Manchester United Banter Archive June 29 2014

29 Jun 2014 23:33:36
Rodriguez ideal and only world class No7 since Ronaldo left.
Who do you think would make the new No 7, Realistic Targets Please :)

Sanchez

30 Jun 2014 00:29:48
Depay is in the same mould and more than realistic too

Januzaj

He is a brilliant little player but so is Depay.

29 Jun 2014 20:44:46
So who's leaving this summer then chaps?

Hernandez, Nani, Young, Fletcher, Anderson, Bebe, Zaha, Amos, Will Keane?

{Ed004's Note - I would let them all leave and Rooney included}

Be interesting to see what happens with Kagawa. I would love to see him play and do well here, but not too sure where he fits in now. I've seen the supposed quotes that LvG really rates him, but also read that they are not genuine and originated from twitter. One thing is for sure though, there are several players that need to, and will, leave.
I'm really excited and optimistic about next season. If only we could get Vidal, though I really don't see that one happening.

29 Jun 2014 21:34:04
Agreed Ed, bar Nani and Hernandez. I am interested to see what LvG can do with both players. They clearly have the abilty and maybe it is a case of fitting 'the system' which will make or break their careers. We all know how frustrating both are, but you never know, just maybe the change of manager and a little believe will help them finally progress and become more consistent! Or maybe not! But I'd like them to get at least 6 months under the new manager

I think nani will stay and LvG will try to get him playing. I don't know why but just seems something he would do. young will go and I think hernandez will go but used in a cash plus player swap as will ando

Looking through the squad the only players I'd fight to keep would be DDG, Januzaj and Mata (and one of Rooney and RVP).

Hernandez should have gone last season, Nani and Anderson should have gone two seasons ago, Young should never have been signed, Bebe and Zaha deserve a chance but will probably end up leaving over the next 24 months and Fletcher probably deserves to stay on as a squad player.

I have a sneaky feeling that Young may stay, but think all the others will leave.

Also think that Cleverly will leave; maybe to Leicester or QPR. His chances will be limited and after all the nonsense he needs to move on to kick-start his career.

Kagawa, Welbeck, Smalling and Young.

Deeps.

Nani, Hernandez, anderson, Bebe, Zaha will go in my opinion.

29 Jun 2014 19:45:27
Interesting Dwight Yorke thinks United have 7 signings left in them for the summer window shuts. Surely one of those has to be a proven cb like miranda, hummels or Vermaelen and i'm hearing the miranda signing could happen. Another midfielder would have to be looked at and Strootman would be the obvious signing when he returns to fitness but I think an Arturo Vidal deal would be too far fetched. Going forward I thing Alexis Sanchez would be the perfect signing as we need more pace and Memphis Depay also looks promising. Ed002: any interest in Strootman, Sanchez, Miranda or Depay?
Cheers

Never going to happen in my eyes, we won't even sign 7 in total. 5 at max and I think, and at least 1 of those would be a youngster for the future (not Shaw).

29 Jun 2014 20:29:05
I would be very happy with 7 players total for the summer.

- Herrera
- Shaw
- De Vrij
- Vemaelen
- Blind
- Depay
- And one of: Carvalho, Sanchez, Vidal, Robben would be brilliant IMO.

The first 6 IMO are realistic and from what's being spouted seems realistic at present.

29 Jun 2014 19:10:20
What a bout Blind as a holding player for the current season? He did a decent job today for Holland, much more mobile than Carrick, and of course he can provide additional cover at left back. Then maybe we can go out and sign a worldie next summer once we are back in Europe. For me, not a bad option for the present and could prove to be a very good squad player who is more than capable of playing in several positions.

I've not seen a lot of Blind before this competition but I'm always wary of signing someone based on their performances at a a tournament. Diouf and Poborski spring to mind.

He looked slow and distribution was bad today. I like him but he is more of a squad player and we have enough of them.

I fully agree AJH. But in terms of Blind he isn't a stand out player who has had a couple of moments of magic. He seems positionally sound, good on the ball and fairly stable. I would never expect him to become a Worldie or someone who will be a game winner as such, but he may prove a very useful addition, especilly as he seems to have the tactical nous in the holding midfield role.

The Beast, IMO he is better than our existing holding midfielders and squad players, i.e. Carrick (very much a has been, unfortunately), Fletcher, Cleverley, Anderson. And scene as we are going to struggle, this season at least, to sign the likes of Vidal and co, I don't think its a bad option. Without CL football, I feel our hands are somewhat tied

29 Jun 2014 17:59:55
Chelsea to win the league, city 2nd, if we get a cb and dm we get 3rd, arsenal 4th.

Just feel Chelsea have addressed their issues from last season. Fabergas in mf, zouma in def, costa up font with more possible signings to follow.

Huggy, I think you may be being a bit pessimistic. Nobody expected Liverpool of of challenge and they almost won it. There are a few key differences for us this year.

1. A a Manager who will clearly be in charge, any shirking and you won't play. He will also command respect so players who let themselves down last year will raise their game.

2. No European football. I know this was not what we wanted but we will have no midweek distractions.

3. LB and CM already secured, I'm assuming there at a couple more to come. So some of our weaknesses have been addressed.

I'm not suggesting we will win the league but if can buy 2 more quality players I think we will compete.

29 Jun 2014 19:38:10
Totally agree AJH. Do you think we will see the reverse of point 2. with Liverpool?
I could see them dropping out of the top 4 when their squad is stretched through CL and Suarez' absence.

In terms of our squad, CB and a winger next for me. Although I wouldn't baulk at another quality CM.

Covey

Yes, I can see Liverpool having a tougher season. They will have at least 6 UCL group games and other ELP teams are strengthening although if Suarez goes, they may have decent money to spend.

29 Jun 2014 21:14:12
AJH, All the points you make are valid, I just feel Chelsea and City's squad are a little more balanced than ours. I am of the view van gaal will need half a season to see what he has in the squad and to assess what he needs to win the league. I am happy with the two signings so far, but we need a lot more. CB and DM as well as a WF.

I will be overjoyed to be proved wrong. It's a win win situation for me.

AJH

I agree if we sign a high quality CB and another top midfielder we might win the league. City and us have the best stickers in the league, if you exclude hanibal who I reckon is f. ng off to spain.

29 Jun 2014 13:45:21
Ed001, what do you make of these Miranda rumours? £24m for a 29 year old is a bit much wouldn't you agree?

{Ed001's Note - depends on what difference he makes to the team. If he makes the difference between finishing outside of the Champions League and qualifying, then it is not that big a price. If he can be the difference between winning the title and not doing so, then he is worth it surely? After all, you can buy a young player but there is no guarantee he won't have a career ending injury.}

RVP cost that and he was 29 when we bought for roughly £25 million. He cold provide 3-4 years top defending

29 Jun 2014 15:00:43
Put like that ed then yes it could be worth it. Personally I hope we go nowhere near him though.

29 Jun 2014 16:28:29
Hatter the difference is van persie was already prem proven and adapted to England.

Miranda would need to settle and I'm not confident he would. We don't have the best track record with south Americans and van gaal doesn't usually go for south Americans.

i think his game is best suited for the Spanish or Italian leagues. He couldn't hack it in France and I honestly think he would struggle. For me given his age and the reputed fee its too much of a gamble.

We have known since January vidic was leaving. And 12 months ago we were speculating the season just finished would be Rios last. So we have known for a while this summer we would be in the market for one maybe two centrebacks. Yet no one mentioned this guy until the champions league final. In fact I don't think anyone really mentioned him till the last couple of weeks when he randomly got linked to us because everyone knows its a position we are in the market for.

So ed001 so buying shaw for way and I mean way over the odds is bad just incase he suffers a bad injury

{Ed001's Note - did I say that? Or did I just point out that there is a risk attached to every transfer, no matter how old the player?}

29 Jun 2014 12:54:41
Good week for Ed Woodward, signed Shaw and Herrera and got €7m for Buettner. Well it could rise to €7m.

A journalist is also saying Shaw isn't the most expensive teenager. He cost MU £27m with £1m in add-ons.

Not sure how accurate he is though, but £27m-£28m is a lot better than the £34m rumours.

{Ed001's Note - the fee was declared to the FA as £33m + add ons. I would suggest that is more reliable than a journalist Syd.}

Defo Ed001, I guess the figure 002 was talking about that Chelsea was quoted in January was £35m.

{Ed001's Note - I have no idea mate, I know you did get him for less than they were asking, but not sure what they were asking.}

Don't worry about the cost Syd it's not our money.

It's not the glazers either!

29 Jun 2014 12:20:57
Centre back is our most pressing need now, all great teams are built on an organised well drilled defence. You build from the back, and its important to get the right players in asap so they can start to build and understanding and create that strong unit mentality.

Its important to know what we need, its easy to get pulled into the idea that we need a big name. I'm not saying that the right player isn't an established name, but we need to consider the most important defender we have signed in the last 15 years was Vidic, who was not a big name when we signed him.

We need to rebuld the heart of our defence, so its important to know what is needed in a great defensive partnership. Some people say you need someone quick and someone strong, but in truth isn't it better if both your centre backs are strong and quick?

What is needed in any partnership is understanding, when it comes to the centre of defence in any situation one defender attacks the ball and attempts to win the ball or slow the opposition down and force them wide so as to buy time for other players to get back and defend. While one defender does that the other stays back to mark the space. So one goes to the ball and the other marks the space behind. If you want to see what happens when this organisation doesn't happen then just re-watch the Spain vs Holland game from the start of the world cup. There was no communication between Ramos and Pique so despite them both being top defenders they were exposed time and time again with either both going for the same ball or both dropping back and inviting Holland onto them.

In a defensive partnership you need one dominant and one submissive centre back, by that I mean one person who will take charge and organise the defence and the other willing to listen and follow out those orders.

We have three talented centre backs but none of them are leaders, Evans has the potential to be but I fear playing along side Rio and Vidic for so long has made him supress that part of his game. If he can rediscover that side of his game then maybe he could take up that role. But that's a dangerous gamble to take. We need a plan B as well.

Thats why we need to look for a centre back who is an excellent reader of the game and someone who will take responsibilty and control of the situation to organise our defence through clear and precise communication. That is the most important thing, and that is far more important than signing a big name.

Your completely wrong and unpatriotic Shappy. We already have three centre backs and that's more than enough for any club, and if we sign a new defender it will only block Smalling and Jones's progression. You're trying to encourage foreign defenders to come over here and take hard working English defenders' jobs. Shame on you, if I had my way you'd be sent to the gallows.

Shappy your usual common sense insights, however you failed to make any of your usual recommendations.

Good post. Just wondering how would your pick be shappy?

29 Jun 2014 15:42:46
Oh Danny, let it go. Yesterday's banter was entertaining but I have no desire to dominate another thread with our difference of opinion.

I know it might be difficult given your obvious difficulties reading and comprehending what I said, but how about reading my posts properly before going off on one (again). You are simply selecting certain points to support your point of view while neglecting others that give a more balanced perspective. Also, happy to tutor you to help you brush up on your literacy (you clearly need it).

They say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, so take a bow Danny.

29 Jun 2014 16:09:09
Danny we could well sign an English CB, I hear Titus Bramble is available. Lol.

I haven't given any recommendations as its very hard to pick up who is the the vocal defender when watching football on a screen. The camera tends to follow the ball, which means these conversations tend to happen off camera. So its very hard to pick out who is the commanding CB without actually being in the stadium.

For example if you watch United on TV you will see Rio shouting at his team mates, but this is only after a mistake has been made, if his reading of the game had been better he could have read the situation and communicated it to his team mates before it became a goal scoring chance rather than after the event. So unless you were in the stadium it might look like Rio is a good communicator, which he isn't. So as my job doesn't allow to jet across the globe to watch many matches a week it is very hard distinguishing who to move for in this situation.

One thing I will say is that you do see Diego Godin shouting and organising his team mates alot, so to me that would suggest that he is the leader in AM defence and not Miranda. But as I said without actually being at a game to watch them I couldn't be 100% sure.

29 Jun 2014 08:37:58
Do we think that our current crop of centre backs have a future at the club. I want to say yes but looking at age I am not sure they have come on as hoped these past few years.
Should we be looking to build, around what we have, bring in 1 older head maybe a Miranda and pick from who we have or buy 2 new ones for this year Miranda/de vries/Vermarlen, release one/2 of Smalling/Jones/Evans and bring through the young crop as back up.

If keeping keeping both Smalling/Jone /Evans means playing one of them a right back to give them game time I think one of them has to go. I predict that one of Janko and Varela could become as good a Shaw if they are given a chance.

I think, as most people have already commented, the concern with our current centre backs is trying to keep them fit, I think we'd struggle to get a full season out of Jones, Evans and Smalling if we added their games all together!, would like an experienced CB to help them through, ideally Hummels but think he'll be difficult to get, fingers crossed though!

29 Jun 2014 00:45:10
Does anybody know anything about what's happening with anderson? I've heard Fiorentina are unlikely to make the move permanent. Is anyone else interested, or will we be stuck paying his wages for another year? Also, he only has a year left on his contract and it'd be a shame to end up getting no money back for him.

According to Tim Vickery, he & his agent were trying to set up a move to Santos. No idea how that's going, though.