Manchester United Banter Archive December 28 2013
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28 Dec 2013 22:36:44
Some reflections on recent games and what it means in terms of developing a squad that can challenge for Prem and Champs League, i.e. our gaps!
LB - Evra has been a superb servant for our club and let's not forget that but he is clearly past his best now and needs January replacement.
CB - Vidic too slow now especially if Moyes looking to have centre halves that can push up quickly. I'm not convinced by Smalling. Yet. Think Jones has a great future which I'd prefer to see as first choice CB so a pairing between him and Evans ideal but we need a 26/27yo immediate first teamer there IMO so there's sufficient quality back up /competition
CM - Carrick is another stalwart who like Vidic and Evra our recent successes have been built on but again he lacks required mobility now.
CM - I'm more of a fan than Cleverley than some as think when played more advanced he has more to offer. What we need in terms of competition and greater squad depth though is both a box to box player and someone with real creative flair
That's 4 replacements required before we even look at the forward line lol.
Young has improved recently but just as with Nani is there any real confidence in him putting more than 4/5 decent shifts in in a season? I've long been an admirer of Valencia in spite of only having a left leg to stand on. He too could find himself a casualty for someone who could play on either wing for example. It's Kagawa though that regrettably it's just not happening for at United.
As for Anderson don't even go there lol.
Moyes has a massive job on his hands. Whilst he would not have been my preferred choice the simple facts are that he's inherited a squad that if it's to challenge for top honours needs the following first team regulars under Fergies reign replacing:
Evra
Vidic
Ferdinand
Young
Nani
Giggs
Carrick
Kagawa
Anderson
That is some rebuild.
Realistically it will take 2 full years to effect by which time as a minimum you'd need an RVP replacement to add!
Carlsberg don't do Tall Orders but if they did.
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I'd keep Young as a squad player but the rest I agree and have posted the same. I also agree it needs to be done gradually 2 or maybe even 3 years. I really can't see Chico staying at his current level of playtime.
On the plus side 1 or 2 (wishful thinking on 2) top class signings in January (Koke speculation seems to be growing arms and legs) and the same in summer would keep us there or there about as we rebuild.
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28 Dec 2013 21:01:11
Hey all,
Just wanted to give some perspective here. We are in a transitional period and no that does not mean we are I decline or will fall from grace. However it does mean that we will have games when we don't perform to our best (however even with Fergie in charge we won scrappy when it mattered). If i'm honest and I hate to say it Fergie left Moyes with a poor squad. The first XI when fit are world beaters, but the back ups although better than most of the rest of the league can be seen as average. i'm not saying that on their day that can perform, as they weren't signed or brought through the ranks because their skills are lacking. However as we all know there are holes in our midfield, wings (especially the left) and I would even say we need one up front. So before people condem Moyes we should give him time to build his team and i'm sure in Jan he will do so. I also believe we will finish in the top 4, we may win the league bit 2nd or 3rd would be a very acceptable result given the massive void following Sir Alex. In the modern game people are too quick to pull the trigger and sack managers, however longevity will lead to further success however whatever happens we need to stick by the lads and sing with all our hearts. I Love United more than anything so please don't think otherwise, I just think a balanced view is needed right now.
Cheers Boys and Girls,
Solskjaer1999
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28 Dec 2013 20:30:09
Wins for Chelsea and Arsenal tomorrow and I think the chase for top 4 is well and truly back on, especially with injured players starting to now come back. Oh and what's the old saying?
Play badly and still winning is a sign of champions!
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Champions
Lmfao
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U think arsenal will be Malaga?
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Winning ugly is something needed to be champions, something arsenal have never mastered under wenger. i'd be happy with top 4 this season
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I think you will find, Malaga-Crooner, that we are EPL Champions. Fact.
The only titles you have won is years is the EPL top four championship, a trophy invented by Wenger to appease daft Arsenal fans. Next he'll insist they give trophies for forth.
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Top 4 has never been out mate no matter what the results are today. Some of the teams currently occupying those spots will be dropping down the standings and will have a struggle on their hands finishing top 4.
I would not worry about teams like Everton or Newcastle as they genuinely do not have enough to finish in the top 4. I think the same top 5 from last year plus liverpool will be fighting it out but in different order.
A couple of draws today will be ideal and hope stoke can manage a draw. I expect city to have a banana skin in the next couple of weeks and so will chelsea.
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I must admit gcu I've been a bit worried these past few months of even reaching top 4. Just seemed as though everything was going wrong, with injuries, results, style of play but it really feels like we've turned a corner now. I knew moyes would come good, I was one of the few who actually wanted him to get the job.
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28 Dec 2013 19:43:56
Listen to you lot!
2 games in 2 days
Norwich are a scrappy team and we had a tired and rotated team
Can I say yes evra was bad and the rest of team but your lot bias is ridiculous worst player today was carrick by a country mile please watch the game back because I watched it! he is coming back from injury so is understandable but he was awful
Kagawa won't ever be any good while we can't pass between our selves and play with flow!
Im happy with the scrappy win we had loads of them under fergie it shows grit and courage also our players did play bad but playing bad and winning is a sign of a good team and if moyes wins next 2 pl games ill have complete faith we can make top 4
enjoy new years day utd utd
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28 Dec 2013 18:57:48
Of course a win is the most important thing at the end of the day but that's an appalling display from the lads out there. We're a team playing with no steel or creativity and it shows in almost every game.
The back four were disgraceful today. Evra got roasted in the first half and neglected his defensive duties. Evans and Vidic couldn't find one United player with any pass, short or long and Smalling is not a right back (Not entirely his fault but he was still poor).
Cleverley offers nothing to the team. Being able to recycle the ball 5 yards to the side or backwards is not a skill nor is it talent.
Carrick was short on match fitness. I feel sorry for Kagawa being played in a team that can't string two passes together. Giggs didn't play well.
Young is a disaster. Cross after cross wasted. Do players not look up and try and pick out a player with a cross anymore or are they just happy to get it past the first man.
The worst part of today was the amount of times we just cleared it down the pitch back to the Norwich defense. Nobody looking up to pick a pass, just hoof it clear. It must have happened at least 15-20 times today. And last but not least, a Manchester United side going to the cornerflag in the 88th minute is a disgrace. I think our team is slowly gaining the characteristics of our manager which is defensive, long ball, work rate over technical ability hanging on for a 1-0 win.
When we get our big guns back let's see how we play, but for now we need a few players exiting and one or two signings.
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Seriously that's what you took from today? the Back 'four' where disgraceful? what were you watching? Vidic was a Beast Evans Faultless and Smalling played well in a position which was not his best.
I agree Giggs was not as creative as we come to expect, Cleverley was missing in the first half, There was no creativity I agree but Chico is dire target man and should not have been played there. We could not push down the wings as usual as we lacked the Cover at the back.
Today was a dire display but to call the players disgraceful bit much. Young, Who I want gone as much as the next fan actually was one of our brightest players on the pitch.
To expect Kagawa to adapt like Rooney is sorry to say Dumb. He is not a Left Winger and can not adapt to it. Rooney is one of the best All round players in the world, He can adapt but don't expect every player to be like him. Kagawa Plays Number 10 and he does it well, He is not as solid or sure footed as rooney though. I am not convinced he will cope with the EPL but I'd like to see him given a decent run. Adnam Could have played on the left and Dropping Giggs would have let him play his Role and given him chance, He holds the ability to unlock a back line with his passing. But also can you blame him for being out of confidence? out of lack practice?
It just seems you are far to Keen to get on the team. Like everyone one of us that watched it I was disappointed but given the injuries and seeing Rooney was not playing We all knew it was going to be tough.
Lets prey for a LB and a creative CM in Jan and they best not be more Squad players.
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Drats. I included the comparison to Rooney in this response but it was the Guy below XD lol I got all mixed up but the point remains XD
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I'm not blaming the players defensive abilities I'm disgusted with the hoof ball tactics from both Evans and Vidic which just invite pressure. When Vidic plays we also sit too deep. We must be the only team in the country were a player can stroll to the edge of our box without a challenge.
Obviously I'd take a scrappy 1-0 win all day but it doesn't mean the team played well and are above criticism!
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Unfortunatly the lack of outlets and players showing. Fair play to Norwich also for pushing, I hated that Time wasting tactics at the end though, That free kick with a few to go should have been whipped in not played into the corner. That I hated alot.
I feel Smalling and Evans are the best combo we have in the center, Vidic is just so slow now. Probably why we were set so deep. However Even when we kept the ball as in the first 15mins, we kept it well but still did not create Toffee. We need that Spark, We should not have to force our striker into the Mid as he is the only guy who can produce a final ball or create something. That is the most disappointing thing for me today, Not the fact Evra is Long gone, or the time wasting. But the Fact we can not create a thing. If its true we turned down Ozil then MY Lord. As it stands today there was noone who could open them up. Kagawa is lost on the Left, Young should just find himself lost somewhere. Chico is just one dimensional. Giggs was ment to be the spark but Age got to him today and carrick is getting back to match fit. Cleverly Demonstrated he struggles in that advanced role in the Middle in the first Half. Or that is where I assume he was ment to be. I don't recall seeing him do anything at all though for the first 45 ;)
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28 Dec 2013 18:44:34
Guys, I really hate to say it but I think that's it for kagawa, games like today always pass him by and he wasn't in it much at all! These are the games he need to take charge in and make things happen like Rooney does! I don't think we can blame it on him not being used as a number 10 because the best players can adapt there game, like we see in Rooney when he drops into midfield or when he was used from the left!
Now onto the game, I think it's one of those games which we might look at in May and be thankful for that win! Must say Danny Welbeck is proving he is united quality in great form right now and took his goal very well! It wasn't easy to watch by any means and evra near gave me a heart attack but we dug in and got the result which was the most important thing. That's 6 wins on the spin for us now!
Finally I think we can all agree like moyes said De Gea has saved us many points this season and he's probably done the same today. What a keeper he is.
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Unfortunately for all the reasons I've mentioned before I don't think kags will make it at United.
Our last 6games we have got beat of Everton and newcastle and beat villa Norwich hull and west ham, I'm not sure if we played any better in the games we won than the ones we lost.
We need to improve to make top 4
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28 Dec 2013 20:59:14
If the midfield don't get the ball to him what can do.
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It's not just about giving him the ball and standing back - we need players who pass and make runs and angles.
Convinced that a front four of RVP, Rooney, Januzej and Kags could be incredible with a couple of decent centre mids behind them.
Imagine two of Vidal, Gundogan and Cabeye behind that lot, that would be a UCL challenging team in my opinion.
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It's tough because kagawa is not a winger and 90% o the time he is asked to play in that position which is made even worst by the fact that he's struggling to adapt to the physicality of the PL and also the slower tempo, possession game we play as opposed to the style he was used to at Dortmund. I feel bad for the guy because he's obviously got no confidence, he misses three games on the trot then is thrown in and everyone expects so much of him. He's a great player, anyone who watches Japan regularly can see what he could offer our team IF he was managed right but I think ever since he joined he hasn't been.
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28 Dec 2013 18:33:15
"He has an abductor injury to his groin. It's not serious and I think he'll be fit for New Year's Day"
"Ideally we'd have given him two or three weeks to recover completely. But he has been so influential for the team."
Moyes on rooney, bit of a chance because if it goes he will be out for a month
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It is a risk. We really need a bit of luck at the moment. We have been very unlucky with injuries this season so far. I think a win against Spurs will put us on track, but to win we need our best players playing and that is Van Persie and Rooney.
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28 Dec 2013 18:21:40
Banter I guess
I'll take the 3 points but not fun to watch. Not a great display, Rooney was missed, De Gea was key in first half, Welbeck looks a new man of late, playing with confidence and did well when he came on. Young, what can I say; He was our best outfield player til Welbeck came on, that is not saying much though but still fair play. Kagawa you are not winning Moyes over with that display. Most Worrying Norwich Highlighting how badly we need a New LB XD
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28 Dec 2013 17:02:22
Just a few whinge posts during the game then. That's 6 wins in a row, weakened team, 2 days after the last game, huge travelling in between but still some fans want to bitch during the game. Evra is getting on, we all know and accept that. But he is captain, a warrior and leaves everything on the pitch. I didn't get to watch the game today and had to make do with the radio commentary where they said Evra had a good game. Hey, you see what you want to see I guess.
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I actually watched the game AJH and the two commentators and myself seen a dreadful display by Evra. You cannot fault our captain's loyalty, but as a defender he is pitiful. But we scraped through and we won and that's all that matters. Spurs up next and we need to see RvP and Rooney and Ev will need to play much much better.
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I saw it AJH and he didn't have a good game first half Snodgrass took the pi$$ out of him
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A win is a win and I thought Vidic was excellent today. Evra, however, was less than good and we could easily have dropped points because of him.
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He talks like a warrior but unfortunately that's where the comparison ends.
Sometimes when he is out of position its like he cannot even be bothered trying to get back into position as for tracking runners or competing for headers while defending a corner (against Hull) non existent.
I too watched the game and he was his usual p1ss poor defensively.
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Good result and three more points than we got last year. Best player? De gea. Best keeper in the prem.
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Could even put him in the best in the world list now Red Snapper. World class most definitly
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28 Dec 2013 17:01:50
Big big win. Gritty performance and 3 points on the board that is all that matters at the moment. Just need to keep chipping away now and who knows? We got players coming back and nice momentum gathering for us
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28 Dec 2013 16:56:33
Goal action. Very very important win for us. As they all are lol. No Rooney and no RVP has us all worrying but got the result and from where we are in the league that's all that matters at moment.
Newcastle and Chelski draws next please Santa!
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28 Dec 2013 16:47:56
Well could of been better but nice to gets the points, could do with a Newcastle win and a Chelsea draw tomorrow
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Totally agree. It is games like these you have to win and we are starting to put a run together.
Is valencia suspended for the next game as well?
Onwards and upwards.
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We done what needed to be done end of, and we could do with Newcastle draw there still above us
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Gcu
I don't think so
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It could have been better, but I thought it may end up being a shaky performance without Rooney. His name being on the teamsheet alone improves our performances. Good to see Carrick & Vidic return. Add Rooney, Rafael, Jones, Valencia & Van Persie and we may begin to look like the MU of last season again. Add a few players between now and September and we should improve on last season's performances. It's clear where we are struggling. A Newcastle win and a Liverpool loss or draw will be great, but I think Jose's negativity may bite him on the arse tomorrow.
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Kate, Newcastle are not a threat to us in the long run, so a Newcastle win is what we want, a draw would be good too, but a win would be magnificent for us.
Valencia got two yellows so will play against Spurs. So him and Rooney have had a nice rest. let's hope Rooney takes things easy with his groin. Please let RvP be fit.
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{Ed004's Note - Yeah syd but he picked up his fifth booking (& 6th) so I think it's 2 games he misses. Hopefully Rafael is back along with Rooney and RVP}
004, Valencia's ban ended today. I checked the FA suspensions database. I think after Christmas the yellow card bans are at 10 yellows.
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Agree with you on the long term threat from Newcastle Sydney but I don't see Arsenal as that much more of a threat this season I expect them to have a bad run and we move past them I think Liverpool and City are going to be our main threats for the title with city maybe to far gone with what they have got to catch now, but I can see Chelsea trying to buy there way to the title but it will not work this time as its jan not summer and can see them finishing fifth with jose getting the sack well before the summer fingers crossed ( I hate that Jose lol )
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28 Dec 2013 16:28:49
That first goal shows Welbecks confidence this season.
Had this been last season he would have just ran into the keeper and then dived in hope of a penalty.
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28 Dec 2013 16:12:22
Didnt think I would say this but i'd prefer Fabio ahead of Evra.
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28 Dec 2013 15:58:44
Wayne is writing his next contract. United are awful without him. Evra has to go, not 1 midfielder can pick a forward pass and Chicho can't play as lone striker. Where is Januzaj, where is Zaha? At least they can attack!
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28 Dec 2013 15:45:50
Evra has been out of position and given the ball away far too often, however Vidic is having a great game!
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28 Dec 2013 15:26:56
Watching today's game is another showing of how poor our midfield is. But the most glaring area of issue is left back and right back. We are so poor there.
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I agree. I said creating chances today will be difficult and it is turning out that way so far. We are way too static and slow and need to pick up the pace. We have nothing down the right wing and I think Janusaj and welbeck will be coming on.
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Can't Say I agree with Right Back at all. Rafael Is a very good first choice RB with the Likes of Jones and Smalling Very Good stand ins. Smalling had a Good game today I thought and Actually managed a few Dangerous Crosses though no one on the end but that sums up the lack of anything we had going forward really.
But Evra as much as I admire the Guy, As everyone can realise he has great passion and gives his all, However Is getting carved apart every game and out of position.
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28 Dec 2013 14:55:13
Reports moyes has rested rooney, if that's true he's taken a massive gamble
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Moyes has confirmed Rooney has had a recurrence of his groin injury. He may be back for the Spurs game. If he was being rested he would be on the bench.
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Syd
Your quite right far to important to rest
Thank God we didn't sell him
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It would have been pretty dumb to sell Rooney without buying quality players first.
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Syd
Such as?
Are u still a bit gutted we didn't sell him
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It would be very dumb to sell Rooney even if we signed Messi Sydney!
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Jred, at the time we were bidding for Cesc. I think Cesc, Reus & Baines would have been sufficient. However in hindsight RvP has been injured and Rooney would have been needed. I was never a "bit gutted" we never sold Rooney. I believed he would be sold, I believed SAF wanted him sold and I believe he would have joined Chelsea. He still might. Rooney is a top player like I have always said, but I still believe we have seen the best of him ;)
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Bidding for cesc? I think u may of went on about selling him all season.
But let's leave it at that I think we discussed rooney enough last season and prob bored everyone to death
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You can only sell a player during the transfer window. I said I believed Rooney could be sold in the summer and I believed SAF wanted him sold, but there was no way I would have sold Rooney unless he was replaced by quality. I would have been devastated if we had sold Rooney and not brought in sufficient quality. The situation is still unresolved, but it doesn't matter right now as the summer is some months away and Rooney is playing well.
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Mmmmmm. The Rooney debate. Yes please! :)
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28 Dec 2013 14:45:53
I hope the Lallana rumours are unfounded. He is not the standard we should be going for.
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Supasub instead of going for unrealistic targets like Fabregas or wasting ton of money on a Fellaini I hope we do go for Lallana.
He is a decent player. remember Carrick himself wasn't a superstar when we went for him.
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Guess what Mumbai_boy, Carrick is still not a superstar, just the best of a bad bunch.
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28 Dec 2013 14:33:53
Really think that with Rooney and RVP not playing today, Januzaj had to start! I sincerely hope that Young is not in Moyes' plans and is just in the shop window. You'd think he would just come off the bench and play in the cup. I still remain fairly sure he'll be gone by February, if anyone will have him!
I reckon a 2-1 or 3-1, being 2 pts behind the scousers and 5 behind arsenal going into tomorrow will look a lot better. With both playing tricky away games, let's hope for a good weekend.
Happy new year fellow reds!
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Young is playing much better and might just win us the game today:)
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28 Dec 2013 14:10:54
No Rooney in the squad.
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I just hope it doesn't affect our side mentally today. No doubt the line-up can win today if they believe they can. I hope Rooney being injured doesn't affect the rest of the players today. A chance for Kagawa to show what he can do. Still worrying that we are missing Welbeck, Fellaini, Rooney, Nani, Van Persie, Rafael & Jones. It will be difficult today and Norwich will be boosted by the news of MU's injuries.
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Evra, Evra, Evra, tut tut.
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28 Dec 2013 14:06:46
No Wayne Rooney today it's going
Too be along 90 mins
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28 Dec 2013 14:06:24
Just watched Class of 92, followed by Manchester United: The Irish Connection.
Don't know about the lads playing today, but I'm pumped up to f**k right now! :)
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28 Dec 2013 14:05:55
Regards Varela he's had to go home for a family affair and Penarol have asked to loan him.
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28 Dec 2013 12:02:03
Massive game today - forget putting 5 or 10 goals past them, today is all about 3 gigantic points.
Norwich are a solid team, playing in their own back yard and it's silly result season over the festive period.
If we can roll up our sleeves and play like champions we should be able to take home the points.
Then, apart from Citeh (who look like solid title contenders) all the top half teams are playing each other.
Win today and the table could look very different by the end of tomorrow.
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Completely agree. Even our new year day game against spurs will be huge and the top half are going to drop more points and we might be suddenly looking at a very different league table.
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Rooney not playing today apparently. Does that mean Kags plays 10?
Makes sene resting Wayne for Tottenham, but only if we take the points today!
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DB, if Rooney isn't playing then he is injured, not being rested.
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28 Dec 2013 11:36:30
Ed do you know when RVP, Jones and Rafael will be returning?
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{Ed002's Note - (a) Wednesday; (b) Two weeks; (c) The club reported that Rafael was still being assessed yesterday.}
Thanks Ed, once we have these 3 back I think we will be at full strength.
A few good signings in Jan and then in Summer and we's be set.
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{Ed002's Note - "Few" might be pushing it MB.}
Hmm we will have to wait for that.
Hopefully an LB and a CM are signed in Jan/Summer.
It just struck me that even Fellaini is out for 2 months but I didn't remember him at all. Sums up the impact he has had so far.
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28 Dec 2013 08:49:20
We need a good strong showing and a result today readying us for Tottenham who Sherwood will want to show what he is capable off against us!
Would like a 5-1 but I think it will be 2-0 if we play well.
We can't afford to start again like we did against hull!
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I think 2-1 is more realistic, we are missing our entire right side and smelling at right back offers zero offense and we might have to work our sucks off to create chances and hope we are not wasteful.
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Hope we play better than we did against Hull, we got well lucky but I guess we were due some, and get a result. We seem much weaker in midfield with Jones out, never thought I'd say that, which kinda speaks volumes bout our Midfield lol.
Can't make today so cheer em on for me.
Honping for a belated Xmas gift of a top signing in Jan.
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I think 2.1 looks a more realistic result like Shahram has said. Any win will do to be honest. It's important RvP gets 30 minutes or so as we will need him for the Spurs game. We really need to see our partnerships in this team start to work. Our CB partnerships, midfield partnerships and striking partnerships. If we can sort that out we will be okay for the rest of the season. If we can win today and against Spurs on Wednesday then I will start to believe that we are finally turning a corner. Until then I still think we are still a little fragile and we need to get our best players fit and playing together. How many times this season have we started with the likes of RvP, Rooney, Januzaj, Valencia, Jones, Vidic & Rafael in the same side? I would bet it's zero times.
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Sydney
if it is any consolation we have won 7 and drawn 1 with rvp starting. We have never had all those players you mentioned available in the same game.
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There's a chance with Valencia out that Januzaj will start on the right with Kagawa playing on the left. Can't imagine Moyes will start Zaha although he should be expected to appear at some point depending on the result at the time. Maybe Fabio will get to play at RB or do you guys reckon it'll be Smalling?
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Shaz, we haven't had our strongest line-up available for half a season.
Shocking!
We need our best players fit and playing together for a run of games.
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Oz, I think the side we will go with is on the team page. However, I think Kagawa scoring a hat-trick against Norwich last time round may get him a start. He is a fresh pair of legs too. Perhaps Welbeck instead of RvP and Kags and Adnan on wings?
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28 Dec 2013 08:45:08
An ITK reckons United agreed 36m Euros for Koke let's hope they know something
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{Ed002's Note - It is not true.}
What is ITK?
I doubt we will get guys like him in this window. I think more realistic to get someone from the portuguese league as none of the teams have made it through the group stage or maybe sevilla Moreno or Rakitic as they need to sell players and in dire need of cash. I am not sure we will pay some of the figures quoted as they seem to be excessive. I am also not convinced by Rakitic but really like Moreno.
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I'm guessing "in the know", but this person might turn out to KFA.
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Love it Supasub :)
Ed002 - do you know anything more about Koke that you can share, or do you just know that this specific rumour is of questionable accuracy?
Thanks
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{Ed002's Note - There has been no agreement for Koke. Barcelona held talks with Atletico Madrid about Koke and Chelsea was also discussed in terms of being part of a possible part exchange deal with a Chelsea player. Manchester United maintain an interest in him, as do Bayern Munich and I am told that Manchester City have also had Koke watched recently. However, chances of a move in January must be slim at best.}
Every transfer window you get these people pretending to be "ITK" on their Twitter pages. They are often the same people opening several accounts. Most declare they have fooled people at the end of a window, but others keep it going on forever which makes them look more realistic than others. I would guess there are people who know things out there just like Ed002, but 99% of people like that wouldn't open up a Twitter account. All Pardoe is doing is posting a rumour on a rumour page so I hope these rumours continue, equal to that I hope we have the editor around to tell us if they are true or not ;)
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Miguel Delaney says his sources tell him that Moyes is still undecided on Koke, still unconvinced. Therefore he believes MU moving for Koke in January is unlikely. We know AM are in a great position in La Liga and they are still in the UCL, so Koke would be happy to stay until the summer, AM would want him to stay until the summer and we think Moyes is still unconvinced. We also know Chelsea, Barcelona, Bayern & City are interested in him. All that for me tells us a move in January is highly unlikely.
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