Manchester United Banter Archive October 27 2013

27 Oct 2013 23:06:23
Amazing when you think of some of the gems that we have let go, Pogba being the main one but a special word for Zoran Tosic who seems to be blossoming. He scored against City on mid week and scored a hat trick this weekend. A brillianteft foot, I think he would have a place in the squad if he were still here. He is far superior to Young!

28 Oct 2013 08:36:02
He would never have succeeded here, even the training was too physical for him let alone the matches. He was very light weight, apparently we put him on the bulk up program but he was lazy with it and when it became apparent that he wouldn't gain the strength needed he was let go. Its a shame but sometimes players just can't make it at a club and they need to move on to blossom.

Ravel for example would never have been able to make it at our club due to outside influances.

Forlan couldn't get enough games with us yet become one of the worlds best srrikers after his move to Spain.

I expect something similar will happen with Hernandez, a season after he leaves there will be many coming on here bemoaning the fact we let him go.

I think you are right Shappy, but I posted last week asking why so many good, technical players don't make it here. I think the answer is because of what I call English Football Syndrome No its not a medical condition lol). In this country we put the onus on size, strength and fitness. Technical ability seems to come last. I think there is a strong argument that, if he were English, Lionel Messi would never have made it as a footballer. He would have probably been over looked or disguarded from a young age for being too small and lightweight. This is in my opinion, and many will agree, why our national teams is so poor, and has been for a long time. When players like Carlton Palmer win more caps that players like Matt LeTissier, it is obvious something is wrong with our game.
United have obviously had, and have, good technical players but many fall by the wayside in favour of hard working players. The likes of Arsenal, City, Chelsea and even Swansea are changing this, and it is showing us up big time. I know we still need players to do the "dirty work", or the water carriers as you referred to recently, but having 8 9 or 10 of them in a team of 11 will not win you trophies any more. Like I said, we do have good players, but it is about time we started appreciating them a bit more and using them to better effect. Perhaps them we can see some decent football, and teams will fear us again, because at the moment many teams feel they can out play us. Moyes seems more worried about what the opposition can do, rather than playing to our own strengths. I think Sydney! said the other day, attack is the best form od defence.

28 Oct 2013 12:02:45
Betty your right about there being too much onus put on young players physical ability and not enough put on technical ability but there are mitigaiting circumstances which make it difficult for clubs to work on the technical side.

The main one being that the game in england is far to rough to allow physically weak young players get competitvie game time. In professional football there is still that sunday league mentality that if a youngers more talented player shows you up then you kick him and bring the whipper snapper down to size.

Unfortunately that is deeply keyed into the british mentality, and will only be breed out over time with the implementation of stricter rules from grass roots level right the way up.

People on this site bemoan Cleverley and his lack of creative spark, yet when he first broke into the team that wasn't a problem. Yet when he showed up Kevin Davies he got taken out and sustained a serious injury. And you can argue he hasn't been the same since. Now you can't just say that that tackle destroyed him but it has set him back by more than a year in his development and has effected his mental state when playing the game.

And its not an iscolated inccident, look how long it has taken Aaron Ramsey to get back on track after his injury.

Look at how many injuries Jack Wilshere and Jack Rodwell have suffered due to their exposure to first team football at a young age.

Look how it curtaintailed Micheal Owens career. Its not by chance that all the british players who play first team football at an early age tend to suffer injury problems. These injuries are a direct result of the physical nature of the game in england and early exposure to it while your body is still growing and developing.

So clubs look to combat this by spending a large proportion of the time they are allowed with the young players working on fitness and building up their physical attributes to help them cope with the pace and power of english football.

Until the FA change the way games are refereed in england then there will always be a problem with the technical ability of young players coming through from youth level.

I don't disagree with any off that Shappy, that was the point of my post. We need to change the way we view the so called beautiful game in this country. Its sad that a hard, maybe even dirty tackle in this country gets a bigger cheer than a brilliant piece of skill. This idea that the EPL is the best league in the world is rubbish. It may be the most entertaining, but the standard of football is at times shocking, even from the so called top teams.
Having said all that, some teams are trying to play good football, and allow their more creative players to express themselves. Some of the best players in the country are still perhaps a bit lightweight, but still have a big influence on our game. There are too many to name, but the likes of Carzola, David Silva, Oscar, Hazard, Juan Mata are all top players. Even Januzaj is making his mark, even at 18.
If we are to move forwards and remain at the elite end of the game, we need to see more skill and technical ability, and more pace to our game. But I do agree with you, it is difficult for clubs to use young creative players when they just get kicked off the park by some shaven headed, tattooed thug dressed up as a footballer.

Things have changed an awful lot over the past 3 or 4 years all the way down to grass roots level. Technical ability is by far the main concern now and kids are coached completely differently as a result .

Jred, I know we are trying to improve coaching ar grass roots level. The FA and even the government have put a lot of money into football academies.But none of that is filtering through yet. The fact remains that when players get to senior level, the big strong lads get picked over smaller more technically gifted players all too often. It doesn't really matter what happens at grass roots level if professional clubs still look for size and strength over technical ability.

Betty
Like who which big strong lads have broke in to the England or United team lately
Adan cleverly rafa .
Aoc, Townsend sterling .
Look at the size of the arsenal team .
Or mata hazard Oscar at Chelsea
Couthinho sturrage Suarez at Liverpool .

Jred, I, m not going to get into a silly arguement or come out with any nonsence like "how much football do you actually watch" or "have you played the game". If you read my posts properly, you will see that I have already mentioned some of the players that you just have. I also said that some of our top sides are trying to play more skillful and technical football. I am talking about English football in general, not just the top teams in the EPL. My point was that English football is well known the world over for being fast and ferocious. What it sometimes lacks in skill it makes up for in entertainment. You cannot possibly deny that many teams at all levels in this country sacrifice skillful players for bigger stronger and fitter players. How many truly world class players do we really produce in this country? How many English players go abroad and are really successful? How often do England win comfortably again mediocre oposition, let alone win tournaments?
I agree, we are finally trying to do something about it, but it will realistically take a few years for them to come through. For many managers, skillful players are seen as a luxury af they have a more hardworking alternative. Until that mentallity changes, a lot of young skillful players will continue to fall by the wayside in this country.

Betty
I find your views outdated.
By about 10 years .
Have I played the game, yes
And I can tell you first hand things are different now

29 Oct 2013 09:48:51
I agree that in the last few seasons we have seen abit of a shift in the top flight, but we are a long way off of be a country that has a focus on the technical side more than the physical side.

Take DDG comments for example, he said that he has been in the gym more in his short time in England than he has in all his time in Spain.

One of the first things we do when a small or small framed player joins is to put them on an intensive stengthening program to build them up.

Its happened with DDG, and Hernandez and its happening with Kagawa.

They are deemed not physically strong enough to cope with the league, and to a certain extent that is true. DDG has come on leaps and bounds since he added a few pounds of muscle.

There is still a.strong focus on physical ability in England, amd this comes from the way that physicallity is allowed by the refs and the FA.

The premier league has more impact injuries than any other top flight league, and because of this clubs need their players to have a minimal amount of strength or risk them getting repeated injuries.

I do feel the FA are trying to slowly remove the physical nature of our league thus allowing more focus on technical abilities. But while teams are allowed to physically bully other technically supirior teams then the battle between physicality over technical quality will always be won by the athelete.

Call me what you want mate, but there are none so blind as those who don't want to see. I agreed with you that we are trying to change the game for the better in this country, but it will take a generation of young footballers before we see the full benefits at senior level. Yes, there are some coming through like you mentioned, but they are still few and far between compared to other countries. Look at the standard of football down through the leagues, and watch youth football. Under 14's, 15's and 16's are still packed with young lads who are 6"2 and can run all day long. These lads then get picked when they move up to senior because they can handle the physical side of the game better. I still play, and I can tell you first hand this is still the case for the majority of teams.
Anyway, let's just agree to differ and move on.

Speed and technical ability are far further up the wish list now never mind under 16s or 14 look at the work that is being done at under 8, 6.
Over the last 10 15 year it's changed so much you wouldn't recognize it and that's not just at a professional level, over the last 5 years it's filtered all the way down to schools and local team.
You say it will take a generation before we see the benefits but I would have to strongly disagree as we are seeing the benefits right now

27 Oct 2013 20:19:35
In the end a decent win and a fighting performance by the team. Still worries though, poor defence, awful Nani and a confusion about what Rooney and Kagawa were doing.
Watched the Chelsea/Man City game this afternoon and both teams have so much quality, the brilliant Mata didn't even get off the bench. The real worry for me though was how influential Jose Mouriniho clearly is. I supported the appointment of Moyes and thought Jose to be a troublesome flyby night, but now I'm not too sure. Did we appoint the right manager? Only time will tell.

27 Oct 2013 19:02:24
Kloot

How about now?

Haven't seen KLOOT on here for a while, actually.

I miss the buck eejit. Probably planning the Glazer's downfall as we speak.

In case anyone was wondering, I was referring to whether Kloot would still take Hart over De Gea.

G.A.G.U.S.

The transformation of both has been incredible. Hart has completely lost it, some of his errors are bordering on comical. What on Earth was he doing yesterday?

Good job for England hodgson has been bringing on an alternative keeper in case there is a problem with hart.

27 Oct 2013 14:48:37
Not many mentions on the site with regards to Woodwards interview with the United We Stand fanzine. Does explain lack of transfers etc and well worth a lot of the posters on here seeking it out.

Red Snapper

I wrote a long post which included his quotes and some thoughts but it does not appear to have been published. One thing he said was

"All we try to do is pay the right amount for a player. We’ll pay a bit more within a range like we did with Fellaini, but we weren’t willing to go to 36m euros with Herrera."

I was particularly interested in that comment about paying within a range. It also makes me wonder if Moyes chose Herrera and then the club didn't support him because it wasn't in the "range". I felt there was a glass ceiling in summer and this seems to support that.

The interview is mostly just more excuses for the embarrassment that was the transfer window. We already knew that Moyes scrapped SAF's targets, that Cesc used us for leverage with Barca, and that we refused to meet Herrera's buy out.

But I do agree with Red Man that there is some sort of cap on transfers. However, we also need to remember that Woodward and Moyes were the ones who talked about unlimited budgets and bringing in world class players. Even this interview is full of allusions to bringing in top class players. In other words, Woodward is still trying to sell the lie that the Glazers are willing to splash the cash. He's a Glazer man through and through, and I doubt every word that comes from his mouth.

The proof is, unfortunately, in the pudding. And at the moment we are getting served up humble pie by some of the most average teams in the league. Our first team lacks genuine quality in some key areas, veterans haven't been replaced, we have a completely unproven (cheap) manager, and our big signing isn't even good enough to play ahead of a 39 year old winger and Tom Cleverly. Woodward will continue to talk up potential transfers, but at the crunch time he will still low ball selling clubs as we slip further and further behind Europe's elite. But it's okay because Glazer profits are growing and growing.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Danny. Good reply and the last paragraph sums up United / the Yanks perfectly. Think we are going downhill fast but the fat cats are getting fatter. I watched the MCFC/CFC match today. The midfield left ours for dead.

They would have spent big for a marketable name. Herrera didn't meet that yardstick. Forget whether he would have improved us, he wouldn't have sold the United brand to new untapped revenue streams.

Now Moyes has chance to put proper plans in place I expect the next two windows to go his way. The failure last summer will get him more leverage when he gives his targets up to Woodward. Woodward can't fail like that again, he'll have to deliver.

And our squad is not useless, it has many quality players who are improving all the time. We're missing a couple of midfielders with genuine pace and creativity, and a left back.

Exactly Danny. And for all the talk about how good City and Chelsea are at the moment, they're hardly out of reach.

City are two points ahead of us last time I looked. A whole 2 points.

Still early season, but the performances have not given much hope as the shape and tactics are not right in most cases.
But somehow we are dragging wins out of some games. City aren't the yardstick as they're not winning the league, arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool are the leading three. If it was only one team that is leading by a long way, then they could be caught, but we have three very good teams, improving teams, who are 6-8 points ahead of us, with a much better goal difference. You expect that one or two might not last, but not all three teams.

Spot on Nomidfield. We can't peg back all of the SEVEN teams in front of us. League's gone already which is depressing on 28Oct but realistic too. Doh!

27 Oct 2013 13:33:42
Can anyone see a scenario where Bale flops in Madrid and we move for him in either a year or two? I'm just speculating here but could anyone see this happen?

Would rather get ronaldo

I would be willing to bet Levy has a clause of some sort with regards to selling to any other BPL team.

When you pay 90m for a player I doubt you would let the other team have any clauses regarding who you could sell too.

27 Oct 2013 12:33:30
Some people didn't want the signing of Alexis Sanchez on here? Did you see his goal yesterday? Totally world class, I doubt he will be allowed to leave Barca anyway.

Even if young scored hattrick, I'd still be happy to let him go Fresh! ;)

27 Oct 2013 11:35:10
I know that it's commonly considered to be one of the two bright points in our season regarding Rooney's form (the other Juanjuz). But I have a big issue with Rooney that is separate from his obvious attempts to undermine the club in the Summer, again.

Watching Rooney he seems to be everywhere demanding the ball and hungry, playing nice raking balls and re-gathering a yard of pace that I thought had gone for good. Sounds great.

However - because he is here there and everywhere he is leaving our team very open to the counter attack and also is contributing massively to our lack of creativity. Obviously there will be numerous examples of where this point doesn't stand up (mostly when he is attacking), but on the whole, he is creating a bit of chaos, taking up other players positions so they move to areas they aren't comfortable in (leaving their men and running around without knowing where they should go), also because everything is coming through him, there is only a limited option of passes available when he gets the ball, which means we are back to sidewaysville.

As the player in the hole he is dropping far too much and is making our other midfielders roles redundant as the likes of Fellaini, Carrick, Cleverly will rarely go beyond Rooney - they don't have the legs or permission to do this it seems. So whilst he is busy playing quarter back, there are very few options for him to throw the ball to, so we end up playing this sideways game. It is not his fault that the players he is playing with don't know what to do, but that is the fact of matters, he is playing with sub par players and he is making things worse.

It's almost as if he has been given a green light to do whatever he wants, like Ronaldo & Messi have, but those two play in the final third mostly and it's rare you see them dropping into the anchor role to pick up the ball because it then slows down the whole game and they have players that perform that role.

Couple this with Carrick in midfield, we are creating our own problems and I think much if it is to do with this free role that Rooney has, our deficiencies elsewhere don't allow for this to happen effectively. We are very slow as a result.

I think he should let the midfielders play and stick to trying make things happen in the final third, at times we have 5 midfielders in a line 10 yards in front of our back 4 and just RVP static 50 yards ahead.

Just an observation that I think isn't being picked up on in the main. Sometimes you have to sacrifice what looks like our best player for the sake of the team as a whole. I know a lot of you will say he is our one best player and we would be awful without him, but I genuinely think that he is a major reason we are so slow, too much goes through him and we don't have the players to help.

I think it also doesn't help how the Summer went and players thinking that it's double standards and why the hell should he be given all this special treatment when he is treating the club like rubbish - RVP & Hernandez don't seem happy and this will be contributing as they are model professionals, nobody is bigger than Utd we have all been told, but it seems Rooney is!

What a load of rubbish .
Yesterday he was one of the only people who wanted the ball made him self available and tried to do something with it. Maybe if other players where doing the same the whole team would be doing well.
Last season rvp carried us was that to the detriment of the team as well.
If Carrick cleverly were playing as well as rooney would there be any need for him to drop deep.
Or is our team that tactically inept that they can't handle a number 10 coming deep.
If you want to sacrifice rooney for the sake of the team you must be nuts how you can think united would of played better this season with out him is mental

I think Rooney goes looking for the ball because he has to, he knows there'll be nothing creative coming from the midfield.

It is not table football, movement is good, interchange of positions is good.

Good players know how to drop into a defensive setup by looking at who is around them and spotting the gaps and dangerous opponents.

Modern football is not paint by numbers, and Rooney on top form is the catalyst for excellent interchange and movement.

Jred - I knew you would flip but think about it a bit more mate.

Pretty much everyone complains about how slow we are moving from defence to attack and how uncreative we are and a massive factor in that is the lack of options we have when we have the ball. Therefore as you acknowledge that Rooney is dropping deep to get the ball because our midfielders do nothing, that proves my point! He can't pass it to himself and RVP is swamped, therefore the only options are side to side and back. Our midfield have no room because he pulls defenders into their space.

RVP stuck to his position last season and Rooney was a bit part. I'd rather have a firing RVP than a school playground Wayne Rooney. Look at how we are playing as a collective, some small part of that has to do with the resurgence of Wayne Rooney.

My point is that Rooney playing well is agreed by everyone - but Rooney playing well means the other 10 players don't (maybe). I'd rather the team upped their performance collectively and sacrificed Wayne Rooney, because he demands too much and it doesn't compliment what we have in the team.

A key difference this season in terms of players is Rooney is playing and dominating the ball. We are not creating chances as a by-product of that in my opinion.

Mr sween
Honestly pal I like a good debate as most of the regulars will know but my god you don't have a clue so there really is no point .

27 Oct 2013 10:59:31
Imo we are in need of 3 players and these signings I believe will complete our team.

Leighton baines- perfect player for us, can get goals, actually defend and will provide assists and the width if we play 4-3-1-2

Luka modric-imo after fabregas he is the perfect signing. He can pass the ball and create chances and keep a high tempo which we are lacking in midfield to occupy kags and rooney. Fellaini and carrick are too slow.

Hummels- no doubt we are in need of a better cb. Most of our problems lies within defence shown by how many we have conceded. We need a definite pair in cb like the rio and vidic days to help de gea also. He has a different pairing every week which can't be easy for him

4-3-1-2

De gea baines hummels vidic rafael carrick fellaini modric kagawa rooney rvp

We have been crying out for a Modric for years. Even Scholes earmarked him as his long-term replacement. The club need to sign that elusive midfielder or we will continue to struggle in midfield. We have also needed a new LB for the past three seasons, but still haven't sorted it. I cannot believe that we are into season four where we have needed a LB and central midfielder. If I could see that Fellaini wasn't the midfielder that we needed and I could see that we are missing a Thiago in the side, then why can't Moyes?

Trumours

your saying sign these players then u go on to talk about wit but with modric and kagawa were is the wit u just named 4 central players to play in our midfield

27 Oct 2013 13:00:24
Bearing in mind that David De Gea is Madrids No1 target to take over from Iker, he'll be gone in the summer with just two years left on his contract. What Real Madrid want they get.

Rooney will be off with Chico and the rest of your midfield options and wingers are pathetic and you think those 3 will do it.

Good luck with that.

Obviously u mean lopez Marcellus, but u knew that right?

Oi Wallace you person. De Gea has signed an extension till 2017. You are a closet united fan, you spend more time on here than on your own page.

What you worried about come on here banging your chops about us. Is it cause Chelsea are mourinhos fall back option.

or is that

'No amount of money could ever convince me to join Real Madrid' - David de Gea

27 Oct 2013 06:36:28
Couldn't see the match yesterday so was reading the live commentary on some app. Kagawa was mentioned only once and that too was just in the starting line up so can someone tell how he performed in the match. He played the full 90 minutes but judging by what I read he didn't touch the ball;)

He did nothing Raph, would barely have noticed him on the pitch to be honest. However that was a good thing compared to half of them who made mistake after mistake. Kagawa was anonymous unfortunately, more suited to European games.

Nzonzi looked like the best midfielder on the pitch! It was Schneiderlin/Llalana/Wanyama last week.

The drawback with Kagawa is he and Rooney were frequently trying to play in the same space, Kagawa is obviously a superb footballer if a bit light weight. His touch etc are very good and you can see he has huge talent.
I personally think he won't perform to his potential while we have Rooney and RVP in the team, so I see him leaving

I see Rooney going first, maybe Jan with Chelsea coming in with silly money.

Wouldn't be surprised if Moyes has said give me 4 months of everything Wayne and I'll let you go.

We are backing the wrong horse with Rooney - he has no loyalty to anybody but himself. Don't blame him as this is the way the world is now, but we shouldn't be planning around him and sacrificing key players to keep him from having a hissy fit again.

Sween

10 years with a club, with 9 of them being excellent and you talk about loyalty etc etc. Its funny how you think he will be sold in January. When we did not sell him after one of his "poorer" seasons, there is ZERO chances that we would sell him now. Like I commented that day, he is the only one who looks commited and arsed. May be for a change, get behind him and show some loyalty.

Deeps.

Show some loyalty to Wayne Rooney, haha! Pink - you must be one of these people in life that no matter how many times somebody let's you down you keep thinking they will change "let bygones be bygones". It's nice but it gets you nowhere. He has been below par for a lot of the past 4 years. He has treated our club like filth.

His new up-tempo performance has more to do with him wanting the best possible move than his love for the club, as it was a few years ago. Once bitten and all that.

Most people attribute our shocking performances to the new manager, I personally think the key thing that has changed is the performance of Rooney improving as an individual and rest of the team hurtling downwards! He was a bit part last year and we got results, he is the main man this year and where are Carrick, RVP - shadows because he upset the apple cart and eats their space.

We have been getting worse for years, but Rooney is the route cause to the starker decline we have witnessed recently as he doesn't fit in with the team and he demands so much of the ball.

Sween

Show some loyalty to the team, not WR. Because by backing him, you are backing a part of the team. Or is that too much to ask? Well in today's world, we have to live with "let bygones be bygones", otherwise you will end up supporting your sunday league side. Because by your logic, I should not have shown any loyalty to Keane, SAF, Evra, Vidic, RVN etc etc who at some point in their careers have wanted a move away.

Its not remotely funny that you single out our best performer and single him out as the reason we play like sh!t.

I will give you more logical and plausible reasons, not rants fuelled by your dislike for a player. Our midfield is p!ss poor and has been for 5 years, reason being SAF. RVP is looking a shadow of his former self. The reason for that is unknown, and if it is Rooney getting the spotlight, then I think RVP should go back to Arsenal. Our defence is shambles. We have Young, Valencia and others who are not contributing.

So good job done in singling Wayne out for the 99 problems that we have. Without him, we would have been in the bottom 3. Criticize a player when he isent doing well, but you are doing comes across as being bitter.

Deeps.

Pink - I do support us through thick and thin and I was cheering just as loud as anyone when Rooney scored. The whole point of this website is to point out problems, praise good performances and help identify things that you maybe hadn't thought of before.

I learn a lot from reading other peoples posts. I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but sometimes the ideas on here open up other areas of thought.

I know a lot about our problems and the majority are not to do with Rooney. However what can we change during the season? We can change the players in the first team squad and systems, we aren't going to change the manager or the backroom staff anytime soon, (I hope).

I have just noticed how much of the ball Rooney dominates and how much praise he is receiving. Yet we create very little. It could be a simple case that Rooney is having a negative impact on those players around him. With him scurrying around for the ball it is making our limited players even worse in my opinion.

If I were RVP I would be annoyed that I was sold the dream to play for Utd, we deliver that. Then Rooney can't handle it, asks to leave, new manager comes in and Rooney is the new best thing. Obviously he is playing well, but it does seem like we would move hell on earth for Rooney to stay - not the Utd way.

I'm not bitter about Rooney, I have said countless times that players can leave and ask to leave to better their careers and earn as much cash as they can, this is a job for them. He isn't even from Manchester. But what I don't want to do is close my eyes and pray things will turn out ok, I want to see why we are so limited in midfield we keep getting worse rather than better and it is the same squad as last season.

Maybe Moyes fault, maybe the players are coasting, aged etc, but maybe just maybe it has to do with the double standards Rooney has enjoyed and the seeming reward for holding the club over a barrel, that would hurt seasoned pro's like RVP especially. It sends out a message which conflicts with what SAF preached.

It's all if's but's and maybe's, but as the team gets worse Rooney is getting better - in any other industry you would look at that pattern and assess why! Sales going up, profits declining etc.

Pink - One more thing mate. I haven't been criticising Rooney, I'm criticising his play has on the team (potentially). He has looked like our best player by far, but I think this could be damaging our team as a collective.

Mata - Chelsea.

Most people disagree with Mourinho but he thinks the team play better when their best player over the past 2 seasons isn't playing. I think Mourinho has more qualifications than most to know what is right.

Sween

"Hurt seasoned pro's like RVP". What is it exactly that is hurting RVP? Or do we need to revisit history and actually ascertain that RVP had spent 8 long years at Arsenal kissing their badge and gesturing that the club is in his heart everytime he scored a goal. Look who he plays for now. Our fans will always say, he moved on to win things blah blah. Then we come back and like true hypocrits villify Rooney. RVP was extremely public in his disillusioned ways at Arsenal. Infact a press release + his personal website painted red with it. Now he as a model professional has a problem with Rooney playing well and taking the plaudits?

My stand here has always been, it is a source of their livelihood. Rooney is not from Manchester and is not obliged in any way, shape or form. But are you doing your best when you go out representing United? He is doing a mighty good job of it at present. During Rooney's time here, we have won 5 PL titles. So your example of "when he plays well, the team suffers" is not true.

My point is simple, let's criticize players when they are not upto it. But when we try to pull them down when they are fit and firing, that smacks of double standards. RVP has been here for only a season, he has no divine right to be treated like a demi god. He plays well, excellent, but when he does not, let's not use excuses like these to downplay poor performances.

Deeps.