this season has not backed up your judgement.
Both managers took on top teams, but ours has demolished the club, the team and divided the players and supporters. While mourinho has managed to buy a couple of excellent players, united the team and the fans and stands at the top of the league.
They are not in the same league.
Nomid
I never said mourinho is rubbish and stop putting word in my mouth. Whilst he is a good manager he lacks certain things in character that obviously you are ok with but I am not.
What we disagree on is that he has always inherited good teams and has had massive money to spend to build his ideal teams.
If you believe the team he took over under their specific circumstances at Chelsea what DM took over at United and those circumstances are two of the same things, Unfortunately I have to say that you are truly clueless and borderline .
You are a hypocrite because given that year you could not stop bitching and moaning about how bad some of the players were and how we played poorly were lucky to win games. Now suddenly they are champagne footballers and the manager is at fault. At least I said they were no good last year and no good this year.
I mean how complicated can it be to understand we are an old team that lacks pace, concedes way too many goals, has a very poor midfield when matched against top level opposition and little pace or penetration upfront.
You don't need a Harvard MBA to figure that out, it is called a need to rebuild 1 or 2 players do not fix that or the philosophy of football that has been followed at the club the last 25 years.
Red Man
I think you are damaged goods mate from your yester years of being a united supporter.
2014 is avery different time to 1970 football and the world is a different place.
Teams like stau bucharest and spartak moscow were european power houses and the scousers were winning tons of stuff. Neither is going to be repeated. :)
.
"You are a hypocrite because given that year you could not stop"
was suppose to say "because last year"
27 Mar 2014 08:44:38
Sorry TK-Red but you are not right.
The team has been in general decline for years which is something that all Utd fans agree with. I also agree that last sason we won the league by being the best out of a bad bunch which is part of the reason that we have been found to be short this season.
However to say that Utd were one dimensional and boring last season is simply not the full truth. There were a number of games last season where we fell behind and then found a way to come back and win i.e. the formation was altered to try and change the game etc. Don't think the 3-2 win at City was boring football either! The quality might not of been up to previous teams but the desire and application to tactics was Ok.
Utd were also the top scorers last season scoring 20 goals more than City and 11 more than chelsea. We also let in more goals than both City and Chelsea. That's not a team playing pure boring 1-0 football!
As a Utd fan I support the team at all times (blind faith) and accept sometimes that we don't play the best football in the world.
However apart from Barcelona and perhaps Bayern Munich no one plays dream football all the time and is successful.
You have to get off your seat for the passion of the game and not just because we played unbelievable football and cut a team to shreds.
In some respects I witnessed more excitment and passion watching Utd in the 70's and 80's when the quality of the football was poorer but the hunger from the supporters was relentless!
Now some people just don't get excited unless we play dream football.
---------------------------------------------------
The question wasn't about what excites me us, it was about teams who have won the league playing boring football and your post has jumped the issue somewhat. Anyone can pick out the odd game that we played well or the numerous occasions they were off their seat for one reason or another but in terms of the brand of football we were playing, it can very much be classed as boring. Using last season as an example is also pointless as I think we all can agree that it was a freak season. Don't confuse getting excited about a game with us playing an entertaining brand of football as it simply isn't true. Then again, as you say, it takes all sorts.
TK
I agree we haven't been great to watch for a few year now
We've slowly but surely been getting worse, in that sense, since we won the CL. That summer we signed Berbatov which meant that the pace of our game slowed, the we sold Ronaldo and replaced him with Valencia who isn't anywhere near as mobile or versatile, we also got rid of Tevez. Lots of little things that added up.
27 Mar 2014 08:20:56
A few points to address so I'll merge them here.
Danny Pug: Moyes took a team who were annually either fighting relegation or being relegated and the next year fighting for promotion. To a team comfortably in the top 10 of the premiership and sometimes fighting for 4th. He did this with little or no money. He developed or bought players, some on here now covet like Ross Barkley or Coleman. I find it ironic that you hear a lot of pundits saying Pellegrini inherited a great team built by Mancini. Nobody is saying Martinez inherited an excellent team built by Moyes, but its true. Almost all top managers are given the chance to step up this is Moyes chance ( He's made a few mistakes already). Whether he is up to the job only TIME will tell.
19Jack: Yes I agree 4231 Moyes has been edging to this all season. I just don't think he believes we have the squad at the moment.
Gman: he can play 4231 with Rooney and RVP but he must play Rooney on the right of the 3.
Samthered: I'd be very happy to see youngsters given a run though I'd be loathe to see Nani wear our colours again.
Flint: FFS read your post "according to" according to who the suspense is killing me lol.
Now let me ask you a question. If we take Samthred's premise ( I'd be better asking if we could for a lot of our younger players are on loan)
with this season being a write-off, would you like to see younger players given the chance and except we may lose even more games or play our best team till the end of the season?
Grund. the "according to" is this site blanking out another's site from being named. not sure why as it keeps us all informed who's dodgy and who's not. probably auto blank
{Ed001's Note - the sites that get blocked out were ones that spammed us.}
Thanks ed. appreciate the insight. but even better if you allow us to rightfully discredit them? I can honestly say this is about the only site I have faith in. the eds have credibility.
{Ed001's Note - the problem was that sometimes you can have a large number of editors helping out, covering while a site's main editor is not around. During those periods we were getting multiple repeat spam posts that would get passed because each editor was unable to check with all the other editors to see what had already been posted. We are looking into a long term solution to sort out those kinds of issues, such as the registered users etc. So in time we do expect to remove a lot more of the filtering and leave it more up to the editor's discretion.}
Grund,
It's try that Moyes did a good job at Everton. He took a relatively struggling team and stabilised them as a top 10 team. However, Everton completely failed to progress under Moyes for the last five years of his tenure: no trophies, no change in playing style, and no indication that Moyes was ever capable of guiding the team to anything more than a respectable finish. In other words, Moyes took Everton as far as he was capable and then they stagnated. This is not the record of a top manager sought after by top clubs, it's the record of a good midtable manager. No other top club even looked at Moyes and, tellingly, he failed to meet the criteria outlined by Gill last May.
As for developing young talents. Moyes record is tenuous to say the least. Coleman, yes, he developed under Moyes. Barkley, however, was never given a chance until this season. In fact, if you look back over Moyes decade in charge you will struggle to find many players who made the transition from Everton's youth team to the first team. Added to this are claims that his training methods had negative impacts on players like Rodwell and, most damning of all, that his youth coach, Kevin Sheedy, publicly claimed that Moyes didn't give a crap about the club's youth system. The idea that Moyes is good at developing young talent is just another one of the myths that were used to justify a poor decision last summer.
If you honestly think that Moyes's achievements at Everton warranted him taking over one of biggest and most successful clubs in the world, then you must have very limited ambitions for our future.
Nice.too many sites get away with terrible journalism. it's become the norm. it would be nice to name and shame. good to see the original principles of this site hasn't been watered down. and as a side note and not wishing to over flatter. the communication between posters and administrators is a good balance and much appreciated.
{Ed001's Note - thank you, the naming and shaming was a major part of the initial idea behind the site. It was not so much about spreading rumours, more about debunking the false ones and highlighting the few that are true. Mainly as a result of reading so much nonsense in newspapers and getting fed up of reading stuff I knew to be untrue.
As for the flattery, feel free, we don't mind flattery here! And thanks, it is a difficult blend, especially knowing when it is best not to get involved, and which sites are just not worth bothering to try and pass on info on yourself, but to pass to the relevant editor of the site to decide what to do with.}
Danny I want United to be the best team in the world, if that is limited ambition, then I'm guilty.
Your either being deliberately obtuse on Everton or ignoring the facts. In the 10 years Moyes was at Everton their net spend on players was +£10m that's right they made a profit of approx £1m a year. Chelsea's average spend was £52m per year that's right £520m loss on players. Man City £48 m per year most of that in the last 5 years. Liverpool £20m per year.
What fishes me off and where I think our problems stem is for the 6 years before Moyes and after Glazers. Our spend has been £22m per year 20% of cities budget about 30 % of Chelsea's budget 60 % of Liverpools budget and less than Aston Villa or Southampton.
I am so glad that the argument is finally settled once and for all. Henchoz has just confirmed what many have been saying "moyes is out of his depth because he managed Everton before United". Given what an accomplished player and legend of the game this guy is we can all now safely agree that Moyes is wrong for the job.
Unfortunately this is not a universally shared view and stiffs like Beckham, Cantona, Scholes, Palister, Neville, Irwin, Cole, Dalglish, Yorke, Schmeichel to name a few think he is right for the job and should be given time and creating unnecessary confusion.
Given this state of stalemate, I recommend hard core supporters to start burning effigies of moyes at all upcoming home games until those stiffs on the united board, who have achieved nothing and obviously want to harm our great club see how wrong they are and sack this guy.
We can all live happily thereafter and get on to another subject.