Manchester United Banter Archive September 28 2018

 

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28 Sep 2018 23:00:23
The circus has truly descended on our club, all brought about by Mourinho.

Let's be honest, we all thought he would change his ways somehow and embrace Utd. He hasn't at all, our football has been dire for 5+ years (prior to Jose joining and we have seen no improvement since) and we may as well write off this season too.

I'll say it again, how much worse off could we be with a strong DoF and Giggs or young attacking manager in charge who understand what we want to see and embrace the old club ethos.

This was always a marriage of convenience for both parties where neither will admit it's not working and time to move on.

Believable4 Unbelievable5

29 Sep 2018 09:29:56
I wouldn’t all the blame at Jose’s door, sure he’s said and one things you cringe at but again why is anybody surprised, Ed Woodward, the club, the fans all knew what we was getting in JM, we know he’s chequebook manager, we know he won’t stand for certain players and attitudes so why are we shocked. The players need to take a lot of responsibility, is very easy to lay the blame on Jose but out on that pitch, the missed chances, the poor passing, the lack of effort, that’s on the players. Embarrassing comments like that from Paul Place is on him. I have been a staunch defender of Jose or more not repeatedly sacking managers but things cannot continue as they are, I think that we all agree we are not going to win the PL or CL and is an FA cup run/ win enough? Prob not, either way I see this as Jose final season anyway, I just hope when the next manager comes in, when we are in rebuild again and results don’t go our way every time which they naturally won’t in times of upheaval, that we as fans have more patience, I don’t want to see in 2 years another managers head being called for. Hopefully we have someone who embraces our traditions and way of playing, that our identity is back and not we can accept poorer results ulif we can see an end product coming. Maybe Giggs as manager wouldn’t have been such a bad idea after all, I do think ex players should be somewhere in the set up going forward. Anyway, West Ham away, a fixture we should win, I’d hate to think of the apathy if we are defeated today.

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29 Sep 2018 10:58:06
Welsh, I doubt you will see apathy if we lose, just more mad hysteria. Eric, we didn’t all think he would change, many of us called out the likely challenges and a couple are plain for all to see.

The football is safety first. Jose will say he doesn’t have the plate s he wants but he isn’t playing some of the ones he bought. He is pragmatic, whoever we buy I doubt we will see swashbuckling football.

The meltdown at Chelsea was never properly explained but it was clear he had lost the dressing room. I have no idea how things are in our dressing ro but the continual undermining of players isn’t helpful.

However, we need to detach Pogba from this debate as this is a completely separate issue. PP is a social
media tart whose reputation currently massively outweighs his contributions. Signing Pogba was a mistake on the football club not. It I am sure Woody loves the commercial aspects.

Back to Jose, if he has a plan then I’m not seeing it. We’ve bought a swashbuckling CF who hardly gets a kick, we bought PP but play him in a different position, it’s clear he has no trust in the CBS, 2 of whom he bought. I think he looks lost right now and who knows where that will go.

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29 Sep 2018 11:01:57
I despair of the continued calls for Giggs, he has become this mythical creature to some that will solve the issue. He has no experience bar four games and had much publicised personal issues in the press that I think the board may feel is not going to be helpful as the Manager. The only thing in his favour is if we appointed a DOF and the role became coach at which point the structure and back room staff remain but the coach is transitional far more than a manager. It would in effect move the club away from a stable long term manager, to more of a Barcelona model. Even so in the mess we are in inexperience is very very high risk right now and I doubt Giggs is in their thoughts. Giggs needs to manage a Newcastle and show he can make it work before we trust him. I said all this years ago on here and maintain that.

In terms of blame, easy to point fingers at the manager and he is accountable but a lot of responsibility lies with the players. Forming cliques, stamping their feet, not putting 100% in and behaving unprofessionally is unacceptable. They need to produce and start showing they deserve to wear the shirt and they should be sold if they don’t.

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{Ed001's Note - you do realise Giggs has been managing Wales for a while right? I think he has 5 games under his belt in charge of them to add to his 4 at United now. I don't think he needs to go to Newcastle just yet, I am sure he is fine where he is for now.}

29 Sep 2018 11:27:45
Ed001

Yes, I think he seems to be doing a decent job with Wales, but 9 games in total is not a CV that should impress United under its present set up. I agree it is not yet time for a Newcastle, that should be at some point in the future. It has to be said that Lampard and Gerrard are presently showing the way and perhaps showing Giggs the way. I wonder why such clubs didn’t take a chance with Giggs?

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{Ed001's Note - because his wage demands were out of reach.}

29 Sep 2018 12:05:19
Thanks Ed, very short sighted of him in my opinion.

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{Ed001's Note - he believes he deserves a certain wage level because of who he is and what he would bring to the club, in terms of players wanting to sign, sponsors wanting to give money etc. I think you are right as well and he certainly lowered his demands when he took the Wales job.}

28 Sep 2018 12:19:36
Pogba's attitude cannot be defended, but then neither can Mourinho's. To be honest, neither comes out of this whole episode smelling of roses. SAF was right to let Pogba go. I don't think we will experience any real success if Mourinho continues as manager. We knew what he was like before he was appointed. Fantastic manager - as long as he can buy a lot of good experienced players for large sums. But our club is different. Traditionally, we nurture young players.

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{Ed025's Note - WAS a fantastic manager you mean jodler, sell by date well expired mate..

28 Sep 2018 12:36:09
I think when Jose leaves he'll still win trophies elsewhere Ed025.contrast.

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{Ed025's Note - maybe with someone like salford city mate..

28 Sep 2018 13:35:46
I think Jose will walk into another top job after this, and will possibly win trophies. But he is yesterday’s man, a manager that stubbornly holds onto an undated style of play and refuses to learn from others.

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28 Sep 2018 13:36:15
I agree with ed025 here, Jose was a fantastic manager. I don't think he wants to change his ways, his tactics and that's where his problem starts. The premier league isn't what it used to be before, teams are playing some very aggresive football with very young managers so he needs to adapt or else he is going to find himself without a good chance of silverware in the premiership again.

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28 Sep 2018 13:14:16
Maybe you're right Ed025, Salford probably have a more of a chance of winning trophies than Everton🤝🤝🤝.

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{Ed025's Note - but at least we are good to watch mate.. :)

28 Sep 2018 17:26:10
What you doing Ed? I can only dish it out😂😂😂.

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{Ed025's Note - playing with fire you will always get burned scholesy mate.. :)

28 Sep 2018 19:23:35
Should have known, second coming of Mark Goldbridge you are. if you know who that is lol.

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28 Sep 2018 19:34:27
The less spoken about Mark goldbridge the better scholesy!

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28 Sep 2018 21:25:38
that's what i would say about him Park but he's actually a very nice guy.

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28 Sep 2018 23:40:26
Mourinho will be sacked and will walk into PSG. He'll win the league there, but even i can win the French league managing PSG. As ed025, his sell by date has long expired.

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29 Sep 2018 06:23:54
PSG have Tuchel, why would they give Mourinho the job when he's sacked here?

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28 Sep 2018 09:34:16
Now I'm not defending Pogba, his performances both on and off the pitch have been at best a mixed bag. Of course he has a right to live as he wants, get the hairstyle he wants, have the social life he wants and have the life style he wants. However, being in the public eye he will have to accept that certain actions will illicit a negative response. If he wants to be seen and respected as one of the best footballers in the world he has to act and perform like one of the best footballers in the world.

However, I struggle to understand some fans views on Pogba over this now very public spat with Jose.

Why is it okay for Jose to call out players publicly but not for a player to suggest the team should be playing a certain way?

I don't disagree with any of the comments Pogba has made about how the team SHOULD be performing.

Should he have said it publicly? Absolutely not, these disagreements should stay in house. However, can I blame him if his manager and leader is doing the exact same thing?

Jose sets the standard, the players will follow. If he is going to constantly throw players under the bus can we really be that surprised when one or two of them come out and try and defend themselves?

The whole thing is an ugly mess, no one has the high ground in this spat.

Both Pogba and Jose need to go asap. That probably means a January exit for Pogba. Jose should stay for now. We can't afford to make another snap decision. Zidane would be an awful choice. We need to bring in a DoF first, someone who can return an identity to the club, a continuity, in both philosophy and recruitment. Then this person whoever they turn out to be needs to find the right manager, the manager who they can work well with, a manager who will play with the correct philosophy and style. Then we can truly start rebuilding.

But before you can rebuild you need to knock down and clear away rot. That starts with Pogba and ends with Jose.

Believable17 Unbelievable1

{Ed025's Note - top post that shappy..

28 Sep 2018 10:33:58
Agree with your post Snappy. No one should be making these statements out loud but I do understand the frustration of some players who do not look interested in playing for the club anymore. As players when they look around at other clubs, they can see how other coaches have made even average players perform brilliantly. Under Pep and Klopp players like Delph, Henderson etc are playing great. Not that they are bad players but their game has definitely improved. And there are not just a couple but too many examples. Salah, Mane, Sterling, Walker and many more have turned into world class players under their respective coaches. Marcelo was always a good player but no one can deny that he became even better when it came to attacking under Zidane.
Whereas our players with potential have only regressed and the ones who were good seem like they are kicking the ball first time in their life. Of course they have no right to publicly make comments but it's no surprise that players like Martial and pogba are looking to jump the ship.

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28 Sep 2018 10:45:01
i think the fact pogba and his agent tried to get him a new club in the summer and his half hearted performances is the main reason us fans have had enough.

you don't see darmain kicking up a fuss or playing less than 100 percent because he didn't get his own way.

pogba is unprofessional and its not somthing we need in any football club nevermind our own.

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28 Sep 2018 12:46:56
Shappy (and anyone else) agree with you, top post ;just out of interest when/ if JM is replaced if soon who would you like to see come in?
No one jumps out at this time to me, but, not ZZ and please god never allardyce or i'm changing career to be an assassin!

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{Ed025's Note - at least allardyce would be an upgrade on the present incumbent cooky.. :)

28 Sep 2018 13:42:15
What two teams are I the best shape right now in England? Man City and Liverpool. How did that happen? Proper recruitment towards a philosophy over 2-5 years. In Manchester Cities case it was about bringing the two directors from Barcelona to set up peps arrival with the type of player he wants. In Liverpool's case it was the transfer committee buying the right profile of player to suit Jurgen Klopps style of play. Players between 22-26 years of age with an aggressive and expressive style of play along with a good attitude. Two clubs I can't stand. Unfortunately we are going to have to take a leaf out of their book and start this process. I cannot see this working with Jose. I think we are in better shape now then when he started after all the crap that was left after van gaals appointment but there's still no clear direction and philosophy. A strong director of football is needed with the goal of playing the United Way. If not then some sort of way.

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28 Sep 2018 15:48:41
I think if u lose the ball in your half with a lazy attempt at showboating and then you make a lackluster attempt to track back and atone for mistake, you should be the last person to say 'attack attack attack'. Had i been standing next to him I'd have given him a smack on the head for being a spoilt brat. That being said, we lack a captain who won't tolerate such nonsense on the pitch and will reprimand players who attempt this among other things.

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mbd              

28 Sep 2018 13:38:57
Allardyce? Is this a joke ed? I don't understand why would you even joke like that? Allardyce is another primitive manager with old ways and tactics, we need a young, hungry, determined and adventurous manager. Someone with a plan for the future.

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{Ed025's Note - i can joke about him RM because we have had the dubious delight of his management skills mate..

28 Sep 2018 15:05:06
ed025 ha ha mate- you're probably right . lol.

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28 Sep 2018 17:08:59
Cookyman, that's a tough one without actually speaking to potential candidates to get the measure of them. Eddie Howe though is a man I would want to have a sit down with and discuss his thoughts on the role.

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28 Sep 2018 19:42:07
I like Howe shappy. Issue is our structure from top to bottom is a mess. Expecting him to manage without a director of football could be a recipe for disaster. It’s no coincidence that the clubs who have worked on their restructuring of the running of their clubs are the ones who are currently reaping the rewards. City built for years before the arrival of pep. Our problem is far bigger than the manager. We have a non football man in Woodward running around expected to perform in the football side of things which just isn’t feasible.

Howe has some great attributes and could do some good things at united. But without the structure and support in place, he will crumble like Moyes, lvg and Jose. Moving from bournmouth to United is a big enough jump. I am sure we would play a better brand of football under someone like Howe. But he would end up the same way as the previous managers. There is an inherent problem in the club at the moment and changing managers may help in the short run, but until the fundamental problems are fixed, we will still be stuck in this vicious cycle.

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29 Sep 2018 09:57:00
Shappy- I like howe moreover the style of football he likes his team to play and also his conduct/ persona but not sure if a bit of the moyes syndrome re., too much for him too soon . I wouldve loved Allegri but that ship has sailed i guess so there ain't too many out there. I would guess blanc could be looked at but as an outside the box thought- Jochim low *SP*.

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Review Of The Day 28th September 2018

28 Sep 2018 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 28th September 2018

Believable0 Unbelievable0

28 Sep 2018 00:33:18
First time poster, I just had to say something.

So Paul Pogba spoke out publicly (more than once) and all off the back of their leader calling out players in public.

Would Roy Keane not say something in public with this current dictatorship (by the way Pogba is nowhere near Keane but hopefully you know what I mean) .

Now I understand no player is bigger than the club etc but how bad must it be in that changing room? And maybe Pogba is sticking up for himself and his team mates.

Jose has clearly lost his players. He is going about things totally the wrong way. Complaining, publicly criticising players, living in a hotel, blaming the board for lack of funds, blaming everyone but himself and most importantly blaming the fans.

Is this the actions of a true leader?

Unfortunately like Ed 002 said the "toxics" have brought this on themselves. "WE" have brought this on ourselves and I am sure in the back of all our minds we don't want to make the same mistake again.

We want to Win Win Win but what we are forgetting is that nothing in life is certain no matter how much money is thrown at it.

I don't know what the answer is but I know I love my club and I cannot stand seeing it turned into a circus.

I would personally be happy to see the back of "the special one", In my opinion he isn't special enough. We need someone who understands the club and we need to all get behind him and trust him. let's all be honest we never thought Jose would last more than 3 years so we couldn't do that.

Let's move on fast and make decisions based on football not Money.

United till I die x.

Believable13 Unbelievable8

28 Sep 2018 07:45:51
I don’t know how old we all are but a lot of us grew up and loves thru success of Fergie, 1990 I started supporting United and a few years later it was utter dominance and a lot of great football and top players so we will always compare back to that, prob unfairly as not everyone is SAF. I always go back to the point, the club and the fans knew al about how Jose Mourinho operates, how he spends money, how he calls players out who are not doing it so none of this should be a surprise. How many times do we sack a manager and hope we get it right, an identity, a DoF and a a philosophy need implementing and being the overriding thing with this club again. The trouble is us as fans will only accept a manger who plays the right way. As for Pogba and Keane, Roy Keane put the club first, he was united through and through I don’t think Paul Pogba gives a damn about this club if I’m honest and that’s the difference.

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28 Sep 2018 08:08:18
WE haven't brought anything on ourselves. I've supported the Club since I was a kid and have held my season ticket for over 25 years since I was old enough to catch the bus to Old Trafford with my friends and we all still go together to this day. I still support the Club, I go to every home game and Travel when I can get tickets, I have MUTV, I buy my kids the kit, the pyjamas, the bedding, the wall paper, the posters, the caps, the hot water bottle etc you get the picture. I give the Club thousands of my hard earned cash every year. I am entitled to state my opinion and pass comment.

WE had nothing to do with the Club sacking LGV and it's not our fault if the owners didn't have the courage of their own convictions. It's not our fault that LVG preferred to play more football in his own box than the oppositions, it's not our fault that forward passes were outlawed, it's not our fault that LVG failed to finish in the top 4 and got dumped out of the Champions League in the group stages. WE didn't pick the team, WE didn't devise the tactics, WE had nothing to do with it. After investing heavily in the squad WE expected better and merely voiced our opinion. WE still attended the games, WE still bought the Merchandise.

It's not our fault that the owners didn't communicate their plans. It's not our fault that they remain deafly silent.

It seems abhorrent to me that the owners would just abandon their plans because a few supporters had vented their frustration and with good cause. They refused to sell the Club despite some serious pressure and some pretty disgusting behaviour by some of our fans. Death threats, threatening chants, protests yet they stood firm and resolute. It is my belief that LVG failed to deliver the minimum requirement of a top 4 finish therefore he was dismissed. If the owners really did sack LVG because of some disgruntled fans then I have absolutely no faith that they will be able to return us to the top anytime soon.

WE are no different from any other football supporters. ALL Clubs have a minority of persons. Some people would have you believe that ALL football fans are thick, impatient, uneducated, thugs yet nothing could be further from the truth. Most know and understand the game inside out, they know what's good and what isn't. I read some very interesting and articulate posts on here every day yet now we're being labelled toxic for voicing our opinion and blamed for our current predicament. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you don't agree with my opinion that's fine but we should still be allowed to express them without being blamed for the Clubs current malaise. Sorry early morning rant over as you were!

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28 Sep 2018 08:26:03
Stunning post DLIB. Couldn't agree more mate.

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28 Sep 2018 09:29:39
Bang on the money dlib. that's why I totally disagree with ed002 on this matter. We are fans who love our club so have the right to voice our opinions. The owners are just businessmen who don’t give a dam about the club only there bank balance. Love Utd hate glazers.

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{Ed001's Note - have any of you read Swiss Ramble's blog post on United from a few days ago? If not I suggest you do.}

28 Sep 2018 09:35:47
Brilliant stuff DLIB, everything you've stated is true, it's not toxic to want the man in charge of footballing matters to present a team capable of playing something that resembles fluid football and it's not toxic to criticise certain individuals when they fail.

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28 Sep 2018 09:47:26
Burnley, you were in the running for my post of the year so far, but you lost me at the toxics comment, and handed it over to DLIB. Great, great post.

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28 Sep 2018 09:52:04
Hi Ed01 - Do you mean the Swiss Ramble Twitter thread on Utd's financial results? I'm not on Twitter but found the thread through Google? Thanks.

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{Ed001's Note - yes mate. Well worth a look.}

28 Sep 2018 10:37:29
Thanks for sharing Ed. Very intriguing and informative blog. What do you make of it if you don't mind me asking?

Salient points for me are Utd aren't reliant on income from players sales. This means we don't necessarily have to sell in order to buy. This may change considering the rise in transfer fees we've seen recently.

We have a cash balance of £242m which is significantly higher than most other Clubs.

Wages although astonishingly high are still relatively under control at 50% of turnover.

The Club are still heavily burdened by the debt placed on them by the Glazers. Our gross debt is still the best part of half a billion pounds. In the last 10 years we have made an operating profit of £651m offset by financing costs of £523m. However to place this in context financing costs have been reduced from 42% of revenue in 2009 to only 3% today. Could this be the reason why we we're often told there was no value in the market back then?

Our commercial arm is worth close to 50% of turnover emphasising why the Club place so much importance or securing new sponsorship deals.

Champions League participation is vitally important to both match day revenue and earnings. This increases significantly if you reach the latter stages.

In summary it would appear we're a financial giant capable of generating huge amounts of money. It's probably a good job for the rest of the league that we are still burdened by significant debt that we need to finance. Wages are very high and whilst financial results are good they are heavily dependent on our commercial partnerships whilst results on the pitch are also importable therefore we cannot afford to become complacent.

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{Ed001's Note - I think the big thing I took from it is that the Glazers have basically taken a huge amount away from the club due to their leverage buy out that is putting a strain on resources that should not be there. You could easily spend twice as much as you do without that.}

28 Sep 2018 11:35:18
im surprised they haven't tried selling the naming rights of OT yet.

would generate enough cash to clear the club of debt.

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{Ed001's Note - maybe they have but no one sees value in upsetting the fans?}

28 Sep 2018 11:43:22
Food for thought. That's what I took from it as well Ed.

The Glazers are basically using us as a cash cow to make themselves very rich and probably explains why we have no long term solution in relation to the football side of the business. I suppose this was taken care of whilst Fergi was in charge but when he retired he left a giant vacuum which we have been unable to fill. Their leveraged takeover basically saddled the Club with massive debt.

From an ethical perspective I'm not sure they should have been allowed to buy such a world famous brand/ institution of such significant historical and cultural relevance using borrowed money which they burdened on the Club.

Thanks again for sharing the link.

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{Ed001's Note - I don't think anyone should ever be able to use a leveraged buyout for anything. It is simply far too open for the kind of abuse that the Glazers are using in this case.}

28 Sep 2018 12:11:08
possibly ed. i personally wouldn't want that to happen as owners other than the debt they have haven't got involved with anything in regards to the football aspect.

we can all fault them but there are worse owners out there.

we could have mike Ashley.

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{Ed001's Note - how is Ashley any worse? He has not leveraged debt on the club, he has just taken large sums out. If they had the income you did, they would be able to spend like you did. They just don't have your income streams.}

28 Sep 2018 12:13:13
Fantastic OP again DLIB. Making a habit of being one of the top posters on this site. Keep it coming.

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28 Sep 2018 12:32:22
Completely agree end. The process of acquiring companies through leveraged buy outs are generally regarded as a ruthless and predatory tactic even in the finance world. The deal is structured so that the company's assets and cash flows are used to finance most of the costs. It is especially ironic that a company's success can be used against it as collateral.

The government blocked Sky's takeover of Utd in the late 90's arguing it would be anti competitive and would have an adverse effect on the wider football industry.

Utd were purchased by a leveraged buy out some years later meaning the Club were saddled with significant debt which nobody cared to argue might be anti competitive for the Club whilst placing one of the most famous sporting institutions in the world at greater risk of bankruptcy.

I believe some things belong to the people. Football Clubs belong to the fans. They are the true custodians and without them football would collapse overnight.

I don't believe any Club should be purchased on a leveraged buy out. Clubs have important cultural and historical significance and should be protected from rich owners who's only motivation is to get rich. Certain safeguarding measures or contractable obligations should be factored into any purchase so the interest of the Club can be balanced against the desires of the owners. My god I'm on my soap box today my apologies to all.

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28 Sep 2018 12:42:44
Sorry guys had to have a bit of a rant last night. I had a few beers and the embarrassment around our club is getting me down as I am sure it is with you guys.

I suppose I am looking to blame anyone even myself.

In the end I will support my club through the good times and the bad but it doesn't make the bad any easier to take.

We have been spoilt over the years and I just hope that the people around the club can make the right decisions based on Football and not for financial gain.

The sad thing is looking at my son who loves football, he plays everyday and loves watching football but not Manchester United. We go on old Trafford, I buy him kits etc but he is slowly getting turned off because of what's happening.

Like I said I will love my club through good and bad times as I am sure everyone else on here will do.

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28 Sep 2018 13:39:48
Really interesting read Ed001. I think the increased spending over the last few seasons has redeemed the owners in some people’s eyes. But the reality is that all the increased sponsorship stuff is simply servicing the debts that they created.

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{Ed001's Note - spot on mate.}