Manchester United Banter Archive March 27 2015

27 Mar 2015 22:28:44
One last thing on the Ronaldo debate. Anyone saying he's in decline, he's finished in two years etc, total rubbish. He's just won the ballon d'or again, hit the 40 goal mark again, and will be tearing it up for yeas to come yet! He's the ultimate professional, look at the condition of him. He will play at the highest level for 4/5 years at least yet. If he wants to come back then I'd pay his airfare myself. Clearly would improve us tenfold. Don't understand why people are so put off by big fees and wages. We pay enough money to watch, and the club generate enough for us to expect to fork out big money signing every now and then. It's not my money so I'm not interested in players prices, just getting top players so we can compete

27 Mar 2015 23:02:43
Spot on stand.

The phrase in decline being used for a player who has just won the Balon D'Or is just unbelievable naive. The problem with folk on here is they are too rapped up on their video games with wonder kids here, there and everywhere. The guy is 30. He is not old. He is a physical masterpiece. He is a better player than 99.99999 per cent of anyone else who has kicked a ball.

Again do I think we will get him? No. Would I want him? No question.

28 Mar 2015 08:15:17
I posted a few weeks ago about an article in Marca on Ronaldo's left knee. He has seen specialists and it means he can't make the powerful runs that were evident when he first played for us and at Madrid. The article pointed out he now shortens what he does and concentrates in and around the penalty area. If you watch him that does seem to be what he does.

I have no problem bring him home but the price has to be right for an admittedly brilliant player and they need to check his left knee as to its impact in the next three to five years

28 Mar 2015 11:51:38
Red man I am must admit I am very sceptical about what I read in Marca. When I've watched him lately he seems fine movement wise but then again I am no physio or doctor so I don't know what signs to look out for. Persoanlly I think he has another 3-5 seasons left as being regarded as one of the best players in the game.

29 Mar 2015 09:17:10
Jmb

I recall Portugals doctor giving him a warning about his knee at last years World Cup. I don't think you see Ronado making the same bursting runs as he used to. I am sure any physical will look at it carefully.

27 Mar 2015 21:17:01
Eds I think ye should open a new ronaldo page, some of us need to let go, I think he will stay in Spain for another 2 or 3 years.after that his finished

{Ed007's Note - I think that Kris Commons recently signing a new two-year-deal at Celtic put the stops on Ronaldo moving this coming summer - unless a swap deal can be arranged. I'm not sure how Ronaldo would settle in Glasgow.}

27 Mar 2015 21:43:39
Commons wouldn't like Spain, it might be too hot for him, and ronaldo wouldn't be able to work on his tan in Glasgow, only for the weather it might go through!

29 Mar 2015 03:59:07
Kris commons, good player, went to my school and is best friends with my cousin. ronaldo couldn't lace his boots.

27 Mar 2015 11:56:08
Ronaldo won't move to city or united if he's still wants to.compete to be the best. United nor city or even Chelsea offer him the platform Madrid does. If he's.looking for a last big pay day then maybe but the boys worth nearly 200 million. I personally don't see him in the PL next season but I would like to see a top player like him back in the league to improve the league

27 Mar 2015 12:30:49
Well tbh its a good job your track record of opinions is not often correct :P

27 Mar 2015 12:57:33
ctr
I'm 90 % correct when it doesn't involve Liverpool.
I always stated Rodgers would be caught out after February even when united' fans were giving him invalid credit for turning his own mess around.

27 Mar 2015 14:59:27
I wouldn't be surprised if United ended up with either Bale or Ronaldo.

Big Al, United will be top dog again very soon.

27 Mar 2015 16:24:47
I love watching Ronaldo, I was a great fan when he was here, but I'd much rather we signed the "next Ronaldo" in whatever

position. So give me the option Bale or Ronaldo (Ronnie by far the better player right now and I doubt Bale will ever be as good, though at his age bound to improve, I'd take Bale) but for either the prices would be to high. I'd much rather we signed younger players with potential, though I'm certain we'd all prefer our youngsters coming through, but with the average PL manager lasting only 1 year hard to imagine a manager taking the risk.

27 Mar 2015 09:00:25
With the internationals looming the media debate always swings back around to homegrown talent, the grass roots of our game and how we can produce better HG players. Now myself I am not a massive international football enthusiast, sure I enjoy the World Cup and the Euros but other than that I am by no means an avid fan.

Having said that, yes I would like the home nations to fare better in big tournaments especially my beloved Scotland so where do we all stand on getting the best out of HG players? There's now more talk of reducing foreign imports and implementing more laws in regards to having a certain amount of HG players in a squad. Will that help any?

I for one am a complete believer in if your talented enough, dedicated enough and determined enough you'll make it. Whether your name is Jack or Jose, Robinson or Rodriguez, is irrelevant. I understand where folk come from in regards to saying the increase of foreign imports reduces the spaces we have for kids coming through but if the kids are good enough surely they will force their way into the team.

I personally think that the problem is not our set-up, our coaching or even our clubs but the young lads themselves. I feel young Brits lack the willingness to succeed, determination, humility and desire of our foreign compatriots. I feel it's the mentality of our youth that let themselves down rather than their ability. Skills can be coached but strength in character can only be nurtured.

27 Mar 2015 09:52:37
It all comes down to education in my opinion. And the only way to fix that is to bring up the level of coaching. Some of the best managers in our league weren't top level footballers and they have an education that is not just football based. LvG was a teacher, and both Mourinho and Wenger are intelligent men who could be successful in a career outside of football if they so wished.

In England we have this "Roy of the Rovers" mentality where if you run faster, tackle harder and play with heart then you'll overcome technically superiority. And on occasions it does work, Stoke are a prime example of a team who are tough to play against for the top teams. But Stoke never come close to winning the league which shows that in fact it is technical skill and not heart that wins more often than not.

In England we 2, 769 licensed coaches, if you look at the ratio between licensed coaches to players in England that is 1 coach to every 812 players.

In Germany they have 34, 970 with a ratio of 1:150

In Italy they have 29, 420 with a ratio of 1:48

In France they have 17, 588 with a ratio of 1:96

and in Spain they have 23, 995 with a ratio of 1:17

So for Spain a country lauded for the technical skill of their players they have one licensed coach for every 17 players, where as we have one for every 812 and then we wonder why our players lack technical quality.

A pupil will only ever be as good as the education he is given, if our players aren't good enough it is because we aren't coaching them well enough.

We need to address the real issue and focus on the education of our coaches. People wonder why we have so many foreign players but no one wonders why we have so many foreign coaches and managers.

Until this is addressed we will continue to "under perform" at international level.

27 Mar 2015 10:59:59
I'm not expert in this, but I have seen Shappy's stats before on the coaching and its almost laughable how far behind we are in that area, so I agree a lot has to do with coaching.

I also think a higher proportion of our kids are spoilt, having access to phones, computers etc from a young age, which means they are out of their parents hair but doing very little sports wise. My old man was a tyrant, if he saw me watching TV on a half decent day it would be a clip round the ear and get out with a football and play with your mates. Nowadays it's not as safe (media hype), kids all have other interests and parents are going for the easy option too much because of laziness, funds or simply being too busy leading their own lives. (Obviously there are a great many exceptions, but taking the average).

Typically young kids with talent are molly-coddled too much as well, they take longer to become men and take responsibilities for their actions - the whole X-Factor generation is leading to a lot of our potential stars giving up the second they meet adversity because it is made too easy for them during their formative years. How few of our current crop of Internationals are leaders? A stubbed toe and they are out for a month, how can we expect our boys to be great men if they never turn into men.

The weather in the UK doesn't help, as I travel a lot to mostly warm climates the amount of kids I see playing football compared to when back in the UK is ridiculous. Maybe they are not getting coached, but anybody showing talent will be picked up in no time at all, the pool is larger overseas despite populations. I dread to think of all the talent back home going to waste as they score make believe goals on the X box instead of their local park.

Another issue is our weakness mentally, we seem to have developed into a society where its ok to try and not win, "its the taking part that counts" rubbish. We aren't hungry like we used to be, other nations through poverty or simply mind-set are far less likely to accept failure, we on a whole are weak now, it started during the fall of empire and the results are what we see today, its almost acceptable to be claiming benefits from the state, there is no shame in failure now.

It's that same weakness that has me frustrated the "Arsenal Sydrome" I call it, which we seem to be sleep walking into ourselves as Utd fans, since when is top 4 only, a success? That feeds down to our kids.

Obviously there are major exceptions, great parents, hungry kids, active kids, people genuinely having no option but benefits, but taking things as a whole I think these core reasons together is why we are so far behind, poor role models, fear to install discipline and bad organisation.

27 Mar 2015 11:38:09
Beast/Shappy very good points lads. I think it's essentially a combination of all those things but I would still stand by the notion that if your good enough and determined enough you will make it.

Shappy I would like to ask you about the South Americans who come from very little and always seem to be superstars. I don't expect you to pluck stats out of think air but it would be intresting to know what the coaching set up is over there. I can't imagine The numbers adding up to anywhere near the European leagues or the coaching being to the same standard. So is it individual drive and self belief that is key?

Beast I think you make a very good point in terms of the media in the UK. It's not safe out to kick the ball about with your mates is a perfect example of your point. Also this culture of 'it's the taking part that counts' is a flaw. I know parents who won't let their kids play competitively at ten years old because they don't want them to lose and get upset. At ten years old the Dutch and Spanish are kids are being picked up by super clubs.

27 Mar 2015 12:05:25
Good post shappy No idea whether your stats are correct but listened to a radio debate sometime ago when it was highlighted just how few coaches at all levels we had compared with the countries you mentioned. We focus on pace, power, passion, physique instead of skill, technique and all round awareness. Is it a coincidence that all our clubs have struggled in the champions league in the last few years eg arsenal ran around like headless chickens against an monaco who just picked them off

27 Mar 2015 12:52:54
Its partly kids attitude, using zaha as an example, partly clubs overcharging as its easier and cheaper to buy a foreign player in the mid 20s or above compared to an u21 championship player, and the lack of coaches. Biggest tv deal in history and how much is going to grass roots?

27 Mar 2015 13:42:26
Juan, when it comes to South American players it is as much a cultural as it is a numbers game. There is a massive working class population in South America and their only way out of the poverty is football, they live and breath it. Many of the kids spend 6-7 hours every day playing football from a young age. This dedication to football almost above everything else isn't something we can replicate in Europe. But as much of this it is also a numbers game, and the number of young lads playing football is more than our entire population. So again we can't compete.

I agree to a point that in England that they get too much too soon, but you don't get it until you are a professional in England. But this issue only happens because it is rare to get a youngster come through and make it, so when they do it goes over the top. If we had more top coaches training these lads to a higher level more would make it and then they would all get less and they would be competing with more people for those few spaces at the top.

The standard of living in England is pretty much the same as it is in countries such as Spain, Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands yet they don't have the same issue with young players getting too big for their boots. That is down to the education these lads have had coming through.

The answer is simple, more coaches trained to a higher standard will result in us having better players.

27 Mar 2015 17:50:06
And places for them to actually coach as well shappy :)

27 Mar 2015 19:17:58
I recommend reading Soccernomics by Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski. It goes into a lot of the statistics, including education levels for both players and coaches. In particular it suggests there's been a reverse class bigotry in the sport keeping out well educated players and coaches.

On the other hand, given the statistics, including the reduced pool of players due to reverse classism etc, it suggests that England has been no more or less successful than would be predicted. We just think we ought to be better than we are!!