Manchester United Banter Archive January 28 2015

28 Jan 2015 22:23:24
This is better than tuning in to sly spurts, hoping every time I get online I'll hear some good news, eds are we in any talks with anyone, would the club now be in talks for the summer signings if they can't do buisness now for some reasons

A massive Hummels bid is the rumour this morning. I'd hope to see us push for Clyne but I don't see it.

Ya hard to know, we paid a nice transfer fee for shaw I know he has been injured a lot, I was expecting more from him, sometimes he looks like more of a rugby player, what do people think of shaw since he came here and can he become a top Lb for us

Leahy - He hasn't done anything for me, but its unfair to judge him yet. Not enough games, messed around with learning this new position, injuries, no options when he has the ball other than to pump it long or go backwards, players not knowing what they are doing around him, he is still learning and has no experience to help on the pitch. I feel for him.

Both he and Herrera are not being used properly and frankly if LVG agreed to £60m being spent on them then he needs to be shot for what he is doing with them (or not doing with them). I see their potential withering away the longer this abyss is being stared into.

I'm beginning to think that when people put lists on here regarding what personal should be leaving OT, LvG should be one of them. He has players Moyes didn't have and we are still average at best. No one seems to have a clue what they are supposed to be doing, including LvG. As beast says, making excellent players look like persons seems to be LvG's only success.

For 'persons' read "persons" or similar!

28 Jan 2015 13:53:57
Hi all,
Thanks Eds as always for the site.
Ed001, just read your post from earlier on the 'Banter' page and I thought it was brilliant, couldn't agree more. Quick question for you mate, in your opinion, who would be the best contenders to replace LVG at the end of the season? Personally I would pick Guardiola but I am not sure that's going to be possible this Summer.

{Ed001's Note - Blanc and Ancelotti would be the two I would expect to be frontrunning.}

Yes it was a great read Ed, thanks.

I too would go with Guardiola. Klopp is never one that I have fancied, not enough varied experience and a bit too eccentric for my liking.

Ancelotti would bring experience and calmness, he has coached Milan to great success, Real Madrid to La Decima and has managed Chelsea well in the EPL.

Blanc would probably be the one for me though. Young, clever, plays good football and really could build a legacy. He does of course also know the club very very well. I would love to see him here.

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate.}

Ancelotti? Wow, didn't think he would be leaving Madrid any time soon.

{Ed001's Note - it is certainly possible he leaves at the end of the season.}

Would love ancelotti. Proven winnee with a great cl record. Comes with little controversy and seems to get on with players too

28 Jan 2015 18:25:38
Interesting ed. I'm guessing real want joachim Löw there maybe? Hence rumours of Reus / muller. We push for ancelotti. It makes sense.

{Ed001's Note - I don't know who it is Madrid want mate, sorry.}

Ancelotti would be my first choice. knows what it takes to win in england

LOL

ED001 how come you don't get abused when stating some of the exact things some of us have been discussing for the past few weeks.

I think LVG had an opportunity to cement a top 4 in the last few weeks and really open up a gap but instead he has brought everyone else in it with his strange team selections, formations, substitutions and worse of all playing players players in positions that really nullifies them rather than bring the best out of them.

Now we are in for a dog fight and he has no where to hide because he is stubborn and arrogant and if he fails getting us a top 4, he should be sacked period.

I know I am going to get abused but believe Moyes with this squad would have had more points for us on the board and SAF would be challenging for another league title.

Imagine if ashley young had not cleared that ball off the line in the stoke game in the last minute and DDG blinders in a few games and where we would be, almost as bad as your lot or even worse:)

{Ed001's Note - I have no idea mate, I normally attract lots of abuse when I give an opinion. I was just glad I was sat down when I saw people agreeing with me!

Do you think LVG would hide anyway? I think he believes he is invincible and would never hide.}

28 Jan 2015 19:03:52
Madrid have zidane in the wings waiting to take his place an ancelotti knows it.

Great point GCU - I get Beasted for saying precisely what the Ed has said, just shows how most of the criticism we receive is mainly based on people wanting to hide or alleviate their real concerns and operate a defensive approach - similar to how LVG does it haha.

You don't win anything by being ultra defensive in life or football.

Gcu, are you serious that Moyes would have got more points? With the 50 injuries we've had, with vidic, Rio and Giggs retired.
You finished off saying where would we be if . Bla bla bla. Where would we be if mata had put away then two guilt edged chances against Southampton. Where would we be if we had scored the 4 easy chances we missed against spurs. Where would we be if the ref had given us the two clear cut penalties against Burnley. Where would we be if the ref didn't become the twelve man in the Leicester game?
You can't say what would have happened etc. We are where we are and that's it.

I said a few weeks ago that Moyes seems to have taken on a mythical status for one or two including GCU who now seem to think he was better than he was. He was useless and got sacked for what he did, the verdict is out on LvG but to elevate Moyes to anything above a sacked under skilled ex manager is rather amusing at best.

28 Jan 2015 23:23:57
Nomid,

Reading down I was just about to write that exact post, I find myself agreeing with pretty much all of your posts!

Ed001

I am sure you have heard of General Custer:)

LVG is the same and no I don't think he will hide and too arrogant to admit his philosophy needs changing. Completely different league and I believe he has completely underestimated the pace of the PL and in some ways is getting outsmarted by mid table managers and so easy to defend against our style of football at the moment.

A united team with Falcao, RVP, Rooney, Di Maria all healthy scoring 5 goals in 6 games is a mystery.

Ed001, do you know whether this uncertainty about LVG by the hierarchy is impacting on whether we make any January purchases or are they willing to back him now regardless.

{Ed001's Note - it has caused a lot of uncertainty, but January is never the best time anyway. If a top class defender became available at the right price, they would still move for him. The issue is that LVG would like to add certain players, the club are not keen on moving for those players. It is also affecting outs, Fletcher is wanted out on a free by LVG but the club feels that he still has a use and so West Ham should pay for him.}

Redman

Yu are amusing all the time so what is your point. I stand by that statement, this manager has mismanaged so many games this season it is embarrassing.

Keep believing what you will, I think the prefect storm is on its way and we will not get a top 4 finish(really hope I am wrong) and that is the end of this guy and all this non sense that some of us are not willing to turn a blind eye.

Nomid

We led the league in the injury list last year with a much smaller squad and Moyes got blasted for his training methods.

Arsenal is actually leading the league with injuries this year and whilst you want to make excuses for LVG we have added 6 more players to the quad from last year at the tune of 150 million so that does not wash. He is character and it is no coincidence that he has left on poor terms everywhere he has been and seems to self-destruct without any help.

To be hanging your hat on 2 half chances by mata in a game where we looked anaemic speaks for itself.

GDS

Did not take you long to join the Chorus.


BTW ed001 is correct in saying the club is very concerned by LVG target list of players and I would also be concerned buying for a stupid system that has clearly shown that it is a farce.

GCU

My point is that you keep trying to elevate Moyes to something he never was, never attained at any time in his career. Criticise LvG by all means but trying to tell us how good Moyes was only seems to be trying to show you were right about him. You guys need to get over Moyes, he never had the attributes to manage United and amply displayed that. Dissect LvG as you wish but stop trying to put Moyes on a false pedestal.

Ed001,

Do you know who these players are that are causing uncertainty?

I am pretty sure one of them is Strootman. LVG seems hell bent on signing him, yet I don't see what is so special about him. He is average and slow, no other top club seems interested in him. Also there is his injury issue.

If there is any midfielder with a dodgy knee we should be taking a gamble on, its Vidal, not Strootman.

{Ed001's Note - Strootman is certainly one, he is the only one that has been mentioned by name to me. It was just mentioned that he seems to have a 'hard on for Dutch players like Strootman', to quote what I was told. I would guess Vlaar was probably being inferred, but that would be my opinion not information.}

I am not putting Moyes at any false pedestal and genuinely believe with this squad and his experience in the PL he would have us doing better and you can disagree. Moyes is no Ancelloti, Guardiola, Mourinho but he inherited a team far worse than the current team and also had the same issues with injuries etc etc.

We are being mismanaged by selections, formations and dropping points where we should be winning.

It is fine and dandy to say give me another 150 million because i am rebuilding but then again there are many mangers out there that with 300 million can also win you a bunch of trophies. If his vision is to build a replica of the dutch side in the world cup, i say no thank you.

Whilst everyone else seems to have sorted their issues out and coming back we seem to be progressively getting worse with a man that said he needs 3 months and 7 months later I do not see even a pattern developing that is positive and if anything it looks worse than we did 4 months ago.

The injury excuse is old and boring news as he has a full squad to choose from but makes some interesting choices week in week out. Let's see how difficult he makes it for us against leicester this weekend as i have never been a fan of rubic cubes.

Redman
I think its the other way round.
You and others made your mind up over moyes from day 1.
Lvg has had more money and a easier time of it and been just as bad .
Yet people make excuses for lvg after slating moyes for the same thing .

Beast
Your dead right gds and co only replied after you and gcu had

Jred

I knew Moyes would not work before day 1 and knew he was never the right man and no matter what way you or GCU try to slant it he was rightly sacked and can never say he would have got it right. He is history and just a very bad memory now
As for LvG I am hardly a fan but you guys showed more support for failing Moyes than LVG. I am concerned at the shopping list and if it contains Strootman then I would openly question LvG myself

29 Jan 2015 10:10:37
jred,

GDS and co? I was unaware I had a company or a following to be honest, I just agreed with what nomidfield said, no biggy.

I know better than to disagree with Ed001, last time I did so I was shot down, so I will never do so again, it is easier to argue / discuss with other posters and fans than with an editor on the site, I would have thought that is pretty obvious.

Redman
I don't think i have shown anymore support for either manager.
I wouldn't of signed either i think i have made that very clear .
But once in position managers need time.
Moyes didn't do a good job last year for various reasons, i would of give him more time but i didn't defend his performance as you couldnt.
I have done the same with lvg .
Anything else would make you a hypocrite .
By the way as i said in the summer i never thought lvg was the right man.

My honest opinion, i would of give moyes an other 12 month let him get rid of the players he needed to and then bring in the players he wants.
I think lvg with a massive spend, better squad no CL football the advantage of not following fergy has done a worse job so far than moyes at the same point of the season.
3 points better of same goals scored.
Im not a lvg fan but i really expected us to be doing better

Redman

Moyes was never my choice but he was dead man walking even before he started with our transfer fiasco 2 summers ago. We can blame Edwards or whoever but he also inherited a mess with Rooney to go with it.

Saying he would have gotten us more points is not about putting him on pedestal but the fact that i think there are many managers out there besides moyes, who would get more out of this squad. That does not mean they are on a pedestal either but more about our under performing manager. You are hypersensitive to any mention of Moyes.

He is a memory but then again we can only compare the current manager to the last 2 and we all know the one before moyes has a resume that will never be repeated, so no point in that dissussion.

Nomid

You are a trip now you are harping about giggs, ferdinand, vidic. Should I post some of the stuff you were saying last year about these guys lol

now your tune has conveniently changed and another reason why poor LVG is struggling. I am surprised you left Evra and Anderson, Nani and Hernandes out :)

Jred

I am not a big fan of LvG and made that clear. Without going over it all again I was prepared to give LvG more time given his experience. I don't think he is doing worse than Moyes as whilst the football hasn't been great there is a oneness and determination that wasn't there last season. I don't like 352 and strongly disagree with any thought on buying Strootman to the point I would lose faith in LvG.
The almost feverish criticism of LvG whilst elevating Moyes as every week passes is getting farcical. LvG will no doubt be judged at the end of the season including whether his vision of our style matches the clubs.
No amount of telling people Moyes was better will either make it true or him any less sacked. Or LvG out sooner than the club want it.
By all accounts the club knew a long way before they acted that Moyes was not right, they may have concerns over LvG already .
LvG was not my choice, far from it, but he has united the broken club to begin with but needs to do far more.
People have forgotten the years before SAF got his act together. Yes the club was in a bigger mess but we didn't always play scintillating football even when he spent massively at the time.

29 Jan 2015 11:46:28
GCU,

I think blaming Martin Edwards would be a bit harsh.

Redman
Im not sure moyes is getting elevated as such.
maybe its a case of it wasnt quite as bad as some thought.
After all if a world famous manager with the cv and tactical nouse of lvg can come in spend 150 mill + and still only get average performances and similar points as moyes it might make a few wonder.

I try to give a balanced view and i think both managers have underperformed .

Also you can't compare the club to when fergy took over to when lvg did that's stupid .
I don't get people need to make daft points like that to defend lvg when you spent a full season blaming moyes for everything from day one

Jred

Moyes took us from 1st to 7th and totally lost the momentum and confidence of the players, it would not have got rebuilt instantly whether LvG or anyone else had been appointed.

29 Jan 2015 13:29:05
How would moyes have done better this year? 90% of the squad didn't want him and he could move them all out last summer so it would have continued. Even rooneys form dropped off after he signed his contract and januzaj started burning out.

Id have been worried who moyes would have been going for in the market as well.

Moyes lost his bottle, lost the dressing room and lost his job. End of.

30 Jan 2015 00:03:20
MrE - Bale? Fabregas? Herrera? I'd have been happy enough with those three for starters.

Moyes did lose the dressing room, and looked as if the job was too big for him in the end, but to say the team is more united now - I don't particularly see it. Certainly LVG seems to be doing his best to alienate 2 of our best players, whilst some of them can't be happy at being played regularly out of position, in a system that doesn't suit them. I haven't exactly seen us fight tooth and nail to save matches in the last few minutes of matches, in the way that Fergie's teams used to do.

I don't think people are any more critical of LVG than Moyes, but if they are, it's maybe because LVG has spent so much of his time telling everyone how good he is, and what great jobs he's done in the past, that his actions are always going to be scrutinised more. Especially since he doesn't seem to be living up to his self-promotion so far.

Moyes lost the dressing room sure, but some of the nonsense our senior players came up with last season was cringeworthy.

Deeps.

28 Jan 2015 15:51:49
Ed and fellow fans
How important do you think finishing top 4 this season is important for manchester united from a football perspective? Last summer United managed to pay big money to bring some top names to the club. Will they be able to do this again this summer if we don't qualify for UCL? I am quite worried about our top 4 chances looking at the way we are playing and how close behind arsenal are. Liverpool are finding form as well and are only 5 points behind us. Spurs are also not too far away. I fear this season will decide whether we continue to remain a top club for the next few years or go into doldrums like AC milan and Inter.

AC Milan and inter are very different to us mate as they have a fraction of our financial muscle. We need a house cleaning and a transfer strategy and certain players that fill areas that needs most fixing.

We don't necessarily need top 4, but not getting it would be a disaster and would lose us money and would probably see players who are good enough for the CL leave.

It is the players that I worry about Fresh. All the players that we are linked with like Hummels, bale, pogba etc. will suddenly become a lot more expensive and command larger wages. My worry is, can we do this again like last summer

I think there are clauses in some of our major sponsorship deals which mean we take a HUGE hit if we don't get CL football - FFP issues probably in terms of signings. Not sure if its for a run of years, as one offs would be harsh, but I have read somewhere a while ago that no CL football would be catastrophic financially for a 2nd or maybe its 3rd year without CL football.

I'd imagine (not read anything on this) that certain players would have clauses as well to allow them to move on for consistent failure - just guessing about that, but it would make sense (DDG or ADM for example).

Exactly Beast. I don't think we can go on bringing in players just by spending more than other clubs. Finishing top 4 this season is going to vital for us considering how much more squad improvements we need to make.
It is quite worrying. I was expecting us to play so much better at this stage than we are and be real confident of top 4

28 Jan 2015 11:30:44
Hi Eds

Does anyone know if the reports of DDG singing a new contract are true?

Well his girlfriend is a popstar, so maybe they're planning a duet?

A New Contract is a weird name for a song though. Maybe it's a mistranslation?

28 Jan 2015 14:45:18
Danny Danny Danny.

Bloody phone. haha

Whether we signed anyone or not this window, getting De Gea to sign a new deal would be the best signing of the lot.

28 Jan 2015 08:38:57
Have been watching the Afcon, trying to see if any prospects are unearthed. Yet to be awed, although Jonathan Mensah looks like a good defender.

He reminds me a bit of Smalling, tall strong athletic and quick. A good defender but prone to the odd error.

He wouldn't be a step up on any we currently have.

Would rather sign Fabian Schar on a pre contract for the summer. He's several levels above, and has more room to grow and become a better player. Plus he would be free.

I think Smalling and Rojo should look to hold down a partnership til the end of the season, maybe that'll come good. But I still think we should strengthen in the summer, Evans has to go now I think. He's like a poor mans John O'shea, can see him doing well at somewhere like newcastle.

28 Jan 2015 08:05:22
Interesting to see R. Madrid are getting investigated for up to 53 transfers regarding young players. If they are found guilty by the governing body and are given a transfer ban similar to that of Barcelona it could dramatically impact the transfer market, especially in the summer.

If Madrid were to have a ban hanging over them for the foreseeable future this could impact the majority of elite clubs transfer plans, including our own. Assuming a ban did get imposed, Fifa would likely give Madrid the summer window to recruit before the ban became active. That could lead to Madrid pressing for a number of stars this summer to compensate while letting very few leave.

If this were the case Madrid may snap up more than the usual two or three superstars, players who could be potentially on our shortlist or other clubs lists. Having said that if in theory Madrid and Barcelona are banned from transfer activity, FFP restrictions limiting PSG and City (although the could strangely still splash on Bony and give him huge wages) that would leave Untied, Bayern, Chelsea and maybe Arsenal as the main financial attractions up until at least 2016.

It's a situation that could be worth keeping an eye on.

Even if they do get a ban they will appeal and still have this summer to make the transfers they need just like barcelona did

28 Jan 2015 10:04:36
But before going on a buying spree Barcelona sold some very good players like Fabregas and Sanchez, we might something similar at Madrid too.

Perhaps they could go for Reus and might just accept a lower fee for Bale due to their urgency.
They might go for Pogba thereby making Modric available.

You get my point.

Yes but any transfers they make will still be judged under Financial Fair Play rules. So if they have a massive summer in terms of transfers and spending, they would be under investigation for other reasons.

Although the initial investigation is regarding the acquisition of youth players I suspect it would be due to breaking contracts with young players from other clubs or poaching players unfairly or without the necessary compensation. I may be wrong but is seems to be the same issue Barca faced.

FFP restricitons on Real Madrid? If only!