Manchester United Banter Archive November 27 2014

 

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27 Nov 2014 14:04:43
Tragic news vuys, I hope this gets posted on the banter page.

A 25 year old cricketer has died in the name of philip hughes from a bouncer.

Rip to his family and its really sad to think that playing something you love can kill you. So let's cut some slack out for our sportsmen as life is too short.

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28 Nov 2014 07:15:45
Tragic news it is.
I hope God gives their family & the bowler strength to come through this situation.

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Singh

What a terribly tragic event. As an F1 fan we've also had Schmacher not recovering and Bianchi still in a very bad way.

It's been a dreadful year, what a truly freakish event to cause Hughes's death.

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Definitely Ajh, I am a huge fan of cricket and sports, to see someone die is really heart breaking as we all take things for granted.

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27 Nov 2014 12:16:10
Hi all,
I would like to gauge peoples opinion on the summers biggest transfers and how do you think those plays are doing at their respective new clubs

Fabregas / Costa. Chelsea. I think its fair to say both have been a huge success and fully justify their fees. Costa hit the ground running and looks a real goal threat. Fabregas oozes class during every match, he creates chances throughout every game its strange that some on here didn't want him for United.

Lukaku Everton. slightly different as he was used to his surroundings but IMO has not lived up the the outlay at this stage.

Di Maria Man Utd. Started well looks a real threat but has work to do to live up to the price tag, he needs a longer period to settle in as the speed of the EPL is alien to him

Herrera Man Utd. Not shown too much due to injury I hope and believe there is better to come from him. will LVG give him more game time noew he is fully fit

Shaw Man utd. as above I think he will improve he is only a kid

Markovic Liverpool. Not played much. not injured much. Not much to add
Lallana Liverpool. unlucky to be injured personally I think he has been 1 of their better players i'm glad every time I see him on the bench
Balotelli Liverpool. Totally Mental Buy enough said.
James Rodreguez Real Madrid. Done less than Di Maria was doing at Real. But will come good surrounded by quality
Suarez Barca. 1 goal regaining his sharpness will be a hit i'm sure
Lovern / Liverpool . southampton have improved and pool have not. that says it all
Blind Man Utd. a relative success and more to come too will be a valuable member of the squad for a few years
ROJO Man Utd. injured not settled will be a decent signing intime I believe
Sanchez arsenal. alongside costa and fabregas the best success story so far. oozes quality
Welbeck Arsenal. Has done OK but that's what he is. OK


To me it appears with the odd exception that very few are instant hits no matter where they go or what quality the possess. It takes time to settle with new team mates and new surroundings / climate / food / etc
So let's not be too critical of our new signings at this stage

Opinions welcome on these or any other high profile signings made during the summer.

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I agree with all of your points Ken. Although I think Welbeck has done well, not amazing but better than ok. He represents superb value at £15m, never going to be world class, but he has done well.

Southampton's signings have been very astute so far obviously, I like Tadic, Pelle & Aiderwald.

City's Fernando & Mangala seem to be struggling as well.

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I agree with some. On Di Maria, he has had to play out of position on a number of occasions, so we can't blame him for that. As for him getting used to the pace of the PL, I think you'll see that in Spain, they have to be very quick and high paced too, it is just that they play at varying speeds while the PL is always played at 100mph.
Likewise with Rojo, Blind, Hererra, Falcao and Shaw. They are all excellent players, but have all had their injuries.
Chelsea have had no injuries at all to any of their important players, but these things even out. I would like to see how good Fabregas is without Costa or vica versa, also if Terry and Cahill got injured then their back four would not look so good.
I think we have to bear in mind the ridiculous number of injuries we've had, without them, the players and the team would have settled much earlier.

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{Ed007's Note - *shit-stirring alert* Why can't we blame ADM when he's played out of position but people have a pop at Rooney when he's told to play on the left? What's the difference?}

27 Nov 2014 13:17:41
I agree beast I forgot to Merton the city lads both are really struggling mangala was highly regarded by most on here but still had time to adapt. Vidic had a a start the same.

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Yes, I think without doubt Costa, Sanchez and Fabregas are the best buys of the summer. But I expect that when they settle in Di Maria and Falcao will complete that list.

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Has Di Maria been played out of position though? He has quite often been played as a winger and as a central midfielder. I would say overall he is classed in the minds of most as being a left winger.

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27 Nov 2014 15:25:01
Bond you have gone from post of the day yesterday with your ass icon to Sh1t stirring person in one go. :)
Im not so sure that ADM has been played out of poisition he has played on the wing or as part of a midfield diamond for many years and he has played both positions for us

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I agree with Beast, Soton have made decent signings!
Ken, no opinion on Kroos? I Think Alonso is doing well in Germany as is Kagawa, but that was a given.

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mbd              

I don't see how anyone can claim that Welbeck has done well for Arsenal. He has played 13 games as the main striker and scored 5 goals. Seems like a decent return, but 3 of those were in one CL game. 2 EPL goals, against Villa and Hull, for the main striker in one of the better teams is a poor return for £15m so far, and with Wenger already talking about shifting him wide, it looks like Danny will soon be ousted by Giroud, a compotient but unremarkable striker. This would be a big mistake as we all know Welbeck is a top class player, better than Cavani.

Imagine if Beast saw Welbeck without those rose tinted glasses, what a work eh?

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So is adm a winger or attacking midfielder or both, to get the best out of him we need more quality in midfield, and a more stable defence and then sort out whether van persie is going or stayin, plus is falco staying or are we bringing in a striker, we need stability in the whole squad, bring in the players we need, get rid of the deadwood,

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West Ham Sakho, smashing in goals for fun.
Southampton Pelle, smashing in goals for run.
Guess there not fashionable enough for a mention.

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Danny - When you are playing with one up top there is more to the game than just scoring. You have to bring other players into the game and make sacrificial runs, hassle opposition players. Welbeck has linked well and contributed to far more than just 5 goals.

I imagine you have just looked at the stats rather than watching his actual performances if you don't think he has done well.

Herbie - MBD and myself have both commented on Southampton and Pelle. But to be fair to Ken he did say "Biggest Transfers" in his op, I don't think anybody on here would have considered Sakho or Pelle as big name signings initially.

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28 Nov 2014 09:41:27
Yeah the OP was about the so called stellar signings for the biggest money
I would like to reserve judgement on the lokes of pelle sakho and many others until the have achieved it for a season or more. EPL history is littered with one season / half season wonders Cisse, benteke, darren bent, demba ba, .

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Oh but Beast I have seen him play for Arsenal, and he has done exactly what he has done for us for the last number of years: looked promising on occasions, performed decently in most games, but ultimately wasted more opportunities than he created or put away. The main job of a striker is to score, especially when you're playing for a club with one up front with a lack of genuine goal scorers.

But hey don't listen to me, hear from the man himself.

Welbeck said, "At the time I was playing on the left wing a lot and in a 4–4-2, which is very difficult for me because I can’t make an impact on the game. I can play it to the best of my ability but that’s not best for the team, and I could make a bigger impact playing in my preferred position."

And

“It is well known I prefer to play through the middle, so when I get my opportunity I just want to show what I can do. Once I get into the box and I'm getting the opportunities, I have got faith in my ability. Before, I wasn’t getting into the box because I wasn’t playing too much as a striker and I had to worry about my defensive work."

That sounds like a man arguing that if you play him centrally he will start scoring. Now after a prolonged run of games as a striker he has scored in just three games and his manager is about to drop him or shift him to the wing. His performances tell the same story, he has had plenty of chances but more often than not failed to deliver. It's a damning enditment of his time as a striker that RVP, a player having his worst ever season has still scored more EPL goals than Welbeck. You're the only person who could look at Welbeck's start at Arsenal and call it a success. Welbeck has done exactly what he is capable of doing, average.

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You make some good points Danny, but I do think he has done well. He had to get used to playing week in week out again and settling into a new system and style, he has set-up goals, made numerous other contributions, his movement alone enables players like Sanchez to flourish easier. Don't get me wrong I don't think Welbeck is the long term answer to our problems.

When you look at RVP and how static he has been, he almost damages the rest of the team with his lack of mobility or not pressurising the opposition. ADM and Rooney would be more effective with a willing runner upfront, moving defenders about like Welbeck.

We all have different views on what constitutes a good striker, but I would rather Danny Welbeck than RVP. The problem was LVG made his decision based on "records", not on overall contribution now and versatility - RVP is undoubtedly a classy player, but you see glimpses of that now as opposed to any consistency. Danny will never be as good as RVP in his pomp, but he has done far better than RVP this season and he has had to bed into a new team.

As people say though Welbeck wanted to start upfront, and he isn't good enough to do that for us. But he is now better than the person who has been starting upfront which is my major gripe. Not to mention wages, local lad, etc

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Just a question
How do you determine a Big/Stellar signing? For instance>>>
Herrera
Balotelli
Lovern
Blind
Rojo
Welbeck
All cost under 20 mill, would they be classed as big/stellar signings or is it simply because they went to bigger or more fasionable clubs?
I have no doubt in my mind that to West Ham fans Sakho was a big/stellar signing, same as Pelle to Southampton.

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For me its a grey area Herbie. I suppose it's a combination of big money and/or notoriety. Personally I hadn't heard much of Sakho or Pelle before they signed, but I am not majorly up on European football anymore.

Generally who the press write most about get the most attention and all those players you mention were written about extensively and talked about in football shows for one reason or another (typically who they are signing for), so they would be what most people call Big Signings - always exceptions of course and the better informed would introduce more names etc. For example look at Leicester with Cambiasso, incredible coup for me but not talked about a lot because its Leicester and he is old now.

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27 Nov 2014 12:07:33
I don't mean to bring up bad memories or anything, but we are yet again linked with Sneijder who looks certain to leave Galatassary as they aren't paying him. Now, would he be that stupid of a signing? He is 30 and comes with experience, his passing range is fantastic and would bring back a bit of Scholesy. In a midfield 3 he would be fine and as he ages I imagine he will sit deeper anyway as Scholes did. If you put him in a midfield three with say Di Maria and Blind or Carrick I think we would see him dictating games. He would also not cost a great deal and the revenue could be raised from the sale of Mata who to be honest I don' t think has that bright a future here.

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Not for me Fresh - he can't play for Galatasary and is very slow, we need pace and presence more than anything. I watched him carefully during the World Cup as I thought LVG would bring him in pre-season. He did nothing every game, aside from score a vital goal which frankly could have been anybody scoring it.

3 years too late for him. Even Mata does more.

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Even for a deep role? There is no doubting his passing ability but I agree that in terms of being a number 10 he is finished.

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Nah not even deep for me mate. I think he wouldn't be effective enough. Sneijder in his pomp needed a lot of movement around him this is our biggest deficiency.

We have too many players that lack urgency, Carrick, Blind, Fellaini, Mata, RVP even Januzaj to a degree, the last thing we need is another plodder in the centre of midfield - they all are comfortable on the ball, but they aren't willing to make incisive runs without it.

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How did Ed007 allow a post about Sniejder through?

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{Ed007's Note - It wasn't me!}

27 Nov 2014 18:15:47
I agree with beast. There's a lot of pass but not enough move.

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With all the rumors linking us to players who just sit in the middle, I sometimes wish we had bought Alexis Sanchez.
A dynamic hard working player who plays on the wing and scores a lot of goals too.

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