Manchester United Banter Archive July 28 2014

28 Jul 2014 20:59:04
According to media outlets Edinson Cavani is almost signed, sealed and delivered.I personally don't see what he offers United. Any truth in the reports Ed?

{Ed004's Note - hopefully not}

If for some bizarre reason the club decided to buy another striker it should be one with pace (Aubameyang?).

Cavani is a very good player but is no better than what we have. All he really adds to the club is a huge wage and transfer fee.

According to reports Cavani has flown out to Asia with PSG so it doesn't sound imminent to me. He could fly back but we have three positions to sort before a striker in my humble opinion.

I can not see him fitting in, admittedly a quality player but so far we seem to play 1 main striker upfront and I doubt he would be ahead of RVP or even Rooney.

28 Jul 2014 22:07:47
He posted a picture on social media saying he was on the way to PSG training in Hong Kong.
"On my way to Hong Kong to start a new season. " was the quote

No one would hear me complain if we signed Vermaelen, Vidal & Cavani. Hummels I think would be pushing it :)

Not fit to trim rvp and rooneys pubes, terrible buy if this happens

Sydney the only reason we sbould be buying Cavani as if we are selling Kagawa but the squad will still be imbalanced.

Id prefer us to go for Reus or Cuadrado and get rid of Kagawa for his own good.

ED04

Cavani is a brilliant player and I am not sure why you would not want that. He is a huge improvement on the likes of welbeck and hernadez, which looks like we will be moving one of them on for sure. Remember RVP is 31 going to 32 and rooney is 29 going to 30, we will need a striker soon(next year at the latest) and they are the hardest to get and cavani is still imo one of the best.

{Ed004's Note - Because we are in dire need of two centre backs, possibly two centre midfielders and a couple of wingers first. Can't see how we can afford to spend 50 mill on a striker who I think is overrated anyways}

Ed004

I am not saying Cavani at the expense elf CBs, CMs. I am saying nothing wrong with him joining as long as we get 2 cg's and 1 cm. We do need to seek quite a few players as there is no room in the squad if we buy that many.

I believe Vidal will sea the red shirt and one cb will come in and the it all depend on who we move on before anything else happens.

{Ed004's Note - If we were to bid 50 mill for cavani I would be disappointed rather that money be spent on someone like Reus}

004, we are not going to be playing with wingers therefore they will not be needed. We need one more midfielder and one top notch CB.

Hummels, Vidal & Cavani would be plenty and would have no complaints from me.

{Ed004's Note - I think the only reason we are playing this formation is because our wingers are so poor. Reus gives us the option of playing 433 with Janujaz on the other wing. For the Dutch the front three was Sneijder, RVP and Robben. Now robben is not a striker and is a similar player to Reus.}

004, Holland played a 3412 with RvP & Robben as the strikers and Sneijder in the hole.

{Ed004's Note - And we couldn't play that here with Mata, RVP/Rooney and Reus/Di Maria}

004, LvG has confirmed twice now that we will be playing a 343 next season. A lot of the players have given their opinions on the 343 (3412) and they are happy to play that formation. The whole squad are working very hard on this new formation before the season starts. You need to forget about the 433 for now my friend. Shaw and Valencia will be supplying the width as it stands. That's why he's talking about trying to turn Zaha into a forward, just like he did with Nani & Young in the Galaxy game. So there will be a lot of reliance on two strikers. Hernandez will probably leave, that leaves us with Rooney, Welbeck and Van Persie. So I would be more than happy with us signing Cavani. I doubt it will happen, but Hummels, Vidal & Cavani would be all we need this summer and promote some youth. Don't forget there will be less games this season 004.

I would prefer to see a front two of Cavani & Van Persie with Mata/Rooney sitting behind.

{Ed004's Note - I can't see why you can't class Mata, RVP and Reus as a front 3. The other front 3 lacks a bit of pace. Utd have had interest in Di Maria, Sanchez and Cuadrado}

Cuadrado would be the RWB. Sanchez/Di Maria/Reus would be MU's answer to Holland's Robben and could have worked fine. But the reason Robben was used is because he's better than Huntelaar and the other Dutch striker. Two strikers would work better than a striker and a winger. Robben can do both. But more importantly and something to consider is Cavani is available, Reus is not.

28 Jul 2014 20:51:44
Realsiticly what centre backs could we buy apart from vermaelen

If we're going to play three at the back

One of -
Umtiti, Laporte, Marquinhos, Varane, Nastasic and Laporte

and one of -

Bonnuci, Godin, Benatia, Martinez, Badstuber and Howedes

28 Jul 2014 22:29:56
Fabian Schar would be a cheap option for a ball player. He's really good on the ball for a CB.

28 Jul 2014 22:32:58
Redseven, I haven't really seen much of Umtiti or Laporte but I have heard good reviews of them. What are your own opinions, if you have seen them more regularly. Like you seem to, I think we need two centre backs, one strong, experienced, top class centre back like Hummels, or Benatia, and one fast talented centre back like Varane.

I'd say cut out losses with Fellaini (interest from Italy believe it or not) and sign Javi Martinez, covers both centre back and DM

Gilly - I've seen Laporte a lot more frequently than I have Umtiti although I'd probably favour the latter (although there really isn't too much between them right now).

They're both only 20 years old and have already got a few seasons of first team football under their belts. I've seen them both play at lb a few times too which would be a bonus given our lack of cover since Buttner and Evra left the club.

Umtiti is faster, stronger and better on the ball than Laporte although Laporte is taller, better in the air and a little better when it comes to positioning and general defending. Neither are afraid to put in a tackle.

Generally speaking I'd favour the player who can best fulfill the role (which at present time is Laporte) but given that they are both 20 - I think Umtiti has plenty of time to improve the defensive side of his game. He's very much a 'raw' talent and at the right club could flourish into one of the very best. That being said, the same could definitely be said of Laporte (although I think by the time they hit 26/27 Umtiti will be widely regarded as the better of the two).

I'd be happy with either although Laporte would mean dealing with Bilbao who tend to only allow players to leave if their release clause is met (this would probably mean paying around £30m for him). He's also a little more prominent meaning we may have to compete with other interested parties (I'm sure I read that Barcelona were interested not too long ago).

It's hard to guess how much Umtiti would cost - but my guess would be between £7m and £10m. I've not heard of there being much interest in him though so I wouldn't be surprised if he stays in France for another season.

Hope that helps!

Schar/Hintegger/Varrane/ inigo-Martinez/laporte/mangala.

28 Jul 2014 19:48:18
Looking increasingly likely, if media to be believed, that Vidal won't be coming : nor Hummels or De Vrij.

I think Hummels would've been the perfect solution at CB as he is a forceful character and the leader Jones and Evans need at the back (they've looked lost without a dominant voice beside them so far).

Perhaps this is why LVG is allegedly letting De Vrij go to Lazio: maybe he's not the leader YET who is needed to take the defence by the scruff of the neck this season (though has huge potential for the future). Enter Vermaelon: the leader they need (he would be a good, solid buy if only he could guarantee his fitness. ) Not sure what other dominant defensive leaders we could buy though? Ideally need a Vincent Kompany. Any other names come to mind?

Similarly, I think that Vidal isn't quite the midfielder that LVG is looking for. I think that Vidal is a dynamic box to box powerhouse who likes to venture upfield to influence play and take a shot. Perhaps a Carvalho or, ideally Javi Martinez (though won't happen), would be a better fit. Maybe even De Jong to sit in front of the back 4? Not the world class MF we've been expecting but can fit into the system and do the job.

I know that Vidal is possibly the most complete midfielder around (and would be a huge disappointment not to get him) but perhaps LVG wants someone a bit more defensive? Don't get me wrong, would love to get him and sure he can adapt to any system - but would a Javi Martinez type player be a better fit?

Day by day vidal is looking more likely to sign and tomorrow I think we will find out even more, this one will be rapped up by the end of the week, don't see why you think it's looking unlikely, we've made the bid and juve + vidals agent have both said it's up to vidal, vidals agent wouldn't publicly say that if he didn't think his client was tempted, the balls in our court, all we need to do is meet his wage demands, LVG wants the best players, that's vidal. It's similar to when RVP and Mata came available, you don't miss those opportunities as he would do so much damage at teams like city and Liverpool

The 5 names we keep getting linked with by most journos are:

De Vrij, Blind, Vermaelen, Hummels and Di Maria.

Di Maria - definitely going to PSG.
Hummels - no chance
De Vrij - has joined an Italian club (and for a really good price)

Which leaves Vermaelen and Blind.

I'm sorry, that is just not good enough. If Woodward wants LVG to get us back to the CL, he needs to do a LOT better than that.

Anyone got any better suggestions for CB and DM?

Yes RedSky. I am going to trust LVG knows what he's doing and is in a better position than you or I to determine what is and what is not good enough. This is the team that won the league the year before last minus Vidic and Ferdinand who were injured a lot, and Evra who everyone said was a liability in defence. Meanwhile we have added Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Janusaj and Fellaini. Why are you being so negative? With good management and a reduced schedule this team should be good enough to qualify for the Champions League as is.

Peashooter

Why are you namedropping Fellaini?

We won the league 2 seasons ago. Last season we finished 7th.

Contrary to what some believe, Moyes was not our only problem last year. far from it.

Shaw will be quality, Herrera looks the business but we still have a shakey CB selection and no steel in midfield. Plus, 1 good winger in Januzaj.

It's not a point of LVG knowing what's best, it's whether he's going to have to settle for what he's given.

He's a world-class manager, not a miracle worker. We certainly won't be any worse than last season, though.

I just hope he's got a few aces up his sleeve.

Forgot to say, Wallace:

I agree about a Martinez-type player being ideal but the only one of that sort realistically available is De Jong and I just rate him too highly.

Strootman's good, but we'd have to wait a few months while playing Fletcher, Fellaini or Cleverly in that position. bad news!

Again Redseven, if we're playing a different system maybe a good manager can make something of Evans Jones and Smalling. While I agree, if we really want to challenge for the title, we will need some more quality in certain positions, and also we look a tad slow in the back, but I just don't think you should so readily dismiss the potential of this squad. My guess is United would prefer to settle for a top 4 this year rather than go out and waste 100mil.

28 Jul 2014 17:42:45
hi guys,

This is what I was thinking today, We as a club know that we need a experienced centre back that's why I want to go back to Moyes's tenure.

We all know how he performed as a manager but I am angry in a sense that why did we not hold onto Vidic, we wouldn't be in a state of needing for e.g. Vermaelen.

If for instance we had van gaal last year or even Fergie stayed foe anothrr year, I am sure Vidic wouldn't have left.

Its not like Vidic has gone to a team that's going to be guaranteed winning the title next year so he has left because of the differences between him and Vidic or its because he wasnt valued enoufh by Moyes.

I think getting rid of Vidic is a worse decision then buyin Fellaini.

We didn't get rid of Vidic he chose to leave. He was a star but his best days were gone.

He thought Moyes was staying no doubt but remember he had made noises about leaving in the past, we could have done with him staying but he has gone over the top now. Just inconvenient the timing now

Vidic left because he wanted to win trophies.

At the time we had Moyes, who would have taken a few years to rebuild the team.

I strongly believe that IF Vidic had known LVG was coming in he would have stayed.

that said, clearing him, Evra and Rio probably takes out a lot of the player power that was evident at United last season.

So, silver lining n'all that.

Carloto Vidic was our leader I am sure if we offered him assurance over his future and gave him the respect he would have stayed.

Pardoe I hear that he did make noise of leaving in the past but he has been our captain for years and wouldve stayed had we asked him or shown him a bit of love after what he has given us in those years.

Moon Vidic thought Moyes was going to br hrre for a few years that's why he left thinking we won't win titles for next few years, you aee right if he had known that moyes was getting sacked and replaced by Van gaal he wouldve stayed, the only reason I am bringing this up is because we are going after Vermaelen due to him being experienced. We had a world of experience in Vidic and let go of him.

Vidic has been brilliant for us over the years, but his best years have been and gone. We all know the team needs rebuilding, so the sooner we replace the "old guard", the sooner the team, and therefore the club, can move forwards. I know there is an arguement about too much change, too quickly. And also that we need to retain some experience. Personally, I think it is a good thing that Rio, Vidic and Evra have gone. We just need to get rid of a bit more dead wood and we can really start building a new squad of players that can challenge for trophies again.

Fair enough Betty but had we kept him for another year it wouldve helped us a lot and we wouldn't be needing a player like Vermaelen who I think is a big risk due to his injuries in the past.

28 Jul 2014 15:10:29
Looking forwards to watching our next friendly I have seen 2 and I intend to watch all the rest,

One thing that I have noticed massively is the way we work space when on the ball yet close out most the space when we are not on the ball. Tactically we will be so much better this year.

whoever we sign will probably be a success as I can not see van gaal letting the fail in there role .

I also think blackett will stay with the first team this year.

I agree about tactics and style of play, it'll be a huge improvement.

But LVG has stated that he wants players, and I'm running out of ideas of who we could sign.

Take CB, as an example.

De Vrij - apparently we're not interested and he looks nailed on for Italy.

Hummels - NEVER going to happen in a million years.

Vermaelen looks like the only potential signing there, and is simply not world-class. He's more injury prone than any of our current CB's and would be such an underwhelming signing after all Woodward's chest-beating.

28 Jul 2014 14:58:57
If this is a website for Rumours, then don't you think it needs updating more than once a day. am I the only one who is getting frustrated with the lack of new posts during the transfer window.

{Ed002's Note - The website is updated constantly. Idiot.}

Better to have fewer posts then a heap of posts that are either lies that they have made up or something they have read from twitter which is also made up.

Norts,

If you look the time to look at the page, you will see that is updated approx. every 11 minutes (see underneath the "submit" box after the search function. I recon every 11 minutes is pretty damn good for every page across the site.

Maybe you should stick to twitter where you can read a whole pile of complete and utter crap to your hearts content. If you just want to read ANY new post, instead of sensible posts that have some credibility, then maybe this is not the right site for you.

28 Jul 2014 16:19:30
Are you only looking at the rumours page or other posts page? If you are then this post is pretty pointless because you won't see it.

Personally I view this as a fan site where you can get rumours, general club chat from like minded people, views and opinions and where everyone has a voice. The Ed's do there best to give us what they know and answer our questions, even if the questions have been asked a Thousand times (I am as guilty as anyone) I if you want minute by minute updates try newsnow and you will realise sometimes there just is no new rumour other than made up.stuff

28 Jul 2014 14:03:03
How different is the beginning of this season compared to last? Whereas Moyes complained about how we didn't have enough star players, LVG is all about praising the quality of the ones we have. Imagine, as a player, how you might react to your manager's message.

Yeah it sure stands out, it does feel like we have a manager managing now, rather than a manager needing to be managed.

It will be interesting to see how our players react when we sign better players for their positions, or some of our superstars return to take a bit more of the gaffers attention (RVP).

The real test will be September time when players aren't getting enough games, or feel neglected - we need to shift a hell of a lot of players out if the camp is to remain happy, and this needs to happen asap.

28 Jul 2014 12:48:01
Not United related I know, but I really fear for Southampton. They did really well last season, and don't appear to struggle financially, though I am only guessing at that. But to sell 4 of your best players in one transfer window, as well as losing a very good young manager seems crazy. And with rumours of other possible departures too, most notably Schneiderlin, they could be in trouble this season.
Scoushampton won't be bothered mind. They may well have to change their ground name to St.Marys Field soon!
Koeman must be wondering what he has taken on.

28 Jul 2014 13:28:24
The Ed explained the situation at Southampton. I'm sure Koeman knew what the board's plan was before signing. But I do worry for them,like you. Not only the players that they are losing,but who would want to go there now?

It's a real shame as they were building a pretty decent team. There's talk that Osvaldo (Admittedly, no big loss), Chambers, Ramirez and Rodriguez could leave as well as Schneiderlin. Koeman's going to have a tough job this season.

28 Jul 2014 15:49:43
In all fairness the two players they have signed in Pelle and Tadic are good players, the main problem will be getting the team to gel in time.

Fair play guys, I haven't been on over the weekend because I have been busy, so I missed the Eds excellent explanation of the situation at Southampton. I wrote my post, above, before I had chance to look back over the weekends posts. I have now done so, and have just seen Ed001's (reposted by Mr.Bond!) post, so my apologies for going over "old ground".

28 Jul 2014 18:02:01
No problem betty, just don't do it again :P

The issue is, whether this season the match between southampton and liverpool at st. mary be home match for southampton or liverpool.

28 Jul 2014 11:52:14
Ed002, or anyone that KNOWS the answer to my question:
we expect a bid to be made for Vidal, i'm wondering if its common practice for clubs to bid for players who are not known to be available? Or does a bid indicate that preliminary talks have taken place such as an enquiry? It would be fascinating to know the timeline of events for a typical transfer. Thanks in advance

Brendan

{Ed002's Note - Clubs will typically informally ask an agent (a) if the player is going to be available, and (b) would the player consider a move to the club. There may be some broad discussion on the sort of deal that would be offered. If the answer is yes, it is then necessary for the club to approach the player's club to ask if they would be willing to sell and if they would grant permission to speak to a player's agent and possibly even the player about actually making a move. This will typically involve either broadly (through an offer) or actually agreeing a fee and responsibility for any significant costs (agents fees etc.). Once this has happened the club will be able to speak to the player's agent and perhaps the player himself to look at the package that will be involved. Many players are looked at and discussed at a high-level with agents and clubs; a subset of those have an offer placed; a subset of those involve discussions with the player's club; a subset of those involve discussions over terms, and; a subset of those go ahead.}

Thanks for that Ed very informative

How does it work with agents that approach the club? We heard Moyes (last Season) and Woodard recently say that he is always beig approached by agents and xyz player wants to play for MUFC. Do they do this with permission or on behalf of the players club. Or merely to rock the boat to force a move or an improvement to existing contract?

{Ed002's Note - The approaches are unsolicited and generally not approved by the p[layers club.}

28 Jul 2014 13:33:11
Have Juve given MUFC permission to talk to Vidal and/or his agent? Thanks

Thanks Ed really appreciate it

Ufcourse they have Sambo or else the bid will not be made .

28 Jul 2014 11:15:04
Morning lads/ladies

I have been impressed with some aspects of the tour so far, in particular Mata. I really think he will thrive under LVG, when playing in his preferred No.10 role. This guy seems like a model professional to me, always positive and willing to work hard, not to mention his undoubted class as shown for his goal against Roma. This type of attitude is needed when plating under a manager like Van Gaal, seemingly the same cannot be said for others if reports are to be believed (Zaha)

I would love to see the lad get the head down and prove his worth to the team, as we all know we lack a bit of quality out wide, he has raw talent - would be a shame if it was wasted.

Just finally I have a real good feeling about bringing in some new faces, I think LVG knows we are lacking in areas and I don't think he will sit back and do nothing about it.

Hopefully the Vidal saga can come to conclusion soon, and hopefully in our favour!

Cheers

JR

Hi John. I hope Vidal is cleared up one way or another soon, every season we have one like this, it would be good to get one nailed for once!

I watched the Roma game and aside from his great goal I wasn't impressed with Mata. He didn't do anything for the half he was on aside from score. Obviously it's just 45 mins of a friendly but I didn't take any positives at all from that game worth mentioning. A lot of people seem really up beat about it, but I think it's just looking at one or two moments rather than performances as a whole. It seems to be the case that people are saying "with this, with that X would have been good", rather than "this it was really good". When we have this and that, we can then say we are on the right track, otherwise it's like saying if a sprinter could run a second quicker he would be faster, obvious, but he isn't running at that speed yet.

Last season was full of our players making one or two great pieces of play in a game and look at what happened, one moment of class followed by 89 minutes of sub standard play isn't the mark of a good team.

We need people playing well throughout the games not just a little cameo here and there, I think our standards are slipping on what we expect from our players.

The only positive I took from Roma actually was the slimness of Rooney and his 5 minutes of quality. The rest of the game we played very similar to how we played last season. I'm not worried as LVG has time to make his mark, but to say we are on the right track from what we have seen is too premature, (addressing everyone not just you here mate as a lot of people are looking at things with rose tinted specs).

LVG is saying the right things and Roma wasn't built in a day, so I'm really confident, but we haven't seen evidence of the corner being turned yet imo.

It has been nice to see more positives emerging from Mata: his touch, imagination, movement, and understanding of his teammates, as well as being a classy professional.

28 Jul 2014 12:13:30
Fair point mate and I would have to agree that there is still a lot of work to be done, I just feel a lot more confident with LVG being at the helm, and with the point on Mata It was more towards his attitude and hard work ethic, really think many should be more like him. I think he will thrive this year as he is class. Yes it seems like our standard is slipping too many average joes happy to sit back and take a wage, I think that will soon change as Louis stamps his authority on the squad.

Just finally on Rooney, he really has slimmed. Many want him gone but if he's going to stay fit and bang in 20+ next season then why get rid of him.

Where do you think we will finish next year Beast?

Yeah Mata is a very intelligent man and he is one of footballs good guys. I really hope he thrives under LVG and he will be a good role modal for the youngsters coming through (hopefully Zaha as you mentioned in your original post).

I think where we finish has a lot to do with the signings and how quickly we adjust to the new system. I genuinely think if we get Hummels & Vidal we will win the league without question, without them to and just as we go now, (we will sign some but if we don't for some crazy reason), then I think 3rd or 4th. We have no Europe, a fairly easy start to help with the tactical adjustments, so points shouldn't be lost whilst we adapt in competitive games and if Rooney continues to take things seriously and treats himself and the club with the respect he should, then he could be key and I'm prepared to adjust my damning assessment of him in recent years.

We desperately need some authority in the middle of the pitch and at the back. LVG knows this I'm sure, so we can capitalise on having less fixtures and a team eager to impress rather than the lethargy we witnessed last season.

How about you John, what do you think?

28 Jul 2014 15:35:42
Absolutley Bang on the money Beast, We Need to strengthen futher in the middle and at the back and with Vidal and Hummels we would be much stronger and genuine title contenders IMO.

On the flip side if we don't get those two or don't sign anybody, I still don't thnk we will be as bad as last season, Although we will not be title contenders.

In my honest opinion mate I do think we will sign a few players and some more will leave, I hope we sign the right players and are back where we belong.