Manchester United Banter Archive March 29 2014

 

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29 Mar 2014 23:43:39
Several rumours flying around that MU are convinced that they have two signings secured. Carvalho and Garay.

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{Ed004's Note - Would be a good start to the summer. Get them in early. Though not see much of Carvalho. Worried about that signing as I've not heard or read great things about his passing etc something we badly need. Lars Bender seems a cheaper and better option}

Carvalho looks a decent player from what I've seen which to be honest isn't a massive amount . My only concern is he looks a 100% defensive cm and I'm starting to think that type of player is going to become outdated. I think a return to box to box cm is coming

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Jred, I tend to agree with you there but it really depends on how Moyes wants us to line up once he has the personnel he wants. If he wants us to play with 2 proper wingers we will need 2 box to box midfielders.If however he intends to play 4231 then at least 1 of the 2 will need to be a defensive holding midfielder, probably 2.
All the names being bandied about on here are really guess work because we don't know for sure what Moyes' plans are. To be honest, I'm not reaaly sure that Moyes knows yet. How we set up and the tactics we adopt going into next season may well depend on the players he is able to bring in.
Personally I feel we should move heaven and earth to get Vidal, as he would be an ideal player whatever the formation.

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Absolutely agree Vidal is THE player we should prioritise. If it's £50m and £300k a week he is one of only 5/6 players in world football who can demand what he wants. A beast of a player.

And the reason I'm backing Chile @ 50/1 in the World Cup (and yes I have seen their draw).

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Ed004, from what I've seen of him, he's worth every penny. His passing is limited, but he is strong, quick, and when he is playing opposition attacks seem to be coming from the wings.

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29 Mar 2014 21:18:06
Eds, did you remove one of my posts? One regarding the Moyes banner? If so could you explain why please, I. Wanted to post a reply but I can't find it. I apologise if I have missed it.
Anyway, great reaction today and good to see Mata on the score sheet.
KingGiggsy

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{Ed002's Note - We don't have to explain why posts are removed.}

Not going to get in to the pros and cons of moyes but after continued success over the last 20 years I thought the whole stunt was classless.
After losing fergy this was always going to be a difficult time and to be pulling stunts like this after 7 months of not being on top comes across as a little spoilt to me

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The stunt made me feel uncomfortable as I said yesterday but without going over old ground I watched the game in a packed pub and like it or not there was applause and some cheers when they showed the plane on the screen.

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Classless? Maybe. Then again were all human and all have very strong feelings on this subject. Personally it still makes me extremely awkward that we has 3000+ fans walk out on us to form and follow FC United then they proceed to sing United songs every game as though the club is still theirs. People who want Moyes out though are voicing opinions and thus actions of what they believe is best for the club. You can't change that.

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There are more than 3000 that have stopped going since 2005 and some of the ones who go to watch FC had already stopped because of money and they are united fans some still go to the odd united game and generally watch the games in the pub. Interesting to see what happens with Salford city being bought by Neville, Scholes, Giggs & Butt . Good derby games!

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29 Mar 2014 22:19:12
Banter please Eds.

Evening Gent's.

Just been reading some of your posts below, RE, who you want to win the league.

I know Manchester United and Liverpool have a long standing Rivalry and I totally understand your reluctance to see Stevie G lift the prem title, but would you really prefer Man City to win the league than Liverpool?

As far as I am aware, they are your local rivals and since coming to prominence a few years ago have done their best to rub your noses in their "success" (the blue poster of Carlos Tevez "Welcome to Manchester" springs to mind) and SAF's insistence that City are just "Noisy Neighbours").

As a Gooner, I would rather see Southampton (for example) win the league than Spurs, for obvious reasons.

I'm sure past history play's a part in your thinking but could you throw light on the subject please.

Thank's Gent's.

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If we don't win it, ANYONE but the scousers.

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Thank's for clearing that up

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My wife supports Arsenal, so I have to go against them - just deserts for her treachery! Although there's a side of me that thinks Stevie G deserves one for his loyalty and long service, and i'm a great admirer of Rodgers, the intense historic rivalry requires a no to Liverpool. And then how could one possibly like Chelsea, the plaything of that narcissist, Abramovich

So for me it has to be City. As painful as it may be, it's good for Manchester and maybe it will inspire us to react with the signing of the sort of players who can compete with them.

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Would much prefer another local team to win than the mickeys.

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Veron, Anderson, Hargreaves, Berbatov, Valencia, Young, I can carry on if you wish. every team makes some bad buys.

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Berbatov and Valencia had/have had good careers at utd.

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Hargreaves was a great player but injury-prone. Remind you of anyone?

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Hargreaves was hurt, for the year he was healthy he was a great player for us. Scored a fantastic goal on a free kick vs Arsenal

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Think.its harsh to call hargreaves a bad buy. He was hampered with many injuries unfortunately but when fit he was amazing. he was pivotal in our ucl win aswell. will always remember his penalty ;)

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Hargreaves had been having injury problems before he joined us. It was a big risk and it didn't work out (Gundogan?). Berbatov never really fit in. Despite being top scorer one year thanks to 5 in one game and a hat trick against Liverpool, his languid style never seemed to gel with SAF's approach. Both of these players were purchased in somewhat acrimonious circumstances, and probably soured some relationships. Anderson had also been injury prone in his short career, so was somewhat ill advised. Valencia was an okay purchase, but Ronaldo he is not, and his usurpation of Nani's right wing spot seemed to be the nail in the latter's career at United, so overall it was a negative. Veron did not live up to expectations, but compared to Djemba Djemba, Kleberson and Bebe - well, you make the call.

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I always liked Viv Anderson.

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Berbatov proved to be a shocking buy when you consider we in essence lost Tevez thru bringing him in.

The Ronaldo-Rooney-Tevez front 3 is best forward line we've had.

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29 Mar 2014 19:27:01
Whatever you say about Bebe, he has some talent.

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I saw the free kick, no one in our current squad who can hit a ball like that and awesome to watch. Unfortunately his crosses are more likely to find a spectators head than a team mate.

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Someone has been on the sauce since this afternoons game I see :-)

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29 Mar 2014 18:23:29
Have to say that Buttner has been decent in attack and ok in defence in the 2 games he's played.
He at least bothers to track back as he's quick.

Ribery/Robben might still beat him with their tricks but he at least has the pace and desire to be back in his position. Evra's suspension a blessing in disguise imo.

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Will be very interesting to see if he plays the second leg

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29 Mar 2014 17:51:00
I'd love to see an English influx of talent this summer with Barkley, Shaw, Coleman, and lallana all coming with a couple of further additions been Garay, Carvalho and maybe Kroos.
Thoughts?

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My first thought is Coleman isn't English.

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I said something similar the other day, I would be very happy with Shaw lallana and Barkley

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And Danny continues his title winning comedy form. Good work fella

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Maybe he means mustard for the canteen.

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But he still a top player Danny let's not be petty and if we were to get half this list I would be very happy. I think some players that will arrive will surprize many i'm putting money on Granit Xhaka and Ricardo Rodriguez for cm and lb I also think this season will see Garary finally arrive and if we get the first two I mentioned then I hope they can lure Xherdan Shaqiri here as well three players I have watched for a few season who would improve the first team no end

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Other mustards are available.

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I believe Luke Shaw and Garay will arrive.

After that, I am not sure who the CM's are besides the reported carvalho interest. Gundogan looks unlikely as no one will take a chance and the season is almost over now.

Kroos does not exactly fit the bill and going by previous attempts of trying to get modric, febregas it is obvious we are after a scholes type player who can sit in the middle and spray it around and score a few. Maybe Herrera or someone who is not a household name.

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I don't understand why you would want Barkley if you had Carvalho and Kroos. I'd rather have genital warts than lallana apart from that good shout.

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The arrogance amazes me. If you couldn't get Baines either last summer or in January why the hell do you think Coleman would consider a move up the M62? Fellaini accepted the poisoned chalice and even he's concerned about his World Cup prospects at the end of the season. David Moyes look elsewhere. Everton don't need to sell and if they did why would our players be looking to move to a mid table club offering nothing better than what they would already have at Goodison next year?

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Baines never said he would come hence why he didn't Fellaini said he wanted out and he came if Coleman or Barkley say they want the move then it will happen sorry to burst your bubble Daveyboy

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Daveyboyboy Blue

If we really wanted Baines last summer, he would be wearing red right now.

It's not arrogance either ffs. Get over yourself. We were linked with him so we're going to discuss it whether you like it or not.

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That's cr*p and you know it."If we really wanted Baines last summer, he would be wearing red right now".?
The fact is Baines was number 1 on Moyes' shopping list and despite derisory bids for him and Fellaini, you ended up paying over the odds for the mop because you thought you'd get him on the cheap once the contract clause had expired. Baines was never going to Utd. He has a World Cup to look forward to with a team that is going to qualify for Europe next season.
So hands off our talent-and I include Coleman and Barkley here as well. They are playing better football for a better manager in a better team.

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Daveyboyboy Blue, you talk about us being arrogant and you go on like that! Pahaha I look forward to next year when you have no Lukaku, Deulofeu and possibly Barry if he has any sense

I would happily suffer this season without a good LB if we end up with someone like Shaw come summer. He's looking like a better prospect than Baines and he'd cover the position for years wheres Baines may have 2-3 more good years left in him? Be paying similar money for both so why not the younger option.

Only player I'd take from Everton would be John Stones, lads going to be world class imo

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Its nice to see Everton having a good season they are a good family/community club but some of the fans coming on here like there is competition between our clubs is quite simply ludicrous your one season in sun daveyboy is exactly that! once your loanees have gone somewhere better and Bill Kenright has given the thunderbird puppet his annual transfer kitty of £23.78 you will be back where you belong let's remember regardless of how much you slag DM now the fact of the matter is we asked him to come and he couldn't wait much the same as Fellainni so maybe concentrate on your own banter page and discuss who will be a better option in the summer, Charlie Adam or Danny Ings that is your level.

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Posted this back in february and believe Both scouser teams will have a very poor April. Still a chelsea/city run in. If aguero is back City wins it.

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29 Mar 2014 17:12:19
Could any of the eds or anyone else shed any light on the rumours nike have agreed a deal for the naming rights for Old Trafford. I think they have stemed from Richard keys. Thanks

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{Ed002's Note - There have been discussions about this but I am not aware of any deal being "agreed".}

29 Mar 2014 17:32:28
Outside our decline this is really a great season. A new wrinkle every weekend.

The Palace Chelsea match was intense, with Palace fully deserving of the victory. Mourinho was quite classy at the end. He swallowed his obvious disappointment and gave Pulis a hug and a pat on the back. But what about Marcus Wallace?

Now I have to watch City at Arsenal with my treacherous Arsenal supporting Mrs.

Could this be Liverpool's year? I wouldn't bet against it. Those home ties against City and Chelsea are surely the deciders.

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Peashotter - do not bet AGAINST it

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29 Mar 2014 16:41:20
For those watching the chelsea game it is quite odd how good teams when they go behind they can lose their entire shape.

Palace should be up 3 or 4 and have this game put to bed. In a weird way I am hoping chelae come back and score a couple of goals as this is all perfect for the scousers.

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I wonder if AJH & Co still believe Chelsea are favourites to win the league? If City win today, it's gameover for Jose.

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I backed city way back in mid August and 5/2 or 7/2 if am not mistaken.

One thing for sure pool fans must be getting all excited.

I actually bet a draw on the chelsea game today :(

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I have a horrible horrible feeling the scouse are going to pinch it

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GCU I would have thought you would have backed us with your faith in our managers ability and the great signing made in Fellaini!

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I thought of posting earlier Syd, no, Chelsea have blown it. Worryingly if ArsenL beat City, which looks unlikely, the Scousers are right in it. Never thought I would be 'cheering' City on

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Pancho

The difference between us is even before the season started I acknowledged we will be in trouble given our disastrous summer window, whilst some around here were still punch drunk on us winning the title last year.

I never rated last years team either and it was just a poor league with all our traditional rivals having major issues evident by the fact that only one English team made it out of the CL group stages.

Am I surprised with our struggles yes but not as much as some of you guys.

Fellaini is a lot better of a signing than some of the players we have signed in the last 5 years and not some stiff like you make him out to be.

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City have had a poor season and lost both games to Chelsea. They should have won this league this season by double figures. If City win today, then it's pretty straight forward for them. I think City will beat Liverpool at Anfield.

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Syd

I think Chelsea will beat liverpool at anfield but betting city for a loss or a draw at anfield.

Chelsea is a more difficult match up for the Scousers than city because of the nature of their midfielders and their back four.

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Jred

I hope you are wrong.

On another note, Looks like Thiago has injured himself and will be out for both legs.

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An other 8 injuries and we might have a chance

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Jred

we are like the walking wounded and glad we came out of today with just one injury. Might see Ferdinand and Vidic on tuesday and jones playing right back.

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On the contrary GCU I never thought we would win the league again with the squad we had we have needed few better players than we have - for the last 3 or 4 years . However I didn't expect us be so bad with the same squad and 80 mil spent. It is a difficult task for moyes but he could have handled it better and if he was up to it would have done .

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Pancho

Moyes is responsible by some of the blame but never to the extent that people here are talking about.

I think it is a 80% quality of players and 20% manager thing.

We can at least agree that we both thought we would not win the league and I am also surprised by our struggles. I think we underestimated how difficult it is to take over from Fergie and how good a manager fergie was. Maybe he was worth an added 10 points a season as people used to say.

Funny enough an extra 10 point should have us in 4th place and just off third :)

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I think the top managers not just SAF are worth the extra points, that is why they are generally at the top and why Moyes isn't.

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Many never won a thing until they ended up at the right club and then won loads. Hero today goat tomm or vice versa.

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29 Mar 2014 16:15:41
Quite a relaxed game really, both teams didn't look under any real pressure and that led to a reasonable game to watch. Good to win and score four goals especially at home but we should reasonably expect to do that when Stoke beat Villa by the same score at Villa's own ground last week. Rooney and Mata stood out for me and Rooney seems to suit the lone role up front with more fluidity around him. Villa actually played some decent football at times but they were loose at the back and we took advantage. Probably the key time was when it was 2.1 just after half time and Benteke missed two golden chances, once we got the third it was all over in reality. Januzaj had a good little cameo and his cross for the final goal was excellent.

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Sully stop it. LOL

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The key was we beat a team that beat Chelsea 2 weeks ago and has the sousers on the ropes at anfield and unfortunate to get a draw and we were just better and could of had few more.

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Who's Sully?

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Sydney

LOL, read further down the page.

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Its the hairy guy from Monsters Inc who scares the kids :)

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29 Mar 2014 14:48:57
First and foremost, well done to the fans that clapped Moyes on in spite of that rediculous banner in the sky before the game - I think its disgraceful and couldn't possibly hope to achieve anything anyway.

Secondly, the performance. That was much better and a welcome return to some goal scoring. Rooney was really good, Mata was exceptional behind him the wider two of Kagawa and Young looked quite impressive. Kagawa drifted centrally and swapped intelligently with Mata whilst Young provided some good width and used his pace well down the right side. Our forward play is not something that I am concerned with and I think it's the last priority in the summer. As I have said, everything will improve once the midfield two changes. Fletcher was okay but didn't do much and Fellaini was very good. The fact is, against the middle table teams outside the top 6 or 7, he is good - against better opposition he is not effective.

Obviously also the defence is problematic, on Tuesday night no matter who we play at left back they will be roasted. Buttner got taken to the cleaners by Albrighton on multiple times (doesn't even compare to Robben). Rafael injured? Carrick having to play at centre back. Even with a fully fit defence it probably wouldn't be good enough, never mind a make shift one. I just wish we were going into this Bayern game with Gundogan, Garay and Coentrao. I would feel more confident.

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I'd feel more confident having Ronaldo on the wing instead of the dross we've got but that isn't going to happen either.

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I totally agree! But I think two first choice central midfielders, a new centre back and a left back ought to be priority. Then we can look at the right back spot and winger.

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Fresh

I agree with this patched up defense, we might be in for a long night. Anyone know if evans or smalling are back in training or still out.

I also think Robbery and Robben will have a field day with us and not sure how you can neutralise them with the players we have.

On another note I think Nani has played 3 games this year not bad for a guy who is on 90k a week.

Awfully quite when we win and nothing to bitch about, just a strange site this year like some of our results.

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GCU

Interesting you commenting about Nani, who was it who gave him a new 5 year £90k a week contract again?

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Red Man

Are you being serious. You are obsessed with your dislike for the manager. He gave rooney and janusaj a new contract too.

I am not a fan of nani but he has been injured and we could use some able bodies for tuesday night.

Many clubs give players an extension and end up selling them 6 months later. Teams in South America, Spain, Portugal, italy have made a living doing this. The alternative is seeing them go for free.

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Is Nani Evans and Smalling fit for Tuesday night or are the still out

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CGU

Your quote was "note I think Nani has played 3 games this year not bad for a guy who is on 90k a week"

Nani is a player who should have been sold last summer if not before but instead and incredibly was given a new contract by the manager which given how much he is paid, how he has played for the last two to three years and his 3 games this season means we will find it difficult to offload him anytime soon. That's circa another £5m for virtually nothing and if we can't shift him we have four more seasons of it, we would have been better letting him go for free but I forgot you don't allow criticism of our imperious manager.

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29 Mar 2014 13:57:03
In corporations management changes are normally the result of one of four situations, natural evolution, acquisition of higher skill sets from outside, retirement of key personnel, or failure.

At the top, the Board of Directors are responsible for setting the plate, providing the capital base from which the managers work, and defining the ethos of the enterprise. The managers are responsible for maximizing the return on what's provided to them. SAF was arguably the best manager ever, but he retired, leaving what many of us would consider a half empty plate. This is because the board have failed in one of their primary responsibilities - to provide the necessary capital investments, although In my opinion the inadequate funds that were provided were generally not invested wisely by Ferguson towards the end of his career, and in the short term, in the wrong places by Moyes.

Ultimately the art of management is about leadership, organization and motivation. Ferguson may have made investment mistakes, but he knew how to get the best out of his team, to make relative journeymen key cogs in a successful production. Whether a leader is ultimately the best person to select his successor depends on whether the retiring leader still understands the product and the market, and I think there were signs that SAF's approach to tactics, youth development, agents etc etc were heavily vested in the past. As a result Moyes has been given a massive job of not only rectifying the affects of poor investment decisions, but also of changing the philosophical core of the product - rather like a newspaper responding to the internet etc.

Is this man, with his similarities in background to Ferguson, but with no record of winning, someone who can handle this massive task within the time frame the Glazers will need to maintain the value of their investment in the club?

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29 Mar 2014 13:39:35
I wanna start by saying how dissappointed I am in some of the fans for flying that banner before the game. no matter how much you don't like moyes, I think that was a disgrace. I thought it was great that moyes came out of the tunnel on his own and the crowd clapped him.

now to the squad. yes it is the same squad that won the title last year plus mata and fellaini, but, it is an ageing squad. if you add a year to vidic, ferdinand, evra, carrick, giggs, they may not be as good as they were last year.

everybody wants us to play 4-2-3-1 and I agree. moyes has even said that he wants to play attacking football. its interesting that we have been playing that formation against west ham, crystal palace, villa and the lower premier league teams. do you honestly think if we played that formation against chelsea, liverpool, man city, arsenal, tottenham that we wouldn't get torn apart? people wanna say that our defenders are too old and not good enough, our midfield is weak, yet they are the same people who want us to commit players forward and be massively exposed on the counter attack. I thnk that moyes is in a very hard situation with him trying to change formation, not having the players to do it and still trying to get results to please everyone. would the fans be happy with us playing 4-2-3-1 every week but loseing even more games cause our terrible defence and midfield can't deal with the counter attack?

people are saying that moyes should have taken the transfers that fergie lined up and kept the backroom staff, seriously? every other manager in world football brings in their own backroom staff who they have worked with for years and decide on who they want to sign but people expected moyes to be a substitute for fergie, that would never work. on garay and people saying we should have signed him in the summer, we have vidic, smalling, jones, ferdinand, evans. that's 5 centre backs! the premier league has a squad limit of 25 over 21 years old and people wanted us to carry 6 centre backs! I think garay will come in the summer when vidic and ferdinand leave. I think we have to go all out to sign shaw at lb as he is 18 years old, and english international now and most importantly, he is english! if you can get a world class englishman then get him!

im not pro moyes or anti moyes but i'm a united fan and I will continue to support the club and mangaer. this club has given me 19 years of happiness and I will repay that by supporting them in their time of need.

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I am absolutely furious with those persons to pay for the banner. I don't want Moyes to manage our club but till the time his is managing us, he is our manager and we have to support him. Qudoos to those fans who clapped and supported him. Great reception and ovation. Hope we will win today!

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29 Mar 2014 13:13:52
Absolutely fantastic ovation for moyes when he walked out before the team, I hope we can perform for him now

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29 Mar 2014 10:58:33
Ed002 Inbound: At right back the club are looking at Santiago Arias and Seamus Coleman. Centre back, ideally Mangala and either Ginter or Hinteregger would be the first choice centre backs but don't rule out Manchester United showing an interest in Aymeric Laporte or looking to Astori as an experienced option. Midfield, Carvalho remains a midfield target and I understand a deal can be done, although the club would ideally like Vidal. Gundogan, if available, might be seen as too much of a risk. There is interest in Kroos but Bayern Munich would like a new deal and Barcelona are also showing interest. At left back, Shaw is of interest but the price being asked might well make the club to look at other options such as Valencia's Bernat or again at Coentrau or Yuto Nagatomo. Wildcard: Ricardo Centurian, but a work permit may be an issue.}

Arias plays in the Dutch league so never seen him, Coleman is good but I expect expensive and given the wonders Moyes did in managing Everton (had to get that in lol ) they may not be forced to sell. Mangala very expensive and a risk though I like what little I have seen, Ginter very young and a lot of clubs want him. Hintregger again one for the future, Laporte same and has had very few first team games, Astori very good and established.

Carvalho huge potential, fast, positioning and tackling top notch in his league (Portugal same as Mangala) again as Danny Pug said a risk. Vidal, my fav player for the last 3 years, I just don't think he's moving sadly. Gundogan exciting but a huge risk with his injuries. Kroos great player and alongside someone like Carvalho very intimidating for our opposition.

Shaw big prospect but very expensive for what he's done another risk ( All these high risk players and some of you say Moyes is scared to take risks), Bernat young and one for the future would be shocked and stunned if he was our first choice LB. Nagatomo, I've watchd a few times now, since Ed002 first mentioned him, very fast excellent going forward, gets back but not great in defence. Coentrau good player.

I agree with GCU, we need 2 wingers, and really hope we get 1 this year, our attacking players lack a bit of pace.

If I had to choose from the above ( for first team options not potential) :

Coleman

I'm sort of stuck between Astori (safe option) and Mangala, but seeing as its not my money and its easy to risk others, Mangala.

Carvalho and Kroos (Cause I really don't think Vidal is moving).

Coentrau.

I'd love to add a Reus, Griezmann, James Rodriguez or even a Di Maria to that but 6 top players is a lot.

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Theres no risk taken unless we actually buy these players, let's see who we do sign first.

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29 Mar 2014 09:48:58
Players to leave United this year for sure Vidic Evra Giggs Anderson Ferdinand most likely will leave Fletcher Young Macheda Bebe Nani Amos could leave but probably won't Valencia Carrick Kagawa Hernandez Lindegaard Amos

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{Ed004's Note - Can't see Fletcher or Young leaving}

I can't see Kagawa leaving either to be honest

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The fact that we have so much work do to on the defence and midfield I doubt that anyone more than Nani and Hernandez will be leaving.

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29 Mar 2014 08:19:02
Rumour one of the players we are in for in Diego Costa and trying to get a deal done before the world cup. I know chelsea want him and surprised we are after him. We would need to see hernandez and maybe one more striker if true.

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Moyes has publicly praised Costa in the past.

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29 Mar 2014 04:36:05
Hi guys!
My 1st post here. We all know that our beloved club needs a major rebuilding next season, and we are surely going to buy some players but the thing I want to know is are we really after world class players or again bunch of future potential ones?. Moyes has been busy man scouting lots of players and according to him, that's all for summer.Is he really going after world class players? I would personally choose VIdal and gundogan for our midfield as with their superb command in midfield, they would make our midfield the best one in EPL. For wing Reus is my 1st choice(though its a dream ) if not him then Di Maria would really be good as he is pacy, creative and delivers beauty crosses.In my view he is one of the most underrated wingers, and he wouldn't cost much too. For defense, Shaw is obviously everyone's choice but I wouldn't mind if we buy coentrao too.As for CB I think Garay could be the one as Jones, smalling can really flourish and Evans is still there.

That's my opinion guys but won't matter if Moyes is after some future potential ones, would it :)

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29 Mar 2014 02:46:31
Guys,
We have to give Moyes a chance. IF anyone here is familiar with any organisation structure (and Manchester United is an organisation - whether we want to admit it or not), they will understand. Change Management is hard. Particularly when it comes to a huge fan base like Man Utd.

Man Utd will finish in the top 4 next season and the following we will be champions again.
Its hard to take what we have endured this season - for everyone, but honestly - you have to be realistic. Moyes IS the man for the job. He will lead us to glory if we give him time. We have been overloaded with success because of Alex Ferguson (he was a ferak of nature with the midas touch).

I do find it funny that the majority of people that want Moyes out are the same people who last season and the season before wanted Fergie out - but now fergie has left these people are lost.

A dynasty is not built in 1 season. If we give david moyes a chance he will bring us dominance, but not for one season - for a decade +

I would ask anyone who doesn't agree with this to google one caption "Change Management challanges"

Hoping we turn the corner soon! :)

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Cheek sadly I can't share your optimism. You're correct in saying a dynasty can't be created in a season but it can surely be destroyed in one.

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Sensible post. I agree that calling for Moyes' head part-way through his first season is a little hasty. He deserves to have the chance to make his own team.

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I have a lot of experience of change management and the handover was amateurish. However, when you look at what SAF inherited and compare it to what Moyes got it isn't in the same sphere. Moyes inherited the Champions chomping at the bit wanting to believe, however his lack of experience and not having won anything means it is impossible to believe in his methods both for us and almost certainly you can say that about the players given the commitment or lack of it they have shown this season. Moyes old club are showing signs of the negative shackles being released, his old players talking about the new positives and improved tactics, Moyes old club fans wouldn't have him back. Moyes knows one way and is good at getting the most out of relatively good players, but has never worked with top players and my thoughts are that he is struggling because he only knows one way. We needed a leader and got a workmanlike coach and that isn't enough at the top level.
He has to go to protect the future of the club whose football image is being severely damaged by his negativity right now

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Cherk,
While I agree with you to an extent, "change management" in a business organisation is very different to that of a football team. It may well apply to the corporate side of Manchester United, but the football side is very different. Do you honestly think footballers are interested in buying in to all that. Footballers want to play football and win trophies.
The responsibility for managing change lies with the management, not the employee (in this case the players). So far, it would appear that Moyes has not done very well at this. In my opinion, Moyes' biggest mistake was coming out and saying publicly that the squad was not good enough, and lacked quality. All this about a team that has just won the league at a canter.
He didn't have a good start in the job anyway, but what way is that statement going to motivate his players, and get them to "buy in " to his ways and methods.
There is saying which we all know, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Moyes did inherit a team that needed freshening up, but he has tried to change too much too quick in my opinion. A few new faces to go with the quality we already have was all that was needed.
The players have ability, but in all sport, application is more important than ability. These same players applies themselves under SAF, but they have not under Moyes. The players must take a fair portion of the blame for that. But Moyes has to take the brunt of it because he is the manager, and he has failed to motivate his players.
I've said since day one he should be given time, but he has showed nothing at all in 9 months. I know there is an argument that we won't see his vision until he gets the players he wants. But if he can't motivate these players, what's to say he can motivate the players he brings in? He is a decent, honest man. who did a good job at Preston and Everton. I'm not overly worried about the fact that he hasn't won trophies, but more so that he is not used to working with top players with big ego's. He just does not seem to have the confidence or ability to manage them. His whole demeanour is negative, and it has rubbed off on the players.
United do lack quality in some areas, but he should never have come out and said it in public. Have you ever heard another manager of a top team do that? We still have RVP, Rooney, Kagawa, Januzaj Mata (for a short time admittedly) Carrick, Valencia, Nani etc etc. Some have been missing through injury fair enough, but there is more than enough quality in that squad to be at least challenging for top 4. We have massively under achieved this season, and Moyes must take majority of the blame.
Going back to the original point, you are not the first person on here to bring a business argument. But like I said, the football side of things is very different. In business, how many people do you know that sign fixed term contracts, and then get the remainder of that contract paid up in full if they are dismissed for poor performance?
Also, how can you say that Moyes IS right for United, that we WILL be top 4 next season, and we WILL win the league the season after? If you do know this for sure, is there any chance you could give me tonights lottery numbers? :)

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Betty

"the responsibility for managing change lies with the management, not the employee (in this case the players). So far, it would appear that Moyes has not done very well at this."

Even though I agree with a lot of stuff that you post, on this one I have to disagree mate.

I have gone through two of these in my corporate career before going out on my own and had Mckinsey and PWC, who are renowned for this, riding shot gun and helping us through the process. A few things that change management is all about:

1. Management driven but the people in this case players have to buy in and it starts at all levels of the organisation and not just at the top of the organisation. Then you have the additional layer of complexity of fans and media that also needs to be managed in our case because of who we are.

We talked about flag bearers for the change at every level and one thing that is probably making it difficult for him is these players are not his and have no alliances or history with him with the exception of Rooney funny enough. I don't believe he has the support of every player but that is not relevant if there is desire to change things.

2. The average time required to see initial results in great organization is 2 to 3 years minimum, which is subject to constant reinforcement and total commitment during that process.

3. There will be those who don't buy into it and will be disruptive. In a football clubs case I am again assuming it is more complicated as you also have to consider the fans, the players and traditional media and social media, which can be very disruptive and makes managing the change extremely difficult in today's day and age.

I have personally experienced this and people who publicly say the right things but in practice are very disruptive and resistant to the change. Unfortunately they must be cut and let go no matter how important to the company.

I do agree with you about one thing that his statement are not helping when it comes to the players but not privy to what is going on inside the club.

In summary this is a monumental task for anyone and I can understand why we are so divided on the issue because there are those who believe he was the wrong guy even before he started.

If he is still here next year I believe we will see exits of players for footballing reasons and some for resisting change.

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Good post Betty swallocks.

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GCU, I take your point that the employees (the players) have to buy into the process. But this will not happen if he does not get the players "on side". I'm not sure he had the dressing room anyway, but I feel he certainly lost it after his public statement that the players weren't good enough.
I don't profess to know everything about business organisations, and what I do is more in theory than practice, attained from further education in Business Studies and Economics.
My main point though was that "change management", while relevant to business organisations is probably not a good model for footballers. Can you imagine your average footballer discussing it, let alone going through the process. Probably something along the lines of this:

Moyes: Right lads, were going to be doing something a little different today. No football, we're going to be talking about change management. Sir Alex was here since the Battle Of Hastings, but now he has gone. Things are going to be different, so I just wanted to talk to you all today about the new processes I want to bring in, and discuss with you how you feel about it.
Right, let's start. Wayne, how do you think we should manage the change?

Rooney: Erm, erm well I think we should put two buckets on the floor in the changing room. Coppers in one, silver and quids in the other.

Stoney silence. Steve Round giggles. Players all looking confused.

Moyes: Right lads, change of plan. Phil, you get the balls. Steve, go get the cones. Put your boots on lads.

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Betty

Made me smile. I think the magnitude of the change is underestimated by the average fan who just wants us to win no matter what.

It did agree with you on the fact that he should have not made that statement.

I have 25 bets on today and nice start to the day :)

I think he will keep his job until next week or not depending on the Bayern result:)

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CGU

In terms of change management the experts will tell you it may take a period to make the overall improvement required but they want and expect the client to see some signs of benefit in three to six months to retain the client belief they are going in the right direction. Each project is different and some longer than others but there should be early signs of it being the right direction.

Two points
1) We were Champions needing players being replaced and didn't need a major overhaul as SAF had to do
2) We have seen no such signs of benefit

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Obvious you just miss the whole thing if you think we were just fine and did not need an overhaul Struggling to get through group stages of Europe the last few years should have been enough warning for a club with 700 million fans and 3rd highest turnover in football, But hey we were just fine.

3 to 6 months really, maybe if you are selling kababs somewhere in kensington :)

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29 Mar 2014 00:26:53
I am hoping we bring in at least one winger this summer and don't focus solely on CM and the back four. We need at least one new winger who has pace and can beat his man. I used to love the days where our wingers would beat their man and get inside the box move the ball around rather than crossing unecessarily early (Ashley Young *cough*) and running to the byline and delivering a low ball (Valencia). I know these crossing techniques CAN work but we are in dire need of that winger that is more imaginative and influential on the wing rather than the same old predictable rubbish we have. Valencia should be kept but Young and Nani need to be out that exit door as soon as that window opens. We need a Reus, Griezmann, Di Maria or an El Sharawaay. Thoughts?

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Joe the only problem with our wingers is the inconsistency.

Nani on his day is one of the most exciting wingers in the world to watch, yet mostly he is frustrating. Nani brings back memories of watching Lee Sharpe, a great player but was he really United standard? Adnan is equally exciting but only marginally more consistent yet has many more years ahead of him to improve this.

Young and Valencia are some of the hardest working wingers I have ever seen at United, but it s a shame that offensively they are very one dimensional.

Beckham was one of the most unimaginative wingers I have ever seen yet his ability to cross the ball was second to none, if Young had half his ability crossing the ball he wouldn't be chastised anywhere near as much.

Valencia, like Kanchelskis, was one of the best at beating his man but has always struggled at what to do next. Now he has lost a yard of pace he looks so out of depth at United. Yet is still the best of what we have.

A few wide men wouldn't be a bad set of additions to our squad to replace some we currently have. However with the potential change in formation and style I feel with the right CM/CAM purchases we won't need any, especially with Zaha coming back and Adnans contiued development.

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The crossing from our wingers at united is horrendous at the minute, ashley young one time set piece expert for villa now has a competition with himself every time he plays to see how far he can over hit crosses by, nani at the ripe old age of 27 still can't manage to beat the first man with a corner kick, antonio valencia who some pundits claim is a good crosser never fails to play the ball behind everybody and usually at waist hight aswell so nobody can do a thing with it, give him his due though that low drilled cross at 100 mph comes off at least once in 100 attempts so that's progress. only one who can cross is januzaj but his future isn't out wide I wouldn't think. I was watching a few old matches the other day as it goes and watching david beckham in his pomp putting balls not just in the danger area but right on the money more often than not makes it even more painfull to watch this current crop at the moment.

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Joe r u 4 real? r cm issues is the cause 4 most of r problems ie slow build up play and givin opposition time and possession to hurt r shakey defence

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We need 2 wingers to be honest. No one ever get past his man on the left and we rarely get behind the right backs of any team. On the right Valencia has pace but is the worst crosser of the ball and has no left foot. All in all 2 wingers in the next 2 windows I would think.

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We may already have our wingers for the future in Janusaj and Zaha, and it's a shame we didn't get to see more of them. I have to agree that the crop of wingers we have now are very inconsistent. Young, IMO, was never good enough and Valencia didn't really improve as much as we'd all hoped, but in his defence, he works as hard as anyone!
References to Kanchelskis and Sharpe are spot on, great one day, and hopeless the next, but in the 68 European cup final, our best player was Johnny Aston, another winger that rarely hit the heights expected.
Hopefully, with Janusaj and Zaha, and more pitch time for Powell, we have a nucleus of young players that deserve to be given a chance. Maybe then, we can concentrate on getting some experienced players in positions of need, defence and CM, and even a striker maybe?

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29 Mar 2014 00:22:01
"If Sir Alex was here it would be difficult for him as well.

It could have been the case no matter what this season, but it has been so un-Man United, which is why we have to look to continue a policy of building, improving, getting better and that's what we'll try and do."

I think Moyes knows his time is up.

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If Moyes keeps telling himself this, he may just end up believing it.

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