Manchester United Banter Archive January 28 2018

28 Jan 2018 20:08:49
Milinkovic-Savic does look a top young prospect, however I think his game is very similar to Pogba's and I wonder if having two similar players in midfield will work.

England never managed to get Gerrard and Lampard to work successfully together.

If we are to spend 80-100m on one player in the summer then for me it absolutely has to be Joshua Kimmich. He is going to be the best and possibly the most underrated world class midfielder over the next decade. He reads the game so well, works so hard and has such amazing technical ability. Bayern really are wasting their best midfielder by playing him at RB imo.
However, he is that good that he is able to be one of the best RB's in the world even though that isn't his best position. I'd happily test the water with Bayern for him this summer, if we could get him it would send out a message across Europe by signing one of the big boys best young players.

28 Jan 2018 21:19:16
In a 4-3-3, don't really see a problem.

28 Jan 2018 23:14:50
Underrated like Carrick you mean? @beast.

29 Jan 2018 09:48:28
DSG, even in a three man midfield you don't want two players with the same skill set trying to play the same way.

SMS or Pogba would have to check what the other one is doing at all time s to make sure they don't make the decision runs, or move into the same space. Otherwise they'll be tripping over each other or leaving too much space in behind them.

Neither would be able to just play their natural game as they will always have to keep checking themselves compared to what the other one is doing.

No top team that has won any major trophies has done so with two players in the same area of the pitch trying to play the same game.

You don't play with two sweeper style centre backs or two front foot defenders. You have one centre back who'll attack the treat and the second one will sweep up behind them.

You don't play with two target men strikers or two off the shoulder strikers, if you have a strike partnership you have one target man and one off the shoulder striker.

In midfield you don't have two similarly offensive or defensive midfielders as it is restrictive to the tactics and the natural game of the the players.

That's why we never really saw Scholes and Cantona playing in the same areas of the pitch as there natural game would have got in each others way. Meaning neither would have been fully effective.

SMS is a two year younger version of Pogba. I don't think its sensible to be signing another player for 100m who plays in the exact same way as a player we paid 90m for a season ago.

If you look at three man midfields they tend to work in the we way.

One player sits deep, they either dictate the play with their passing or they shield the back four and cover the full backs. Moving horizontally across the pitch but never venturing much beyond the half way line.

The second midfielder will depend on what kind the first one is. If you have a creative deep lying playmaker then the second tends to be a busy destroyer charging around disrupting the opposition and making simple passes to more creative midfielders to start attacks. If you have a shielding midfielder as your first midfielder then the second will still be very active moving around but they will be more creative and starting off attacks from deep will normally start with them.

The final part of a three man midfield tends to be a more defensive No.10 type player. Someone who links the midfield with the forward line, and pitches in with goals and assists.

So the standard midfield set up for a midfield three should contain someone to dictate the pace of the games, someone to do the defensive work and someone to link the midfield with the forward line.

Both Pogba and SMS ideally play as the link man. Both could also play as the deeper playmaker although when they do you lose key elements of their game which makes them less effective players. We can see the difference between Pogba this year and last where he had more defensive responsibilities and less freedom and how last year he was considered an expensive flop and this year THE key player in our side.

I don't see any point in signing SMS then every year one of him or Pogba would have to play in a restrictive way which would just bring bad press on them and pressure from fans and the media.

29 Jan 2018 10:01:37
I see your point snappy but don’t city play with two very similar players in silva and De Bruyne in midfield with Fernandinho anchoring. On paper you would think it wouldn’t work but they have proved everyone wrong this year. Now I understand it has got a lot to do with pep’s style of play but I do think SMS and Pogba can play together. SMS would have to adapt himself as the more defensive of the two being the fool for pogba to get forward and showcase his attacking abilities. It’s a good problem to have for Jose if we sign him.

29 Jan 2018 10:25:21
For me we should try and get either Vidal to add some power and drive to play alongside Pogba with Matic behind (he us more cultured than people give him credit for) . Or we try to get Ozil who would be the attacking link with Pogba alongside Matic adding the drive.

29 Jan 2018 12:53:44
I think we either need someone to add real energy to our midfield or a cultured playmaker who can control the game in a similar way to Carrick. Ideally if we can find someone who does both then excellent, but I don't think that player is Milinkovic-Savic. Who I rate very highly btw.

29 Jan 2018 13:43:23
I can see either Weigl or Serri coming in. With McTominay and TMS getting games.

29 Jan 2018 14:05:28
Or even TFM.

I could see us moving for Ozil as well.

29 Jan 2018 14:33:35
I would play him next to Matic and move Pogba further forward and give him total freedom.

29 Jan 2018 15:54:50
Pogba and Sanchez total freedom?
I think Sanchez will be the creative force in the last 3rd.

29 Jan 2018 17:23:04
Matic and Savic or who ever they buy as the two holding midfielders. Martial, Pogba and Sanchez as the three behind Lukaku.

29 Jan 2018 18:17:04
In some games I see him going witj 3 in midfield and others with 2 and a 10 like jessie has been playing.
Savic looks a real talent I can see him and pogba playing well together. But a tempo setter like kroos would be ideal imo.

29 Jan 2018 18:36:22
Mort I would be happy with that to be honest. Herrera is also there and fellaini might yet stay. Only if fellaini or herrera leave we would sign 2.

29 Jan 2018 19:45:52
With the way mourinho likes to set up in some games, wouldn't it be ideal to have pogba and another player like Savic breaking forward once we win the ball to add numbers to our attack? I think it can work having to similar players like pogba in a 3 man midfield, just means that matic will have to shield the back d4 a little more and not get forward as much, if Savic does come in, I'm sure they will work it out between them.

29 Jan 2018 20:29:31
We will need at least 2 midfielders in the summer. I think Mata will go and possibly the Wig aswell as Carrick . Seri and Savic should be added aswell as bringing back TFM and Pereira 🎂😆.

28 Jan 2018 11:04:25
"Tuanzebe goes on loan, nobody is leaving, nobody is coming. Our transfer market in the summer will be short. "
Jose asked about transfer plans Jan and summer.

28 Jan 2018 11:33:14
He said in Oct that we would definitely not be signing anybody in Jan. Take what he says with a pinch of salt.
Things change 6 months is a long time in football.

28 Jan 2018 12:13:19
Fellani will be gone, Carrick will retire. herrera? . Darmin? Ibra gone. even Mata? . A few holes will need filling.

28 Jan 2018 12:16:33
We would be lucky to get another player in this month of the quality we would be looking at. Jorginho/ Milinkovic-Savic then I’m not even sure what other position we’d be looking at, centre back perhaps, a lot will depend on Jones and Shaw injury records I guess. Jones has been great alongside Bailly who you’d assume is 1st choice, Shaw been doing well of late.

28 Jan 2018 14:49:53
I think ed002 always says, take little notice of what Jose mourinho says. But we know you like a good auld quote jerd 😂.

28 Jan 2018 15:32:12
Ajh. I think rash might get another season.

28 Jan 2018 16:38:18
Rash could just hit a hot streak like jessie has. Martial has been scoring regularly too. Both will improve so will lukaku they all have huge improvement in them so does pogba bailly lindelof shaw jessie all of whom are a couple or more years from their peak years. Not to mention the potential of tuanzabe tfm mctominay Perriera and gomes. Jose is building a very young and powerful squad. Matic and sanchez bring top class winning big club big game experience as does mata valencia and carrick and to a lesser extent Jones and smalling, looking back at the wasted money on players like depay morgan Bastian falcao do maria and to a lesser extent those still here darmian blind fellaini rojo and i see those 4 leaving in the summer it will almost then be like those horroble 3 years didn't exist with moyes and lvg with the possible exceptions of martial mata and shaw all the 1st team players bought by moyes and lvg will be gone.
Our fall into mediocrity will be gone. We are on the up again jose will not tolerate mediocrity.

28 Jan 2018 16:58:11
Very strong squad that probably still hasn't hit top gear.

28 Jan 2018 17:18:31
To be fair, he said the summer window will be short. Never did he say there wouldn’t be a few signings. Perhaps he is setting the groundwork for a quick “blitz” on the summer market to get the business done early. I truly believe there is a wink and a handshake with Ozil which will be the first one done.

28 Jan 2018 17:27:30
Getting there. 3 or 4 more players in but more importantly 4 or 5 out.

28 Jan 2018 17:52:37
United will always buy players every summer, some will work out some won't.
Second in the league, fancy us for a good run in the CL.
Hopefully we can really kick on second half of the season as well because we still haven't hit top gear .
Such a bad squad lol looks to be doing ok to me
So more to come.

28 Jan 2018 19:34:36
I had a small bet on the fa cup. United will win it.

{Ed025's Note - big call that leahy..

28 Jan 2018 22:37:00
Put a cheeky £20 on ius winning then champions league at 16/ 1. Pays for a night out if we win 😁.

28 Jan 2018 20:58:03
Ed a big call with a small bet.
The league is blue. Now I think we will go all out from here to win it ed.

{Ed025's Note - i hope your right leahy, but it will all depend on the draw mate..

28 Jan 2018 06:15:26
{Ed's Note - we have posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 28th January 2018

28 Jan 2018 08:18:04
As always Ed good stuff 👍👍
Can’t help but impressed with Newport. To them the replay signify additional increase in financial terms and I am glad it helps them. Imagine if they win at Wembley!
Ronaldo expanding hotel chain? 🤣🤣 Portugal version of Trump? 🤣🤣
In the scousers portion about Kloppity blasting his defense I think he has to take some responsibility. But well like Shearer said “no comments”
Now I always look forward to your daily review. Addictive 🤣🤣 thanks to you.

{Ed001's Note - cheers glad you enjoy. Can't see Newport doing anything than get a hiding at Wembley. And Klopp does have to take responsibility, he bought the two centre backs and keeps returning to the hopeless Mignolet.}

28 Jan 2018 09:28:50
Ed do you feel it is down to poor coaching from Klopp and his team regarding your defensive issue or personnel? Other than a new keeper I think you need a proper holding midfielder as Lovren, Matip and Van Dijk (too soon to judge at Liverpool) are all good CB's in an individual sense but haven't improved the situation since signing. That has to be down to the protection they are getting? Obviously Klopp isn't hugely focussed on defending as his team's press is the main line of defence but he should surely recognise Henderson, Wijnaldum, Can etc are not great holding midfielders.

{Ed001's Note - neither Matip nor Van Dijk are good defensively and they get no protection from the midfield. Also the fullbacks go missing or make mistakes far too often. The issue is personnel, tactics and not enough work on the coaching ground (though I think that one is a lost cause anyway). You only had to watch the few minutes van Dijk spent pointing at everyone else rather than just dealing with a ball that was about a foot away from him. He does this a lot, looks to others to deal with things he should just deal with himself. Big mistake to buy him.}

28 Jan 2018 09:34:44
So Ed do you think Kloppity gets away with murder?
If it is as Jose I am quite sure the whole world will descend upon him like the end of the world. I think sooner or later something will happen. Either he will get out or UK or he will be told to get out of UK.
“You can hide some of the time but you cannot hide all the time”.

{Ed001's Note - how can he be getting away with murder when he has the team in the top 4 and still in the Champions League? Most of the time he finds ways round the issues, which is what management is about and does it while providing entertaining football. I do not see the relevance to what Jose does, the two are not connected thankfully.}

28 Jan 2018 09:38:52
I have to ask ed001, you say yourself that can dijk is not good defensively, so why buy him? At £75 million I would be expecting a world class centre back.

{Ed001's Note - because he fits the way Klopp wants to play, like Matip he is good on the ball. The art of defending seems to be almost non-existent these days in centre backs, which is why we hear commentators chunter on about carthorses like Harry Maguire as if they are the reincarnation of Bobby Moore. The fact he wouldn't know positional sense if it came wrapped with a big label is neither here nor there these days.}

28 Jan 2018 10:08:25
So basically lots of problems then Ed! I don't actually mind Matip too much. I think he's done ok, not great but ok considering the cover around him. There's a real lack of quality CB's at the moment. Also good stuff writing this every day, it's an interesting read.

{Ed001's Note - Matip is god awful. The worst defender I have seen in many a year. I have seen milk turn quicker. Never known anyone to show so little pace when running back towards his own goal, when he can stride the other way at a decent lick. Lazy mind and really weak.

Thank you mate, I am glad you enjoy.}

28 Jan 2018 13:19:19
Thanks response Ed.
So do you think Klopp is the right manager for Pool? And in your opinion is Jose right for Man Utd? Not that we can just change anyhow but just interested in your opinion and view. Many thanks 🙏.

{Ed001's Note - for now Klopp is the man, whether he will be able to take the club on further or not in the long term is the issue. Right now though, I just do not see who could come in and do more without the slightly less limited funds available to poor old Pep.

I don't know with Jose, he has to win the Premier League and he does not look anywhere near winning it. Added to the fact that the football is so boring I have nodded off watching you a few times, it is just not what I think of as Man Utd. So he has to add trophies or be replaced, though he did enough to deserve another year at least.}

28 Jan 2018 13:32:59
Thanks Ed 🙏.

{Ed001's Note - very welcome mate.}

28 Jan 2018 14:42:59
Im no way defending Jose here Ed 001, but your happy with Klopp but you wouldn't be with Jose in the current situation? It's baffling to me.

1 manager has taken a poor side and won a couple of trophies and sits 2nd in the league, and another has gone backwards, and you approve of the backward manager?

{Ed001's Note - I am sorry but you are clearly talking nonsense. Gone backwards? Liverpool were heading for a relegation battle when Rodgers was sacked. Klopp turned it around and got things back on an even keel. Then, last season, he got the club back into the top four without any European football. This time around he has the club sat in the top 4 again and in the latter stages of the Champions League on top of that. In what way is that going backwards?

Both managers took over a poor side, so I fail to see the relevance in mentioning that. You are clearly just seeing what you want to see. Jose took over the FA Cup winning team, so it was not like it was a big step up to add the EFL Cup and Europa League, it was a team that had won things just before he arrived. Hardly working wonders by Jose to win secondary trophies with a team that won them anyway!}

28 Jan 2018 14:43:19
ED is right about the art of defending is dead, that is down to the powers that be taking tackling out of the game, I’ve said in the past a good tackle can get you off your seat.

{Ed001's Note - it has not improved the game removing it, but positional sense and tracking runners has vanished too and they are still relevant.}

28 Jan 2018 15:19:41
Sorry Ed Rodgers was not heading for a relegation battle, not even close. It was so early in the season that you couldn't possibly argue that being the case.

I do agree on some of your points maybe Klopp hasn't done as bad as I made out, but I do think that with the monies spent they should be doing a lot better than they have.

Utd, really struggled before Jose came in, the FA Cup final we struggled to beat Palace and the signings were quite poor during Van Gaals era. The Europa and EFL, were both competitions Klopp was in the final in and failed in both, I think the EFL isn't much to shout home about, but the Europa is a decent trophy and both sidea would have been more than happy to win it when they took part.

{Ed001's Note - sorry but I can argue it because I saw it and you are ignorant of what was going on, so please don't try and argue because you are wrong. Rodgers was a mistake of the highest order.

The only thing Jose did then was win 2 games more than Klopp, with a much bigger spend, but you think Klopp should be doing better while Jose is a genius? Sorry don't see it. There is very little difference between the two, except Jose has spent more, especially if you take wages into account and has bored rather than entertained.}

28 Jan 2018 16:08:33
Ed if I can just jump in I’d be really interested to hear your take. I had this conversation with my best mate and his dad, both are very big Liverpool fans (banter is great) . I get told consistently klopp is building an empire etc. However, my argument against that is, in 3 years there are some issues within that squad that do need addressed, which have clearly been overlooked. Especially defensively, as you say VvD is not a great defender and I know there aren’t many outstanding defenders these days. There’s been an issue with goalkeeper since Reina left. It’s the same problem we had with the midfield under the latter years of SAF and then under Moyes and LvG. It was clear we needed improvements and yet we never made any significant improvement until Jose came in.
So I guess what I’m asking is, why has he not improved these areas and do you think he is the man to get you guys back challenging for the title?
P. S
I agree he has been a huge improvement on Brendan, and in no way am I comparing Jose and Klopp. Just interested in your opinion as I appreciate your views on the game!

{Ed001's Note - because he is looking for the right players, rather than just signing a player. That is why he was willing to wait for VVD and Keita, rather than just going and signing someone else to take the space. The only time he has taken on someone else rather than the one he wants was this summer when he was persuaded to go for Salah.

He has made a lot of mistakes, the goalkeeper situation being the most obvious one, but everyone makes mistakes, so just have to hope that overall the one in charge improves things. He really should be moving heaven and earth to get Alisson in now, for instance. It is odd in the modern era to see a manager show patience and build with a long term plan rather than trying to do it all at once.}

28 Jan 2018 16:14:14
You only nodded off a few times, Ed? Fair play to you.

{Ed001's Note - thanks, I can't even thank coffee for keeping me awake as that does tend to make me nod off. My local coffee shop that I go to sometimes find it really funny that as soon as I finish my coffee I start snoring away in my chair.}

28 Jan 2018 16:30:57
Going forward Liverpool are without doubt probably on a par with city or just below. I hope you don’t make too many improvements at the back! What do you think of the job Jose is doing? Personally I’m fairly happy, the football isn’t as bad as being made out. I still think we are a few players away from being able to give a proper challenge to the title and Europe, but I always feel we have a chance with Jose. Interested in hearing your thoughts.

28 Jan 2018 22:45:44
Still as mentioned, their keepers are terrible, as are both full back positions and centres halves. Have to build from the back and Liverpool are miles away from that solid foundation.

28 Jan 2018 22:51:35
Too much is made of those two cups we won last season. The EFL cup were were awful in and very lucky to beat Southampton and don't even get me started on the Europa League. Lucky draw against some real minnows and we did everything we could to try and mess it up. Yeah it's two cups in the cabinet but they were horrible cup runs and I honestly took no pride in winning them. Great it got us into the CL, but in all honesty we used up a lot of luck.

28 Jan 2018 02:14:39
As I said before pep will bottle it first mourinho will build a legacy.