Manchester United Banter Archive July 28 2013

28 Jul 2013 22:49:10
I've been told today that we only offered 9m for Baines, but Everton want close to double that amount and they aren't keen to sell as they are worried about losing Fellaini and they don't wanna lose two key players in one window. It was also said that we won't go beyond 12m for a player of his age.

So it looks as if we are at in impasse.

So this got me thinking, who could we get as an alternative. And me being me I tried to look outside of the box.

And i've come up with Neil Taylor, I know I know but hear me out.

We need a player who is prem proven, and preferably cheap so as we can focus our money on midfield.

Now how many of you can remember Baines during his Wigan days? He was very good going forward but poor defensively, his link up play wasn't the best either. But he had talent. Enough talent for a certain David Moyes to be convinced that he could mould him into a top player. He has also done this with other players such as Lescott and Jagielka.

Now Neil Taylor looks twice the player Baines did at that stage, so there is no reason why Moyes couldn't mould him into the next Baines.

When you have a look about there is a shortage of world class Left backs around atm, and even less who are available. So maybe the best option is to sign a solid if unspectacular LB and make him into a better player. And imo there are few better candidates for that than Neil Taylor.

I mentioned him a few weeks ago and the amount of 'hes average' 'glad you're not in charge' responses I got were huge.

IMO He's probably the best all round LB I've seen in a while.

he has great attacking instincts, and at the back he's completely organized.

in a way, he reminds me of a LB version of Zabaleta.

The Moon.

Why spend money on a left-back? we have 3 just focus on midfield dammit!

I've liked taylor for a couple of years. I think he's going to be a really decent player.

shame he broke his leg. would you want to take the risk of how he will come back from that?

Of course Moon

He doesn't play for Barca, Juve, Dortmund etc so he can't improve us can he?

I remember when Big Pete, OGS, Ronaldo etc were not household names and playing for unfanciable teams yet they did not to shabby!

As Shappy pointed to the other day, a certain amount of snobbery is creeping into our fans regarding whether or not a player is 'good' enough before we even have him.

Why spend it? Just look at all the goals last season that came from Uniteds left side. take a closer look, and watch Evra jogging slowly back to "defend". that's why dammit.

Shaw??

28 Jul 2013 22:37:07
following my another post, I have never seen as good manager as saf he should have had like I said before 6/7 champions league finals, only the refs and linesman ruined it 4 him and people say gurdiola and morihnio (spelling) are better and this year he was unlucky again, persie should have bury that last chance he got in the first leg and the red card in the second leg, that's badluck because it where we "united" who should have played against dortmund not real we could have beaten dortmund and bayern in the final i'm sure we could have had 50/50 chance 2 win it but again badluck, that should have been 7/8 champions league finals we should have been played guys with no cm 4 couple of years now and that's fact. saf is/where the best manager on this planet in fotball, hope he gives moyes some advice long the way we have the best squad we just 1 or 2 cm and and hope moyes does not get badluck with the refs, morinho and gurdiola (spelling) and the other manager's has 2 or maybe 4 champions league final's but sir alex fergunson should have had 7/8 he should have deserved it but badluck again and he did it with todays squad players they where unlucky and had badluck are squad is best in the world and with 2 top players no one will stand a chance, ps: it is fact 7/8 champions league finals only unlucky and badluck has ruined 4 us, so I hope karma can fix that. and moyes sir, buy 1 or 2 star players and u will be good and very very much save;) sorry 4 long post guys. zee

What a complete load of drivel.
I don't know what uve been smoking but its messing with your brain.
Cfcmatt.

So, just to be clear. that's 7/8 champions league finals. got it?

28 Jul 2013 21:45:52
Why would Cesc Fabregas hold a press conference to announce he is staying? He could just send out a tweet, or a statement, but why a press conference?

Not sure G. A. G. U. S. but players seem to do everything dramatically these days

I think if Fabregas has decided to stay at barca, the best way to do it, is to hold a press conference where he will tell the fans etc that his heart is with barca and that all is well to avoid any fan backlash.
We have a similar situation with Rooney. I expect united might do something similar, once we've decided to keep him.
Nomidfield

28 Jul 2013 20:24:19
Apparently United are waiting to see if Fabregas (who hasn't made up his mind himself yet) tells Barcelona he wants to leave before we make another bid, if he does then Barcelona have no choice but to sell to the highest bidder (us). Rumours of Fabregas being at a Barcelona press conference tomorrow which sounds to me like he'll confirm he's staying hope I'm wrong though. He'd be a great buy, would help United attract world class players post Fergie and maybe even sway Mr Rooney to stay and knuckle down. I reckon by the end of the week we'll know what's happening with Fabregas.

OT Ghost

Fabregas is just stringing united along his beloved arsenal haven't strenthend and he dosent want united to get stronger the tosser didn't win mutch with arsenal there are beter players and cheaper a red united fan

Not sure I agree ghost. I thought the strategy with fabragas was to offer barca enough money to sell then fabragas could save face by saying he didn't want to leave but if the club wants to sell him he's happy he's moving to a great club like man utd?

as for Mr no name, do you think fabragas thought up this cunning ruse on his own or did Wenger put him up to it?

Christ, its like moulder and scully!

To be honest I do find the whole Fabregas situation very strange!

Are Barca just holding out for more money. I find it difficult to believe its a publicity stunt on Uniteds part.

I do think if we sign someone its to be a complete shock though

28 Jul 2013 19:32:27
In the years gone by, our business tends to be over by this time and the no value notion is already out as the headline on every newspaper. This year, though we haven't bought anyone, we apparently are trying to get the "best" players. But will we get any of these players is a different story altogether.
of these two scenarios. Which 1 do you guys prefer?

reb-red

If we are going to go for Fellaini, I suspect that the deal will be pushed through tomorrow.

I think Moyes and the team will be in England on Tuesday, so I expect us to start really pushing the boat out to get some business done.

Samthered

Fergie said 'no value' once when he was correct, it's never been a headline on the paper just something people like to bring up to moan.

28 Jul 2013 19:07:59
People talking about draxler. He signed a new contract extension in May 2013. I know this doesn't mean he won't sign but it makes it unlikely.

28 Jul 2013 16:18:33
Good to see good reports on Vidic. word is, he may play tomorrow. BTW anyone know of any news on the Garay transfer or did we ever put a bid in at all?

SupRed

28 Jul 2013 15:43:29
Perhaps we should know whether Fabregas is possible by Tuesday.

I understand he returns to training tomorrow and I would be surprised if via his agent we don't know the up to date position. If he was not up for the move I would have thought Moyes would have confirmed today no more bids however United appear to be waiting for whatever happens when he returns.

United may need Fabregas to ask for a transfer which could be the sticking point. The key to it may be his meeting with the new coach and what he promises him, even so it is hard to see him given assurances about being first choice. The other aspect is his alleged situation with his partners children in the Uk and can't be taken to Spain so if true he may not have much choice but to ask for a transfer.

This may explain why United are waiting to time the next offer as it needs to be decisive because if not or there is to be no offer they can look elsewhere if unsuccessful, possibly where contract terms have tight time constraints. I also have a feeling the change of Manager whist for very sad reasons has complicated things slightly.

I expect we will know more shortly and wonder if Moyes may not be so open about targets in future.

If he does choose to stay, what will be our next move. That is the real question imo. Really can't see many options out there right now.

REDFAITH

The worse thing about this is if we do not get him for whatever reason, he will come out and say he never wanted to join us and only loves Barcelona and Arsenal. I think with us going public on this we are certain to go in for one more bid. But I feel if Barcelona reject that one then MU will look elsewhere.

007, do you know anything about this?

Sydney! {Ed007's Note - I said the other day Syd that I personally think there is absolutely zero chance of Fabregas joining Utd. The whole thing seems very strange and there is something I can't quite put my finger on.}

Red Man

I think it's just a situation where the player wants the move, his club don't want to talk and we have to play the villains to progress things. It's no different to Keane, van Nistelrooy, Carrick, Hargreaves, Saha, Berbatov and so on in that respect. I would guess the next step is for Fabregas to state he needs more assurances about first team football. That would probably provide the necessary traction, as we all know Barcelona can't give that. Barcelona can say we bullied them (!) and unsettled their player, Cesc can say he loves Barcelona but needs to play, and we won't care because we'll have our man.

Here's hoping.

REDFAITH

If we fail to get Fabregas then it will be somewhat embarrassing for Woodward especially after dashing home from the tour to attend to urgent transfer business. It would also be an inauspicious start for Moyes who may not let our bids out into the public domain again. The only thing I will let Moyes off on is that SAF left him this mess and his mainstay in midfield Carrick is now 32.

If Cesc does stay then I will say now that a midfield of Carrick and Modric will not do for me at all.

Ideally Gundogen but I have to wonder if he would get released, I like Ozil but not sure he can carry central midfield in our league. Vidal has potential but I get the impression Moyes wants proven experience. Khedira may be an option but it looks like it would come back to Fellaini.

I still have my fingers crossed for Fabregas because we put a lot of time into it and must know what he wants. Hopefully we will know tomorrow.

28 Jul 2013 15:09:41
Dear mr D. Moyes

please freakin buy someone. Please.
on the brink of losin it.

reb-red

He would but every United supporter knows when it comes to world class midfielders there is no value in the market and with the Brand and Anderson we have 2 world class midfielders and if Fletcher comes back that will be like buying a world class player. We just need to convince Scholes to come out of retirement and then we can play him and Giggs in the middle that will put fear into City and Chelsea.

One of the best post I seen in recent times. We needed this kloot, people need to cheer up lol :p

Singh

28 Jul 2013 14:42:18
Just going to throw this out there.

Gundogan was quality this season and in the super cup just gone and we have been linked with him sparingly, but is he actually a good target when you think about the last players who have left dortmund on a high?

Sahin was pretty average until klopp found his perfect position, and used him as a deep playmaker and a key part of dortmunds play. He left to madrid and is a shadow of his former self.

This will not be popular but kagawa is also not as good as he was a dortmund. I do believe he will improve as he adjusts to the league but will he be as good as he was at dortmund?

Gundogan undoubtedly showed potential before sahin and kagawa left, but to have stepped his game up this much I'm starting to think that dortmunds players are so good when klopp manages them that if they leave they will not shine as bright for their new clubs.

Huge fan of gundogan and would actually love him and united, but do you guys agree that there seems to be a pattern emerging with exiting dortmund players? How gotze and kagawa perform this season will decide this I guess!

Go easy on me guys, just giving my thoughts!

Ruan, have you not worked out the link between all these? They're great at Dortmund but not so good when they leave. Link is? Klopp.
He knows how to make them all work within a system. That's what football is all about.
Nomidfield

28 Jul 2013 14:11:41
Looks like we have missed out on fabregas. We should go for baines, Fellani, Ericsson. All available and would improve us big time. not sure why nothing is happening.

Marm

28 Jul 2013 13:24:31
Just trying to gauge opinion on here from the regulars or others. Where do Nani and Rooney's futures lie? I think at present they both seem to lie here. I can't see Moyes getting rid of them just yet.

28 Jul 2013 14:15:46
I also think both of them will be here next season and maybe just may be they will contribute better than last season
Mickey

If Nani can stay fit and has faith put in him then he is as good as anyone under the Ronaldo/Messi bracket. The same goes for Rooney.

If they were all on form then I think a forward 4 of RVP, Rooney, Kagawa and Nani would be breath taking. Then have Fabregas and Carrick behind and our usual back four plus Evra.

Nani anywhere I don't care he's useless Rooney at United until he can be replaced with someone good and I don't mean Fabregas either

Rooney 16 goals and over 15 assists last season, not a bad return for someone okayed out of position and supposedly having had a nightmare season as some of the posters are making out.
And I'm supposed to be the pessimistic one?
Nomidfield

28 Jul 2013 13:06:05
This window has a feel of the calm before the storm, I sense a few arrivals soon in quick succession

I hope so mate, it's all getting a little stressful on this site and I think a couple signings would appease that.

Syd made a good point some weeks ago that players leaving United will strongly dictate who joins. I'm thinking now he was spot on. For instance I would love us to get Baines but surely until we find a new home for Evra we can't make a concerted effort.

Let's hope there's a few outgoing and incoming transfers in the next couple of weeks to settle us all down!

28 Jul 2013 12:43:30
Listen chaps, fabregas joining you, is like Ronaldo joining us (Arsenal) it just ain't going to happen

Mdog

No, it's not.

United are a bigger club than arsenal and can offer a lot more, as much as you don't want to hear it.

I don't see it this way.

Fact is Arsenal and united are no longuer rivals, we're on different levels and only the most dellusional arsenal fan would say otherwise.

and ronaldo is one of the best players on the planet ( see history ), and joining Arsenal is a significant downgrade.

Fabregas joining united is more of a sideway step even though barcelona are better than us, because we're still one of the biggest clubs on the planet, and we're a couple of signings away from catching up with the other powerhouises of european football. And fabregas is one of those signings and he knows it

Lol the arsenal page is getting hammered by liverpool fans atm, that's about there level

I think can offer a perspective on why there seems to be more arsenal fans than usual posting on your page.

Its called emotion.

If cesc signs for you? You will be really pleased to have a player of his calibre in a position that you need.

If you don't sign cesc? It be damn, oh well and you will move onto modric or whoever.

For arsenal fans. If cesc signs it, it would be incredible, fans would be absolutely ecstatic to welcome him back. The feeling would be overwhelming.

If cesc didn't join arsenal and joined you for example? It would be devastating (a lot more than rvp) and the fans would feel hurt and betrayed (I know his not going straight from arsenal, but many would feel that way! Its not rational!).

There is a relationship with arsenal and cesc, which you simply don't have.

As I am sure you know, first and foremost football is a passion. Its not an intellectual pursuit and will always evoke many different emotions in fans (both good and bad).

That's why it means so much to a lot of arsenal fans.

goonerduke

Very nice post duke.

Respect! Liked the post, not enough emotion in the game atm.
Antman

28 Jul 2013 11:48:48
I said it months ago about Gundogen. He is Quality in ever sense of the word. His ball retention and successful pass rate aswell as passing to an advanced position are attributes we are in dire need of. Not to mention his eye for a long pass, his reading of the game is amazing which allows him to make vital interceptions. He is a complete midfielder.
I would imagine by now a player of his quality has caught the eye of several big clubs. If we were to try and get him, I would imagine it would be around 30 Million or so, but I very much doubt Dortmund would sell arguably their most influential player. Playing yesterday against Bayern in the German Super Cup he got 2 goals and got an assist.
Hopefully Moyes' love of German football has enabled him to see that Gundogen is a perfect fit.
James

Top quality player but like you say probably not available and if he did become so, many top teams would be after him. I expect him to leave next summer but unfortunately I doubt it will be to us.

He is absolutely quality! I think though, if we sign Cesc this year and a few others, we are more likely to go for him next summer due to funds. However if we don't sign Cesc, then maybe we would try to get him instead

I think its plausible that we could get Fabregas this year and then get Gundogan the following year when he feels he is ready to move on from Dortmund.

28 Jul 2013 11:15:22
Who on here thinks that Nani may be given an important role in the team this year given that we don't seem to be close to signing anyone better than him for the wings? A clean slate under Moyes and a last chance to prove himself. If we sell him and don't replace him we could be short of numbers. who knows, Moyes could bring out the best in him.

Just because the press don't know of anybody we are looking to sign doesn't mean we aren't looking to sign anybody for the wings mate. I'm pretty sure moyes knows we could do with a left winger. Nani is much better on the right than the left and I would say that Valencia and zaha will be ahead of him in that position. Unfortunately our only real option for the left wing is young and possibly kagawa if we are playing a lot narrower.

Based on Nani's input last season I don't think replacing him with Zaha is much of a step down TBH and we still have Valencia, Young, Kagawa and Welbeck who can operate out wide, so plenty of options. I think we will only buy a forward (be that a winger, AM or striker) IF Rooney goes.

Agreed Fresh. We simply cannot contemplate selling him as long as we don't look like signing a better, and importantly a ready made replacement. Same goes for Wazza to be honest. We can't weaken ourselves further for f sake!

Interesting point Percy, oops Fresh. I find Nani a bit infuriating - he has incredible skill and talent but so often doesn't show it. He is also well toed and muscular but does seem to fall over far too easily, something Ronaldo used to do but soon got over. I think he is on hw way out as soon as we sign somebody. Zaha has joined and it looks like the youngsters will get a chance this year.

Tbh fresh imo he has had his chance, but if moyes feels he can improve him, it makes no difference sekling

Sorry continued, it makes no difference selling him now or in a year I doubt his value will drop to significantly

Chris his value will be £0 next summer, so it is either get £8-10m now or get him to extend which he hasn't wanted to do so far.

Brendan81

Fresh, are you having a laugh? nani can't even take a corner

I thought he had 2 years left, just looked it up, yep sell lol

28 Jul 2013 09:30:33
What time is kickoff for monday's game against kitchee fc. Am/pm included please. Is Rio's testimonial match going to be shown on sly sports?

Cheers

8pm local time bud,

28 Jul 2013 07:34:49
Seen a ridiculous post down the page about us not being able to attract players anymore because of the glazers, how we aren't competitive in the market? Absolute nonsense, players aren't available that's all jus going to go through a few players:

Thiago - was he really wot we needed? We seem to b lining up in a 4-2-3-1 formation at the moment, do u honestly think thiago and carrick would of dominated midfields? That pairing would of got ran right through, if he had played behind the striker then kagawa loses out and I fink he's better anyway.

Strootman - I think a lot of people were over rating this guy just because we need a midfielder, I haven't seen a lot of him but for him to end up at Roma he can't be that sensational, I didn't here of the likes of Madrid, barca, juventus, psg, city going after him? At one point the odds had Liverpool as the favourite.

Fabregas - world class but barca are adamant they don't wanna sell! This one isn't about us not being competitive. it's called negotiation, you don't just go and bid £50-£60million just to make you look good, we're clearly bidding for him they are just rejecting that's all, it might or might not happen but just stop flapping and be patient.

If it was up to me yeah I'd try for fabregas but I really want fellaini, he could protect the back 4 allowing carrick to be the playmaker that everybody wants, would add that steel and physical presence to games and most of all Everton won't be a solid game (he does us every time)

I think it's a tough box to box midfielder we need not a creative one, so a fellaini, kondogbia, khedira, bender is wot I'd go for, I'd love fabregas but he's not essential.

And for all those doubting the glazers, just remember the players we have brought in under them? How someone can say we can't attract players anymore is laughable. The glazers aren't going away, the rants about them are boring as hell so just get on with your lives and back the team

Big Mac, I think fellaini can do a job. And would improve our midfield. But I think we need a creative midfielder like Fabregas. If we get these two, then we are sorted in midfield.
Still leaves the wing position under consideration as non of our wingers are any good to be honest, compare Valencia, nani, and young to ronaldo and de maria, or robben and ribery and you have to admit that we are lacking in that area. I think neither ronaldo or bale are realistic targets, but if we can get Reus from Dortmund, then that will be a very good summer for us.
The glazers have given money goes players, but don't forget we sold ronaldo and others to make up the deficit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but until last year, our net spend on players over the past six years is similar as Aston villa. And we all know we are a much bigger club than villa, and no disrespect to villa.
Nomidfield

You should know better than to come on here posting sensible posts mate :)
I agree that the way we appear to be lining up with a 4 2 3 1 then at least one of the midfield two needs to be strong and solid and I agree that for that purpose fellaini is perfect.
Yes there are better options eg vidal and bender but they wouldn't be as available.
Fellaini would allow the likes of kags and hopefully zaha and janujaz if they get the chance to do what they do plus fellaini would give us something extra at set pieces so taking everything into account I would be more than happy to get him as I think we've missed that kind of plauer since keane ( not saying fellaini is anywhere near what keane was btw before the no names start ;))

Please no, not Fellini. I prefer mid fielders who can pass. I think it really helps

28 Jul 2013 01:37:44
only 1 win in 4 games against weak team, and look how chelski & Arsenal performed, what a shame. that's definitly not the quality we expected. Moyes will have a big problem this season, if he can't fix it.

John

Look I'm gooner, just browsing. But I had to respond.

How can you judge pre-season friendlies like that?

I really wouldn't read too much into them. Win, lose or draw it will not effect your season. You will be up there as usual (sadly!). Just my view. Take it or leave it.
goonerduke

Mister Arsenal fan, not all the posters on this page are knowledgeable supporters sadly.

They don't seem to understand that friendly matches are, well, friendly matches and they are not worth risking injuries/ tiredness and they are all about giving fringe players a chance and improve general squad fitness.

28 Jul 2013 00:00:59
Chelsea fan here in peace. I was just wondering what your stance was on keeping players who make it clear they want to leave? I've always been against it, seeing it as potentially destabilising and I don't think you'll truly get the best from a player, seeing as a lot of football is a mental thing. In saying that, I do understand you not wanting to sell Rooney to us. I mean look at RvP's impact after his move. but do you want to see Rooney's contract run down an him leave for free? It'll get to the stage where he has 6 months left and you have no choice who he talks to. Wouldn't £30m (
a handsome sum for him I believe) be the better deal?

LJ.

28 Jul 2013 00:18:21
Give us Mata and you can have the self centered lump.

That was kind of my point. i understand you not selling him to us, but wouldn't even think of giving you luiz or mata. they're both more valuable to us. think it's wrong he took a big new contract after last time knowing he never planned on staying.

lj.

Shappy - You beat me to it, if you want Rooney that much the deal has to go in our favour. Give us Mata straight swap or maybe consider Ramires in some sort of deal.

Please take him and give us 30 million.

Shahram

LJ

Generally most clubs would look to sell a player who wants to leave and I don't think we are any different. However this is a problem Moyes has inherited and he may want work further to keep Rooney. Personally I believe Rooney can improve so wouldn't want to sell if that is likely, Moyes will have to make that call. If Rooney still insists that he wants to leave then United may sell but I don't think any amount of money would make them sell to a domestic rival particularly Chelsea. If there is an impasse where Rooney won't go abroad then it may be he will have to run his contract down. In two years what will he be like?

Your point about £30m is made as if we should be grateful for the money however this is not a club that will make decisions based on money at least not in that way. If we do sell to Chelsea it would be at the right price and because we don't believe Rooney could hurt us in future. I believe he could and feel our management think the same.

Personally I would not sell him to Chelsea at any price even if Rooney wants to take the step down to you. Our Manager said categorically Rooney is not for sale and I don't believe throwing around your nouveau oil money makes any difference, however interest from abroad may be reconsidered

28 Jul 2013 09:38:31
Ramires and 10-15m pounds for Rooney. I'll take that.

I wanna get your thoughts on unsettling influences in the changing room lobbying through the media to get themselves a new contract all last season

So you give us £30m for Rooney. No chance, we are not some club you can just buy which is how your owner wants to treat everyone.
If Suarez is being quoted at £50m+, then why do we want to sell Rooney for £30m? This is player who scores 25 goals a season and loads of assists.
So if your lovely club want to start being nice and offering these pathetic figures, then do as the other posters have suggested, give us Mata as a straight swap, or if you want, give us hazard.
Or lukaku and £50m and then you have a deal.
Get lost I hear you say? Well the same applies from our end.
Nomidfield

Such hostility from an innocent question on an Internet banter page! I was asking for opinions, not a tirade from angry United fans. I disagree with a lot of your points, as I would, but like I said, I understand you not being willing to sell to us. I wouldn't sell you any of our players out of principle, ESPECIALLY Ramires, Luiz, Mata etc. I just wanted to know your thoughts on his contract predicament. Yes, it's 2 years, but by January it WILL be an issue, and if he doesn't want to re-sign you WILL lose him. for a lot less money that would be offered now. That's just a fact.

I'd just like to add as well that there seems a lot of hostility towards Chelsea for making their interest known and 'unsettling' the player, whilst you simultaneously seem to forget your pursuit of Fabregas. a player you've been told "is not for sale at any price"? A little side dig there, but this is all banter after all.

LJ.