Manchester United Banter Archive March 28 2014

28 Mar 2014 21:53:34
What a fuss over a stupid aeroplane with a banner. I really couldn't care less and don't believe it will make one bit of difference to when Moyes leaves. which he will.

The fact is this stunt is the direct end product of beyond-the-cause support that Moyes has received from the board and the terraces (even in the form of not being harassed more.) Moyes would not still be in situ at this point at any other club in the world - and as such certain sections of support are looking for more innovative ways of expressing their frustration. The performances on the pitch are not as frustrating as the lack of action taken against Moyes for some supporters. Issues with Stretford End Flags, a split board, split fan base, dressing room revolt and coaching staff knick names and ridiculous tweets will soon take its toll. Where has all the discipline gone?

Take away the debate about Moyes ability as a coach and judge of player. His, and the club's, biggest issue by FAR is he is not a charismatic leader of men. He has weakened this position yet further by placing our rivals on a pedestal to aspire to. Give me a break. That is NOT good enough, and breaks the fabric of the club's never say die attitude, which itself is in its final stages of cardiac arrest in his brief tenure. Can you imagine a Real Madrid manager admitting that Barca are better. No chance.

The biggest danger right now is that there will soon be no link either by player or coaching staff back to the never say die days of United. We will lose the winning legacy that posed the same problem for Liverpool when players and coaches from their golden days moved on.

Moyes has removed the coaching links back to the past in one summer, and now has a prickly relationship with many of the Class of 92. These should be the cornerstone of our coaching staff, not playing second fiddle to Everton's back room. How absurd!

Right now this club needs a manager that can re-build those connections. It needs a manager that appreciates the past in terms of player, coach and philosophy. It needs a manager that can heal the damage caused by Moyes. It is time to truly invest in the future by relying on the successes of our past. It is time to give Giggs the position under the watchful eye of SAF. It is time to elevate Scholes and GNev. Nobody can unite the club like these living legends who know that United is much more than just a name.

Timbo

Timbo you make a few good points but most are dilluted by red top sensationalism. What proof is there of a 'prickly relationship' with the class of '92? And what makes you think Scholes and Neville will make better coaches than our current backroom team? Didn't mourinho admit barca were better than his madrid side when they were thrased a few years back?

Honestly not trying to have a go but sometimes we all jump on the bandwagon that if a season goes by without success then big changes need to be made. Imagine if this had been the case before THE forrest game. What winning legacy would we have to talk about now? What if Howard Wilkinson never wanted to sign Dennis Irwin? Would we have had a King of Old Trafford? What if Keane had lost his rag in Turin? Would we have a never say die attitude in the eyes of the younger fans?

A season can be made and lost on a second. Unfortunately for us we have been on the wrong side of a lot of seconds this season. However, if you ignore the Liverpool and City games lately, we have progressed as a team and look better in general. As for those two games, well I would never have put money on us winning either as both those sides are showing their best form for the last 25 years or more.

Now I am not under the impression that Moyes is the best longterm option for us. but if given a bit of time I feel he can stabilise us through this transition and have us challenging at the top. I had always thought that moyes would take over until a kloop blanc or a mourinho would become available who would then take us up another level. Yet none of those managers would be able to handle the pressure of our current situation in my opinion.

Now I am not too sure on Moyes employment situation. I feel that he will be forced out by the fans and then we will go through a number of managers in a short period in an attempt to appease the fans.This may lead to lack in results consistency and as such our ability to attract the best players to old trafford will falter. Very similar to the Liverpools of the 90s.

I hope I am wrong on that.

For now I still stand by what he is doing. Our team has not been the best for a number of years yet we had the very best man in charge. Now fergie has gone we can all see the quality of players we have in our squad. They are too old or too inexperienced or according to some too egotistical.

Sorry for the long reply, and not all is in direct response to your post Timbo but I feel not enough of us are saying it.

Good post mate.

28 Mar 2014 22:09:24
My biggest hope is that the Glazers are looking at the potential downside right now and are seriously considering selling the club. At this point they can take their profit and run, however should they go ahead and invest 200m and then we still can't get back into Europe, they will be looking at more debt and a serious decline in revenues.

Whether or not to retain Moyes is an enormous decision. Keep him and he fails, they are in deep doodoo. Let him go, there's no guarantees that way either. Would you take the risk with your couple of billion right now?

28 Mar 2014 20:49:25
Eds - given the obvious feelings of many that Moyes needs to be replaced, is it too hasty to set-up a vote on who fans would like to see replace The Chosen One?

Appreciate there'll be obvious ideal candidates such as Guardiola, Mourinho and Ancelotti who are just unobtainable. With that in mind can I suggest folks views on:

- Klopp @ Dortmund: well documented success story need I say more

- Simeone @ Athletico: if the ultra-battling tackle em til they bleed style can top La Liga surely that would work wonders in the Prem

- Conte @ Juve: reinvigorated The Old Lady to back to back titles albeit with the assistance of the best midfielder in world football in Vidal

- Van Gaal @ Holland: been there and done it with Barca etc

- Others as pilgrims see fit!

Ta muchly

Halesini

{Ed004's Note - maybe a bit soon but maybe good to hear others opinions for other managers}

The next manager has a better chance to succeed, less pressure. Klopp is a leader and could unite us the fans and inspire the players. He would get my vote.

Anybody that plays the united way you score three we will score five none of this we will try to stop the other team scoring and with it playing he worst football ever

Simeone, anybody that can challenge the big 2 in Spain while continually selling their best players has to be a great manager and leader.

Just pretending that Moyes is hounded out soon, the question should actually be, who in their right mind is going to want to manage us?

Red man where do you get this less pressure from? The manager that succeeded SAF will have been hounded out, planes flown over the stadium, banners forcibly torn down during a game, fans screaming at you as the game goes on, failing to get top four and being a new manager yet again, having to get rid of at least 6/7 players and get quality players that want to come to a team which no longer has stability of any kind.

People are desperate to get rid of Moyes, but I don't think they are taking into account how difficult getting a quality replacement would be with everything that has, is and may go on.

Klopp for me. Doing what he did with Dortmund using youth and bargain buys is incredible. Not only a top coach, but a great manager who can motivate his players to play to the best of their ability.

Klopp would be outstanding. And unlike Simeone and Conte, who would be highly motivated to continue on the success they have achieved so far, I wonder if Klopp must feel like the entire Bundesliga is playing for 2nd place. I hope he would find the Premier League race a very attractive prospect, besides all of the history and potential of Manchester United.

Wilmots maybe.

Brendan

The manager that inherited SAFs role had to be big enough to handle the pressure and carry the expectation. I remember the Matt Busby transition and was banging on about it needing a major manager to take over to handle it for a long time. It was going to be hard taking over from SAF given his profile and that we were Champions. If we change now our expectations are less and the new man would not be inheriting the Champions. If we select a top manager they can come in and not have the level of expectation immediately. A top manager could cope either way but there would be less pressure to achieve now because as Champions we may not have expected us to finish first but we did expect a challenge and top four, it would therefore be slightly less pressure.

In terms of pressure try the other big clubs, Madrid would not have stood for the utter nonsense we have seen this year they would have been waving white hankies months ago and the manager would have gone. Yet you know what? a new one would have come in to take the challenge regardless of how the last one was treated. If Moyes goes now and we are ambitious we would get a top manager.

Red man united are totally underestimating the amount of pressure that will be on a new manager if Moyes is sacked, it would be immense, much more so than when Busby retired. Football has become so much more than a sport in the past 25 years and the pressures now cannot be compared to the 60s/700. Now, Moyes wasn't my choice to succeed SAF, I went for Klopp, but Moyes is here and will be for the Forse able future, he and the team need our support and that is what I will give, until he has been given a fair shot and a summer transfer window to sort out an average and ageing first team.

Thanks chaps. Klopp was the outstanding candidate last May when we should've gone for him and he remains so.

I do think Simeone would flourish in the Prem but Klopp for me.

28 Mar 2014 21:01:54
you lot should let this Moyes-hate go .
He will be given a good transfer budget and will get at least next season. You are still a big name and he will attract some good players (not the cream - those days have gone to City/Chelsea/PSG) but good. You will improve next year but still will only be 5th/ 6 th. IF all goes
well you can be challenging for top 4 the season after next. Now how is that for unbiased

Champions league winners medal still up for grabs this year yet.who needs top4?

Seriously puzzled

come on your having a good season by our standards

but the funny thing is by liverpool standards were having a good season

dont worry do next year is our year ;)

28 Mar 2014 19:08:01
There will be 2 planes flying over O.T. Tomorrow. One will be the anti Moyes banner but the other one has not been announced. The pilot said, on radio, that his client has not given him permission to announce what the other banner will say. Maybe it's a backing for Moyes. Cannot see 2 banners against him. Either way it shouldn't happen. The man is trying his best and untill he gets his own players in you will not be able to judge him. Patience and support is what is needed. Maybe the other banner will say keep Moyes, paid for by Chelsea, Liverpool and city.

Apparently its supposed to be a cheeky add by paddy power

Paddy power are ruthless

28 Mar 2014 18:00:49
Well as I am getting seriously bored with the constant debate of Moyes in or moyes out. I make no secret of the fact that I believe it is far far too early to be sacking the manager and the current players are more a cause of our demise than the manager.

I have a couple of questions for those who are in moyes out camp. What makes you think you are a better judge and know more about football than the following list:

Beckham, Mourinho, Neville, Cantona, RVN, Charlton, Schmeichel. keane, Pallister, Cole, Scholes, Blanc, Wenger, etc etc who have very clearly backed him publicly.

2. What did Ancelloti, Shankly, Paisley, lippi, Sir Matt Busby win before their first appointment to a big club.

Listen are you seriously suggesting that because mourinho and winger publicly back Moyes we should stick with him?
Are you for real, I wanted the scousers to stick with kenny, souness, and Benitez.
The ex utd players etc just want to say and be seen to be saying the right thing and want to criticise fergies appointment.
If he was sacked they would say that is the right thing to.
Question for you if he was to go would you rather go for one of our ex players or abroad and then who?

I get that you're trying to provoke people but honestly is that the best you can do?

Moyes deserves time because (a) a number of ex-players with links to the club and current managers have said he deserves time, and (b) a small number of managers became very successful at big clubs despite having won nothing prior to their appointment.

I think they call that clutching at something or other. But I think we're probably closer to the something that breaks the poor camel's back.

I don't think the fact that a few managers and ex-players have said nice things about Moyes counts as evidence for anything. Nor does the fact that other managers, in completely unrelated situations, had to take control of a big club to win things. The actual evidence is visible every time we play and written all over the league table: we are playing worse than we have in decades and are stuttering to a midtable finish for the first time since 1990.

I agree that Moyes isn't the only problem at the club. He may not even be the biggest problem. But the one thing he is not is the solution. He has taken over a team in decline and disimproved it in numerous ways. I accept that it is unlikely that Moyes will be shown the door, primarily because nobody at the club has the guts to stand up and say Fergie was wrong, but nobody looking at the situation can truthfully say that the think Moyes is doing a good job or that he knows how to turn things around.

What a ridiculous post, that's like saying what makes us a better judge on someone like macheda when people like sir Alex ferguson and Gary Neville said he was going to be the next hero at old Trafford like Ronaldo. Who are we to say he's not good enough?
The fact is people are saying things don't change over night. They clearly did, we smashed the league and where robbed against Real Madrid, then all of a sudden we're 7th in the league and a laughing stock.
Moyes's tactics are abysmal, and he can't motivate our players to win, that's his job. We need a confidence boost and the only way I see it is if Moyes goes.
I like the guy but he's not the man for the job, he's suited to a team who has no expectation, a team where finishing 6th is an achievement

Shahram, come on you're better than this. You cannot be that gullible, can you?

Managers always, always support each other, it's like the bro code.

And then you come out and cite famous united legends, half of whom are still on the payroll.

It feels that both sides ( pro and anti Moyes ) have extremists, and your view is as extreme as it goes

Come on Shahram, are we not both right? The players have not performed this year and we know the squad should have been refreshed earlier, and that midfield in particular has been neglected for far too long. But that doesn't mean we can't debate the merits of the Manager. We can question his qualifications and experience for the role but did you ever expect to hear our manager saying the kind of things DM has been saying? Some of the posts on here about him have been very personal and the muppets with the plane and banner need a slap, but you don't have to sit in one of the it's the players, or it's the manager camp. Perhaps it is both

Tony

What makes you think you are a better judge and know more about football than the following list:

GCU, 2 words. Pot and kettle.

The very nature of a site like this means that people come on to express their views and opinions. We all have them, and we all think we are right. You included.Whether Moyes is right or wrong for United will be seen in time. Personally, I have lost patience with him. To me he clearly looks out of his depth. There has been an awful lot of support on here for Moyes in the last couple of days, followed by a whole load of metaphorical back slapping and congratulating each other for "great posts" because it seems that if you support the manager no matter what, you must be a "better" supporter.
At the end of the day, we all have our opinions. We are all entitled to them and are free to air them.

He thinks we should aspire to be City!
He is one blunder after another, we might beat villa then get murdered by bayern.
He will go its just when and how much damage he will have done or allowed to do by then.
I would defend him if I could see anything he was doing that was positive.

The people who want Moyes out are the people who never wanted him in the first place. I knew after the summer he would struggle for the first season because he never got the players he needed to freshen the team up, The same people who did not want him now feel they have there point proven and he should go and they will be happy to let every one know how right they were, I think they have been short sited I think any manager would have struggled following SAF and I think when the team is ripped up and the new blood comes in he will put his team out and prove them wrong and we will hear very little from the people who have said from day one he is not the man to take the club forward, let's see were we are in a year if we are sitting outside the top four then he will have to go and I will hold my hands up and say I was wrong along with the board and SAF and the experts were right, but until he has been given a real chance to grow into the job. I will back him to pull it around.

Danny did you miss the leverkusen match and the olympiakos match? can you not accept that the players and manager have it in them. or can Moyes only be blamed for the losses and not accountable for the wins? worse every time you see them is not fair.

LOL

it was a simple question guys. I keep reading he does not have the qualifications and out of his depth, because he was at a middle table team and has not won anything.

Just wanted to be clear this stuff is malarky and in no way a prerequisite for success.

Some of the guys have no affiliation and if anything are very outspoken and if they thought he is wrong they would say it.

AJH/Mick

I honestly believe it is 90 percent players . I have not liked our brand of football since 2011 and expected this not to this extend but SAF stepping down has exasperated it. Even with Fergie at the helm this year we would have maybe finished 4th but not higher.

Keep it coming, I am currently house bound kicking a bad cigar habit. LOL

Katef
I think that's a very good point

Katef

I am not sold on him either way but believe to truly have a conclusive view on him he needs time to bring in 6 or 8 players and also clean up this team by selling the same amount.

I completely agree with your post but there are posters here who are like a poison chalice. Moyes not having won before has been a constant reason used by many and then the reference to sexton as a parallel to scare people. The joke of the matter is sexton won a European Trophy and a Domestic trophy before he arrived at United.

The truth of the matter is until I am convinced other wise and taking the emotion out of it, I do trust SAF, SBC, David Gill's judgement as they know a lot more about the game.

Believe me there have been many of times this year that I wanted to blame moyes for a bad result and join in the crowd but thought better of it.

Just because they have played football doesn't mean they know more than the paying public most of the ex players mentioned are still on the old trafford pay roll in one way or another so you wouldn't expect anything different.he isn't good enough for the biggest job in british football its nothing to be ashamed of and happens in every industry.

GCU

Sexton had a similar style to Moyes, and didn't inspire anyone including the fans and the players. He had had a modicum of success but it was quite a few years before coming to United and that was more than Moyes. It isn't to scare people but I went to all the home games during the Sexton era and some away and it bore great similarities to this season. Just sticking by someone when they have clearly demonstrated that they haven't got what it takes either before joining us or since is very dangerous risky path to the business both football and financial wise. Will the sponsors buy it for next season, will season tickets sell? He hasn't demonstrated any significant leadership traits and I would have expected him to by now. There needs to be improvement in some areas of the playing staff but if the manager can't get respect from the level of players we have he will be very unlikely to get it from world class players brought in. Looking at the mess from outside would those players want to come, I am not sure even for the extra money. He has lost the majority of fans, even if he is trying to say he hasn't. The best choice is to get a new manager the players and fans respect and can get behind. Moyes got off to the wrong start as SAF had to effectively beg the fans to support him when we should not have needed that. I think it very unlikely Moyes can get the fans back, the Scouse favourite and the aspire to City comments has really rankled fans who were not happy before. He is a dead man walking and it is now when not if he goes.

The bayern game will be his biggest test yet. I promise we won't be waving a white flag like barca last season. Moyes will make this united side his this summer and there will be people eating there hats this time next year.

Agree with a lot of what you say there red man . I was at those games too under sexton and I have felt the same as you this season.

28 Mar 2014 17:48:32
Flying over our own ground, with childish and embarrassing signs. What have we become. No matter what you think of our manager he is still our manager. A Manchester United manager who deserves respect. Decades of success under a manager, who I remember receiving the same treatment. Then came the trophies and all of a sudden the abuse stopped. Then one bad season under a new manager and out they come from the woodwork again. This just goes to show what spoiled brats many of our so called supporters have become. Shame on us.

In the last month my opinion on united supporters changed as a direct result of the class, a lot of you have shown. Flying a banner saying moyes out is shameful, and a disgrace to a club with a proud history. Those who support this banner need to grow a pair and show some class, like the true supporters have shown in this difficult period for the club

{Ed004's Note - For once I agree with tel. Although I think Moyes was the wrong choice no man deserves this}

What is quite sad abut all of this is the fact that this is a reaction to the city game. The same team that has beaten us the last 3 times at OT.

By any measure this city team is an improved side and playing better that the team from last year and highly motivated, so I don't understand all the fury and noise and proved the gap in class watching their players and ours.

I know it is hard to swallow and accept but it is what it is.

Every club has persons as supporters and I am sure the group who has organised this publicity stunt are a minority.

28 Mar 2014 15:35:56
I trust that those of you who can read have seen the story in the papers today about United's hierarchy being prepared to give Moyes more time because they have been surprised/shocked at the state things were left in by McBluster.
I have been telling you that for months. Most of
you all know it to be true but few will say it in case
it tarnished the record of the sainted one.
In future read my posts- in agreement

Of course, but wait a minute, weren't we champions last season by 11 points!

And your point is?

I thought muppet only a little bit of re tooling woodward was part of the hierarchy he seems to be getting away scot free

What article are you going on about? As if the meeting would be divulged to the papers that you read. Or was it a picture in the daily sport for some sort of caption contest? I mean using the word Mcbluster in your post and then expecting us to take it seriously, ffs.

Supasub - would you prefer McMoan?

Supasub I read most of the papers most days so cannot be sure which it was in and I am not inclined to start searching now BUT I think it was the Mail

Honestly puzzled mate, u have BR and his mouth as manager and u are throwing around phrases like mcmoan lol the mind boggles :-)

Didn't Mcmoan play for the Liverpool midfield in the 80s?
Ah yes it's a story only found in the Mail which qoutes a "source from inside old Trafford". These journos certainly get some top information.
Anyway puzzled using your perception on the current MU situation how would you then regard King Kenny?
He then could be referred to as the djemba djemba of management. So bad he got sacked twice?

28 Mar 2014 14:30:08
So Rio is embarrassed by the results & afraid to face people?
FFS if I defended the way he did Tuesday night I'd be embarrassed to face people.
Why can't the players own up to their own inadequate performances instead of pacifying us with patronism?
The way he turned around looking for someone to blame on City's 2nd goal was shocking. "He was your man Rio".
Roll on the summer!

28 Mar 2014 09:18:51
If reports today of, 'supposed', United supporters paying for a plane to fly over OT tomorrow with 'Wrong one:Moyes out' are true, then it is an absolute f*cking disgrace. This season has been tough for all of us, but to do something like that just sinks us to a whole new low. If it happens it will be the first time in my whole life that I am truly embarrassed to be a United supporter. If true, I really hope no one on here has contributed or agrees to such a shameful act. I know we all have our differing views on everything United, but even the most anti Moyes person on here must cringe at the thought of that happening tomorrow. people think we are a laughing stock now, it is nothing to what we will be if this happens tomorrow as, like it or not, Moyes won't be on his way until he has been given time to sort the squad out, and as the fat waiter says, that is fact. The Glazers won't care about a plane or fans getting impatient, they didn't care when people burnt effigies of them outside OT ffs.

Have to agree with you. EVen though I support LFC, I still think that this story is ridiculous. Not to the standard of Man U fans, who I have to say have been amazing the last few weeks, esp at Old Trafford.
Its similar to the petition that was started for Cleverly. Hope the persons don't get their way!

Been a long since a posted. I do want say that I do feel is rhinocerosing disgusting as u put it Brendan. Even those who abused SAF as well. They don't deserve to support this proud football club. It breaks my heart to see my beloved United not putting up a fight like we did just over a year ago and decades before that but it's low to think that we can treat people the way sum of these so called fans want to treat Moyes. No human being deserve to be humiliated like that and not our manager no matter how bad he may be for the club. What message are we sending our children with actions like these. I feel absolutely ashamed to be called l a Manchester United supporter at this moment. With or without Moyes we will rise and ascend to the top of the league. GGMU

I think Red Man and No Mid paid for the hire and Danny is flying the plane :)

Nick 86 thought about it but decided against the idea :)

Brendan, we don't normally agree with each other, but in this case I couldn't agree more. It will be a shame and an absolute disgrace and will certainly seperate the fairweather glory hunting spoilt brats that have tagged along with our club. It is cringeworthy to say the least. I sincerely hope nothing like that happens.

Deeps.

Everton 0-1
Newcastle 0-1
Chelsea 0-0
Liverpool 0-3
City 0-3
Tottenham 1-3
Arsenal 1-0

That is our 7 results against the other top 7 teams. 1 win, 2 goals scored, 11 goals conceded. I have sat through each of these games at Old Trafford and I have been appalled at the end of nearly every match. I do not agree with the banner, but I do not really care if other fans think we are a laughing stock, who cares what other people think, I certainly don't.

Moyes keeps coming out saying how great the fans are and that they are behind him, yet 90% of posters on here are not behind him, so somehow he needs to know.

I agree with you that we probably will not sack him, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't sack him, he has turned champions into a terrible side, there is no excitement and no good results, so where is the reasoning for the fans backing?

Well its their money, if that's what the want to do its up to them, but it will be the focus of the cameras and media, and I am sure the board and glazers will not like the bad publicity.
Anyway how long is it since Villa won at OT, are we going to see another record broken

GDS, Moyes was left an ageing side with some big personalities in the dressing room. I think those older, experienced, big personalities have not been pulling their weight this year on the whole and have affected the feeling in the camp in a negative way. When he arrived he had Woodward new in his role who had a shocker in the summer as was the agreement on here at the time. January is a tough time to get players but we got Mata, who hasn't set the world alight yet but will do, I have absolutely no doubt. I EXPECT at least 4 top quality players in the summer and then next season we will see what Moyes' plans for formation/tactics are.

Moyes is not SAF and can not get the same level of performance out of our slightly above average players and I don't think any other manager could have either. Do you seriously think Klopp could get this group playing exciting football? SAF couldn't even do that for the past few years, it was like watching paint dry a lot of the time but people choose to forget that because he had amazing motivational skills and respect from players and got more than he should have out of a lot of them. Moyes was never going to have the same skills and needs time to get the respect, and also ship out the old, past it SAF players so he can build HIS team that are HIS players, on the whole, and aren't living in their past glories. He knows exactly what he wants and where he wants to go and no matter what the doom merchants say, it won't be Everton mark ii next season, in my eyes.

Many wanted Rooney gone in the summer, yet Moyes has got him playing his heart out most of the time. We have also lost a few good youngsters over the past few seasons but Moyes has tied a hugely talented youngster to a long term deal. He has added Chelsea's best player of the past few seasons to our squad and will follow that up in the summer.

Yes performances have been poor at times and yes Moyes can be criticised, but it is not all him. Do we sack him but let half the well under performing players get off without charge? very strange view if you ask me. He will be here next season, planes or no planes. He will have the chance to recruit further and clear out too. If this time next year we have no improvement then people will have reason to call for his sacking but not yet. The players we get in in the summer will be quality and whoever replaces Moyes, if that happens next season, will have a much better team/squad to start off with.

As disgraceful as it may be, at least it keeps the focus on United - the quality of our football surely isn't going to do that!

This has been a long time coming. Moyes's inability to maintain even a semblance of the spirit of MUFC, has brought out all the frustrations caused by the effects of the financial rape of our club by the Glazers and their debt infested takeover, and the consequential lack of investment in the squad.

Moyes, received a hospital pass, and he received it as one might expect would Tom Cleverley, as opposed to Roy Keane. He does not seem to possess the leadership characteristics required to be a manager of MUFC, and, as I've said before, it is hard to see a way back for him. I feel very sorry that he is being shat on because the rot is at the top. That should be the focus of the banner.

It says it all when even GDS isn't backing Moyes.

The fact of the matter is that we the fans just can't take anymore of this and have decided enough is enough. Not saying I am in favour of what is being planned but the message has to get thru to the board that we are not sheep and just accept less than mediocrity.

United fans as a whole are brilliant and really support the team even when results are going bad like the Liverpool game, where they were an absolute credit to the club. Any other top club would have had a revolt by this stage with players getting booed off the pitch that up til now has not happened and that IMO says a lot about this club.

However blindly supporting someone who does not seem to have the abilities to turn this around is personic and there comes a time when even the most ardent fan says this has to stop.

GDS I know I'm a pedant but don't you mean the 7 results against the other Top 8 teams. I also feel you are being unfair on Southampton by not making it a Top 9 assessment. All of our sudden our 1-1 draw with them at home has improved our stats considerably ;-)

Well this just highlights one of the things nobody ever gives Moyes credit for, stimulating the Manchester economy.

Not only does he ensure that extra stewards are employed on match day to protect his banner, now he's putting money in my coffers by enraging people to the point that they'll pay me to take out the old spruce goose and fly it over Old Trafford. Let me tell you times have been tough for the last few years, but Moyes has made sure that my family will have enough porridge oats to keep us nourished for the rest of the year. The Tories are trying to take credit for the slight economic upturn in the last year, but Moyes is an industry all in himself.

Last I checked it was a free country that allowed peaceful protest

Which is worse the chosen one banner that has to be protected by stewards in case someone takes it down and is retained regardless of what the fans think to the point it can only lead to the concern the club may have an influence on its retention or a group of supporters paying for a banner to show their feelings?

I think people have forgotten the Sexton protests and this is the modern day version because there is so much more control inside the ground now. See what happened to that protester who was led away and likely will have his ticket blocked. So if protest isn't allowed in the ground they are trying something outside. Still I doubt we will see it as somehow I think it will be prevented.

We should not care what anyone else thinks but they cannot expect us just to be good little fans who pay up and shut up. I see too many comments telling everyone to shut up and accept it, well if you have paid £50 you should be able to express your thoughts and when things are strictly controlled the protest moves where it can't be. Next some will call for the control of social media so we are only allowed to say how good the Chosen one is. The banner is freedom of expression like it or not

Brendan, As you and many others have stated this is in seriously bad taste and I hope that this is just paper talk and nothing else.
We can't completely judge Moyes on this current squad as they are simply not good enough.
I feel it is better to have the deficiencies in the squad highlighted in such a dramatic way rather than paper over the cracks for another year.
There are a few players that are well past their best who ned to retire or play a lower standard and there are other players who are simply not good enough that need to be moved on.
At least when Gary Neville's legs went he held his hand up and retired. He didn't even wait for the season to end. We have one or two players in that bracket now but they still ant to be at Utd next year. Don't suppse that has anything to do with money.
One of Moyes downfalls is that he has given everyone a chance this season which is fair but perhaps also a problem as with injuries we have not really had a settled sde.

Danny

LMAOF I love it, you are a good lad and if I get up there one of these day for a game all drinks on me.

Yeah not so sure I agree with the plane protest but would not call fans not proper fans for doing it because they feel they have had enough. They are as passionate as anyone - that's why they are doing it. No one has started to shout moyes out at the games yet but that does not mean they back him - most conversations I could hear coming out the ground the other night were saying they wanted him out. They are the people going to the games. THe singing is about defiance and pride in the club against the ABU's not backing moyes. Just wanted to point out to the Liverpool fan that it was not united fans who started the cleverley petition .

So 2 of the suspects have admitted to their involvement however the plot has thickened and Devil Dust is obviously involved in this case of the mysterious banner. I wonder who else is involved show yourselves :)

The banner was a bit strange to begin with tbh. Nothing should have been put up until he was settled and we were challenging again, makes no sense to me. Flying a banner over the stadium is just pathetic though.

Everyone has a right to free speech especially if you are paying money, but anyone would have needed
time to sort the squad we have out. Everyone outside our club recognises what a huge job Moyes has on his hands, from other clubs fans, to ex players, to journalists, so why can so many of our own so called fans not see this? I don't get it. The years of glory have clouded some older fans views I think and younger fans who have only known success are far too used to it that they expect it and it doesn't work like that.

What happens if Moyes is sacked and another manager comes in and is in the same position next year? do we sack and start again? Then what if the next manager after that doesn't get results? the pressure would be so so huge by that point that I don't think anyone would cope.

Like it or not, Moyes needs and will get until at least this time next year. If after that he isn't going in the right direction I think he will be replaced. It will not happen this season or before Xmas tho, no matter how many planes are flown and banners removed.

Everyone is entitled to there own opinion and if some fans feel the need to do it then that is there perogative, they pay good money to watch there team and let's face it-it has been terrible all season.
Moyes has not got a bloody clue what he is doing, he picks the wrong team, the wrong formations. Players are playing out of position, his substitutions in some games are just mind boggling and once the team go a goal behind he sits there next to that pathetic assistant of his with this glazed look on his face not knowing what to do next.
He's wasted close to 70 million pounds on players that we didn't need.
The Fellaini buy was just unreal. He was and never will be a United player and was purely a panic buy. Why Moyes felt the need to waste 28 million pound just to try and appease the fans is beyond me.
Then he goes and buys Mata for 37 million pounds, plays him out of position because he already has a player that plays that position in Wayne Rooney. By the way i'm not saying Mata isn't a good player, he is superb but did we really need him is my question?
Another thing that has really annoyed me is why did the senior figures like Gill, Fergie and Charlton allow David Moyes to come into the biggest club in the world and get rid of all the coaching staff who know what United are all about, it shouldn't of been allowed.
One of the conditions of his contract should have been that Phelean, Renee would stay to help him out.
Would I trust Moyes with 100 million pounds in the next transfer window, no I bloody wouldn't is the answer.
He simply has to go, just not good enough.

To be honest the issue with the banner has been bubbling for some time. And this has mostly kicked off because SEF are constantly dismissing calls to take the banner down as the wishes of a very small minority. Added to that is the recent clamp down on vocal dissent at Old Trafford and the threat that if you do protest, you'll lose your season ticket. In total, the club working very very hard to make it look like the vast majority of United supporters are fully behind Moyes, when in reality a growing number of us have serious misgivings. If you dismiss supporters' concerns and try to micro manage their behaviour, something like this is always a possibility.

Personally it would not be my preferred form of protest, I think that refusing to attend games and leaving a significant number of empty seats at a planned game would provide a far more dignified statement. However, this is what people have decided to do, and as petty as the form of protest is, it does go some way to articulating genuine frustrations that have been dismissed and policed throughout this season.

Brendan

We can all see the problems but Moyes is totally out of his depth and left to try and put it right could make things a whole lot worse. Simply Moyes is not the one to put it right. Put a Klopp in place for example and he would have my complete support because he along with other top managers have shown the ability but Moyes hasn't

Well, I may not agree with how they're going to protest. But if being mad and protest about the poor performances of your team is disgraceful, then Moyes can stay for life.

For you guys writing nice speeches makes you a good supporter, it's on you. The reality is that Moyes didn't do anything to deserve an ovation from the fans.

As long as he can show anything he can stay as long as he want.

Opinions are one thing Simmo, what certain fans want to is pathetic and to say otherwise is very strange. Mata and Rooney shouldn't be payed in the same position, Rooney is not a number 10 and never will be. Mata is for next season when Moyes has the personal to play the formation and tactics he wants to, not being shackled by our current, not good enough first 11. Fellaini was bought by Woodward after he failed to get any of Moyes main targets and thought we would get him cheaper when his buyout ended, How wrong he was, but not Moyes fault. SAF etc will have been aware of his coaching plans etc. Everyone whinged about Phelan for years but then wanted him to stay which was stupid, pretty sure the goal keeping coach was retiring anyway and honestly don't think Renee would have wanted to be here after SAF tbh no matter what has been said. With those 3 gone I think he was right to start a fresh and we'll be more settled next year for it I think.

Loyal passionate fans have an obligation to support the CLUB and not necessarily its personnel. It is right and proper that the Club understands the sentiment of the supporters as they are the fundamental first building block of the club and its priority customers. This dismal display of support for a lost cause it unbecoming and dishonest.

Red man, so you support a manager because you like him and not because he is United manager? Bit strange. So if Klopp failed miserably in his first season, it wouldn't matter because he has won a league in Germany with a hugely talented bunch of players, which he has had time to put together in a poor league of only 2 teams, where as Moyes was at Everton in a far more difficult league? World's gone mad.

Danny, in all my years I have never seen anyone being thrown into old Trafford or forced to renew a season ticket. Not happy, don't go and don't renew, a much bigger statement and not a silly, pathetic attempt. Also, how are United stopping people boo? Not seen many fans with gags on in the crowd. Just one guy who was screaming at Moyes from 20 feet. Did you want him left to carry on? Where else in the world would anyone be allowed to stand and scream and swear at someone who is doing their work without being taken away or punched in the face or arrested?

Good post Danny, apparently there will be a second banner, anyone know what will be on that.
When there is no way to communicate with the team/ club other than not go, frustration will build.

Brendan, I fully agree that not renewing and voting with our pockets in general would be the most visible protest. However, this season people want to protest too, and the season ticket holders have already paid for this year, so they can't go and demand a refund can they?

Not sure if you have been to a game this season, but Old Trafford has been pretty volatile. There is a lot of emotion in the stands and people are generally worried that showing any visible dissent or criticising Moyes will stir up tensions and even escalate into violence. So people are scared that if they boo, they will get a beating.

Again, I personally don't think that booing is the right way to protest and I think that the silent protest of empty seats is the way to really make a statement.

Picture sent to me showing the banner next to a plane in a hanger apparently shown on itv news.brendan everyone who sits near me is totally pissed off with what they have witnessed this season but haven't turned on the players and moyes so far but it will happen probably after we are dumped out of the champs league.i also don't think the glazers will risk giving moyes a large sum of money to spend and that he won't be here next season.when I spend a small fortune following utd every season I don't expect a guarentee of trophys but what I do expect is a certain style of football, pride in wearing the shirt and a manager who is tactically astute unfortunately I haven't seen any evidence of that to date.he might be a nice man but he is clueless no plan b and no idea on how to change a game, he waited until the 75 minute and 2-0down against liverpool before he brought on danny and cleverley what did he think those 2 were going to do?.we actually passed the ball really well against west ham and kagawa and mata looked good together so what does he do tuesday night drop kagawa to the bench and play cleverley who couldn't pass to his own player unless it was backwards.im sick of his lame excuses after every defeat, he isn't up to the biggest job in english football and needs to hold his hands up and walk away before he sets us back 3-4 years.

Brendan

What a load of tosh, so Moyes didn't have any say in the fellaini deal? Come on, pull you head out of your ear!
It was a Moyes buy pure and simple, for god sake the man worked as everton manager for 12 years and played with Fellaini for 3-4 years, surely there's a connection, it's pretty obvious really.
As for your comments about getting rid of the coaching staff to bring his own being right is the most stupid thing I've ever heard.
Surely the people who know about the club, who have worked at the club for a number of years would be good to have in your corner, its pretty much a no brainer that.

I think we are only delaying the inevitable. Moyes will get sacked eventually, IMO the sooner he goes, the sooner we can get back to where we were. One good thing is that Moyes is targeting the top quality players, so if (when) he is sacked, the new manager will inherit a good squad. It's important that if we have another manager in mind, that those players will suit that manager too.

For what it's worth, I think this banner thing is disgrace and I am embarrassed for us.

This is the sort of stuff those spoiled brats at stamford bridge do not us, but then gain there are people here at the moment, who seem to think anything is on and no such a thing as crossing the line.

Maybe we should have a banner with Red & White on it, to remind Moyes that we are Man Utd. Maybe he will change his tactics then!

The Green and Gold protest didn't exactly work did it, although it did create a lot of negative publicity for the club - how many marquee signings have we made since? Whatever your politics the team has to come first and this stunt is damaging us further.

I think it is pointless really and we need to stick with the manager in public and slag him in private (ish). Seriously though airing our dirty laundry in public isn't classy and is embarrassing. There are far more decent ways to make our disappointment clear, not stooping to this level. What next, burning effigies on his garden and his car on stumps, disgraceful idea to show our pettiness to a global audience.

If he goes who would want the job seeing this type of treatment?!

Simmo I'm not even getting into an argument with someone who hasn't actually read my post and scanned it for certain words they wanted to read.
Fellaini was a target, but we had other targets we wanted first and when Woodward failed to get them HE ended up paying over the odds because of HIS poor showing.

The simple facts are, Moyes is here, no matter how many arses hang banners out of planes, that won't change until mid next season at the very earliest and anyone expecting differently is seriously kidding themselves. None of us are enjoying the current performances, but some are willing to give the summer transfer window and into next season before truly judging. If I was like a lot on here I just wouldn't go to games and let my seat stay empty and let others do the same.

So he's here until at least mid next season? so what top manager is going to jump ship to us half way through a new season? and if he gets sacked it obviously means were in the same mess were in now and more than likely another year out of the champions league, will the beverley hillbillys risk that scenario who knows let's see if they have belief in him or put greed first.he isn't here long term so people will just have to get used to it and move on.

Everyone is entitle to there opinion, but I just don't get how some on here can continuously say to give moyes time? How much time do you give him? The seasons a shambles and what happens if it's the same next year after spending a lot of money? It could set us back another 2 years. I have no confidence in him at all, people saying he has brought in mata etc mata has been hopeless let's be honest. If Rooney was performing like mata he would get slaughtered but because it's the shiny new toy everyone expects he'll come good I certainly hope he does because he's fantastic on his day, but he's a number 10 and moyes plays him wide so he can accomodate Rooney and RVP which shows his tactical inability. Now I'm no past player or manager so therefore according to some have no qualification to comment but it's blatantly obvious we need a bit of pace and width it's not nuclear science but moyes can't see it he seems to want number 10's playing everywhere. Kagawa may start alongside vidic on Saturday. :-)

28 Mar 2014 09:01:17
Interesting comments from the Premier league chief executive, who stated that United's demise is having an impact on the Premier leagues global brand.
Such comments make me think that our demise will also have an extremely negative impact on our off field commercial activities.

28 Mar 2014 00:52:55
Banter please Eds.

Evening Gents.

Serious question, and please do not think I'm taking the mickey as I'm a Gooner and we have been in a slump for 9 years.

You obviously need to get rid of a few players and do some serious investing.

Now, Manchester United are a massive club, not just in England but all over the world.

You, just like Arsenal, need some very good players. The likes of Luke Shaw, Gundogan, Kroos, Pogba and Draxler, to name but a few.

Alex Ferguson, probably the best manager ever in world football, could attract these kind of players, but do you think David Moyes has the same personality and magnetism to make these players want to join Utd?

I don’t think getting the players’ will be a problem, DG. Getting the players’ to perform and execute want Moyes’ wants of them will be the problem IMO. Not sure the top European players’ know how to play an anachronistic brand of football

Players will come mate its all about those Benjamins :-)

Ouch Samthered, anachronistic is a strong word mate and a very damning word to describe United (if you meant it in that sense).

I hear what you are saying though and I truly believe Arsenal are in the same boat.

Our only plus point over United is we have a lot of players out injured, Ozil, Wilshere, Ramsey and Walcott. If we had them fit we would be in a much stronger position than we are at the moment.

CTR, you are correct mate, money talks.

Any player that would have come when SAF was here will come now Moyes is here. The only thing difference will be the cost of wages. A top top player may demand slightly more money, especially after the lastest Rooney saga, but as many on here say, 'that is the Glazers problem and not ours'.